I usually aviod islam bashing threads and I'll encourage all who post here to avoid islam and muslim bashing on the thread.

That no witstanding, is islam inherently peaceful or violent? I am not talking about the behaviour of muslims or those terrorist who hide under their religion. I am not talking about the extremists or historical antecedent. . . we all know humans fail.

I am talking about islam itself, not just how some people practice it, i am talking about it teachings, the rough and general concesus of the muslim schools, does Islam advocate peace with all men at all time even when and where religions differ?

N.B This topic should not be moved from the general religion section into the islam for muslim section, it is a topic that discusses islam while advocating varied non insultive input. It won't be fair to close it from discussion, it is a topic worth discussing by the general public.

EDITED: finally some mod has moved the thread. I still cant understand why.

there is something inherently aggressive in Abrahamism and that is the raging lust and need for world domination. take a look at the world you hardly hear other religions encroaching into other people's space to preach their beliefs. that is an exclusive characteristic of Christianity and Islam and this is because they both equally share that lust to dominate.
they both feel it is their divine right and command to take their religion and belief to all over the earth which has always made them aggressive towards other beliefs and religion.
no other religion can boast of the equal amount of violence and blood as Christianity and Islam, they both have no equal in this regard...

johnydon22:
there is something inherently aggressive in Abrahamism and that is the raging lust and need for world domination. take a look at the world you hardly hear other religions encroaching into other people's space to preach their beliefs. that is an exclusive characteristic of Christianity and Islam and this is because they both equally share that lust to dominate.
they both feel it is their divine right and command to take their religion and belief to all over the earth which has always made them aggressive towards other beliefs and religion.
no other religion can boast of the equal amount of violence and blood as Christianity and Islam, they both have no equal in this regard...

actually i have also heard of hindu violence amongst others, it seems it isn't restricted to abrahamism.

But as i said in the op, the thread has little to do with looking at manifestations of violence, it is to investigate if that violence is taught and a part of dat religion (islam).

Islam is inherently aggressive, supports and promotes the us verse them mentality which ultimately leads to violence.

Ubenedictus:
actually i have also heard of hindu violence amongst others, it seems it isn't restricted to abrahamism.

there is a certain magnitude of aggressiveness that only abrahamism possess and this makes it a global issue in terms that it covers more ground than any other - like i said above there is no religion that can match up to Abrahamic religions in terms of aggressiveness and violence world wide even in antiquity - arguable?

But as i said in the op, the thread has little to do with looking at manifestations of violence, it is to investigate if that violence is taught and a part of dat religion (islam).

there are varying doctrines of islam just as you can affirm to the varying doctrines found in christian and all these doctrines can be substantiated by intrinsic parts of the scriptures both bible and quran - so yes there may be very violent charges in many islamic doctrines that derive basis from the quran.

johnydon22:
there is something inherently aggressive in Abrahamism and that is the raging lust and need for world domination. take a look at the world you hardly hear other religions encroaching into other people's space to preach their beliefs. that is an exclusive characteristic of Christianity and Islam and this is because they both equally share that lust to dominate.
they both feel it is their divine right and command to take their religion and belief to all over the earth which has always made them aggressive towards other beliefs and religion.
no other religion can boast of the equal amount of violence and blood as Christianity and Islam, they both have no equal in this regard...

Your deranged eagerness to always baselessly drag Christianity into issues of islamic extremism is really nauseating. You really need to receive sense.

Ubenedictus:
I usually aviod islam bashing threads and I'll encourage all who post here to avoid islam and muslim bashing on the thread.

That no witstanding, is islam inherently peaceful or violent? I am not talking about the behaviour of muslims or those terrorist who hide under their religion. I am not talking about the extremists or historical antecedent. . . we all know humans fail.

I am talking about islam itself, not just how some people practice it, i am talking about it teachings, the rough and general concesus of the muslim schools, does Islam advocate peace with all men at all time even when and where religions differ?

N.B This topic should not be moved from the general religion section into the islam for muslim section, it is a topic that discusses islam while advocating varied non insultive input. It won't be fair to close it from discussion, it is a topic worth discussing by the general public.

