I LOVE THIS VIARO GUY! A MAN AFTER MY OWN HEART!! LOL

And once again ***crickets chirped*** until they tried to change the topic,

'Say 'with Allah is the perfect proof of arguement, had He so willed, He would indeed ve guided you all' Quran 6:149

Who re u ?

@Deep Sight: Since Isiah is in the Old Testament, and according to the proponents of New Testament, this very Old Testament has been reduced to a single Verse of "love God and neighbor", so please tell me how you fit "CIRCLE" to me Egg shape, or the shape of anything trimentionally spherical? Whats a circle and can it be meant to mean Spherical, except that it is qualified? Please show us the qualifier, so that we know that Circle from Isiah was just a partial description?

@Viaro:« #12 on: Today at 09:20:24 AM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just so that you don't run off to the arabian dessert again, please answer this question I asked you earlier in post #6 -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abuzola, what is a rational observer to think of this statement -

* how does 'the earth like a carpet spread out' resemble en egg-shape?

Here in America, if you went to a decent grocery Store, you may find, pear, apple, and other delicate fruits covered with a white light paper (WAXPAPER) which "spread out" to cover the fruit so that it is not bruised up, losing value when the customers pick them up until they are purchased. If paper is then used in the Quranic verse as what earth is like as a "paper" spread out, a group who have never seen wax paper used to wrap delicate spherically shaped fruit will be scratching their head. Is the uppermost crust of the earth not relatively thin to the diameter or radius of the earth, like carpet (Like is the operative word here) is to the floor of the house?

That is the simple question to answer without your usual one-finger sentences of verbal attacks! Since you are very scientific and mathematical, . .
please show us the correlation between an egg-shape and a flat carpet.
That would be a trance in the 25th dimension! Happily waiting.

There is no place in the Quran that Flat Carpet is mentioned to describe what is similar to the earth! If you find it VIARO, show it, otherwise, you have to accept that if you put carpet, a supple material which normally takes the form of what it covers, you should be able to see from your mind eye that if you cover your stairwell tightly, the threads and the riserd, you will see the carpet taking the shape of the shape of the joint between the riser and thread. If it is curved out, so that it is not sharp at the edge so that people do not get injured badly in an accident, then tell us why it is not flat out, but take the shape of what it covers, if you have any matriculation other than the obviuos?

If a carpet is draped on a dome, it will take its shape! Again there is no FLAT CARPET in the Quran!

Don't mind them, like Allah said they are blind, dumb and deaf

Abuzola:

@vanity or is it viaro- in arabic spread means 'Basit' so how come your duhaha an ostrich egg turns to spread ? Huh

Hehe, Abusocks. .
I didn't know about that; although I could consult some of my muslim friends again - no harm in that, no? However, the one thing I know for a fact is that olabowale's transformation of a carpet into an ostrich egg is most hilarious. I've been laughing my sides since I saw it; but I'd wanted to close from work in my late shift before playing around to humour you guys. Sit tight and enjoy.

Hallo olabowale,

I actually should not waste any time on your weak excuses to cover up for the blunder of 'a carpet' turning into an 'egg shape'. You're trying too hard to save face, and your excuses are far too embarrassing and hilarious to imagine how you could even go the length of pandering such silly suggestions for your 'carpet-duhaha-becomes-ostrich-egg'. But my friendly attempt to reply your misgivings is just to humour people who would stop at nothing to further their disingenuous enterprise as you're doing for your friend Abuzola.

First, let me deal with your previous bit in post #22, which is either an obvious oversight or a queer pretence not to have seen it answered already:

olabowale:
How can the Christians ignore the 4 corners of the earth, yet have the audacity to say spreading means or almost indicating the same 4 corners, or something like that?

How can you complain in that manner after my having discussed the meaning of that phrase in posts #1, #2, and #3?? No, Christians did not ignore the meaning of that phrase, and I also went so far as to show that other people outside the Bible have used the exact same phrase without meaning it to be in reference to a flat earth! What do you understand by this example taken The American Heritage® Dictionary of Idioms by Christine Ammer -

      'Athletes came from the four corners of the earth to compete in the Olympics.'

