chijiblaze:


Maybe you'd need to spend some time in Ika-land or Ukwaliland to become fluent in the dialects but ordinarily listening to them, if you understand central Igbo language you will be able to figure out more than 80% of what Ika and Ukwuali people are saying.
And an Onye-Igbo can become quite fluent in the language within one weekend of interaction with the natives of these places.
This is notwithstanding the fact that these Ika and Ukwuali people understand central Igbo perfectly well without first studying it.

It's not true. An Onye Igbo can't understand Ika and Ukwani well. Written Ukwani sounds so much Igbo but try listen to spoken Ukwani. Igbos can only pick some words and sentences. I'm an Ika man and I've tried to communicate in Ika with Igbo friends but they always get lost. I speak Ika to them because an average Ika man can't speak central Igbo. I don't know if Ukwani can understand central Igbo but we Ikas don't understand central Igbo properly.

Cire80:
It's not true. An Onye Igbo can't understand Ika and Ukwani well. Written Ukwani sounds so much Igbo but try listen to spoken Ukwani. Igbos can only pick some words and sentences. I'm an Ika man and I've tried to communicate in Ika with Igbo friends but they always get lost. I speak Ika to them because an average Ika man can't speak central Igbo. I don't know if Ukwani can understand central Igbo but we Ikas don't understand central Igbo properly.

If you don't know central Igbo then you cannot know Ika! If you understand Ika, Ukwuali, Ikwerre or any other Igbo dialect you'll definitely understand central Igbo. Because central Igbo is the main point from which other dialects diverge. Central Igbo contains the most popular Igbo forms of wordings and speech I.e. the ones most frequently encountered in the majority of Igbo dialects.
I listen to Ika news on Delta TV and YouTube and I understand most of what they say. Same as Ikwerre on RSTV. Ukwuani is even the closest to central Igbo and much more easier to understand than Ika and Ikwerre.
I have no problem with delta-Igbo people claiming whatever origin they imagine, but when they speak their native tongue I'll understand. Because it's just Igbo language!

chijiblaze:


If you don't know central Igbo then you cannot know Ika! If you understand Ika, Ukwuali, Ikwerre or any other Igbo dialect you'll definitely understand central Igbo. Because central Igbo is the main point from which other dialects diverge. Central Igbo contains the most popular Igbo forms of wordings and speech I.e. the ones most frequently encountered in the majority of Igbo dialects.
I listen to Ika news on Delta TV and YouTube and I understand most of what they say. Same as Ikwerre on RSTV. Ukwuani is even the closest to central Igbo and much more easier to understand than Ika and Ikwerre.
I have no problem with delta-Igbo people claiming whatever origin they imagine, but when they speak their native tongue I'll understand. Because it's just Igbo language!

I'm an Ika man and I'm telling you that we don't understand central Igbo. I won't argue about your understanding Ika language or not. For you as an Easterner to understand Ika language depends on many things. It's possible you're from the Eastern clans that have kinship with Anioma and for you to watch Ika request on TV shows you may be resident in Delta and hence already conversant with Ika-Anioma terms. Most Ikas only understand some few Edo but I understand Edo to a great extent. I have the gift of understanding a language from a different related language that I know. I know some few international language and I'm able to understand other related languages from these languages.

Written Ukwani look like Igbo but spoken Ukwani is not easy to understand. I'm an Anioma man. Don't argue these things with me.

Cire80:
I'm an Ika man and I'm telling you that we don't understand central Igbo. I won't argue about your understanding Ika language or not. For you as an Easterner to understand Ika language depends on many things. It's possible you're from the Eastern clans that have kinship with Anioma and for you to watch Ika request on TV shows you may be resident in Delta and hence already conversant with Ika-Anioma terms. Most Ikas only understand some few Edo but I understand Edo to a great extent. I have the gift of understanding a language from a different related language that I know. I know some few international language and I'm able to understand other related languages from these languages.

Written Ukwani look like Igbo but spoken Ukwani is not easy to understand. I'm an Anioma man. Don't argue these things with me.

The only difference between Ukwuani and central Igbo or mainly Anambra Igbo is the intonation of speech.
I've never lived in Delta state b4. I only saw the videos on YouTube.
Ika is not like Edo in any way. Only Igbo.

chijiblaze:


The only difference between Ukwuani and central Igbo or mainly Anambra Igbo is the intonation of speech.
I've never lived in Delta state b4. I only saw the videos on YouTube.
Ika is not like Edo in any way. Only Igbo.

I've heard that Ika and Ukwuani have elements of both Igbo and Bini. This is exactly what I'm saying about Igbos ignorantly trying to claim a hybrid group as theirs and only theirs when they've got other features.

I'm an Anambra dude myself and I don't understand Ukwuani one bit.

chijiblaze:


The only difference between Ukwuani and central Igbo or mainly Anambra Igbo is the intonation of speech.
I've never lived in Delta state b4. I only saw the videos on YouTube.
Ika is not like Edo in any way. Only Igbo.

