wow!
This illustration perfectly shows the position that religion is in in the 21st century.

We are all on the same planet  'in the same room' and there are no dragons here. The lights have finally been switched on.

Makes no sense.

Keep yourself busy.

I know not to underestimate the paralysis of denial, but with the light of knowledge starting to reveal the true nature of the world we live in, ignorance is no longer a valid excuse.

Religions started in the dark and made sense then, but we are not living in the dark now. Ignorance is being replaced with facts, knowledge and understanding.
We are all in the same room. We are not 'saved' and 'unsaved', 'chosen' and condemed. There are no dragons, demons, and evil spirits. There is only us and we all need to get used to it.

mantraa:

I know not to underestimate the paralysis of denial, but with the light of knowledge starting to reveal the true nature of the world we live in, ignorance is no longer a valid excuse.

Religions started in the dark and made sense then, but we are not living in the dark now. Ignorance is being replaced with facts, knowledge and understanding.
We are all in the same room. We are not 'saved' and 'unsaved', 'chosen' and condemed. There are no dragons, demons, and evil spirits. There is only us and we all need to get used to it.

Really? Light of which knowledge? Are we any closer to discovering how we appeared on this planet?

Really? Light of which knowledge? Are we any closer to discovering how we appeared on this planet?

My friend, that question exemplifies what i mean when i say i do not underestimate the paralysis of denial.

So much has been discovered in so many different fields such as geology, astronomy, biology, anthropology, physics, genetics, etc etc, that has brought us out of the darkness of ignorance that have allowed so many superstitious beliefs to thrive for so long.

It seems like you are trying so hard to bury your head in the sand where it is still dark, but, like an ostrich, you cannot hide. And you cannot switch the lights back off.
Come on out of the dark. Dont be afraid. The things you will learn when you free your mind may even bring you closer to understanding the true nature of your god.

mantraa:

My friend, that question exemplifies what i mean when i say i do not underestimate the paralysis of denial.

So much has been discovered in so many different fields such as geology, astronomy, biology, anthropology, physics, genetics, etc etc, that has brought us out of the darkness of ignorance that have allowed so many superstitious beliefs to thrive for so long.

It seems like you are trying so hard to bury your head in the sand where it is still dark, but, like an ostrich, you cannot hide. And you cannot switch the lights back off.
Come on out of the dark. Dont be afraid. The things you will learn when you free your mind may even bring you closer to understanding the true nature of your god.

Climb off your high horse . . . many of us are equally scientists too unlike many of you who only embrace a superficial form of "science" merely to use it as a cloak for your unbelief.

If there is anything all the sciences you mention above have told us . . . it is the fact that this world would be entirely impossible based on chance alone. I'm sure you took a course in statistics.

lol nice comic

davidylan:

Climb off your high horse . . . many of us are equally scientists too unlike many of you who only embrace a superficial form of "science" merely to use it as a cloak for your unbelief.

Crying all day on NL that you are a scientist does not make you one, studying the work of scientist to know how their theory and postulation work does not make you one of them it only says that you are an observer trying to know how the process works based on what others have done, the last time I checked the name of scientist that have contributed to the field of science and the scientific process your name did not appear there. So get down from you high horse.

If there is anything all the sciences you mention above have told us . . . it is the fact that this world would be entirely impossible based on chance alone. I'm sure you took a course in statistics.

Science has told us more about ourselves than all your make belief superstitions will. In fact what has your superstition told us about the earth or the universe?

toneyb:

Craying all day on NL that you are a scientist does not make you one, studing the work of scientist to know how their theory and postulation work does not make you one of them it only says that you are an observer trying to know how the process works based on what others have done, the last time I checked the name of scientist that have contributed to the field of science and the scientific process you name did not appear there. So get down from you high horse.

That's quite true . . . Darwin, Watson nor Crick made any contributions to science as scientists-in-training. It takes a while dumbo. Even most nobel laureates in science earn their badges at old age . . . i'm sure you fool dont expect me to be writing nature papers at this stage.

toneyb:

Science has told us more about ourselves than all your make belief superstitions will. In fact what has your superstition told us about the earth or the universe?

Its funny that the more science reveals, the more we realise how much the human body on its own could NEVER have been an accident of chance. But fools like you have no idea no?

Subscribing, to be back soon.

davidylan:

That's quite true . . . Darwin, Watson nor Crick made any contributions to science as scientists-in-training. It takes a while dumbo. Even most nobel laureates in science earn their badges at old age . . . i'm sure you fool dont expect me to be writing nature papers at this stage.

