The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity - Religion - Nairaland
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The Plague Of Counterfeit Leaders / The Great Scandal: Christianity's Role In The Rise Of The Nazi. / T.b Josuah(the Rise Of A Nigerian Anti Christ ) (2) (3) (4)
| The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 4:44pm On Dec 19, 2009 |
"Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name . . . and will deceive many" (Matthew 24:4-5). Jesus Christ told His apostles to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in His name. Most people who are familiar with the Bible realize those apostles zealously embarked on that mission. Their converts were first called Christians in the city of Antioch (Acts 11:26). Since then, so many people have been born or converted into the hundreds of denominations known collectively as "Christianity" that it is one of the world's most popular and dominant religions. People assume that all, or at least almost all, who bear the name Christian follow the beliefs, teachings and practices of Jesus Christ. But the Bible tells us that not everyone who accepts the name of Christ is really a Christian. Jesus predicted that some would claim His name but deny Him by their actions. He said they would "call Me 'Lord, Lord,'" but "not do the things which I say" (Luke 6:46). Christ and His apostles spoke of false prophets, false apostles and false brethren. They revealed that two opposing ostensibly Christian religions would emerge. One—the Church Jesus founded—would be led by God's Spirit and remain faithful to His teachings. The other—guided and influenced by a different spirit—would accept the name of Christ but twist His teachings to create a convincing counterfeit of the true Church of God. Both would use Christ's name and claim His authority. Both would perform works that would outwardly appear good and right. Both would claim to be following Christ's true teachings. But only one would faithfully represent its founder, Jesus Christ. The other would capture the minds and hearts of humanity by attaching the name of Christ to biblically insupportable religious customs and doctrines that Jesus and His apostles neither practiced nor approved. The apostles repeatedly warned Jesus' followers to beware of false teachers who would introduce counterfeit-Christian beliefs. Jesus Himself warned: "Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name . . . and will deceive many" (Matthew 24:4-5). The New Testament presents a concise historical sketch of the roots of these two religions that profess to be Christian—one real, one counterfeit. Christ's apostles described the origin of each and their fundamental characteristics. We have already examined the apostles' description of the Church Jesus founded. Now let's look at the record they left us of another supposedly Christian religion—one that distorted and corrupted the truth and grew to become far more powerful and influential than the small Church Jesus promised would never die out. source: http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/CJ/counterfeit.htm |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 4:45pm On Dec 19, 2009 |
Teaching the traditions of men Where do most churches get their teachings and practices? Most of their members assume they come from the Bible or from Jesus Christ Himself. But do they? Jesus commanded His apostles to teach others exactly what He had taught—"teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you" (Matthew 28:20, NIV). He condemned the replacing of God's commandments with traditions and human reason. Speaking to the Pharisees, He said, "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men . . . All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition" (Mark 7:8-9). Jesus taught that His Church should keep the commandments of God: "If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17). He warned: "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied [preached] in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'" (Matthew 7:22-23). He knew that false teachers would arise who would reject the commandments of God for a distorted gospel of no law—lawlessness! Like Jesus, the apostles consistently taught obedience to God. Peter and the other apostles risked their lives to make it clear that "we ought to obey God rather than men" (Acts 5:29). Paul expressed the same commitment he shared with the other apostles—of a life of obedience. "Through him [Christ] and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith" (Romans 1:5, NIV). Paul later cautioned members of the congregation in Colosse to hold fast to what he had taught them. "As you have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught . . ." (Colossians 2:6-7). Following Christ's example, Paul warned the Colossians not to accept traditions as replacements for the commandments of God: "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ" (Colossians 2:8; compare Mark 7:8-9, 13). Why did Jesus Christ and the apostles sound such urgent warnings to avoid the traditions of men? |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 4:47pm On Dec 19, 2009 |
