9jakool:

Weren't you the one who said I was "spitting out rage and fury driven by emotional pain and anger." Anyways, I believe that thoughtful discussion and dialogue creates understanding and brings people together, rather than throwing personal attacks.


First of all, I didn't say that Yoruba slaves were the only slaves taken to the Americas. There were many slave revolts and protests that took place in the Americas. However, the Male revolt specifically was organized by Yoruba. You know, this whole conversation came up because you claimed that Yoruba didn't resist external forces.

Also, I wasn't the one who called the Brazilian Male revolt a "Yoruba revolt", the Brazilian did themselves. Or are you going to tell me that you know their history better than them. There are written records of it and it is solid fact. Let me break it down to you. "Male" or "imale" is a Yoruba word that is used to describe Yoruba Muslims. Hence, Islam among Yoruba people is commonly referred to as "Esin-Imale." The term stuck with the Yoruba muslims that were taken to Brazil. Yoruba muslims in Brazil were well united and could organize together to plan the revolt which took place on Ramadan.


Yes, I don't disagree with you there. In Haiti, Gbe culture became the dominant culture that around 2% of them still practice Vodoo, which is even higher than the percentage of traditional adherents of some African countries. Just like with Yoruba in Brazil, Igbo culture and language became very influential in Jamaica. Jamaican Patois has a lot of words that originated from the Igbo language.



Why in the world do you think the king of Dahomey would send a foreigner to Oyo? Here is your answer: The king of Dahomey, Ghezo came to power with the help of Fransico de Souza and they became a close ally of each other. At first, De Souza was sent to Oyo by Ghezo, to negotiate peace in order to end the kingdom's tributary status. The peace talks broke down after the Alaafin rejected his offer. De Souza would later led the Dahomey army to confront Oyo. His army was able to secure a victory which ended Dahomey's tributary status.




Yoruba didn't add the myth for validation. The myth is very ancient has been around for centuries before the modern age. It's set on the foundation for Yoruba's society. Many myths from Benin and Ile-Ife have some parallels. Oral accounts can often change, especially over a period of over 1,000 years. I'm not here to discuss the Benin oral accounts concerning Oduduwa.


Many languages in Nigeria, and West Africa at large diverged from a proto-ancestor. No one group came from the other, what you have is cultural diffusion and exchange, nothing more. I respect different entities as separate, but it seems that you would like to jump to the claim that Yoruba people are descendant of Benin and Dahomey people. Maybe I need to make this more clear, TIME IS ESSENCE. Dahomey existed from the 17th century onward, Oyo existed from the 14th century. Benin excited from the 12th century and became an empire in the 15th century. Archaeology suggests that Ife was settled from 4th century BC and became prominent in the 12th century. I am not even going to claim that Yoruba is the ancestor of Benin or Dahomey. I respect each individual entities. There is no need to jump to conclusion.


Yeah most of the times it's about jokes. It's good to joke around.
Some people feel like there is a need to be superior. There is no need for an African to condemn the accomplishments or history of another African.
I embrace every ethnic groups in Nigeria and Africa at large. Everyone is equal and have contributed to the continent's rich history and legacy.

Wow I really respect your maturity and understanding well for that reason I wouldn't want to go back and forth with you unless you insist, you put up very good arguments with strong point that cannot be overlooked however many of the point you raised can be easily dismissed, disprove and faulted but for your peaceful and embracing nature I will have to let go so that I do not further hurt people's feeling and to show that these threads were not created out of hate or resentment, but if you wish I could easily continue as you please. thanks man you are a cool level headed intelligent and knowledgeable Afonja.

If my post was too lengthy why didn't you delete it content therein, cut it short or highlight the part you wish to disprove instead you choose to alter my quote to mean something else, unless you change that I wouldn't take you seriously and I don't expect anyone too as well.

That said, a good test for history is that it should be able to stand alone in it narratives or account which Yoruba history clearly fails also oral history have never been as good source for history as its narrative is watered down from generations to generations or could be altered to magnify or suit the narrators intentions.

If Oyo was as great a kingdom and not a proxy administrative province how is it that they could not keep records, when Dahomey and Benin kingdoms and other great kingdoms, kept records of their history as far back as the 14th century and Oyo could not keep its own coming 200 year after instead the choose to parade a revised account of the Benin and Dahomey empire as their own history, and chose to call the to kingdoms descendants of Oduduwa and by extension Yorubas.

I can't believe I'm doing this with you all over again. But I will take the pain to educate you and your likes. Did you just say that Dahomey kept record from 14th century when Dahomey was actually founded in 1600? I'm sure every historians are laughing their butts off to that comment now. Did you just say Oyo didn't keep records of their history? Another laughable comment. Oyo records are everywhere so much so that the list of kings from Oranmiyan the first king to Ajaka the 2nd king to Shango the 3rd king up to the present Alaafin HRH Lamide Adeyemi III are well kept and well known to African historians. Oyo never revised account of Benin, Dahomey or any other tribe at that because like they always say "Ajisebi Oyo la n ri, Oyo sebi baba eni kan kan". The only affiliation Oyo has with another Kingdom is with Ile Ife because the founding father of Oyo Oranmiyan was a descendant of Oduduwa. See below the list of Alaafin of Oyo from first king to the present king
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_the_Yoruba_state_of_Oyo

How do you explain
Oduduwa falling from the sky

People have told you that is a myth just like Greek, Roman, Vikings, Hindu etc. mythology. Guess what? it was not only Oduduwa that came from the sky according to myth the royal founder of Nri kingdom, was also sent from the sky by Chukwu. Say what? ....you don't know Eri also came from the sky

"Nri's royal founder, Eri, is said to be a 'sky being' that came down to earth and then established civilization"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Nri

How do you explain Oduduwa actually being a Benin prince

I don't need to explain Oduduwa being a Benin prince because it never exist. Benin people can believe what ever they wanna believe, but one thing they can't deny is that Oranmiyan, the descendant of Oduduwa gave Benin the name Bini which is what they are using till date. Are you surprised the first Oyo king gave Bini (Ile Ibinu) its name? Like I said before, you need a lot to learn in African history, and for you to learn, you need to free your mind from hate. Guess what? It's not only Benin that try to associate with Yoruba, hausa too does through there Banzai bakwa fabrication. I guess everyone likes to associate with success. Innit?

How do you explain the Benin kingdom being an older kingdom with records of all it kingship till date and Oyo empire having no records

Bini is not older kingdom to Oyo, and can never be because the first Oba of Bini who was Eweka I was the son of Oranmiyan. Though Benin people claim there was Igodomigodo during Ogiso era which was not powerful, but they never denied that Oranmiyan established bini kingdom, gave them the name and installed his son Eweka I as the first Oba of the kingdom

How do you explain the fact that Benin kingdom have landmark structures and artifacts that depict a kingdom even Ijebu that ran a small kingdom had land mark structures, so why does a kingdom as mighty as Oyo have non.

Though I provided you with landmark structure of Oyo in my last post, you decided to look away from it. You know what, if you want to know about the greatness of Old oyo empire, drive to Old Oyo national park north of present Oyo state and south of Kwara state. Say what? You don't know there is a national park for Old oyo empire. Fyi, the park covers a massive 2500 square kilometer. You will see magnitudes of landmark structures and artifacts. Just watch out for the wildlifes there so you don't get eaten because of your hate.

How do you explain the fact that no ancient historical palace, royal ornaments, king graves or artwork that depict a kingdom or royalty existed in Oyo as it was found in Benin, Dahomey and Nri.

With this comment, I'm quite sure you haven't heard of Oranmiyan staff (the most iconic and biggest man-made artifact made in what is now called Nigeria). Dude you need more reading I swear. The monolith was built around 1300 standing at almost 6 meters tall

http://www..com/12-interesting-things-you-never-knew-about-the-mysterious-opa-oranmiyan-oranmiyan-s-staff-in-ile-ife/

http://afrotourism.com/attraction/oranmiyan-staff/

How do you explain a recent Oyo and Yoruba kingdom claiming the title Oba a Benin word for king which Yorubas now claim to be Yoruba words, when in reality it was borrowed during the annexation by Benin

I'm sure this particular point has been covered by some topics on Nairaland. While Yoruba has meaning for Oba, Benin find it difficult to explain what the word means in their language.
Now for the purpose of enlightenment, I will educate you and your likes some Yoruba language structure. See the word "Ba" is very significant in Yoruba language, and it means reign over or oversee something. Examples include
Baale: (the "le" sound is like in let), the expansion of the word is Ba (reigns over) and Ile (the land). So the word Baale means someone that reigns over a land or someone that oversee things on a particular land or area. This title is used for leader of a small communities or villages in Yorubaland
Bale: (the "le" sound is like in lay), the expansion of the word is Ba (reigns over) and ile (the house). So the word Bale means someone that reigns over a house or someone that oversee things in a house. This title is used for husband as they are the head of a house in Yoruba tradition
Oba: the word Oba is a shorten form of eni to ba le gbogbo. Logically, it is sensible to use Oba instead of eni to ba le gbogbo. The break down of the expression eni to ba le gbogbo is eni (someone), to ba (reigns over) and le gbogbo (everything). Hence Oba (eni to ba le gbogbo) means someone that reigns over everything whether it is land, house, river or any goddamn thing.

