Terracota,
You have to cross check your story. OBJ did not bring Okonjo Iweala to global prominence. Why didn't other past ministers of Finance negotiate for a debt reduction or rise to global prominence. If it were possible, Nedi Usman or Adamu Ciroma could have done it. I wonder if they would have gotten Gordon Brown's attention because of their track records. Iweala did not carry a Nigerian baggage that would have been counter productive.
By the way, OBJ did not hire Iweala in the first place. She was on sabbatical and came to work in Enugu in conjuction with Soludo, Dr. Ogbu and Co, then the presidency got hold of her to work on budget matters, free of charge- only her accommodation and feeding were paid. She was done, wanted to go back and OBJ asked her to stay, She accepted the job and it happened that Dept of Budgeting would reside in OBJ's bedroom and she resigned, Baba had to agree on her condition. She was calling the shots when she was working for OBJ, and we all know OBJ as someone who does not like his authority challenged

TerraCotta:

Afam--so many Nigerians are driven by irrational logic that they miss the basic truth of your statement. The last sentence is especially relevant. These reports haven't even convincingly established that Okonjo-Iweala was seriously considered for the job, in my view. There's also this weird idea that Okonjo-Iweala resigned out of disagreement with Obasanjo--it might comfort some people, but there's simply no proof to back it up. She's been interviewed by the BBC since and had nothing but gracious words to say about him. Then it comes out that her husband was being blackmailed for sleeping with his ex-mistress around the time that she left the job. Coincidence?

I don't know why it's so hard for some of us to be impartial--OBJ is no saint, and he's definitely made mistakes, but there's no reason to believe he's plotting to ruin a woman he hired and brought to national/global prominence in the first place.

@TerraCotta,

That is what pisses me off, you see these guys turn logic on its head once OBJ comes into the equation, at times I just feel like throwing up.

How can these same people clamour or advocate for a better Nigeria when they effortlessly twist issues and argue illogically?

@Topic,

I have read interesting posts on this and I will only make some comments.

1. Iweala was brought to limelight by virtue of her position as the finance minister in Nigeria not based on the VP of a part of IMF. She did not have enough authority to take decisions concerning the IMF assmuning the IMF President was away. Such positions are strategically given to people who can influence certain decisions mainly based on country of origin.

2. IMF in itself is a failed institution with so many failed policies in many countries. There are countries that have even decided not to honour any debt payments because the IMF grant loans and insist on implementing the projects in such a way that the projects will never recoup the money spent.

I joined a live online collaboration setup by IMF about 3 years ago and they requested questions from participants and these questions were posted live and responses provided as the questions were asked. I asked IMF to name countries that have benefitted from its policies as many of the countries that had collected IMF loans went from bad to worse.

No response was given and after about a week, I got a detailed response to the simple question I asked ( a great departure from the set rules for the online meeting that was held). Needless to say the responses were neither here nor there. So, in essence working in an institution no matter how popular does not translate into being an asset afterall Enron boasted of Phd holders yet it went down. Even in Nigeria, Cadbury is going the same way - fraud, falsification of financial statements etc.

3. Just like Dick Cheney (VP USA) left the chairmanship position at Harliburton to become the VP of the US (which is a positive career move by any standards), our dear Okonjo Iweala move from the VP of a section of IMF to a prominent position as the Finance Minister of the most populous black nation on earth, a country that IMF would do anything to do business with for that matter.

4. As regards disagreements between Iweala and OBJ concerning being removed as the head of the economic team, it is perfectly in order for her to be removed as the head since she was moved from finance ministry to external affairs ministry lest she begins to give instructions to the new finance minister.

In conclusion, I maintain that it is highly illogical for one to shower praises on Iweala for a job well done while she was the head of the economic team and yet maintain that OBJ did not do anything good while in power even when the state of the economy is the usually quoted criteria for judging the performance of OBJ and the current administration.

But as usual, we agree to or believe what is convenient for us to agree to or believe regardless of the correctness or otherwise.

Quote from: docokwy on January 19, 2007, 03:56 PM

Obasanjo is a selfish traitor who wants everything good in Nigeria to come from him alone. His messianic tendency is suffocating. He should be tried for treason after leaving power. The story must be true because Oyibo people (here I mean every light-skinned persons) generally do not have secrets. If you gossip somebody to them, they end up telling the person that you said so, so, and so. Therefore the new UN secretary general may have told the press precisely why Mrs. Iweala was eventually not appointed.

They dont see it as wrong (where do we have the notion that its wrong sef?).

Gossip is their way of life and they see it as a past-time. Their gossips knows no bounds.

