Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says - Religion - Nairaland
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| Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by ChristianFreedo(m): 12:10pm On Mar 03, 2017 |
JEHOVAH’S WITNESS AND HITLER GERMANY: WHAT THE WATCHTOWER NEVER SAYS  NB: For Jehovah’s witness reading this, it is recommended your read these two articles; “Jehovah’s Witnesses—Courageous in the Face of Nazi Peril” and “The Holocaust—Who Spoke Out?”, appearing in Awake! August 22 1995 and Awake! 1998 Jul 8; respectively. At least, to have both sides of the story. “When you give the world GOOD CAUSE to hate you, it doesn't count as persecution, because you are not being hated for righteousness sake, you are being hated because of your self-righteous hypocrisy, practicing, behind closed doors, all those things you condemn from the pulpit”-Anonymous Another aspect the so-called “apostates” are accused of lying is in regards to suffering of Jehovah’s witnesses under Hitler. This is largely so because the watchtower is economical with what is presented concerning what really led to the actions of Hitler towards JWs. One of the groups that Hitler sent to concentration camps were Jehovah's Witnesses. They were forced to endure unspeakable atrocities and many lost their lives. The individual actions of many Witnesses are commendable and the Watchtower holds up this part of their history in great esteem. What is not discussed is the hypocritical actions of Rutherford in the lead up to these events. Early in 1933, the Watchtower office in Berlin was closed and Jehovah's Witnesses were banned in many German states. This was due to the refusal of Jehovah's Witnesses to swear loyalty to the government or to serve in its armed forces. In an attempt to appease Hitler into lifting the ban, Rutherford instigated a Declaration of Facts and sent a Letter to Hitler discussing the Watchtower's support of the Nazi regime. Current Watchtower references provide a deceptive portrayal of these documents, through selective quoting. The Proclaimer's book mentions that Rutherford wrote a letter to Hitler under the context of "facing Nazi oppression", in which the Watchtower Society is made to sound as if they were firmly against the Nazi regime. NB: It is interesting to see that the new history book of JWs, “God’s Kingdom Rule” does not speak much of the events. "Therefore, on June 25, 1933, a declaration regarding their ministry and its objectives was adopted by Jehovah's Witnesses at an assembly in Berlin. Copies were sent to all the high government officials, and millions more were distributed to the public. Nevertheless, in July 1933 the courts refused to grant a hearing for relief. Early the following year, a personal letter regarding the situation was written by J. F. Rutherford to Adolf Hitler and delivered to him by special messenger. Then the entire worldwide brotherhood went into action. On Sunday morning, October 7, 1934, at nine o'clock, every group of Witnesses in Germany assembled. They prayed for Jehovah's guidance and blessing. Then each group sent a letter to German government officials declaring their firm determination to keep on serving Jehovah." - Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimer's Of God's Kingdom p.693 It is quite surprising to find the opposite is true, which can be identified when reading the content of Rutherford's 1933 letter to Hitler and the Declaration of Facts. |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by ChristianFreedo(m): 12:11pm On Mar 03, 2017 |
Letter to Hitler Russell, founder of the Watchtower, was a Zionist 1 and sympathetic to Jews as part of modern day fulfilment of Bible prophecy. Rutherford initially continued such support, but changed by the 1930's to a bigoted, anti-Semitic stance. "Be it known once and for all that those profiteering, conscienceless, selfish men who call themselves Jews, and who control the greater portion of the finances of the world and the business of the world, will never be the rulers in this new earth. God would not risk such selfish men with such an important position" The Golden Age 1927 Feb 23 p.343 "The Jews were evicted from Palestine and ‘their house left unto them desolate’ because they rejected Christ Jesus, the beloved and anointed King of Jehovah. To this day the Jews have not repented of this wrongful act committed by their forefathers. … In 1917 the Balfour Declaration, sponsored by the heathen governments of Satan's organization, came forth, recognized the Jews, and bestowed upon them great favors. ... The Jews have received more attention at their hands than they really deserved." Vindication - Book II (1932) pp.257-258 During the time of Rutherford, Witnesses became known as a religion of hate, due to the Watchtower's tirade of insults against other Churches and governments (It is important to note that the watchtower had since change this pattern of operation, they do not insult other religion or government directly as was done during the time of Judge Rutherford, at least, they are more diplomatic in their speeches concerning other religion and government). The Catholic Church come under the greatest condemnation and bought this to the attention of the Nazi government, petitioning against the Watchtower Society. In 1933, the Nazi government banned the Watchtower's German operations. “In June of the so-called “Holy Year” of 1933 Adolf Hitler’s regime seized the Watch Tower Society’s property in Magdeburg and banned the activities of Jehovah’s people in Germany as regards meetings and literature distribution, though the property was returned that October.” Yearbook 1975 p.174 In an effort to overturn the ban, Rutherford sent a Letter and a Declaration to Hitler, in which he praises Hitler for his anti-Anglo/American campaign and his stance against the Jews.    