I have so many catholic friends around me. And whenever i try to let them understand that d Bible is against bowing down to images according to Exodus 20:3—6, they tend to argue their way out and justify their action with what happened in Numbers 21:8—9.

ojobolinda:
I have so many catholic friends around me. And whenever i try to let them understand that d Bible is against bowing down to images according to Exodus 20:3—6, they tend to argue their way out and justify their action with what happened in Numbers 21:8—9.

have u ever thought about it and ask urself if they have a point? The bible says do not kill then it goes futher and permits and even commands some kills, so today we interprete those verses as do not murder. The bible also say do not make images and goes futher to permit and command certain images, are u sure d correct interpretation of that passage isnt do not make any images to worship gods or idol?

ojobolinda:
I have so many catholic friends around me. And whenever i try to let them understand that d Bible is against bowing down to images according to Exodus 20:3—6, they tend to argue their way out and justify their action with what happened in Numbers 21:8—9.

Jesus already explained why God gave them that similitude in John 3:14. Hence, it's not an allowance for us to bow before images today (even real angels rejected that).

ojobolinda:
I have so many catholic friends around me. And whenever i try to let them understand that d Bible is against bowing down to images according to Exodus 20:3—6, they tend to argue their way out and justify their action with what happened in Numbers 21:8—9.

Did they worship or bow to the brazen serpent?
see ^ for more clarity.

sonofthunder:

Did they worship or bow to the brazen serpent?
see ^ for more clarity.

Excellent input. In fact, consider this:
He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.
2 Kings 18:4

It served just one purpose and was to be discarded. Note that the Serpent was made at God's command for a one-off use with a Substance in mind.

Scholar8200:
Excellent input. In fact, consider this:
He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.
2 Kings 18:4
It served just one purpose and was to be discarded. Note that the Serpent was made at God's command for a one-off use with a Substance in mind.

Wow, thanks for dat scripture.

ojobolinda:
Wow, thanks for dat scripture.

We thank God.

Scholar8200:
Excellent input. In fact, consider this:
He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.
2 Kings 18:4

It served just one purpose and was to be discarded. Note that the Serpent was made at God's command for a one-off use with a Substance in mind.

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up" - John 3:14. Why do people still worship Jesus, if he came to serve just one purpose, and to be discarded after. Has Christianity not missed it somewhere?

pr0blem:


"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up" - John 3:14. Why do people still worship Jesus, if he came to serve just one purpose, and to be discarded after. Has Christianity not missed it somewhere?

Rather you missed my point. The serpent lifted up is the one that served a one-off purpose (as John 3:14 shows) , NOT Jesus! Where were the Israelites asked to depend on it after that time? That's the meaning of a one-off usage.

Scholar8200:
Rather you missed my point. The serpent lifted up is the one that served a one-off purpose (as John 3:14 shows) , NOT Jesus! Where were the Israelites asked to depend on it after that time? That's the meaning of a one-off usage.

You're not listening to yourself. The serpent as mentioned by Jesus himself is a shadow of himself. Moses (shadow of God) put up the Serpent (Jesus) for the people, for a one-off usage. That passage you brought up in first kings detailed how the Children of Israel still burned incense to the brasen serpent (just as Christians still worship Jesus today). But the whole show was for a one-off cause, as you mentioned.

Did Paul not say "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more" [2 Cor 5:16]. Christ in the flesh (Jesus of Nazareth) was for a one-off cause (the Cross). Which should thus be discarded after the show, isn't it? - That's my question.

pr0blem:


You're not listening to yourself. The serpent as mentioned by Jesus himself is a shadow of himself. Moses (shadow of God) put up the Serpent (Jesus) for the people, for a one-off usage. That passage you brought up in first kings detailed how the Children of Israel still burned incense to the brasen serpent

Was there any command that such should be done for deliverance or any reason afterwards?

Did Paul not say "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more" [2 Cor 5:16]. Christ in the flesh (Jesus of Nazareth) was for a one-off cause (the Cross). Which should thus be discarded after the show, isn't it? - That's my question.