_{That is why the gossip will end up with the person who is "gossipped"}

Afam

we are talking about Global Prominence and not National Prominence, no one knows Adamu Ciroma or the present Nenadi Usman in the globe. If being the finance minister in africa's most populous nation means global prominence by default. Please tell us what is going on with Nenadi Usman. How many times has she attracted the likes of Paul Wolfwitz since then?

buluti:


Quote from: TerraCotta on Yesterday at 04:04:38 PM
I was waiting for someone to bring this up. Tell me--do you think Okonjo Iweala's vice presidential role at the World Bank would have put her in line to be considered for VP of the UN without her tenure as Finance minister?

The quote above seems to be at variance with your earlier conclusion below.

Quote from: TerraCotta on Yesterday at 02:50:07 PM
These reports haven't even convincingly established that Okonjo-Iweala was seriously considered for the job, in my view.

Interesting--I don't see any contradiction. I don't know of any certain independent verification that Okonjo-Iweala was seriously considered for the UN position. The only mention I found of it in non-Nigerian sources before the current round of speculations was a Financial Times article from the beginning of this month that mentioned her as a candidate. By the way, that article cited her achievements as Nigeria's former finance minister, not VP of a World Bank section, for the reason that she was being considered.

Then you go ahead to site the Australian newspaper stating her as a remarkable woman.

I think she's a remarkable woman--I'm not quoting the Australian newspaper. Just my own conclusion after reading about her.

There seems to be an "irrational logic" somewhere.

I absolutely agree--the 'irrational logic' is scapegoating Obasanjo for whatever internal issues the UN may or may not have had with the remarkable Mrs. Okonjo-Iweala

No one is pinning anything on OBJ, just like no ones pinning the killing of Princess Diana on the MI5 or MI6, but an inquiry has been set up and without a jury.

I'm not much given to conspiracy theories, so I actually think your comparison of this thread to the Princess Diana controversy is relevant. Sometimes bad things happen to good people--there's not always an unseen international conspiracy behind every unfortunate event. I'm confident that Okonjo-Iweala will continue to shine in whatever position she chooses to pursue after all this. I sincerely hope she runs for election in Naija, actually. Any impartial observer, however, will agree that her term as finance minister was crucial to her gaining political experience, exposure, and consideration for those types of opportunties.

adconline:


Terracota,
You have to cross check your story. OBJ did not bring Okonjo Iweala to global prominence and By the way, OBJ did not hire Iweala in the first place.

are incompatible with the rest of your statement when you say

OBJ asked her to stay, She accepted the job

It's a small point to me, though--if you honestly think OBJ had nothing to do with hiring Iweala and bringing her to global prominence, then what can I say? We will disagree as gentlemen and allow our reading public to decide on the evidence

She was calling the shots when she was working for OBJ, and we all know OBJ as someone who does not like his authority challenged

I don't know Obasanjo, actually--maybe that's why I think the excessive speculation around his motives and personality are unwarranted. If I met him and saw his supposed tyrannical machinations up close, as some of you appear to have, perhaps I'd blindly agree with you. As it stands though, it's more logical to believe that Okonjo-Iweala's departure last year had more to do with her husband's toto-induced peccadilloes and honest 'family matters' than this grand conspiracy design some people were and are pushing. It's also likely that the resulting FBI investigation into his blackmail may have affected her chances at a high-profile position like UN vice president. That's pure speculation--I have no proof of it, but the difference between me and the journalists pushing this Obasanjo conspiracy is that I can say that up front without worrying about lowering the credibility of my newspaper or raising the ire of my editor. Either way, Mrs. Okonjo-Iweala delivered for the nation in a big way and can boast of a more impressive career track record than I can (so far), so more power to her

Afam--Na so o, my brudda. It's an outgrowth of our 'cult of personality' outlook. Some day we will look beyond individuals and see our issues as structural, society-wide problems rather than the product of one or two unpopular people.

McKren: Two factors contributed to Okonjo-Iweala's fame. First, she headed the team that negotiated debt relief at a time when the West had finally accepted the unfairness of these debts and was willing to do something about it. Second, she was working for an administration that had the willpower and courage to pay off the excrutiating national debt--something that no other Nigerian leaders had been willing to do since we started accumulating loans in the '70s or thereabouts. That's my view, anyway. Nenadi Usman and Ciroma may never get as much public praise as Okonjo-Iweala--and for all I know, they are not as talented or driven--but objectively speaking, there are reasons beyond Okonjo-Iweala's innate "star power" or whatever for her global prominence.

@ Afam

I thank you for your response but a lot of your statements in my opinion are based on wrong facts and are so incorrect and false.