How to you explain the fact the the words Benin, Dahomey and Oyo have to be used interchangeably in Oyo empire history when no such word is used in Benin or Dahomey history except where they give records of their exploits in yorubaland.

There is no such thing that Benin, Dahomey and Oyo was used interchangeably in Oyo history. It is something playing in your head. If you have evidence to proof it show it. Like I said earlier "Ajisebi Oyo lan ri Oyo ose bi baba enikan kan". Go ask a Yoruba person to explain it to you

How do you explain the fact that no record of Oyo warriors invading Benin or Dahomey, when they are endless records of the reverse.

Oyo does not need to invade Dahomey because Dahomey was a vassal state to Oyo empire from 1740 to 1823 that was paying tribute to Oyo. Benin empire on the hand was an empire that got started and named by the founding father of Oyo (Oranmiyan), so why would they attack it? The fact that you keep mentioning Dahomey in comparison to Oyo makes me and others that know African history giggle at your lack of African history. Dahomey was inconsequential in west africa history and have absolute no threat to Oyo until king Ghezo broke tributary status to Oyo and ended vassal state position to Oyo in mid 1800s. The only reason he broke away from Oyo was because Oyo was experience a tremendous internal political unrest that time that led to its fall. The reason for the internal political unrest is a discussion for another time. The same Dahomey you are shouting about was massacred by Egba warriors twice. You don't know? Just google Egba-Dahomey war.

The questions are endless, pointers to the fact that no empire existed in Oyo are to numerous to ignore, these are simple questions that kills any idea or narrative of any Oyo empire.

There are no questions here. All what you have said are lies and fabrications playing in your head as a result of your hate for Yoruba.

I would have help you work around the answers to come to a conclusion that shows that what you called and empire was actually a administrative province for other great kingdoms.

You can't provide anything because you have absolute no supporting document or evidence to support your lies

Personally I think the Yorubas should have projected Ijebu as that great and mighty kingdom instead of Oyo as Ijebu would have been more marketable to the world

Are you now a spokeperson for the Ijebus? I thought in your initial post that you said Ijebus are not Yoruba. How many mouths do you have? I'm sure you're marveling at how great the Ijebus are with the discovery of the Eredo earthwork. One of the biggest man made structure in the world. See the Yoruba that you know now comprised of many empires and kingdoms such as Ile Ife, Oyo, Ijaye, Ijebu, Owu, Igbomina, Ekiti, Akure, Ila Orangun, Ilesha, Iwo, Eko, Ogbomosho, Oke-ila, Ondo, Oshogbo, Ota, Owo etc. So when Yoruba tell any other tribe they are not their mate, that is a fact

slurryeye:


Like you challenged I will provide you with sources from westerners

First source: Britannica encyclopedia

Oyo empire, Yoruba state north of Lagos, in present-day southwestern Nigeria, that dominated, during its apogee (1650–1750), most of the states between the Volta River in the west and the Niger River in the east. It was the most important and authoritative of all the early Yoruba principalities

https://www.britannica.com/place/Oyo-empire

Second source: Frobenius Institute Germany


http://www.frobenius-institut.de/sammlungen-und-archive/ethnographisches-bildarchiv/42-das-institut/119-nigeria-100-years-ago


Third Source: Reasearch in African Literatures, African and Afro-American Studies and Research Center
Author: Judith Gleason


The two greatest warriors in the time of Shango was Timi Olofa Ina and Gbonka Ebiri. By this time,Oyo have emerged to be the administrative capital of the Oduduwa dynasty. [s]He had the priest he put in charge of Ife ( Son of Owuoni, the woman that should have been used for a sacrifice but spared because she was with child) to oversee the affairs of the kingdom while he built a new kingdom at Oyo.[/s] This is one reason why Ife was the spiritual capital of Oyo and Benin empires for centuries. In both kingdoms, the Ooni of Ife must send certain regalia of office at the installation of a new monarch for them to be legitimate.

Do you want more sources? There are hundreds of first hand account of westerners that came to Yoruba land in 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. Your argument has been faulted by providing absolute no source to support your humongous lies and fabrications. Just like you do, I can sit down and write something more terrible about your tribe if I have the time. Funny enough, you wrote that epistle and challenge people to provide source for a counter opinion, but you didn't provide one single source. Boy free your mind from hate
I will urge people that really care about history of different tribes of Nigeria to check out Nigeria Nostalgia project pre-Nigeria discussion forum on Facebook. There you will meet alot of Nigerians and Nigeria descendants based all over the world exchanging knowledge.
@OP I challenge you to put this your trash in that forum

That is the fable given to us my Rev Johnson, an Oyo man.... As good as that book was, he goofed on the part of the Ooni by trying to lower the importance of Ife and its king in the Yoruba scheme of things. Whether that was done deliberately or unknowingly, no one knows.

shinarambo1:

That is the fable given to us my Rev Johnson. An Oyo man. The Ooni wears the Ade are (Oduduwa's crown on olojo day). Why is the crown not being worn by the Oba of Oyo?
The Ooni is a King (Arole Oduduwa), the number one king in yorubaland at that, and not a priest or babalawo as you claimed by Rev Johnson.

Sorry, I may be getting you wrong, which crown are talking about? Because I can't see where I mentioned any crown in my post

slurryeye:


Sorry, I may be getting you wrong, which crown are talking about? Because I can't see where I mentioned any crown in my post

check out the paragraph i marked with a line. Thanks

I am just saying that part of your post was incorrect.

If it was correct. There won't be reasons for some of the unanswered questions below.

The Ooni wears the Ade aare (Oduduwa's/Obalufon original crown on olojo day). Why is the crown not being worn by the Alaafin of Oyo?
Why did oranmiyan leave oyo and returned to Ife to fight for the throne of Oduduwa?
Are the descendants of Oranmiyan(Lajodogun and Lafogido) in Ife less worthy than his descendants in Oyo or Benin?
Why do lots of yoruba towns trace their founders to princes from Ife, and not children of a priest or babalawo?

shinarambo1:

check out the paragraph i marked with a line. Thanks

I am just saying that part of your post was incorrect.

If it was correct. There won't be reasons for some of the unanswered questions below.

The Ooni wears the Ade aare (Oduduwa's/Obalufon original crown on olojo day). Why is the crown not being worn by the Alaafin of Oyo?
Why did oranmiyan leave oyo and returned to Ife to fight for the throne of Oduduwa?
Are the descendants of Oranmiyan(Lajodogun and Lafogido) in Ife less worthy than his descendants in Oyo or Benin?
Why do lots of yoruba towns trace their founders to princes from Ife, and not children of a priest or babalawo?

Of course I believe Ooni wears the Ade aare, and Obalufon crown surely belongs to Ile Ife. However, at a point in history, Oyo became more militarily powerful and took the position of the most influential in the region. I believe the same happened to Benin at a late period. But this doesn't take away the fact that Ile Ife is the origin and spiritual head of all Yoruba descendants. If you look at the part of the post you marked out, you will realize it happened during the time Shango was Alaafin. We all know Shango to be highly temperamental and very powerful. So it could be possible that that story was true.

afonjaheadhunt:
We often read from the Yoruba media about the Oyo empire and how widespread and powerful this empire was, but no documents, finding or evidence any where in the world suggest these claims to be true only Yoruba folklore by the Yoruba revisionist elders and academicians, who have tried to rewrite their history by editing the feats of their conquerors to be That of Yorubas, but simple research or finding put all this claim to a fail test and simply portrays the Yorubas as a tribe that have been conquered since time immemorial as a matter of fact Yoruba land was split amongst to great African Kingdoms, Benin Kingdom and Dahomey kingdom this two kingdoms had their boundaries in present day south west Nigeria and shared the spoils of war within those bounds.

While every tribe in Nigeria have accounts of brutal wars with colonialist and invaders The Yorubas on their own part never confronted any of their colonialist or invaders they never challenged the Portuguese that gave Eko its name Lagos, the never confronted the British colonialists, they never challenged the Benin invaders whom became overlord in Lagos, installed a king and made Lagos a proxy of Benin kingdom, the old Oyo empire was overrun and brought to its knees by Dahomey women whom took their men as slaves, made their women maids and their children servants, The Fulani's conquered them in Illorin and installed an Emir, they Yorubas were over run by the Tiv, Nupe in Kabba and other Yoruba towns. Yorubas were simply a walk over in the history of Africa and the struggles for civilization and ethnic survival.