Following is part of an English translation of the Letter to Hitler. " Dear Reichskanzler, … The Brooklyn headquarter of the Watchtower Society is pro German in an exemplary way and has been so for many years. For that reason, in 1918, the president of the Society and seven members of the board of directors were sentenced to 80 years in prison, because the president refused to use two of the magazines published in America under his direction for war propaganda against Germany. These two magazines, "The Watchtower" and "Bible Student" were the only magazines in America which refused to engage in anti-German propaganda and for that reason were prohibited and suppressed in America during the war. In the very same manner, in course of the recent months the board of directors of our Society not only refused to engage in propaganda against Germany, but has even taken a position against it. The enclosed declaration underlines this fact and emphasizes that the people leading in such propaganda (Jewish businessmen and Catholics) also are the most rigorous persecutors of the work of our Society and its board of directors. This and other statements of the declaration are meant to repudiate the slanderous accusation, that Bible Researchers are supported by the Jews. The conference of five thousand delegates also noted - as is expressed in the declaration - that the Bible Researchers of Germany are fighting for the very same high ethical goals and ideals which also the national government of the German Reich proclaimed respecting the relationship of humans to God, namely: honesty of the created being towards its creator. The conference came to the conclusion that there are no contradictions when it comes to the relationship between the Bible Researchers of Germany to the national government of the German Reich. To the contrary, referring to the purely religious and unpolitical goals and efforts of the Bible Researchers, it can be said that these are in full agreement with the identical goals of the national government of the German Reich. ... We are looking forward to your kind approval, which we hope to receive soon, and want to assure our highest respect to you, honorable Mr. Reichskanzler. Yours faithfully, Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society Magdeburg" The letter mentions Hitler's "just principles," quoting from section 24 of Das Program der NSDAP (The Nazi's Platform of the National Socialist German Workers Party). Rutherford further compromised Watchtower principles but offering that, "We want to continue to live up to the prohibition imposed upon us," that is, they would stop preaching in Germany, provided the ban was lifted that would allow them to "meet for prayer and church service". Follow this link for Letter to Hitler for a translation of the full letter in PDF format. {http://www.jwfacts.com/pdf/letter-to-hitler.pdf} The Yearbook 1974 briefly refers to this letter, along with the Declaration of Facts. "The conventioners returned home tired and many were disappointed. They took 2,100,000 copies of the "declaration" home with them, however, and made fast work of distributing them and sending them to numerous persons in positions of responsibility. The copy sent to Hitler was accompanied by a letter that, in part, read: "The Brooklyn presidency of the Watch Tower Society is and always has been exceedingly friendly to Germany. In 1918 the president of the Society and seven members of the Board of Directors in America were sentenced to 80 years' imprisonment for the reason that the president refused to let two magazines in America, which he edited, be used in war propaganda against Germany." Even though the declaration had been weakened and many brothers could not wholeheartedly agree to its adoption, yet the government was enraged and started a wave of persecution against those who had distributed it." Yearbook 1974 p.111 In light of the contents of the official letter and Declaration sent to Hitler, the Watchtower's 2011 comment mocking other Churches is nothing short of hypocritical. "Did Hitler receive letters of protest from church officials concerning the outrages perpetrated by the National Socialists, or Nazis? There were some, but such letters were few and far between. In the Moscow archives, however, Eberle found a file containing a number of letters sent to Hitler by Jehovah's Witnesses from different parts of Germany, protesting against the conduct of the Nazis." Watchtower 2011 Oct 1 p.14 Footnote: 1. http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/zionism.php |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by ChristianFreedo(m): 12:11pm On Mar 03, 2017 |