To answer your question, yes Islam is intrinsicly violent. The prophet of Islam was a very violent man and during his lifetime he organised and executed over a hundred military expeditions with the purpose of forcefully converting people to islam(jihad) and also looting of caravans to raise funds to finance his military campaigns. He ordered several violent acts including the beheading of 900 Jews in one day. He was clearly an extremely violent man.

Were the problem now lies is that the quoran describes mohamed as the "best of mankind" and it enjoins all muslims to emulate him. It therefore means to be a good Muslim you must emulate mohammed who was an extremely violent character thus making islam an inherently violent religion.

annunaki2:


Your deranged eagerness to always baselessly drag Christianity into issues of Islamic extremism is really nauseating. You really need to receive sense.

I will not bring myself as low as banter words with you, I have spoken my truth the best you can do is counter it with facts if you can - unless you can't so you resort to insulting.

radical Christianity has been as aggressive as radical Islam and you cannot dispute that, therefore I see no reason why you cannot present your arguments without being spiteful and resorting to insults - I do not know you so surely do not feel the need to start exchanging personal remarks and insults with you.

next time, bring your arguments, not your insults, we understand you know how to indulge in hateful insulting emotional banters but some of us are above the puerile level.

johnydon22:


I will not bring myself as low as banter words with you, I have spoken my truth the best you can do is counter it with facts if you can - unless you can't so you resort to insulting.

radical Christianity has been as aggressive as radical Islam and you cannot dispute that, therefore I see no reason why you cannot present your arguments without being spiteful and resorting to insults - I do not know you so surely do not feel the need to start exchanging personal remarks and insults with you.

next time, bring your arguments, not your insults, we understand you know how to indulge in hateful insulting emotional banters but some of us are above the puerile level.

When you start butressing your vacant claims with scriptures were Jesus instructed or preached terrorism the same way mohammed routinely and severally preached, instigated and instructed terrorism in the quoran then you will begin to make sense. Jesus went as far as telling his followers to love their enemies and do good to people that hate them. So it's outrageously ridiculous you start comparing a religion founded by such a person with that founded by a vile vermin like mohammed. Even if there are pockets of violence associated with Christianity in history, it is crystal clear that the perpetrators of the violence are not following christian teachings unlike the case of Islam were violence is a core doctrine and attribute of it's founder.

annunaki2:


When you start butressing your vacant claims with scriptures were Jesus instructed or preached terrorism the same way mohammed routinely and severally preached, instigated and instructed terrorism in the quoran then you will begin to make sense. Jesus went as far as telling his followers to love their enemies and do good to people that hate them. So it's outrageously ridiculous you start comparing a religion founded by such a person with that founded by a vile vermin like mohammed. Even if there are pockets of violence associated with Christianity in history, it is crystal clear that the perpetrators of the violence are not following christian teachings unlike the case of Islam were violence is a core doctrine and attribute of it's founder.

i am not here to start quoting the scriptures with you, i am here to condemn acts of terrorism both religions has poured on the world due to the 'dominate the world' ideology both possess.

i judge a person based on their action not what your scripture says because i am sure none of you holds to 40% of what the scriptures says.

Jesus and Muhammed are two different dead indviduals, i am not here to argue which of them is better than the other rather i am here to castigate the actions of their so-called followers whose actions certainly affects even me.

annunaki2:


When you start butressing your vacant claims with scriptures were Jesus instructed or preached terrorism the same way mohammed routinely and severally preached, instigated and instructed terrorism in the quoran then you will begin to make sense. Jesus went as far as telling his followers to love their enemies and do good to people that hate them. So it's outrageously ridiculous you start comparing a religion founded by such a person with that founded by a vile vermin like mohammed. Even if there are pockets of violence associated with Christianity in history, it is crystal clear that the perpetrators of the violence are not following christian teachings unlike the case of Islam were violence is a core doctrine and attribute of it's founder.

this is nonsense...

Ive seen muslims on this forum pick out verses in the quran by muhammed himself...condemning terroristic acts..

And your statement about jesus would be arguable.....had it been the christian bible had only the four gospels..

MrMontella:

this is nonsense...

Ive seen muslims on this forum pick out verses in the quran by muhammed himself...condemning terroristic acts..

