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Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by AlphaStyles(m): 9:53am On Apr 16, 2017
realestniggah:

I wasn't even born and he died for my sin..wow amazing
yeah so that we can have eternal life. so that we and God can be 1 again

1 Like

Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by UncleSnr(m): 9:53am On Apr 16, 2017
Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by realestniggah: 9:57am On Apr 16, 2017
AlphaStyles:


yeah so that we can have eternal life. so that we and God can be 1 again

seem unfair to me that some people are going to live their so called internal life in hell fire
Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by Nobody: 9:57am On Apr 16, 2017
AnonyNymous:
Christians are yet to explain to me why God cannot just forgive without sacrifices (animal, or human)

You should know that it was not Jesus who brought the doctrine of the original sin and the blood atonement.
Paul brought it and that's why Paul is considered as the founder of Christianity.
You seemed to b confused with sin and sacrifice.
When u sin and you asked God to forgive u after repentance,its only natural that God will forgive u as long as the sin is btw u n god.

1 Like

Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by EnigmaticEnigma(m): 9:58am On Apr 16, 2017
hopefulLandlord:
I reject the idea that Jesus "died" for anybody's sins or any other reason (many bad arguments here) specifically because if you die horribly on the strangely-named "Good" Friday and then come waltzing back out according to the story on Sunday afternoon, you haven't "died". But people don't like it when I rephrase it to "Jesus had the shittiest weekend ever for your sins." I'm not even sure how bad the rest of his weekend was. Was he strolling around in hell? Chilling with his dad/himself/petting zoo/aviary?

Like many others, I don't mean to minimize the suffering of everyone who was crucified, including this guy. While not the most terrible way to die that I can think of, I'm sure it was just awful. But can someone explain how the "forsaking" part works? If Jesus is god, how can he forsake himself? If he's not, wasn't it the plan for God to give his only begotten son to have the shittiest weekend ever for your sins? In that case, this is collusion, not abandonment, right? Or did Jesus not know? How could he not? (And it would make Judas a necessary part of the plan, and maybe the most loyal character in the story, knowing how he would be portrayed later).

Is the substitutional atonement only "activated" if Jesus is unaware of his own plan? How can he keep his own plans from himself? His character seems to have a moment of psychic prediction at the last supper.

I find this whole thing very convoluted and confusing.

What makes you think that Jesus was unaware of what was to come?

Scripture is filled with evidence of him being aware of his fate throughout his life.

Let's say you were Judas I was Jesus at the time and I say to you, one of you will betray me, wouldn't it be left to you at that point to make a choice?

In no way was Judas influenced to make a choice at that very moment. His choice was his and his alone.

Who is to say that if Judas hadn't betrayed Jesus, that he still wouldn't have been crucified on the cross?

1 Like

Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by aalangel(f): 9:58am On Apr 16, 2017
Tobilexy:
He died to save the world as presupposed, similarly, Human sacrifice is used as a propitiatory sacrifice to appease the gods and to ritually cleanse the community.


Human beings as an offering to a god and as part of a
ritual. The victims are usually killed in a ritualistic way that is meant to appease the gods or the spirits. The concept of sacrifice is not bereft in Christianity as it is in African religion

Brother, Jesus is not a human being.
Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by Zenithpeak(m): 10:03am On Apr 16, 2017
Tobilexy:
He died to save the world as presupposed, similarly, Human sacrifice is used as a propitiatory sacrifice to appease the gods and to ritually cleanse the community.


Human beings as an offering to a god and as part of a
ritual. The victims are usually killed in a ritualistic way that is meant to appease the gods or the spirits. The concept of sacrifice is not bereft in Christianity as it is in African religion



If anyone is still asking these kind of question by this time when this age is counting down every second. What a misplaced priority!

Carefully read the conversation between JESUS CHRIST (that was crucified and risen) and Thomas who could'nt believe at first until he had first hand encounter with Christ.

Now, the way to the salvation of your precious soul is still open, jump into it, tomorrow may not come.

Be saved from the day of the vengeance of the Lord.