So shut up, crying all day on NL that you are a scientist(even though you have never contributed anything to the scientific process) does not make you one, when you do I will be the first person to congratulate you on your contribution until then be quite and stop crying all the time that you are one when you are not.

Its funny that the more science reveals, the more we realise how much the human body on its own could NEVER have been an accident of chance. But fools like you have no idea no?

So the best thing is to ascribe everything that we see about the human body to a deity who has shown through his revelations that he has no clue about science and how the human body functions? Deluded fool.

toneyb:

So the best thing is to ascribe everything that we see about the human body to a deity who has shown through his revelations that he has no clue about science andh how the human body functions? Deluded fool.

so its just easier to ascribe it to statistics?

and you call me deluded?

davidylan:

so its just easier to ascribe it to statistics?

and you call me deluded?

Last time I checked you were the only person ascribing it so statistics not me.

toneyb:

Last time I checked you were the only person ascribing it so statistics not me.

Actually the vast majority of scientists do . . . its the basis for evolution you fool.

davidylan:

Actually the vast majority of scientists do . . . its the basis for evolution you fool.

I laugh at the rejoinders of this hopeless fool, Evolution does not talk about the origin of life does it? You need to be considerably more specific about what exactly you mean with “statistics.” If you mean for example that somewhere a lizard suddenly grows a pair of wing, some feathers and a beak, and thus “by statistics” turns into a bird then that is a stupid creationist straw man and a very silly one at that. In fact if such a thing were to be observed it would refute evolution according to evolutionist. Strictly speaking evolution according to evolutinist is the study of gene and allele frequencies.

They say that evolution concerns itself with how certain genes (or alleles) become abundant or scarce, and the factors that play a role in it including chance. But that is their theory and I do not subscribe to it completely. By the way they have done more in defending their theory than you have done with your stupid and nonsensical god did it delusion that you are yet to properly defend or provide any evidence for.

The topic here is not just evolution even though I know you will like it to be only about evolution, the topic is about science and the light it has shown humanity agsinst the ridiculous old myths that you goons subscribe to while trying to defame science and all that it has shown and done for humanity, Everything that we know about this universe and the world around us we know through science not through all the various bronze aged myths you subscribe to.

toneyb:

I laugh at the rejoinders of this hopeless fool, Evolution does not talk about the origin of life does it? You need to be considerably more specific about what exactly you mean with “statistics.” If you mean for example that somewhere a lizard suddenly grows a pair of wing, some feathers and a beak, and thus “by statistics” turns into a bird then that is a stupid creationist straw man and a very silly one at that. In fact if such a thing were to be observed it would refute evolution according to evolutionist. Strictly speaking evolution according to evolutinist is the study of gene and allele frequencies.

They say that evolution concerns itself with how certain genes (or alleles) become abundant or scarce, and the factors that play a role in it including chance. But that is their theory and I do not subscribe to it completely. By the way they have done more in defending their theory than you have done with your stupid and nonsensical god did it delusion that you are yet to properly defend or provide any evidence for.

The topic here is not just evolution even though I know you will like it to be only about evolution, the topic is about science and the light it has shown humanity agsinst the ridiculous old myths that you goons subscribe to while trying to defame science and all that it has shown and done for humanity, Everything that we know about this universe and the world around us we know through science not through all the various bronze aged myths you subscribe to.

I will break this into three parts based on your own claims:

1. Evolution does not talk about the origin of life does it? - Evolution, by definition, attempts to shy away from discussing the origin of life because that is something scientists DO NOT UNDERSTAND. But to claim that evolution can exist WITHOUT an origin makes absolutely no sense. For example; evolution by scientific definition (politically correct by the way) is a change in genetic material from generation to generation . . . the problem here though is that evolution MUST NEEDS ACCOUNT for the very first generation where the genes in question appeared from!

2. They say that evolution concerns itself with how certain genes (or alleles) become abundant or scarce, and the factors that play a role in it including chance. - Another huge problem for the proponents of evolution. The goalposts as regarding what evolution really deals with has shifted considerably over time with the realisation that there is really precious little evidence to support it. All of a sudden evolution now concerns itself only with how CERTAIN GENES become abundant or scarce? Then WHAT EXACTLY IS MUTATION?

The evolutionary tree explicitly claims we descended from protists . . . but how did we develop genes specifically expressed only in the brain? What factors determined the genetic variation that we observe from specie to specie? How did we develop genes adapted to walking and not flying since birds can do both?