Afam:

1. Iweala was brought to limelight by virtue of her position as the finance minister in Nigeria not based on the VP of a part of IMF. She did not have enough authority to take decisions concerning the IMF assmuning the IMF President was away. Such positions are strategically given to people who can influence certain decisions mainly based on country of origin.

That is so untrue as it has been rightly pointed by Mckren why is Adamu Ciroma and other previous Finance mininster not in Global limelight. She previously had Global respect in the international finance community, what you should say is that her performance as Finance Minister and Head of Economic Team in Nigeria improved that image she previously had. It was her performance, and previous work experience and not being Finance Minister.

Afam:


1. Iweala was brought to limelight by virtue of her position as the finance minister in Nigeria not based on the VP of a part of IMF. She did not have enough authority to take decisions concerning the IMF assmuning the IMF President was away. Such positions are strategically given to people who can influence certain decisions mainly based on country of origin.

2. IMF in itself is a failed institution with so many failed policies in many countries. There are countries that have even decided not to honour any debt payments because the IMF grant loans and insist on implementing the projects in such a way that the projects will never recoup the money spent.

The two statements you made above are so far from the truth, you need to understand how these bilateral organisations operate.

Okojo Iweala was not VP of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) as you wrongly stated. She was VP and corporate secretary of the World Bank Group, which consist of 5 institutions, the IBRD, IFC, ICSID, MIGA and the IDA. In her position as VP she ran the adminstrative functions of the world bank group co-ordianting the activities of these five institutions while being the secretary to the board. Its similar to the role of the VP of the UN, the responsibilities involve running the administrative day to day functions and activities thereby not bugging down the Sec. Gen and in the World Bank the president unnecessarily, this was what made her attractive for the position of UN VP and not being Finance Minister, she had relevant previous work experience.

Please the statements you made are really misleading

Your summary that she did not have authority and that it was based on country of origin is about the most incorrect statment i have read about these institutions. Please note her country of origin had nothing to do with her been VP of the World Bank Group it was based purely on merit.

Another False statement is on Dick Cheney. Please note Dick Cheney has been in American politics since 1974 and in no way did VP of the US bring him to limelight read about him in the link below. He has served under at least 4 US presidents.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/vicepresident/

Finally on your conclusion on why Okonjo Iweala was dropped as head of Economic team and resigned i wont be quick to comment,  but why was it few months later OBJ realised there would be authority issues with the Foreign affairs minister leading the economic team. Read about Okonlo-Iweala in the link below. Though its wikipedia it would provide some information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngozi_Okonjo-Iweala

I have been reading your statements and that of Terracota keenly to really ascertain the level of knowledge you use in making conclusions. Its clear you are not in the social sciences and i quite appreciate that, but still education has imbibed knowledge and understanding in us all.

On the average Nigerians are rational people, you need to understand human behaviour and the socio-political environment of Nigeria to understand why people jump into conclusions. As a nation there is a history of mistrust and irresponsibility on the part of the political class. Little events and opportunities that could have built credibility on the system have always been thrown away e.g. till date has anyone been convicted of the killings of  Dele-Giwa, Kudirat Abiola, Bola Ige and other political killings. When you dont convict and put to rest such things, what the govt has achieved is fuelling this conspiracy theories passing it on to generations yet unborn. Is there a story on who killed murutala no we know its Dimkha and that story has been put to rest forever.

The human mind recollects and acts in the sub-conscious thereby developing a personality. Your personality is a function of a lot of things and there are few theories (Sigmund Freud is a good read on this)  "Psychoanalysts along with humanists, believe that the complex inner world of the individual must be taken into account when observing their behaviors" quote from Freud. The behaviour of Nigerians are no differenct form others in the world, its a function of our environment, culture, childhood, perceptions etc, a lot of factors are at work.

Whilst am in no way supporting irrational and quick conclusions, i do understand where the Nigerian people are coming from, its actually "logical behaviour". It is desirable to trust the govt and not run into conclusions but when the very establishments are run in secrecy and dishonesty the result you get is people always making quick conclusions and conspiracy theories.

You guys hold on to facts from the govt it is good and your personality type might be desirable in our environment but it is in no way better than the other personality types.

I really wont stand and watch the Nigerian people criticised unnecessarily becos we are not patient to understand behavioural traits and try to understand why Nigerians act the way they do, please lets stop insulting ourselves in this forum and else where making statements that we are irrational, illogical etc.

All over the world the behavioural traits are similar, people respond to their envirnments in different way. In a society run properly and to the best of their abilitieis, people understand the shortcomings and wait for outcomes of inquiry and the court process before jumping to conclusions, but when the court process never end and the people perceive the societies are not run to the best of the human resources abilities available, we get what we currently have.