Declaration of Facts Rutherford and Knorr organized a public convention in Berlin on 25th June, 1933 to release a "Declaration of Facts," being pronouncing at the German convention, and distributed in letter format. This outlined Watchtower's support of the German governments stance against Jews. The convention hall was decked with swastikas and the program was opened with Song 64, a song from the Bible Student's songbook that had the some melody by Hayden as the German national anthem. Konrad Franke, Germany's Bethel branch overseer later stated his disturbance at seeing the scene for the convention and Rutherford's declaration. "When we entered, we found the hall bedecked with swastika flags! But not only that: when the meeting started, it was begun with a song that we had not sung for years, especially not in Germany, because of the melody ... the melody of "Deutschland, Deutschland uber allies"! Can you imagine how we felt? Many could not join in the singing. It was as though their throats were throttled. What kind of leaders did we have who brought us [into] such dangers - and the danger of faltering under these circumstances-instead of helping and supporting us, so that we could take a fearless stand [against Nazism]." Translation of Konrad Franke's speech from Jehovah's Witnesses and the Third Reich, Penton, p.25 The Declaration of Facts was reprinted in the Yearbook 1934. It went on in part to state: "It is falsely charged by our enemies that we have received financial support for our work from the Jews. Nothing is farther from the truth. Up to this hour there never has been the slightest bit of money contributed to our work by Jews. We are the faithful followers of Christ Jesus and believe upon Him as the Savior of the world, whereas the Jews entirely reject Jesus Christ and emphatically deny that he is the Savior of the world sent of God for man's good. This of itself should be sufficient proof to show that we receive no support from Jews and that therefore the charges against us are maliciously false and could proceed only from Satan, our great enemy. The greatest and the most oppressive empire on earth is the Anglo-American empire. By that is meant the British Empire, of which the United States of America forms a part. It has been the commercial Jews of the British-American empire that have built up and carried on Big Business as a means of exploiting and oppressing the peoples of many nations. This fact particularly applies to the cities of London and New York, the stronghold of Big Business. This fact is so manifest in America that there is a proverb concerning the city of New York which says: The Jews own it, the Irish Catholics rule it, and the Americans pay the bills. The present government of Germany has declared emphatically against Big Business oppressors and in opposition to the wrongful religious influence in the political affairs of the nations. Such is exactly our position. Instead of being against the principles advocated by the government of Germany, we stand squarely for such principles, and point out that Jehovah God through Christ Jesus will bring about the full realization of these principles and will give to the people peace and prosperity and the greatest desire of every honest heart. A careful examination of our books and literature will disclose the fact that the very high ideals held and promulgated by the present national government are set forth in and endorsed and strongly emphasized in our publications and show that Jehovah God will see to it that these high ideals in due time will be attained by all persons who love righteousness. Let us remind the government and the people of Germany, that it was the League of Nations compact that laid upon the shoulders of the German people the great unjust and unbearable burdens. That the League of Nations compact was not brought forth by the friends of Germany." Yearbook 1934 pp.134-138 (English Edition) Follow this link for an English translation of the full Declaration of Facts in PDF format. {http://www.jwfacts.com/pdf/declaration-of-facts.pdf} Rutherford's Letter and Declaration were an effort to appease Hitler, but to no avail - too little, too late. With Rutherford's efforts at appeasing Hitler into lifting the Watchtower ban not achieving its aims, Rutherford instead started to antagonise Hitler through his publications. “On October 7, 1934, the ... speaker announced that congregations of Jehovah’s witnesses world wide were meeting today in order to send cablegrams to Hitler, all at the same time, asking him to refrain from persecuting Jehovah’s witnesses in Germany.” After praying to Jehovah, each group sent the following cablegram: “Hitler Government, Berlin, Germany. Your ill-treatment of Jehovah’s witnesses shocks all good people of earth and dishonors God’s name. Refrain from further persecuting Jehovah’s witnesses; otherwise God will destroy you and your national party.”” Yearbook 1975 p.174 These cablegrams read: "Hitler Government, Berlin Germany. Your ill treatment of Jehovah's witnesses shocks all good people of earth and dishonours God's name. Refrain from further persecuting Jehovah's witnesses; otherwise God will destroy you and your national party" Rutherford send another letter to Hitler, this time threatening Hitler with the punishment of God if the ban on Jehovah's Witnesses was not lifted. "You may successfully resist any and all men, but you cannot successfully resist Jehovah God. ... I demand that you give order to all officials and servants of your government that Jehovah's Witnesses ... in Germany be permitted to peaceably assemble and without hinderance worship God.... If by the 24th day of March, 1934, there is no response to this earnest demand and nothing done by your government to grant the relief of the aforesaid Jehovah's Witnesses in Germany, then God's people in other countries will begin the publication throughout the nations of the earth of the facts concerning Germany's wrongful treatment of Christian people there; and having delivered the testimony, we will submit our case and leave it to Jehovah God by and through Christ Jesus to administer the punishment of the guilty ones in His own good way. Permit me to remind you that Jehovah warns that no one shall oppress His