The main difference is the intonation and that is what makes spoken Ukwani very difficult to any other non Ukwani speakers difficult to understand. Saying you understand Ukwani is not true. I'm sure about that.

Ika in it's present form is can't be called an Edoid language but Igboid but it's not Igbo. I'm able to understand Edo to a great extent from my understanding of Ika language, that shows there's a relationship between both languages. Language structure is the same. Same pluralization, same anglicization. Many shared words. Many of these words are going extinct in Ika but we still know some of them that were in use only about a decades ago or two. Sometimes, an Edo sentence comes out exactly the same way it's spoken in Ika language. I can go on and on. Don't think you know more about my people than I do. I'm talking to you from a personal point of view. Thanks

. I'm able to understand Edo to a great extent from my understanding of Ika language, that shows there's a relationship between both languages. Language structure is the same. Same pluralization, same anglicization. Many shared words. Many of these words are going extinct in Ika but we still know some of them that were in use only about a decades ago or two. Sometimes, an Edo sentence comes out exactly the same way it's spoken in Ika language.

You are a liar!
No Ika man, unless Oza nogogo people( who themselves are Edo fugitives harboured by Agbor people in the past, who had been speaking their Edoid language till today) understand Edo without first learning it from the scratch like learning a new Language.

Even the closest Ika people to Edos, the Igbanke's can't understand any Edo language, but they do understand the Igbo man as far away as in Abia state at the first encounter.

Igboid:
. I'm able to understand Edo to a great extent from my understanding of Ika language, that shows there's a relationship between both languages. Language structure is the same. Same pluralization, same anglicization. Many shared words. Many of these words are going extinct in Ika but we still know some of them that were in use only about a decades ago or two. Sometimes, an Edo sentence comes out exactly the same way it's spoken in Ika language.

You are a liar!
No Ika man, unless Oza nogogo people( who themselves are Edo fugitives harboured by Ika people in the past, who has been speaking their Edoid language till today) understand Edo without first learning it from the scratch like learning a new Language.

Even the closest Ika people to Edos, the Igbanke's can't understand any Edo language, but they do understand the Igbo man as far away as in Abia state at the first encounter.

It's a fact that Ika language does have big elements of Edo and Igbo. There may be more Igbo influence but that doesn't mean it's got no relationship at all with Edo. This is exactly what I'm saying about some Igbos living up to the land-grabber stereotype and claiming people who might not actually belong to them because of some vague linguistic similarities or shared proximity, to the point where you're now telling an Ika man about his own language and discrediting its obvious Bini influence. Maka gini? Does it make you sleep better at night knowing that Ikas belong to you even if you have to lie about it?

[b]Let`s leave what happened in the Edo UK event out of this matter and come to the reality, my names are Uwabor Chukwuma Patrick and anybody that hears or sees my middle name written will quickly conclude that I am an Igbo man, that is why my primary school teacher changed Uwabor to Nwafor but I am from Igbanke in Orhiowon Local Government Area of Edo State

It used to be convenient during the old Bendel State when asked, where are you from? Agbor of-course, how will you feel when someone from Igbanke can speak with an Igbo man from Abia,Anambra,Enugu,Imo fluently and cannot relate to his brother from the same LGA . I remember my enrollment into the secondary school and I was ask state of origin and that was the year the two states came out of the then Bendel State and I remembered my Uncle had earlier told me that we are now Edo State,I quickly replied "Edo sir" but looking on my names Nwafor Chukwuma and staring at me,a Bini man behind me spoke bini to me and I said "I don`t understand" and he said "he`s from Delta" and Delta State was written for me as my state of origin back then.

Presently now where I live here in Gombe,Nigeria we the Igbanke people meets once a month and for the state meeting, we attends Delta State meeting, all these because of language barrier.[/b]

The above comment was made by an Igbanke person in the below thread by the name Ncpat
https://www.nairaland.com/1476072/igbanke-edo-state-delta-state/1

You can check his profile here:https://www.nairaland.com/ncpat

Probz:


It's a fact that Ika language does have big elements of Edo and Igbo. There may be more Igbo influence but that doesn't mean it's got no relationship at all with Edo. This is exactly what I'm saying about some Igbos living up to the land-grabber stereotype and claiming people who might not actually belong to them because of some vague linguistic similarities or shared proximity, to the point where you're now telling an Ika man about his own language and discrediting its obvious Bini influence.

It's got no relation with Edo beyond some borrowed words.
The sentence and grammar construction remain intrinsically Igbo.
It's impossible for an Igbanke person to understand any Edo sentence, beyond recognition of some borrowed Edo words they use.
Don't letc anyone deceive you.
The aboriginal Edo people in Anioma, the Oza nogogo people, until this day speak a totally Edoid language that no Agbor person understands, their Edoid language remained despite being surrounded by Igboid speaking Agbor people. Oza people only speak Ika as a second language.

