The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) - Religion (6) - Nairaland
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| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by Peacefullove: 7:22pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
Genesis2000: according to the Christian bible , only those who do the will of God lives forever , do you agree? emphasis on # live forever "#. either torment or not is irrelevant here. the basic point is he lives forever which is only for those who do the will of God . is God a liar ? is Satan doing the will of God to deserve living forever. ? if Satan live forever , it means he has everlasting life . a Gift from God through Jesus Christ . then If its through Jesus Christ , Satan must have use faith in Jesus Christ then to get the gift  ( john 3:16 ) , do u agree with the bible on this points ? 1 Like |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by analice107: 8:17pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
Wilgrea7:Yes we (everyone of us) attains immortality after death, and Yes, death is a gate way to immortality, as no man in this flesh shall enter or inherit the kingdom of God. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Corinthians:15:50 There body we use in other to function in this realm is a different body we shall have wen we die out of here There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 1 Corinthians:15:40 Terrestrial body is this one am typing with, Celestial body is Spiritual and i shall attain it when i die. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 1 Corinthians:15:42 What dies corruption here means? lets see another translation. Amplified Bible 1 Corinthians 15:53-54 For this perishable [part of us] must put on the imperishable [nature], and this mortal [part of us, this nature that is capable of dying] must put on immortality (freedom from death). And when this perishable puts on the imperishable and this that was capable of dying puts on freedom from death, then shall be fulfilled the Scripture that says, Death is swallowed up (utterly vanquished forever) in and unto victory. Corruption means anything which can die and decay. Wen we die out of this flesh, we shall no longer die anymore, we will become spiritual beings and spirits do not die. Bros, Christ came to give us eternal life. but not this very life we are living here. Christ came to restore the life which Adam lost in Eden. let me take you on a short ride. When Bible says, God created us in His image and likeness, what comes to your mind? is it the image of a human being like Obama or Buhari? What and who does the Bible say God is? The Master said, God is a SPIRIT and those... So if God is a Spirit and He created man in his image, what image is man? Now lets see the attributes of a Spirit. 1. Its immortal 2. its infinite (timeless) 3. its invincible (indestructible) 5. its invisible So if God who is a spirit, created man in his image, man will have the above attributes. what does that tell you? What this means is that, the real man is invisible. You Can't see him. He lives within the bones which is kneaded with flesh and held together by muscles, and skin, called the Terrestrial body. Now, you will have a problem with this if you do not realize that God created man first (Spirit) before forming the clay with which he housed Man IN. question! why was there need for Adam to have a body? It was necessary, to enable Adam function in the Material world which was created for him, but at the same time connect with his spiritual dimension. Now, the Bible says, before Adam fell, God usually came down to fellowship with him, in what form and manner was this fellowship taking place? was it physical and visible? No. God who is a Spirit, connected with the spiritual dimension of Man and they enjoyed their fellowship. But when Sin came in, the connection broke. Adams Spiritual dimension died and he was severed from God. Now, You talked about the eternal life Jesus preached, There's indeed eternal life both for the saved and for the sinners who dies in sin. Where you spend it is what Christ is concerned about and that is why He came. The spiritual dimension of Adam, the part of him which died in Eden, is the part of him which enters the kingdom of God. If you do not have it, you can not see or enter into the Kingdom of God. That is the Life that Christ came to restore. If you die without that life being restored to you, you wont have access into Gods Kingdom, you'd be left out in the darkness. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew:25:30 In the Spiritual realm, there's no middle ground. You must belong somewhere. You either go in or be left out, but where is out? Wen we stand before the King who will no longer be this gentile Lamb but a Lion then we will know that we wasted our chance taking his gentility for granted. A Lion does not smile, a Lion is stern. Hellfire was not created for man, any man who ends in hell choose it. |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by Nobody: 8:37pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
You are welcome. St. Augustine of Hippo said "I believe, in order to understand; and I understand, the better to believe." I would have been a part of this argument trying to teach what my church teaches - even that I don't know the details of - or what I know from the best of my knowledge but it doesn't make it right, I only think and believe it is right. From what I read here, you are not trying to mislead people, you only challenge them based on your understanding. In court, this is typical of 'your word against mine' because everyone is fixated on their opinions (beliefs) especially when it concerns eternal consequences in the life to come thus going back and forth with ending statements like 'let's wait till we die.' For me, inclined to the old school, my curiosity challenged my faith, I was curious about the earliest gospel, the gospel of St Mark and I found he finished writing it in Alexandria Egypt in which he later became a bishop of the church there. But how come no one ever told me that? Well, it's not in the Bible so it's not important. Then I found out about the Orthodox church, as it is known today, which has the 118th successor of St Mark. Similar to the Roman Catholics that have a Pope today that can be traced right to the first bishop, St Peter, the apostle of Jesus Christ. A point to note is that I am interested in Jesus Christ, to follow Him to worship Him as the people we read about in the Bible, not the history and scandals of the christianity or Catholic church of which currently the pentecostals are champions of scandals. Also, what is interesting is that these churches keep documents of early Saints that have even become accessible online. These guys were real people  not some untraceable mythical characters and in the church catechisms they refer to their explanations about Scripture on many of the questions many pentecostals spend time arguing over, to the interpretation and teachings of the early Saints and apostles. How relieving it is to follow the teaching of an apostle who knew Peter that followed Christ, at least one won't say that's how I understand it so I believe in God but not the Trinity or I believe in Jehovah but not Jesus Christ as God and holy spirit is active force, or Jesus is the Father the Son and the HolySpirit manifest in different forms...(where did all these teachings come from? and if you search it always leads to a single person) thereby subjecting oneself to judgement for teaching heresy.The Vatican being very valuable because of the wealth of documents secured in the St Peter's Basillica. When you know all these reading the gospels and epistles begin to open a whole new meaning and you naturally cease arguing with other christians about what the Bible says about modern undocumented inventions that justify greed and quest for control by pastors. When you see things like 'the bishop should be a man married to one wife, not a lover of money, or wine, a man married to one wife' the image changes from a private jet flying preacher on suit to a priest in cassock. The letters of the Epistles were actual letters to people in churches and sometimes it was all they had because there were christians even before the Bible was brought together as a canon. The canon was declared complete by people, the books that became the bible were translated even into latin by people, they included and rejected books as they were guided by the Holy Spirit. There were people who the Church deemed as acceptable to write Scripture and be a part of that process. The Church was the authority not the Bible. The bible, not even as it is known today among protestant circles, came much later and it didn't drop from the clouds. I wont derail the topic anymore. My apologies. Read the 'Early Church Fathers', Didache, and church history, the reformation too. Then pentecostalism. Then read what the churches like the Roman Catholic and the Orthodox churches believe these are more elaborate about their doctrines and origin of them than the other rest of christianity least of all pentecostals. Too much to read, then take my word for it or else you will continue arguing rather than growing in faith when you remain a pentecostal. Did you know that the RCC verify miraculous claims that happens within their churches before the authenticate it as one? May not be very stringent but it means false claims or magic or new age mystical practices (which they have documented positions about those) can be reported to the Vatican and have grave consequences. I knew from a book I read that they investigate claims of demonic activity and possession in order to exhaust all logical and medical explanation to the contrary before they intervene spiritually. 'People fear what they don't understand, hate what they can't conquer' Nas  This is not an ad for catholicism or orthodoxy but I doubt any believer can know the history of christianity, the church and the Bible and still remain a pentecostal if one is not making a living out of it. Even at that, it becomes a daily fight of conscience any believer will have. It is usually reformed and pentecostal preachers who know the Bible and love God so much that when they start reading then they face undeniable truth, of course with prayers, that make them convert to old religion. New christians who weren't born into old religion naturally get uncomfortable with rituals so they steer clear. They prefer entertainment christianity that suits the world they are accustomed to. Wilgrea7: 1 Like |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by Wilgrea7(m): 8:38pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