anointed." Images appearing in magazines meant to antagonize Hitler further  Golden Age, 1936 July 15, p.651  Golden Age, 1937, March 10, p359  Golden Age, 1937 March 10, p366 This later aggression of Rutherford towards Hitler no doubt exacerbated the strong stance Hitler took against Jehovah's Witnesses, and they would have suffered less had Rutherford acted more reasonably and with concern for the safety of German followers. The result was that Jehovah's Witnesses suffered unspeakable atrocities in Nazi concentration camps, with an estimated 1,200 dying. Many individuals displayed tremendous courage and conviction, and it is tragic that this unnecessary suffering was a result of the words and actions of their leader, Judge Rutherford. Watchtower Justification An Awake! in 1995 makes it appear that Nazi opposition was because Witnesses did not support Nazi ideologies, concluding; "The Nazis did not intend to tolerate any refusal to support their ideology." Awake! 1995 Aug 22 p.7 Yet, this was not the sentiment of the Declaration of Facts, which tried to portray sharing similar ideologies with the Nazis, such as when stating; "The present government having declared adherence to the aforementioned high ideals, we are persuaded that the rulers do not desire to knowingly resist the progressive witness work to the name of Jehovah God and his kingdom which we are now carrying forward." In 1943 the Swiss Watchtower Branch sent another Declaration of Facts 1 requesting leniency for Witnesses. This dishonestly stated: "We expressly state, that our association neither commands nor recommends, nor in any other way suggests, acting against military orders. Questions of that sort are dealt with neither by our congregations nor in the Society's published literature... We have at no time presumed and at no time shall do so, to view the performance of military duty, as laid down by your statutes, as an offence against the principles and aspirations of the association of Jehovah's Witnesses." The information covered above is discussed in greater detail by M. James Penton in Jehovah's Witnesses, Anti-semitism and the Third Reich; The Watch Tower Society's Attempted Compromise with Nazism. 3 See also Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Third Reich (M. James Penton, Toronto: University of Toronto Press 2004). The watchtower also published an article on the August 22, 1995 Awake, with articles on "The Holocaust: Who Spoke Out?" this article can be found in the watchtower library both offline and online. Professor James Penton, on receiving the Awake, wrote an open letter to the watchtower hierarchy. Below is the content of the letter. Milton G. Henschel, President Footnote: 1. http://www.jwfacts.com/images/hitler-declaration-facts-swiss-1943.rtf |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by ChristianFreedo(m): 12:12pm On Mar 03, 2017 |
A seeming response to Penton's article on “Jehovah's Witnesses, Anti-semitism and the Third Reich” was provided by the Awake! in 1998. I leave it up to the reader to assess whether the Watchtower correctly presents the intention of the Rutherford and his documents to Hitler. "Concerned about the rising tensions in Germany, Joseph F. Rutherford, then president of the Watch Tower Society, together with the Germany branch office manager, Paul Balzereit, decided to mount a campaign to inform Chancellor Hitler, government officials, and the public that Jehovah's Witnesses posed no threat to the German people and the State. Rutherford evidently believed that Hitler was unaware of the attacks against Jehovah's Witnesses or that he had been misinformed by religious elements regarding the Witnesses. Therefore, the Magdeburg office arranged a convention to make use of the German citizens' right of petition. On short notice, Jehovah's Witnesses from all over Germany were invited to the Wilmersdorfer Tennishallen in Berlin on June 25, 1933. About 5,000 delegates were expected. Despite the hostile atmosphere, more than 7,000 courageously attended. The delegates adopted a resolution entitled "Declaration of Facts." This document protested the restrictions that had been put on the work of the Witnesses. It made a clear statement of their position and denied charges of seditious links with political causes of any sort. It stated: "We are wrongfully charged before the ruling powers of this government. … We do respectfully ask the rulers of the nation and the people to give a fair and impartial consideration to the statement of facts here made." "We have no fight with any persons or religious teachers, but we must call attention to the fact that it is generally those who claim to represent God and Christ Jesus who are in fact our persecutors and who misrepresent us before the governments." … Some now hold that the 1933 Berlin convention and the "Declaration of Facts" were attempts on the part of prominent Witnesses to show support for the Nazi government and its hatred of the Jews. But their assertions are not true. They are based on misinformation and on misinterpretation of the facts. … By means of the "Declaration," the Witnesses strongly denied accusations of financial involvement or political ties with Jews. Thus, the document stated: "It is falsely charged by our enemies that we have received financial support for our work from the Jews. Nothing is farther from the truth. Up to this hour there never has been the slightest bit of money contributed to our work by Jews." Having mentioned money, the "Declaration" went on to denounce unfair practices of big business. It said: "It has been the commercial