Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by Nobody: 7:26pm On Apr 21, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: Brother, Let's imagine that they were. But then it would be a mixture of a lot of denominations...not just Catholics. Why are you guys so cut-throat about Catholicism? Where's Jesus in you guys' approaches? |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by Ubenedictus(m): 7:27pm On Apr 21, 2017 |
shadeyinka:Hehehe, why were the apostles killed and yet u are moving around freely? |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by Ubenedictus(m): 7:29pm On Apr 21, 2017 |
PastorAIO:yeah, all is good, it seems d more NL has new members the more the older ones become scarce. |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by shadeyinka(m): 7:31pm On Apr 21, 2017 |
italo: Were the questions difficult to answer? Or so simple its exposing the bitter truth? ...Acts 11:20-21, In Antioch ,it is recorded that the disciples of Jesus Christ were first called Get the point? |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by shadeyinka(m): 7:34pm On Apr 21, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: The Apostles were killed because they claimed to be |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by DoctorAlien(m): 8:42pm On Apr 21, 2017 |
Halley not only documents the changes Constantine made, but the period of time under Emperor Theodosius just after him: “Emperor Theodosius (a.d. 378-398), made Christianity the State Religion of the Roman Empire, and made Church Membership Compulsory....This Forced Conversion filled the Churches with Unregenerate People. Not only so, Theodosius undertook the Forcible Suppression of all other Religions, and Prohibited Idol Worship. Under his decrees, Heathen Temples were torn down....Up to this time Conversion was Voluntary, a Genuine Change in Heart and Life. But now the Military Spirit of Imperial Rome had entered the Church. The Church had Conquered the Roman Empire. But in reality the Roman Empire had Conquered the Church, by Making the Church over into the Image of the Roman Empire.... www.ramsheadpress.com/messiah/ch10.html 1 Like |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by DoctorAlien(m): 8:43pm On Apr 21, 2017 |
[It] had become a Political Organization in the Spirit and Pattern of Imperial Rome....The Imperial [Roman Catholic] Church of the 4th and 5th centuries had become an entirely different institution from the persecuted [true believers’] church of the first three centuries....Ministers became Priests. The term ‘priest’ was not applied to Christian ministers before a.d. 200. It was borrowed from the Jewish system, and from the example of heathen priesthood. Leo I (440-61) prohibited priests from marrying, and Celibacy of priests became a law of the Roman Church....The Goths, Vandals and Huns who overthrew the Roman Empire accepted Christianity; but to a large extent their conversion was nominal and this further filled the Church with Pagan practices.” 1 Like |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by DoctorAlien(m): 8:45pm On Apr 21, 2017 |
The devout and knowledgeable Henry Halley further notes: “The Church was founded, not as an institution of Authority to Force the Name and Teaching of Christ upon the world, but only as a Witness-Bearing institution to Christ, to hold Him before the people. Christ [Messiah] Himself, not the Church, is the Transforming Power in Human Life. But the Church [which] was founded in the Roman Empire, and gradually developed [for itself] a form of Government like the Political World in which it existed, become a vast Autocratic organization, ruled from the top.” www.ramsheadpress.com/messiah/ch10.html 1 Like |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by DoctorAlien(m): 8:58pm On Apr 21, 2017 |
The Old Testament was written by God's inspired prophets, patriarchs, psalmists, judges, and kings. It was faithfully copied and preserved by Jewish scribes. Modern Protestant Bibles have the same content as the Hebrew Bible. The New Testament was written by Christian apostles. None of them were Catholics, because there was no Roman Catholic Church at the time. This was over two centuries before Constantine's "conversion". The early Church did not have the New Testament as we know it. Rather, individuals and local congregations had portions of it. They would have one or more of the Gospels, some of the letters which Apostles had written, and perhaps the Book of Acts or the Book of Revelation. 1 Like |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by DoctorAlien(m): 8:59pm On Apr 21, 2017 |
Why weren't all of these books collected in one place? Look at what the books themselves say. Individual apostles wrote them for specific audiences. For example, the Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts were written for Theophilus. (Luke 1:3; Acts 1:1) Most of the Epistles were written to specific churches or to specific individuals. (Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 2 Corinthians 1:1; Galatians 1:2; Ephesians 1:1; Philippians 1:1; Colossians 1:2; 1 Thessalonians 1:1; 2 Thessalonians 1:1; 1 Timothy 1:2; 2 Timothy 1:2; Titus 1:4; Philemon 1:1; 3 John 1:1) 1 Like |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by DoctorAlien(m): 9:00pm On Apr 21, 2017 |
The early Christians expected that Jesus would return for His Church at any moment. As a result, they didn't see the need for long-term planning for future generations. Furthermore, Christians were persecuted by the Romans. When your life is in constant danger, it is difficult to collect writings which are scattered all over the Roman Empire. So it took time to collect all of these writings, decide which ones were authoritative Scripture, and make complete sets of them. By the time of Origen (185-254 A.D.), there was general agreement about most of the New Testament. However, there was disagreement as to whether the following six epistles should be part of the New Testament canon: Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, 3 John, and Jude. This was sixty years before Constantine's "conversion" and the formation of the Roman Catholic Church in 314 A.D. By 367 A.D., all of the books of the New Testament were acknowledged as being authoritative Scripture. 1 Like |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by DoctorAlien(m): 9:01pm On Apr 21, 2017 |