analice107: lemme understand something... if we arw given immortality when we die then why are we being raised up?.. the 1 Corinthians u quoted... Paul was talking about the righteous who will be raised. read down you will see when he said “death is swallowed up in victory" he also said that the sting of death is sin.. only the righteous can receive the immortality.. the immortality and the long life and all the attributes you mentioned... are what the righteous inherit on the last day yes God did create adam in his image and likeness... adam fell... we didn't have immortality... if we did then God wouldn't have pursued adam to prevent him eating from the tree of life. remember... by one man(adam) we were doomed and by one man(Jesus) we were saved.. those promises of immortality and eternal life . man can only have those attributes through Jesus. paul also said somewhere that we will be like angels... but that promise also was to those in Christ.. that's why Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. the only person possessing true immortality is God.. its written in the scripture... so we as humans are not immortal... neither are our souls.. eternal life is only for believers.. God didn't want adam to eat from the tree of life so that he wouldn't be immortal at that time... but Christ promised us that whoever keeps his commandments.. he will give him to eat of the tree of life... we really don't have immortality.. only God can give us because only him is truly immortal u said God created man's spirit before the clay... i tend to disagree the bible said and God breathed into man and he became a living soul.. it was the breath of God on the clay that made man a living soul. 1 Like |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by raphieMontella: 8:47pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
TheSixthSense:i swear..i just need three days inside the vatican chambers and the roman archives...knowledge would be akin to my name... The rcc has so much no one knows about...i fear that church... |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by Peacefullove: 9:13pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
can you provide where in the christian bible it says Adam first exist as a spirit BEFORE God create him ? secondly,does it mean God lied when he said YOU are dust . if actually Adam is a spirit ? 1 Like |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by Peacefullove: 9:17pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
Peacefullove: @ analice107 |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by Nobody: 9:23pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
More than 150,000 people die every day. That’s 4.5 million each month, a number that exceeds the population of Los Angeles. Add to that the number of dead throughout human history—it’s a staggering figure. Tragically, many of those people died without knowing Christ. What fate awaits them? Do they really Rest In Peace, or do they find a different reality beyond the grave? Sadly, those who reject God and His way of salvation don’t find rest when they die. They enter into eternal hell where there’s no peace for the wicked. That’s a grim, terrible reality, and it’s what the Bible teaches. The real conflict over the biblical doctrine of hell is essentially an issue of authority. What the Bible affirms about hell forces you to believe or disbelieve, to accept or reject. It’s back to the same question that confronts everyone: Do you believe the Bible, or do you not? At the end of the day, the answer determines the fate of every person who ever lived. The Bible is the only authority source that tells the truth about death, hell, and eternity. The Bible has the final word on that subject—and on every subject—because it is a revealed book. It has come from God, from the spiritual realm, and has the answers about where all of us will spend eternity one day. So, what does the Bible teach about hell? Hell Is Far from legend, myth, metaphor, or allegory, the Bible presents hell as a real place where wicked people suffer the wrath of God. Consider these vivid portraits of hell from three different New Testament writers: Then the King will say to those on His left, “Depart from me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels.” . . . These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. (Matthew 25:41, 46) If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. (Mark 9:43) And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:15) Scripture presents a terrifyingly clear case for a literal hell. It’s a place where God punishes unbelievers for all eternity. Contrary to what some so-called evangelicals are teaching, hell is not a state of mind or a hard life on this earth. Your state of mind can change; your circumstances can improve. Hell never changes, never improves. Hell is not chastisement; it’s everlasting, insufferable punishment at the hands of an angry God. According to the revelation Jesus gave to the apostle John, the fate of every unbeliever is to, …drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger. And he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. They have no rest day and night. (Revelation 14:10-11) Jesus and Hell Though every New Testament author acknowledges the doctrine of hell, Jesus has the most to say about it. The existence of hell wasn’t something He questioned, debated, or defended, and He certainly didn’t apologize for it. He assumed the reality of hell just as much as He did the resurrection (John 5:28-29). Jesus viewed hell as a real place, a certainty, and so should you. in fact, He’s the model on how you should think about hell. When Jesus talked about hell, His purpose was always to warn, not to raise questions or plant doubts. Consider the graphic words He used to portray hell—they clearly aren’t meant to provide comfort, but to frighten. According to Jesus, hell is a place of outer darkness (Matthew 22:13) where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 8:12). Hell is a fiery furnace (Matthew 13:42, 50) of unquenchable fires (Mark 9:48-49). Hell is a place of spiritual and bodily destruction (Matthew 10:28) where there are endless torments (Luke 16:23-24). Hell is most certainly a place, a horrific place where agonizing conditions exist. No Way Out Have you ever been stuck somewhere in a situation beyond your control—an airplane, an elevator, a jail cell? In times like those we usually have a reasonable hope of rescue or escape. Remember the mine that collapsed in Chile? Thirty-three miners were trapped thousands of feet below ground. It took sixty-nine days, but all of them were rescued from their underground tomb. We love stories like that—against unthinkable odds, finding a surprise exit route or the execution of a successful rescue in the eleventh hour. But that’s not possible when it comes to hell. God built the prison of hell, and there are no doors or windows. God is hell’s jailer, and there is no key. There are no escape routes, and no one is powerful enough to rescue anyone out of His hand. That’s why Jesus said, “Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell” (Matthew 10:28). Hell offers no means of escape, rescue, or relief—no way out, ever. The occupants of hell are sealed in their damnation (Revelation 22:11). Friends and family can’t help; God won’t help. The time for mercy has passed. As one who knows exactly what awaits the wicked, Jesus told the story of a rich man who was tormented in hell: And the rich man cried out and said, “Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.” But Abraham said, “Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.” (Luke 16:24-26) Dante seemed to understand that message. His imaginary inscription over hell’s entrance, “Abandon hope, all ye who enter here,” rightly pictured hell as a place where mercy and hope are left at the door. But some reject that view, believing against Scripture’s testimony that God gives people a second chance. Some still say there’s a postmortem opportunity to believe the gospel, repent, and be saved. That may sound appealing (especially to sinners), but it doesn’t come from the Bible. Others hold to a form of universalism that holds out the false hope that hell is not the final destination for sinners. In their view, God’s redeeming work doesn’t stop at death. God will eventually reconcile every creature to Himself—yes, even those in hell. As British evangelist John Blanchard put it, All the ways to hell are one-way streets. The idea that those who go there will eventually be released and join the rest of humanity in heaven has not a shred of biblical evidence to support it. Children are sometimes told fictional adventure stories with the delightful ending: “And they all lived happily ever after.” We call that kind of story a fairy tale. Universalism is exactly that. (John Blanchard, “Whatever Happened to Hell?”) In the face of such clear, undeniable evidence about hell from the pages of Scripture, it seems absurd that professed evangelicals would challenge the existence, nature, or eternality of hell. But we shouldn’t be surprised. Satan continues his efforts to make sin less offensive, heaven less appealing, hell less horrific, and the gospel less urgent. Don’t be ignorant of Satan’s devices. The Word of God leaves no doubt about the existence or nature of hell. With clarity and authority, God has told us everything we need to know about hell, and how to avoid it through the merits of Christ. |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by Nobody: 9:23pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