Jews of the British-American empire that have built up and carried on Big Business as a means of exploiting and oppressing the peoples of many nations." This statement clearly did not refer to the Jewish people in general, and it is regrettable if it has been misunderstood and has given cause for any offense. The "Declaration" also reminded the government of its own promises. The Witnesses upheld certain high ideals, and these happened to be publicly espoused also by the German government. Among these were family values and religious freedom. In this regard, the "Declaration" added: "A careful examination of our books and literature will disclose the fact that the very high ideals held and promulgated by the present national government are set forth in and endorsed and strongly emphasized in our publications, and show that Jehovah God will see to it that these high ideals in due time will be attained by all persons who love righteousness." Thus, the Witnesses never expressed support for the Nazi Party. …"-Awake! 1998 Jul 8. CAUSES OF PERSECUTION Historians including Canadian Michael H. Kater, Christine Elizabeth King from England and Austrian Wolfgang Neugebauer have suggested the extraordinary animosity between National Socialism and Bible Student teachings was rooted in the similarity in structure of both ideologies, which were based on authoritarianism and totalitarianism and which each believed had a monopoly on the "truth". Kater wrote: "Just as the National Socialist ideology, so were also the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses dominated not by a democratic but an authoritarian policy. Both systems were totalitarian in that they strictly integrated national comrades as well as fellow believers into the respective authoritarian structure and requested them to give up their own personal identity for the objectives of the system. While the National Socialists accepted the ""Führer State", the "Earnest Bible Students" submitted to the "Theocracy", in which not the Führer, but Jehovah, was the dictatorial ruler. Since both groups claimed exclusiveness, this inevitably had to result in conflict. A Bible Student who had devoted himself to Jehovah was in no way able to carry out the duties that the National Socialist State demanded of him as a national comrade." Garbe accepts that both ideologies claimed to represent the "epitome of truth", demanded the person as a whole, tolerated no questioning of ideology and also held a common belief in salvation utopias for certain parts of humankind and the vision of a Thousand-Year Reign. But pitted against a considerably more powerful organization, the religion's efforts were doomed to fail. German writer Falk Pingel argued that the source of controversy between the Bible Students and National Socialists was their determination to continue their religious activities despite restrictions and Garbe, noting that the increasing repression by authorities simply provoked the religion's determination to go underground and maintain their activity, concludes that "the extraordinary severity with which Jehovah's Witnesses were persecuted resulted from a conflict that gradually escalated in an interaction of action and reaction ... the authorities responsible for the persecution always responded with increasing severity to the continuous stubbornness of the IBSA members". He said the National Socialists were baffled by an opponent that, convinced it was being directed by God's channel, did not back down under intensified persecution, as expected. He wrote: "These factors could have contributed to the fact that ... efforts to break their resolve were intensified and even more brutal. From this point of view, the IBSA members contributed to a certain extent to the severity of the NS actions, but this certainly does not mean that they intentionally provoked these measures." Penton noted that in August 1933 then branch overseer Martin Harbeck directed members that they should cease distributing literature and holding meetings without police permission. (At the beginning of 1934 the branch chief he had temporarily replaced, Paul Balzereit, issued a similar instruction.) He said the organization's later decision to abandon caution and direct members to intensify their preaching efforts was a "reckless" behavior that caused Witnesses and their families more suffering than was necessary. Hitler, Penton argued, had become highly popular with the German populace by 1936, yet Witnesses persisted in distributing a Rutherford booklet that described the chancellor as "of unsound mind, cruel, malicious and ruthless". He said the international campaign to swamp Hitler with telegrams of protest in October 1934 infuriated the chancellor and was a major factor in bringing greater governmental persecution on them. Citing Dietrich Hellmund's description of their "incredible public militancy", he wrote: "Jehovah's Witnesses were the most stridently outspoken conscientious objectors in the country, and the Nazis had no intention of putting up with them ... No movement can constantly heap insults on all other religions, the business community and national governments in the way that the Bible Student-Jehovah's Witnesses did from 1918 onward without provoking a reaction." NAZI MOTIVES TOWARD JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES Many Jehovah's Witnesses are quick to claim that the motive of Hitler was to eradicate Jehovah's Witnesses in Germany. This is mainly because watchtower have always been claiming same. However, what was the motive of Hitler and his oppressive movement towards Jehovah's Witnesses? Scholars are divided over the ultimate intention of the Nazi regime towards Jehovah's Witnesses. Garbe believes the Gestapo considered members of the religion to be "incorrigible" elements who had to be ruthlessly eliminated. The 1934 telegram protest had prompted an "hysterical" Hitler to vow that "this brood will be exterminated in Germany" and he repeated the threat in August 1942.