Mujtahida:

I will ask you four questions:
1) Do you know the difference between real money and fiat money?
2)whose money do banks lend to borrowers, theirs or that of customers?
3)why are most nations in the world in debt?
4)whats the difference between MMM and the local esusu or workers contribution scheme wherein a person whose turn it is takes a lump sum from the accumulated contribution of other participants?

Number 4
Local Esusu or Alajo does not give you a 30% interest on your contributions.

They work solely on the principle of helping people have bulk cash for more significant purchases. My 1k may not go a long way in acquiring the new hair dryer for my salon and perhaps if I have the money in hand, I will spend it unwisely. If I contribute same for 3 mo this, 90k becomes a more tangible amount to do something "big".

So, can you tell us where the 30% for this comes from? From fellow esusuians or where?

Mujtahida:

I will ask you four questions:
1) Do you know the difference between real money and fiat money?
2)whose money do banks lend to borrowers, theirs or that of customers?
3)why are most nations in the world in debt?
4)whats the difference between MMM and the local esusu or workers contribution scheme wherein a person whose turn it is takes a lump sum from the accumulated contribution of other participants?

Number 2
On a simple level, banks take your deposits at a lower interest rate and offer it as a loan to someone else at a higher interest rate. The wide margin between these rates is what banks profit on after removing costs for administration.

Now, for MMM, my understanding is that you provide help and in return you get help of an equivalent amount plus a 30% interest. Pardon me if these are not the exact steps.
The person you provided help to is not required to return the money with any interest on top. No one gives any interest for the help they receive. On the contrary, they receive a 30% bonus for providing help.

Therein lies the dilemma or thing that separates a classic bank from MMM. You have a 30% deficit on every transaction every month. This does not include the cost of administration. How is this a sustainable business model?

battleaxe:


Number 2
On a simple level, banks take your deposits at a lower interest rate and offer it as a loan to someone else at a higher interest rate. The wide margin between these rates is what banks profit on after removing costs for administration.

Now, for MMM, my understanding is that you provide help and in return you get help of an equivalent amount plus a 30% interest. Pardon me if these are not the exact steps.
The person you provided help to is not required to return the money with any interest on top. No one gives any interest for the help they receive. On the contrary, they receive a 30% bonus for providing help.

Therein lies the dilemma or thing that separates a classic bank from MMM. You have a 30% deficit on every transaction every month. This does not include the cost of administration. How is this a sustainable business model?

Your responses are well thought out. So read your first paragraph. Don't you see the magic of fractional reserve banking wherein banks create money out of thin air through charging interest on loans from money which they do not have in their vaults and lending it back to customers at a higher interest rates and through this method cast the yoke of debt and slavery on all us? Would you mind reading the articles on this links:http://positivemoney.org/how-money-works/how-banks-create-money/
http://www.simplefs.co.uk/press-release/fractional-reserve-baniking.asp
MMM is not a business. It is a peer to peer donation system. You provide money to me today and I provide money to you today. It is a like a carousel, a revolving system that relies on more people coming into the pool of providers. So long as people keep coming in to the pool the system is sustainable. Even your banks depend on customers not coming all at once at the same time to demand for their money.

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battleaxe:


Number 4
Local Esusu or Alajo does not give you a 30% interest on your contributions.

They work solely on the principle of helping people have bulk cash for more significant purchases. My 1k may not go a long way in acquiring the new hair dryer for my salon and perhaps if I have the money in hand, I will spend it unwisely. If I contribute same for 3 mo this, 90k becomes a more tangible amount to do something "big".

So, can you tell us where the 30% for this comes from? From fellow esusuians or where?