The Rich Man and Lazarus Luke 16:19-31 My Orthodox study bible commentary reads verbatim: 16:22 Abraham's bosom means heaven. Abraham is mentioned among all the righteous because, in stark contrast to the rich man, Abraham showed hospitality to strangers (Gn 18:1 - 8 ). The rich man...was buried. The Fathers see this as illustrating the state of his merciless soul, buried by the pleasures of the flesh. He was already buried in life by 'couches, rugs, furnishings, sweet oils, perfumes, titles of wine, varieties of food, and flatterers' (JohnChr). That the rich man remains unnamed indicates that he is ultimately forgotten (See Ps 9:6) 16:24-26 The rich man's appeal to Abraham as a spiritual father is not rejected. Rather, Abraham accepts this role, calling the rich man son and showing himself to be compassionate even towards the most wretched of men. The great gulf/chasm is not a geographical divide, but the complete separation between virtue and wickedness, a separation that cannot be overcome after death. Note that torments have not changed the rich man's heart, as he still sees Lazarus as a servant existing for the sake of his own comfort. Finally, this account by Christ reveals the communion of the saints: a man, not even a believer, calls out from Hades and converses with Saint Abraham! 16:27-31 Some Fathers see this parable being set after the final judgement, citing the punishment and reward being received by the two men respectively. Others see this parable set at a time after death but before the second coming of Christ, as evidenced by the man interceding on behalf of his brothers who are still living. The torment he is experiencing would be but a foretaste of his final state. From this perspective, we learn that souls of the departed have awareness of and concern for the state of those still alive on earth (see Lk 9:30,31; 2Mc 15:12-16; Mt 2:18), but also that the intercessions of a wicked man are heard, but avail nothing (contrast Jam 5:16) ** JohnChr = St John Chrystostom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Chrysostom ** 2Mc = 2 Maccabees |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by TomHagen: 9:48pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
raphieMontella:You go read tire be that o. |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by Nobody: 9:56pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
This is a tract When A Sinner Goes To Hell. . . "....the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame." Luke 16:22-24. "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. . ." Matthew 25:41. "Enter ye in at the straight gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matthew 7:13-14. "But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 8:12. "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for the to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Mark 9:43-44. The subject of Hell isn't a very POPULAR subject, but it is, indeed, a very IMPORTANT subject. Jesus preached often about this horrible place for one basic reason: HE DOES NOT WANT YOU TO GO THERE! There are many who consider "hell fire" preaching to be cruel and unnecessary, but the Lord Jesus Christ thought it was very necessary to preach on Hell and WARN lost people of this horrible place. Friend, since you began reading this tract, many people have died and went to Hell forever, and many more will have gone before you've finished. I can assure you that they would all love to have a second chance. They would all love to be able to read this tract and receive Christ as their Savior, but it's too late for them. They'll be in Hell for eternity. What about YOU? As followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, it is our Christian duty to WARN people about the eternal torments of Hell. So we urge you to carefully consider these words of warning while you still have a chance, while God's invitation is still open to you. THE SPHERE OF HELL The sphere of Hell is a round, hollowed-out place in the Earth's core. Scientists say that the Earth's outer crust is less than twenty miles thick, and that beyond that point, there are rivers and lakes of FLAMING HOT LAVA, or, as the Bible calls it, a "lake of fire" (Rev. 20:15). So, this very moment your eternal soul may be less than twenty miles from the burning fires of Hell! Hell isn't in some distant dimension; Hell is UNDER YOUR FEET! The rebels in Numbers chapter 16 went DOWN into the pit. Moses wrote in Deuteronomy 32:22 about a fire in the LOWEST HELL. Amos 9:2 speaks of people trying to DIG down into Hell. So Hell is a REAL PLACE, and it's UNDER YOUR FEET RIGHT NOW, torturing millions of lost souls forever! Think about that! THE SUFFERING OF HELL If you go to Hell, you'll suffer. That's what Hell is for. Just as the rich man of Luke 16, you'll be TORMENTED IN FLAMES. A sinner closes his eyes in death, and the Devil has his soul to torment in Hell forever. You say, "God wouldn't allow such a thing to happen." Sure He will! God allows people to suffer all the time. God allowed Hitler to murder 6,000,000 Jews, did He not? God allowed Herod to kill the children under two years old, did He not (Matthew 2)? If God will allow innocent babies to be murdered, then why wouldn't He allow a Christ rejecting sinner to burn in Hell? Did God not allow Jesus Christ, an innocent and sinless man, to be beaten and murdered? If God will allow His only begotten Son to suffer and be murdered, then why should God save a sinner from Hell when he chooses not to trust Christ as Savior? Listen, friend, GOD WILL ALLOW YOU TO GO TO HELL AND BURN IF YOU ARE NOT BORN AGAIN. It happens all the time. The suffering of Hell is horrible. Not only is there physical suffering, but there is also a great deal of MENTAL suffering. You'll always remember your earthly life. You'll remember your family and your friends. You'll remember your spouse and your children. Just as the rich man in Luke 16, you'll remember it all! You'll also remember the chances that you had to be saved. You'll remember reading this paper, and you'll remember your thoughts and comments about this paper. In Hell, you will always remember the moment that you REJECTED Jesus Christ as your Savior. All sinners go to Hell, and they go there to suffer. THE SOUNDS OF HELL In Hell, there are certain sounds that you'll never hear. We take many sounds for granted today, but in Hell you'll miss them terribly. For instance, the beautiful sounds of nature will not be there. You can't hear the wind blowing gently through the tree tops in Hell, no flowing springs of water, no birds singing, and no spring showers. You won't hear any children laughing and playing in Hell, for there are no children in Hell. You won't hear anyone say, "I love you", because in Hell, there isn't any love. In Hell, you will hear people screaming for mercy twenty-four hours a day. It'll never stop! There will be no peace and quiet in Hell. Hell will be forever filled with roaring flames, boiling hot lava, and the horrible screams of billions of lost souls! You'll never escape the sounds of Hell. THE SIGHT OF HELL You'll think of the wonderful sights of God's creation, such as the beautiful sunsets, the rolling hills, and the tall snow-topped mountains, but you'll never see them again. The Lord Jesus described Hell as a place of outer darkness. Imagine being in a place where you could only see flames rolling in the dark. Imagine seeing someone's FACE in those flames! There are no smiling faces in Hell, only the faces of pain, agony and sorrow. You'll remember all of the pretty, smiling faces that you once knew, but you'll never see them again. You'll never see your children again. You'll never see your family again. In Hell, friend, you'll see nothing except weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth forever! THE SOCIETY OF HELL Hell comes suddenly. When King Belshazzar threw his drunken brawl in Daniel chapter five, he had no idea that he'd be in Hell before sunrise. Goliath had no idea that a small stone slung by a young shepherd boy would land his soul in Hell forever, but it did. Before his corpse was even cold, his soul was suffering the torments of Hell. Hell almost always takes its victims by sudden surprise, and YOU could be next. THE SHAME OF HELL What is the shame of Hell? Well, friend, the shame of Hell is the fact that, if you go there, you will eventually come to grips with one unforgettable truth: YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO GO! Imagine that! Imagine spending ETERNITY with that on your mind! Imagine being in Hell for a million years and then thinking, "I didn't have to come here! I could have received Christ! Oh, what a fool I was! If only I had not been so stubborn! If...if...if...!" That's the shame of Hell: going there when you DON'T HAVE TO GO! People accuse God of being unfair in sending sinners to Hell. Listen, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO! The decision is YOUR'S, not God's. God made His decision 2000 years ago when He gave His Only Begotten Son to die as a payment for your sins. If you go to Hell, you will go AGAINST God's will, because God wants you to REPENT and trust Christ to save you ( II Peter 3:9). How about it? Will you turn from your sins right now and trust Christ to save you? Remember, it's YOUR decision. THE SALVATION FROM HELL Isaiah 1:18 says, "Come now, let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." All men are sinners and need to be cleansed from sin (Rom. 3:23), and that cleansing can only come through the precious Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ (Rev. 1:5; Col. 1:14). Consider the words of the Apostle Paul: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Your only way to Heaven is through the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 10:13 says, "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:9 says, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Why not turn to Him right now? Turn from your sins! Claim His promises and trust Him to save you while there's still time. Tomorrow may be too late. |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by analice107: 10:08pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