Now, does that example mean that "athletes came from a flat earth to compete in the Olympics?"  C'mon you muslims, you surely can do better than pretending you cannot understand what everyone else understands - unless your comments were a deliberately miscalculated attempt to be humourous on your part. Even from such a respectable source as The American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms, nobody confuses the phrase as meaning a flat earth! . . so why is it that only muslims with arabic verbose are confusing what everyone clearly understands?

Hiss, go and consult ur search engine and stop lying of one friend

Now, as to your other excuses, it is needless to go through them bit by bit - because you're recycling the same tales over and over again and getting nowhere. A penny for your hardwork. I'll just rather outline your passionate counter-arguments neatly, so we don't lose the kernel of the discussions here:

olabowale:

and as to Viaro's assertion to mean that carpet has to be flat like a floor in your living room when its spread out, is completely off the mark! Proof: Carpet takes the shape of what you spread it upon. if on a mound or mole, it takes that very shape because it is a form of host shape taking thing, similar to clothing on this matter.

So, dear sir, the best "proof" for your Quran 79:30 on the issue of 'carpet-and-egg-shape' is that 'the carpet takes the shape of what you spread it upon', huh? That's the best you can do, yes? Lol, that is quite funny, sir. Go and spread your carpet on a mahogany tree and let's see how true your excuses are! You are one serious comedian! So, tell me, olabowale. . did allah spread the earth on an ostrich egg or what? You guys are too funny to even think through what you argue. I just regret having not noticed how funny you can be when I first said you should never engage me in discussions.

Besides, no one would think of spreading a carpet on any thing or place other than on a flat plain. Proof? Simple: because carpets are not made to be spread on ostrich eggs! Nada. . zilch. The only people who want to spread carpets on ostrich eggs are those who reason like you! But I shall come back to this point soon enough. . . hahaha!!

Dear olabowale, please forgive any typos in my replies. . I'm laughing too hard at your comments!

olabowale:
The Kurks have a rug/carpet made of silk, and by Allah you can almost want to wear in or at least as a quilt or cover yourself with it in bed, especially in winter. So to assume that carpet is spread out means flat without considering that it is flat only upon the shape of what it covers as it is spread out on it, is silly and deceitful if the proponent knows the truth, but insists in telling this fabble, easily detected!

Okay, by 'Kurks' I reckon you might've meant 'Turks'. No worries at all - we all have typos.

However, your story-telling has served me one useful purpose, which is to disturb my muslim friend for answers concerning the sort of remarks coming from you guys here. That is why I'm so glad that, although he's not so inclined to entertain the embarrassing statements you make, yet he educated me a bit about Turkish cultures, artifacts and paraphernalia. In that way, I learnt about one of those carpets/rugs of the Turks: it is called 'kilim' (or 'kelim', 'gelim' or 'gilim'). They are the most recognized group of flat-woven rugs made in Turkey, Kurdistan, Iran and western Turkestan.

Whatever you may argue for the carpets/rugs of the Turks, a few facts which cannot be controverted are these:

* #1 - they are not spread on ostrich eggs;

* #2 - nor are they produced to be spread on any type of eggs;

* #3 - nor are they made for any other purposes than to be spread
on flat surfaces or plains;

* #4 - carpets/rugs are not made to be worn on the bodies or used
as quilts to cover someone in bed in winter or any season!

In fact, point #4 above is remarkably ridiculous! How can you suggest that anyone could almost "want to wear" a carepet/rug, or at least use as a "quilt or cover yourself with it in bed" - then swear upon such a ridiculous statement 'by allah'? I respect whatever cultures anyone holds; but please don't insult the Turks by lying in such a manner on their behalf! Makers of Turkish carpet/rug know the purposes of the products they make - and I don't know how many Turks would be counted for using rugs to cover themselves in bed in winter! Imagine the sight! Indeed, I agree that it is both "silly and deceitful" to make the sort of twisted suggestions you offer to excuse the flat earth quranic belief for a Turkish carpet! M-e-n. .you are pricelessly hilarious indeed.