[b]WHOEVER MADE THE DECISION TO LUMP IGBANKE INTO EDO STATE SHOULD BE SHOT OR HANDED OVER TO ME TO DO JUSTICE.

I attended Edo State Day 2013 on 21st September 2013, organised by Edo State National Association UK.
From the personal greetings, the music, the introduction of guests to the the Master of Ceremony, every single sentence was in Bini language.

I felt like a fish out of water. I couldn't hear or understand a single word. I felt alien to the event, an alien in the midst of my supposed fellow Edolites. A stranger in my own State! Before you admonish me for not engaging, I can tell you that I did engage but everyone was engrossed in Bini language. I don't blame them. They are the majority but I had expected some translation of some sorts but all that was said was that if you don't understand Bini, just say Amen to some spoken words that I have no clue about. This is selfishness at the highest order.

I have to say that I have nothing against Bini people and hold them in high esteem. I accord the Bini's huge respect. I have them as my friends, as in laws and as cousins but I HAVE TO SAY THAT WHOEVER MADE THE DECISION TO LUMP IGBANKE INTO EDO STATE SHOULD BE SHOT. The relationship is so unbalanced and unequal. It is very difficult to get on when you can't relate to a single spoken word. If you attend a meeting and can't understand a word, how are you meant to represent your people? How do you pick up issues that borders on your people?

It is a big shame that Igbanke have to put up with this absurdity; an alien in the company of their supposed State Indigenes. Those our people who continue to say that Igbanke is Edo are so WRONG and far removed from reality. Unless, you can speak or understand Bini, one is alienated, completely at sea and lost big time.

The relationship is synonymous to a forced marriage, so unequal, so unbalanced and so wrong!
From Gloria Adagbo, [/b]

Gloria Adagbon is an Igbophobic Igbanke woman, I belong to Igbanke Facebook page and I had known her for many Years now, she is a staunch Igbo hater and an APC supporter, yet the above was her lamentation some time ago.
If Igbanke the most Edo influenced Igboid group in Edo state can't understand Edo/ Bini language, what chance does an Anioma Person in Delta state stand?

https://www.nairaland.com/1476072/igbanke-edo-state-delta-state/1

Any Ika person( excluding Oza people, who are originally Edo people, and remain Edo speaking till today) that understands any Edoid language, learnt it from the scratch. But Ika people as far as Edo state( Igbanke) understand central Igbo on first hearing.
This is the truth as we know it.

More revelations from Igbanke people. Notice the part where the Edo inlaw addressed the Igbanke man as Owe Igbo.



[b]This is very interesting and funny to me digging into these things because it feels like when those white (half cast) people are tracing their root........lol. smiley

Well i'm not really bothered about the change of name be it Igbanke (Edo) or Igbo akiri (Igbo) because that can change pending on the region you are in, since everyone will want to call it their own way. There is another one which is Omolua (Edo) or Umuolua (Igbo) but i will prefer to stay in the middle to avoid controversy and the middle is where we really fit in which is Anioma, although that is more Igbo.

Why i will say Anioma is because Agbor is categorized as one. They actually speak Ika (delta ibo) and Igbanke & Agbor are forever united and i myself I rep Ika to the fullest as an Igbanke dude. Like i said, i see them as blood brothers irrespective of the fact that my paternal grandmother is from Agbor. Today, Agbor is considered or spoken of as Ika anioma and that is the sentiment i share.

The reality is that (for a kingdom like Igbanke), we can only know who we are if we look at Abgor, then we can also know where we are and whether we are supposed to be in Edo state or not.

Ika is subdivided just like Igbo language too, so there is slight difference btw Igbanke Ika and Agbor Ika but you will understand 100% what each person is saying. Geographically we are nearest to Agbor than any bini town. The bini might be our founding fathers based on ancestry just like they founded itshekiri but that doesn't make us Edo (Geographically).

I am a first class indigene of Igbanke from Omolua as it or Igbo akiri from Umoulua village (whatever). I'm in my late 30s and what i have always known our king to be called from childhood till date is Eze ( Eze omolua) even though most of us call it Omolua. we used to visit the palace whenever we travel. I attended the university of Benin so i know plenty about benin too but my going there was not because we were ceded in Edo State, after all my Dad wanted me in Unilag.

However, i'm naturally at home with Anioma people mainly because of my IKA-ANIOMA LANGUAGE, style of music, cultural attire and way of life with no affiliation to bini which i still do not speak or understand despite living in the town in the past. I have flair for languages but struggling to even understand bini.

We from Igbanke see Agbor as our big brother and that is where we go shopping back in the day. To be honest, Agbor is about 10 mins drive from my village, even though google map states 23mins from Igbanke to Agbor but it's closest to delta than any bibi town.

