We could establish

illusion2:

Ask people ke ? I'm asking you. Anything you cannot bet your life on isn't 100% true,the lesson is open your mind & stop all these childish generalisations.

On the infallibility of the Qu'ran have a look at these 4 really simple examples :

*Note I'm not trying to cast aspersions on Islam,I just want you to use your God given mind & stop stereotyping. . , . . . like a popular Nigerian proverbs says "he who isn't exposed will always claim his father's farm is the largest in the world".

1. Mary and Miriam
One of the best known errors is that concerning the confusion between Mary, recorded in the Qur'an as the sister of Aaron and the daughter of Imran (Biblical Amran) as well as the mother of Jesus (by implication in suras 19:28; 66:12; 20:25-30), though the two, Mary and Miriam, lived 1,570 years apart. (God mixed up the names?)

The Aaron mentioned here is not the borther of Moses but Aaron was a common name among the israelis and it is really absurd for anyone to link into the brother of Moses. Having the same people called james and john does not mean they are one and the same person. This issue was brought fwd during the time of the prophet and Mughira said "When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me:  You read "O sister of Harun (Aaron)" (i. e. Mary) in the Qur'an, whereas Moses was born much before Jesus.   When I came back to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) I asked him about that, whereupon he said:  The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostles and pious persons who had gone before them.  (Muslim, Book 025, Number 5326)"

2. Creation
Sura 86:5-7 tells us that man is created from a gushing fluid that issues from between the loins and the ribs. Therefore, in this sura we find that the semen which creates a child originates from the back or kidney of the male and not the testicles. (God could not tell the difference ?)

I always had the impression that you were one of the few christians that sometimes research islam before making conclusions but it appears you just copied and pasted this from an internet site without making any independent thought or verification.
From your point here we can establish 3 points from you:

Semen is created in the testicles
The quran says semen comes from between loins and ribs
The quran is wrong on this point.


Firstly let s analyse the verse in Arabic it says “khuliqa min main dafeeq”
Khuliqa = created
Min = from
Maain = liquid, water, fluid
Dafeeq = Gushes forth
“created from liquid gushing forth”

The quran does not use the word semen it only said a liquid, the quran never said the semen is made btw the loins and the ribs but said “created from a liquid gushing forth”
Science has established this liquid is that which gives the semen needed energy and contains fructose an energiser.
Now where does science say the semen is produced , Semen contains only 5% sperm which is formed in the tescticles but spermatozoa itself needs a force to move and proceed to ferterlise the egg. science tell us that 70% of sperm comes from two storage areas which are the seminal vesicles, and not from the testicles. The seminal vesicles usually contribute more than half of the seminal volume. Their secretions are particularly rich in a sugar called fructose, which is an essential nutrient for the spermatozoa. They also produce a substance that causes the semen to clot (become sticky or jelly-like) after expulsion, thought useful in reproduction for keeping the semen at the neck of a woman's womb.

The seminal vesicles are anterior to the sacrum and coccyx (lower back, loin) and the ribs are anterior to the seminal vesicles.

If one was to draw a line from the tip of the coccyx, to the upper portion of the seminal vesicle _ either one of the two_ and extend the line forward it will catch the ribcage.

The seminal vesicles from which the semen spurts out during coitus, lies between the ribs and the coccyx!

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/menshealth/facts/semenandsperm.htm

Now look at the whole verse from the qur’an “Let man look at (and bear in mind) the substance he is created from!  (He is) created from the surging fluid, which springs from between the spine and the ribs!

This is exactly in conformation with science of the 21st century. Muhammed PBUH could not have known this 1400 years ago , he was illiterate and in the desert. He could only have known this from a higher source the creator and designer of man himself. Science always thought semen was created in the tescticles and formed during coitus but this is wrong and only discovered in the 20th century.

Buddie with due respect but you shot yourself in the foot with this assertion and in fact this could be a wake up call for you and a guidance from God to re consider your stance towards islam, perhaps you could be a muslim.

3. Qibla
In sura 2:142-144, we find the change of the Qibla, the direction of prayer from Mecca to Jerusalem, and back to Mecca.(God made a mistake ?)

Common my good pal  there was no mistake in this , Jerusalem was the first qibla and towards the end of the life of the prophet shortly before the conquest of makkah the qibla was changed to makkah in preparation of the destruction of the idols at the kaaba and cleansing during the conquest of Makkah. This is no mistake God has the power to change what he wills with no one able to question him.

Buddie i am not sure but if it is from sam shamoun on the internet you got all this from , please try to independtly analyse it before posting it as all his assertions have been refuted over and over again by muslims.