Afam,
If Iweala performance could be used as a yardstick to access OBJ, then it will all be possible to use Borishade's performance as a yardstick to measure OBJ too. Let it be known that OBJ is not a minister but a president who presides over 29 ministries. I wish that you would tackle my previous points on this topic.

The very fact that many Nigerians did not know Iweala before her Job in Naija does not mean that she is not a global economic player. She had not worked in Nigeria, I wonder how many Nigerians in diaspora Nigerians know of. Let's not be fooled with this most populous black nation, who cares about population? "Nigeria" in World Bank and IMF matters is a big liability. Let's get over with this population thing unless we are over saturated with NTA propaganda. S/Africa is 1/3 of our population, but their GDP is 4 times bigger than Nigeria's. As a matter of fact, a bank in South Africa can afford to buy all our oil. Iweala was able to speak their language and she got the job done. Nigeria originally did not qualify under Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) category and she pressed and got a good deal for us. The very fact that some people may not agree with her policies does not make her an unknown figure. Bretton wood Institutions , Paris Club and multilateral institutions will always respect and trust someone who has a global market experience like Iweala.

@Buluti,

You may bring up her day to day job schedule at IMF if you wanted to do so, my point remains that she never had any authority to act on behalf of the IMF if the Preseident was away.

Arguing about limelight concerning Iweala maybe be like arguing about Dick Cheney in the US and it makes no sense. Prior to Iweala being appointed the finance minister in Nigeria only countries that had business with IMF would have good reasons to know her and that would even mean a few people in the top echelon that negotiate with IMF on behalf of the country.

The statement below is neither here nor there because I am sure the performance you are attesting to is based on the finance minister portfolio and not UN VP. Of course, no one is throwing away her previous job experience but that job experience was not what made Iweala well known all over the world today unless you have another motive that is far from noble in your arguement.

It was her performance, and previous work experience and not being Finance Minister.

On Dick Cheney again you miss the point, serving under Ford and subsequent presidents did not bring Cheney to the limelight unless you assume that US alone means the world in your eyes so if those in US know him then the world knows him.

Your explanation as regards why Nigerians (loosely speaking) tend to behave the way they do is not an excuse, there is no point justifying things that could be done properly or correctly, it is always better to do things right than to do them wrong and attempt to justify them.

@adconline,

No bank in South Africa can afford to buy all our oil, this statement is so fundamentally wrong.

Nigeria did not qualify under HIPC because the world bank and IMF know too well that Nigeria is way too rich not to repay the debts with crazy interest rates that may keep the debts being rolled over for eternity.

I do not know where you got the idea that Iweala's performance should be used to judge OBJ, my point is that finance ministry had direct influence over the economy of the nation and if people are praising her while she was there then it means that she must have done positive things in the Nigerian economy and if that is the case then it is illogical for anyone to say that the economy under OBJ has been a mess unless Iweala is being praised for being a woman and not her performance.

And yes, OBJ should take the responsibility for the failures in the aviation industry since he is the head just as it is correct to praise him for any successes recorded by any ministry under his administration, this is both common sense and logical.

I did not bother replying your previous points because it was a great distraction from the points being made on this thread, I do not work for the government neither do I act as its image enhancing agency, I discuss issues concerning Nigeria based on what is on ground and voice my displeasure when people twist issues and find it difficult to separate issues from personalities.

I have very good reasons to rate OBJ over 50% just as you believe you have yours to rate him lower, your choice. And by the way, I do see over 80% of power supply everyday and make up the rest by using an inverter backup system that we build to gurantee uninterrupted power supply for close to 2 years now both at home and in my office.

@ Afam,

You still are making very wrong and misleading comments.

Again i correct your false statement she was not VP IMF she was VP World Bank Group, whether the president is away or not she is in charge of the day to day activities of the secretariat, please i hope u get this. She takes decisions whether he is around or not and if he has to be absent maybe on vacation, there is a proper delegation in place. The responsibilities can be delegated to her, the office of the VP World Bank Group is not a charade or ceremonious position as you may want to think. Its not her job schedule am bring in am correcting wrong statements.

When you say countries that had business with the World Bank Group it shows how little you might understand the subject, please note not the IMF, it seems you really dont understand the functions of billateral institutions e.g. IBRD was in charge of building post war Europe and now its mission is much wider not only in Europe but to fund developmental projects round the world, hence the name WORLD BANK GROUP.

Please note i am in no way advocating for things to be done wrongly, i only provided an explanation of human behaviour staing that Nigerians are actually acting logical in the manner they act. The conspiracy theories are enhanced and encouraged in the environment and as such people make conclusions on their own. Statement like we act illigical, irrational and "cult of personality" are false and wrong statements.

