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Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Nobody: 6:43pm On Oct 25, 2009
These question is not meant to belittle the personality of st Paul of tarsus nor his tremendous contribution to christianity.

I just want people to clear the air on the meaning of the word apostle if it can be applied to people outside the twelve chosen by Jesus.
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Nobody: 7:10pm On Oct 25, 2009
My guy i like ur inquest.Paul was an apostle&even d greatest of them all.It only that john hav a little edge over paul becos john wrote revelations.Paul is d greatest.paul is d spreader of d gospel&we are called christians becos of paul's effort.Non of d 12 did what paul did.He established christian dom.Read carefully pls i beg u Romans 1 vs 1-5 and 1corinthians 15 vs 1- end,u'll see what i mean.He wrote larger part of d new testament.Jesus appointed paul personally
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by KunleOshob(m): 8:55am On Oct 26, 2009
Apostle Paul was personally commisioned by Jesus to be an Apostle and having read all of his epistles i remain convinced that he was indeed genuinely divinely inspired. His story is simply awesome and it is as a result of Apostle Paul's works that most of the gentiles[us] received the gospel.
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Nezan(m): 1:20pm On Oct 26, 2009
Do you forget that it was largely as a result of Paul's effort that Christians came to be persecuted and hated so much by the Roman empire? muslims all hate Paul today because he did not allow God's truth as preached by Jesus to be forgotten, atheists now accuse Paul of creating Christianity simply because he did not allow this Gospel to be forgotten, I wish to appreciate the Holy Spirit for the great work he did in the life of brother Paul.

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Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by kolaxy(m): 2:36am On Oct 27, 2009
Do you forget that it was largely as a result of Paul's effort that Christians came to be persecuted and hated so much by the Roman empire? muslims all hate Paul today because he did not allow God's truth as preached by Jesus to be forgotten, atheists now accuse Paul of creating Christianity simply because he did not allow this Gospel to be forgotten, I wish to appreciate the Holy Spirit for the great work he did in the life of brother Paul.

Thanks wink
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Abuzola(m): 6:07am On Oct 27, 2009
Paul was a fraud, an arch enemy of jesus.


Paul declared to be a fool, see 2 corinthians 11:1 and 2 corinthian 11:17
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Nezan(m): 10:47am On Oct 27, 2009
abuzola; must you show the level of your stupidity on every thread?
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Abuzola(m): 11:10am On Oct 27, 2009
Paul is a fool, he admitted it in the book of corinthians


'Had We (ALLAH) intended to take a pastime (i.e wife or son), We could surely have taken it from Us, if We were going to do (that)' Quran 21:17
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by petres007(m): 6:31pm On Oct 27, 2009
Nezan:

Do you forget that it was largely as a result of Paul's effort that Christians came to be persecuted and hated so much by the Roman empire? muslims all hate Paul today because he did not allow God's truth as preached by Jesus to be forgotten, atheists now accuse Paul of creating Christianity simply because he did not allow this Gospel to be forgotten, I wish to appreciate the Holy Spirit for the great work he did in the life of brother Paul.

GBAM!!! I really couldn't have put it better myself! grin grin grin
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Recognise: 6:49pm On Oct 27, 2009
chukwudi44:


These question is not meant to belittle the personality of st Paul of tarsus nor his tremendous contribution to christianity.

I just want people to clear the air on the meaning of the word apostle if it can be applied to people outside the twelve chosen by Jesus.


@Post

1 Corinthians 1:1 (King James Version):


Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,


Galatians 1:1 (King James Version):


Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the deadwink


1 Timothy 1:1 (King James Version):


Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;


2 Timothy 1:1 (King James Version):


Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Recognise: 7:11pm On Oct 27, 2009
Abuzola:


Paul was a fraud, an arch enemy of Jesus.

Paul declared to be a fool, see 2 corinthians 11:1 and 2 corinthian 11:17


Need to borrow a leaf from Paul's humility

"Humility is not thinking less of oneself but rather thinking of one's self less"

2 Corinthians 12:10-12 Contemporary English Version (CEV):


10Yes, I am glad to be weak or insulted or mistreated or to have troubles and sufferings,

if it is for Christ. Because when I am weak, I am strong.