I again assert with all confidence that the quran is free of errors and mistakes , and it is indeed the dearest miracle of islam as it is an intellectual challenge to mankind to use the brains and intelligence to analyse issues.

ALLAH AKBAR,theres none without you

Lagosbobo ,
My main guy.

I didn't want to respond cos the mighty Jarus himself says the thread should be for you & ify alone

However,I must say that I honesly wish every so called religious person could take time to ponder on their beliefs rather than be quick to cast aspersions on others.

On the 4 issues I raised,thank you for your detailed analysis,i think a lot of threads exists on NL that thrash out these things.

My point really was to show that uplawal should not be quick to bring down other people's faith cos we all still require further contemplation and research on our beliefs.

You have taken the pains to analyse these passages of the Q'uran,tho' I do not agree with all you have posted,but my point is clear.

Reading those passages as they are could suggest some mistake (emphasis on suggest),so someone picking the Bible too and jumping to conclusions or sayng the Bible is false ,christians are liars etc is not being courteous at all.

Lets us,spend time on the spiritual aspects of our religion. . . praying,fasting,worshipping. . . .and not waste God given time insulting other people's beliefs.

We can argue respectfully on doctrine,theology,history etc. . . but not think the worst of the other side.

Like I said earlier religion isn't like Man U vs Arsenal,its much more serious than that !

Cheers man.

I totally agree with you that there are lots to learn within our faiths. Debate with respect has been the music I sing on NL and its good I have few other people who share the view especially on religious issues. When there is mutual respect it leads to understanding and your message is passed across in a more dignifying manner.

The quran says “Invite to Allah in a beautiful manner . . . .” Q16 v 125

By the way where is IFY

illusion2:

Lagosbobo ,
My main guy.

I didn't want to respond cos the mighty Jarus himself says the thread should be for you & ify alone

However,I must say that I honesly wish every so called religious person could take time to ponder on their beliefs rather than be quick to cast aspersions on others.

On the 4 issues I raised,thank you for your detailed analysis,i think a lot of threads exists on NL that thrash out these things.

My point really was to show that uplawal should not be quick to bring down other people's faith cos we all still require further contemplation and research on our beliefs.

You have taken the pains to analyse these passages of the Q'uran,tho' I do not agree with all you have posted,but my point is clear.

Reading those passages as they are could suggest some mistake (emphasis on suggest),so someone picking the Bible too and jumping to conclusions or sayng the Bible is false ,christians are liars etc is not being courteous at all.

Lets us,spend time on the spiritual aspects of our religion. . . praying,fasting,worshipping. . . .and not waste God given time insulting other people's beliefs.

We can argue respectfully on doctrine,theology,history etc. . . but not think the worst of the other side.

Like I said earlier religion isn't like Man U vs Arsenal,its much more serious than that !

Cheers man.

A reasonable input there. . .but please, I no mighty anything o. I've just been given the job to 'monitor' this place and trying to ensure there is sanity as much as possible, while, of course, not ruling out the possibility that as a human, I may have my excesses and shortcomings.

@ILLUSIONS,am sure you know muslims dont start first,u want me to sit and peck u while u rubbish my religion,u know thats not possible,except u discontinue from that

Jarus:

A reasonable input there. . .but please, I no mighty anything o. I've just been given the job to 'monitor' this place and trying to ensure there is sanity as much as possible, while, of course, not ruling out the possibility that as a human, I may have my excesses and shortcomings.

Thats a real man . . . admitting his short comings. . . I beg you mighty no be small,lol!

uplawal:

@ILLUSIONS,am sure you know muslims dont start first,u want me to sit and peck u while u rubbish my religion,u know thats not possible,except u discontinue from that

Its a woman thingy. . .I understand

lagosboy,i dey ooh.
reading nd digesting things from the sidelines,at times its good to hang at the sidelines and watch.
wud be back fullforce with my questions.
Been good so farz,Salams everyone.

Re: Curious About Islam,facts About Islam.
« #31 on: December 09, 2009, 04:45 PM »

Rapture,Hell,Heaven,New earth,casting of demons/devil ie deliverance Huh
what are the significances of going to Mecca?Must a Muslim go to Mecca?
hi ify it is compulsory for a muslim to go mecca if he/she has the money and health and even if he/she has the money but he /she is ill islam teaches us that he/she shold not go

seguntijan:

Re: Curious About Islam,facts About Islam.
« #31 on: December 09, 2009, 04:45 PM »

Rapture,Hell,Heaven,New earth,casting of demons/devil ie deliverance Huh
what are the significances of going to Mecca?Must a Muslim go to Mecca?
hi ify it is compulsory for a muslim to go mecca if he/she has the money and health and even if he/she has the money but he /she is ill islam teaches us that he/she shold not go

i dont get u .@lagosboy and all,happy Jumai and pls do Duah(Sp) for me

Jumah mubarak IFY and all your duas will be answered. sp Dua noted though

Thanks Lb
Why is it that No prayer is said in Jesus name?afterall he is one of the prophets of Allah and moreover,one of the creeds said,I believe that Allah is the one and only true God and Muhammed is his prophet . . .why not Jesus?