Yorubas claim that the Oyo empire stretches to Benin kingdom on the east and stretches to Benin republic and Togo on the west, this is one of the biggest lies ever told in the history of mankind, Africa and Nigeria as a nation. To be fair to history the reverse was actually the case. We all know that oduduwa who the Yorubas claim they are descendent from was actually a Benin prince whom went west to expand the Benin empire, the Yorubas on seeing the awe that came with the arrival and presence of Oduduwa the Benin prince pledge loyalty and support to him and rallied around him in Ile Ife which also became a Benin proxy like Lagos whom the Benins overruled. What the Yorubas refer to as Oyo empire was simply a administrative province for Benin Kingdom and Dahomey Kingdom being the center of both great empires.

On the western part it is common knowledge that the Dahomey women who from the Benin/Togo axis Present day Togo, moved and conquered eastward from the present day Togo to the present day Oyo state in south west Nigeria. Many parts of Yoruba land still speak a very corrupted version of the language of the Dahomey female warriors from Benin/Togo axis, Today you still find some Yoruba slave settlement in Benin/Togo the Yoruba slaves have been integrated in their society with coming of the white man, Slave trade and civilization. The Yorubas in Benin/Togo were slaves and spoils of war to Dahomey Kingdom, the Yorubas in Togo are ancestral descendants of Yorubas in present day south west Yoruba land in Nigeria. The relationship between the Yorubas and Benin/Togo is nothing short of a conqueror and conquered relationship or slave master relationship.

South west was divided and ruled by two great kingdoms. Benin Kingdom ruled to the west in Ile Ife axis down to Lagos, while present day Togo republic ruled to the East stretching all the way to Ibadan and Oyo present day Oyo state, Nigeria. However with the coming of the British to Nigeria Yorubas were wise to buy into the media and developed the media industry not just in Nigeria but west Africa at large and they used the media to rewrite and revisit history. However they can only deform those who are not versed to access informations as the Benin/Togo and Benin kingdom still have their very documented history which have been corroborated by the British, Portuguese, French missionaries and colonialist. Yoruba history on the other hand are simply revisions and revised history of the Benin/Togo and Benin Kingdoms history.

The fact that Yoruba history says they are descendants of Oduduwa whom they claim fell from the sky, when in truth he was actually a Benin prince on an expansionist journey, this gives credence to the fact that Yorubas have no record of their history and the one they take pride in is simply a fallacious mirage.

NOTE: This post was summarized so Nairalanders can read to the end, some accounts, excerpts, dates and events have been removed to keep it short. You can do some research to get more information or get in touch for the full context therein.

CC:
donratcock, thuggcheetah, zz22, generalachuzia, ikeadewole, Stephleena, obdk, proudlyafonja adadike281 iskander2 DIDDIDDIEOMENKA, UGOMBA, CHERUV, investinowerri uduak2016

An unintelligent and inchoate write up being masqueraded as an intellectual effort. Trashy, sans logic, bereft of verifiable facts, no source/citation for the silly, ludicrous and very childish conclusions. The premises for the shameful conclusions are to say the least, appalling. Definitely, this is a product of an untamed tribal bigot who loves to take flights of fancy to cover his apparent low self esteem and lack of scholarship on the subject of his enquiry. Massaging your ego is okay but knowingly distorting the truth to do so is sickening!

afonjaheadhunt:
We often read from the Yoruba media about the Oyo empire and how widespread and powerful this empire was, but no documents, finding or evidence any where in the world suggest these claims to be true only Yoruba folklore by the Yoruba revisionist elders and academicians, who have tried to rewrite their history by editing the feats of their conquerors to be That of Yorubas, but simple research or finding put all this claim to a fail test and simply portrays the Yorubas as a tribe that have been conquered since time immemorial as a matter of fact Yoruba land was split amongst to great African Kingdoms, Benin Kingdom and Dahomey kingdom this two kingdoms had their boundaries in present day south west Nigeria and shared the spoils of war within those bounds.

While every tribe in Nigeria have accounts of brutal wars with colonialist and invaders The Yorubas on their own part never confronted any of their colonialist or invaders they never challenged the Portuguese that gave Eko its name Lagos, the never confronted the British colonialists, they never challenged the Benin invaders whom became overlord in Lagos, installed a king and made Lagos a proxy of Benin kingdom, the old Oyo empire was overrun and brought to its knees by Dahomey women whom took their men as slaves, made their women maids and their children servants, The Fulani's conquered them in Illorin and installed an Emir, they Yorubas were over run by the Tiv, Nupe in Kabba and other Yoruba towns. Yorubas were simply a walk over in the history of Africa and the struggles for civilization and ethnic survival.

Yorubas claim that the Oyo empire stretches to Benin kingdom on the east and stretches to Benin republic and Togo on the west, this is one of the biggest lies ever told in the history of mankind, Africa and Nigeria as a nation. To be fair to history the reverse was actually the case. We all know that oduduwa who the Yorubas claim they are descendent from was actually a Benin prince whom went west to expand the Benin empire, the Yorubas on seeing the awe that came with the arrival and presence of Oduduwa the Benin prince pledge loyalty and support to him and rallied around him in Ile Ife which also became a Benin proxy like Lagos whom the Benins overruled. What the Yorubas refer to as Oyo empire was simply a administrative province for Benin Kingdom and Dahomey Kingdom being the center of both great empires.

On the western part it is common knowledge that the Dahomey women who from the Benin/Togo axis Present day Togo, moved and conquered eastward from the present day Togo to the present day Oyo state in south west Nigeria. Many parts of Yoruba land still speak a very corrupted version of the language of the Dahomey female warriors from Benin/Togo axis, Today you still find some Yoruba slave settlement in Benin/Togo the Yoruba slaves have been integrated in their society with coming of the white man, Slave trade and civilization. The Yorubas in Benin/Togo were slaves and spoils of war to Dahomey Kingdom, the Yorubas in Togo are ancestral descendants of Yorubas in present day south west Yoruba land in Nigeria. The relationship between the Yorubas and Benin/Togo is nothing short of a conqueror and conquered relationship or slave master relationship.

South west was divided and ruled by two great kingdoms. Benin Kingdom ruled to the west in Ile Ife axis down to Lagos, while present day Togo republic ruled to the East stretching all the way to Ibadan and Oyo present day Oyo state, Nigeria. However with the coming of the British to Nigeria Yorubas were wise to buy into the media and developed the media industry not just in Nigeria but west Africa at large and they used the media to rewrite and revisit history. However they can only deform those who are not versed to access informations as the Benin/Togo and Benin kingdom still have their very documented history which have been corroborated by the British, Portuguese, French missionaries and colonialist. Yoruba history on the other hand are simply revisions and revised history of the Benin/Togo and Benin Kingdoms history.

The fact that Yoruba history says they are descendants of Oduduwa whom they claim fell from the sky, when in truth he was actually a Benin prince on an expansionist journey, this gives credence to the fact that Yorubas have no record of their history and the one they take pride in is simply a fallacious mirage.

NOTE: This post was summarized so Nairalanders can read to the end, some accounts, excerpts, dates and events have been removed to keep it short. You can do some research to get more information or get in touch for the full context therein.

CC:
donratcock, thuggcheetah, zz22, generalachuzia, ikeadewole, Stephleena, obdk, proudlyafonja adadike281 iskander2 DIDDIDDIEOMENKA, UGOMBA, CHERUV, investinowerri uduak2016

So when I read this write up I noticed there were similarities between this write up and the one on Ihuando an edo pro Blog. The article tried so hard to discredit any Yoruba influence on Benin that it went as far as claiming Olokun (Goddess of Ocean), Ogun (God of Iron), Sango [They called it Esago (God of Thunder)] and Orunmila ( The Ifa priest) I couldn't believe my eyes I was dumbfounded these are gods people come all over the world to worship in Yoruba land. The Orunmila Baba Ifa (Ifa priest) is to the Yoruba spirituality what Jesus is to the Christians and Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) to Muslims so like this great men have the gospel and Quran so he has Odu Ifa (a book containing of life lessons) which is central to the Yoruba spirituality. (At the end of my reply I will give u few odu verses). Each of the aforementioned gods have their own odu, and guess what, the Binis worshipped these gods and Sango who is the first emperor of the Oyo empire and the Odu is in full Yoruba, this shows the influence of Yoruba spirituality on the Benin I will not dispute the presence of Benin civilisation in Lagos (Idumota - Lagos Island) and Ondo. However, what baffles me is the insistence of the Benins that they have never been influenced by Yoruba cultures, they bear our names, the aforementioned article even called 'Olu' as a benin name and also claimed 'oba' is exclusively theirs forgetting Yoruba gods has Oba as their initials, gods like Obàlùfòn and Obatala Oba ta sa. I will attach a picture of the Ife king sculpture found with the Oba. We can’t deny cultural synchronization, unless we want to create a world where culture existed without interaction. So on Dahomey u goofed, I decided to do a little research on Dahomey itself, there was no documentation of them ruling Oyo. All stories pointed to Dahomey as a tributary state to Oyo even the Britannica Encyclopædia reiterates this fact. And they are not Dahomey women, they are Dahomey amazons. They fight to death, defeat was never an option. The french suffered greatly for understimating them, they inspired the Dora milage of the Black panther. They are elite forces and imagine the elite forces sent against a crumbling Yoruba empire, Ghezo broke the tributary status of Dahomey, it is a fact cause it is widely accepted if you have other disputing other source Pls recommend