[44] Watch Tower Society writer Wolfram Slupina claims the Nazis "attempted to consign the Witnesses to oblivion by systematically exterminating them". But Penton has argued there is abundant evidence that the Nazis had no intention to eradicate Witnesses. Since they were viewed as ordinary German citizens, the Nazis hoped to break their resistance and compel them to renounce their faith and declare loyalty to the Third Reich.[45] Quoting Jehovah's Witness Jolene Chu, Penton wrote: "Capitulation, not annihilation seems to have been the Nazi goal for the Witnesses, despite the fact that Hitler had declared about them in 1934, "This brood will be exterminated!" The Gestapo and SS applied the usual torture methods, and in the process hundreds of Witnesses died. But a clue as to the Nazi aim of breaking the Witness resolve is found in a remarkable document offered repeatedly to Witness prisoners — a renunciation of their faith and a pledge of loyalty to the fatherland."  Nazi renunciation document According to Penton, further evidence that the Nazis did not consider Witnesses inherently candidates for destruction in the same way as Jews, Romanis, and homosexuals, is that almost no Jehovah's Witnesses were gassed, and they were often employed domestically by the SS and in other jobs with significantly better conditions, improving their chances of survival. SOURCES FOR FURTHER READING 1. http://www.bible.ca/jw-penton-3rdreich.htm (Jehovah's Witnesses, Anti-semitism and the Third Reich: The Watch Tower Society's Attempted Compromise with Nazism) 2. http://www.bible.ca/jw-penton-3rdreich.htm#anchor55577 (KONRAD FRANKE'S TESTIMONY) |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by Titheman(m): 12:12pm On Mar 03, 2017 |
What? |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by Titheman(m): 12:15pm On Mar 03, 2017 |
ChristianFreedo: ChristianFreedo: ChristianFreedo: ChristianFreedo: ChristianFreedo: See the hight of stingyness only u post only u wan take all the top 4 positions God forbid |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by pressplay411(m): 12:23pm On Mar 03, 2017 |
Interesting |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by thinkdip(m): 12:37pm On Mar 03, 2017 |
I have always known JW to be a hypocritical and devilish society, they more or less act like an occultic group. 1 Like |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by oceania100(m): 2:10pm On Mar 03, 2017 |
The Apostate on the loose again. Don't forget, your reward is waiting for you... 2 Likes |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by ChristianFreedo(m): 12:41pm On Mar 06, 2017 |
oceania100: In Jesus' words, weep for yourself, weep for your love ones and your children, (Compare Lu 23:28), because "if" there is any semblance of fact or truth in "the apostate lies"? Then Jehovah's Witnesses are to be most pitied among men. |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by olaolaking: 1:20pm On Mar 06, 2017 |
ChristianFreedo:I think this statement suits you more. 1 Like |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by Jozzy4: 1:35pm On Mar 06, 2017 |
olaolaking:  dont mind the fellow, Slandering is their work. One beautiful thing that I admire in the Witnesses at that time is They Refuse to Kill or participate in the War . for me, its commendable. @ op , Am askin again: Show me something better ? 1 Like |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by olaolaking: 1:42pm On Mar 06, 2017 |
Jozzy4:What you have just said is a food for taught. There is no religion that has preached and practice peace and love like these people. Unless I see. But my worries are "he is still among them, associating with them, but trying to tell us he is different from them. Is that not enough reason for him to weep for himself? |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by ChristianFreedo(m): 3:06pm On Mar 06, 2017 |
Jozzy4: Even if Jesus come to the earth to show you something better, you will not believe him, you will not listen to him. You will still ask him, "show me something better" 1 Like |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by ChristianFreedo(m): 3:08pm On Mar 06, 2017 |
olaolaking: @bolded, start a genuine, open minded search, again. |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by Jozzy4: 3:21pm On Mar 06, 2017 |
olaolaking: Lmao, so he is one of them ? Black sheep |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by Jozzy4: 3:24pm On Mar 06, 2017 |
ChristianFreedo: Next time comprehend well , When I said show me something better , am asking you to show us how the information you post above Encourage people in drawing close to God , what other option do you have for them ? Any suggestion to aid their search for truth ? If u fail to answer the above, you are just a slander whose aim is to ruin his fellow man not help |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by ChristianFreedo(m): 3:38pm On Mar 06, 2017 |
Jozzy4: Does being dishonest about your history help people to be drawn to God? Whatever is based on lies cannot genuinely be true. It can only cause people to have a false sense of things, which is what is happening. Rather, exposing falsehood is a christlike thing to do. I'm exposing falsehood and will continue to. JWs of all people should understand that. 1 Like |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by Jozzy4: 4:00pm On Mar 06, 2017 |