The canon of the New Testament was not formed by the decision of any Church council. Rather, the Council of Carthage (397 A.D.) listed as canonical "only those books that were generally regarded by the consensus of use as properly a canon". [Note 18] In other words, it didn't create the canon. Rather, it formally identified the canon that already existed. So the Catholic Church did not give us the Bible. However, it did help confirm the authenticity of six New Testament epistles. Also, Catholic monks faithfully preserved the Bible by copying it. The Catholic Church changed the Bible. In 1548, at the Council of Trent, it added the Apocrypha to the Bible. The apocryphal books contain passages which are used to justify some Catholic doctrines, such as praying for the dead. 1 Like |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by shadeyinka(m): 10:14pm On Apr 21, 2017 |
DoctorAlien: Thanks for the information. Both Catholics and Non Catholics can make enlightened judgements. 1 Like |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by PastorAIO: 10:20pm On Apr 21, 2017 |
shadeyinka: Having thanked him, are you now prepared to go and verify the information or do you plan to just swallow it hook link and sinker? 2 Likes |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by shadeyinka(m): 10:31pm On Apr 21, 2017 |
PastorAIO: Those information are not new to me but he took the pains to present them: for that I praise him. Of course such information are available if you take the pains to find them. To prevent a case of bias in judgement, catholics can present a counter argument and the case of one party screaming .... "Two legs good, Four legs bad!" Will be put to rest |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by PastorAIO: 10:40pm On Apr 21, 2017 |
shadeyinka: Cool. I presume that when you got the information previously you did due diligence to confirm. |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by shadeyinka(m): 10:45pm On Apr 21, 2017 |
PastorAIO: I assume you are Catholic, therefore if your information is contrary spill it out |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by italo: 5:25am On Apr 22, 2017 |
shadeyinka: The term Catholic was first used to describe the Christian Church in the early 2nd century to emphasize its universal scope. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_(term) Zimbabwe was in initially called Rhodesia. Mumbai was initially call Bombay. Get the point? 2 Likes |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by italo: 5:39am On Apr 22, 2017 |
MZLady39:Are you sure of what you're saying? Or you're just guessing like when you thought there are no rituals in Christianity but were proved wrong? MZLady39: Jesus is the truth. And we are telling you the truth. You should be asking the liars that manufactured an ex-nun just to perpertrate falsehood, that where is Jesus in their approach. You have no business calling Jesus if you cannot call out a lie. Till now, none of you has the integrity to call out the OP for quoting a non existent person. And you talk about Jesus? Anyway, I know pentecostal gospel is about prosperity, not holiness. Not surprised. 2 Likes |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by Nobody: 6:09am On Apr 22, 2017 |
Italo, Brother, Hi...i'm not in the best of moods right now..should be sleeping & not on here...anyhow I'm really trying to exercise patience with you. Don't know who you are but your tone is too abrasive for me. I really asked the brother I could half-way reason with (Ubenedictus)..not you. I surely hope you two are not 1 and the same  I wasn't proven wrong about the rituals. I just chose to cease & desist. I stand by what I said. I won't correct the OP..cause he's done nothing wrong. When/if he does, then i will wisely do so. I gave an "imaginary" (meaning fake or false) scenario cause i already believe that they weren't as I stated. You can learn a few things from the OP's wise & graceful handling of this thread. Call names, insult, have a temper tantrum & deflect all you want. The fact remains...you do not manifest the character of Christ....whom you claim to be defending. Brother...please surrender those faults to Christ. You need to work on your delivery  P.S. Don't know why you picked on the Pentacostals....  ? I guess you were assuming that I was one. Let's not go there please. I'm fighting against my flesh right now and really don't want to lose by unleashing it on you brother. I'm trying to grow in grace... |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by italo: 6:35am On Apr 22, 2017 |
DoctorAlien: 1. Who then created this canon that already existed? 2. You claim the Catholic Church changed the Bible by adding the 'Apocryphal' books in 1548. But those apocryphal books were listed in the 397AD Council of Carthage's Canon, which you claim was an identification of the canon that existed already. So which one is true...the Catholic Church changed the Bible on 1548...or Martin Luther manufactured his own bible for protestants by removing 7 books and criticizing the following books and minimizing their reputation: Hebrews, James, Jude, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, and the Revelation? @DoctorAlien & shadeyinka. PastorAIO. |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by italo: 7:05am On Apr 22, 2017 |