@afonjaheadhunt. These are the odus.
The Story of Sango and the Seere
A verse from Oyeku Rete says:
…Adifafun sere ti o fe Igbadun leyin Sango Thus declared Ifa oracle to Seere that wanted to pair up with Sango.
Seere is the one that announced the arrival of Sango to the townspeople, just as the Oba’s messenger who runs before the arrival of the King, that Sango would soon be coming to help the people solve their physical and spiritual problems and afflictions, as well as pray for their material needs. After Seere’s announcement, Sango would appear and immediately solve their problems. He performed as a physician using herbs and leaves (contained in the magical Seere) as well as foreseeing and predicting the future. Almost all of the people would give them money, fine cloth and many other gifts for assisting them overcome their troubles. When Sango and Seere reached their home one day to divide their gifts, Sango said that he would take the larger share, simply because he was the doctor attending to the people, while Seere only summoned for them. Seere rejected the notion and said they were full partners so they should either share the gifts equally or they should split up. Both of them agreed to dissolve their partnership and went their separate ways. Then, whenever each of them went out to work alone, people said, “this is not the real Seere! The Seere we know announces the arrival of Sango!”. The same happened when Sango went out, people said, “the coming of the real Sango we know is always announced by Seere!”. So both starved and they didn’t receive any food, gifts, or money as recognition from the people. Unbeknownst to each other they now separately went to consult the Ifa oracle. Ifa then revealed to them that they should settle the dispute that had arisen between them so they can have progress in life. They became partners again and Seere continued to announce the arrival of Sango and contain his ewe, leaves for Ifa medicine (ewe oogun). It is for this reason that since that day Seere the gourd is always found in most shrines next to the ota of Sango.

Oriki Sango
Oríkì Sàngó
(Praising the siprit of rays and thunder)
Alaafin, ekun bu, a sa
Alaafin, King of Oyo whom growls as a leopard and makes people run far away
Eleyinju ogunna
He who’s eyes shines as lighted fire
Olukoso lalu
Olukoso, the famos in the city
A ri igba ota, según
He who uses hundreds of cartridges to scare his enemies
Eyi ti o fi alapa segun ota re
He who used pieces of broke wall parts to defeat his enemies
Kabiyesi o
We honour you
Ase

Another odu on ogun

Orunmila had sixteen chief disciples and each has an oral book dedicated to him. In the Book of Ika Meji (note the meji is in all the sixteen reflecting the binary coding), the eleventh book, a verse goes, “mo ba Oniika omo ogun (onikamogun) (onika son of ogun), o kawo (placed his hand) ifa leri, o fi aso aka (costly cloth) bora, paaka (small masqurades) meta joko ti (three pakaa sat with) Onikamogun, Onikamogun mo aka (granary) meta si ita. O so ibaaka meta (three mules) mo idi aka (granary). O pe Lakaa (person’s name) ko yanko (feed with grass), ni idi aka (granary), ibaaka (mules) ta (kick) Lakaa (person) lejika (shoulder). Lakaa-la, Akaakagbasa ati Sasioro (three young priests) lo difa fun Saabamo (cast ifa for someon called Had i known), nijo ti won beere lowo Onikamogun (on the day they asked Onikamogun), ti o fi nje oruko kaakaa wonyi? (Why he bears these strongly pronounced names) ti iya nje (his mom bears) Akaagbon, ti baba nje (dad bears) Akaagun, ti aburo nje (his young sibling bears) Akaakaagbasa, ti egbon nje (older one bears) Akaakaawo. Won ni nitori apa awon o kaye (it is because they cannot handle the world). Orunmila, afedefeyo (Orunmila who beautifies speech) je ki apa akapo kaye re (let your f

Which history did Igbo have except cannibalism and unclothedness

aljharem:
Lol do you know what an empire means ? Truely you people are daft

Do you know what an empire really is??
An empire should cover “different” groups of people/nations/languages.. Oyo only ruled over fellow Yoruba people. PLEASE that is NOT an empire!!
Great Benin ruled over Igbo, Yoruba, Igalas, all Edos, Togo, Dahomey, Ghana tribes. That is an EMPIRE!!

9jakool:

Weren't you the one who said I was "spitting out rage and fury driven by emotional pain and anger." Anyways, I believe that thoughtful discussion and dialogue creates understanding and brings people together, rather than throwing personal attacks.


First of all, I didn't say that Yoruba slaves were the only slaves taken to the Americas. There were many slave revolts and protests that took place in the Americas. However, the Male revolt specifically was organized by Yoruba. You know, this whole conversation came up because you claimed that Yoruba didn't resist external forces.

Also, I wasn't the one who called the Brazilian Male revolt a "Yoruba revolt", the Brazilian did themselves. Or are you going to tell me that you know their history better than them. There are written records of it and it is solid fact. Let me break it down to you. "Male" or "imale" is a Yoruba word that is used to describe Yoruba Muslims. Hence, Islam among Yoruba people is commonly referred to as "Esin-Imale." The term stuck with the Yoruba muslims that were taken to Brazil. Yoruba muslims in Brazil were well united and could organize together to plan the revolt which took place on Ramadan.


Yes, I don't disagree with you there. In Haiti, Gbe culture became the dominant culture that around 2% of them still practice Vodoo, which is even higher than the percentage of traditional adherents of some African countries. Just like with Yoruba in Brazil, Igbo culture and language became very influential in Jamaica. Jamaican Patois has a lot of words that originated from the Igbo language.



Why in the world do you think the king of Dahomey would send a foreigner to Oyo? Here is your answer: The king of Dahomey, Ghezo came to power with the help of Fransico de Souza and they became a close ally of each other. At first, De Souza was sent to Oyo by Ghezo, to negotiate peace in order to end the kingdom's tributary status. The peace talks broke down after the Alaafin rejected his offer. De Souza would later led the Dahomey army to confront Oyo. His army was able to secure a victory which ended Dahomey's tributary status.




Yoruba didn't add the myth for validation. The myth is very ancient has been around for centuries before the modern age. It's set on the foundation for Yoruba's society. Many myths from Benin and Ile-Ife have some parallels. Oral accounts can often change, especially over a period of over 1,000 years. I'm not here to discuss the Benin oral accounts concerning Oduduwa.


Many languages in Nigeria, and West Africa at large diverged from a proto-ancestor. No one group came from the other, what you have is cultural diffusion and exchange, nothing more. I respect different entities as separate, but it seems that you would like to jump to the claim that Yoruba people are descendant of Benin and Dahomey people. Maybe I need to make this more clear, TIME IS ESSENCE. Dahomey existed from the 17th century onward, Oyo existed from the 14th century. Benin excited from the 12th century and became an empire in the 15th century. Archaeology suggests that Ife was settled from 4th century BC and became prominent in the 12th century. I am not even going to claim that Yoruba is the ancestor of Benin or Dahomey. I respect each individual entities. There is no need to jump to conclusion.


Yeah most of the times it's about jokes. It's good to joke around.
Some people feel like there is a need to be superior. There is no need for an African to condemn the accomplishments or history of another African.
I embrace every ethnic groups in Nigeria and Africa at large. Everyone is equal and have contributed to the continent's rich history and legacy.

Please can you also explain why there is no documents written hundreds of years ago describing Oyo empire. We only rely on oral tradition to know about mythical Oyo.
There are documents written 500 yrs to 1000yrs ago describing Great Benin’s might and glory. Documents written by early explorers about Benin Empire.
Why is there no documents written about Oyo?

I love this thread

afonjaheadhunt:
We often read from the Yoruba media about the Oyo empire and how widespread and powerful this empire was, but no documents, finding or evidence any where in the world suggest these claims to be true only Yoruba folklore by the Yoruba revisionist elders and academicians, who have tried to rewrite their history by editing the feats of their conquerors to be That of Yorubas, but simple research or finding put all this claim to a fail test and simply portrays the Yorubas as a tribe that have been conquered since time immemorial as a matter of fact Yoruba land was split amongst to great African Kingdoms, Benin Kingdom and Dahomey kingdom this two kingdoms had their boundaries in present day south west Nigeria and shared the spoils of war within those bounds.