A falling away from truth begins Christ praised the church in Ephesus for refusing to follow false apostles who tried to take advantage of their human nature and seduce them. "I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars" (Revelation 2:2). But not everyone in every congregation followed the example of the church in Ephesus. Many accepted the teachings of the false apostles and reverted to sinning. That is why Peter wrote: "For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them" (2 Peter 2:20-21). People began turning away from the teachings of Christ's true apostles. They accepted the philosophies of false teachers. Peter had explicitly warned that this would occur. He said false teachers would arise "among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed" (2 Peter 2:1-2). Peter anticipated that not just a few—but many—Christians would turn aside from the truth to follow doctrines that were more appealing to the carnal mind. Later John confirms this happened. "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us" (1 John 2:19). Barnabas and Saul (later renamed Paul) encountered a false prophet determined to turn people away from the truth. "Now when they had gone through the island to Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew whose name was Bar-Jesus, who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus . . . But Elymas the sorcerer (for so his name is translated) withstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith" (Acts 13:6-  .On other occasions the problem lay with false brethren (Galatians 2:4). Paul referred to his trials "in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren" (2 Corinthians 11:26). These false Christians had not become a genuine threat just to Paul's safety and effectiveness, but they had also become a significant part of the visible Christian community. Some may have finally gone out from God's special people but continued calling themselves Christian. Others became members of new and supposedly liberated sects that retained the name Christian. Still others probably remained in the fellowship of true believers and over time subverted congregations to their own heretical teachings. A false Christianity was beginning to take a firm hold. |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 4:48pm On Dec 19, 2009 |
True Christians forced out of congregations As the teachings of false ministers gained in popularity, their followers gradually grew to be the majority in some congregations. The apostle John records one such tragic example: "I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to have the preeminence among them, does not receive us. Therefore, if I come, I will call to mind his deeds which he does, prating against us with malicious words. And not content with that, he himself does not receive the brethren, and forbids those who wish to, putting them out of the church" (3 John 9-10). Incredible as it sounds, those who were faithful to the teaching of the apostles were expelled from this congregation. They had become the minority. The majority had chosen to follow Diotrephes, who, in his own lust for power and influence, falsely accused the apostle John. Satan had succeeded in placing his minister over this congregation, expelling the faithful servants of Jesus Christ. Remember, Jesus had already warned His true servants that this would happen: "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves" (Matthew 7:13-15). He also said: "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: 'These people honour me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.' You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men" (Mark 7:6-8, NIV). Now we can understand why Paul explained to Christians in Rome the appropriate response to those who were stirring up division within the Church. "Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them" (Romans 16:17). |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 4:50pm On Dec 19, 2009 |
Counterfeit Christianity dominates By the end of the third century the true servants of God had become a distinct minority among those who called themselves Christians. The counterfeit Christianity had become the majority. False teachers had successfully gained a far larger following than the faithful ministers of God. However, history shows the counterfeit sects were not united in their beliefs. Many factions existed among them. Nevertheless, divided and unconverted as it was, this new brand of Christianity rapidly expanded its membership and became the visible Christian church. Purporting to offer salvation, but without the necessity of real repentance, it held just enough truth to appeal to the masses. In spite of its faults, it appeared to offer a hope unequaled by any pagan religion at that time. None of the pagan religions offered a believable way for people to receive forgiveness of sins and obtain eternal life. This new religion seemed to offer just that. Little did its followers realize that its promises, without real repentance, were made in vain. By the end of the third century this counterfeit Christianity was a squabbling, bitterly divided religion. But at the beginning of the fourth century two things happened that abruptly altered the course of Christian history. First, the Roman emperor Diocletian intensified the policy of many previous Roman emperors of persecuting Christians and ordered that all Christian manuscripts be burned. This dramatically renewed a climate of fear throughout the Christian community. Ten years later another emperor, Constantine, came to power. He had defeated another powerful contender for the right to replace Diocletian as emperor, but he still had many enemies, and his political position remained insecure. In all the empire, only Christians were unaligned politically. Constantine immediately saw an opportunity to use this formerly persecuted and politically alienated religious body to strengthen his hold on the empire. First he legalized Christianity. Then, only two years later, he called all the divided professing-Christian groups together to hammer out a unified system of belief. He wanted a united religious body that was politically committed to him. To achieve this, Constantine presided over doctrinal deliberations and dictated statements of belief whenever disagreements could not be resolved amicably. He soon successfully molded the bickering groups of counterfeit Christians who were willing to accept state control into a strong and unified vassal of the Roman Empire. Williston Walker, former professor of ecclesiastical history at Yale University, tells us that, in 323, "Constantine was at last the sole ruler of the Roman world. The church was everywhere free from persecution . . . But, in winning its freedom from its enemies, it had come largely under the control of the occupant of the Roman imperial throne. A fateful union with the state had begun" (A History of the Christian Church, 1946, p. 111). |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by nuclearboy(m): 8:46pm On Dec 19, 2009 |