Peacefullove: |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by analice107: 10:25pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
Peacefullove:Hahahahahahahaha. Yes i can provide all the verses. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis:1:27 Ask yourself, Which is the image which God created man in? Visible or invisible image? Is God Visible, is God material? Is He tangible, can you see and hold Him? If no, in which image did he create Adam? Answer that. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. Genesis:2:6 And the LORD God "formed" man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis:2:7 Note: When he created them, he created them Male and female and called them MAN, But when he FORMED, He formed only the Male man, until later did he take the female man (Eve)from the male man (Adam). When God FORMED the physical tangible visible Man, that form was lifeless until God breath his essence into man then that Form, 'man' became a living Soul. May this meat not be too tough for you to chew. 3 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by analice107: 10:29pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
Wilgrea7:U know what? am done. Believe what you want. Let's die and see |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by honourhim: 10:36pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
Wilgrea7: Oga stop whining biko. Anybody who does not buy into your lies is dogmatic. I dey hear . Again you are claiming what i did not say. Go through that reply i gavve you again so that you dont claim what i didnt say you are doing. You have failed to convince me on why people who died as sinners and are no more in existence will be raised again on the last day only to be put out of existence again. Some of them died hundreds and thousands of years ago in a very horrible manner and here they will now be raised up and be put out of existence again. Just that? Nah. If it is about wiping them out of existence then they wouldnt have been raised up again. If you say they are still existing then where are they? I know you dont believe in life after death so where are they existing? Again i ask- in your bedroom? And pls i ve NEVER been an atheist and will NEVER be. I ve told you to carry on with your sweet lies. Save yourself the stress you are going through to give your lies a semblance of truth. 1 Like |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by Wilgrea7(m): 10:43pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
honourhim: it seems i must have mistaken you with someone else on the atheist issue.. if u want to be more enlightened then tune in on my posts... peace |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by Wilgrea7(m): 10:49pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
There is one biblical book in particular that simply and clearly backs up all the evidence for literal everlasting destruction that we ’ ve amassed so far , the book of 2 Peter . 2 PETER 2 : 6 If he [ God ] condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly God is telling us right here precisely what the eternal fate of ungodly people will be : The utter destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is God’s example of what will ultimately happen to them. How exactly did God destroy these cities as an example? Why, by burning them to ashes . We know that this passage is referring to the second death because it states that ungodly people will experience a judgment similar to the incineration of Sodom and Gomorrah and the only time all the ungodly will experience such a fate is at the second death when God will “ destroy both soul and body ” in the lake of fire (Matthew 10 : 28 ). Jude 7 also speaks of this example of Sodom and Gomorrah JUDE 7 (KJV ) Even as Sodom and Gomorrah , and the cities about them in like manner , giving themselves over to fornication , and going after strange flesh , are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire . As you can see , the Bible clearly states here that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by “ eternal fire. ” Yet , how could this be since the fiery destruction of these cities has long since taken place ? This proves that the phrase “ eternal fire” refers to fiery destruction that lasts forever and not to eternal torture, as some teach because the fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah has long since gone out , but their destruction remains . As always , the Bible is clear if we simply allow it to interpret itself and resist the temptation to attach our own biased meanings to words and phrases . Continuing with the book of 2 Peter , 3 : 7 states , “By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire , being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. ” Verse 9 continues , “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise [ of a new heavens and new earth — verse 13 ] , as some understand slowness . He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. ” We already addressed verses 7 & 9 in Chapter One, but here’ s my point : 2 : 6 states that the ungodly will be burned “to ashes ,” 3 : 7 that they will suffer “destruction , ” and 3 : 9 that they will “perish . ” Peter keeps bringing up the issue of the second death yet only speaks of it in terms of incineration , destruction and death . He doesn ’ t say anything at all about suffering perpetually in varying degrees of conscious torture. If this perverse belief were true , wouldn ’ t this section of Scripture mention it somewhere since it’s specifically dealing with the subject of the second death , the eternal fate of ungodly people ? I think being tormented forever and ever is much too important of a detail to leave out , don ’t you? The obvious reason Peter doesn’ t mention it is because this teaching of eternal torture is not a biblical doctrine. It ’s a human -invented myth , a satanic lie (as will be shown in the next chapter) that has been perpetuated for centuries by the formidable force of religious tradition . Let ’s look at one other enlightening passage from the book of 2 Peter which contextually refers to ungodly people “who follow the corrupt desires of the sinful nature, ” as verse 10 states 2 Peter 2 : 12 b They are like brute beasts , creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed , and like beasts they too will perish . Peter is speaking by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit here and what he ’ s saying is obvious: “ Born” is referring to being born into this world ; “caught ” is referring to the soul being held in Hades (HAY- deez ), which takes place after physical decease, where it “awaits ” resurrection; and “ destroyed ” is referring to what will happen after the soul & body are resurrected wherein the person is judged and cast into the lake of fire. For verification of this , Revelation 20 : 13 states that “death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them” to be judged and “If anyone ’ s name was not found written in the book of life , he was thrown into the lake of fire ” (verse 15 ). NOTE: Whether one regards the state of the soul in Hades as conscious, sleeping or dead is not pertinent to the subject of eternal punishment , which is the subject of this study . This is obvious because Hades concerns the intermediate state of the soul between death and resurrection ; this is a temporary condition and therefore not relevant to our study on the eternal destiny of ungodly people . See Chapter Five ’s commentary on “the rich man and Lazarus ” and Appendix B Understanding Human Nature (particularly the final portions) for more biblical information on the nature of Hades. See Part II of this study , Sheol Know , for a thorough biblical examination of Hades. NOTE: Hades is the equivalent to the Hebrew S heol (sheh- OHL ) as a comparison of Acts 2 : 27 and Psalm 16 : 10 will verify ; the former quotes the latter , supplanting the Hebrew Sheol with the Greek Hades. Please notice that 2 Peter 2 : 12 plainly teaches, once again, that ungodly people will be destroyed in the lake of fire , not sadistically tortured endlessly . The Greek word translated as “destroyed ” here is phthora (fthor-AH ). Paul used this very same word to describe our present mortal , “perishable ” bodies in contrast to the immortal , imperishable bodies that believers will receive at their resurrection (1 Corinthians 15 : 42 ). This is yet another word that we can add to the seemingly never - ending list of biblical words which refer to the second death strictly in terms of complete destruction and utter perishment . Also notice from the above text that ungodly people are likened to “brute