While every tribe in Nigeria have accounts of brutal wars with colonialist and invaders The Yorubas on their own part never confronted any of their colonialist or invaders they never challenged the Portuguese that gave Eko its name Lagos, the never confronted the British colonialists, they never challenged the Benin invaders whom became overlord in Lagos, installed a king and made Lagos a proxy of Benin kingdom, the old Oyo empire was overrun and brought to its knees by Dahomey women whom took their men as slaves, made their women maids and their children servants, The Fulani's conquered them in Illorin and installed an Emir, they Yorubas were over run by the Tiv, Nupe in Kabba and other Yoruba towns. Yorubas were simply a walk over in the history of Africa and the struggles for civilization and ethnic survival.

Yorubas claim that the Oyo empire stretches to Benin kingdom on the east and stretches to Benin republic and Togo on the west, this is one of the biggest lies ever told in the history of mankind, Africa and Nigeria as a nation. To be fair to history the reverse was actually the case. We all know that oduduwa who the Yorubas claim they are descendent from was actually a Benin prince whom went west to expand the Benin empire, the Yorubas on seeing the awe that came with the arrival and presence of Oduduwa the Benin prince pledge loyalty and support to him and rallied around him in Ile Ife which also became a Benin proxy like Lagos whom the Benins overruled. What the Yorubas refer to as Oyo empire was simply a administrative province for Benin Kingdom and Dahomey Kingdom being the center of both great empires.

On the western part it is common knowledge that the Dahomey women who from the Benin/Togo axis Present day Togo, moved and conquered eastward from the present day Togo to the present day Oyo state in south west Nigeria. Many parts of Yoruba land still speak a very corrupted version of the language of the Dahomey female warriors from Benin/Togo axis, Today you still find some Yoruba slave settlement in Benin/Togo the Yoruba slaves have been integrated in their society with coming of the white man, Slave trade and civilization. The Yorubas in Benin/Togo were slaves and spoils of war to Dahomey Kingdom, the Yorubas in Togo are ancestral descendants of Yorubas in present day south west Yoruba land in Nigeria. The relationship between the Yorubas and Benin/Togo is nothing short of a conqueror and conquered relationship or slave master relationship.

South west was divided and ruled by two great kingdoms. Benin Kingdom ruled to the west in Ile Ife axis down to Lagos, while present day Togo republic ruled to the East stretching all the way to Ibadan and Oyo present day Oyo state, Nigeria. However with the coming of the British to Nigeria Yorubas were wise to buy into the media and developed the media industry not just in Nigeria but west Africa at large and they used the media to rewrite and revisit history. However they can only deform those who are not versed to access informations as the Benin/Togo and Benin kingdom still have their very documented history which have been corroborated by the British, Portuguese, French missionaries and colonialist. Yoruba history on the other hand are simply revisions and revised history of the Benin/Togo and Benin Kingdoms history.

The fact that Yoruba history says they are descendants of Oduduwa whom they claim fell from the sky, when in truth he was actually a Benin prince on an expansionist journey, this gives credence to the fact that Yorubas have no record of their history and the one they take pride in is simply a fallacious mirage.

NOTE: This post was summarized so Nairalanders can read to the end, some accounts, excerpts, dates and events have been removed to keep it short. You can do some research to get more information or get in touch for the full context therein.

CC:
donratcock, thuggcheetah, zz22, generalachuzia, ikeadewole, Stephleena, obdk, proudlyafonja adadike281 iskander2 DIDDIDDIEOMENKA, UGOMBA, CHERUV, investinowerri uduak2016

Op is suffering from meningitis!

Coolitempq:
If my post was too lengthy why didn't you delete it content therein, cut it short or highlight the part you wish to disprove instead you choose to alter my quote to mean something else, unless you change that I wouldn't take you seriously and I don't expect anyone too as well.

That said, a good test for history is that it should be able to stand alone in it narratives or account which Yoruba history clearly fails also oral history have never been as good source for history as its narrative is watered down from generations to generations or could be altered to magnify or suit the narrators intentions.

If Oyo was as great a kingdom and not a proxy administrative province how is it that they could not keep records, when Dahomey and Benin kingdoms and other great kingdoms, kept records of their history as far back as the 14th century and Oyo could not keep its own coming 200 year after instead the choose to parade a revised account of the Benin and Dahomey empire as their own history, and chose to call the to kingdoms descendants of Oduduwa and by extension Yorubas.

How do you explain
Oduduwa falling from the sky
How do you explain Oduduwa actually being a Benin prince
How do you explain the Benin kingdom being an older kingdom with records of all it kingship till date and Oyo empire having no records
How do you explain the fact that Benin kingdom have landmark structures and artifacts that depict a kingdom even Ijebu that ran a small kingdom had land mark structures, so why does a kingdom as mighty as Oyo have non.
How do you explain the fact that no ancient historical palace, royal ornaments, king graves or artwork that depict a kingdom or royalty existed in Oyo as it was found in Benin, Dahomey and Nri.
How do you explain a recent Oyo and Yoruba kingdom claiming the title Oba a Benin word for king which Yorubas now claim to be Yoruba words, when in reality it was borrowed during the annexation by Benin.
How to you explain the fact the the words Benin, Dahomey and Oyo have to be used interchangeably in Oyo empire history when no such word is used in Benin or Dahomey history except where they give records of their exploits in yorubaland.
How do you explain the fact that no record of Oyo warriors invading Benin or Dahomey, when they are endless records of the reverse.

The questions are endless, pointers to the fact that no empire existed in Oyo are to numerous to ignore, these are simple questions that kills any idea or narrative of any Oyo empire.

I would have help you work around the answers to come to a conclusion that shows that what you called and empire was actually a administrative province for other great kingdoms.

Before I do that like I said you change my initial post which you quoted so I can't take you serious or i will not waste my time with you if you don't change it back but I am only providing this questions so reader don't take you serious as well.

Personally I think the Yorubas should have projected Ijebu as that great and mighty kingdom instead of Oyo as Ijebu would have been more marketable to the world.

If you go through the thread you will see that I am politely engaging 9jacool who is coming up with a more logical arguement without altering any of my post.

Hilarious dont kill yorubas today let them live so they see the true history unfold before thier lies as for me d greatest man in yorubaland is awolowo not oduduwa ...awolowo was the bckbone of yoruba modern face he lied to make his ethnic group to find something to hold on he lied to a whole nation and united all yorubas rewrote thier history nd quickly introduced it to the midwest where they subjected the edos history with thier fabricated lies ..edos who the British was afriaid ti give education so as not to expose them on the injustice commited by the British quickly took education to the north and west the north didnt value it neither the west untill awolowo did a formal introduction and gave free edu to yorubas and they all came together to rewrite thier history against the edo has plamned by the british so has to keep the edo mouth shut..

Before the British left the deed was already done and edos were already used to the new edo with so much anger towards the injustice by the British and nigeria towards the edo the oba rejected ever participating towards politics and as you know the edos followed the oba as well

slurryeye:


I can't believe I'm doing this with you all over again. But I will take the pain to educate you and your likes. Did you just say that Dahomey kept record from 14th century when Dahomey was actually founded in 1600? I'm sure every historians are laughing their butts off to that comment now. Did you just say Oyo didn't keep records of their history? Another laughable comment. Oyo records are everywhere so much so that the list of kings from Oranmiyan the first king to Ajaka the 2nd king to Shango the 3rd king up to the present Alaafin HRH Lamide Adeyemi III are well kept and well known to African historians. Oyo never revised account of Benin, Dahomey or any other tribe at that because like they always say "Ajisebi Oyo la n ri, Oyo sebi baba eni kan kan". The only affiliation Oyo has with another Kingdom is with Ile Ife because the founding father of Oyo Oranmiyan was a descendant of Oduduwa. See below the list of Alaafin of Oyo from first king to the present king
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_the_Yoruba_state_of_Oyo




People have told you that is a myth just like Greek, Roman, Vikings, Hindu etc. mythology. Guess what? it was not only Oduduwa that came from the sky according to myth the royal founder of Nri kingdom, was also sent from the sky by Chukwu. Say what? ....you don't know Eri also came from the sky

"Nri's royal founder, Eri, is said to be a 'sky being' that came down to earth and then established civilization"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Nri



I don't need to explain Oduduwa being a Benin prince because it never exist. Benin people can believe what ever they wanna believe, but one thing they can't deny is that Oranmiyan, the descendant of Oduduwa gave Benin the name Bini which is what they are using till date. Are you surprised the first Oyo king gave Bini (Ile Ibinu) its name? Like I said before, you need a lot to learn in African history, and for you to learn, you need to free your mind from hate. Guess what? It's not only Benin that try to associate with Yoruba, hausa too does through there Banzai bakwa fabrication. I guess everyone likes to associate with success. Innit?