Stop disgracing urself, basit means spreading of a thing e.g carpet so stop blampheming in arabic

Now, this one is quite interesting:

olabowale:

But then, if you are not a speaker of a language how would you know the root word and meaning of an idiomatic expression, of that language when it is spoken? Abuzola says he is a specialist in that language, yet you are defending the obvious, when you could have easily research dahaha, an arabic word, for its loose meanings in English and show some matriculation by it. Ostrich as a bird could not be well known to the arabs, since even in west africa, we dont have them. eggs however are known to almost all cultures, so it is reasonable that egg is the likely  answer, rather than ostrich spreading the earth/soil!

Are you seriously joking or seriously trying too hard to complain, sir? Either ways, let me try and help you here:

(1)  your quote: 'if you are not a speaker of a language how would you know the root word and meaning of an idiomatic expression . . ' blah, blah! True, I am not a speaker of the Arabic language; and I do not know the root word and meaning of many idiomatic expressions in that language. But at the very least, I could do several things:

         *  I could contact or consult those who know how to speak the language;

         *  I could consult scholarly resources on any particular arabic word

         *  I could compare the linguistic arguments of arabic scholars on that word

         *  I could also compare and contrast between various usages of the word

         *  then I could draw a good conclusion as to know who's lying somewhere

So, dear sir, even though I do not speak the Arabic language, I do not expect to be led on gullibly by pretenders of that language who are in the habit of making dubious excuses (such as your example of Turkish carpet/rug for covering the body in winter!). More importantly, you do not expect to gull any non-Arabic speaker with the ridiculous conclusions you make on aoth with 'by allah'!


(2)  your quote: 'Abuzola says he is a specialist in that language, . .'
No sir, Abuzola is NOT a specialist in that language nor did he claim to be one! I do not expect you to make such silly claims on his behalf - unless he is quite at home to enjoy your lying on his behalf. He only claimed in post #7 to be a 'graduate' in arabic studies, quite a different thing from being a specialist in that language.

Abuzola:

Stop disgracing urself, basit means spreading of a thing e.g carpet so stop blampheming in arabic

Why are you panicking? I thought you were hooting for an ostrich egg before? Why suddenly switching over to a carpet? I asked you much earlier to show me the resemblance between a "carpet" and an "ostrich egg", you came back with the expected one-finger grumblings that said zilch!

So, please sit back and let me laugh at you both!

There, olabowale. . please let me continue. . I don't know why my dear friend Abusocks is knocking fingers like someone shivering in arabian winters!

(3) your quote: 'when you could have easily research dahaha, an arabic word . .'

Okay, I could have easily done that; but the reason why I did not bother is because others have done the research and debunked the dubious Islamic claim of making 'dahaha' into 'ostrich egg'. I posted a link for that earlier in post #10; and if you follow my reasoning above for (1), you will understand that I already compared notes and understood that such a claim of 'dahaha = ostrich egg' is patently false! If you care, here's another popular link that educates the public about the arabic word (Moroccan) for ostrich egg -

http://moroccanfood.about.com/od/glossary/g/bayd.htm

Please take some time and visit that link where you will find the arabic word for 'ostrich egg' is transliterated as 'bayd dyal na'ama'. Not only the term for ostrich egg, but others are given as well -

* bayd dyal hamaam - pigeon eggs

* bayd dyal na'ama - ostrich eggs

* bayd dyal bat - duck eggs

* bayd dyal samaan - quail eggs


Be that as it may, it is not 'ostrich eggs' or any other types of eggs that is more important in this enquiry.

Rather, I'm more interested in the collective Islamic thinking about the shape of the earth itself in accordance with how Muslim scholars have interpreted allah's quran. For this, my apologies that I would have to prefer the more authoritative Muslim voices who are widely respected within the Muslim world, than to listen to your insignificant assertions here that nobody pays any attention to. Don't go ballistic - it happens. . and it makes more sense.

WTF, you liar, all am saying is basit doesn't exist in the context of dahaha,

Abuzola:

WTF, you liar, all am saying is basit doesn't exist in the context of dahaha,

Who's lying? Did I claim that 'basit' exists in the context of 'dahaha'?

Abusocks, I never claimed any such thing. If I did, please quote me directly and let's see. Otherwise, don't panic or sweat between your arabian fingers!

Are u a male or female, why the name abusock, or are u a gay ?

