Alright, now that you are here, you can leave out the "soul train" advert (lol. . .things one has to do to get noticed. . .lol).We keep hearing of miracle nights,TB Joshua, Chris Yaks and the rest of them.They claim to be "miracle workers".They heal the sick and all what not.Some claim to be prophets.This sounds good doesn't it?

I am puzzled though.Why do all these "miracles" have to be in "church" and widely televised and sometimes, even on the internet.As far as the bible goes. . .Jesus walked through the land and healed the sick,resurrected the dead,feed the hungry, brought hope to the hopeless and spread the gospel as he traveled with his "legedis benz".Why are our "prophets and healers" different?Why can't they go to Igbobi hospital and heal just ONE invalid there?Why can't they go to Ikeja mortuary and resurrect just ONE corpse?Why can't they go through the streets of Lagos and heal all those cripples that stubbornly refuse to go in spite of Fashola's antics?

Talking about prophets. . .the papers are always filled with "prophesies".Why can't there prophesies be precise and accurate.Why do all their prophesies follow this format :

In the year 2010, a major politician will die. . .life will be hard. . .fuel price will go up . . .the US will experience a catastrophe. . .the PDP will go through problems. . .bla bla bla (same old cow dung).Why can't they speak the truth to power?Why can't they tell these so called leaders that they are all THIEVES? Why can't they tell them what they really are?Instead it's useless "prophesies" and some dumb Nigerians will rush over to the " men of God",fill form to see him and be told rubbish about their lives (which they already know).

As far as i concerned, any healer or "man of God" that cannot go into Igbobi/General hospital or any other major hospital to heal the REAL PEOPLE IN NEED is a fraud.So therefore :

Chris Yaks is a fraud including all other renown "ministers of God" that defraud Nigerians on the daily.And for all those die-hard Chris Yaks fans who dare come here to defend s**t they don't know about, first ask your Yakky pastor to go to Igbobi and heal the sick before you come on here to talk trash.I know there are hundreds of die-hard yakky fans who can defend Chris Oyakilome till death do them part but have any of you half-brained yakky fans ever wondered why ALL the "miracles" happened only in church?

I read a post of some guy who reported the yakky activities as being a fraud and as i trust, yakky fans came on here to talk crap.They would rather talk crap,pick holes in the post rather than come up with logical counter posts (i sabi una tactics so f**k you).

@Logical NL people

Sorry if my post came off as hostile. . .just wanted to let the crap talkers know i wasn't having any of their usual counters e.g

"Touch not my anointed and do the prophets no harm"

WHO ANOINTED THEM? WHO MADE THEM PROPHETS?WETIN DEM DEY SEE?


I expect replies. . .both supportive and counter-supportive

@Seun Osewa and NL in general

Happy new year in advance.

mccloud224:

Alright, now that you are here, you can leave out the "soul train" advert (lol. . .things one has to do to get noticed. . .lol).We keep hearing of miracle nights,TB Joshua, Chris Yaks and the rest of them.They claim to be "miracle workers".They heal the sick and all what not.Some claim to be prophets.This sounds good doesn't it?

I am puzzled though.Why do all these "miracles" have to be in "church" and widely televised and sometimes, even on the internet.As far as the bible goes. . .Jesus walked through the land and healed the sick,resurrected the dead,feed the hungry, brought hope to the hopeless and spread the gospel as he traveled with his "legedis benz".Why are our "prophets and healers" different?Why can't they go to Igbobi hospital and heal just ONE invalid there?Why can't they go to Ikeja mortuary and resurrect just ONE corpse?Why can't they go through the streets of Lagos and heal all those cripples that stubbornly refuse to go in spite of Fashola's antics?

Talking about prophets. . .the papers are always filled with "prophesies".Why can't there prophesies be precise and accurate.Why do all their prophesies follow this format :

In the year 2010, a major politician will die. . .life will be hard. . .fuel price will go up . . .the US will experience a catastrophe. . .the PDP will go through problems. . .bla bla bla (same old cow dung).Why can't they speak the truth to power?Why can't they tell these so called leaders that they are all THIEVES? Why can't they tell them what they really are?Instead it's useless "prophesies" and some dumb Nigerians will rush over to the " men of God",fill form to see him and be told rubbish about their lives (which they already know).