Bini is not older kingdom to Oyo, and can never be because the first Oba of Bini who was Eweka I was the son of Oranmiyan. Though Benin people claim there was Igodomigodo during Ogiso era which was not powerful, but they never denied that Oranmiyan established bini kingdom, gave them the name and installed his son Eweka I as the first Oba of the kingdom



Though I provided you with landmark structure of Oyo in my last post, you decided to look away from it. You know what, if you want to know about the greatness of Old oyo empire, drive to Old Oyo national park north of present Oyo state and south of Kwara state. Say what? You don't know there is a national park for Old oyo empire. Fyi, the park covers a massive 2500 square kilometer. You will see magnitudes of landmark structures and artifacts. Just watch out for the wildlifes there so you don't get eaten because of your hate.



With this comment, I'm quite sure you haven't heard of Oranmiyan staff (the most iconic and biggest man-made artifact made in what is now called Nigeria). Dude you need more reading I swear. The monolith was built around 1300 standing at almost 6 meters tall

http://www..com/12-interesting-things-you-never-knew-about-the-mysterious-opa-oranmiyan-oranmiyan-s-staff-in-ile-ife/

http://afrotourism.com/attraction/oranmiyan-staff/



I'm sure this particular point has been covered by some topics on Nairaland. While Yoruba has meaning for Oba, Benin find it difficult to explain what the word means in their language.
Now for the purpose of enlightenment, I will educate you and your likes some Yoruba language structure. See the word "Ba" is very significant in Yoruba language, and it means reign over or oversee something. Examples include
Baale: (the "le" sound is like in let), the expansion of the word is Ba (reigns over) and Ile (the land). So the word Baale means someone that reigns over a land or someone that oversee things on a particular land or area. This title is used for leader of a small communities or villages in Yorubaland
Bale: (the "le" sound is like in lay), the expansion of the word is Ba (reigns over) and ile (the house). So the word Bale means someone that reigns over a house or someone that oversee things in a house. This title is used for husband as they are the head of a house in Yoruba tradition
Oba: the word Oba is a shorten form of eni to ba le gbogbo. Logically, it is sensible to use Oba instead of eni to ba le gbogbo. The break down of the expression eni to ba le gbogbo is eni (someone), to ba (reigns over) and le gbogbo (everything). Hence Oba (eni to ba le gbogbo) means someone that reigns over everything whether it is land, house, river or any goddamn thing.



There is no such thing that Benin, Dahomey and Oyo was used interchangeably in Oyo history. It is something playing in your head. If you have evidence to proof it show it. Like I said earlier "Ajisebi Oyo lan ri Oyo ose bi baba enikan kan". Go ask a Yoruba person to explain it to you



Oyo does not need to invade Dahomey because Dahomey was a vassal state to Oyo empire from 1740 to 1823 that was paying tribute to Oyo. Benin empire on the hand was an empire that got started and named by the founding father of Oyo (Oranmiyan), so why would they attack it? The fact that you keep mentioning Dahomey in comparison to Oyo makes me and others that know African history giggle at your lack of African history. Dahomey was inconsequential in west africa history and have absolute no threat to Oyo until king Ghezo broke tributary status to Oyo and ended vassal state position to Oyo in mid 1800s. The only reason he broke away from Oyo was because Oyo was experience a tremendous internal political unrest that time that led to its fall. The reason for the internal political unrest is a discussion for another time. The same Dahomey you are shouting about was massacred by Egba warriors twice. You don't know? Just google Egba-Dahomey war.



There are no questions here. All what you have said are lies and fabrications playing in your head as a result of your hate for Yoruba.



You can't provide anything because you have absolute no supporting document or evidence to support your lies



Are you now a spokeperson for the Ijebus? I thought in your initial post that you said Ijebus are not Yoruba. How many mouths do you have? I'm sure you're marveling at how great the Ijebus are with the discovery of the Eredo earthwork. One of the biggest man made structure in the world. See the Yoruba that you know now comprised of many empires and kingdoms such as Ile Ife, Oyo, Ijaye, Ijebu, Owu, Igbomina, Ekiti, Akure, Ila Orangun, Ilesha, Iwo, Eko, Ogbomosho, Oke-ila, Ondo, Oshogbo, Ota, Owo etc. So when Yoruba tell any other tribe they are not their mate, that is a fact

Come to think of it what would make a yoruba come to benin to rule it when the empire political system is hereditary not elective system

This shows that edo birthed oduduwa who was called izoduwa the yorubas practice elective system which the gods select thier leaders it can easily be deduced that izoduwa was liked by the gods of yorubaland and made him a ruler benin came later to request for the ogiso bloodline back in the palace and foubd out he had already taken refuge at ile ife he sent his son to rule benin on his behalf alongs with yoruba chiefs ...when he got to benin he couldn't defeat the man on throne and left with anger saying ile ibinu the land
Of anger which was later corrupted by the poutuguese as benin

I stiil wonder why yoruba skip oduuduwa benin migration and start from the end to potray lies just the way you did

who does not kno south western lies.
they ve manipulated everything..
but every of thr lies is been busted wit d speed of lightning...

afonjaheadhunt well done

TimeManager:
Bishopmagic is very fond of promoting charlatanism on this forum. Just looking forward to the day he ..... so we could inscribe Afonja on his casket..
He foolishly thinks a charlatan could write a Yoruba history. The great Afonjas do not lack traces of history like the OSU & OHU..
Kiss the truth!

lazy shithole youth

My fellow Yoruba Muslim let's give them facts and not insult them..Seems we were born m.d because oduduwa hit his head when they sent him away from heaven for beheading an angel and selling His head to Lucifer..

did he also behead. i though d demon just backstabbed and double mouthed

9jakool:


I guess the Anglo-Ijebu war doesn't count as resisting colonialism by you. Even outside of home soil, Yoruba resisted colonial powers. In Brazilian history books, Yoruba were involved in the Great Bahia revolt and the Male revolt, which today still remains the largest slave revolt in Brazil. If Oyo was under Dahomey as you claimed, why did Oyo conquered Dahomey in 1748 during the Oyo-Dahomey wars. Dahomey was paying tributes to Oyo and would later resort to different war tactics to free itself from Oyo's control. While Oyo's boundary encompasses 4 African countries including modern day Nigeria, Dahomey's boundary did not extend an inch beyond modern day Benin republic.

Oyo empire's influence cannot be underestimated. Oyo empire stretches to Benin Republic, Togo and Ghana. Yoruba people founded cities, establishing their political hegemony and encompassing other ethnic groups. Porto-Novo, the second largest city in Benin republic was founded by Yoruba. In Togo, Yoruba founded Atakpame and Kpalime on the Ghanaian border. The Oyo empire encompassed many Gbe-speaking people such as Ewe of Togo and Ghana who claim that they came from Ketu, another Yoruba city. The Ga-Adangme people as far as Accra, Ghana claimed that their origin is Oyo. The ooni, not too long ago made a visit to Ghana, were the Ga-Adangme chiefs pledge and reinforce their ties to Yoruba people. Oyo was an imperial force to be reckoned with. Deal with it.

As for Benin, Oyo empire and Benin empire fought a number of wars, but both were unable to subdue each other. And you should know, Oyo empire isn't synonymous with Yoruba. Although it was a major central power, not all Yoruba people were under Oyo, and back then there were numerous Yoruba states that were very powerful. Even the Easternmost Yoruba state, Ogho which literally sits on the door Of Benin was never captured by the Benin even though they tried multiple times. After the mutual cultural exchange that took place between the two over a number of centuries, Ogho people till today were able to hold on and maintain their identity to Ife and not Benin. Even with their proximity to the imperial power of Benin, they were able to maintain their "Yorubaness" unlike many other ethnic groups around the region today who tie their origin to Benin. That right there is another example of resilience of Yoruba culture.

We didn't rewrite our history, NEVER! We've always maintained our origin to Ife, that's the bond that tie all Yoruba together no matter how distinct we've come to be. And lo and behold, this oral tradition is supported by scientists who would later found the oldest cultural artifacts from Ile-Ife. The history of Yoruba is extensive and its echoes are heard all over the world.