I think u are conefused, why contradicting urself again

@viaro:

Go and spread your carpet on a mahogany tree and let's see how true your excuses are!  You are one serious comedian! So, tell me, olabowale. . did allah spread the earth on an ostrich egg or what? You guys are too funny to even think through what you argue. I just regret having not noticed how funny you can be when I first said you should never engage me in discussions.

Carpet is soft, not stiff, just like a soft leather. No? Have you see riding leather spread on the back of a horse, by its rider? Thats an assignment for you! AS to the Mahogany tree, get yourself a carpet and throw it on the tree, and if the tree is strong you will see the shape that the carpet will take. If the tree is weak, when it collapsed, the carpet will take the final shape of the pile of rubbles as it remain spread on it. Alhamdulillah, this is visual, so you will see it!

Now if you see sanitation haulers before, some of the containers are open, so to not let debris fly all over the place when it si being transported from the collection site to the land fill, they use tarpoline to cover the open top, tying it down at interval, and if the container is ful and has a mound on top, the tarpoline takes that shape! tarpoline is similar to carpet. No?

Besides, no one would think of spreading a carpet on any thing or place other than on a flat plain. Proof? Simple: because carpets are not made to be spread on ostrich eggs! Nada. .  zilch. The only people who want to spread carpets on ostrich eggs are those who reason like you!   But I shall come back to this point soon enough. . . hahaha!!

The earth is like an ostrich egg did not therefore translate that the earth is an ostrich egg! The spreading out of the earth is like the spreading out of the carpet! If you ever have a carpet, spread it out, and you will see that it goes/moves forward before your eyes, as it rolls out! Ths is similar to the earth since it continue without end to roll out/spreading out forward in front of your eyes!

Olabowale. .  continuing:

olabowale:
Abuzola says he is a specialist in that language, yet you are defending the obvious, when you could have easily research dahaha, an arabic word, for its loose meanings in English and show some matriculation by it. Ostrich as a bird could not be well known to the arabs, since even in west africa, we dont have them. eggs however are known to almost all cultures, so it is reasonable that egg is the likely  answer, rather than ostrich spreading the earth/soil!

I think others who have published works authoritatively on the subject can be more authentic than your posts on Nairaland; so what follows are a few authentic Muslim/islamic sources that comment on that verse (Quran 79:30) as well on what they believed the quran teaches about the shape of the earth.

Please bear in mind that I hinted in post #6 that "some people (surprisingly even some Muslims among them) argue that Islam believed in the notion of a flat earth" - and we shall see some of those sources below:

---

Source #A.

[list]Tafsir al-Jalalayn

وَٱلأَرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا

[list]"and after that He spread out the earth: He made it flat, for it had been created before the heaven, but without having been spread out;"[/list]

source:
Tafsir al-Jalalayn, trans. Feras Hamza
© 2008 Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, Amman, Jordan
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=1&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=79&tAyahNo=30&tDisplay=yes&Languageid=2
[/list]

_________________

Source #B.

[list]Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs

وَٱلأَرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا

[list](And after that He spread the earth) even then He spread it on the water; it is also said: 2,000 years after that He spread it on the water,[/list]

source:
Tafsir Ibn 'Abbas, trans. Mokrane Guezzou
© 2008 Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, Amman, Jordan
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=2&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=79&tAyahNo=30&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
[/list]


Is it not clear that more authoritative sources in the Muslim world have asserted a flat earth without ostriches and eggs that you have been trying too hard to interpolate on behalf of the quran? Please don't blame me - blame your misgivings on those Muslim sources I quoted directly! They said it was a FLAT EARTH . . on an earth that was spread on WATER. I don't know if "water" can resemble an "ostrich egg"; but I know that argument of a flat earth is what Tafsir Ibn 'Abbas argues for.


[Hint: I also asked this friend of mine if there's any such word as 'ostrich' in the quran. . . he has not replied as yet, so when he does, I shall let you know.]

Abuzola:

Are u a male or female, why the name abusock, or are u a gay ?

I'm male; and no, I'm not a gay, thank you.

My calling you Abusocks (Abu + socks) is a friendly play on your username/ID, nothing special - just as I didn't take offence when you called me "vanity", remember? Actually, I liked it and laughed out loud!