Great that you decided to start this thread. Unfortunately, most on NL will want to see your effort as a scam rather than the truth it is. Its these business, political and satan sourced "christians" starting from the emperor Constantine that make it look like there are different ways to christianity and who brought in all the wrong doctrines. But then, its only the truth that satan will do his best to discredit and thats why he has jumped head first into getting so many interpretations, designs and modes of "christianity. Keep up the good work! |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by nuclearboy(m): 9:04pm On Dec 19, 2009 |
The persecutions of the early Christians seemed to do nothing to slow them down. So Satan decided the best thing was to attack them from inside. Constantine the Roman General, was at this time campaigning against another general for control of the seat of Caesar. He was however, seriously disadvantaged militarily. One evening whist thinking about how he could survive the impending battle against his opponent, he suddenly saw in the Skies above him, the sign of a cross and the words "in hoc signo vinces" which mean, "In this Sign, Conquer"! He had his soldiers inscribe crosses in their shields and went against his opponent. In an amazing twist, he won a war in which he has been the underdog. In "gratitude", he decided to become a "christian" and make christianity state religion. The persecutions of Christians stopped and they now seemed in control of the known world. however, it was a surface "political" christianity. It was this Christianity that brought about the ideas of Trinity, of the Pope (Bishop of rome) being God's representative on earth and introduced Christmas and Easter which prior to now, had been pagan festivals. Whist the Sun-God had being worshipped before, now they said it was the birthday of the Son-God. What relevance has the Easter Egg and bunny to the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ? They were symbols of Ishtar, the goddess of fertility who was previously worshiped. To accommodate the pagan Romans who remained relevant in the politics of the day, Constantine allowed them bring in their festivals, holidays, only changing the names. Thus started Satans great deceptive plot to erode Christianity from within. Add to that all the other manner of battles fought by satan to discredit Christianity and the willingness of many so-called "christians" to accept cash, power and influence to help support satans battles. Unfortunately, these things have remained till date and have become a rallying point for all opponents of Christianity who believe these things represent Christ or Christianity. They do not! |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by noetic15(m): 10:14pm On Dec 19, 2009 |
This is how ministries start. . .they all start up by rubbishing all other ministries, . . only to end up in the same \"mess\". I wont be surprised to hear tomorrow that KUNLEOSHOB ministry a.k.a Tither\'s paradise is starting up.   |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by olabowale(m): 3:58am On Dec 20, 2009 |
Is there a real christianity, if the Antioch people so named the movement of Biblical Jesus? I doubt it. Am almost certain there is nothing truly christianity. At 8.00 to 9.00 pm CNN's Faith and Money program this evening, Christine Romans anchor, interviewed Joel Olsteen the pastor of Texas Megachurch about his book "Its your Time" about money, prosperity etc. In all of the defenses that Joel put up defending his gimmick, which is good enough for those who love to consume what he throws up, he surprised me by saying that Christianity started way before Jesus, by the wealthiest man in the east whose name is Abraham! Wow, I said. This dude Joel must have no shame, not abashed about his blatant lie about Abraham. Just imagine if Christianity was started by Abraham, then his children and nephew, Ischmael, Isaac and Lot respectively, and Jacob his grandchild, and his children, all the way to Moses and beyond, all the way in time to John the son of Zachariah must have been Christians. No? If Joel was right, then Jew never was a true religion but only as a tribal name amongs the overall Children of Israel tribal people! If Joel was wrong, then the whole of Christianity was a shamble, or both Christianity and Judaism in one way or another are partially or wholely false. They cant be both 100% pure, either way you look at Joel Olsteen. And my girl Ohsisi follows this guy. Ohsisi, where are you, woman? The reality is that Abraham could not have been a christian, since Jesus was not even a Christian! The reality is that Abraham was not a Jew, in religion or ethnically. I remember a light weight not even heavy enough to be a paper weight asking me to proof that Islam existed before Muhammad (AS). The above is your answer, since Ibrahim (AS) worshipped God his Creator, totally willingly submitting to Him, without the usual resistance, even as to ask "Why", a statement the Bible said that Biblical Jesus questioned God by in his "why has thou forsaken me", when he was on the stake. If it is true that Jesus said "why" to his God, then we have to conclude at least having an opinion that the Biblical Jesus was not a believer. How then can the father of belief, faith, Ibrahim be a christian? Was that like the doubting Thomas, or the denial Peter or betrayal Judas, etc or like the ones who were easily torpidoed by Saul, Paul? Funny idea from Joel. |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by Mavenb0x(m): 4:22am On Dec 20, 2009 |