3. the topic is about science and the light it has shown humanity agsinst the ridiculous old myths - each time we ask for this "light" we are again forced through the ridiculous run around by proponents of nothing but railing against the bible. Science has indeed explained a lot about who we are, precious little about who we will become and virtually NOTHING about who we once were. Science has NO answers for what happens after the grave, it has NO answers about how the earth suddenly appeared and why there is no life on mars for instance.
Science has no answers for cancer, it has NO answers people who have functioning brains and hearts but remain in a coma forever . . . really what "light" has science shone?

davidylan:

I will break this into three parts based on your own claims:

1. Evolution does not talk about the origin of life does it? - Evolution, by definition, attempts to shy away from discussing the origin of life because that is something scientists DO NOT UNDERSTAND. But to claim that evolution can exist WITHOUT an origin makes absolutely no sense. For example; evolution by scientific definition (politically correct by the way) is a change in genetic material from generation to generation . . . the problem here though is that evolution MUST NEEDS ACCOUNT for the very first generation where the genes in question appeared from!

The scientist also agree that science does not know all things infact most of them readily agree that there are so many many things that science does not yet know for now. As for the whole evolution thingy I like others have found it wanting in so many places even some scientist that subscribe to it do not completely agree with all its postulations bacause it is filled with wild guesses and speculations.

3. the topic is about science and the light it has shown humanity agsinst the ridiculous old myths - each time we ask for this "light" we are again forced through the ridiculous run around by proponents of nothing but railing against the bible. Science has indeed explained a lot about who we are, precious little about who we will become and virtually NOTHING about who we once were.

Neither has any religion, as mazaje has once said you will expect all the proponents of the god hypothesis(religion) to spend quite some time telling us about the before life, how it is and everything about it and praying to their various gods so that children are not born into families with opposing religious views. Very telling since all religions only claim to know what will happen to people when they die . Something I KNOW all religions do not know, they only love to claim they know

Science has NO answers for what happens after the grave,

That is because non of you proponents of the god hypothesis have any answers either, you all love to pretend that your opinion, hypothesis, fantasies and conjectures alone is what matters and counts about the human race and the afrter life. Non of you have EVER provided any evidence at all for your claims about the after life, all we have are endless hypothesis,fantasies and conjectures that lack any basis in reality.

it has NO answers about how the earth suddenly appeared and why there is no life on mars for instance.

We know that Mars exist only through science and not through carefully studying the bible, koran or the hindu text. At least through science we truly know what the stars are and we know that they can not fall into the earth or fight along side humans as some religions postulate, we know about the planets and we know that our position in the cosmos is completely insignificant when the entire universe is put together because science told us so. Our sun is just one out of the gazillion of suns out there uncountable with stars revolving around them like ours, science gave us that knowledge about the cosmos not any religion and its ludacrious claims.

Science has no answers for cancer, it has NO answers people who have functioning brains and hearts but remain in a coma forever . . .

Neither does religion, the problem is that many christians try to use science to prove the bible, and they spend decades studying science in order to try to prove the bible. If a god truly exists as they will like to have people believe, surely there would be simple easy ways to find good evidence that he exists without using complex scientific findings know. They forget that according to their own bible their god used to have a place of the lords presence where he lives and summons people to go and have conversations with him or offer sacrifices unto him every body around knew that was where he renders his presence and they all revere that place grealtly according to the story, but now they are trying to depend or use complex scientific processes and finding to prove the existence of their god.

really what "light" has science shone?

Every light, If it hasn't you fellow christian apologist will not be trying endlessly to use it to prove the existence of the god you subscribe to. You were able to know about the christian narrative only because science was involved,the colonialists that came with the message of christianity used ships, navagating systems, to get to us, they used science(books, ink, printers) so that a copy of the bible can get to you. You are a christian today only because some science was used at one stage or the other in propagating the message to you, and yet you still ask these very embarassing questions. Science REMAINS the only hope for humanity.

and you call me deluded?

. . .you are worse off than that!  The gentleman was polite to use such mild term to describe your   bleep    behind. . . you were fortunate that by the time I responded to your delusional remarks yesterday other respondents had taken the air out of me with their prompt response to you. You   bleep   head, walking around like you have no damn sense.  

Atheists, very good illustration. . .but I just wonder if the scientist would recognize a dragon if he indeed saw one.

Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

But the moon is not a light, but only reflects light from the sun. God spends a day making light (before making the stars) and separating light from darkness; then, at the end of a hard day's work, and almost as an afterthought, he makes the trillions of stars.

Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

But the moon is not a light, but only reflects light from the sun. God spends a day making light (before making the stars) and separating light from darkness; then, at the end of a hard day's work, and almost as an afterthought, he makes the trillions of stars.

hhmm. . . ahem. . .lets see, forget for a moment that you know anything called sun, moon and stars. Okay? That these planetary bodies do no exist. What other phenomena in life can you substitute in their place to give meaning to the quote in Genesis 1:16 ? Think of anything. . . extend your imagination. You are about to have your own Eureka moment Atheist!