Keep trying...

stop foaming in the mouth.

lazy shithole youth. afonjas ve no history. kiss the truth

At this rate this whole country will be split apart but the thing is the oyo kingdom is true but may I ask why are you all fighting acting like the yoruba have done nothing in history according to Cambridge and Oxford I will give you the link later Ile Ife and the oyo kingdom are very much real how do you think the kings came along with their wealth and everything you think they just appeared why do you think yoruba land is bigger than the land of ewe speaking people or jupe or tiv if we were oppressed by them the current borders of yoruba land would not be here ??

afonjaheadhunt:
We often read from the Yoruba media about the Oyo empire and how widespread and powerful this empire was, but no documents, finding or evidence any where in the world suggest these claims to be true only Yoruba folklore by the Yoruba revisionist elders and academicians, who have tried to rewrite their history by editing the feats of their conquerors to be That of Yorubas, but simple research or finding put all this claim to a fail test and simply portrays the Yorubas as a tribe that have been conquered since time immemorial as a matter of fact Yoruba land was split amongst to great African Kingdoms, Benin Kingdom and Dahomey kingdom this two kingdoms had their boundaries in present day south west Nigeria and shared the spoils of war within those bounds.

While every tribe in Nigeria have accounts of brutal wars with colonialist and invaders The Yorubas on their own part never confronted any of their colonialist or invaders they never challenged the Portuguese that gave Eko its name Lagos, the never confronted the British colonialists, they never challenged the Benin invaders whom became overlord in Lagos, installed a king and made Lagos a proxy of Benin kingdom, the old Oyo empire was overrun and brought to its knees by Dahomey women whom took their men as slaves, made their women maids and their children servants, The Fulani's conquered them in Illorin and installed an Emir, they Yorubas were over run by the Tiv, Nupe in Kabba and other Yoruba towns. Yorubas were simply a walk over in the history of Africa and the struggles for civilization and ethnic survival.

Yorubas claim that the Oyo empire stretches to Benin kingdom on the east and stretches to Benin republic and Togo on the west, this is one of the biggest lies ever told in the history of mankind, Africa and Nigeria as a nation. To be fair to history the reverse was actually the case. We all know that oduduwa who the Yorubas claim they are descendent from was actually a Benin prince whom went west to expand the Benin empire, the Yorubas on seeing the awe that came with the arrival and presence of Oduduwa the Benin prince pledge loyalty and support to him and rallied around him in Ile Ife which also became a Benin proxy like Lagos whom the Benins overruled. What the Yorubas refer to as Oyo empire was simply a administrative province for Benin Kingdom and Dahomey Kingdom being the center of both great empires.

On the western part it is common knowledge that the Dahomey women who from the Benin/Togo axis Present day Togo, moved and conquered eastward from the present day Togo to the present day Oyo state in south west Nigeria. Many parts of Yoruba land still speak a very corrupted version of the language of the Dahomey female warriors from Benin/Togo axis, Today you still find some Yoruba slave settlement in Benin/Togo the Yoruba slaves have been integrated in their society with coming of the white man, Slave trade and civilization. The Yorubas in Benin/Togo were slaves and spoils of war to Dahomey Kingdom, the Yorubas in Togo are ancestral descendants of Yorubas in present day south west Yoruba land in Nigeria. The relationship between the Yorubas and Benin/Togo is nothing short of a conqueror and conquered relationship or slave master relationship.

South west was divided and ruled by two great kingdoms. Benin Kingdom ruled to the west in Ile Ife axis down to Lagos, while present day Togo republic ruled to the East stretching all the way to Ibadan and Oyo present day Oyo state, Nigeria. However with the coming of the British to Nigeria Yorubas were wise to buy into the media and developed the media industry not just in Nigeria but west Africa at large and they used the media to rewrite and revisit history. However they can only deform those who are not versed to access informations as the Benin/Togo and Benin kingdom still have their very documented history which have been corroborated by the British, Portuguese, French missionaries and colonialist. Yoruba history on the other hand are simply revisions and revised history of the Benin/Togo and Benin Kingdoms history.

The fact that Yoruba history says they are descendants of Oduduwa whom they claim fell from the sky, when in truth he was actually a Benin prince on an expansionist journey, this gives credence to the fact that Yorubas have no record of their history and the one they take pride in is simply a fallacious mirage.

NOTE: This post was summarized so Nairalanders can read to the end, some accounts, excerpts, dates and events have been removed to keep it short. You can do some research to get more information or get in touch for the full context therein.

CC:
donratcock, thuggcheetah, zz22, generalachuzia, ikeadewole, Stephleena, obdk, proudlyafonja adadike281 iskander2 DIDDIDDIEOMENKA, UGOMBA, CHERUV, investinowerri uduak2016

OP, you are either suffering from hubris (unbridled arrogance, self conceit, viral conceitedness, haughtiness, pride, vanity, self-importance, self-conceit, pomposity, superciliousness, feeling of superiority) or you are simply on the brink of insanity actuated by tribal bigotry!

Only a person lost to hubris or tethering on the edge of insanity at least would concoct such crap above.

What a pity!

DonCandido:


OP, you are either suffering from hubris (unbridled arrogance, self conceit, viral conceitedness, haughtiness, pride, vanity, self-importance, self-conceit, pomposity, superciliousness, feeling of superiority) or you are simply on the brink of insanity actuated by tribal bigotry!

Only a person lost to hubris or tethering on the edge of insanity at least would concoct such crap above.

What a pity!

it's okay abeg

I've always known that everything concerning these coneheads are nothing but lies lies and lies. Thanks op for the enlightenment.

Fatherofdragons:
I've always known that everything concerning these coneheads are nothing but lies lies and lies. Thanks op for the enlightenment.

Balderdash-

You can believe whatever that suits your irredeemable envy and inferiority complex. We can choose to ignore these rants, We know the truth and no spin-doctor or forebears of any human ancestors can undone these achievements nor rewrite history. Yoruba history stand tall amongst equals and non equal alike, word!!!

geosegun:


Balderdash-

You can believe whatever that suits your irredeemable envy and inferiority complex. We can choose to ignore these rants, We know the truth and no spin-doctor or forebears of any human ancestors can undone these achievements nor rewrite history. Yoruba history stand tall amongst equals and non equal alike, word!!!

Whatever

Very stupid thread. Oyo empire has been well documented. By contemporaries who were civilized at the time.

afonjaheadhunt:
We often read from the Yoruba media about the Oyo empire and how widespread and powerful this empire was, but no documents, finding or evidence any where in the world suggest these claims to be true only Yoruba folklore by the Yoruba revisionist elders and academicians, who have tried to rewrite their history by editing the feats of their conquerors to be That of Yorubas, but simple research or finding put all this claim to a fail test and simply portrays the Yorubas as a tribe that have been conquered since time immemorial as a matter of fact Yoruba land was split amongst to great African Kingdoms, Benin Kingdom and Dahomey kingdom this two kingdoms had their boundaries in present day south west Nigeria and shared the spoils of war within those bounds.

While every tribe in Nigeria have accounts of brutal wars with colonialist and invaders The Yorubas on their own part never confronted any of their colonialist or invaders they never challenged the Portuguese that gave Eko its name Lagos, the never confronted the British colonialists, they never challenged the Benin invaders whom became overlord in Lagos, installed a king and made Lagos a proxy of Benin kingdom, the old Oyo empire was overrun and brought to its knees by Dahomey women whom took their men as slaves, made their women maids and their children servants, The Fulani's conquered them in Illorin and installed an Emir, they Yorubas were over run by the Tiv, Nupe in Kabba and other Yoruba towns. Yorubas were simply a walk over in the history of Africa and the struggles for civilization and ethnic survival.

Yorubas claim that the Oyo empire stretches to Benin kingdom on the east and stretches to Benin republic and Togo on the west, this is one of the biggest lies ever told in the history of mankind, Africa and Nigeria as a nation. To be fair to history the reverse was actually the case. We all know that oduduwa who the Yorubas claim they are descendent from was actually a Benin prince whom went west to expand the Benin empire, the Yorubas on seeing the awe that came with the arrival and presence of Oduduwa the Benin prince pledge loyalty and support to him and rallied around him in Ile Ife which also became a Benin proxy like Lagos whom the Benins overruled. What the Yorubas refer to as Oyo empire was simply a administrative province for Benin Kingdom and Dahomey Kingdom being the center of both great empires.

On the western part it is common knowledge that the Dahomey women who from the Benin/Togo axis Present day Togo, moved and conquered eastward from the present day Togo to the present day Oyo state in south west Nigeria. Many parts of Yoruba land still speak a very corrupted version of the language of the Dahomey female warriors from Benin/Togo axis, Today you still find some Yoruba slave settlement in Benin/Togo the Yoruba slaves have been integrated in their society with coming of the white man, Slave trade and civilization. The Yorubas in Benin/Togo were slaves and spoils of war to Dahomey Kingdom, the Yorubas in Togo are ancestral descendants of Yorubas in present day south west Yoruba land in Nigeria. The relationship between the Yorubas and Benin/Togo is nothing short of a conqueror and conquered relationship or slave master relationship.