Give your life to Jesus Christ.
Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by Onechancearmy(m): 10:12am On Apr 16, 2017
There are several reasons why the sacrifice of Christ on the cross does not violate the prohibition against human sacrifice. First, Jesus wasn’t merely human. If He were, then His sacrifice would have also been a temporary one because one human life couldn’t possibly cover the sins of the multitudes who ever existed. Neither could one finite human life atone for sin against an infinite God. The only viable sacrifice must be an infinite one, which means only God Himself could atone for the sins of mankind. Only God Himself, an infinite Being, could pay the penalty owed to Himself. This is why God had to become a Man and dwell among men (John 1:14). No other sacrifice would suffice.

Second, God didn’t sacrifice Jesus. Rather, Jesus, as God incarnate, sacrificed Himself. No one forced Him. He laid down His life willingly, as He made clear speaking about His life: “No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again” (John 10:18). God the Son sacrificed Himself to God the Father and thereby fulfilled all the requirements of the Law. Unlike the temporary sacrifices, Jesus’ once-for-all-time sacrifice was followed by His resurrection. He laid down His life and took it up again, thereby providing eternal life for all who would ever believe in Him and accept His sacrifice for their sins. He did this out of love for the Father and for all those the Father has given Him (John 6:37–40).

2 Likes

Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by Mujtahida: 10:12am On Apr 16, 2017
AnonyNymous:
Christians are yet to explain to me why God cannot just forgive without sacrifices (animal, or human)
Is it not weird that with all our wickednesses we forgive when we do forgive without asking for human or animal sacrifice yet the loving father must scent his aroma of sacrifices before he can forgive. For me ehn sin is to hurt your fellow human beings, to do them wrong, to do them evil or even to do evil to yourself - that's what sin is to me. The idea that we sin against God is pure bullshit.

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Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by HomoDroid(m): 10:14am On Apr 16, 2017
sonmvayina:
A sacrifice to end all sacrifice
..problem though, while will God, sacrifice his son to himself to appease himself, so that he can forgive his servants..

It is human folly to try and understand or prove everything, including things that have been in existence far too long (quoting the man reputed to be wisest so far - King Solomon)

Just like an iceberg, barely just about 10% is visible while the major part is embedded under the surface. Most learned people and scholars find out too late that the more you know, the more you find the need to know more, until information overload explodes in your head!

There are too many things in life that we already know. Each stream of knowledge is more than enough to enrich an individual and humanity stupendously.

There was a time I tried to rationalise the Universe, which virtually has no limit. My thinking was why would something have no boundaries? Then I concluded that if it has boundaries, what would exist beyond the boundary - another expedition into the unknown.

Moral of this discuss is that no single individual can explain or prove all things in existence. The world is of necessity full of unexplained mysteries, which the Bible explains belong to God. A king (or would-be King) must seek them out, but only God decides whether to reveal then, to whom and when!

I pity the so-called atheists on this forum. God is using them to prove Himself. They are unwittingly playing the vessel of dishonour, thinking they are so knowing and smart!

1 Like

Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by majalisa(m): 10:16am On Apr 16, 2017
Demigods666:
Na today you know say the Bible god na blood thirsty god?

But the deluded xtians are too deluded to see this.
ignorance at its peak
Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by Zenithpeak(m): 10:17am On Apr 16, 2017
hopefulLandlord:
I reject the idea that Jesus "died" for anybody's sins or any other reason (many bad arguments here) specifically because if you die horribly on the strangely-named "Good" Friday and then come waltzing back out according to the story on Sunday afternoon, you haven't "died". But people don't like it when I rephrase it to "Jesus had the shittiest weekend ever for your sins." I'm not even sure how bad the rest of his weekend was. Was he strolling around in hell? Chilling with his dad/himself/petting zoo/aviary?

Like many others, I don't mean to minimize the suffering of everyone who was crucified, including this guy. While not the most terrible way to die that I can think of, I'm sure it was just awful. But can someone explain how the "forsaking" part works? If Jesus is god, how can he forsake himself? If he's not, wasn't it the plan for God to give his only begotten son to have the shittiest weekend ever for your sins? In that case, this is collusion, not abandonment, right? Or did Jesus not know? How could he not? (And it would make Judas a necessary part of the plan, and maybe the most loyal character in the story, knowing how he would be portrayed later).

Is the substitutional atonement only "activated" if Jesus is unaware of his own plan? How can he keep his own plans from himself? His character seems to have a moment of psychic prediction at the last supper.