Its good you have 80% supply of electricity and have a system in place that guarantees uninterupted power supply really thats good and commendable, but that might suggest why you are really not in touch with the policies of the govt.

On the average majority of Nigeria cannot boast of 40% constant electricity and you have 100% so definately you would agree with the statements and statistics of the govt and see no logic in people complaining. Its logical behaviour you are exhibiting.

@ Afam

As a diversion I would want to address certain erroneous statements you made in your earlier post that I chose to ignore. You said the IMF wanted to do business with Nigeria and that you were involved in a life debate where they couldn’t answer your questions.

ASK ME NOW I WILL ANSWER IT FOR YOU IF YOU CAN REMEMBER.

Let me stay with the IMF since it seems you want to talk about IMF. The IMF is an international organization that consists of countries it started small with about 40 members and has grown to over 100 countries. Basically as the name applies it is a fund, Member countries contribute to the pool, so based on the volume of contribution you are allocated executive and voting powers. The functions of the IMF has been quite clear and hasn’t change, it lends to nations that have negative balance of payments, provides technical assistance while striving to monitor the loans providing certain guidelines which has come to be known as the "IMF conditionality". I think there are about 14 conditionalities. It is these conditionalities that many frown at as it is a set of rules that countries must follow if they want to access the funds.

The debate is that the rules are too tight for the developing world as it commands them to open their markets removing barriers to trade and certain other macro economic policies. It is actually the Globalization debate, critics state that these policies might do more harm than good on the developing nations though they recognise it might put restriction on govt and frivolous spending. It’s an academic debate and I won’t bore you.


The point is that countries are not forced to access the funds if you join or access the funds then obey the conditionalities. So please the statement that they wanted to do business with Nigeria is erroneous they do business with all member nations.

You stated you were involved in a debate on why the IMF has had little impact on the developing world and concluded as if they had something to hide, yes the conditionalities particularly the removal of tariffs and other trade barriers might work against the developing world, it is not an evil in its totality. It’s the developing countries govts that are using the funds for white elephant projects.

Please I wait for the questions you posed to the IMF, with my little knowledge I will try to provide an answer.

Another diversion on Dick Cheney i was again correcting a misrepresentation which you still stand on. This guy has been in involved in world politics serving as deputy in the office of the president he is involved in diplomatic maneuverings round the world. The facts that the press does not celebrate those behind the scene and as such people that follow issues on the surface might not know them doesn’t mean they’ve not been around. So I am not seeing the world in the eyes of the US, I am correcting the false statement that Dick Cheney was not well known in international circle.

My mistake on IMF, I meant World Bank Group, every single reference to IMF should read World Bank.

@Buluti,

Any answers you may have as regards the question directed at the World Bank in the online gathering remain yours just like I can receive over 1 million answers if the same question is posed to over 1 million people.

On your comments about 80% power supply and what I use to make it up, it is the same baseless response like this one that made me not to bother replying adconline with the list he provided because different people will obviously rate the performances based on their perculiar experiences.

On Dick Cheney, you may need to know the difference between someone coming to limelight and someone being in a position of authority. The key word here is visibility, I will not waste my time debating such issues where there is no end in sight because I must agree to what you say.

NB Still on Iweala, I do not know what you need to hear to understand how her appointment with Nigeria shot her into limelight. I could not lay my hands on a document that clearly spelt out her role while at the World bank and I decided to use the search engine hoping to get relevant information especially from the world bank website but over 95% of the information you will get on Okonjo Iweala will be based on her work in Nigeria and not the World bank.

If time permits, do see the following link http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTSITETOOLS/0,,contentMDK:20147466~menuPK:344189~pagePK:98400~piPK:98424~theSitePK:95474,00.html

I will still make available verifiable information as regards the position of Iweala while at the World bank especially her level of authority.

Afam--I agree with you. Mrs. Okonjo-Iweala's replacement is a [url=http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/NEWS/0,,contentMDK:20129335~menuPK:34491~pagePK:36880~piPK:36882~theSitePK:4607,00.html]nondescript Ghanaian[/url] with many years of international experience, but hardly someone that you would call globally prominent. The issue is not really worth debating--serving as finance minister during the debt renegotiation/payment cycle is the major reason why she was considered for the UN job. Again, it just seems counter-intuitive to say that there were economic improvements during her time as finance minister, but then suggest that it had little or nothing to do with her being considered for one of the most powerful positions in the international relations arena. It also doesn't make sense to claim that Obasanjo plotted to ruin her chances when he has been working with the woman since the year 2000.