As far as i concerned, any healer or "man of God" that cannot go into Igbobi/General hospital or any other major hospital to heal the REAL PEOPLE IN NEED is a fraud.So therefore :

Chris Yaks is a fraud including all other renown "ministers of God" that defraud Nigerians on the daily.And for all those die-hard Chris Yaks fans who dare come here to defend s**t they don't know about, first ask your Yakky pastor to go to Igbobi and heal the sick before you come on here to talk trash.I know there are hundreds of die-hard yakky fans who can defend Chris Oyakilome till death do them part but have any of you half-brained yakky fans ever wondered why ALL the "miracles" happened only in church?

I read a post of some guy who reported the yakky activities as being a fraud and as i trust, yakky fans came on here to talk crap.They would rather talk crap,pick holes in the post rather than come up with logical counter posts (i sabi una tactics so be intimate with you).

@Logical NL people

Sorry if my post came off as hostile. . .just wanted to let the crap talkers know i wasn't having any of their usual counters e.g

"Touch not my anointed and do the prophets no harm"

WHO ANOINTED THEM? WHO MADE THEM PROPHETS?WETIN DEM DEY SEE?


I expect replies. . .both supportive and counter-supportive

@Seun Osewa and NL in general

Happy new year in advance.

Due to the strict word filter on NL i have to re-edit a piece of this post and get my message to the crap talkers on NL.

(i sabi una tactics so be intimate with you).

This ====>

(I sabi una tactics so bleep you).

Hope this gets through. . .lol

Don't tell me y'allz is scared to talk about this. . .lol

mccloud224:

Don't tell me y'allz is scared to talk about this. . .lol

Well some of us have consistgently pointed out and written about the fraud going on in christianity today, i write not becos i am proud of it but becos i am deeply ashame and pained at how christianity is being rubbished today and used to exploit people when the christian message is about giving hope to the hopeless and helping those in need around us. Unfortunately, itis our christian leaders who are supposed to lead us aright that are at the helm of distorting the religion. Fruadsters abound in the religion today and some of them are really very convoincing and that is why it would be very diffcult to get the deluded worshippers of crook oyakhilome to see the light. Even Jesus warned that the very elect would almost be deceived how much less the lost souls in all these business centers parading themselves as churches. My advice to all christians is to genuinely seek christ by reading his direct teachings in the bible and abiding by them. You don't need any pastor to tell you the truth.

@McCloud224:

Thanks for pointing out this thread. I think you've missed the message those of us who defend Christianity are trying to pass.

Right from the onset of belief in Jesus, there have been concerted efforts to discredit Him. Starting from the Romans empire, through the second Roman empire known as the Papacy, through the differing denominations who basically opened branches and outlets (wearing big capes and flowing robes) because of the power, wealth and follower-ship it gave them to today's high powered businessmen, it has been the same story. People have needs and these merchants have used every trick in the book to drain them. Not God, but the merchants, have drained them.

Part of the problem is due to the desperation people hang around their own necks. Fellowship with others of like faith is fine but why do you need someone to pray for you and tell you what is to come. Why should you believe that financing somebody's dream of building a "church" that seats 100, 000 at the cost of your own lunch is going to be why God will bless you. If you have and wish to give, fine, but when that giving becomes compulsion, somethings wrong. The Word of God says people die for lack of knowledge not because someone fooled them. I'm sure it would be hard to convince you 1 + 2 = 45. Why? Because you know Math! Isaiah also teaches us to "seek out the book of the Lord and read" for therein is life. When you do not understand the instructions of God, any sharp guy can come at you with fearful prophecies, half truths and you likely will fall for them. Throw in a couple of bad dreams due to constipation and guy, your check-book will come out.

The prophecies in papers and claims of miracles only buttress my point. Why are people looking for such and who said you cannot ask God YOURSELF for your miracle?

KunleOshob:

Well some of us have consistgently pointed out and written about the fraud going on in christianity today, i write not becos i am proud of it but becos i am deeply ashame and pained at how christianity is being rubbished today and used to exploit people when the christian message is about giving hope to the hopeless and helping those in need around us. Unfortunately, itis our christian leaders who are supposed to lead us aright that are at the helm of distorting the religion. Fruadsters abound in the religion today and some of them are really very convoincing and that is why it would be very diffcult to get the deluded worshippers of crook oyakhilome to see the light. Even Jesus warned that the very elect would almost be deceived how much less the lost souls in all these business centers parading themselves as churches. My advice to all christians is to genuinely seek christ by reading his direct teachings in the bible and abiding by them. You don't need any pastor to tell you the truth.