@noetic: LOL why u dey find the guy trouble? |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 8:55am On Dec 20, 2009 |
noetic15:Given my passion for the true gospel of Jesus christ and my eagerness to see "christians" return to christ, i have often toyed with the idea of starting a ministry. But you have to realize that a ministry is not neccesarily a church movement. Infact if we want to be pragmatic i can say i have already started an internet ministry on nairaland cos i constantly minister to others on this forum on the evils of the false man made doctrine of mordern day compulsary tithing. I have also tried to minister to nairalanders on the true gospel of Jesus christ which is purely based on love, so already i can say i have a ministry. however i do not forsee myself starting a church as this is certainly not my calling. God willing my ministry would be one in which i can materially bless others spurned by the love for others which christ as planted in me. God willing i would start an NGO[my idea of a ministry] in which the focus would be to help the poor and the needy and the focus of my ministry would be motherless babies and orphans. This way i believe i would be able to lead more people to christ than the religious merchants that have mega churches and claim to be men of God. |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by nuclearboy(m): 10:27am On Dec 20, 2009 |
KunleOshob: Sensible and commendable. Just don't derail. Many of those guys started well too |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 10:38am On Dec 20, 2009 |
nuclearboy:Thanx my bro. |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 10:59am On Dec 20, 2009 |
Acts 20:29-30: 29 I know that false teachers, like vicious wolves, will come in among you after I leave, not sparing the flock. 30 Even some men from your own group will rise up and distort the truth in order to draw a following. These false teachers and vicious wolves are rampant today making merchandise of the flock all they are interested in is drawing a following[they call it spreading the gospel] through "church" planting and spreading their own brand. For instance today there is this popular church in Nigeria whose vision is to have a branch within five minutes walk/ drive in every city/ town / village all over the world, whilst this mighton the surface sound as if they are genuinely tring to spread the gospel, the truth is that the motive is self serving calculated at drawing a large followership for their franchise. Acts 20:33-35: 33 “I have never coveted anyone’s silver or gold or fine clothes. 34 You know that these hands of mine have worked to supply my own needs and even the needs of those who were with me. 35 And I have been a constant example of how you can help those in need by working hard. You should remember the words of the Lord Jesus: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’” The passage above is one of my favorite in the new testament and it demonstrates how true christian leaders should live. However it is also a favourite passage of those who twist the scriptures by quoting only the last part of the passage which says "it is more blessed to give than to receive" The twist is that Paul as a preacher of the gospel here is the giver and NOT the receiver contrary to popular church doctrine and he was giving from the sweat of his labour NOT tithes and offerings from the flock. Paul here says he has been constant example of "helping the needy by working hard" how many of our so called men of God today follow this example  Answers any one? On the contrary they are constantly twisting the scriptures to receive from the flock instead of giving to them and teaching them to give to the needy as directed by christ. |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by nuclearboy(m): 11:08am On Dec 20, 2009 |
Is there any way to detail simple ways to recognize these fakes? My wish would be that you find and offer a concise way of understanding what is true and what is not. Your latest post specifying Paul as Giver rather than what obtains today is brilliant. Can you narrow these issues into straight forward specific points/areas whose truths can then be presented? Any support you need, call out |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by PastorAIO: 11:52am On Dec 20, 2009 |
An interesting but diverting point: Where in the gospels can Jesus be quoted as saying, "It is more blessed to give than to receive"? Apart from Paul's quote in Acts where can we find that Jesus said this? 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by nuclearboy(m): 11:59am On Dec 20, 2009 |
Pastor_AIO: in response to your aptly named "diverting point", where does anyone or any level of reasoning say Jesus had to be the one to say so? How does Him not being the source remove from the truth of the statement. Would you then, argue that taking is better socially/spiritually/emotionally than giving? |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by PastorAIO: 12:05pm On Dec 20, 2009 |
I didn't say that Jesus didn't say so, all I asked was where it could be found in the gospels. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 12:13pm On Dec 20, 2009 |
@pastorAIO Apart from the fact that we know a core part of Jesus tachings was about being of help to the poor and needy around us, we ought to know that Paul did not depend on the four gospels we now rely on today as they probably had't been written as at the time paul was ministering. Paul was recored to have been taught directly by Jesus himself who appeared o him after his acension. That apart i am quite aware that there were over thirty gospels written on the ministry and life of christ, however onlt four of them were cannonize by the RCC. It is quite possible that paul got this teaching from the other gospels that were not cannonized by the RCC. |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 12:18pm On Dec 20, 2009 |