11I have been making a fool of myself.

But you forced me to do it, when you should have been speaking up for me.

I may be nothing at all, but I am as good as those super apostles.

12When I was with you, I was patient and worked all the powerful miracles and signs and wonders of a true apostle.

Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Abuzola(m): 8:53pm On Oct 27, 2009
Paul was a fool
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Nobody: 8:57pm On Oct 27, 2009
Abuzola:

Paul was a fool

mohammad was a paedophile. grin At least this one is a fact.

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Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by kolaxy(m): 4:44am On Oct 28, 2009
@Abuzola

Paul was a fraud, an arch enemy of jesus.

Paul declared to be a fool, see 2 corinthians 11:1 and 2 corinthian 11:17

Paul is a fool, he admitted it in the book of corinthians

Paul is a fool, he admitted it in the book of corinthians

Paul was a fool

@Davidlyan

mohammad was a paedophile. grin At least this one is a fact.


Abuzola, I know you are fighting for Allah but, take it easy man. Paul was a fool. Ok.He's a fraud.Fine. An arch enemy of Jesus Christ.Good, we got all your points. Thanks wink

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Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by olabowale(m): 5:56am On Oct 28, 2009
I am not a hater of paul, but a caller of attention to his statement versus what Jesus of the Bible said!

While Jesus said, "oh israel, your Lord and my Lord is but One God". What is the opinion of Paul to this, since we see that Trinity was developed after Jesus was lifted to heaven by his Able Lord?

Jesus escoriated a woman who simply called him good master or teacher, by saying "why call me good, when the Only One Who is Good is God in Heaven?" When Jesus said this he was yet unlifted, clearly part of mankind on earth. What did Paul say since we see that Jesus was less than good since he had run with the devil (devil deals with a person or keeps him under his influence when he is bad) and no one can be good with devil influencing him!

I have tons of these type of subtle reality between Jesus completely different from what Paul said about him, evidences that Paul did a snow job on Jesus.


Oh, Davidylan pedophiles are not always men who marry many grown women and just a single extremely younger wife! My Zaynab is extremely younger than me, and by Allah, I know many younger women in America who want me. On my wife, am I a pedophile? I dont know where a husband is termed a pedophile for sleeping with his wife? Adultery or fornication is more of a worse sin that pedophilia with one's wife will ever be. Wile the former is an illigal sex and popularly engaged in by non muslims, the later can t be taken as illigal or a bad act especially when the wife is not complaining!


Further, today, we see on American TV where even 12 or 13 years old are parents. Get real, davidylan.
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by theseeker2: 9:06am On Oct 28, 2009
paul was a very smart guy who rode on the Glory of jesus to earn cheap popularity. Jesus said to peter 'thou art cephas, And on you i will build my church". Then uncle paul comes out of the blues claiming to have an encounter with christ. A man whom he never met when he was alive. Just go through the differnt narrations of his encounter and  the contradictions and inconsitencies are obvious. He went ahead to write over half of new testament blatantly opposing the teachings of christ.
The guy is just a liar. Here is what he has to say for himself
"If i lie to the glory of God where do they still judge me a sinner"
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Abuzola(m): 9:36am On Oct 28, 2009
Indeed
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Nezan(m): 1:54pm On Oct 28, 2009
I am not a hater of paul, but a caller of attention to his statement versus what Jesus of the Bible said!
Why must you open your post with a lie? all muslims hate brother Paul.

While Jesus said, "oh israel, your Lord and my Lord is but One God". What is the opinion of Paul to this, since we see that Trinity was developed after Jesus was lifted to heaven by his Able Lord?
Why quote snippets of the Bible? Jesus claimed equality with the God the Father. "Jesus said to them, 'My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.' For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God" (John 5:17-18).
"Then they asked him, 'Where is your father?' 'You do not know me or my Father,' Jesus replied. 'If you knew me, you would know my Father also'" (John 8:19) "'I tell you the truth,' Jesus answered, 'before Abraham was born, I am!'" (John 8:58). "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).

