.

Nice tips.

^^ Thanx. But how about a tip or two in the same vein? It doesn't have to be detailed, but enough. I will wait a bit and see how the thread goes before commenting further.

I have encountered quite a few clients who say this up front, "I want an interactive website".

Typically, they say this most likely because they have heard it somewhere and want to come off as being knowledgeable. Some developers might, as I almost did the first time I heard this, immediately think they want a "flashified" site full of animations. This isn't so. 99% of the time, based on my own experiences, "interactive" just means they want a contact form, an customized email address and an autoresponder.

Solution:
Before you put finger to keyboard, the client needs to (and if not done before hand, make them do it when you talk with them) tell you upfront all they expect from you and any bogus terms should be clearly defined so that both parties leave the table in total understanding. If need be, have them provide you with a URL of what they expect their site to be/look like.

WebMonk:

Solution: Sit the client and stress how important it is to have and agree on FULL CONTENT [/b]before you even hit a keystroke. You could even give the client a [b]Content Guide of sort. This is very helpful to the client in the sense that all he has to do is fit his content in the format you specify. Some people strongly feel that this is the designer/developer’s job. It is NOT.

Don't u think this would be delving into "two" jobs. . . . . i don't see reasons why i have to double as proof-reader for the client. i mean surely u can assist in determing what would be appropriate where but. . . . . except i'm mistaken about what u mean by "agreeing on full content"

@ruudie, 2 things:
First,
Agreeing on content means that for all material for the scrope of the project is agreed on. For instance, for a site of 4 links (Home, Services, About Us, Contact Us, etc), both parties would have argeed on what will go in those pages. Now for this example, it seems pretty straightfoward, but taking the time to go through it (either together, or via a 'Content Guide' will explain further) not only saves time in the long run, but more likely removes any extreneous materials that would have entered the project if the client just dumped it on the designer/developer - this is what I'm stressing. Now, how you can enforce this is another matter entirely, and at your discretion.

Secondly,

RuuDie:

Don't u think this would be delving into "two" jobs. . . . . i don't see reasons why i have to double as proof-reader for the client.[/b]

There no hard and fast rules, but I'm sure everyone can agree how "eyesore inspiring" a grammatical/spelling error is on a website. On the other hand, if a client hands you a 1000pagebrochure, I'm sure charging for proof reading isn't out of the question 

Though it isn't part of my job description, I don't mind, at the very least, perusing a page or 2 at random if necessary.  Why? I hate typos and grammatical errors with a passion?  Of course people won't associate such on a site with me but I sure do hate to read them.

Having said the above, I have discovered that finding such *and* telling the client about them reinforces the trust and appreciation that such a client will have in you.  On my part, I hope that it demonstrates to the client that I am not just an order taker/code monkey but that I am a true professional. And what's more? From such bonds usually sprouts a referral or 2 

hummm, you see most of them feel the web guys also works like the advertising agency where we have 10 men working on website not to talk of the guys out there because that is the way it works over there. our system in Nigeria ain't the same with them.

i like using the white guys as an example, you see they have what we called CONTENT DEVELOPERS these guys develop the content for the webby if the client don't have one. and what the client gives out is just a brief on the company. i think we should start charging for content development if we will have to do this job for them. am not a content guy but sometimes i find myself doing it. for an hotel website which i did, i did that a long time ago just for them to call me back some days back that they wanna review that webby i show them since early last year. well i just told them i have deleted it and i will come up with another prototype again. which i did and again i flushed in content to it. shit happens if we don't have good structure. Good structure in the web industry is the answer to all this bullshit.

Most of this guys feel webby is just what you learn by the roadside, it's really weird if people thinks that's how it is, because there is more to web than just designing.

smartsoft:

Good structure in the web industry is the answer to all this bullshit.
Most of this guys feel webby is just what you learn by the roadside, it's really weird if people thinks that's how it is, because there is more to web than just designing.

Yes. But that structure won't come anytime soon if we don't handle our craft with an increasing level of professionalism. That's what this thread (hopefully eventually) is all about.