And your statement about jesus would be arguable.....had it been the christian bible had only the four gospels..

i admire some of the philosophies of the character Jesus as seen in the synoptic gospels, it is also undeniable that there are also within the words attributed to Muhammed in the Quran really profound words of decent wisdom - even though i disagree with their beliefs some of which i find lunatic.

but we are not here to judge their characters, it was a weak clutch at digression... the actions of a lot forms the major basis of their image not what they feel they believe.

beliefs makes nobody good or bad, actions does. so calling on us to point at the scripture for charges of violence for Christians was a very absurd reply, i dont understand if that was meant as an excuse that Christians dont also met out aggressive violent actions at others or was it meant to serve as a denial?

johnydon22:


I will not bring myself as low as banter words with you, I have spoken my truth the best you can do is counter it with facts if you can - unless you can't so you resort to insulting.

radical Christianity has been as aggressive as radical Islam and you cannot dispute that, therefore I see no reason why you cannot present your arguments without being spiteful and resorting to insults - I do not know you so surely do not feel the need to start exchanging personal remarks and insults with you.

next time, bring your arguments, not your insults, we understand you know how to indulge in hateful insulting emotional banters but some of us are above the puerile level.

you too bring an evidence that prove that radical christians wrecking havoc in the community.

My take is that theocratic governments tend to be more intolerant of minorities and dissenting views than liberal governments, this is so because they claim to derive their laws from the highest authority which is God. The only problem with this is that the people with power are the ones that determine what is said by God. Case in point Galilei Galileo.
Having said the above, I think Islam is naturally more violent than Christianity since it was founded on theocratic aspirations. As many Muslims will tell you, the purest form of practicing Islam will result in a Caliphate or an Islamic State.
This is in contrast with Christianity where its founder said his Kingdom is not an earthly one and wherever two or three are gathered in His name, he would be present.
Granted, the church of old did usurp Christianity and turned it into a Theocracy which ushered the world into what is now called the dark age. Islam unchallenged will be many times worse since the religion is a natural theocracy.

dalaman:
Islam is inherently aggressive, supports and promotes the us verse them mentality which ultimately leads to violence.

Can u support this submission with the koran, hadith and d judgements of the muslim schools of jurispondence.

johnydon22:


there is a certain magnitude of aggressiveness that only abrahamism possess and this makes it a global issue in terms that it covers more ground than any other - like i said above there is no religion that can match up to Abrahamic religions in terms of aggressiveness and violence world wide even in antiquity - arguable?



there are varying doctrines of islam just as you can affirm to the varying doctrines found in christian and all these doctrines can be substantiated by intrinsic parts of the scriptures both bible and quran - so yes there may be very violent charges in many islamic doctrines that derive basis from the quran.

it is true that there is are types of violence only adherents of abrahamism can wrought, they are the ones with big population, their violence will be equally big.

and yes there are differing islamic school with differing posturing but they usually form a rough consensus taken together hence my question may b answered generally.

annunaki2:


Your deranged eagerness to always baselessly drag Christianity into issues of islamic extremism is really nauseating. You really need to receive sense.

No need to be defensive, anywhere 50 humans are gathered there is a capacity for violence, it can be good or horrible, sometimes it is mixed. Does islam advocate it?

annunaki2:


To answer your question, yes Islam is intrinsicly violent. The prophet of Islam was a very violent man and during his lifetime he organised and executed over a hundred military expeditions with the purpose of forcefully converting people to islam(jihad) and also looting of caravans to raise funds to finance his military campaigns. He ordered several violent acts including the beheading of 900 Jews in one day. He was clearly an extremely violent man.

Were the problem now lies is that the quoran describes mohamed as the "best of mankind" and it enjoins all muslims to emulate him. It therefore means to be a good Muslim you must emulate mohammed who was an extremely violent character thus making islam an inherently violent religion.

Can we prove this allegations? can u take them one by one and prove them.
the koran admonishes muslim to follow the prophet in all things?

johnydon22:


I will not bring myself as low as banter words with you, I have spoken my truth the best you can do is counter it with facts if you can - unless you can't so you resort to insulting.

radical Christianity has been as aggressive as radical Islam and you cannot dispute that, therefore I see no reason why you cannot present your arguments without being spiteful and resorting to insults - I do not know you so surely do not feel the need to start exchanging personal remarks and insults with you.

next time, bring your arguments, not your insults, we understand you know how to indulge in hateful insulting emotional banters but some of us are above the puerile level.

Thank u for avoiding banter, that is d next step to bashing.

the question is where does d violence come from? human nature or religious teaching?