ChristianFreedo: Dont deceive yourself you are only giving excuses . when Jesus expose , he show people the way . not just slandering and digging up irrelevent things like u are doing, The fact remains they didn't disobey the clear instruction to not kill. COMMENDABLE act of obedience and loyalty to God So Man, which way do u intend to show? |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by ChristianFreedo(m): 4:22pm On Mar 06, 2017 |
Jozzy4: Looking at the bolded, this is the part the watchtower is always eager and quick to point out. And that's the only part JWs know, isn't it? However, note that 1. The leaders display anti-Semitism. They praise Hitler for his stands against the Jews, they also cause many witnesses to suffer by displaying extremism, even when Jesus had precisely warned his disciples that they should run to a different region if when they are persecuted in one region. 2. Who determines what is irrelevant? You? The organisation? The readers will determine what is irrelevant and what is not. Its my work to let them know everything, both sides of the story, and what the organisation decides to hide from them. And by the way, if they were irrelevant things, the organisation should have been the first to present them, not hide them or misrepresental them. 3. When watchtower decides to present falsehood, is it an excuse to expose it? All I can see is that you are only trying to make excuses for them. 4. To your question, where do I go to? Right? The thought stopping questions? The only question that scares people? Forcing them to continue to slave for human organisation, an organization that views such ones as their flock, answerable to them, subject to their will. My answers is. Why do I need to go anywhere? Which is effectively following men? I feel no need to “go” anywhere. For I know the One who has the “sayings of everlasting life.” I appreciate the strengthening companionship of those I have with whom to associate (either personally or by websites) and hope that the future will add to my acquaintance with yet other sincere persons whose concern is for truth, not simply in doctrine, in words, but as a way of life. I am simply trying, then, to be a Christian, a disciple of God’s Son. I cannot see why anyone would want to be anything else. I cannot understand how anyone could hope to be anything more. |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by analice107: 4:36pm On Mar 06, 2017 |
Jozzy4:I was hoping you'd refute his Op rather than call it slander. Is it true or not? Did WJ play twoface? 1 Like |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by Jozzy4: 4:40pm On Mar 06, 2017 |
ChristianFreedo: Noises , They didnt kill . thats what interest God Almighty .
How do u follow Jesus ? And how do u keep the obligation exected from belivers to always meet together ( Heb 10:24,25 ? Am interested in your answers |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by ChristianFreedo(m): 4:44pm On Mar 06, 2017 |
Jozzy4: This is where you show you true self. And is exactly as I have known about JWs. Most are all hypocrites, living a form of godly life but when real situation occurs, they show their true self. I answered your questions and all you can say is Noises. At least, the readers can see now that most of jws are a show. I have no more answer for you. Those interested in know what is true will know. I have valuable research that will increase my knowledge and faith in God and Jesus to get back to. I have no more time to answer you. 1 Like |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by Jozzy4: 4:55pm On Mar 06, 2017 |
ChristianFreedo: You have never answered the question I asked man , dont resort to cheap emotional blackmail , Remember my first question to you Show me something better . Instead of replying you started covering your self with You are exposing etc, and been christlike . But funny enough, Christ doesnt Talk without showing the relevant way If truly u are Christlike , I asked Which way do u intend ahowing with the post ? Till this moment u havent answer Only for u to claim u follow Jesus, Now answer me, How do u follow Jesus ? How do u Obey the instruction that Belivers of Christ should meet together ? Failure to reply all this means u are a slanderer AND NOT Christlike in any way cos as for Christ , he make sure he shows the way for people to follow |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by ChristianFreedo(m): 5:07pm On Mar 06, 2017 |
Jozzy4: Good for you. |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by plus7(m): 10:46pm On Mar 07, 2017 |
ChristianFreedo: Check the bolded above....... @OP: what are you, who are you?? I refuse to see substance in ALL your posts because you are two-faced. Why not decide where you belong and stand up to what you beleive. N.B. my comments in a topic you posted with link below explains my point better: https://www.nairaland.com/3575389/should-true-christians-celebrate-birthdays/1#53307333 I hope you understand me sir. Gracias! |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by plus7(m): 10:59pm On Mar 07, 2017 |
ChristianFreedo: @OP: brother you just personally hit the nail on the head(at bolded above). Heed the advice you gave above, stand for something. Let everybody around you know what you stand for since you are fully convinced you are on the right track doing the right thing. |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by ChristianFreedo(m): 10:34am On Mar 08, 2017 |