Naturally (without struggle) all Igbanke people understand central Igbo language and many of us also speak the central Anioma tongue which i love so much because there is no struggling with it.

I have heard the whole story concerning Ogbemumia and how Igbanke became Edo but most youth of today we are not comfortable in EDO and some of my Yoruba friends in secondary school days jokingly call us slaves because we speak delta, yet being trapped in Edo but that is what it seems. when people ask us where we are from we just say Agbor just to spell us the whole question and answer thing because if you start to speak Ika then i and my brothers can respond better.

whether the Oba of Benin calls the king of Igbanke as enogie does not matter but what the indigenes calls their king is what counts. To call the king an Enogie is expected because he will adopt a bini name and title being that he finds himself under Edo state but ask any Igbanke person (first hand) what we call the king, then you will be told it is Eze because naturally we can relate with that without any sentiment, reason politics or geographical background in mind. we just see it as being correct when we use it!

In my village it is called Eze Omolua. My uncle's name is also Ezewani meaning "the land belongs to the king". In terms of names, we bear Ika names, Anioma names and even Edo names which for me does not matter because somethings (especially migration) can influence that.

If you ask Igbanke youths out there to make a choice, none of them will go with Bini because already Agbor and our Ika tongue is a big influence on us. We have been with Bini since but no affiliation to be honest.

Just to add this, one of my uncles married a full Edo Woman though she's late now. Those days she used to call us owe Igbo and she sees it as a form of greeting despite that she knows we are Ika. Reality is that Bini do not see Ika as their kin.

However, i remain a Nigerian.[/b]
https://www.nairaland.com/2592701/igbo-community-edo-state-igbo#up-

The post quoted belongs to Laribari, an old NL member of Igbanke origin. Just noticed he no longer comes around, chai,
Read more of his posts from his profile: https://www.nairaland.com/laribari

Igboid:
[b]WHOEVER MADE THE DECISION TO LUMP IGBANKE INTO EDO STATE SHOULD BE SHOT OR HANDED OVER TO ME TO DO JUSTICE.

I attended Edo State Day 2013 on 21st September 2013, organised by Edo State National Association UK.
From the personal greetings, the music, the introduction of guests to the the Master of Ceremony, every single sentence was in Bini language.

I felt like a fish out of water. I couldn't hear or understand a single word. I felt alien to the event, an alien in the midst of my supposed fellow Edolites. A stranger in my own State! Before you admonish me for not engaging, I can tell you that I did engage but everyone was engrossed in Bini language. I don't blame them. They are the majority but I had expected some translation of some sorts but all that was said was that if you don't understand Bini, just say Amen to some spoken words that I have no clue about. This is selfishness at the highest order.

I have to say that I have nothing against Bini people and hold them in high esteem. I accord the Bini's huge respect. I have them as my friends, as in laws and as cousins but I HAVE TO SAY THAT WHOEVER MADE THE DECISION TO LUMP IGBANKE INTO EDO STATE SHOULD BE SHOT. The relationship is so unbalanced and unequal. It is very difficult to get on when you can't relate to a single spoken word. If you attend a meeting and can't understand a word, how are you meant to represent your people? How do you pick up issues that borders on your people?

It is a big shame that Igbanke have to put up with this absurdity; an alien in the company of their supposed State Indigenes. Those our people who continue to say that Igbanke is Edo are so WRONG and far removed from reality. Unless, you can speak or understand Bini, one is alienated, completely at sea and lost big time.

The relationship is synonymous to a forced marriage, so unequal, so unbalanced and so wrong!
From Gloria Adagbo, [/b]

Gloria Adagbon is an Igbophobic Igbanke woman, I belong to Igbanke Facebook page and I had known her for many Years now, she is a staunch Igbo hater and an APC supporter, yet the above was her lamentation some time ago.
If Igbanke the most Edo influenced Igboid group in Edo state can't understand Edo/ Bini language, what chance does an Anioma Person in Delta state stand?

https://www.nairaland.com/1476072/igbanke-edo-state-delta-state/1

Any Ika person( excluding Oza people, who are originally Edo people, and remain Edo speaking till today) that understands any Edoid language, learnt it from the scratch. But Ika people as far as Edo state( Igbanke) understand central Igbo on first hearing.
This is the truth as we know it.

Igbanke is not more Edoid than Agbor or Owa. That they're in Edo state doesn't make them more Edo related. I understand Edo from my understanding of Ika language. Ika is more Igboid on the surface and more Edoid on the inside that's why any deep research on Ika points more towards Edo

There are too many falsehood in the quote like the IgboAkiri and some others but maybe I address that later.

Cire80:
Igbanke is not more Edoid than Agbor or Owa. That they're in Edo state doesn't make them more Edo related. I understand Edo from my understanding of Ika language. Ika is more Igboid on the surface and more Edoid on the inside that's why any deep research on Ika points more towards Edo

So, you have dropped your "Ika people understanding Edo language lies" only to pick up a new lie of Ika being Igbo on surface and Edo on inside?