beasts, creatures of instinct . ” The word ‘beasts’ here is translated from a Greek word which means “animals ” (Strong 35 ). Now note what the latter part of verse 12 states will happen to these ‘ animals : ’ “ and like beasts they too will perish. ” So the Bible clearly likens unrighteous people here to animals , creatures of instinct , and states that they will ultimately perish in the same manner as animals . Since this is so , the question is naturally raised: How do animals perish ? Do they perish by being consciously tortured forever and ever? Do they perish by having their “well-being ruined ?” Do they perish by spending eternity “separated from God?” No, they perish by simply ceasing to exist (though, of course, some amount of conscious suffering is involved in that perishing ). This is not an isolated instance in Scripture as Psalm 49 : 20 says that “A man who has riches without understanding is like the beasts that perish . ” The word ‘beasts’ in this text likewise refers to “ animals” (Strong 19 ). One might suggest that this passage is referring to the first death , not to the second death, but this can ’t be so because rich men with understanding as well as rich men without understanding will both ultimately suffer the first death. Besides this , the writer of the Psalm states in verse 15 that “God will redeem my life from the grave (Sheol ); he will surely take me to him . ” The Psalmist confidently believed that God would redeem him from Sheol/ Hades, whereas we can confidently deduce that “the man who has riches without understanding” will be resurrected from Sheol/ Hades on the day of judgment to be judged and cast into the lake of fire , where like beasts he will perish. |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by Wilgrea7(m): 10:54pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
It ’s important at this point to emphasize that the view of literal everlasting destruction does not in any way deny the existence of hell ; although this is obvious I’ m compelled to bring it up because adherents of eternal torture often try to give this impression . Let me give you an example: a popular fundamentalist heresy hunter had one of his sermons aired on the radio to defend the doctrine of eternal torment in response to the view of everlasting destruction . NOTE: Most such “heresy hunters” are not interested in biblical truth but rather in hunting down and discrediting anyone who deviates from their idea of proper Christian orthodoxy ; in other words, truth is not the issue , but rather blind adherence to the established and accepted teachings of their religious tradition . The title of this man ’s sermon was “Why I Believe In Hell. ” There are two problems with this title. The first is that it gives the impression that adherents of everlasting destruction don ’t believe in hell while supporters of eternal torture do . This isn ’t even remotely true . Adherents of both everlasting destruction and eternal torture believe that hell , the lake of fire , exists and that ungodly people will be cast into it on judgment day . The issue of contention concerns the nature of punishment these people will experience in the lake of fire. The Bible calls it “the second death ” (Revelation 20 : 14 - 15 ). Does this second death consist of eternal conscious torment or literal everlasting destruction ? You see , the issue is not whether hell exists , but what happens there . The obvious reason supporters of eternal torment resort to such tactics is because they don ’ t want people to be exposed to the monumental scriptural support for everlasting destruction . If they can successfully malign adherents of literal destruction as “heretics who don ’t believe in hell ,” most Christians won ’ t even consider the immense biblical support for everlasting destruction . After all, if they can keep people from studying it they can keep them from believing it. The reason they take this approach is because they cannot disprove literal destruction scripturally ; they therefore attempt to keep people from considering the position altogether by misrepresenting it. Another common avoidance tactic they implement is to say that everlasting destruction is a cultic belief because a couple of cultic or borderline cultic organizations adhere to it in one form or another . Such an argument successfully diverts attention from the proof of Scripture , which is where any teaching ultimately stands or falls The reason supporters of eternal torment like to use the word ‘hell ’ is because it ’ s a good cover- up term for eternal conscious torture. What do I mean by this ? When they speak of ‘hell ’ they ’re actually referring to never - ending fiery torment in separation from God with no merciful pause to the roasting misery. This , of course , is way too heinous of a concept to spell out in this manner , so they simply use ‘ hell ’ as a code word to covertly refer to it. A much more honest and accurate title of this man ’s sermon would be “Why I Believe in Eternal Conscious Torture of the Damned . ” Why are supporters of eternal torment so reluctant to honestly and accurately spell out what they really believe in this manner? Why do they feel they must hide behind code words and other misleading words and phrases (e . g . “perish ,” “death” and “eternal separation from God”)? Naturally because if they spell out what they really believe it would expose their belief as the sadistic sham that it is . The bottom line is that the view of everlasting destruction does not in any way , shape or form deny the reality of hell , the lake of fire ; all it denies is the Roman Church’s traditional teaching that people will suffer never - ending conscious torture there . I believe it’s also important to emphasize that the view of literal everlasting destruction allows for all the conscious pain that divine justice might require for any sinner to suffer according to his or her personal degree of guilt . In other words, the second death does not necessarily occur in an instant ; yet the extinguishment of conscious life will ultimately occur as any suffering experienced mercifully ends in death — eternal death — death that lasts forever. This is a biblical principle regarding God’ s judgment and justice . Consider, for instance, ‘ Babylon ’ in the book of Revelation , which will be judged to be destroyed , but will be given “as much torture and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself ” while being destroyed REVELATION 18 : 5 - 7 “for her [Babylon’ s] sins are piled up to heaven and God has remembered her crimes. Give back to her as she has given; pay her back double for what she has done . Mix her a double portion from her own cup . Give her as much torture and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself As you can see , according to God ’s just judgment , conscious suffering will be meted out to “Babylon ” in direct relation to the sinful excesses in which she indulged . She is to get back punishment “as she has given ,” and this penalty will apparently be doubled. Doubling the payback is in keeping with God’ s character as this is exactly how He judged his very own nation of Israel (see , for example, Isaiah 40 : 2 and Jeremiah 16 : 18 ). Chapter 18 goes on to inform us of the “torments ” Babylon will suffer (verses 10 and 15 ). Yet this suffering will end in complete destruction as Babylon will be utterly “consumed by fire ” (verse 8 ), just as this entire present earth will ultimately be destroyed in preparation for the new earth (2 Peter 3 : 10 - 11 ). Consider it this way, if you jumped into a bonfire , would you not experience conscious suffering for a brief period of time before losing consciousness and ultimately burning to death? Of course you would. It ’s the same principle with the second death when God casts the damned into the lake of fire; the difference being that the period of suffering will be meted out to each individual according to their degree of sinful guilt as divine justice properly dictates. The period of conscious suffering may last a split second, one minute , an hour , a day, a week , or longer . It all depends on whom we ’ re talking about . Are we talking about the little old ungodly lady who lives down the street or Adolf Hitler ? Hitler is responsible for the horrible suffering and deaths of millions upon millions of people . Perhaps God will determine that he deserves to experience the suffering and death of those millions of people before his ultimate extinction. We don ’t know, of course ; I ’m just speculating. It’ s all up to the Supreme Judge to decide . Understanding this helps explain a couple statements Jesus made . For instance: MATTHEW 11 : 24 “But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you [ referring to the people of the city of Capernaum ] . ” Adherents of the eternal torment theory have used this text to support the idea that there will be varying degrees of ceaseless torture — as if never - ending torment is not bad enough (rolling my eyes). For example, in the case of Capernaum , eternal torturists would say that the people of this city will receive a harsher judgment and , consequently, a greater degree of perpetual roasting torment . The notion is absurd. The whole point Jesus is trying to make in this section of Scripture (Matthew 11 : 20 - 24 and Luke 10 : 12 - 15 ) is that the unrepentant cities of Chorazin, Bethsaida and Capernaum , where he preached and performed great miracles, are guilty of even greater sins than the infamous cities of Tyre , Sidon and Sodom . Because of this , Jesus states that it’s going to be “ more bearable … on the day of judgment ” for Sodom than those unrepentant cities. Please note that Jesus said it would be more bearable on the day of judgment , not more bearable for all eternity experiencing