Future replies are best in the format of a problem/issue and how to solve it

smartsoft:

i like using the white guys as an example, you see they have what we called CONTENT DEVELOPERS these guys develop the content for the webby if the client don't have one. and what the client gives out is just a brief on the company. i think we should start charging for content development if we will have to do this job for them.
Most of this guys feel webby is just what you learn by the roadside, it's really weird if people thinks that's how it is, because there is more to web than just designing.

truth! when discussing a project with a client its very important to bring up the issue of content dev first else you will run into trouble as most clients believe its your sole responsibility to come up with content, and traffic. in my experience its best to bill the client for the content work if he wont supply it, if you are not good with content dev (which shouldn't be ur job anyway) you can outsource that to a good writer/research person - a good undergrad will do this for you. Designers/developers should also start working like the ad agencies: 1. document everything, 2. break the project into stages - content, programming, design, integration, analytics, SEO, maintenance, etc, 3. bill each seperately, 4. develop and use a client questioniare (this should help the client focus and think about the goal of the site), 5. lastly every project should have a timeline, which is subject to the clients response to all the above.

i take time to ask my client about the goal of the project, if they don't have any i help develop one. this would keep both parties in check

It's nice to let the client know it that he/she will be the one to provide the content, actually for me that is what we've been doing, we usually wait for our client to provide the content and we use to guide them on how to come up with their content. I encourage web designer to help their client to do the same.

Thanks for the information

Nice contributions folks. How about we add new problem/solution posts though. Content is taken and "interactive' is taken

Sometimes SATIRE is a cool tool for clients to understand what webdevelopers go through. I dug up an old article of mine that I wrote when I was angry in October, and posted it tonight, then I saw this thread. You may want to read it up.

Clients too will, then, understand how complex these things can be.

It is here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-352344.0.html

@mavenbox:

Satire can be good, but must be used in a professional and enlightening manner.

The summary of that article would be to guide the client each step of the way - just as an architect would.

NOTE Maybe I didn't stress it enough, but this thread's target reader is a [size=14pt]prospective client[/size]. That means a client should come in and walk out thinking "Oh, I didn't know that", which should lead to appreciation and respect for what we do. So for all future posts, please keep the potential client in mind.

Problem:
Client expects to pay the same price, be it for a regular 5-page website, a large scale web app, cms or blog.

Possible Cause(s):
Client thinks that a website (whcih is why I hate the phrase, "web design/web designer" is all about what is seen on the screen.

Solution:
Depending on the site that is needed, the client should be educated as to what goes on, under the hood. For example, if the site will require a database, let the client know and tell them what is involved in creating a database, creating tables, how you have to ensure that the data can't be compromised, etc. If a cms, let the client know what is involved in setting things up right so that come hand over time, they are not left in the dark.

Finally, as with all things, patience is key for some clients so, don't rip your hair out if they clients don't get it the first time around.

As regards content the best place to start is to state that the company/client will provide all the content and pictures (which will be optimized for the web if need be) based on the agreement.

I agree that the average prospective client has seen enough nonsense in the newspapers from ads asking for N5,000.00 for a full company website to another boasting of N1,500.00 per year for web hosting with 24/7 customer support.

So, in most cases they base their comments on what they have been bombarded with. That is why I advocate that web developers should learn to write articles that will help correct some of these misconceptions.

These days when it seems that it would take a lot of time trying to explain anything to a prospective client I point him to 1 or 2 articles that may have covered the area in question and it works like magic.

@Afam.

Good point. But everyone is not the same. Having said that, it wouldn't be bad to plan ahead an have such articles in print, in the event of a first "Face to face" meeting.

Another Issue/Problem: Login URL on homepage
This has been a common issue. A client insists that a direct URL to the site's webmail be placed on the homepage. Of course, this is purely from a convenience point of view. After strongly advising against this, I sought the advice of a colleague and found there are more dangers to this practice. Displaying the direct URL from the homepage exposes the webmail to hacking attempts like brute-force and phishing. Not the mention having unauthorized access to confidential data.

Solution: Enlighten the Client
Sit the client and explain the dangers of such a desired but bad practice. Explain that minimizing the knowledge of where the webmail resides minimizes the risk of exposure. Ask him to weigh the convenience in one hand vs the security by hiding the webmail from normal visitors

Note:
Sometimes, some clients might site examples like yahoo (or school portals), that they DO have the webmail URL on the homepage. Explain that these are services that require some form of registration, which is why they can afford to do that, as opposed to say a company website. this is the core difference

Problem:
Client sends you a document to post on their site. You post. Some hours later, they send you an updated version to post again or say, "just take out that part". This usually happens, from my experience, after the site has been delivered.

Solution:
Client needs to know that though it might be simple to type up something in microsoft word, the process of copying/pasting (or creating a pdf for longer documents), uploading, and for the serious developers, testing to make sure everything still works, takes some time. If you consider the Nigerian factor where you probably have to turn on your generator and deal with slow connections, this can be a test in patience.