Granted that mmm might not exactly match the esusu model but you know (at least I have participated in one in my office) that there are models wherein I take the combined contribution of other participants at a set period of time. In this model the money I take as coming from the combined contribution of other participants is way way more (more than 30%) than the money I contributed as an individual. What MMM has done matches this model. It has only reduced the frequency at which people receive money to 30days and it can afford to do so because the pool of persons involved due to the use of the Internet to connect a vast number of people is larger than the number of people in an office or a neighbourhood and it gives a 30% growth on your money. I do not see anything intrinsically wrong with this. It's all about sharing and getting rewarded for it within 30days. Have you heard of vampire bats? They have an interesting behaviour. Vampire bats live on blood which they suck off from other animals when they go out hunting at night. The thing is this, on a given night if a particular bat could not, for one reason or the other get his ration of blood he must directly suck the blood of his other vampire bats if not he will die. Interesting enough, if a particular bat, hungry for blood begs his other bat for blood and he is refused the refuser is taken note of by the beggar and the beggar moves on to another bat and begs, hoping for kindness and consideration. If the bat survives based on sucking the blood of another generous bat who was willing to share and then on another hunting night it gets lucky to suck blood from say a buffalo and the one who refused to give him blood the other night is unlucky and then later approaches him he will not share with the refuser. Basically vampire bats live and have learnt to live by being generous and sharing not because they want to be generous but because their economy demands that if you do not share, you never can tell when you just might be in need. So for vampire bats substitute human beings and for blood substitute money and mind you every money you make is flowing out from someone's else's pocket. So MMM is all about sharing. Some say it's robbing Peter to pay Paul but Paul has not complained because eventually Paul too gets paid.

wezzyjasified:

bukola so u want me to do crowd rising n leave mmm?
now I know u don't know what's up..so crowd rising is better and saver than mmm abi?
with mmm, put ur money n watch it grow but crowd rising, put ur money n look for who will pay u or else u wait till eternity

It's not compulsory you bring in people, the system will automatically match you up. You'd better change your mind pending the time MMM comes back to life (that's if it would).

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at least ATM machines go get cash for us to withdraw..

imagine since Mmm come.
one out of 5 ATM machines will be dispensing cash alone..
with crash loading..
money will be in the bank baby....

I de read some chats..

Some people say dem drop 2 million

Others 5 million


While some 1 million..



Pls I need an English graduate to help nairalanders define the phrase meaning "spare money ""


Thank you

Donshegxy10:

I once had an account with 1960 but I don't trust them after they went under for a while.
funding of bet9ja is like passing through the eye of a needle .
nairabet is my best bookie but no thanks to @akinalabi ever since changes were made on their platform its been hard to place bet on its platform.
thanks boss.

My phone gives me options i intend using on nairabet, doesn't yours does that?. I think the best way to fund your account is through MasterCard or Verve; that is WEB PAY. Very easy and fast.

See how MMM South Africa crashed and what happened thereafter...

Do u know without guiders the Ponzi would have been running year in n out..

But the fat benefits of guiders who do not contribute money to participating customers are the ones killing the Ponzi scheme....

They get too much chai

shulamitewoman:
dats a big fat lie..i have friends there doing it

So do I it reset ask themooo. My friend was one of those that started in it first of the year and became a guider. These things are good when they start.

If u say make i wait, me i go wait oooo *singing d mmm song* after january 14, come and tell me it has crashed and i will believe you

wristbangle:


How much is the goat?

Depending on the size from 16 to 30k

Mujtahida:

I will ask you four questions:
1) Do you know the difference between real money and fiat money?
2)whose money do banks lend to borrowers, theirs or that of customers?
3)why are most nations in the world in debt?
4)whats the difference between MMM and the local esusu or workers contribution scheme wherein a person whose turn it is takes a lump sum from the accumulated contribution of other participants?

1. Yes I do. What does fiat money that have to do with your greed?
2. They source their finances from a combination of assets, equity and long term debt. There's an area of finance that deals with this. It's called working capital management. I'm worried you won't understand if I try to explain it.
3. Budget deficit, poor planning and poor working capital management
4. Uncle, esusu is not a ponzi scheme because what you put in every period of contribution is exactly what you get when it is your turn to collect. No interests, no hanky panky.