Salam alykun everyone. . .may Allah rewad u all for d good works u r doing. . i'm back oo

Walaykum salam warahmatullah, welcome

@tanimz

tnx. . .i see u guys are taking care of the house in my absence. . .where d flip flop is mukina. . .where is uplawal. . .make una report una self here oooo

@Jarus tnx for d phone call i really appreciate

^^

ifyalways:

Thanks Lb
Why is it that No prayer is said in Jesus name?afterall he is one of the prophets of Allah and moreover,one of the creeds said,I believe that Allah is the one and only true God and Muhammed is his prophet . . .why not Jesus?

In the name of Allah the most gracious, most merciful
Ify

No prayer is said in any prophets name in islam, we only say prayers in Gods name the lord of we and the prophets themselves. No prophet said any prayer in their name but the all said prayers in the name of God himself. Ant that is why when Jesus PBUH performed any miracle he said " in the name of my father . . . stand up/ get healed . . . ." That is why every single chapter apart from 1 in the quran start with "in the name of God the gracious the merciful" .

Allah said when we want to call on him the quran he says "Invoke Allâh or invoke the Most Beneficent (Allâh), by whatever name you invoke Him (it is the same), for to Him belong the Best Names. And offer your Salât (prayer) neither aloud nor in a low voice, but follow a way between" Q17 v 110

Praying in any human name be it prophet or messenger , is deemed associating partners with God and the gravest sin in islam which is shirk.

Regarding the testimony of faith shadah which you mentioned , we mention Muhammeds PBUH name because he was the last messenger and the quran came to confirm all that came before it. We cannot mention every single prophet of God in the testimony as that will be an endless testimony but not mentioning their names does not make them less important as desbelieveing in any of them nullifies your testimony of faith. The difference ebetween a muslim and a jew or christian is the acceptance of Prophet Muhammed and that is one of the significance of his name in the testimony of faith. If you want to add the statement i believe in Jesus PBUH as the prophet of God, when you declare your shahadah that is absolutely fine and no issues with that as well.

Jesus is the 2nd greatest prophet of God , our beloved Eesah who would come back and his comming back signifies the end of time. We love him tremendously, we believe in him, in his miracles and he had many unique qualites that other prophets did not have. Indeed may the peace of God be on him Jesus.

God is not the father of Jesus. Jesus must have said in the name of God and not the name of my father.

Lagosboy:

Jesus is the 2nd greatest prophet of God , our beloved Eesah who would come back and his comming back signifies the end of time. We love him tremendously, we believe in him, in his miracles and he had many unique qualites that other prophets did not have. Indeed may the peace of God be on him Jesus.

So can I say "There is no God but Allah, and Jesus is his Messenger." , to become a muslim ?

Lagosboy:

And that is why when Jesus PBUH performed any miracle he said " in the name of my father . . . stand up/ get healed . . . ."

I also noticed Muslims do not regard God as their father like Jesus (your second greatest prophet),why?

illusion2:

So can I say "There is no God but Allah, and Jesus is his Messenger." , to become a muslim ?

To be a Muslim you have to say “There is no go but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger” If you would like to add and Jesus is his messenger there is no issue with it as if you disbelieve in Jesus PBUH you are not a Muslim anyway. On the contrary you cannot be a Muslim if you simply say “there is no god but Allah and Jesus is his messenger” because you have not accepted Muhammad PBUH the last prophet of Allah. We Muslim believe in all the prophets and messengers and we do not make distinction between them.

I also noticed Muslims do not regard God as their father like Jesus (your second greatest prophet),why?