What deep research do you speak of? The free minded colonials and their anthropologists after painstaking studies classified Ika as Western Igbo and not Eastern Edo, what other research do you speak of?

The Edos in Ika, the Oza people, still speak Edoid language till today. They only speak Igbo( Ika) as a second language. What other pointer do we need?

By the way, Igbanke is the most Edo influenced Ika clan, for while the rest of Ika had wriggled out of Oba Bini control, Oba still hold strong Influence over Igbanke through his imposed Enogies on the people whose( enogies) allegiance is to Bini, even unto thisday.

Igboid:


So, you have dropped your "Ika people understanding Edo language lies" only to pick up a new lie of Kia being Igbo on surface and Edo on inside?


What deep research do you speak of? The free minded colonials and their anthropologists after painstaking studies classified Ika as Western Igbo and not Eastern Edo, what other research do you speak of?

The Edos in Ika, the Oza people, still speak Edoid language till today. They only speak Igbo( Ika) as a second language. What other pointer do we need?

You read but can't comprehend. Not your fault.

Cire80:
You read but can't comprehend. Not your fault.

Stop talking trash! Unless you are Edoid( Oza nogogo people of Agbor who even unto this day speak an Edoid dialect totally unintelligible to Agbor people), you cannot understand Edo language as an Ika man without learning the language from the scratch.
This is the truth. And we are here to force it down your throat until you either swallow it or choke from it.

If any 'proper' Igbo (I don't even know what that is ) person can understand your native tongue without too much difficulty then you speak Igbo and are thus an Igbo person who speaks a specific Igbo dialect. The main difference between a language and a dialect is whether the people from the area in discussion can understand you or not. The two are very similar so it's understandable if someone gets confused by them. It's all about mutual comprehensibility.

@Probz Is this what you were talking about?

Probz:


I’m not trying to generalise, believe me. All I said was that, from my experience, most of the Igbo denial in Delta State comes from the Ika-Ukwuani (Bendel) region and that’s for a reason. I know there are Igbo deniers in Asaba environs but they’re noticeably fewer compared to their more westerly neighbours. Riverine Igbos, not just Deltans but select Anambrarians (Onitsha, Ogbaru), have this funny thing about hinterland Igbos anyway. We’ve all heard of ‘nwa onye Igbo.’

This is not pointed at you in particular but someone from another thread mentioned this to me so I just want to clarify things here. Calling other Igbos "nwa onye Igbo" does not mean that we deny being Igbo. I'll admit that some of my people have a superiority complex when it comes to other Igbos but it doesn't mean that we don't embrace our Igbo identity.

Probz:
I've heard that Ika and Ukwuani have elements of both Igbo and Bini. This is exactly what I'm saying about Igbos ignorantly trying to claim a hybrid group as theirs and only theirs when they've got other features.

I'm an Anambra dude myself and I don't understand Ukwuani one bit.

As a relatively "untravelled" Anambra man, I'm sure that you also can't understand Ezaa or even deep Nkanu dialects.
So what does it mean? That Ezaa and Nkanu people also have non Igbo influences?
What about Nsukka people, are they also hybrid Igbos since they were influenced by Igalas and you as an Anambra man can't understand the deep Nsukka Igbo dialect? Are they also hybrids that your imaginary Igbo people should stop classifying as Igbos too?
Please stay off issues beyond your grasp.

Igboid:


As a relatively "untravelled" Anambra man, I'm sure that you also can't understand Ezaa or even deep Nkanu dialects.
So what does it mean? That Ezaa and Nkanu people also have non Igbo influences?
What about Nsukka people, are they also hybrid Igbos since they were influenced by Igalas and you as an Anambra man can't understand the deep Nsukka Igbo dialect? Are they also hybrids that your imaginary Igbo people should stop classifying as Igbos too?
Please stay off issues beyond your grasp.

And who told you I'm untravelled?

Probz:
And who told you I'm untravelled?

You tell me why you struggle to understand an Igbo dialect as simple as Ukwuani? If not because you are not well versed in many Igbo dialects.

@Igboid, I met a guy, goes by a nick name "Let Them Say", and I asked him where he comes from during our course of conversation, he said Agbor, and I was wtf. You are my bro then, and he was like, no, I'm not from the Igbo speaking part, I'm from Oza and we speak Edo. That was the first time, I understood that Agbo harbord two linguistic group, Ika and Oza, an Edoid group.
Ika is Igbo, but heavily influenced by Edo. In Rivers State, one group of Ikwerre that is heavily influenced by the Ijaws is Ogbakiri. Ogbakiri dialect is littered with Kalabari words, here and there... this I guess is a result of long time interaction and close proximity.
This is my opinion.

blues2022:
@Igboid, I met a guy, goes by a nick name "Let Them Say", and I asked him where he comes from during our course of conversation, he said Agbor, and I was wtf. You are my bro then, and he was like, no, I'm not from the Igbo speaking part, I'm from Oza and we speak Edo. That was the first time, I understood that Agbo harbord two linguistic group, Ika and Oza, an Edoid group.
Ika is Igbo, but heavily influenced by Edo. In Rivers State, one group of Ikwerre that is heavily influenced by the Ijaws is Ogbakiri. Ogbakiri dialect is littered with Kalabari words, here and there... this I guess is a result of long time interaction and close proximity.
This is my opinion.