What was the purpose of the Cross? Are people still in need of salvation today? What is the Divinely commanded means of salvation today?

It is this Good News that saves you if you continue to believe the message [/b]I told you—unless, of course, you believed something that was never true in the first place.

3 I passed on to you what was most important and what had also been passed on to me. [b]Christ died for our sins, just as the Scriptures said. 4 He was buried, and he was raised from the dead on the third day, just as the Scriptures said
1 Corinth 15:2-4

Furthermore:
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[g] Romans 10:13

Lastly:

Therefore he is able, once and forever, to save[e] those who come to God through him.
Hebrews 7:25a

Is HE to be discarded?No! When we believe the Gospel and express that faith/belief by calling on Him(that rose up) in Prayer (as the Only Saviour) we will be saved.

Scholar8200

The Salvation of Jesus Christ is what mankind realizes. When mankind realized it was not the day Jesus Christ was saved. And mankind realizes Jesus isn't an example for them but an example of them. Thus, there's nothing new happening, only that experience is changed at the realization of this Truth (the salvation of Jesus Christ).

The Salvation of Jesus Christ is a message to be understood, not one that should be turned into an image to be worshipped. For which the brazen serpent is merely a type. Why do you think it had to do with "Vision" and "Healing/Restoration"?

You say the type was discarded because there were no commands, but you think there were commands given for the Reality of that type? Check again. Rom 10:3 is not a command. Heb 7:25 is a suggestive conclusion, that even mentioned a "once" (one-off thing) that has a forever effect.

pr0blem:
Scholar8200

The Salvation of Jesus Christ is what mankind realizes. When mankind realized it was not the day Jesus Christ was saved. And mankind realizes Jesus isn't an example for them but an example of them. Thus, there's nothing new happening, only that experience is changed at the realization of this Truth (the salvation of Jesus Christ).

The Salvation of Jesus Christ is a message to be understood, not one that should be turned into an image to be worshipped. For which the brazen serpent is merely a type. Why do you think it had to do with "Vision" and "Healing/Restoration"?

You say the type was discarded because there were no commands, but you think there were commands given for the Reality of that type? Check again. Rom 10:3 is not a command. Heb 7:25 is a suggestive conclusion, that even mentioned a "once" (one-off thing) that has a forever effect.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16 Do we still need to believe on Him today? Is there any other means/Way apart from Him?

The type was to be discarded but not the Substance!(before you refute answer those ^^^)

Scholar8200:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16 Do we still need to believe on Him today? Is there any other means/Way apart from Him?

The type was to be discarded but not the Substance!(before you refute answer those ^^^)

At some point, you'll realize that "to believe" doesn't mean what Christians have taken it to mean today. And at your realization of that truth, you'll understand that "to believe" doesn't cause a changed that hadn't already happened.

Sorry my reply is late. I haven't been online for a while.

There is ZERO EVIDENCE that "God" did or said anything to anybody called Moses.

Rossikk:
There is ZERO EVIDENCE that "God" did or said anything to anybody called Moses.

Doesn't mean we should erase the possibility of it's happening also. It's just safe to be open-minded. "Whether or not it happened, how has the story helped humanity?" should be the general consideration of such matters.

because Yahweh is actually the snake God damballah and the serpent is his theme

lepasharon:
because Yahweh is actually the snake God damballah and the serpent is his theme

Yahweh God said to the serpent,
"¹⁴Because you have done this, you are cursed above all livestock, and above every animal of the field.
On your belly you shall go, and you shall eat dust all the days of your life.
¹⁷Then to Adam He said,
"Because you have listened to the voice of your wife,
and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it';
Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.
- Genesis 3:14, 17

And the great dragon was hurled down--the ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world.
He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
- Revelation 12:9

You're woefully wrong, completely off target & deceived to believe that YHWH is the serpent god dambAllah, when Revelation 12:9 states otherwise