"Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system, I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance." -Isaac Newton

"Atheism is so senseless & odious to mankind that it never had many professors. Can it be by accident that all birds beasts & men have their right side & left side alike shaped (except in their bowels) & just two eyes & no more on either side the face & just two ears on either side the head & a nose with two holes & no more between the eyes & one mouth under the nose & either two fore legs or two wings or two arms on the shoulders & two legs on the hips one on either side & no more?" -Isaac Newton

Hmmm. Good quotes that begs the question, who created the perfect designer that designed all these cause him too isn't a product of chance too

jmichlins:
Hmmm. Good quotes that begs the question, who created the perfect designer that designed all these cause him too isn't a product of chance too

GOD must necessarily not be caused, because an infinite regress of "GODs" is not possible.

DoctorAlien:


GOD must necessarily not be caused, because an infinite regress of "GODs" is not possible.

you have just made my day complete. Now you can continue with your joke. Good morning



So you believe the designer came out of nothing but what you can see and feel can't.

Argument from design has the same flaw of every anti-atheistic argument; they all start from the point of conclusion and uses it to prove the existence of god

anything can be proven once you start from the point of conclusion; that's why most theists use the most mundane things as proof of their god; someone on Nairaland 2 days ago claimed he opened wrapper of a pink chewing gum but found a green gum in it and that confirms god

that's how you have people prove god exists by road accident; if everyone dies in the accident it proves god because god knows best; if everyone except one person dies in the accident it also proves god because it was god that spared the person's life, if no one dies, it also proves god because god saved them all

its like you sleeping this night in abuja and waking up tomorrow morning in Porthacourt then try to prove how you got there when there's no one to give you a clue how you got there; you can always make just about any claim on how you did and none could be falsified or proven because you don't have a freaking clue


and then again, all these argument from design, Kalam, Ontological etc are simply arguments for a deistic version of god and simply isn't worth disproving for most atheists; most atheists have got next to no issues with a god devoid of doctrine and claims; Kalam for instance was put forward by a Muslim to prove Allah exists but Christians have hijacked it like it was them

"Creator god" isn't the issue even though we aren't admitting that god definitely exists; its the claim attached to the said god that we are subjecting to scrutiny aka Bible, Koran etc and found it all to be manmade inventions

the issue is......

How do you get from the God who created the Universe to the one who is worried about the skin on the tip of my Dick?

jmichlins:
you have just made my day complete. Now you can continue with your joke. Good morning



So you believe the designer came out of nothing but what you can see and feel can't.

I know that the logic flew over your head. That was why it sounded like a joke.

jmichlins:
you have just made my day complete. Now you can continue with your joke. Good morning



So you believe the designer came out of nothing but what you can see and feel can't.

its called special pleading

what they don't seem to get is that this schematic can be spun around in many unfalsifiable ways too

eg this designer doesn't have to be god, what if the designer of the universe was designed by someone greater and the regress actually stops right there?
they simply presuppose that the regress has to stop on the designer and it turns to infinite regress if it goes even one step further; do you see the problem here?

the special pleading theists use is that the designer of the universe HAS TO BE THE SUPREME BEING and that's mere assertion with nothing to back it up

the designer (if he exists) doesn't necessarily have to be the most supreme being

IS GOD INTERESTED IN OUR LIVES?

It is impossible to conceive that life was not designed by an Intelligent Creator. The intricacy of the structure of the simplest bacterium could not have been achieved by mere blind, disinterested chance.

What about human life, and conscience? Materialism cannot account for the existence of human conscience, nor can it account for the existence of moral obligations. Conscience could only have been put in man by a GOD who wants man to differentiate between right and wrong. And only a GOD who is interested in the lives of His creatures can establish moral obligations, which are not as a result of human opinion.

COULD GOD HAVE BEEN CAUSED?

It is a known fact that no effect can be greater that its cause. The cause has all it takes to produce the effect, and without the cause, the effect would not exist.