Annalise:


1. Yes I do.[/b] What does fiat money that have to do with your greed?[b]
2. They source their finances from a combination of assets, equity and long term debt. There's an area of finance that deals with this. It's called working capital management. I'm worried you won't understand if I try to explain it.
3. Budget deficit, poor planning and poor working capital management
4. Uncle, esusu is not a ponzi scheme because what you put in every period of contribution is exactly what you get when it is your turn to collect. No interests, no hanky panky.

I thought we are having a discussion. I find it insulting @the bolded. And you don't know me. So why the aspersion? Anyway I will laugh because greed is just a manifestation of human selfishness which we all display. Some are greedy for money, some for love, some sex, some for fame, some for power, some for attention, some for fashion etc. I don't judge and criticise. It is what it is-human nature. That's all. If perchance the banks were to offer say 10% interest and you put your money there you won't call yourself greedy would you? I have reasons why I put my money in MMM which you have no idea or clue about. I laugh because I know human nature. Moreover you did not answer the question.
I did not only mention esusu. I mentioned another model. You left that out.
Almost all the nations of the world are in debt and you ascribe it to budget deficit, poor planning and poor working capital management. Auntie you are well schooled in politically correct economics. But I doubt if you are well educated on the real underpinnings of global finance. It's a labyrinth. Discuss with me, don't cast aspersions.

Annalise:


1. Yes I do. What does fiat money that have to do with your greed?
2. They source their finances from a combination of assets, equity and long term debt. There's an area of finance that deals with this. It's called working capital management. I'm worried you won't understand if I try to explain it.
3. Budget deficit, poor planning and poor working capital management
4. Uncle, esusu is not a ponzi scheme because what you put in every period of contribution is exactly what you get when it is your turn to collect. No interests, no hanky panky.

Sorry I just re-read your reply and saw that you you said you know the difference between fiat money and real money. The point I want to make is that with fiat money which is backed up by nothing because it is money made by decree, by law and issued by the central banks in the respective nations of the world money is simply printed and more money is created out of thin air when they charge interest on loans because for each asset a bank creates it creates a matching liability. Debt money just circulating round and round. This is classic ponzi scheme. And in the long run fiat money always fails. History proves that it has failed and it is failing now. Globally the nations of the world are all mired in debt not solely because of bad management and budget deficit. I did not see any difference between the banks and MMM. I choose one out of the two ponzi schemes. Call me greedy. Na you sabi. Cheers

My hard earned 100k.Ewo!Abasi mbok,na my younger bro make me join MMM.

Mujtahida:

Sorry I just re-read your reply and saw that you you said you know the difference between fiat money and real money. The point I want to make is that with fiat money which is backed up by nothing because it is money made by decree, by law and issued by the central banks in the respective nations of the world money is simply printed and more money is created out of thin air when they charge interest on loans because for each asset a bank creates it creates a matching liability. Debt money just circulating round and round. This is classic ponzi scheme. And in the long run fiat money always fails. History proves that it has failed and it is failing now. Globally the nations of the world are all mired in debt not solely because of bad management and budget deficit. I did not see any difference between the banks and MMM. I choose one out of the two ponzi schemes. Call me greedy. Na you sabi. Cheers

But MMM use the same fiat money you claim to be a ponzi, so you selected ponzi upon ponzi,

Lion654321:


But MMM use the same fiat money you claim to be a ponzi, so you selected ponzi upon ponzi,

That's the point. You choose your own ponzi scheme. I choose mine. Even the much touted democracy is a scam, perhaps the greatest scam alongside religion. Not many people know today that the founding fathers of America were opposed to Democracy which to them was the same as mob rule.

Mujtahida:

That's the point. You choose your own ponzi scheme. I choose mine. Even the much touted democracy is a scam, perhaps the greatest scam alongside religion. Not many people know today that the founding fathers of America were opposed to Democracy which to them was the same as mob rule.