Yea!
Oza people speak Edoid language even though they are part of Agbor.
The fact that small Oza people retained their original Edoid language despite spending centuries with Igbo speaking Agbor people, is a nail on the coffins of the people that are trying to sell us a fake story of an Edo speaking Ika region that became igbonized over the centuries by interactions with Igbo migrants or neighbors, so much that they now speak an Igbo dialect as a first language, and has no surviving Edoid language as a vestige of their Edo root in time past.

Igboid:


Yea!
Oza people speak Edoid language even though they are part of Agbor.
The fact that small Oza people retained their original Edoid language despite spending centuries with Igbo speaking Agbor people, is a nail on the coffins of the people that are trying to sell us a fake story of an Edo speaking Ika region that became igbonized over the centuries by interactions with Igbo migrants or neighbors, so much that they now speak an Igbo dialect as a first language, and has no surviving Edoid language as a vestige of their Edo root in time past.

You don't know the history of Oza. Oza and other parts of Agbor have a shared history. There are some factors that helped Oza and the Olukumis retain there languages. These people are very much on the interior without much trade, interactions or migrations from the latter Easterners that came to Anioma

Do you know that there are some villages in Adamawa, Taraba and even some parts of Abuja that's not been exposed to civilization? Do you ever ask why they remained isolated despite the fact that their neighboring villages are exposed? The answer is isolation. Many factors lead to isolation.

This Igbo denials must stop... Even in the so called south east Igbo hinterlands, there are dialects like ezza, izzi, ikwo etc dt r far less intelligible than so called Anioma dialects, my question is, is it Edo dt still influenced them when they r surrounded by other mutually intelligible Igbo dialects People who cheaply employ dis rubbish division classifying igbo as being separate language from other Igbo dialects outside the politically created south east is just doing that with an ulterior motive, either to remain politically relevant as a different people in their domain dt is far away from the major Igbo cluster of south east or avoid entirely the Igbo man post civil war stigma...but it shldnt be this way! People shld know d following
1. Every language must have dialect variations as geographical positioning widens. Yorubas and Hausa's have dialects n all are not mutually intelligible although similarities exit...if a sokoto man speaks his Hausa dialect, a kano man will have a 5seconds delay in decoding what he is saying. Which will even take a Jos man much more timing to decode entirely dts if he can understand up to 60%

2.A dialect cannot be classified as a separate language from other of the language dialects simply because geographical distance or some imaginally politically administration lines if not Austrians today will not be seen and called a Germanic tribe or let's come home the egbas and ekpes of yorubas y not also classify them as being an entire different ethnic group.

3.if a language at a boaderline influences each other, that language must retain majority of it's own original language words and not that of the influencer... The influencers language will only appear in the language as borrowed words and not as a major syntactically correct sentence. Take the case of Agbor, oza and igbanke as example... From my understanding, Agbor's ika has many borrowed edoid words probably from the edoid group "oza" dt lives within their midst... Oza although having lived so many centuries within ika Pple still speak an edoid tongue totally different from any anioma subs... Although they may have few borrowed Anioma words over the years of interaction But they still backup the history claim that they are originally Edo fugitives who seemed asylum within Agbor ... Also look at igbanke, an igbanke or Igbo akiri man understands central Igbo at first contact even though it is furthest from the major Igbo cluster of south east, they also for years have lived in Edo and its language environ but still can't understand any edoid language but can understand a person from as far as Abia state.

My point is classification of many Igbo dialects as igboid group but a different entire language is a devise means of perpetuating a vicious malicious ulterior agenda!

Cire80:
You don't know the history of Oza. Oza and other parts of Agbor have a shared history. There are some factors that helped Oza and the Olukumis retain there languages. These people are very much on the interior without much trade, interactions or migrations from the latter Easterners that came to Anioma

Do you know that there are some villages in Adamawa, Taraba and even some parts of Abuja that's not been exposed to civilization? Do you ever ask why they remained isolated despite the fact that their neighboring villages are exposed? The answer is isolation. Many factors lead to isolation.

You sabi ague' o Which one come be interior and interaction again? So you mean the Oza speakers are bush people aka, interior, that never had contact with Igbos.

Cire80:
Bro, I respect people like you that are honest and argue out of deep personal conviction irrespective of whose ox is gored. I don't know what side you are on this but I'm certain you know the answer to most of these questions you're asking probz. As for me, I'm not completely on any side.