fiery conscious torment in the lake of fire . Jesus is simply pointing out that , on the day of judgment , the second death will be more bearable for the people of Sodom than for the people of Capernaum according to divine justice . Why? Because the people of Capernaum are guilty of a greater degree of sin . That ’s simple enough to understand , isn ’t it? We should just allow Scripture to say what it literally says and not feel compelled to add to it or take away (Revelation 22 : 18 - 19 ). In this case , adherents of eternal torment read way too much into Jesus’ simple statement , no doubt because they ’re desperate for biblical support of their position . Jesus also implied that God ’s enemies would experience varying degrees of conscious suffering at the second death when he stated that corrupt religious teachers would “ receive the greater condemnation” (NRSV ) or “ will be punished most severely” (Mark 12 : 40 & Luke 20 : 47 ). We ’ve already determined from numerous passages that the unredeemed will suffer utter destruction of soul in body at the second death , but — obviously — some will justly experience a severer degree of conscious suffering when this destruction occurs. This aspect of the second death is actually quite comforting if you reflect on it. It suggests that everybody ’ s going to get exactly what he or she justly deserves on judgment day . All throughout human history evildoers have unfortunately “gotten away ” with their wicked deeds — murderers, molesters , sadists, rapists, robbers , charlatans , oppressors , tyrants, slanderers , false testifiers , etc. ; but we can take comfort in the fact that God’s justice will ultimately prevail and every unrepentant soul will justly “get what ’ s coming to him or her . ” |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by Wilgrea7(m): 10:56pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
DEUTERONOMY 30 : 19 b “… I have set before you life and death , blessings and curses . Now choose life …” JOHN 3 : 16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life . ” ROMANS 6 : 23 For the wages of sin is death , but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. ” We observe here three crystal clear passages from the three most important sections of the Bible — the Torah (or Pentateuch ), the Gospels and the Epistles; and all three clearly reveal that God ’s offer to humanity is life or death. This has already been stressed in Chapter One, but it bears repeating : life and death are the two polar opposites , not life - in - bliss and life - in -burning - torment . As John 3 : 16 says , God doesn ’t want anyone to perish. Deuteronomy 30 : 19 above even shows God imploring people to wisely “choose life . ” But the LORD ’ s attitude is that if people want to reject wisdom ’s call and foolishly choose sin & death that ’s their choice . They have the free moral right to do so. Such fools are not worthy of God’ s kingdom anyway . (In a sense , of course, no one is worthy of God’s kingdom, but Jesus plainly spoke of “ those who are considered worthy of taking part” in God’ s kingdom [ Luke 20 : 35 - 36 ] . Who are these people whom Jesus says are worthy? Simply those humble, repentant folks who wisely decide to forsake the folly of sin & death and “choose life ” through Christ ). In regards to utter extinction in hell not being severe enough , how much severer should it justly be ? How much severer does it need to be ? Just imagine how it will be on judgment day for those people who foolishly reject God : They ’ll have to stand before the Almighty , who will judge their entire lives , and condemn them to death in the lake of fire — an annihilation so utterly complete that it will be as if they had never existed (see Obadiah 16 ). Then they ’ll be removed from His presence and cast into a vast , consuming lake of fire. Can you imagine the depression, shame , guilt and torment of being rejected by the very Creator of life who has judged the individual ’s life so completely worthless that he or she must be absolutely snuffed out of existence and memory ? Can you imagine being led to a vast , dreadful lake of fire , standing at its edge, knowing that this is it — your life ’ s going to be blotted out and there ’s absolutely no hope of resurrection, restoration or recovery? And then , finally , the torment and pain experienced when cast into the fire — suffering that will last precisely as long as God’ s justice requires . I ’m taking the lake of fire in the literal sense here , and why not ? If the plain sense makes sense and is in harmony with other scriptural passages we shouldn ’t look for any other sense lest we end up with nonsense. Yet , because some would argue that the book of Revelation is a book of symbols , let ’s consider the possibility that the “lake of fire ” is a metaphor . Even if this is so , the Bible precisely defines this ‘metaphor ’: “The lake of fire is the second death ” (Revelation 20 : 14 b ). So regardless of whether we take the “lake of fire ” literally or figuratively , it is certain that it refers to the execution of the second death. Taking it metaphorically does not make it any less serious or dreadful. As it is written : “It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God” (Hebrews 10 : 31 ). Can anyone look me in the eyes with a straight face and tell me that such a terrible and utter obliteration as this is not severe enough ? I must ask once again, how much harsher does God’ s just judgment on humanity need to be ? I ’m flabbergasted that anyone would suggest that this is not a severe enough punishment . In fact, I ’ll go so far as to say this (with no apologies ): Anyone who feels the unrighteous should suffer a severer punishment is sick , sadistic and wicked. If literal everlasting destruction is not a severe enough punishment to motivate people to “ choose life ” and serve God, then what inspires me and numerous other people I know who adhere to this view? Like everyone else , I have my share of flaws and weaknesses, but I consider myself a devoutly committed Christian who has been serving God for over thirty years . I don ’t need a constant heinous threat of eternal roasting torture to be faithful to God. (I’ ll reveal why momentarily ). And what does it say about the character of people — or perhaps I should say lack of character — if they need a constant threat of perpetual agony to live a remotely godly life ? Does God really want or need such people serving in His kingdom? Can such characterless brutes serve at all ? I am reminded of a person I worked with for one day . We took a company van and drove out to do a job. Since we spent considerable time driving we had a lot of time to talk. On the way back the subject of hell was brought up (he was aware of my view and wanted to contest it). He wasn ’t a very mature Christian or very knowledgeable in the Scriptures , but we dialogued on the issue and toward the end it got pretty heated. When I pulled up to his apartment to drop him off, he said something to the effect of , “Well , I need the threat of eternal torment to motivate me to live right . ” He proceeded to get out of the van and walked to his apartment where he was living in fornication with a woman . Shortly later he was fired for stealing . So much for the view of eternal torture inspiring people to live right . One last important comment on this matter : The argument that literal everlasting destruction is not a severe enough punishment to motivate the common person to follow the LORD is based on a flawed , perverted view of Christianity . It implies that living a Christian life faithful to God is so utterly boring , rigid and lifeless that it’s going to take an over - the - top ghastly threat to coerce people into actually living it. Such thinking like this comes straight from the kingdom of darkness. I’ ve lived on both sides of the fence — I lived the supposed “wild & crazy ” lifestyle until I was 20 years old and I ’ve been following God ’s way ever since — and I can testify that there is nothing more joyous, exciting, empowering , peaceful or liberating than living a biblical, Spirit - led Christian lifestyle . Being in fellowship with the Creator of the universe is a never - ending party as God is truly the ultimate “ drug. ” In fact, the Bible describes the LORD as “the fountain of life ” because life itself literally gushes from him (Psalm 36 : 9 ), not sterility, dullness and death ! Only God can fill that emptiness within us . This is not to suggest , of course , that the Christian life is void of troubles , hardships or trials — far from it — but any misery one might experience in obedience to God is nowhere near the misery experienced in disobedience to Him , if you know what I mean. We need to always remember that Jesus came to set people Such thinking like this comes straight from the kingdom of darkness. I ’ve lived on both sides of the fence — I lived the supposed “ wild & crazy ” lifestyle until I was 20 years old and I ’ve been following God’s way ever since — and I can testify that there is nothing more joyous, exciting, empowering , peaceful or liberating than living a biblical, Spirit - led Christian lifestyle . Being in fellowship with the Creator of the universe is a never - ending party as God is truly the ultimate “ drug. ” In fact, the Bible describes the LORD as “the fountain of life ” because life itself literally gushes from him (Psalm 36 : 9 ), not sterility, dullness and death ! Only God can fill that emptiness within us . This is not to suggest , of course , that the Christian life is void of troubles , hardships or trials — far from it — but any misery one might experience in obedience to God is nowhere near the misery experienced in disobedience to Him , if you know what I mean. We need to always remember that Jesus came to set people free (see , for instance, John 8 : 31 - 32 ,36 and Galatians 5 : 1 ). So if you’re a Christian and the lifestyle you’ re experiencing is boring , rigid and lifeless , I ’ve got news for you, you’ ve settled for a counterfeit gospel ! Open your eyes, dig deeper, examine yourself & your supposed relationship with the Most High and perhaps find a really biblical church to attend . Genuine Christianity is a relationship with the Almighty Creator of the universe , not another life - stifling , growth - stultifying religion (see Acts 14 : 15 )! |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by absool(m): 10:59pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