Worse case, the client should be made to understand that you don't mind doing it but it will cost some money, per update. This usually works for me. If they plead, then tell them that they are limited to just 1 more correction and they better make sure it is accurate otherwise, again, it will cost them extra the next time

What I am going to put down may be subjective but that is what I believe will help web developers.

Problem
Client wants you to do a project based on discussions but insists that you do a demo for the website especially as others that he/she discussed with did demos. I usually tell such clients that I will do a demo if I will be paid for it as my time must be accounted for.


Solution
Make it clear that indeed you can do a demo but insist on being paid for it. You don't tell Nokia to come to your house with their phone so you can test it out and if you are impressed you pay for it. Granted a lot of web developers would readily do the demo for free and your insistence on payment would most likely cost you the project but again maintaining the highest level of professional integrity in business is key to a successful business.

I came back from one of such meetings today I am told them to feel free to consider any of those that did demo for them as I would only do so if they are going to pay. On coming back, an old client asked me if I could do a project for him and wasn't even talking about price because he tasted first hand professional service over 3 years ago and this one is worth about 5 times the demo issue one.

Trust me your best clients won't give you stress and they are the ones that will help your business in the long run.

First off, I think this is one of the best threads in this section.
it exposes most of all we go through, most time you think it's only you.

yawa-ti-de:

Problem:
Client sends you a document to post on their site. You post. Some hours later, they send you an updated version to post again or say, "just take out that part". This usually happens, from my experience, after the site has been delivered.

Reminds me of a flash site i delivered, animation, and all. Infact, I had to cook some up in a graphic program before using it in the animation
only for the client to mail me, Opps! sorry, i sent you the wrong document, here is the updated version.
The updated version looks like am about to start a fresh project.

Problem: Clients use words like
is it not just to design a website, there isn't much about it. Look, I can do it just that i have been busy these days
Yes, you can try your hands on surgery too, it's easy to use blades. but will your patient wake up after the surgery?

there are many web designers all over the place, they will do it for less.
yes you are right, but watch out for the past works delivered by that developer.
great designs takes time, research, creativity and sacrifice. You pay cheap you get cheap.


Another great tip for developers:
while negotiation is inevitable, make your client see why you are charging what you are charging.
always go with the mindset that this is what this project is worth and it's almost non negotiable.

Why? this is because when you get good pay, not only will the creativity double, it will also boost your folio which will help you win greater projects
when you take the job for a price you feel isn't right, then you put it up "anyhow"

webdezzi:

I am happy you feel this way about this topic. I purposely made it sticky for, among others, your very reason.

More problems/solutions posts please.

There are othe activities that could be done or attached to the client system of op to drive people to their websites. These could be creative uploads and also external awareness or campaign. so many of these people have other problems are not connected to websites but its ALSO the RESPONSIBILITY of the WEB DESIGNER to educate and advice on how to attract traffic.
I'm not a web master but i'm in to printing of scratch cards but i refer lots of my clients to web builders. I hope i can attend the conference.
my number is 07038182502

Stop me if you have heard this before:” just start the design. I’ll give you more content as soon as i can get it” or “Just go through our 1000page brochure and see what you can use”. The problem with this is that the minute you go this way, you can almost kiss the project end goodbye. Once the developer and client don’t initially agree on the content, the project is bound to go through many revisions – with the client tweaking as he/she likes. “Change this paragraph.” “Remove that, I don’t like it”. A vicious cycle indeed

The highlighted part makes me sick lol.

This I think should provide an avenue for those who will like to specialize in the area of developing web content for intending site owners.

Problem - Domain Name & Hosting:
Registering a domain name with hosting will always be a tricky affair if not done properly. The typical scenario is for a designer to register a domain  hosting on behalf of the client. while this might be normal/expected, it has more drawbacks than benefits:

1) Unless informed (which happens rarely), beyond having a domain name, you're in the dark about your site. Most clients barely have an idea of  which hosting company is storing their files, or handling their domain.