Let me interrupt you at this point. permit me to ask you. . . .what is the mind of God concerning false prophets?

@OP, no be only you wey tire. . .

noetic15:

Let me interrupt you at this point. permit me to ask you. . .  .what is the mind of God concerning false prophets?

Permit me to reply: Jeremiah spoke God's mind on false prophets in his book, specifically here
23:16 This is what the LORD Almighty says:
       "Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you;
       they fill you with false hopes.
       They speak visions from their own minds,
       not from the mouth of the LORD.

noetic15:

Let me interrupt you at this point. permit me to ask you. . . .what is the mind of God concerning false prophets?

@AKO
Thanx for that response but i would like to give three more biblical damnation depicting the mind of God on false prophets

Jeremiah 8:8-10:

    8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise because we have the word of the Lord,”
      when your teachers have twisted it by writing lies?
    9 These wise teachers will fall
      into the trap of their own foolishness,
   for they have rejected the word of the Lord.      Are they so wise after all?
   10 I will give their wives to others
      and their farms to strangers.
   From the least to the greatest,
      their lives are ruled by greed.
   Yes, even my prophets and priests are like that.
      They are all frauds.

Titus 1:11:
11 These false teachers must be silenced, because they are turning whole families away from the truth by their false teaching. And they do it only for money.

2 Peter 2:3:
3 In their greed these false prophets will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

Also what most of what we get at this time of year is so-called prophecies of doom, doom and more doom, as if that is all God has planned for the world

Seems my thread has been re-edited (i liked the soul train headline better). . .lol

@Moderators

Why is my mccloud224 id on "hold"?

A_K_O:

@OP, no be only you wey tire. . .
Permit me to reply: Jeremiah spoke God's mind on false prophets in his book, specifically here
23:16 This is what the LORD Almighty says:
       "Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you;
       they fill you with false hopes.
       They speak visions from their own minds,
       not from the mouth of the LORD.

KunleOshob:

@AKO
Thanx for that response but i would like to give three more biblical damnation depicting the mind of God on false prophets

Jeremiah 8:8-10:

    8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise because we have the word of the Lord,”
      when your teachers have twisted it by writing lies?
    9 These wise teachers will fall
      into the trap of their own foolishness,
   for they have rejected the word of the Lord.      Are they so wise after all?
   10 I will give their wives to others
      and their farms to strangers.
   From the least to the greatest,
      their lives are ruled by greed.
   Yes, even my prophets and priests are like that.
      They are all frauds.

Titus 1:11:
11 These false teachers must be silenced, because they are turning whole families away from the truth by their false teaching. And they do it only for money.

2 Peter 2:3:
3 In their greed these false prophets will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

I did not not ask for God's opinion on FALSE prophecies, , . . .I asked for His opinion on FALSE TEACHERS

hint: why not search the words of Jesus as recorded in the NT.

@ KunleOshob.

1. I do appreciate and support your rigorous and genuine clamour for the TRUTH in the teachings of the gospel in churches as u have repeatedly championed on this forum. I must confess that your rich analyses have been very educating. My criticism is stemed from deep concerns that just as u antagonise others now. . . others have come and also antagonised their predecessors. .  . they have gone ahead to form ministries that became worse off compared to the ones they "rebelled" against. This explains the many ministries in Christiandom today.

2. The dogmatic approach to many xtian subjects makes it refreshing that analyses are being made in a Godly manner to educate the brethren on the subjects of God's word on this forum. . ,  . . . I may not say it often. . but u are doing a great job here.

3. You need to understand the opinion of God on false teachers. It is God's will that false teachers exist, it is God's will that they do all that they do and grow within the church, It is God's will that they deceive as many people as they can ,. . . . .this is simply deduced from
a. mathew 13:24-30 . .  . . . lay particular emphasis on verse 30

24Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
      "The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

29" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "

also read Matthew 13:36–43
b. mathew 24:5
5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

c. mathew 7:21
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

@mccloud224, YOU REALLY SOUND FUNNY THEN ASK YOUR THAT DID JESUS HEALED ALL THE HANDICAPS DURING HIS TIME MIND YOU THERE ARE MORGUE DURING THE TIME OF CHRIST.SO, JESUS COULD HAVE BEEN VISITING THE THE MORGUE RATHER THAN TEACHING THE LIVING ONE HOW TO SERVE THEIR LIVING GOD .THEN FOR AND ASK GOD THAT WHY DID HE NOT GIVE US IMMORTAL LIFE. YOU DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY.

noetic15:

@ KunleOshob.