Wilgrea7:abeg who go read dis tori |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by Wilgrea7(m): 11:00pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
please read and be enlightened... don't let anyone twist the scriptures or ignore the biblical meaning of a word while giving it another meaning... one last post Paul fully proclaimed the whole counsel of God by plainly declaring: That those who live a lifestyle of unrepentant sin “deserve death” — Romans 1:32 That “all who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law” — Romans 2:12 That sin “leads to death” — Romans 6:16 That sin “results in death” — Romans 6:21 That “the wages of sin is death” — Romans 6:23 That those who live according to the sinful nature “will die” — Romans 8:13 That the gospel is foolishness “to those who are perishing” — 1 Corinthians 1:18 That “in Adam all die” — 1 Corinthians 15:22 That those who preach the gospel are “the smell of death” “to those who are perishing” — 2 Corinthians 2:15-16 That the Old Testament law “kills” and ultimately brings “death” — 2 Corinthians 3:6-7 That the gospel is “veiled to those who are perishing” — 2 Corinthians 4:3 That those who please the sinful nature “from that nature will reap destruction” – Galatians 6:8 That “they will be destroyed” — Philippians 1:28 That “their destiny is destruction” — Philippians 3:19 That “they will be punished with everlasting destruction” — 2 Thessalonians 1:9 That they “are perishing” — 2 Thessalonians 2:10 That “they perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved” — 2 Thessalonians 2:10 That “Christ Jesus… has destroyed death” — 2 Timothy 1:10 We can add these four if Paul was the writer of Hebrews: That they are like worthless land that will “in the end… be burned” — Hebrews 6:8 That sins are “acts that lead to death” — Hebrews 9:14 That raging fire “will consume the enemies of God” — Hebrews 10:27 That those who “shrink back” in unbelief will be “destroyed” — Hebrews 10:39 In various ways with various words Paul was sure to repeatedly declare precisely what would happen to those who foolishly reject the gospel. He was sure to do this because God appointed him to fully proclaim the whole counsel of God. Paul didn’t hide any aspect of the truth — including the awful truth that those who reject Christ will be utterly destroyed by the raging, consuming fire of the Lord. If words have any meaning at all then this is what we must conclude. Allow me to add that if Jesus supposedly preached eternal torture, as many contend, then Paul would have certainly backed it up. Yet Paul taught no such thing because Jesus taught no such thing, not to mention the Bible they taught from — what we now know as the Old Testament — teaches no such thing. Lastly, I’d like to point out that, in Acts 20:26-27, quoted above, Paul declared he was “innocent of the blood of all men” because he didn’t hesitate to share the whole counsel of God, including the unfortunate news of what would ultimately happen to those who reject the gospel. The very fact that Paul said he was innocent of the blood of all people is a sure indication that people will actually die when they suffer the second death. Whether physical blood or spiritual blood, it doesn’t matter, the fact is that people’s blood will spill on the day of judgment, which is called “the day of slaughter” in the Bible (James 5:5). Gehenna, often translated as “hell” in English Bibles and used as a symbolic reference to the lake of fire, was also known as “The Valley of Slaughter.” “Slaughter” plainly signifies that blood will be spilled, and the simple fact is that when blood is spilled people die. Paul’s statement makes no sense whatsoever if people don’t really perish in the lake of fire, if people exist forever in conscious torment their blood would not be spilled at all — they’d still be alive, forever. you shall know the truth... and the truth shall set you free |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by Wilgrea7(m): 11:04pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
absool:i know its long... forgive me for that.. but its worth it |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by honourhim: 11:07pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
Peacefullove: Ok so when it is eternal life then the word "eternal" and "forever" assumes their true meaning but when it has to do with torment or punishment then their meaning changes? You people are something else. smh. |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by honourhim: 11:10pm On Oct 31, 2016 |
Wilgrea7: Its the brother here with the username- Thesixtsense that use to be an atheist. |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by Nobody: 12:42am On Nov 01, 2016 |
analice107:Great. I am also repulsed by it. Always have been and that was what fuelled my atheism. But in my limited knowledge, I have traced the origin and the information I came across informed and eased my burden. Some people are making an effort to unite the church no matter how fruitless that may seem. My chief concern are those who will be led astray by the wolves masking as preachers of the gospel in the fold. Can i call them innocent? Can i say that they do not know they are being lied to? well, that's my concern.Some people propagate lies without even knowing, only because that is what they have been taught as truth. There have always been wolves but imagine which set of christians would be branded wolves today if the apostles came back today? My principal point is that, the Church that Jesus instituted was One, and it operated in unity sharing things together. Yes, I know that from back then, Satan began his divide and rule policy of sectionalizing the church by making some identify themselves as Paul's, and some as Apollo's, but that was killed by Paul. For neither Paul or Apollos died for anyone. The church belongs to Christ and shd adhere strictly to His teachings.There is always bound to be disunity when human beings gather, so there is a need for a respectable leader and leadership. Where there isn't the flock run amock. When the Bible is used as supreme authority, this become seriously flawed, as is clearly evident on this thread, because although the Bible is the authority, which/whose interpretation should be taken? The troubling aspect here is that people arguing can even be members of the same church. If you are not concerned about bishops or deacons as clearly written in Scripture, fine. What they allow and still allow today all have explanations and they use Scripture to explain whatever they have instituted and explain why and when. How does Peter's Bones being preserved where adds anything to the salvation of souls or living a godly life? Idolatry is what will make anyone wants to keep Peter's bones and what purpose does it serve?  the Lord said 'And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.' This would have no meaning until you find that where Peter was buried is the same location the Basilica was built, mysteriously or by providence. Is it usual for an institution to last, doing the same tradition, for over 2000 years? especially when the other churches like those in Revelation and Turkey have become muslim territories. Coincidence? You don't even find many people in Lutheran churches anymore, can anyone confidently say, if the Lord tarries, my church would continue doing the same thing, no modification, no appealing to the unbelievers by bringing in basketmouth and 'I go die' into church, for 2000 years? I think not. My prediction, 100 years is a long time. Peter's remains serve no purpose other than proof for the Roman catholics that the church is still standing today because of the prophecy of Jesus Christ and it is the Church Jesus started through Peter. Am not interested in the Universality of Catholicism, am interested in the church which teaches the word of God Pure and True.The word of God pure and true had a beginning. The compilation of the Bible had a beginning. The 66 books of the bible that the protestants declared as closed canon also had a beginning. When did they start teaching the word of God and who taught it? The apostles. Good, did they have disciples? Yes. Did the disciples have successors? Yes. Are they traceable? Yes. Are there valid documents I can find? Absolutely, Yes. So what did they teach about the Scripture? What did these early christians believe? How did they pray? How did they worship? How did they live? What happened to the churches in the book of Revelation? Where are they today? When did my church start? Where did it break out from and where did that one break out from and why? Why am I not partaking in sacrament of the Eucharist that the early church fathers and Jesus Christ commanded (John 6:53-57)? How come Salvation changed from the 16th century...and still changing? How come the original position of the reformers was Cessationalism (did God cease performing miracles?) after declaring the canon closed? Calvinism or Arminianism? Who is Zwingli and Scofield and Calvin and Luther? it's funny how many people follow the lead of these men but have a problem with people following a Pope that can be traced back to an apostle. Searching for answers to these benign questions would lead you to information for a start. Let Love rule. We cant claim to love God if we do not love Man. Man here includes every one who walks on four, talks and have the potentials of becoming a believer in Christ tomorrowOf course, we cannot say we love God when we do not love our neighbour. God is love. **Truth is absolute and cannot be invalidated by contrary information. For example: I am black, I can see that I am black and I know and the world agrees what black skin is so no matter the amount of confusion or deception labelled about me telling me that I am white would not affect me, as long as everyone sticks to the same definition of black skin is. One wouldn't even sweat these kind of people such as the atheists on NL that say Jesus Christ never existed. Subject your denomination and your doctrine to such tests with the Bible and History then see if your opinion would remain fixed (belief) about the Roman Catholic or Orthodox. |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by Nobody: 3:12am On Nov 01, 2016 |