2)  As a result of this ignorance, the client can be exploited. You can type your domain name and your site shows today, but what about tomorrow?And what if your files/database are packed along with hundreds of other sites that reside in a dusty server in someone's backyard, so a certain designer could "cut corners"? (The cheaper the designer/developer is paid, the higher this tendency - assuming they touch even your project)

3) Consider the consequences of having your site down/inaccessible [/b]because of (1) & (2). [b]You lose your files, your domain, your emails/correspondences, records (imagine if you're a big company that offers web-based value services). You can only lose so much. which brings me to:

4) Yes - Denial. [/b]If you're at (3), chances are you have seen the light and want someone else to design your site. [b]You then make the rational (but ill-fated) request of demanding access details to your site. Any quak designer on the street knows the gig is up at this point, and will most definitely refuse to release these details. [/b]The only option at this point is to create a new domain. I've seen this happen countless times. As if that's not enough, imagine [b]a searching visitor finds 2 URLs to the same company - what will they think?

Solution:

1) Starting hunting for a good Webhost. Fire them with any questions you might have, concerning what features best suit your needs. Let them explain everything for you - any good host will do this.

1B) If your domain has been hijacked, explain this to the current webhost, with relevant documentation if necessary. Explain that the developer registered it on your behalf, and seek counsel on how this issue can be resolved. If you don't know who's the host, search google for 'whois tool'. there are many free tools you can use to find out.

2) Register your domain yourself. No exceptions. Not only are you in charge of your intellectual property (which could be worth millions in the future), but you get notified before it expires - or anyone buying it from you. you get "right of first refusal".

3) In the event you were unlucky to have your domain "locked down" by some quak - either[b] have an order on it after the expiry date[/b] - or go the legal path. Its your online property!

good one, am loving this thread

Can anyone design my sites here? please get to me on prof2k5@gmail.com or reply this message

Ya, yawa is right, it's the interactivity that counts and not just flashful sites, Back end and posible client side validation, autoresponder on contact forms, and a real contact form not oone that will submit without any thing filled,

Then many shits that bring web 2.0 experience to clients is real interativity,

Back end and posible (sic) client side validation

Possible? Dude, a true professional does it all, not when they feel like it. You eliminate: bad data, possible sql attacks, etc.

True!!!

In view of no further contributions, I guess I should try setting the ball rolling again.

Problem: Clueless Clients

A major reason behind this thread(but a problem nonetheless), is the large number of people who need websites but are clueless as to how to go about it. The following is a non-exhaustive list of what could happen(and has happened) as a result of this:

1) Exploitation:
A clueless client will take anything he/she is given at first glance, provided it is appealing enough. the focus then is on the design instead of the goal/functions/purpose of the project. The developer/designer can take advantage of this scenario, but the drawbacks outweigh any short term gains.

- Exploitation goes both ways. for the sake of this arguement, lets say there's no agreement. A client can/will subject the project to numerous revisions if the project doesn't acheive the intended goals. the result is wasted time, project creep, demoralization, and bad blood.

2) No Expectations: Similar to (1) above, this refers to properly defined/measurable goals. No expectations means a client can just have a site with content and not make anything out of it. The result is a project that just shows everyone you have a website. that's it. experience as shown that this outcome tends to repeat itself - "we need a new website".

Solution (to 1 and 2):

a)DO YOUR HOMEWORK: Browse sites that appeal to you. ask yourself why. find out the functions that they have that are relevant to your business, and strip them down the most important/necessary. For instance, If you want an online store that delivers Tshirts, there's a high chance you won't need all the functions of a site like e-bay or argos. having your own list of functions not only helps the developer/designer produce a design that is based on your needs, but also forces you to keep your business logic in mind during the initial phases of the project.

b) BE PART OF THE PROJECT:
it always pays to be part of the project. Brainstorm the process flow of your website with your designer/developer, and you'll not only correct time-wasting errors/misconceptions/assumptions, but streamline the project developement and increase overall quality.

c) MEASURE: have a timeline that both you and the designer/developer are comfortable with the duration of the project. Also have a list of clearly defined/realistic objectives the project must achieve. For example, you might want 1000 people to use your site every month, but if you want to achieve that immediately the site launches, that might not be realistic. While some objectives might take time (like search engine optimization, and social branding), there has to be a realistic time metric by which it is achieved.

d) communication,communication,COMMUNICATION!!

"doubt grows by the day". If a client is in doubt for any reason, it will double everyday typical human behaviour. So within what is reasonable/professional, If a client has to try more than once to reach you, that's a minus. if you at the very least send an SMS stating you are currently not available, and will(if you can) get back to them at a specified time, that's a double plus. Nothing says peace of mind than always keeping your client informed.

This tip is wonderful. more of it. Thanks a lot.