Negro_Ntns:

. . .you are worse off than that!  The gentleman was polite to use such mild term to describe your   bleep    behind. . . you were fortunate that by the time I responded to your delusional remarks yesterday other respondents had taken the air out of me with their prompt response to you. You   bleep   head, walking around like you have no damn sense.  

Dude, i dont even consider you half as intelligent as many of the morons who litter this section. As much as i dislike their input, i'd rather read half a page from toneyb than you. At least he understands a bit of what he talks about. Go stick in the sexuality section dude, above average IQ required in this section pls.

Your rating has no significance!!

Negro_Ntns:

Your rating has no significance!!

It really doesnt have to, you probably have no idea how many people pay you no mind except of course where you can function best - sexuality.

Dude, the only reason your thread got a response at all is because you gave the atheist red meat. Apart from that you really did not enunciate anything remotely intelligent.

Scoot.

You are like the professor that got caught in a brawl with the bus conductor. He kept repeating to the conductor that illiteracy blinded him from knowing that it is undignified to fight in public.

. . .what blinded the professor from restraining himself and not engaging in brawl with an illiterate? Answer that David.

You could not resist the urge to engage my mind. . . cus your ass know that I produce substance that ignite minds.

Negro_Ntns:

You are like the professor that got caught in a brawl with the bus conductor.  He kept repeating to the conductor that illiteracy blinded him from knowing that it is undignified to fight in public. 

. . .what blinded the professor from restraining himself and not engaging in brawl with an illiterate?   Answer that David. 

You could not resist the urge to engage my mind. . . cus your ass know that I produce substance that ignite minds. 

Read this post all over again . . . try comparing the quality of your posts to those from Toneyb.

What a disgrace.

Davidylan,

Oh, I see. . .hmmm, you are equating wordsmithing as intelligence. You have brain power, .you are articulate and fluent in wordsmithing David but your mind is shallow. Unfortunately, as many times as you have been told by myself and many other people that have interacted with you. . .it still has not dawned on you that the brain is like a slate.

It serves at the mercy of time. What is written in it can be erased and replaced by something else tomorrow. It is called brainwash. This is what you are. . . a slate! You are dissillusioned into calling yourself intelligent. What makes you intelligent when everything you write is sourced from wiki and google? Where is your independent input? Where is the resourcefullness of your so called 'intelligent" mind?

I have mind power and you know it. . . you get a thrill from reading and engaging me mentally. People like me do the scribbling in the brain of people like you. We screw you up. . .influence and herd you in the direction and trend we desire for you to go, . but you are too busy gallivanting around the globe parading in the elite circle of intelligentsia to notice that you are being herded. In fact. . . go back and review posts from our interactions you will see where in a couple of occassions I tactfully turned the table on you and your gullible mind just kept on repeating that Negro is unitelligent. . .just like the professor and the conductor. ;

The train already left the station my friend! Why aren't your circle of intelligentsias keeping your mind occupied. . why you gotta come find my posts to nourish your mind? You are a sheep. . . and you dont even know it. Poor David.

davidylan:

Science has no answers for cancer

Does the bible have any answer for cancer? Or is it one of those diseases caused by the wicked evil spirits and demons that need prayers and olive oil to cure? Why do you keep embarassing yourself like this? The fact that science has no cure for cancer today does not mean it will not have an answer for it tommorow. Let us know if your religion or any other religion out there has the answer to cancer.

mazaje:

Does the bible have any answer for cancer? Or is it one of those diseases caused by the wicked evil spirits and demons that need prayers and olive oil to cure? Why do you keep embarassing yourself like this? The fact that science has no cure for cancer today does not mean it will not have an answer for it tommorow. Let us know if your religion or any other religion out there has the answer to cancer.

The bible has never claimed to have a cure for cancer and i doubt any christian with a brain makes such an assertion. The problem is that you and your ilk trumpet science as being the be all and end all . . . unfortunately science itself has no answers to a large majority of burning questions today.

Your argument (or lack of it to be honest) is poor . . . i asked if science had an answer for cancer and your response is to ask if the bible has got one?

Negro_Ntns:

Davidylan,

Oh, I see. . .hmmm, you are equating wordsmithing as intelligence.  You have brain power,  .you are articulate and fluent in wordsmithing David but your mind is shallow.  Unfortunately, as many times as you have been told by myself and many other people that have interacted with you. . .it still has not dawned on you that the brain is like a slate. 