analice107:O dear! This put a sour taste in my mouth. Poor woman and baby. The sad thing is the same church people would blame her for lack of faith. Such coldheartedness. But it is what is being taught by the church. If the church didn't teach such they wouldn't have come up with that suggestion I would assume. Now, if she had listened to the Doctor and not take his instruction as a threat, she would be alive she and her baby. If we warn the unbelievers of the danger ahead but they take it as a threat, then its unfortunate. Even Yahweh said he will require their blood from our hands if we know that they are on the wrong track but fail to warn them. No one will know he is on a wrong track and continues on it. Immediately the realization comes, a change also comes. But if they fight it what can u do? If i warn them and they take it as a threat, i will be free, but if they stand before God realizing they were told, but yapped at it, the fault will be theirs not mine anymore. I don't think this is an appropriate analogy to use nonetheless it is based on one's understanding/belief of the atonement in the first place. Hyper Calvinism is explicit in saying that although the atonement is sufficient for everyone, it is 100% efficient because salvation is not for everyone ie. Not everybody will be saved and by inference people are predestined (because God knows the end from the beginning) for hell anyway. This view has the backing of the Bible verses, and the adherents could turn out to be the most arrogant, who believe that their job is to say the word as it is in the Bible, 'if they like believe if they like they shouldn't as for me I have said my own, it is the Holy Spirit that does the conviction' The motive therefore is then to clear one's conscience and not love for the person they are telling/warning about the consequences of not accepting Jesus. True, it is the Holy Spirit that convicts the world of sin and righteousness and judgement but do we have to offend say a couple having a cup of coffee with warning from the fires of hell? When one knows it goes beyond verbally reciting the sinner's prayer then one would know that cowering someone to accept Christ is fruitless. This is why precision of doctrine is very important. The view and image of this kind of Hyper Calvinist God is an angry God that predestines everything but is raging with wrath, angry at His creation, then subsequently gives up His Son to die to abate His wrath and after that is more angry at people who do not accept the sacrifice of His only begotten Son. Having this kind of mental view of God would give anyone tremors, nightmares and apocalyptic visions. Christians who hold such view of God would have messages that would always be warning people about hell and the end-time and that Jesus won't take some christians in many other churches that don't teach what my church teaches...faith based on fear and delusion, this kind isn't sustainable and turns people off like a comment I saw on one of the apocalyptic prophecies on NL by an angry atheist 'This your God always wants to destroy and bring natural disasters.' Why would anyone want to worship this kind of God? and they go 'you must otherwise you will be condemned to hell fire for eternity. In other words, you are trying to save them from God. There are other views, like Arminianism factors in man's free will and their approach is different so sometimes they do not say it verbatim as it is in the Bible so as not to offend people. But it goes beyond both. Long story, what I am saying here is because of some people, God bless them because we now have the Bible, who redefined Salvation (Yes, it is by faith, but is it by faith alone?) and declared the canon closed, in their interpretation present this angry God that keeps people in faith because of fear of hell that when anyone loses that fear, they become atheists. The difference in Isaiah 53:10 in the LXX and MT makes a huge difference as insignificant as it may seem. Read the Prayer of Manasseh and ask why it was removed from the Bible, is it wrong to pray that prayer? If you see why it was removed then you will get my point. There are good people, pious and religious in other religions who fear the almighty God and keep His statutes because righteousness in major religions are similar in what they abstain from. Cornelius is the example here, he feared God gave alms, fasted and prayed as a devout man. Jesus Christ told the Samarian woman at the well, You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know(John 4:22)...it's about understanding anyway. And remember sir, Hellfire was not created for man, any man who goes there goes there out of his own volition.Of course not. By His mercy, we would not be found wanting to go there. It is created for the devil and his demons and I never said there was no fire or torment but I agree with the OP that God is just and righteous in judgement. A serial killer and a liar would not be punished the same. I only have a different understanding and view now, not of my invention, that is consistent with a loving God, not a sadist, that is in line and does not change or invalidate scriptural truths of the Holy Bible. |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by Wilgrea7(m): 7:32am On Nov 01, 2016 |
@ TheSixthSense.... i would really like to know your view on hell.. is it universalism? |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by Wilgrea7(m): 8:13am On Nov 01, 2016 |
As thesixthsense said, i have been doing and am still doing research on the doctrines of the church fathers... but for now I'm concentrating on the hell part... it seems it was st Augustine who due to his greek knowledge introduced Plato's concept of the immortal soul.. before then there had been more annihilationist.. the battle of either annihilation or eternal torment has been there throughout the times. eternal torment on the other hand came in about 400-500 AD.. people like Ignatius wrote texts.. some which seem to support annihilation while relatively fewer others seeming to support eternal torment. apart from a verse in Judith, all other Apocryptic books all point to everlasting destruction. also, the concept of everlasting destruction(annihilation) in opposition to eternal torment was also supported and in line with the Jewish taknah, the dead sea scrolls, gospel of barnabas etc.. also, contrary to the orthodox belief of eternal torment which was later forced into the early orthodox, the founder of orthodox believed in universalism (salvation of everyone). some early church fathers held this view stating the fire of God was "wise" and it would be meant for purification and not eternal torment... before st Augustine, the church did not believe in an immortal soul.. it was taught that only the righteous that would receive immortality as a gift.. this of course is in line with the scripture.. whereas when Augustine brought in his platonic doctrine of the immortal soul, he stated that even the souls of the lost are immortal.. this contradicting the scripture which said only the king of kings and the lord of lords hath immortality. his non biblical platonic view of the soul and the non-scriptural Dante's inferno greatly fuelled the eternal torment doctrine which he forced and later became the teachings of mainstream Christianity... but after a while when the bible was canonised, people started studying it and coming up with the views of annihilation, ceasing to exist after death, and universalism. although if it comes to written texts(dead sea scrolls, Jewish taknah, etc) all have a major support for annihilation. 1 Like |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by blueAgent(m): 8:58am On Nov 01, 2016 |
otemanuduno: You think Christainity is Atheism that is inconsistent?. The Bible is misinterpreted by billions of people including clergy men. |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by blueAgent(m): 9:00am On Nov 01, 2016 |
Wilgrea7: True. |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by achorladey: 9:57am On Nov 01, 2016 |
@Analice107 JWs do not believe in Spirit yet they believe in God. How can you reconcile that? From this statement above it proves Wilgrea claim that you a fine example of a dogma. Please its always good to confirm and verify your claims before you spread inspired falsehood. |
| Re: The False Doctrine Of Eternal Torment And Judgement After Death(sleep) by achorladey: 10:13am On Nov 01, 2016 |
It is easy to use Matt 10:28 to preach 'Hell fire' but it is not easy to explain the statement 'destroy body and soul in hell' that same verse. |
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