Therefore the Jews certainly understood that Jesus was claiming to be God and they sought to kill Him because of it. "'What about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, "I am God's Son"? Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.' Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp." (John 10:36-39). This is just one incident where the Jewish authority sought to take Jesus or to stone Him and He escaped out of their hands because His time had not yet come (John 8:20).

So Paul had nothing to say about this than what Jesus himself claimed!
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by viaro: 2:02pm On Oct 28, 2009
the_seeker:

paul was a very smart guy who rode on the Glory of jesus to earn cheap popularity. Jesus said to peter 'thou art cephas, And on you i will build my church". Then uncle paul comes out of the blues claiming to have an encounter with christ. A man whom he never met when he was alive. Just go through the differnt narrations of his encounter and  the contradictions and inconsitencies are obvious. He went ahead to write over half of new testament blatantly opposing the teachings of christ.
The guy is just a liar. Here is what he has to say for himself
"If i lie to the glory of God where do they still judge me a sinner"

I usually don't like to engage in this kind of arguments; but I think it was really out of step with reason for you to make those inferences. The encounter that Paul had with Christ does not make him a liar - in just the same way, Muhammad and several others who claim to have known Christ are lying by the same reasoning, because they never met Christ when He was alive. And just think about it: does Muhammad not blatantly oppose the teachings of Christ? When people like you are on an NGO mission to castigate other people, you little realise the huge problems in your own house before barking the way you do.

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Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Nezan(m): 2:08pm On Oct 28, 2009
Jesus escoriated a woman who simply called him good master or teacher, by saying "why call me good, when the Only One Who is Good is God in Heaven?" When Jesus said this he was yet unlifted, clearly part of mankind on earth. What did Paul say since we see that Jesus was less than good since he had run with the devil (devil deals with a person or keeps him under his influence when he is bad) and no one can be good with devil influencing him!
Let us look what the Bible really says before we jump to conclusions too quickly. This event you are refering to is written in the Gospel as recorded by Mark, chapter 10:


13 People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." 16 And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them. 17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
18 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered.
"No one is good -- except God alone.

19 You know the commandments: `Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.'" 20 "Teacher," he declared, "all these I have kept since I was a boy." 21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." 22 At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

First we have to observe that this man is "praising Jesus highly" but then goes on to NOT obey what Jesus tells him he should do to inherit the eternal life that he desires.

Some quick remarks about the context. Jesus has just taught the people that to enter the kingdom of God (= get eternal life) we need to accept it as a gift, just like the children who have no inhibitions to accept gifts. Jesus tells us that we have to "unlearn" our adult behavior of "having to earn everything" because we cannot earn God's favor and grace, but have to accept it as a free gift of love. And the next we read is that this man comes up and asks "what MUST I DO to inherit eternal life". This shows how much this is entrenched in our nature and how hard it is to accept the pure grace of God. God's grace is without pre-conditions but not without consequences. Whoever has tasted of God's grace will strive to live a life which is pleasing to God.

We can only guess why exactly this man is praising Jesus so highly when he approaches him. Maybe he thought if he praises Jesus first, he might get a more favorable answer from him? One that is "easier to fulfill"? Isn't that a common approach of many people towards those who are (perceived to be) in authority on a certain issue? But Jesus looks through these smoke screens and goes right to the core problem. Jesus isn't swayed by this man's attempt to win his favor the wrong way. This doesn't mean that this man was a total hypocrite - just trying to manipulate a bit in his own favor. Jesus won't let him do so.

Jesus peels away the man's attempt to 'manipulate' in his favor. And he says to him, "don't use divine attributes for me IF you are not willing to follow what I am going to tell you". Jesus does then make this clear by showing him WHO [what] really is his 'god'. Jesus with this question "WHY do you call me good -- only God is good" and his exposure of the man's true heart makes clear that this statement has to be read as "Only call me "good" [meaning: (from) God], if you are prepared to fully submit to what I will tell you".

And though this does explain the statement, to fully understand the dynamic of this incident we have to look even more carefully. There is much more. No prophet has ever talked in this "presumptious" way.

"How can I get eternal life?" is the question. "Follow ME!" is the answer that Jesus gives.