GOD caused the universe; therefore GOD is greater than the universe. Now, to suggest that GOD is an effect is to suggest a cause greater than GOD, which suggests a cause greater than the cause of GOD, which suggests a cause greater than the cause greater than the cause of GOD, etc.

This will lead to an endless regress of causes, which is not conceivable. Therefore GOD must necessarily be the first, eternal, uncaused Cause.

DoctorAlien:
IS GOD INTERESTED IN OUR LIVES?

It is impossible to conceive that life was not designed by an Intelligent Creator. The intricacy of the structure of the simplest bacteria could not have been achieved by mere blind, disinterested chance.

What about human life, and conscience? Materialism cannot account for the existence of human conscience, nor can it account for the existence of moral obligations. Conscience could only have been put in man by a GOD who wants man to differentiate between right and wrong. And only a GOD who is interested in the lives of His creatures can establish moral obligations, which are not as a result of human opinion.

pure word salad, that's what happens when you try to move from deism to theism, you need to jump several hoops, teleport and arrive at your version of god

hopefulLandlord:


its called special pleading

what they don't seem to get is that this schematic can be spun around in many unfalsifiable ways too

eg this designer doesn't have to be god, what if the designer of the universe was designed by someone greater and the regress actually stops right there?
they simply presuppose that the regress has to stop on the designer and it turns to infinite regress if it goes even one step further; do you see the problem here?

the special pleading theists use is that the designer of the universe HAS TO BE THE SUPREME BEING and that's mere assertion with nothing to back it up

the designer (if he exists) doesn't necessarily have to be the most supreme being

let us give science the amount of patience we have given religion and we will have the answers we seek and even more

DoctorAlien:
COULD GOD HAVE BEEN CAUSED?

It is a known fact that no effect can be greater that its cause. The cause has all it takes to produce the effect, and without the cause, the effect would not exist.

GOD caused the universe; therefore GOD is greater than the universe. Now, to suggest that GOD is an effect is to suggest a cause greater than GOD, which suggests a cause greater than the cause of GOD, which suggests a cause greater than the cause greater than the cause of GOD, etc.

Therefore GOD must necessarily be the first, eternal, uncaused Cause.

another special pleading

the designer of the universe doesn't necessarily have to be god; I've already shown the possibility up there

god may have designed the designer who in turn designed the universe


mind you, I'm not in anyway admitting that there's definitely a designer, I'm just playing along instead while poking holes

Newton was too smart for atheism. Same with Einstein.

These guys may not believe in God but to become Atheistic because of a lack of evidence can only be rational if their is presence of evidence.

Where is the evidence? How can any thinking man call self Atheist? While the theist may not provide a really palpable evidence how does the atheist logically become atheist?

jmichlins:
let us give science the amount of patience we have given religion and we will have the answers we seek and even more

exactly, "god" is not an answer; god is a placeholder for people who lack the courage to say "I don't know"

hopefulLandlord:


another special pleading

the designer of the universe doesn't necessarily have to be god; I've already shown the possibility up there

god may have designed the designer who in turn designed the universe


mind you, I'm not in anyway admitting that there's definitely a designer, I'm just playing along instead while poking holes

The last line of the post you quoted answers you. GOD, by definition, cannot be caused. He is the Cause of all that exists.

Sapiosexuality:
Newton was too smart for atheism. Same with Einstein.

These guys may not believe in God but to become Atheistic because of a lack of evidence can only be rational if their is presence of evidence.

Where is the evidence? How can any thinking man call self Atheist? While the theist may not provide a really palpable evidence how does the atheist logically become atheist?

"Atheists are not freethinkers; they are free from thinking."

DoctorAlien:


The last line of the post you quoted answers you. GOD, by definition, cannot be caused. He is the Cause of all that exists.

nope, I'm still on Newton

answer me this, does the designer of the universe have to be the supreme being?

let's see how open minded you are

DoctorAlien:


"Atheists are not freethinkers; they are free from thinking."