I find this whole thing very convoluted and confusing.




No matter how convoluted and confused you are, it does not change the truth about the deity of JESUS CHRIST.

The only problem here is you and not Christ. you may keep confusing yourself here on earth but I'm sure there is nothing contradictory up there in the yonder.
Shalom!
Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by hopefulLandlord: 10:20am On Apr 16, 2017
Zenithpeak:





No matter how convoluted and confused you are, it does not change the truth about the deity of JESUS CHRIST.

The only problem here is you and not Christ. you may keep confusing yourself here on earth but I'm sure there is nothing contradictory up there in the yonder.
Shalom!

that explains why the Jews don't believe all these nonsense and have more 8 Muslims for every one Christian but a Nigerian read from a book and quickly concluded that the Jews (who lived with Jesus at the time) are wrong; a book handed to them by their slavemasters

3 Likes

Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by Nobody: 10:23am On Apr 16, 2017
Adonis3:
Anyone who calls the "Death" of Jesus the "greatest" gift and sacrifice ever is only deceiving himself

Scripture declares

In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Heb. 9.22
If you don't accept the reality of sin, then, you obviously won't get it cos you'll never see there is anything to atone for.

Adonis3:
Oh yes, he was God's only son. But then, he allowed him to die knowing he had the power to raise him. Doesn't seem like a sacrifice to me.

Yes, God knew he would raise him up, but do you honestly think of death as some kind of pleasant experience where you just sleep and you don't wake up? Think again my friend. Has death ever stared you in the face? Perhaps you should ask someone who has had such an experience.

And what makes it worse is the fact that Jesus had the power to not undergo such death. He declared

Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? Matt 26.53.
A Roman Legion was made up of 6,000 men. So you do the math.

So the fact that Jesus knew he would rise again doesn't detract from the horrible reality of facing that death, with all the torture he had to endure, much less when he had the power to stop it.

Therefore, it is a big deal for God, the Lord of the world, to die for his subjects. To even allow himself become a man is mind-boggling. Imagine the potter becoming clay so that clay may live. I guess it is way over your kind of logic because you don't believe there is any sin to atone for, ergo, you see no need for sacrifice


Your kind of logic is exactly the reason the Apostle Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 1.23.

NIV: but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

NLT:So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it's all nonsense.


I leave you with this hymn by Cardinal Newman on this blessed Easter day. Please meditate on it. Meditate on the double reality of sin and death. When you come to grips with those two, you'll have a better perspective.

Praise to the Holiest in the height,
and in the depth be praise;
in all his words most wonderful,
most sure in all his ways!

O loving wisdom of our God!
When all was sin and shame,
a second Adam to the fight
and to the rescue came.

O wisest love! that flesh and blood,
which did in Adam fail,
should strive afresh against the foe,
should strive, and should prevail;

and that the highest gift of grace
should flesh and blood refine:
God's presence and his very self,
and essence all-divine.

O generous love! that he who smote
in man for ma the foe,
the double agony in Man
for man should undergo.

And in the garden secretly,
and on the cross on high,
should teach his brethren, and inspire
to suffer and to die.

Praise to the Holiest in the height,
and in the depth be praise;
in all his words most wonderful,
most sure in all his ways!

1 Like

Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by Nobody: 10:28am On Apr 16, 2017
sonmvayina:
A sacrifice to end all sacrifice
..problem though, while will God, sacrifice his son to himself to appease himself, so that he can forgive his servants..
if Jesus were to be God
who was governing the world before the birth of Jesus

1 Like

Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by Nobody: 10:28am On Apr 16, 2017
hopefulLandlord:
I reject the idea that Jesus "died" for anybody's sins or any other reason (many bad arguments here) specifically because if you die horribly on the strangely-named "Good" Friday and then come waltzing back out according to the story on Sunday afternoon, you haven't "died". But people don't like it when I rephrase it to "Jesus had the shittiest weekend ever for your sins." I'm not even sure how bad the rest of his weekend was. Was he strolling around in hell? Chilling with his dad/himself/petting zoo/aviary?