1. I do appreciate and support your rigorous and genuine clamour for the TRUTH in the teachings of the gospel in churches as u have repeatedly championed on this forum. I must confess that your rich analyses have been very educating. My criticism is stemed from deep concerns that just as u antagonise others now. . . others have come and also antagonised their predecessors. .  . they have gone ahead to form ministries that became worse off compared to the ones they "rebelled" against. This explains the many ministries in Christiandom today.

2. The dogmatic approach to many xtian subjects makes it refreshing that analyses are being made in a Godly manner to educate the brethren on the subjects of God's word on this forum. . ,  . . . I may not say it often. . but u are doing a great job here.

3. You need to understand the opinion of God on false teachers. It is God's will that false teachers exist, it is God's will that they do all that they do and grow within the church, It is God's will that they deceive as many people as they can ,. . . . .this is simply deduced from
a. mathew 13:24-30 . .  . . . lay particular emphasis on verse 30

24Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
      "The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

29" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "

also read Matthew 13:36–43
b. mathew 24:5
5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

c. mathew 7:21
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Thanx for the compliments and the words of cautioning, i do admit that sometimes i get carried away and use words i wouldn't otherwise use but the truth is that religion is a very emotional thing and it is easy to get carried away when relgious issues are being discussed. As per being dogmatic/ setting up a ministry, as i have said several times on this forum i have no such intention of setting up a church. The best i would do if God provides me with the resources is to be heavily involved in charity and make meaningful impact on improving the lives of the down troden, this is my idea of ministry and not necessarily establishing a church. On the issue of it being God's will for false teachers to exist, i think that is not appropriately stated at best we can say that God allows them to exist in the same way God allows evil to exist amongst several other undesirable things. But it would be wrong to sit back and allow them to just go an rampage and destroy lives and cause people to loose their salvation and that is why Paul said they must be silenced in titus 1:11 less they destroy families. I believe the several warnings against false prophets/ teachers in the bible is meant for us to learn from and also share with others. It would be wrong of us as christians to jut sit back and see our brethen being led astray and in danger of loosing their salvation. I know most of us are not sure who is genuine and are afraid of being Judgemental, but having studied the bible well on the topic and read clear biblical injunctions on recognizing false teachers along with the danger they pose to the body of christ i believe all christians should stand up for the truth and challenge that which is wrong.


The matthew 24:5 you asked me to read please note that prior to the statement in verse 5 is a warning in verse 4. It is this warning of christ that i am reminding people about.

Matthew 24:4-5:

   4 Jesus told them, “Don’t let anyone mislead you, 5 for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am annointed.’ They will deceive many.

Also there is this instruction form Paul which i believe all christians should embrace :

1 Thessalonians 5:21:
21 but test everything that is said. Hold on to what is good.

We can't just accept everyman that claims to be a man of God just becos he says so or becos he is popular we must test his teachings to be sure it confirms with the teachings and spirit of christ. Christ also had this to say on false teachers

Matthew 15:8-9:

    8 ‘These people honor me with their lips,
      but their hearts are far from me.
    9 Their worship is a farce,
      for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.

I am sure you are aware that the above scripture is still very relevat in our churches today.

jcross22:

@mccloud224, YOU REALLY SOUND FUNNY THEN ASK YOUR THAT DID JESUS HEALED ALL THE HANDICAPS DURING HIS TIME MIND YOU THERE ARE MORGUE DURING THE TIME OF CHRIST.SO, JESUS COULD HAVE BEEN VISITING THE THE MORGUE RATHER THAN TEACHING THE LIVING ONE HOW TO SERVE THEIR LIVING GOD .THEN FOR AND ASK GOD THAT WHY DID HE NOT GIVE US IMMORTAL LIFE. YOU DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY.