I wonder how anyone is so converted and shouts down on others for illogic.

Sapiosexuality:
Newton was too smart for atheism. Same with Einstein.

These guys may not believe in God but to become Atheistic because of a lack of evidence can only be rational if their is presence of evidence.

Where is the evidence? How can any thinking man call self Atheist? While the theist may not provide a really palpable evidence how does the atheist logically become atheist?

atheism is not a claim that no god exists

I’ve never heard an atheist scream that God doesn’t exist.

I have heard people scream — literally scream — that He does.

since in this post of yours you admit there's no palpable evidence that god exists
or doesn't exist
I’ll make a deal, those atheists will all stop saying God doesn’t exist and theists will stop saying He does exit. Deal?

hopefulLandlord:


nope, I'm still on Newton

answer me this, does the designer of the universe have to be the supreme being?

let's see how open minded you are

The Designer of the universe has to be the Supreme Being, if the universe is properly defined.

DoctorAlien:


The Designer of the universe has to be the Supreme Being, if the universe is properly defined.

so its impossible for the supreme being to have made a designer who designed the universe? I hope you're see your fallacy of special pleading

anyways, define "Universe"

DoctorAlien:
COULD GOD HAVE BEEN CAUSED?

It is a known fact that no effect can be greater that its cause. The cause has all it takes to produce the effect, and without the cause, the effect would not exist.

GOD caused the universe; therefore GOD is greater than the universe. Now, to suggest that GOD is an effect is to suggest a cause greater than GOD, which suggests a cause greater than the cause of GOD, which suggests a cause greater than the cause greater than the cause of GOD, etc.

This will lead to an endless regress of causes, which is not conceivable. Therefore GOD must necessarily be the first, eternal, uncaused Cause.

Bro Welldone!
Like I used to say only a fool would not understand this!
These are tools in the hands of the devil to deceive the simple. They will surely be doomed of they dont repent! If this angers them, then, its cos perdition is imminent.
They cant stop us! We are on mission!! See their criticisms as that of a drunkard whose consciousness is but dead and needs awakening.
May God reward your labour in Christ!

enshy:

Bro Welldone!
Like I used to say only a fool would not understand this!
These are tools in the hands of the devil to deceive the simple. They will surely be doomed of they dont repent! If this angers them, then, its cos perdition is imminent.
They cant stop us! We are on mission!! See their criticisms as that of a drunkard whose consciousness is but dead and needs awakening.
May God reward your labour in Christ!

these words have struck my soul

I want to repent, I don't wanna be doomed *sobs"

please I wanna repent

hopefulLandlord:


atheism is not a claim that no god exists

I’ve never heard an atheist scream that God doesn’t exist.

I have heard people scream — literally scream — that He does.

since this post of yours admits there's no palpable evidence that god exists

I’ll make a deal, those atheists will all stop saying God doesn’t exist and theists will stop saying He does exit. Deal?

You've never heard an atheist scream that God doesn't exist? I don't know if you are speaking from a place of entertainment or logic.

My post doesn't admit that a God doesn't exist, don't misinterpret it. It's simply that the evidence provided by theists is not really as palpable as we'd want it to be. It doesn't support the notion you are trying to tag to it.

Deal? That line makes little sense. If the theists and atheists come to such agreement what then? First, you've never heard an atheist say that God doesn't exist but in conclusion we should strike a deal on its cessation. Genius!

Of course atheism is not a claim that no God exists. Atheism is:
A BELIEF that no God exists. Argued with the same FAITH any other Theist argues his religion.

hopefulLandlord:


so its impossible for the supreme being to have made a designer who designed the universe? I hope you're see your fallacy of special pleading

Anything created by the Supreme Being must have begun to exist, and thus must be a part of the universe(creation) which the Supreme Being made.