Like many others, I don't mean to minimize the suffering of everyone who was crucified, including this guy. While not the most terrible way to die that I can think of, I'm sure it was just awful. But can someone explain how the "forsaking" part works? If Jesus is god, how can he forsake himself? If he's not, wasn't it the plan for God to give his only begotten son to have the shittiest weekend ever for your sins? In that case, this is collusion, not abandonment, right? Or did Jesus not know? How could he not? (And it would make Judas a necessary part of the plan, and maybe the most loyal character in the story, knowing how he would be portrayed later).

Is the substitutional atonement only "activated" if Jesus is unaware of his own plan? How can he keep his own plans from himself? His character seems to have a moment of psychic prediction at the last supper.

I find this whole thing very convoluted and confusing.

Do you honestly think you can understand the divine mysteries?

If you understand him, he's not God, says St. Augustine. That is why it is called a mystery
But there is hope for you. According to St. Augustine, "I believe in order to understand, and I understand the better to believe."

See my other reply up there
Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by kilo4sure: 10:30am On Apr 16, 2017
AnonyNymous:
Christians are yet to explain to me why God cannot just forgive without sacrifices (animal, or human)
Methinks, it is not that God cannot forgive without sacrifice, but that the effect of the sin is abolished by sacrifice. Even when God hath forgiven his people they could still be under slavery and bondage due to the effect of so much sin from the community as a whole except a ransom be paid to buy them again.

1 Like

Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by Nobody: 10:30am On Apr 16, 2017
bamidelee:

if Jesus were to be God
who was governing the world before the birth of Jesus


He existed before he "took on flesh"
I'm not sure I understand your question correctly though
Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by hopefulLandlord: 10:31am On Apr 16, 2017
TheLordIsGr8:


Do you honestly think you can understand the divine mysteries?

If you understand him, he's not God, says St. Augustine. That is why it is called a mystery
But there is hope for you. According to St. Augustine, "I believe in order to understand, and I understand the better to believe."

See my other reply up there

Fallacy of Appealing to Authority
Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by HomoDroid(m): 10:32am On Apr 16, 2017
Mujtahida:

Is it not weird that with all our wickednesses we forgive when we do forgive without asking for human or animal sacrifice yet the loving father must scent his aroma of sacrifices before he can forgive. For me ehn sin is to hurt your fellow human beings, to do them wrong, to do them evil or even to do evil to yourself - that's what sin is to me. The idea that we sin against God is pure bullshit.

I do not fully understand the concept. My take is this:

Jesus Christ is that part of God that is Justice. Many people (especially of other religions) find it difficult to understand the concept that though their is only of true God Almighty, He can exist in more than one form and still be complete depending on the realm of existence!

God had to lower that part without breaking the code that holds the entire universe. God did not sacrifice His Son, rather, the Son (God) sacrificed Himself to Himself - meaning that He lowered the standard of Justice (eye for eye. blood for blood, etc) on the temporal plane, to create a backdoor for mankind to regain entrance into the spiritual Kingdom of God. The new condition is that to pay-back this debt (shortfall) those that will pass through that door must become Christlike (born-again Christians). This 'Christianinty' unfortunately is not as most people (Christians, Muslins, Budhist, etc) of today understand it. The spiritual Christian has no religious demarcation. Anyone who quilifies can enter through this spiritual gateway back into Eden (Spiritual Heaven) and eat the promised fruit of life eternal.

Sorry that this forum may not be proper to fully understand this concept, but you can liken it to a can that broke down and needs a new battery to jumpstart it. Thereafter the old battery of car must be restored to newness, if the breakdown is not to be repeated! This is the meaning of Resurrection - The shedding of the blood is to avail those in need of it to get a new life.

Christ gave the blood and the flesh to His inner Disciples first before making it publicly available. He also order us to do this ritual often in memory of Him!
Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by Nobody: 10:33am On Apr 16, 2017
jeeqaa7:
So I am Glad.. Extremely happy.. He did this for me. He cleared my doubt. He broke protocols . He stunned us all
He died. Asin died completely
Not for His Crime. Not for something He did but something I did. He set the standard for Love.
Against all odds
He rose.. He is back and this time .
He comes Triumphant.
Hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah.
I am a witness and I feel different.
I feel Good
Christ is Risen.