MrMontella:

this is nonsense...

Ive seen muslims on this forum pick out verses in the quran by muhammed himself...condemning terroristic acts..

And your statement about jesus would be arguable.....had it been the christian bible had only the four gospels..

Are there verses that advocate violent acts or is it all just warm and fuzzy?

Ubenedictus:
Can u support this submission with the koran, hadith and d judgements of the muslim schools of jurispondence.

Of course. There are many materials on that all over.

johnydon22:


i admire some of the philosophies of the character Jesus as seen in the synoptic gospels, it is also undeniable that there are also within the words attributed to Muhammed in the Quran really profound words of decent wisdom - even though i disagree with their beliefs some of which i find lunatic.

but we are not here to judge their characters, it was a weak clutch at digression... the actions of a lot forms the major basis of their image not what they feel they believe.

beliefs makes nobody good or bad, actions does. so calling on us to point at the scripture for charges of violence for Christians was a very absurd reply, i dont understand if that was meant as an excuse that Christians dont also met out aggressive violent actions at others or was it meant to serve as a denial?

Actually if both religion says the leaders should be imitated then their lives are important. belief inform action. If u re taught killin is beautiful then u probably wil enjoy it

dalaman:

Of course. There are many materials on that all over.

Can we see them?

How come there are no muslims here? heck....

Ubenedictus:
Actually if both religion says the leaders should be imitated then their lives are important. belief inform action. If u re taught killin is beautiful then u probably wil enjoy it

What belief informed the killings which the Roman Catholic church did during the inquisitions of the dark ages? Were those beliefs taught by Jesus Christ?

DoctorAlien:


What belief informed the killings which the Roman Catholic church did during the inquisitions of the dark ages? Were those beliefs taught by Jesus Christ?

kindly open a thread on it and i'll be there.

The topic here isnt related to what u are asking. Dont divert the thread.

Ubenedictus:
Actually if both religion says the leaders should be imitated then their lives are important. belief inform action. If u re taught killin is beautiful then u probably wil enjoy it

you are right but yet we should still judge people by their actions or do you think otherwise?

and i don not think really that every religion is entirely bad, i think just as politics religion has just being abused, overused.

Ubenedictus:
Thank u for avoiding banter, that is d next step to bashing.

thank you too my brother, insults are not argument and only some who have no argument or lack the intellectual requirements needed for a healthy discussion would resort to insults - that's why they have turned the religious board into a place of personal emotional warfares, insults and serious comtempt and animosity towards each other. [theist vs atheist saga] i do believe the diversity in our ideas should be a ground for a sound intellectual discussion and debate not enmity.

the question is where does d violence come from? human nature or religious teaching?

due to our possession of the ancient brain part called the R-complex, we are territorial and aggressive beings but the simplicity of our psychology was altered by our possession of the Celebral cortex which gives us a much intricate neurological ability.

so our psychology can be shaped by many things other than our inherent nature, i think religious teaching is one of the human enterprise which a humongous ability to shape our mind due to the fact that it touches the most emotional part of our being.

so i think religious teachings can be pointed as the culprit here but as analytical beings i'd expect people to think beyond what they are taught.

Ubenedictus:
Are there verses that advocate violent acts or is it all just warm and fuzzy?

of course...
Like apostasy laws

johnydon22:
there is something inherently aggressive in Abrahamism and that is the raging lust and need for world domination. take a look at the world you hardly hear other religions encroaching into other people's space to preach their beliefs. that is an exclusive characteristic of Christianity and Islam and this is because they both equally share that lust to dominate.
they both feel it is their divine right and command to take their religion and belief to all over the earth which has always made them aggressive towards other beliefs and religion.
no other religion can boast of the equal amount of violence and blood as Christianity and Islam, they both have no equal in this regard...

How typical. U dont even attempt to answer the question. Yet you think being atheist makes you intelligent.

johnydon22:
you are right but yet we should still judge people by their actions or do you think otherwise?

and i don not think really that every religion is entirely bad, i think just as politics religion has just being abused, overused.

People should be judged by their actions that is very true but as i said belief inform actions and i am trying to investigate and discuss the belief system, does the belief support violence.

yes religion is generally overuse.

MrMontella:
of course... Like apostasy laws

WHERE are those law?