nuclearboy:I once wrote an extensive thread on "how the bible teaches us to recognize fake prophets" unfortunately the search option to look for old threads is now missing on Nairaland. i would do my best to find the thread an prove a link to it for your perusal. |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 12:21pm On Dec 20, 2009 |
@nuclearboy Here is the link to the thread on false prophets enjoy https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-316578.0.html |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by nuclearboy(m): 12:25pm On Dec 20, 2009 |
Nice if you could find that. However, over and above such, I want that you seperate into topics like [1] Holiness [2] Faith [3] giving as opposed to taking [4] offerings etc [5] stories in the Bible. Then take each and offer a Biblical understanding so readers see what "a true Christians point of view and the Bible "says rather than what the "system" is preaching |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by noetic15(m): 1:40pm On Dec 20, 2009 |
Given my passion for the true gospel of Jesus christ and my eagerness to see \"christians\" return to christ, i have often toyed with the idea of starting a ministry. But you have to realize that a ministry is not neccesarily a church movement. Infact if we want to be pragmatic i can say i have already started an internet ministry on nairaland cos i constantly minister to others on this forum on the evils of the false man made doctrine of mordern day compulsary tithing. I have also tried to minister to nairalanders on the true gospel of Jesus christ which is purely based on love, so already i can say i have a ministry. however i do not forsee myself starting a church as this is certainly not my calling. God willing my ministry would be one in which i can materially bless others spurned by the love for others which christ as planted in me. God willing i would start an NGO[my idea of a ministry] in which the focus would be to help the poor and the needy and the focus of my ministry would be motherless babies and orphans. This way i believe i would be able to lead more people to christ than the religious merchants that have mega churches and claim to be men of God how would the NGO survive? would u not require donations and contributions from \"others\" ? |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 2:43pm On Dec 20, 2009 |
@Nuclearboy Well i would attempt to tackle your queries, however i must warn that i derive my christian doctrine strictly from the New testament and i see the old testament only as historical references that can provide back ground knowledge to the origins of christianity but not dependable for doctrine. It is my belief that all we need for doctrine as christians can be found within the gospels and the epistles written by the apostles. [1] Holiness The bible calls christians to holy living Ephesians 1:4: 4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 1 Peter 1:15: 15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Holy is defined in the Strong's bible concordance as "morally blameless". Whilst all christians would agree that we should live holy lives most christians equate being religious to being holy, this assumption is very flawed. By being religious to them is to engage in as many church activities as possible and pray ten times a day. But that is not what the bible defines as holy. Holy living is to be morrally blameless. Now a question i would pose here is that is it morally right for a man that claims to be serving God and "holy" to be living a life of extreme luxury based on the tithes and offerings of less priviledge members of his flock? Is it morrally right for a man of God to tell lies? Is it morrally right for such a man to twist gospel to suit his selfish desires whilst he is deceiving the flock tht he is doing it to spread the gospel. [2] Faith This i believe is another grossly misunderstood concept in the bible. Strong's concordance defines faith as "persuasion, credence; moral conviction of relgious truth especially reliance on christ for salvation and truth itself". The bible teaches faith in christ Jesus: Galatians 2:16: 16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. However what does faith in christ jesus mean? Is it just believing he is the messiah or believing in his teachings and demonstrating that faith by carrying out his teachings/ commandments? [this question is a topic for another day as it cannot b dealt with thoroughly withou derailing this thread] [3] giving as opposed to taking I beleive this as already been dealth with in my pevious post were i quoted Paul in Acts 20: 35 [4] offerings etc Whilst offerings are biblcal, the use to which we use most of the offerings collected in churches today is not. The passage below shows that offerings were primarily collected for the poor and the needy amongst the early christians as a demonstration of the love Jesus instructed his followers to share amongst themselves. Today our preachers give the impression that it is meant exclusively to "run" the church or "spread" the gospel contrary to biblical standard. occasionally some of them give a pittance to charity and make a big show of it contrary to biblical injunctions again. Below are examples of how the apostles put offerings collected in church to use. 1 Corinthians 16:1-3: 1 Corinthians 16 The Collection for Jerusalem 1 Now regarding your question about the money being collected for God’s people in Jerusalem. You should follow the same procedure I gave to the churches in Galatia. 