Read the book of Genesis.The answer is there for you (this is mccloud224)

@KunleOshob:

I'm sure you know you're one of my favorite posters here. But I wonder if your anger towards these "ministers" is not misdirected. True it is that they derail many and are running businesses rather than working for God. However, we both know that each individual is responsible for his own salvation. Isa 34:16 tells us to "seek out the book of the Lord and read" yet I am certain most "Christians" have never even read that verse. Worst still is Hosea 4:6 which reads "My people are destroyed from for lack of knowledge, Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests, because you have ignored the law of your God, I also will ignore your children". I read this to mean that the lack of knowledge which destroys most (if not all) comes from their PERSONAL rejection of knowledge which could be attributed to a refusal to study and read to be approved.

I think your anger should be more directed at people who have turned men like themselves into Oracles and need someone to tell them whether Eba is better than Bread for breakfast today. Remember your quote above "Don't let anyone mislead you". Its at us not at the businessmen pastors. More focus should be on individuals being encouraged to read and study for themselves. I know you know that you can scream at the businessmen at 400 decibels for 400 years yet they will not listen cos na dem moneypot you dey attack O.

Lets start screaming at the people. Screaming at the pastors only makes them seem more relevant and they actually gain more sympathy from their followers who come at you (imagine the irony) with "touch not my prophet et al"

@nuclearboy
thanx for your concern and words of advice, i do agree that i might not be going about this in the best possible way however it is really difficult going about this any other way becos people would not even give you an audience if you try and suggest that their pastor or G.O is fallible. They see these people as demi -gods who can do no wrong. However this is a public forum were we all come to discuss express our selves and exchange ideas. I discover i can express my views in a more articulate way in writing than i can do verbally cos in verbal communication people tend not to hear you out and start arguing even before you make your point. But on this forum at least you have the opportunity to completely express your views in writing without being interrupted. I know i have made a lot of enemies for myself on this forum likewise i have made a lot of friends and i believe i have been able to impact a few people with the true gospel of christ and what it really means. Christianity is a journey and not a destination and we all have to strive to know the truth and walk in it. I myself i have many short comings as a christian and i cannot claim to be living a perfect christian life. The only thing i can claim is that i genuinely strive to do his will.

By writing on a public forum like this some preachers would read it and might re-asses the the doctrines they preach if it matches up to christ's standard, other believers would also read it and might learn a thing or two about the true gospel of christ and take their preachers to task, and even non believers might come to see real christianity in better light as opposed to popular church dogma. I have been told by at least one atheist on this forum that if it is the way i explained christianity to him is the way it is being practised it would make more sense and be more meaningful to humanity. Even though i still have reason to believe he is still an atheist, but i can at least say i pricked something in him

Forget about the enemies. We both know its the message of Christ they hate and that reflects on you due to association. However, their enmity only puts a stamp of approval on you as its obvious its the truth that the enemy hates.

I agree a few of the pastors would read but again, I come back to the notion that you're standing against their livelihood. You will prick their conscience but not likely change their ways. Having an idea of your Biblical scholarship from what you've written on this forum, I'd have advocated taking topics and treating them from the Bible. "Hero-worship/mentor-ship in Christianity" for example. You might be surprised that people will go away from such topics looking at themselves and their mentors in a different way. "Personal study/prayer relationship with God" would be another lovely topic. I found that the more I prayed and read the Bible, the less I needed a bridge between me and God till it hit me - The Holy Spirit was all the bridge I needed. Of course, there will be dissent (maybe even from me in the exact interpretation of issues) but I've come to find that such help us personally. My Conversation with DeepSight on the thread https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-369330.0.html has today put me in a more knowledgeable situation than when that thread started and that because we disagreed and I had to think and study more.

Whatever you decide, keep up the good work. I just hate to see people throwing "Touch not my anointed and do my prophet no harm" around because we inadvertently garner sympathy for the Vultures, who being also wolves, know how to maximize such sympathy.

@Nuclearboy
Thanx for the words of advice, really aprreciated. But if you go through my previous posts, you would observe that i have initiated several treads on topics bothering around the way we practise christianity today with emphasis on showing wre we are getting it wrong from the biblical perspective. All the same your comments are much appreciated and noted. Would try to change my tatics in the new year. I also seize this opportunity to wish you a wonderful and fufilling new year ahead.

I wish you the same, Brother. And I seem to have missed such threads as you have stated you initiated. Will try to search for some of them.

I think Kunleoshob should consider buying a bulletproof vest if he is to continue on this mission