This is something I like to avoid on this thread, biblical analysis/comparative analysis, because I just like to focus on Islam and whoever gets convinced can accept it. Although Allah blessed me with some detailed knowledge of the bible I don’t like to delve into it as experience of NL tells me it is a vicious cycle. Regarding the father, there is what we call metaphorical speech, Jesus referring to God as the father is 100% metaphoric nothing more. We Muslims do not call God our father because we do not want to make the same mistakes the Christians made by thinking we are all children of God and Jesus PBUH is the begotten son of God. We find it honorable to call ourselves slaves of God as we are in his bondage; we are nothing but pen in the hands of God. He can use us to do anything without our permission and that is servitude to God. The quran referred to us as slaves of God and we are honored to in fact be slaves of God and not animals and not Jinns.

lagosboy,dnt mind the bible at all,jesus never said my father,the word father was replaced instead of LORD,they replaced it o, theres no how Jesus could have said my father in the INJIL,if he had Allah would have brought it out in the INJIL thats in the QURAN,ALLAHU ko bimo,We are all descendants of ADAM

uplawal:

lagosboy,dnt mind the bible at all,jesus never said my father,the word father was replaced instead of LORD,they replaced it o, theres no how Jesus could have said my father in the INJIL,if he had Allah would have brought it out in the INJIL thats in the QURAN,ALLAHU ko bimo,We are all descendants of ADAM

 
This is where I quarrel with people, shed light^{(If you can't,please be QUIET !!)} ,don't be quick to discountenance another person's view. What do you mean by "dnt mind the bible at all,jesus never said my father" , learn from the insightful response of Bro Lagosboy.

Lagosboy:

This is something I like to avoid on this thread, biblical analysis/comparative analysis, because I just like to focus on Islam and whoever gets convinced can accept it. Although Allah blessed me with some detailed knowledge of the bible I don’t like to delve into it as experience of NL tells me it is a vicious cycle. Regarding the father, there is what we call metaphorical speech, Jesus referring to God as the father is 100% metaphoric nothing more. We Muslims do not call God our father because we do not want to make the same mistakes the Christians made by thinking we are all children of God and Jesus PBUH is the begotten son of God. We find it honorable to call ourselves slaves of God as we are in his bondage; we are nothing but pen in the hands of God. He can use us to do anything without our permission and that is servitude to God. The quran referred to us as slaves of God and we are honored to in fact be slaves of God and not animals and not Jinns.

Most of the people that are quick to cast down other beliefs (both christians & muslims) are actually very,very ignorant. Rather than take time to study & think things through,they are quick to say . . . this is wrong,that is right.

Who told you so !

What do you know?! Have you read the Bible to know Jesus never said those things? Tho' I disagree with LB assertions that they are mere metaphors,BUT ITS IN THE BBBLE,so how can you come up to say Jesus never said it ?

Its amazing how we spend hours on end on the internet but never learn anything.


Well done LagosBoy. . . God bless 

@illusion,pls you dnt have to comment on my post if you dnt like it,i dnt even know if youre a muslim or not sef,what light do i have to shed again if not what i wrote,and av you gone through the Quran and see if Jesus said my father,so what light do you require me to shed again,am sorry to say,you are very silly to tell me to keep qiet,dnt u think thats rude?i say it again


@Lagosboy,Pls dnt mind the BIBLE o,afterall its 5% of Jesus(pbuh) words and the others(barrister paul d tortoise)

uplawal:

@illusion,pls you dnt have to comment on my post if you dnt like it,i dnt even know if youre a muslim or not sef,what light do i have to shed again if not what i wrote,and av you gone through the Quran and see if Jesus said my father,so what light do you require me to shed again,am sorry to say,you are very silly to tell me to keep qiet,dnt u think thats rude?i say it again

You should respect your seniors like a good muslim,its very easy to type insults. . .
show some maturity by holding back & exhibit positive attributes of Islam as directed by the holy prophet Mohammed (pbuh) 

uplawal:

@Lagosboy,Pls dnt mind the BIBLE o,afterall its 5% of Jesus(pbuh) words and the others(barrister paul d tortoise)

Where did 5% come from ? 

respect is reciprocal,or why are u quick to judge,or dnt u realise that u indirectly insulted me

uplawal:

respect is reciprocal,or why are u quick to judge,or dnt u realise that u indirectly insulted me

I didn't insult you my dear. . . but even if I did where is the spirit of forgiveness ?

if i chose to insult u back pls am not a sinner by doing so,cos u did insult me,and if i forgive,its up to me

uplawal:

if i chose to insult u back pls am not a sinner by doing so,cos u did insult me,and if i forgive,its up to me

Its okay move on !

hi mr illusion,are u now a muslim?

uplawal:

hi mr illusion,are u now a muslim?

No Im not,but I live with arabs,so I have a better appreciation Islam & its adherents.

okay,thats cool,but its better and wiser if u be one

uplawal:

okay,thats cool,but its better and wiser if u be one

Please prove to me why it would be 'better & wiser' for me.