But if Abu+socks scares you, no worries. .  I won't use that again. (I'll think up something nice soon. . . something more scary than that! )

olabowale:

@viaro: Carpet is soft, not stiff, just like a soft leather. No? Have you see riding leather spread on the back of a horse, by its rider? Thats an assignment for you! AS to the Mahogany tree, get yourself a carpet and throw it on the tree, and if the tree is strong you will see the shape that the carpet will take. If the tree is weak, when it collapsed, the carpet will take the final shape of the pile of rubbles as it remain spread on it. Alhamdulillah, this is visual, so you will see it!

Now if you see sanitation haulers before, some of the containers are open, so to not let debris fly all over the place when it si being transported from the collection site to the land fill, they use tarpoline to cover the open top, tying it down at interval, and if the container is ful and has a mound on top, the tarpoline takes that shape! tarpoline is similar to carpet. No?


The earth is like an ostrich egg did not therefore translate that the earth is an ostrich egg! The spreading out of the earth is like the spreading out of the carpet! If you ever have a carpet, spread it out, and you will see that it goes/moves forward before your eyes, as it rolls out! Ths is similar to the earth since it continue without end to roll out/spreading out forward in front of your eyes!

Olabowale, please stop all this comedies! You can't kill me with laughter! Your carpet excuse is a fallacy, period! Throw it anywhere you like -

* on an arabian horse

* mahogany trees

* on water

* or, any ostrich eggs

. . dear sir, none of these excuses is going to help you out of the hole you dug for yourself. Please invent a trillion more excuses. . . including the recent "tarpoline" - it won't work! Your quran does not argue that allah spread the earth on a camel, horse, ostrich, goose, duck, mahogany tree, or anything! So, please stop wasting time looking for excuses on behalf of the quran.

@Viaro: i dont know you mother's tongue. Mine is Yoruba and no one except a yoruba person brought up in Yoruba land and culture can under that language more than me! If a word is said in yoruba language and I have never heard of it before, i will ask it to be used in a sentence. If after that, i will ask it to be used in some other expressions, like story teling or in other forms. My yoruba blood will kick in and I will definitely understand it, and i am saying this based on your statement that you are now saying that the muslim scholars are now misinterpreting what Allah intended! The majority of the people who were the first muslims under Muhammad's brand of Islam were residents of Makka and the Madina, pure arabic speakers. Do you think a Ph. D. white man  or woman from Europe or North America will under Fusat Arabic than a Bedouin from Makka or Madina and their surrounding? Can a white person understand Yoruba more than me, regardless of how long he or she resides among the Oshogbo, Oyo, or any City, town, village Oduduwa culture, Nigeria? Please be reasonable in your observation.

I will ask you to show us the word meaning "FLAT" in arabic and see if it sound like Duhaha. I will ask you to show us the word "Spread" and or the expression "spread out" if it is not Duhaha.

Finally, does it means everything spread out is flat, or rather noticeably expansive? Can you think of anything that is spread out that is not flat? Yes I can. You can hear people who are searching party being told to spread out, and this does not mean that they should lay on the ground flat, but to move away from one another so that the can "cover" what they need to cover!

All this you are doing is rambling, why not show us how basit came into that context,

tafsir means comment on, even you a xtrian can tafsir on the Quran so where da hell is the fact

To update you, olabowale. .

olabowale:
eggs however are known to almost all cultures, so it is reasonable that egg is the likely  answer, rather than ostrich spreading the earth/soil!

(Abuzola, please mark the above highlighted in red - see that olabowale is categorically refutting your earlier argument for the ostrich theory! )

Anyhow, there is a fundamental question that everyone is asking on this subject, which the quran captures well in chapter 88 verse 20 -

       "And at the Earth, how it is spread out?" [Yusuf Ali translation].

That is a pivotal question that I'd have appreciated Abuzola to answer - how is the earth spread out? Rather than recycling Abuzola's sad remarks of 'ostrich eggs', or olabowale's 'carpets/rugs from the Turks', let's hear it from the mullahs and powers that be in the Muslim world.

---

Source #C - [commentaries on the shape of the earth from various verses]

Quran 88:20 -
'And at the Earth, how it is spread out?'