Do you see what he is claiming? He does NOT say, these are the teachings that God has given me. Follow these rules and you will get to heaven. Neither did he just say, "follow God, submit to God", but he said "Follow ME!".

Jesus talks to this man as if it is in his hand to give eternal life. Follow Jesus and you have eternal life. And that by the way a constant topic in the teaching of Jesus. And it is completely against the tradition of Jewish teachers, which are approached and chosen by their students. But none of the disciples chose Jesus. It is always Jesus who comes up to them and "claims them" and commands them to follow him.
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Nezan(m): 2:17pm On Oct 28, 2009
I have tons of these type of subtle reality between Jesus completely different from what Paul said about him, evidences that Paul did a snow job on Jesus.
Subtle reality or distorted snippets of the Bible from a muslim mind?

Oh, Davidylan pedophiles are not always men who marry many grown women and just a single extremely younger wife! My Zaynab is extremely younger than me, and by Allah, I know many younger women in America who want me. On my wife, am I a pedophile? I dont know where a husband is termed a pedophile for sleeping with his wife? Adultery or fornication is more of a worse sin that pedophilia with one's wife will ever be. Wile the former is an illigal sex and popularly engaged in by non muslims, the later can t be taken as illigal or a bad act especially when the wife is not complaining!
Having sex with a 9 year-old baby is not the same as having sex with your fully developed wife. If not, marry your babies out at 6 years, that was the age mohammed married ayesha.

Further, today, we see on American TV where even 12 or 13 years old are parents. Get real, davidylan.
That is not the same as having sex with a 9 year-old baby.
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Nezan(m): 2:31pm On Oct 28, 2009
paul was a very smart guy who rode on the Glory of jesus to earn cheap popularity. Jesus said to peter 'thou art cephas, And on you i will build my church". Then uncle paul comes out of the blues claiming to have an encounter with christ. A man whom he never met when he was alive.
Such vituperations can only come from a muslim mind. The fact that Paul never met Jesus did not prevent Jesus from appearing to him. It is just the same as saying we Christians never saw Jesus but claim divine encounter with Him today . . . did you see the paedophillic, murderous, lying prophet of islam? he never saw God but claimed that god gave him divine inspiration.

You should be asking the contribution of brother Paul to the Church of Christ . . Just as Peter was appointed a minister to the Jews, Paul was ministering to the gentiles. I understand your frustrations . . all muslims wish forever that Jesus should not have used brother Paul in propagating the gospel so that this good news of salvation would have been lost, so that mohammed would have found it easier to spread his lies.

Just go through the differnt narrations of his encounter and the contradictions and inconsitencies are obvious.
Bring out the contradictions . . . such baseless claims. I recently tackled an atheist on this fallacy.


[quoteHe went ahead to write over half of new testament blatantly opposing the teachings of christ. [quote][/quote]I wonder when muslims have become experts in knowing the teachings of Christ. Who ever told you that Pauls teachings were contrary to Christ's teachings? My friend, stop believeiving everything you read. Let Christians complain about Jesus and Paul, definately not muslims . . . what do you think?
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Horus(m): 7:41pm On Oct 28, 2009
let me briefly address another false teaching of Paul that the Christians like very much. It's the false doctrine of salvation by faith alone. This false doctrine claims that you'll live eternal life in 'heaven' with Jesus if you only accept that he died for all your sins. You don't have to do anything else. Just believe that, and you're free and clear to fly all the way to 'heaven'. It doesn't matter if you were a murderer or rapist, a child molester, a slaver or a genocidal maniac. All you have to do just before you die, is to say, "Jesus, I accept you as the son of God who died for all my sins", and off to heaven you go. This doctrine is the chief cause of all the evil that Christian white men and women have committed against black people, especially the twin evils of slavery and colonialism. They committed unspeakable crimes against our people, knowing fully well that they were sinning, and at the same time planning to accept Jesus as their 'savior' just before they died as a way to buy their ticket into heaven. This doctrine is nothing less than a license to commit crimes. It tells them they can commit every kind of despicable act and sin, even as Christian priests continue to sexually molest young boys, as long as they repent just before they die and believe that Jesus already took all their sins away when he died 2,000 years ago. So blatant is their attitude about child molestation that these priests have named their place of living and molestation as a 'seminary' and 'rectory', alluding unashamedly to the rectum and the depositing of their semen.
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Nobody: 7:44pm On Oct 28, 2009
Horus:

let me briefly address another false teaching of Paul that the Christians like very much. It's the false doctrine of salvation by faith alone. This false doctrine claims that you'll live eternal life in 'heaven' with Jesus if you only accept that he died for all your sins. You don't have to do anything else. Just believe that, and you're free and clear to fly all the way to 'heaven'. It doesn't matter if you were a murderer or rapist, a child molester, a slaver or a genocidal maniac. All you have to do just before you die, is to say, "Jesus, I accept you as the son of God who died for all my sins", and off to heaven you go. This doctrine is the chief cause of all the evil that Christian white men and women have committed against black people, especially the twin evils of slavery and colonialism. They committed unspeakable crimes against our people, knowing fully well that they were sinning, and at the same time planning to accept Jesus as their 'savior' just before they died as a way to buy their ticket into heaven. [size=18pt]This doctrine is nothing less than a license to commit crimes. It tells them they can commit every kind of despicable act and sin,[/size] even as Christian priests continue to sexually molest young boys, as long as they repent just before they die and believe that Jesus already took all their sins away when he died 2,000 years ago. So blatant is their attitude about child molestation that these priests have named their place of living and molestation as a 'seminary' and 'rectory', alluding unashamedly to the rectum and the depositing of their semen.


[size=14pt]Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.[/size]

You can only look on in awe and disbelief at the deluded rants of those who are candidates of hell and desperate to drag others along with them.
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by theseeker2: 10:27pm On Oct 28, 2009
the reason i like Nezan is that he knows how to present a stupid argument with so much dignity that one is tempted to take him seriosly. He has so much enslaved himself to the dogma of xtianity that he conjures the most ludicrous explanations to escape obvious facts.
You have the right to post whatever u want but i know your conscience cannot deny the truth.
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Abuzola(m): 10:28pm On Oct 28, 2009
Don't mind them, paul was a fool like he already admitted his insanity in the book of corinthians
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by kolaxy(m): 1:00am On Oct 29, 2009
@ Nezan

Do you see what he is claiming? He does NOT say, these are the teachings that God has given me. Follow these rules and you will get to heaven. Neither did he just say, "follow God, submit to God", but he said "Follow ME!".


John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

God bless you, wink
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by theseeker2: 9:59am On Oct 29, 2009
Kolaxy, dont you get it!
He was the way not the destination
just as moses was the way and mohammed[b] is[/b] the way
the common denomenator is that God is the destination
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Nezan(m): 12:02pm On Oct 29, 2009
the reason i like Nezan is that he knows how to present a stupid argument with so much dignity that one is tempted to take him seriosly.
I dont blame you, islam has so much enslaved your reasoning that every argument that is not pro-islam is stupid to you. Free yourself and accept the truth!

He has so much enslaved himself to the dogma of xtianity that he conjures the most ludicrous explanations to escape obvious facts.
We Christians are not enslaved to Christianity, we open up our mind to logical arguments unlike muslims who cannot condone any counter view. Imagine your muslim mods editing my posts whereby they carefully removed posts I trounced olabowale in argument. You people are so dogmatic that anything that is not pro-islam is haram!

You have the right to post whatever u want but i know your conscience cannot deny the truth.
I have a conscience yes! but my conscience will worry me if I fail to let muslims understand that the way to salvation is only through JESUS!
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by Nezan(m): 12:07pm On Oct 29, 2009
He was the way not the destination
just as moses was the way and mohammed is the way

Moses NEVER claimed in the Torah to be the way to the Father.

Mohammed NEVER claimed in the koran to be the way either!

Jesus was the only person who claimed to be the way to the Father, because He is one with the Father. No need pulling wool over anybody's eyes.
Re: Was Paul Actually An Apostle by petres007(m): 5:27pm On Oct 29, 2009
Nezan,

Can I have the link to the thread you're referring to here:

Nezan:

I recently tackled an atheist on this fallacy.


Thanks!

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