Being Nigerian doesn't preclude any of us from being objective and honest.

@ Afam

Well clearly you make a lot of mistakes.     its a good virtue to acknowledge mistakes.

Clearly your question to the World Bank might have been a political question becos issues especially pertaining to these bilateral institutions and their activities centre around the same principles. However  its in those 1 million answers to questions that you broden you horizon on subjects, not just looking at things from one point of view.

On Okonjo: Am not argueing that being Finance Minister helped her profile, i agree, but my point is that it was her performance as Finance Minister. She already commanded good respect  in international finance circles and this contributed to her success particulalry in the debt work out and thats what adconline was stating.

I agree being Finance Minister was relevant to her fame at home and abroad, however more importantly to the international world was her fame as UN VP, not her fame as Finance Minister. Taking on a political office which she performed in helped and made her more visibly at home and abroad but not in the face of those that take decisions, cos they already knew her.

Same on Dick , Visibility to who to the world or to those in diplomatic circles.

I just quoted you on the power supply, i have no issues with what you use to make it up or how you source it, i said it was commendable and perhaps if you can help with the technical knowledge it might help others here, especially if it might not require huge capital to install, But i noted that having 80% supply from NEPA (or any other source) definately affects your views on the current govt's policy,  so you see no logic in disagreeing with a performing govt and why people are complaining.

The link you provided is just a confirmation of the structures i stated earlier, so i dont see the relevance. It would be nice for you to read through.

For clarification and avoidance of doubt my aim is no way to co-erce you into my views but to provide sunstantial theoretical principles for you to see things from a larger perspective and to understand rational behaviour, particularly becos i notice you waive a lot of things as sentiments and irrationality a lot. I seek for you to understand sentiments how it is arrived at and how it can be corrected.

I do respect your views and the views of others in here, i believe strongly in diversity and the strenght thereoff. I believe these difference could make us stronger and wealther as a people and as a Nation if we can harness it. I believe it would be bettter if we all seek to understand ourselves and explain our views clearly.

I believe in moving my position in the face of superior arguements based on theoretical and sound principles but not when issues are simplified in a manner that shows clearly limited understanding.

@ Terracotta thanx for providing info on the new UN VP but as you noted years of international experience. This is the factor it seems you are removing. If you noted he is a seasoned technocrat working in the World Bank since 1978 just as Okojo joined through the Junior professional or something. The president of the World Bank in case you haven't noted is a political office appointed by the US and perhaps maybe a US citizen becos they are the largest donor to the fund.

You noted her nomination as UN VP was based on her success as Finance Minister during the debt work out, but would Adamu Ciroma have achieved the debt work out that she achieved. I argue the presentation of issues matter and she was able to present our issue in the light the Breton Woods institution understand i.e. being a HIPC nation.

If you noticed I am not in argument about OBJ's performance though in my opinion the govt has left much to be desired, I agree that the economic reform should be ascribed to OBJ becos he allowed it, but that's not enof to give him a pass mark.

I disagree with your summary that simplifies all issues into being Nigerian becos it was the international media that started the speculation in the first place. The discussion is about the possibility of OBJ affecting the chances of OKonjo and in arriving at that we have tried to consider her fame with or without the Finance office and the possibility of the personality of OBJ affecting the outcome, its a debate.

@Afam

^{No bank in South Africa can afford to buy all our oil, this statement is so fundamentally wrong.}

Ans:  Standard bank group has an asset value of over 109 Billion dollars as compared to our national GDP of $188.5 Billion )
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ni.html
http://www.forbes.com/finance/mktguideapps/compinfo/ForeignCompanyTearsheet.jhtml?cusip=B030GJ7

_{Nigeria did not qualify under HIPC because the world bank and IMF know too well that Nigeria is way too rich not to repay the debts with crazy interest rates that may keep the debts being rolled over for eternity.}  
ANS:   Nigeria is not a rich country, but has the potentials to be rich. We are in the lowest percentile of UN  Human Development Index. Let's not make assertions we cannot substantiate. The interest rates were agreed upon by Nigerian greedy officials, they had an obligation to say no. Instead, they took loans hoping that they would be kept  in Swiss accounts.

_{I do not know where you got the idea that Iweala's performance should be used to judge OBJ, my point is that finance ministry had direct influence over the economy of the nation and if people are praising her while she was there then it means that she must have done positive things in the Nigerian economy and if that is the case then it is illogical for anyone to say that the economy under OBJ has been a mess unless Iweala is being praised for being a woman and not her performance.}

ANS:Iweala was like a treasurer and maintained account records of all government agencies, but it was  the president who had the responsibility to ask Tony Anenih what he did with N350 Billion Naira appropriated for his ministry, even though we still have bad federal roads . Should Iweala ask Imoke how he expended his allocation to improve power generation in the country. In capitalist economy, its the central bank that controls the economy not ministry of finance. Iweala did a great by being accountable and other ministries failed, that's why her success was not felt across the board ok. No doubt OBJ's appointment helped her image globally, but she is not a politician but a technocrat.