In my opinion, the op is right to some extent but he's trying to argue from an objective angle which I think is not possible in this topic. And his authoritative generalization is another issue.

And all those saying they understand Ukwani and Ika are not being truthful. You understand some things but you can't understand Ika and Ukwani except you've spent some time in an Ika and Ukwani town.

Bro, see eh, this is always going to be a controversial matter. My personal opinion is that there are no objective parameters for clearly delineating Igbo and so-called Igboid. The only 'Igboid' language that language experts believe stands clearly on its own is Ekpeye. The other ones form more or less a single linguistic continuum, with mutual intelligibility declining the further one moves from the centre. By the time one gets to the fringes of this linguistic continuum, one finds that mutual intelligibility with the centre has fallen to the point where communication is either very difficult or even impossible.

Believe me when i tell you that most Igbos from the southeast understand Ukwuani far better than they understand the dialects they speak in Abakiliki or Unwana or Abiriba. The first time i heard people having a shouting conversation in Abakiliki dialect near my aunt's house in Enugu, I thought they were speaking a Northern language (maybe Tiv). It was later that i learnt they were Abakiliki people. But Abakiliki is a dialect and Ukwuani is a language. It is difficult to objectively say why it is so.

Probz was talking about 'culturally Igbo'. What is 'culturally Igbo'? I tried to engage him in that conversation, but I didn't get the feeling that he really wanted to have it, so I dropped it. People often think Eke, Oye (Orie), Afo, Nkwo are some of the quintessential markers of Igbo culture. But the Izi people of Abakiliki don't even have Eke, Orie, Afo, Nkwo. What they have is a five-day arrangement: Ophoke, Azua, Iboko, Okpo and Nkwegu. Can one now say the Izi are not 'culturally Igbo'?

This Igbo-Igboid thing is really a very subjective thing, imo.

At the end of the day, I think I am what you could call a moderate pan-Igboist (I am from Oshimili, btw). While I think we (SErs and Anioma people) can find commom grounds, I do understand and respect the decision of the majority of the Ika, the Ukwuani, the Ikwerre, etc, who insist on maintaining their ethnic distinctness because ethnicity is really about group consciousness (i.e., how people perceive themselves) and not about linguistic and cultural realities.

I think the earlier we all accepted that these Igbo denials are issues of political convenience rather than history, the better for us. Any time you have an argument with someone who denies his Igboness from Delta and Rivers state, you can always sense insincerity in their tone. Why don't e all accept that you no longer want to be known as Igbo instead of throwing lies all over the place in the name of history. Some of these fabrications will make satan consider abdicating his throne for these people. I have conversed with them and i know how uninformed a lot of them are.

I served in a village/town of Mmahu in Ohaji/Egbema in Rivers state and just 4 villages away was Okwuzi, a Egbema town in the rivers part of Egbema and because of this Igbo and Igbod argument, i always took a short trip to Egbema in rivers state and try to get a first hand information from the people themselves. Mind you, the Egbema people on the Imo side are unapologetic Igbos. So, i went to Okwizi and started a conversation with a a young lady, wh i think should be in her early twenties and she told me her language is not Igbo but is like Igbo. She didn't sweep me off my feet cos i saw that coming. Now i met several people in the course of my investigation and i got different positions from these people. I met someone who told me that they're not Igbos because in their village they say "kita" as "come" while Igbos say "Ugbua". Ic couldn't believe the level of ignorance. I just felt like slapping someone. Though i met a lot of people who identified themselves as Igbos. Though these people just like those ones you find in Anioma, will not carry the Igbo tag on their head like someone from Anambra for example. I'll call them passive Igbos.

Meanwhile, back in the Imo side of Egbema i asked them why those in rovers state like denying being Igbo and they told me not to mind them. That it's because of oil.

Afam4eva:
I think the earlier we all accepted that these Igbo denials are issues of political convenience rather than history, the better for us.

I also think statements like this one are not accurate in its entirety. I can also say the whole pan-Igbo identity is a matter of convenience rather than history.

RedboneSmith:


Bro, see eh, this is always going to be a controversial matter. My personal opinion is that there are no objective parameters for clearly delineating Igbo and so-called Igboid. The only 'Igboid' language that language experts believe stands clearly on its own is Ekpeye. The other ones form more or less a single linguistic continuum, with mutual intelligibility declining the further one moves from the centre. By the time one gets to the fringes of this linguistic continuum, one finds that mutual intelligibility with the centre has fallen to the point where communication is either very difficult or even impossible.

Believe me when i tell you that most Igbos from the southeast understand Ukwuani far better than they understand the dialects they speak in Abakiliki or Unwana or Abiriba. The first time i heard people having a shouting conversation in Abakiliki dialect near my aunt's house in Enugu, I thought they were speaking a Northern language (maybe Tiv). It was later that i learnt they were Abakiliki people. But Abakiliki is a dialect and Ukwuani is a language. It is difficult to objectively say why it is so.