Joke aside, what we have always called scam in Africa is what has opened our eyes, if democracy has not come, what will be using, one king and his generations ruling for ever called blue blood. Religion which most people call scam brought education to africa, tell me which schools were built with out the churches or mosques at first. We will still be living in caves and thatched homes. Check out Koma people. Also banks too helped safe guard money or decide market regulations. If not it what were the terms of trade then. It was always a survival of the strongest. One town with its might raid the weak towns, take every one captive.
This has informed my decision to always think out things for myself not what one who becomes depressed with a system will use queens english to say and write about. hence my calling steve hawkins and charles darwin theories crap saying the world just happened like, why has it not been happening since then or why has apes stopped changing.
MMM is not legalized(made to steal and right now, it is having issues, as the talk of putting moe will never sustain it, becuase when the more are to be paid who pays?), hence the reason it called ponzi, fiat money is legalized but people tweak the system to steal and cheat

Lion654321:

Joke aside, what we have always called scam in Africa is what has opened our eyes, if democracy has not come, what will be using, one king and his generations ruling for ever called blue blood. Religion which most people call scam brought education to africa, tell me which schools were built with out the churches or mosques at first. We will still be living in caves and thatched homes. Check out Koma people. Also banks too helped safe guard money or decide market regulations. If not it what were the terms of trade then. It was always a survival of the strongest. One town with its might raid the weak towns, take every one captive.
This has informed my decision to always think out things for myself not what one who becomes depressed with a system will use queens english to say and write about. hence my calling steve hawkins and charles darwin theories crap saying the world just happened like, why has it not been happening since then or why has apes stopped changing.
MMM is not legalized(made to steal and right now, it is having issues, as the talk of putting moe will never sustain it, becuase when the more are to be paid who pays?), hence the reason it called ponzi, fiat money is legalized but people tweak the system to steal and cheat

Like I said you choose your ponzi scheme. The same religion that you have just sang an hosanna of praise to is responsible for carnage, for destruction, for stifling progress not to talk of the unspeakably deep spiritual suffering it has caused and is causing in the lives of millions of men. Study history, study the dark ages. It cuts both ways. The same MMM you guys have drawn out your swords against so many will say it has helped them. And it always makes me angry when you guys say it is not legalised. It is not legalised but which law does it violate? I feel like saying you are ignorant and misinformed (forgive me. I don't like demeaning people online but I am saying just how I feel right now). So your standard of what is right or wrong is based on legality? My God! What is law I ask you? This is my profession. Is law the same as morality? Is homosexuality not legalised in the US and other parts of the world. Are you saying you will accept it in Nigeria if- as I surely know that in time it will- it is legalised? Do you know that prostitution is legalised in some countries, do you know we have a law that regulates gambling and lotteries in Nigeria? Look at you talking about terms of trade in the past determined by the strongest against the weakest. Go and study abeg. Is it not the same today? Why so many wars today? What has been the historical purpose of war? Is it not for geographic and economic conquest? Even many Americans acknowledge the fact that theirs is a war economy, an economy that depends on war booty. Take away the veneer of sophistication and civility that we moderns cloak ourselves with and look deep. Go and watch the youtube videos of George Carlin, Edward Griffin. I can go on and on. Do you know how many American presidents of the past waged concerted wars against banks and banksters? do you know how many of them were assassinated for that reason? You guys just keep talking, feeling smug and secure in your little bubble. It seems to me that there are two kinds of ponzi schemes - the secured and the unsecured. Banks and other financial institutions carrying on fractional reserve banking are secured by government and given legitimacy by law while schemes like MMM are not secured. So if for example the government decides today to legitimise MMM would you do it? Open your eyes. What is the land use Act of 1978 but a law that gave government by fiat all the land in this country. Do you know the deep implication of such a law? So what if the government wakes up one morning and decides to pass a law that makes it the owner of all the cars in this country would you accept such a law? Didn't you hear Fela talk about authority stealing? Did you hear David in the Psalms say in my despair I said all men are a lie! Paul said let God be true and every man a lier. Don't let me start opening things up for you because you won't believe nor accept them. Just enjoy your illusions as I do mine but don't try to justify or praise yours over mine. Cheers

Annalise:


Bruh.. Banks are not ponzi schemes. They are incorporated companies who have board of directors and shareholders that vote. These are the ways a bank makes money apart from interest: Equity ( shareholders and increase in share prices which increases goodwill and capitalisation), assets like receivables and cash. Sale and leaseback of fixed assets, finance and mortgage transactions, treasury bills and discounted securities, government grants, foreign exchange gains, etc. These are ways that banks are different from ponzi schemes. A ponzi scheme can't create a balance sheet because there are no assets. No liabilities. No equity. The asset is the same as the liability and also the same as the capital. If a bank goes under due to liquidity problems, you look at its assets and start selling them off to pay back investors. You start with the creditors and the shareholders are usually the last because they bare the most risk. If a ponzi scheme goes under, that's the end. No assets to sell, no identifiable creditors. I have never heard of a bank going under and not being able to settle at least, it's creditors. If this happens, then there is extensive fraud in the financial statements and someone usually ends up in prison.

Take a look at this
Take a look at this interview here https://www.caseyresearch.com/cm/project-fedcoin-presentation#
Or read the transcript here https://www.caseyresearch.com/cm/project-fedcoin

Mujtahida:

Like I said you choose your ponzi scheme. The same religion that you have just sang an hosanna of praise to is responsible for carnage, for destruction, for stifling progress not to talk of the unspeakably deep spiritual suffering it has caused and is causing in the lives of millions of men. Study history, study the dark ages. It cuts both ways. The same MMM you guys have drawn out your swords against so many will say it has helped them. And it always makes me angry when you guys say it is not legalised. It is not legalised but which law does it violate? I feel like saying you are ignorant and misinformed (forgive me. I don't like demeaning people online but I am saying just how I feel right now). So your standard of what is right or wrong is based on legality? My God! What is law I ask you? This is my profession. Is law the same as morality? Is homosexuality not legalised in the US and other parts of the world. Are you saying you will accept it in Nigeria if- as I surely know that in time it will- it is legalised? Do you know that prostitution is legalised in some countries, do you know we have a law that regulates gambling and lotteries in Nigeria? Look at you talking about terms of trade in the past determined by the strongest against the weakest. Go and study abeg. Is it not the same today? Why so many wars today? What has been the historical purpose of war? Is it not for geographic and economic conquest? Even many Americans acknowledge the fact that theirs is a war economy, an economy that depends on war booty. Take away the veneer of sophistication and civility that we moderns cloak ourselves with and look deep. Go and watch the youtube videos of George Carlin, Edward Griffin. I can go on and on. Do you know how many American presidents of the past waged concerted wars against banks and banksters? do you know how many of them were assassinated for that reason? You guys just keep talking, feeling smug and secure in your little bubble. It seems to me that there are two kinds of ponzi schemes - the secured and the unsecured. Banks and other financial institutions carrying on fractional reserve banking are secured by government and given legitimacy by law while schemes like MMM are not secured. So if for example the government decides today to legitimise MMM would you do it? Open your eyes. What is the land use Act of 1978 but a law that gave government by fiat all the land in this country. Do you know the deep implication of such a law? So what if the government wakes up one morning and decides to pass a law that makes it the owner of all the cars in this country would you accept such a law? Didn't you hear Fela talk about authority stealing? Did you hear David in the Psalms say in my despair I said all men are a lie! Paul said let God be true and every man a lier. Don't let me start opening things up for you because you won't believe nor accept them. Just enjoy your illusions as I do mine but don't try to justify or praise yours over mine. Cheers

So you'd defend a scam simply because it worked for some and failed others? Where's the honour in your profession? A scam that has been in existence for over 27 years and has crashed in countries that are bigger than Nigeria. I believe the least we could do is warn people about it. But no, we'd rather point fingers and say, "hey there's been other scams eg banks etc. At least this one works for me" Where's the glory in that?

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fkdmods:






Una don see una life? Sebi you guys de yab me talk say MMM na the be all and end all? Nigerians are no different from children who you have to constantly remind to think before acting. Even if they do think, they will never come to rational conclusions because their experiences are limited and are uninformed. What poverty and hunger will cause enh?

So? MMM is back... have you heard? against your myopic and badbellelistic wish... ntoor