_{I have very good reasons to rate OBJ over 50% just as you believe you have yours to rate him lower, your choice. And by the way, I do see over 80% of power supply everyday and make up the rest by using an inverter backup system that we build to gurantee uninterrupted power supply for close to 2 years now both at home and in my office.}

ANS: Yes, you have the right to rate OBJ above 80% but can it be subjected  to a coventionnal mathematical test? ie 50% in all 29 ministries or 80% in 16 ministries?  The very fact that there are some people who still believe that the world is flat does not make it true. There are some conventional facts like Line of equator is 0 degree, 24hrs =a day. It does  not prevent others from generating their own opinion.

@Terracotta,

Honestly, the problems in Nigeria are caused by the so called educated ones that shamelessly twist very cear issues and end up going round the bend.

@Buluti.

I always acknowedge my mistakes when I make them not when someone (wrongly) thinks that I have made mistakes.

My post was to question why Iweala should be praised for doing so well as the finance minister and the same people wil maintain that the economy under OBJ's govt is a mess.

Now, you agree that se did well and aso agree that it is right to ascribe her successes to the administration she was part of, so what is your problem?

@adconline,

Our GDP is not our total asset and yet even the number you posted is far more than the total asset of the bank that you believe can buy our oil. Does it make sense to you?

simple queston: does the un secretry general need objs permission to appoint his own staff? the answer is no. so why blame obj?

Sijien--there is poetic beauty in the simplicity of your question. One gbosa for you, jare

Clearly a lot of us dont know what protocol is all about.

Assuming the OBJ factor is a hoax i cant imagine how we would think such an appointment would be made without certain representations and consents.

I guess if you work in a company and you need to be seconded the approval of your MD is not required. What Logic.

Afam,
Is our national GDP not worth more than our oil? It shows you that a bank in S/Africa is worth more money than half of our population in terms of consumption+investment +government spending+ (export-import) yet we are a rich country. Let's put these numbers in perspective. Our oil sale is about $30 billion and a bank is worth about 4 times that amount. If 60% of Nigerians live under 2 dollars a day, I wonder what it takes to make over$100 billion dollars. It also shows that we are not a rich country as you espoused.

If we are a rich nation, about 70 million Nigerians would worth about US $14285.71 each in order to have about$100 billion collectively, or simply put that a bank is worth more than 60% of what Nigerians have. Does this show a rich a nation?

@adconline

Admit you've made an error in judgement. Our yearly GDP is bigger than Standard Trust's asset base and you still think they can buy all our oil?. . .Use your brains. Assets are often bigger than the income they earn (GDP in this case). If your GDP is 188billion dollars, our asset base might as well be as big as $1 trillion.

Think of asset base as a stock and GDP as cashflow that comes from using that asset.

If we are a rich nation, about 70 million Nigerians would worth about  US $14285.71 each in order to have about$100 billion collectively, or simply put that a bank is worth more than 60% of what Nigerians have. Does this show a rich a nation?

Don't be dumb, GDP is not what we're worth. This is simple accounting here, there's a difference between stock and flow. Flow is GDP, asset base is a stock which is often way bigger than the flow it will generate.

How did you get yourself entangled in such a bad argument and misrepresentation?. . .If you want to compare, take Standard Trust Gross Sales figure and compare it with our GDP. Ok?

Donzman,
I was making a reference that a bank could afford to buy oil which accounts for about 90% of foreign exchange earnings. My reference to oil was based on production output not our reserve because I cannot place a value on it ok. May this is the misunderstanding. Common understanding of a GDP is consumption + investment + government spending + (exports − imports) and yet we have 50% of Nigerians living under $2 dollars a day. I wonder how much someone who earns that amount would worth anyway. Mind you this was a response to the fact that we are so populous and rich and I said that S/Africa has 4times higher GDP than us even though it is 1/3 of our population. I never said that S/A bank is worth more Nigeria.
Besides, it was a response that Paris Club/IMF would not grant us debt relief because we did not qaulify under HIPC

@adconline

We're indeed RICH and WEALTHY. We have fertile lands, thick rainforests, oil, manpower and etcetera. Why are we not bringing in enough income?. . .Inefficiencies in Government and other sectors. We're not maximizing what we can get from our capital base. Bill Gates is worth 50billion USD or so but he sure does not make 50billion USD a year.