[list]Tafsir al-Jalalayn[/list]

[list]وَإِلَى ٱلأَرْضِ كَيْفَ سُطِحَت[/list]

[list]commentary:
"And the earth, how it was laid out flat?, and thus infer from this the power of God, exalted be He, and His Oneness? The commencing with the [mention of] camels is because they are closer in contact with it [the earth] than any other [animal]. As for His words sutihat, ‘laid out flat’, this on a literal reading suggests that the earth is flat, which is the opinion of most of the scholars of the [revealed] Law, and not a sphere as astronomers (ahl al-hay’a) have it, even if this [latter] does not contradict any of the pillars of the Law."[/list]

[list]source:
Tafsir al-Jalalayn, trans. Feras Hamza
© 2008 Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, Amman, Jordan
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=1&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=88&tAyahNo=20&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
[/list]
____________________

Quran 91:6 -
"And the earth and Him Who spread it"
[M.M. Pickthall's translation]

[list]Tafsir al-Jalalayn[/list]

[list] وَٱلأَرْضِ وَمَا طَحَاهَا[/list]

[list]commentary:
"and [by] the earth and the One Who spread it, laid out flat"[/list]

[list]source:
Tafsir al-Jalalayn, trans. Feras Hamza
© 2008 Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, Amman, Jordan
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=1&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=91&tAyahNo=6&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
[/list]


Please olabowale, I could go on and on and on to the same point, but what is the use, reeally? We can see that contrary to your weak excuses, other more respected Muslim sources argue for a FLAT EARTH on behalf of the quran! You can join issues with them; but please don't come back complaining, because I did not edit those commentaries but rather quoted them precisely as they have published those works - that is why I left the links for easy access and confirmation. Among all the commentaries they articulate, we gather that -

    *  Islam has argued for a FLAT earth

    *  that this was "the opinion of most of the scholars"

    *  that it was "not a sphere as astronomers (ahl al-hay’a) have it"
        [that is, astronomers are dead wrong, but Muhammad's flat earth is correct!]

    *  that also, even there is a contradiction between astronomers and Muhammad,
        then follow Muhammad and damn the bloody, stupid astronomers!

You guys are very, very good at making viaro laugh so very much! I owe you many, many thanks!



Indeed, I've had a very good evening laughing at your jokes. . . I should add another penny for your efforts, olabowale! Islam has argued for a "flat earth"; but because Muslims are too embarrassed today to continue that 'flat-earth-Turkish-carpet' mentality, they have switched over to Abuzola's 'ostrich-eggs' one-finger litters. I've got no issues, dear sirs. .  your real problem is with Tafsir al-Jalalayn and co.

Easy. Done.

Did you read my post on tafsir at all, tafsir means comment so how is that a big deal

Abuzola:

Did you read my post on tafsir at all, tafsir means comment so how is that  a big deal

I did. . and answered below:

---

Abuzola:

All this you are doing is rambling, why not show us how basit came into that context,

Abuzola, are you forgetting that "basit" was not my worry? So, why are you asking me to answer roll-call for you, afterall it was you who mentioned "basit" in this thread?

First, you screamed for "ostrcih eggs", now you switch over to "basit". . . is there something seriously missing in your em, . .  socks?

tafsir means comment on,  even you a xtrian can tafsir on the Quran so where da hell  is the fact

Yes, my friend told me so - that is why I am grateful for his help in sending me the links to check out from Tafsir al-Jalalayn. But as a Christian, I cannot "tafsir" anything on the quran - it is not my style to claim a scholarship that I don't have!  I only consult my Muslim friends who have been so friendly and helpful.

@Viaro:

Olabowale, please stop all this comedies!  You can't kill me with laughter!  Your carpet excuse is a fallacy, period! Throw it anywhere you like -  
               * on an arabian horse
               * mahogany trees
               * on water
               * or, any ostrich eggs
. . dear sir, none of these excuses is going to help you out of the hole you dug for yourself. Please invent a trillion more excuses. . . including the recent "tarpoline" - it won't work! Your quran does not argue that allah spread the earth on a camel, horse, ostrich, goose, duck, mahogany tree, or anything! So, please stop wasting time looking for excuses on behalf of the quran.

the reality of my engaging your thought, and not you or your personality is because others may have the chance to read my responses against yours. You are calling people to hellfire with the obvious lies, while I will try inshaAllah to try to let people see that you are not a leadership that will benefit them, at the end!