Probz was talking about 'culturally Igbo'. What is 'culturally Igbo'? I tried to engage him in that conversation, but I didn't get the feeling that he really wanted to have it, so I dropped it. People often think Eke, Oye (Orie), Afo, Nkwo are some of the quintessential markers of Igbo culture. But the Izi people of Abakiliki don't even have Eke, Orie, Afo, Nkwo. What they have is a five-day arrangement: Ophoke, Azua, Iboko, Okpo and Nkwegu. Can one now say the Izi are not 'culturally Igbo'?

This Igbo-Igboid thing is really a very subjective thing, imo.

At the end of the day, I think I am what you could call a moderate pan-Igboist (I am from Oshimili, btw). While I think we (SErs and Anioma people) can find commom grounds, I do understand and respect the decision of the majority of the Ika, the Ukwuani, the Ikwerre, etc, who insist on maintaining their ethnic distinctness because ethnicity is really about group consciousness (i.e., how people perceive themselves) and not about linguistic and cultural realities.

Excellent post.... I'm from Ebonyi State, Ivo precisely, and I can tell you that very few Igbos understand me when I switch to my dialect. They can pick one or two words, but the rest is usually tough.... From name, down to culture, omenali, Ikeji, aliezi, ishiechara, etc, one will see the igboness deeply embedded, in every Ebonyi town. But will I say I'm not Igbo because my dialect is distant from other Igbo speakers? In-fact, I find it offensive, when some ignorant and dumb fellows derogate my group, as a result of linguistic variances.

What this means is that we are simply one. But, through time, from our ancient forebears, migration, trade, intermarriage, assimilation with neighboring group saw variant Igbo communities springing up, with their unique tongues and practices. But what still bind us together is still visible till date... which is language, name culture, etc; although, as you said, the culture is subjective with how far the group is from the center.
Igbos are proud custodian of their culture and language.....

RedboneSmith:


I also think statements like this one are not accurate in its entirety. I can also say the whole pan-Igbo identity is a matter of convenience rather than history.

Since you're from Oshimili, i don't know if you know Emeka Esogbue. Over 5 years ago, he was one of the most avid Igboist from the other side of the Naija. He was always writing articles about how Anioma people are unapologetic Igbos and bla bla bla. Few years down the line, he was recruited by a man known an Kinirum who happens to be an anti Igbo element. because of recognition, Emeka bought into Kinirum's ideology and went the opposite side. Today, he's one of the proponent of anti Igbo dialogues. he even banned me from his facebook page because i told him that the late president of Ohanaeze Ndigbo, Ralph Uwueche was a pro Igbo person. I did so because i noticed when he was paying tribute to the man, he mentioned everything the man was exept the fact that he was the president of the apex Igbo body. if that is not politics, i don't know what it is.

RedboneSmith:


Bro, see eh, this is always going to be a controversial matter. My personal opinion is that there are no objective parameters for clearly delineating Igbo and so-called Igboid. The only 'Igboid' language that language experts believe stands clearly on its own is Ekpeye. The other ones form more or less a single linguistic continuum, with mutual intelligibility declining the further one moves from the centre. By the time one gets to the fringes of this linguistic continuum, one finds that mutual intelligibility with the centre has fallen to the point where communication is either very difficult or even impossible.

Believe me when i tell you that most Igbos from the southeast understand Ukwuani far better than they understand the dialects they speak in Abakiliki or Unwana or Abiriba. The first time i heard people having a shouting conversation in Abakiliki dialect near my aunt's house in Enugu, I thought they were speaking a Northern language (maybe Tiv). It was later that i learnt they were Abakiliki people. But Abakiliki is a dialect and Ukwuani is a language. It is difficult to objectively say why it is so.

Probz was talking about 'culturally Igbo'. What is 'culturally Igbo'? I tried to engage him in that conversation, but I didn't get the feeling that he really wanted to have it, so I dropped it. People often think Eke, Oye (Orie), Afo, Nkwo are some of the quintessential markers of Igbo culture. But the Izi people of Abakiliki don't even have Eke, Orie, Afo, Nkwo. What they have is a five-day arrangement: Ophoke, Azua, Iboko, Okpo and Nkwegu. Can one now say the Izi are not 'culturally Igbo'?

This Igbo-Igboid thing is really a very subjective thing, imo.

At the end of the day, I think I am what you could call a moderate pan-Igboist (I am from Oshimili, btw). While I think we (SErs and Anioma people) can find commom grounds, I do understand and respect the decision of the majority of the Ika, the Ukwuani, the Ikwerre, etc, who insist on maintaining their ethnic distinctness because ethnicity is really about group consciousness (i.e., how people perceive themselves) and not about linguistic and cultural realities.

You're completely right bro. Especially on the subjective and group consciousness and perception. Your comment about Abakiliki is true as well