A proper definition of the universe precludes the existence of any other Creator apart from the Supreme Being.

Sapiosexuality:
You've never heard an atheist scream that God doesn't exist? I don't know if you are speaking from a place of entertainment or logic.

YES!! I've never seen one that isn't a counterclaim

My post doesn't admit that a God doesn't exist, don't misinterpret it. It's simply that the evidence provided by theists is not really palpable. It doesn't the notion you are trying to tag to it.

nope, I understood you perfectly

you're admitting theists don't have palpable proof that he/she/it exists, Atheists don't have palpable proof he/she/it doesn't exist

so? why does one group have the right to scream that he does and the other group can't also claim he doesn't

it simply follows bro, except you're trying to be intellectually dishonest and commit fallacy of special pleading

Deal? That line makes little sense. If the theists and atheists come to such agreement what then?

then they stop screaming and disturbing our sleep with their megaphones and speakers, they stop pushing religion and god into anything and everything, they stop discriminating based on religion, our politicians stop using god and religion as cards in their dishonest ambition there would be one less reason for humanity to be divided

and many more, see?

Of course atheism is not a claim that no God exists. Atheism is:

A BELIEF that no God exists. Argued with the same FAITH any other Theist argues his religion.

I won't dignify the above with a reply

DoctorAlien:


Anything created by the Supreme Being must have begun to exist, and thus must be a part of the universe(creation) which the Supreme Being made.

A proper definition of the universe precludes the existence of any other Creator apart from the Supreme Being.

it seems you needed to define "universe" as "Creation" in order to exclude the possibility of a designer being created by god; whatever god therefore creates is part of the universe; Chai!!!

this is what happens when christians try to argue for deism while still tryna force their Yahweh into it

I can't keep up with such dishonest apologetic

DoctorAlien:
"Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system, I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance." -Isaac Newton

More love ink

hopefulLandlord:


YES!! I've never seen one that isn't a counterclaim



nope, I understood you perfectly

you're admitting theists don't have palpable proof that he/she/it exists, Atheists don't have palpable proof he/she/it doesn't exist

so? why does one group have the right to scream that he does and the other group can't also claim he doesn't

But this one group speak of revelations from a supreme being, speak a strange language(speaking in tongues) which even our science have not shown to be forged, does some healings which their members attest to. Aren't their stories logical enough for a belief in whatever they believe in? I'm not holding brief for theism. Do we just assume they are all lying to themselves?

Now let's look at the atheist. First, the absence of evidence is neither the absence nor presence of existence. The atheist's hold on truth here is on the absence of evidence. Is this logical. Shouldn't criticism and any position come with understanding? What's the 'understanding' behind atheism?

hopefulLandlord:



it simply follows bro



then they stop screaming and disturbing our sleep with their megaphones and speakers, they stop pushing religion and god into anything and everything, they stop discriminating based on religion, there would be one less reason for humanity to be divided

Is this why atheism is more sensible?

hopefulLandlord:


I won't dignify the above with a reply

Then what are we talking about. Isn't atheism a belief? Aren't beliefs built on faith even though there could be sometimes some logic behind them? How's atheism different or even smarter than theism?

DoctorAlien:
"Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system, I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance." -Isaac Newton

deism

DoctorAlien:
COULD GOD HAVE BEEN CAUSED?

It is a known fact that no effect can be greater that its cause. The cause has all it takes to produce the effect, and without the cause, the effect would not exist.

GOD caused the universe; therefore GOD is greater than the universe. Now, to suggest that GOD is an effect is to suggest a cause greater than GOD, which suggests a cause greater than the cause of GOD, which suggests a cause greater than the cause greater than the cause of GOD, etc.

This will lead to an endless regress of causes, which is not conceivable. Therefore GOD must necessarily be the first, eternal, uncaused Cause.

......

So why cant the universe be the first, eternal, uncaused Cause?

And what is your concept of God?