It serves at the mercy of time.  What is written in it can be erased and replaced by something else tomorrow.  It is called brainwash.  This is what you are. . . a slate!  You are dissillusioned into calling yourself intelligent.  What makes you intelligent when everything you write is sourced from wiki and google?  Where is your independent input?  Where is the resourcefullness of your so called 'intelligent" mind?

I have mind power and you know it. . . you get a thrill from reading and engaging me mentally.  People like me do the scribbling in the brain of people like you.  We screw you up. . .influence and herd you in the direction and trend we desire for you to go,  . but you are too busy gallivanting around the globe parading in the elite circle of intelligentsia to notice that you are being herded.  In fact. . . go back and review posts from our interactions you will see where in a couple of occassions I tactfully turned the table on you and your gullible mind just kept on repeating that Negro is unitelligent. . .just like the professor and the conductor.   ;

The train already left the station my friend!  Why aren't your circle of intelligentsias keeping your mind occupied. . why you gotta come find my posts to nourish your mind?  You are a sheep. . . and you dont even know it.  Poor David.

my friend, even wordsmithing is beyond you . . . pls scoot. Even the atheists sound way over your league.
You're trying too hard.

davidylan:

The bible has never claimed to have a cure for cancer and i doubt any christian with a brain makes such an assertion. The problem is that you and your ilk trumpet science as being the be all and end all . . . unfortunately science itself has no answers to a large majority of burning questions today.

Your argument (or lack of it to be honest) is poor . . . i asked if science had an answer for cancer and your response is to ask if the bible has got one?

Science and scientist have never claimed to know or have answers to everything, in fact a lot of scientist acknowledge that science is dynamic and changes all the time as new knowledge is gained, so science does not claim to know everything, scientist admit that we know very little about some things. . . . . Personally I trust science and some of its finding because the philosophy of science is that you can postulate explanations which may be tested by observation or experimentation or you can postulate explanations which may only be deduced to be correct but which have a high order of probability of being correct. This is not the same with religion, religion just makes up claims without providing any evidence for it and wants to be protected from criticisms, for example religions propose that that there is another world,  a supernatural world, where beings who are just spirits live,  . . . .We are told this by various holy books and these teachings are repeated and repeated over the generations across various cultures that this is true even though no evidence for this claim has ever been provided. . . .

Science would like to see something more than conjecture about a supernatural world,Yet there is nothing tangible to be provided by the proponents of religion. Ultimately I believe that there is nothing  in common with religion and science at least until a religion comes up with something that suggests their worldview, including the supernatural is a possibility. Until then religion and science are opposed in view.

toneyb:


Every light, If it hasn't you fellow christian apologist will not be trying endlessly to use it to prove the existence of the god you subscribe to. You were able to know about the christian narrative only because science was involved,the colonialists that came with the message of christianity used ships, navagating systems, to get to us, they used science(books, ink, printers) so that a copy of the bible can get to you. You are a christian today only because some science was used at one stage or the other in propagating the message to you, and yet you still ask these very embarassing questions. Science REMAINS the only hope for humanity.

As you have pointed out the religionist cry all day about science and are very afraid of it because they know it is always exposing their myths for what they are. I laugh when our resident "scientist" talks about science not having answers for cancer as if his own mythical believes has any clue as to what cancer is. . . . For example, no ancient writings/myth discussed disease-causing germs, the atom, gravity, where extinct animal fossils could be found, what was on other continents not yet discovered, what was on other planets, what would eventually be seen on the moon, or what would be found inside the human body--cells, nerves, bacteria, etc. All we have are stories about how god or gods lived inside of boxes, how they lead people through wars by killing and destroying their enemies and soaking their cloth with the blood of humans or how sin came into the earth because some people that did not have any knowledge of right or wrong eat from a tree, we have other stories of a man dividing the moon into two and making it bow down to him or other more bizzare stories like a tree crying because the prophet mohammed refused to speak under its shade . WHY DO PEOPLE BELIEVE IN ALL THESE MYTHS?

So as far as trying to argue Science VS Religion. It's stupidity. . . Religion is called faith for a reason. . . .cannot be rationalized with. Science does its job, It creates a framework for understanding what goes on around us. . . . . . . It explains things in a common language so that anyone can digest what is being said and draw a reasonably common set of conclusions about what it state or professes. . . . Religion on the other hand is all about making baseless claims that have no basis in reality about fighting stars, falling stars, offending imaginary deities, dying and going to blissful places or horrible places all with no evidence at all, empty promises of some being lucky to have been chosen by some imaginary deity and others condemmed, nonsense claims and stories and lies that just have no basis in reality at all. . . . .Science is the only hope for humanity because even the religious people are now depending on science or trying to use it to show that their deities are real. . . .