2 On the first day of each week, you should each put aside a portion of the money you have earned. Don’t wait until I get there and then try to collect it all at once. 3 When I come, I will write letters of recommendation for the messengers you choose to deliver your gift to Jerusalem. Please note that God's people in Jerusalem were the christians being persecuted by jewish leaders in jerusalem at that time. Acts 4:32-35: The Believers Share Their Possessions 32 All the believers were united in heart and mind. And they felt that what they owned was not their own, so they shared everything they had. 33 The apostles testified powerfully to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and God’s great blessing was upon them all. 34 There were no needy people among them, because those who owned land or houses would sell them 35 and bring the money to the apostles to give to those in need. [5] stories in the Bible. Whilst i believe the bible contains a good account of God's revelation to mankind, i do not subscribe to the notion that it is the undiluted word of God for reasons bordering from translation errors[which makes it diluted] to even biblical statements that levites, teachers, scribes e.t.c twist the word of God. There is no evidence that these twisted staement were eventually excluded form the bible. In fact our so called preachers continue to twist it further today. This biblical statements can be found below: Deuteronomy 31:29: 29 I know that after my death you will become utterly corrupt and will turn from the way I have commanded you to follow. In the days to come, disaster will come down on you, for you will do what is evil in the Lord’s sight, making him very angry with your actions.” Jeremiah 8:8: 8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise because we have the word of the Lord,” when your teachers have twisted it by writing lies? John 10:8: 8 All who came before me were thieves and robbers. But the true sheep did not listen to them. The decision i have taken when approaching the bible in terms of doctrines is to ensure whatever the teaching is conforms with the teachings of Christ himself, if not then i hold it with a pinch of salt. [this is another very wide topic that cannot be exhustively discussed here without derailing this thread. |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 2:54pm On Dec 20, 2009 |
noetic15: Whilst it is not wrong to collect donations and contributions to run |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by nuclearboy(m): 2:57pm On Dec 20, 2009 |
I like what you've used as your basis for faith and mainly agree with you. However, I didn't want you to show these to me. Let me explain - So many threads here presuppose Christianity to be a confused mish-mash of people each jostling for position and relevance, some for cash, others for power and influence and all following something that seems intrinsically wrong i.e. the notion of a man being placed in the same position as God. I was hoping to find someone who'd for the first time, rather than insult others for questioning his beliefs in a rude/mocking manner, take the bulls by the Horn and present from start a defense for Christianity. Such defense would come as an historical sincere explanation of how the counterfeiting was acheived, the many forms it has taken and why it has continued unabated. I believe such would be long, would find a lot of opponents threatening/fighting because satan would obviously not want people to become aware of the complications of the last 2 thousand years etc. I also believe from what you've written that you know quite a lot about the issue and thought you'd do a commendable job. You OR Mavenbox! I would do so but find myself so busy it might go in spurts and starts. Ah well, maybe I'll start putting something together. But your input would be appreciated and please lets try avoiding fighting with the "beast" when it starts! |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 3:21pm On Dec 20, 2009 |
nuclearboy: Ok i get your point, i would sit back and learn what you have to share on this story and as you have rightly noted any attempt to disscuss what true christianity is would be vehemently attacked by mostly those who claim to be christians, just becos of the pride and arrogance of not wanting to admit that they are not yet on that narrow road Jesus spoke about in Matthew7. Please fire on. |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by Nobody: 3:51pm On Dec 20, 2009 |
By the end of the third century the true servants of God had become a distinct minority among those who called themselves Christians. The counterfeit Christianity had become the majority do you mind naming any member of these true christians who lived in the third century. To achieve this, Constantine presided over doctrinal deliberations and dictated statements of belief whenever disagreements could not be resolved amicably. He soon successfully molded the bickering groups of counterfeit Christians who were willing to accept state control into a strong and unified vassal of the Roman Empire. Williston Walker, former professor of ecclesiastical history at Yale University, tells us that, in 323, "Constantine was at last the sole ruler of the Roman world. The church was everywhere free from persecution . . . But, in winning its freedom from its enemies, it had come largely under the control of the occupant of the Roman imperial throne. A fateful union with the state had begun" (A History of the Christian Church, 1946, p. 111). This is fallacy from the very pit of hell.The emperor constantine in truth legalised christianity and stopped the persecution of christians.The council of nicea in 325CE was convoked to tackle the arian heresy,the principal ators at the council wa Arius and Athanasius both from alexandria egypt. The emperor never prticipated in the deliberatons at these council,he did not form any new church,nothing happened to the church that has always exixted from the first century. for more of these see the link below. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea Apart from the fact that we know a core part of Jesus tachings was about being of help to the poor and needy around us, we ought to know that Paul did not depend on the four gospels we now rely on today as they probably had't been written as at the time paul was ministering. Paul was recored to have been taught directly by Jesus himself who appeared o him after his acension. That apart i am quite aware that there were over thirty gospels written on the ministry and life of christ, however onlt four of them were cannonize by the RCC. It is quite possible that paul got this teaching from the other gospels that were not cannonized by the RCC Kunle who gave you the idea that over thirty gospels were written,in truth morew than four gospels were probably written but as you said only for were canonised,the four gospel structure was based on he writings of st Ireneaus of lyons who lived in the second century and was privileged to learn from those who had met the apostles in person. St Ireneaus writes The Gospels could not possibly be either more or less in number than they are. Since there are four zones of the world in which we live, and four principal winds, while the Church is spread over all the earth, and the pillar and foundation of the Church is the gospel, and the Spirit of life, it fittingly has four pillars, everywhere breathing out incorruption and revivifying men. From this it is clear that the Word, the artificer of all things, being manifested to men gave us the gospel, fourfold in form but held together by one Spirit. As David said, when asking for his coming, 'O sitter upon the cherubim, show yourself '. For the cherubim have four faces, and their faces are images of the activity of the Son of God. For the first living creature, it says, was like a lion, signifying his active and princely and royal character; the second was like an ox, showing his sacrificial and priestly order; the third had the face of a man, indicating very clearly his coming in human guise; and the fourth was like a flying eagle, making plain the giving of the Spirit who broods over the Church. Now the Gospels, in which Christ is enthroned, are like these. (3.11. The 4 creatures are allusions to Revelations http://www.ntcanon.org/Irenaeus.shtml Of all the all non -canonised gospels the only one that is probably genuine is the gospel of hebrews.The gnostic gospels were written in the second and criminally attributed to people who lived in the first century. Heretics like marcion and valentinus were busy editing the authentic gospels and adding gibberish to them to validate their heretical teachings ,their gospels are not scripture and should never be regarded as one. Irenaeus reports in Adversus Haereses ( 175CE) But the followers of Valentinus, putting away all fear, bring forward their own compositions and boast that they have more Gospels than really exist. Indeed their audacity has gone so far that they entitle their recent composition the Gospel of Truth, though it agrees in nothing with the Gospels of the apostles, and so no Gospel of theirs is free from blasphemy. For if what they produce is the Gospel of Truth, and is different from those which the apostles handed down to us, those who care to can learn how it can be show from the Scriptures themselves that [then] what is handed down from the apostles is not the Gospel of Truth. (3.11.9) On the gospel of Judas ,Irenaeus writes in Adversus Haereses: Others again declare that Cain derived his being from the Power above, and acknowledge that Esau, Korah, the Sodomites, and all such persons, are related to themselves. On this account, they add, they have been assailed by the Creator, yet no one of them has suffered injury. For Sophia was in the habit of carrying off that which belonged to her from them to herself. They declare that Judas the traitor was thoroughly acquainted with these things, and that he alone, knowing the truth as no others did, accomplished the mystery of the betrayal; by him all things, both earthly and heavenly, were thus thrown into confusion. They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they style the Gospel of Judas. (1.31.1)
constantine never introduced Trinity,bishop of rome or easter into christianity ,these offices and practices have existed centuries before the birth and ascension of constantine. The word trinity was actually coined by tertullian of carthage who died about 100 years before the reign of constantine About easter,the disagreement over the date of easter made polycarp the bishop of smyrna to travel to rome to discuss with the then bishop of rome Anicetus 1in 156CE A letter of St. Irenaeus shows that the diversity of practice regarding Easter had existed at least from the time of Pope Sixtus I (c. 120). Further, Irenaeus states that St. Polycarp kept Easter on the fourteenth day of the moon, whatever day of the week that might be, following therein the tradition which he claimed to have derived from St. John the Apostle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_controversy The office of the bishop of rome was created when Peter left antioch to assume office as the bishop of rome. he was succeeded by linus,ireneaus writes When the blessed apostles had founded and built up the Church, they handed over the ministry of the episcopate to Linus. Paul mentions this Linus in his Epistles to Timothy. Anencletus succeeded him. After him Clement received the lot of the episcopate in the third place from the apostles. He had seen the apostles and associated with them, and still had their preaching sounding in his ears and their tradition before his eyes , Other christian writers like Clement of rome ,Tertullian of carthage, Dionysius of corinth ,Origen of alexandria clearly proves the existence of the office of bishop mof rome long before constantine |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by Nobody: 4:01pm On Dec 20, 2009 |