There is a difference between income and wealth, stop mixing them up. You might have wealth but do not have a clue how to use it to acquire income flow, that is the problem with Nigeria.

Donzman,
I beg to differ, we are not rich, but have the potentials of a rich nation. Potentials dont translate to wealth if they are not harnessed. Of what use is our arable land when its not productive. Of what use is our manpower when its not engaged in production that will add value to the economy. If we are talking about rainforest, Brazil will become the wealthiest country in the world with Amazon river.

At the moment, we are not wealthy with half of the population living in poverty. I find it puzzling that no naija bank could handle $500 million from our foreign reserve by shoring up its capital base to $1 billion.

If we are talking about rainforest, Brazil will become the wealthiest country in the world with Amazon river.

Maybe you'll like to read up on Brazil and the money they've made from Rubber and Timber exports.

At the moment, we are not wealthy with half of the population living in poverty.

. . .And we have guys like Alams being caught with $2million cash and the case of Tafa Balogun is there to see. There is wealth, it's just not equally distributed.

Potentials don't translate to wealth if they are not harnessed. Of what use is our arable land when its not productive.

The land is productive but it's not being used to produce anything. Again, the capital base is there but the managers do not know how to harness that capital to reap benefits. This does not mean that the capital base has suddenly disappeared or no longer exists.

I'm done with this argument. Just wanted you to realize that there is a difference between capital stock and Income flow. The comparison between Standard Trust and Nigeria was flawed from every possible angle.

The very fact that Alams made away with $2 million does not make Nigeria a rich nation. I wish you compare our GDP with Bostwana's. It seems that you are still mixing things up with what Nigeria will be in ideal situation, not its present condition, the wealth is not distributed properly, so half of the population is poor.

@Donzman,

Thanks for pointing out the mistakes in adconline's position.

@adconline,

All the money that Nigeria ever owed could have been easily settled from money (from say 4-10 Nigerias) stashed away in foreign vaults.

Now, if less than 10 can afford to offset all the debts of a country does such a country qualify to be forgiven for its debts?

Corruption and misappropriation is our problem. I don't know if you are discussing the standard of living (in which case I will agree with you that we are poor) or if you are discussing cash/money releaized from sale of oil (in which case we are a rich nation).

As regards the bank, comparing its capability to being able to buy our oil is a big insult on Nigeria.

Enjoy!

Afam,

All the money that Nigeria ever owed could have been easily settled from money (from say 4-10 Nigerias) stashed away in foreign vaults.
ANS: Any proof to show where this money is stashed? Does stolen money translate to national wealth? This is  like my lost deposit at Savanah Bank that can never be part of my worth.

Now, if less than 10 can afford to offset all the debts of a country does such a country qualify to be forgiven for its debts?

ANS: I wonder where u get the facts to support your claim because these funds are not part of  our  national wealth.  They are contributing to someone's economy. Money invested in America by Nigerians cannot be regarded as Nigerian wealth. We were considered for debt forgiveness  given the fact that we were not able to meet up with  some of our financial obligations.

Corruption and misappropriation is our problem. I don't know if you are discussing the standard of living (in which case I will agree with you that we are poor) or if you are discussing cash/money realized from sale of oil (in which case we are a rich nation).[/color][color=#000099]

ANS: What's is the criterion for  measuring standard of living.  I know you argument that so long as one person is OK, that  people should not complain.  You are OK that  NEPA supplies you with 80% of constant electricity even though half of the country may not share your views. So 1% of Nigeria who stole our money and kept in foreign bank should make us rich? How does their action impact  on Nigerian economy?

As regards the bank, comparing its capability to being able to buy our oil is a big insult on Nigeria.

ANS: Its an insult to me that some of us think that we are so rich, even though our biggest banks cannot shore up their capital base to $1 billion so that they can manage parts of our foreign reserve ($500 million). My argument was based on yearly production because I cannot place a value on unexplored reserves. Even the bank's annual sales represent about 1/3 of our national oil sales.

Dont get me wrong, Nigeria has the potentials of  a great nation  but does  not have  the capacity to translate them into wealth. Soludo is afraid of injecting our foreign reserve into the economy so as not to cause inflation simply because we do not have the capacity to absolve it. Our banking system is supposed to be managing part of that reserve, but because they barely made the N25 Bn benchmark, they cannot  handle huge cash inflow.Our money in JP Morgan Chase making American economy stronger.



carry go

@adconline,

Believe whatever you want to believe but thinking that something is right doesn't necessarily make it right.

Thanks for your time.