South west was divided and ruled by two great kingdoms. Benin Kingdom ruled to the west in Ile Ife axis down to Lagos, while present day Togo republic ruled to the East stretching all the way to Ibadan and Oyo present day Oyo state, Nigeria. However with the coming of the British to Nigeria Yorubas were wise to buy into the media and developed the media industry not just in Nigeria but west Africa at large and they used the media to rewrite and revisit history. However they can only deform those who are not versed to access informations as the Benin/Togo and Benin kingdom still have their very documented history which have been corroborated by the British, Portuguese, French missionaries and colonialist. Yoruba history on the other hand are simply revisions and revised history of the Benin/Togo and Benin Kingdoms history.

The fact that Yoruba history says they are descendants of Oduduwa whom they claim fell from the sky, when in truth he was actually a Benin prince on an expansionist journey, this gives credence to the fact that Yorubas have no record of their history and the one they take pride in is simply a fallacious mirage.

NOTE: This post was summarized so Nairalanders can read to the end, some accounts, excerpts, dates and events have been removed to keep it short. You can do some research to get more information or get in touch for the full context therein.

CC:
donratcock, thuggcheetah, zz22, generalachuzia, ikeadewole, Stephleena, obdk, proudlyafonja adadike281 iskander2 DIDDIDDIEOMENKA, UGOMBA, CHERUV, investinowerri uduak2016

This op lacks education. I don't get the impression you have an Athens login.

I don't get the impression you understand why Dahomey had to train women to fight. - most of their men had been killed from previous wars, defeats, which produced a society in which women outnumbered men. At the time they were raising their army to attack the Yoruba, they were paying tribute.

The Royal West African Frontier Force recruited Hausas and Yorubas because Britain targeted Nigerian martial cultures that produced people who could fight.

Although that is evidence of being bad ass, because they were deployed against the Japanese in Burma, lo wun , lo wun, it's also evidence of African stupidity. You should read up on the use of askari during the colonial wars to conquer Africa. Hausas and Yorubas were used to conquer the Ashanti kingdom in the Anglo-Ashanti wars. Go and study the battle honours of the RWAFF which includes firing the first shots of World War 1.

In terms of intellect, the Yoruba are among the first to invent steel in africa, after the Haya in Uganda.

We also produced a lot of the intellectuals that took part in the independence struggle to create Nigeria.

By avoiding dates in op, your article uses sensationalism to get attention. For instance, Ondoland has history that goes back to 1500 AD. If Dahomey conquered Yorubaland, like you said, in what decade was Dahomey ever in Ondoland? En?

The concept of Yoruba today is antiquated when you talk about history because the further back you go, to 1000 Ad, to 0 AD, the concept of the kingdom of Nri, kingdom of Oyo, kingdom of Benin becomes ridiculous because the proto-civilisations predate those modern social groups.

The prefix Ta in the word Ta-fa Ta-fa for archer actually dates back to a 8,500 bc "proto Niger-Congo" language and is shared by so many West African societies, that the linguistic evidence suggests the bow and arrow was invented in West Africa in the proto-S/W Nigerian civilisation. Which is a big deal when you consider the Ta Seti (4500 BC - 3500 BC) produced Egypt.

I-ra-wo , star , means "that" ("i" which contains Ra / light. or that ("I" which light entered "wo".

The history from 1800-1900 Ad therefore in no way reflects 9,500 BC to 1800 AD. The hegemony structure that involved Dahomey paying tribute to Oyo is only "history" relating to the last 400 years.

Complexity of iron technology (Peter Scmidt) and secure agricultural supply were the foundations of 3000 BC - 1, 000 AD empires and we had those mastered.

The talking drum could be used to communicate complex message over long distances ( 160 km in 2 hours), through a network of 6,000 villages within the Oyo hegemony.

I am happy for you to go and find your research to back up your op claim.

No! It is not enough to make spurious claims.

thinkafricanet:
This op lacks education. I don't get the impression you have an Athens login.

I don't get the impression you understand why Dahomey had to train women to fight. - most of their men had been killed from previous wars, defeats, which produced a society in which women outnumbered men. At the time they were raising their army to attack the Yoruba, they were paying tribute.

The Royal West African Frontier Force recruited Hausas and Yorubas because Britain targeted Nigerian martial cultures that produced people who could fight.

Although that is evidence of being bad ass, because they were deployed against the Japanese in Burma, lo wun , lo wun, it's also evidence of African stupidity. You should read up on the use of askari during the colonial wars to conquer Africa. Hausas and Yorubas were used to conquer the Ashanti kingdom in the Anglo-Ashanti wars. Go and study the battle honours of the RWAFF which includes firing the first shots of World War 1.

In terms of intellect, the Yoruba are among the first to invent steel in africa, after the Haya in Uganda.

We also produced a lot of the intellectuals that took part in the independence struggle to create Nigeria.

By avoiding dates in op, your article uses sensationalism to get attention. For instance, Ondoland has history that goes back to 1500 AD. If Dahomey conquered Yorubaland, like you said, in what decade was Dahomey ever in Ondoland? En?

The concept of Yoruba today is antiquated when you talk about history because the further back you go, to 1000 Ad, to 0 AD, the concept of the kingdom of Nri, kingdom of Oyo, kingdom of Benin becomes ridiculous because the proto-civilisations predate those modern social groups.

The prefix Ta in the word Ta-fa Ta-fa for archer actually dates back to a 8,500 bc "proto Niger-Congo" language and is shared by so many West African societies, that the linguistic evidence suggests the bow and arrow was invented in West Africa in the proto-S/W Nigerian civilisation. Which is a big deal when you consider the Ta Seti (4500 BC - 3500 BC) produced Egypt.

I-ra-wo , star , means "that" ("i" which contains Ra / light. or that ("I" which light entered "wo".

The history from 1800-1900 Ad therefore in no way reflects 9,500 BC to 1800 AD. The hegemony structure that involved Dahomey paying tribute to Oyo is only "history" relating to the last 400 years.

Complexity of iron technology (Peter Scmidt) and secure agricultural supply were the foundations of 3000 BC - 1, 000 AD empires and we had those mastered.

The talking drum could be used to communicate complex message over long distances ( 160 km in 2 hours), through a network of 6,000 villages within the Oyo hegemony.

I am happy for you to go and find your research to back up your op claim.

No! It is not enough to make spurious claims.

i think some pictures will explain better

Those who stopped the teaching of history in schools did a great damage to our society. There's no need for arguments when people know their history.

delpee:
Those who stopped the teaching of history in schools did a great damage to our society. There's no need for arguments when people know their history.

west Africa from the first arrival of the European in 14 century to 19th century wen Benin was conquered by British

davidnazee:


Do you know what an empire really is??
An empire should cover “different” groups of people/nations/languages.. Oyo only ruled over fellow Yoruba people. PLEASE that is NOT an empire!!
Great Benin ruled over Igbo, Yoruba, Igalas, all Edos, Togo, Dahomey, Ghana tribes. That is an EMPIRE!!

History

Seh-Dong-Hong-Beh, a leader of the Amazons
The origins of Dahomey can be traced back to the Fon people of the interior of the African continent, who banded together in a conglomerate in order to oppose the political authority of the Yoruba People of Oyo. Technically an official subject of the Yoruba of Oyo, the Fon people were forced to pay tribute to their political conquerors and were subjected to cavalry raids made by the Oyo armies in order to supply the slave trade.

In order to unite the Fon people in opposition to the Yoruba, leaders who rose to positions of power capitalized on the ability to perform well on the battlefield. With military skill being prized as the ultimate expression of authority, the king of the Fon came to embody uncontested authority, and his will was enforced by the army.

King Wegbaja rose to power in roughly 1650 and came to embody the militaristic values that had become embedded among the Fon people. Based in his capital of Abomey, Wegbaja and his successors succeeded in establishing a highly centralized state with a deep-rooted tradition of autocratic centralized government. Economically, Wegbaja and his successors profited mainly from the slave trade and relations with slavers along the Atlantic coast. As he embarked on wars to expand their territory, they began using rifles and other firearms traded with French and Spanish slave-traders for young men captured in battle, who fetched a very high price from the European slave-merchants.

Later expansion of Dahomey towards the coast met with resistance from the alafin, or ruler, of Oyo, who resented the political and economic rise of their subject. Soon after the march to the sea, the alafin of Oyo sent cavalry raids to Oyo in 1726, completely defeating the army. Later cavalry invasions in 1728, 1729, and 1730, in which Oyo proved sucessful, hindered the plans for coastal expansion.

In 1902 Dahomey was declared a French colony. In the movement of African decolonization following World War II, Dahomey became an autonomous republic, gaining full independence in 1960. The Republic of Dahomey changed its name to Benin in 1975.

Dahomey has been featured in a variety of literary works. For example, "In Dahomey" by Paul Laurence Dunbar, produced in 1903, was the first all-black musical performed on Broadway.

In 1971, American novelist Frank Yerby published The Man From Dahomey, a historical novel set partially in Dahomey, which introduces rich Dahomean culture to the reader.