And when the Chrsitians cant defend their indefensibles, they resort to what you have done, a wholesome blanket, say carpet (it covers everything) of denial is hulled up against the truth!

Yes, my friend told me so - that is why I am grateful for his help in sending me the links to check out from Tafsir al-Jalalayn. But as a Christian, I cannot "tafsir" anything on the quran - it is not my style to claim a scholarship that I don't have! I only consult my Muslim friends who have been so friendly and helpful.

Did your muslim friend knows that you said his Lord said the earth is flat, and all the inuendos you have suggested? I wanna know what he has to say, happy or what?

olabowale:

@Viaro: i dont know you mother's tongue. Mine is Yoruba and no one except a yoruba person brought up in Yoruba land and culture can under that language more than me! If a word is said in yoruba language and I have never heard of it before, i will ask it to be used in a sentence. If after that, i will ask it to be used in some other expressions, like story teling or in other forms.

I am not Yoruba, although I respect their culture and language. But hey, how does Yoruba come into a discussion about your Arabian "carpet/rug of the Turks = ostrich eggs", huh? You're telling far too many stories, and I've run out of pennies to toos for your efforts. So, please take a hint and save the rest.

I will ask you to show us the word meaning "FLAT" in arabic and see if it sound like Duhaha. I will ask you to show us the word "Spread" and or the expression "spread out" if it is not Duhaha.

I am not an Arabic speaker; nor are you Arabian-born. Like I said earlier, you cannot gull me or anyone with your tall tales hopping from dahaha/lahaha or whatever to carpets of the Turks and spreading them anywhere from mahogany trees to horse backs to tarpolines. Please er, please. . you're beginning to panic - and that is not a good sign of stability.

The one thing you're missing here is that your worries should be directed to "most of the scholars" in Islam whose works I have quoted without editing anything from them! THEY ARE THE ONES who argued for a FLAT earth on behalf of the quran. . . THEY ARE THE ONES who damned the astronomers. .  THEY ARE THE ONES who gave your Muslim world the Tafsirs. .  THEY ARE THE ONES who are still shaping the thoughts and consciences of Muslims who hop from Turkish carpets to ostrich eggs!

So, if you have any confusion on what they have translated, please contact their publishers. I just happen not to be one of them, sorry.

Finally, does it means everything spread out is flat, or rather noticeably expansive? Can you think of anything that is spread out that is not flat? Yes I can.

Dear sir, are you taking up your grumblings against viaro, or against the Muslim scholars who concluded that the earth is flat? Don't be confused here. .  let me remind you again:

          As for His words sutihat, ‘laid out flat’,

         this on a literal reading suggests that the earth is flat,

         which is the opinion of most of the scholars of the [revealed] Law

         source:
         Tafsir al-Jalalayn, trans. Feras Hamza
         © 2008 Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, Amman, Jordan


There, olabowale. . please focus.  It is not "everything spread out" that your Muslim scholars are arguing - they rather categorically asserted that -

           the earth is flat,

. .  that is what is important here. So why all the panic and sweating to divert the gist here?

olabowale:

@Viaro: the reality of my engaging your thought, and not you or your personality is because others may have the chance to read my responses against yours. You are calling people to hellfire with the obvious lies, while I will try inshaAllah to try to let people see that you are not a leadership that will benefit them, at the end!

Interesting! There could be only one source that is lying - your Muslim scholars who have argued for a FLAT earth and damned the astronomers. I'm grateful that we (ie., you and I) can engage our thoughts amicably in all this; but I have not claimed any leadership anywhere since entering this thread, sir. If the Muslim sources I posted are lying, the fault is theirs, not mine. So instead of complaining, please simply visit those links and see for yourself that they have real problems - and stay there to deal with them!

And when the Chrsitians cant defend their indefensibles, they resort to what you have done, a wholesome blanket, say carpet (it covers everything) of denial is hulled up against the truth!

The "carpet/rug" thing was not a Christian problem - let everyone who reads this thread see that such an idea came from Muslims from start to finish. You have tried to defend that idea until you ran out of steam. . . now too ashamed of using it as a device, you pretend it is a "Christian" thing.

That's another serious joke! I'm looking for another penny to toss in your cup!