Like if you are a Christian
Share if you are a Muslim
you see xtian contradicting themselves cos they're not guided
Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by Zenithpeak(m): 10:34am On Apr 16, 2017
hopefulLandlord:


that explains why the Jews don't believe all these nonsense and have more 8 Muslims for every one Christian but a Nigerian read from a book and quickly concluded that the Jews (who lived with Jesus at the time) are wrong; a book handed to them by their slavemasters



Read the book of Romans 11 may be you'll see the reason behind why the Jews were like that.

Know this truth for sure, all the Jews will be saved.

The only opportunity you have to be saved is now.

That the Jews did not believe him will not be an excuse for you.

God have different salvation plan for the Jews and the rest of the world.

Pls leave the Jews out of own way of salvation.
Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by Nobody: 10:35am On Apr 16, 2017
irynterri:
before the coming of Christ,the Jews used a lamb on which the they placed all their sins and the lamb was sacrificed, God sent his only beloved son to be the lamb on which the sins of the whole world (not only Jews)were to be laid and killed hence abolishing the need to sacrifice lambs, you can call it human sacrifice but I call it Divine sacrifice,if not for his death, only the Jews will be worshipping Yahweh but now all humans irrespective of your tribe, colour and race are able to participate in the divine worship of the one true God
is Jesus a Jew or Christian
I hope you know there's a difference between Jew's and xtians
Jew's are not xtians they don't celebrate Christmas
Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by jfleece(m): 10:35am On Apr 16, 2017
Lots of atheist atheist in the house.. ;DLots of atheist atheist in the house..
Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by iwadobo: 10:35am On Apr 16, 2017
sonmvayina:
A sacrifice to end all sacrifice
..problem though, while will God, sacrifice his son to himself to appease himself, so that he can forgive his servants..



The man Jesus was neither God nor a son of God but a mystic of some sort who was murdered by the Jews for his truthful disposition which they saw as a threat to thier tradition. His death didn't take any death or sins away. He died a physical death not spiritual death. If his death took death away, it would have been the physical death for only spiritual death can pay for spiritual death and physical death takes away physical death. All the balderdash were all said by Christ followers to give some credence to the claim that he was God. Christ prayed like you and I, to a supreme God whom he claimed sent him some message. Unto Thee I Grant

1 Like

Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by Adonis3: 10:37am On Apr 16, 2017
TheLordIsGr8:

Scripture declares
In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Heb. 9.22


LMAO... Is GOD bound by a law??


Yes, God knew he would raise him up, but do you honestly think of death as some kind of pleasant experience where you just sleep and you don't wake up? Think again my friend. Has death ever stared you in the face? Perhaps you should ask someone who has had such an experience.

And what makes it worse is the fact that Jesus had the power to not undergo such death.



Niggga listen, the ONLY reason I'm scared of death is because of the thought of NOT WAKING UP AGAIN.

If not, what's the difference between it and sleep?


Your kind of logic is exactly the reason the Apostle Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 1.23.

NIV: but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

NLT:So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it's all nonsense.

Oh please, the writer was only careful to defend whatever he was saying ahead of the criticism that he knew was sure to rise.. Just to give people like you something to say. Bitter truth.




#Adonis3HasSpoken
Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by kilo4sure: 10:41am On Apr 16, 2017
bamidelee:

is Jesus a Jew or Christian
I hope you know there's a difference between Jew's and xtians
Jew's are not xtians they don't celebrate Christmas
Lol, being a Christian, is it about celebrating Christmas? this is a new one.
Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by kevoh(m): 10:42am On Apr 16, 2017

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Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by Nobody: 10:42am On Apr 16, 2017
AnonyNymous:
Christians are yet to explain to me why God cannot just forgive without sacrifices (animal, or human)
don't mind them they call some people terrorists
I wonder why sins can't be forgiven before sins can be erased
another thing is xtian females wear skimpy clothes are they telling they're emulating the mother of their Lord.
Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by Nobody: 10:45am On Apr 16, 2017
my brother that's nairaland for you
the mods are not fair to Islam if a xtian insults Islam no ban for him/her. but if otherwise na quick ban
yeye dey smell
Re: Is The Crucifixion Not Synonymous To Human Sacrifice? by kevoh(m): 10:47am On Apr 16, 2017

grin grin grin

3 Likes

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