plus7: You know the organisation of Jehovah's Witnesses are led by men that are really smart and curny. They have so indoctrinated their followers in such a way that if anyone says or alleges that their leaders are not faithful or truthful, the first thing that will trigger in the minds of the followers will be "either the person has committed a sin, and disfellowship, or his trying to hide his sins or is trying to escape from preaching or is trying to make excuses" (As you may have realised, JWs, elders, Ms, pioneers do commit sins and still remain in "good standing" , do assignment, lead in field service etc and no one knows.) Whatsoever reason to divert attention from the points raised or made. Anything at all. I saw it happened to me when I started raising questions and objective to some biblical applications. First thing they will ask of you is to wait, wait for the organisation to clarify, and if you persist, they will start claiming "Satan is using you, you are trying to hide one sin or another and whatever have you". I have seen it before, I know it all. Its a systematic way the organisation uses to shut people up and the jw followers are tools used by the men controlling the organisation. The point is, if I am outside the organisation to present these issues, it will simply fit into the script played by the organisation. It will be easy for the organisation to say and for people to believe that "this people is just some person that want to smear the organisation with wicked lies" or most" fittingly" "he was disfellowshiped, tell the world what you did" as I was said when I posted about the regional convention, and I had to refute the claims. But when I am inside, with a clean standing, detailing what is wrong with the organisation, it will be very easy for outside observers to know that something is wrong, that it's not just about the 'fine, shirt and tie wearing, with smile faces' they see offering attractive books with pictures. It will clearly show that something is wrong at the core and that some people are aware of it. More so, it will be easy to talk with fellow witnesses, draw they attention to errors and misapplications, something that can't ever happened if I am outside and their head is filled with "Satan is using you". Also, you can ask, why not go to the organisation and complain, why bring these things to public knowledge? Why not handle them discreetly? The answer is simply, it had been tried many times over, it simply doesn't work. When these issues becomes a matter of public knowledge, it will force the men controlling the organisation to change or try to defend their position which will lead to more errors. Also, more will become aware. So, it's also about creating public awareness. Also, many before us had tried to make the men controlling the organisation to try to follow the Bible, in most cases it got them burnt severely. Late bro Ray Frank, Edward Dunlop, to name just a few, they all tried. It didn't work, neither will it work in the future. The men controlling the organisation feels they are above reproof, above corrections, they opinions are all that matters, everyone must subject to them, irrespective of whether they are wrong. So, all that remains is "make it a matter of public knowledge" , it seems to be the only thing the men controlling the organisation is afraid of. Then the matter of take a stand, let everyone know. My guess is, you mean, "leave the organisation. Just leave and keep on your work". My answer to that is very simply, I can't for now. I'm not ready yet to lose my family. You can make new friends, new neighbours, new love ones. But when you lose your family, you can't get them back, especially when they are under the influence of mind control techniques. So, I can't. At least for now, I am not prepared for such loss. However, I am considering my options. Thanks for your advise anyway, I appreciate. I know you will not understand for now, because you are not in my shoes. I hope you will understand in future. |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by Jozzy4: 8:08pm On Mar 08, 2017 |
ChristianFreedo: You behave like a Coward , now you have edited your response , hehehehe I guess your conscience disturbs you to reason on the question . Stop this half response ; @ Bold, who are those with whom you Choose to Associate and Study the bible ? Or you want to start a new Church ? stand up frankly ! and tell the way u intend showing your readers, dont just hide in caves if your intent is not to bring your fellow man to ruin with your mouth like an apostate - Prov 11:9 |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by Jozzy4: 8:16pm On Mar 08, 2017 |
ChristianFreedo: I know its a matter of time before you show the kind of person you are , didnt you say you want to follow Christ and Be his Disciple ? Lol, yet you could made that statement in red . "The one who loves his father or mother more than me isn't worthy of me, and the one who loves a son or daughter more than me isn't worthy of me." - Matt 10:37 ISV @ the statement in red . How can anyone take someone like you serious ? 1 Like |
| Re: Jehovah’s Witness And Hitler Germany: What The Watchtower Never Says by ChristianFreedo(m): 9:17pm On Mar 08, 2017 |
Jozzy4: Jozzy4post=54399566] I'm not going to insult you. But you are free to. I edited to give a better response and you are not going to force me to any decision, please try to rest your case. And that's my last response to you. |
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