The See of Rome is traditionally said to be founded by Peter and Paul, see also Primacy of Simon Peter, who had invested it with apostolic authority. The New Testament says nothing directly about Peter's connection to Rome, but an early Catholic tradition supports such a connection.[5] St. Ignatius of Antioch implies that Peter and Paul had special authority over the Roman church.[5] In his Letter to the Romans (Ch. 4) of c. 105-110, he tells the Roman Christians: "I do not command you, as Peter and Paul did."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Peter |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by Nobody: 4:10pm On Dec 20, 2009 |
Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its pre- eminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the apostolical tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3:3:2 (A.D. 180). pope victor 1 in 195CE threatened excomuniccation of some christians over disagreement s in the celebration o easter A question of no small importance arose at that time. For the parishes of all Asia, as from an older tradition, held that the fourteenth day of the moon, on which day the Jews were commanded to sacrifice the lamb, should be observed as the feast of the Saviour's Passover. It was therefore necessary to end their fast on that day, whatever day of the week it should happen to be. But it was not the custom of the churches in the rest of the world to end it at this time, as they observed the practice which, from apostolic tradition, has prevailed to the present time, of terminating the fast on no other day than on that of the resurrection of our Saviour, Thereupon Victor, who presided over the church at Rome, immediately attempted to cut off from the common unity the parishes of all Asia, with the churches that agreed with them, as heterodox; and he wrote letters and declared all the brethren there wholly excommunicated Pope Victor & Easter (c. A.D. 195). And he says to him again after the resurrection, 'Feed my sheep.' It is on him that he builds the Church, and to him that he entrusts the sheep to feed. And although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single Chair, thus establishing by his own authority the source and hallmark of the (Church's) oneness. No doubt the others were all that Peter was, but a primacy is given to Peter, and it is (thus) made clear that there is but one flock which is to be fed by all the apostles in common accord. If a man does not hold fast to this oneness of Peter, does he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he deserts the Chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, has he still confidence that he is in the Church? This unity firmly should we hold and maintain, especially we bishops, presiding in the Church, in order that we may approve the episcopate itself to be the one and undivided ." Cyprian, The Unity of the Church, 4-5 (A.D. 251-256). It is, therefore, recorded that Paul was beheaded in Rome itself, and that Peter likewise was crucified under Nero. This account of Peter and Paul is substantiated by the fact that their names are preserved in the cemeteries of that place even to the present day. It is confirmed likewise by Caius, a member of the Church, who arose under Zephyrinus, bishop of Rome. He, in a published disputation with Proclus, the leader of the Phrygian heresy, speaks as follows concerning the places where the sacred corpses of the aforesaid apostles are laid: 'But I can show the trophies of the apostles. For if you will go to the Vatican or to the Ostian way, you will find the trophies of those who laid the foundations of this church.'" Gaius, fragment in Eusebius' Church History, 2:25 (A.D. 198). http://www.scripturecatholic.com/primacy_of_peter.html I posted this to prove the existence of the bishop of Rome,easter and the primacy of the church of Rome long before the acencion of constantine to dispel the notion that constantine was the one who created the office of bishop of rome or instituted the feast of easter |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 4:18pm On Dec 20, 2009 |
@Chukwudi44 Given your catholic back ground it is obvious that you are biased about the issues at stake, however scholars estimate that at least thirty gospels were written on the life of christ, that is not to say that they were all genuine we know for a fact that there a number of adulterated ones amongst them and others that presented a version of christianity which was different from what the catholic church was trying to project at that time. t is obvious that the catholic church was more interested in self preservation than the preservation of the gospel of christ. Some of those gospels rejected and destroyed by the catholic church were understood to be genuine and provided deeper spiritual insight into the gospel of Christ which the catholic church leaders wanted to monopolize. Some of these books are still believed to be hidden in vatican vaults up till today and are not allowed to be translated from the original text. This is the reason why most catholic priests up till today are still beig made to learn greek/latin that these texts were written in. Most of the documented accounts we have today the catholic versions [the person that wins the war gets to write history] and that it why you quote the opinions of several catholic writters who wrote the catholic version of the story. i wonder why they failed to mention the concerted efforts they made to destroy all other versions not cannonized by them. |
| Re: The Rise Of Counterfeit Christianity by DeepSight(m): 4:19pm On Dec 20, 2009 |
Kunle Great work. Ride on. |
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