[font=Lucida Sans Unicode][/font] MZLady39:Me too. MZLady39:You are too dubious for me. MZLady39:Forget the person, reason with truth. MZLady39: So you still insist that baptism, communion, anointion of the sick etc are not rituals? You still believe rituals are onlywhen they cut someone's head to invoke money? Maybe you need to read the dictionary definition very slowly. MZLady39:So it is not wrong to say "Mary Ann Collins, an ex-nun said this," when such a person never existed? In order words it is not wrong to spread falsehood? Yet you wonder why Nigeria is a mess? MZLady39:Unlike you, I dont want to learn lies. Thank you. MZLady39:The same Christ who scattered the temple because he couldnt stand dubious people like you? The one who called the scribes and pharisees "white-washed tombs, hypocrites?" MZLady39:No. I know they are the biggest proponents of feel good gospel. No need to stand for truth or anything good. MZLady39: Ahah! "Grace." What did Pastor Biodun COZA say when he was about to commit adultery with Ese? "Let me show you another level of grace." My dear, you cant sin, or tolerate sin and grow in grace, no matter what your pastor tells you. 2 Likes |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by shadeyinka(m): 7:20am On Apr 22, 2017 |
italo: What I know is that 1. In terms of Catholic and Protestant churches, the catholic church is a several hundred years older. 2. The early church (of the time of the apostles up to about 200AD) the church didn't have any Papal resemblance. 3. Believers were simply called Christians (which used to be a derogatory name) The problem with the Catholics is their attempt of forcing their inception from peter the Apostle. Its like saying that Nigeria had existed since 300 BC. Yes, people were in the contemporary space called Nigeria but were they Nigerians? We know when Nigeria took effect...Lord Lugard was present. |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by newbornmacho(m): 7:26am On Apr 22, 2017 |
italo:Blasphemy |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by Mcowubaba: 7:28am On Apr 22, 2017 |
Early Christians weren't Catholics. The were just Christians, no denomination, no silly doctrine, no pope. What happened in the early church was Gathering of believers to worship and praise God. Jesus was not/never a Catholic.. In fact what Catholics do is not what Jesus Christ wants. Catholics are on their own, same with dozens of other denomination. Every one is practicing Christianity to suit their own desires, man made doctrine and idealogy Very few true Christians 3 Likes |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by shadeyinka(m): 7:37am On Apr 22, 2017 |
italo: My point is really not about canonisation of the scriptures but against seeing Catholicism as the "Original" church. Like I said before, the issue is like: The problem with the Catholics is their attempt of forcing the history of their inception fromThe problem with the Catholics is their attempt of forcing their inception from Peter the Apostle. Its like saying that Nigeria had existed since 300 BC. Catholic church started when a fusion of the State and the church commenced. Have you ever wondered why the Robes worn by the Catholic Priests didn't have any Jewish fashion style? It was influenced mainly by the Roman fashion.. No relic of how Pope Peter used to dress... Catholic started when the church of Christ had a large influx of government money |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:36am On Apr 22, 2017 |
shadeyinka:My dear, If you do not wish to discuss, you can simply skip my post. I dislike you snarky comments. To ur question, yes d early apostles did wear robes, and seminaries exist today for catholic d same way bible school exist for protestant, because it is more in tune with how education works today. If u are going to post ur snarky comments please skip this post. |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by RobinHez(m): 8:38am On Apr 22, 2017 |
In the beginning, we were simply referred to as "Christians" . . .centuries later, we are here arguing what denomination the early christians were... there is so much division that the enemy no longer needs external help to battle us. . . The AntiChrist would definitely be a 'christian' ...smh. |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:51am On Apr 22, 2017 |
I saw this post yesterday night but decided to reply today since clear eyes are better than foggy ones. MZLady39:this is were you are wrong! It seem you haven't even tried to study early christianity. There were no denominations, there was the church and then the heresies. Take for instance in d time of d apostles, you had the church and then d heresy of d judaisers, later heresy were the gnostic, arian etc. If u claim catholicism isn't the true church that means u blive one of d early heresy is d church. So tell me which heresy.... Why are you guys so cut-throat about Catholicism?this ur criticism is simply emotional not factual, i have handled every point with serenity while i guess christ will not hesitate to drive out d new money changers frm d temple. I haven't been 'cut throat'. |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:52am On Apr 22, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by blackbriar: 8:57am On Apr 22, 2017 |
The early christians were christians(although they were numerous xtian sects),but the church was catholic(Universal),a single community professing same faith. The term Roman catholic is a derogatory term used by protestants towards the latin church. The catholic church has 12 churches with the latin church(wat u called roman catholics) been the biggest. There are byzantine catholics,coptic catholics etc 1 Like |
| Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by italo: 8:58am On Apr 22, 2017 |
shadeyinka: Not just several hundred years older. The Catholic Church started at Pentecost. It is one true Church. shadeyinka: The List of Popes St. Peter (32-67) St. Linus (67-76) St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88) St. Clement I (88-97) St. Evaristus (97-105) St. Alexander I (105-115) St. Sixtus I (115-125) Also called Xystus I St. Telesphorus (125-136) St. Hyginus (136-140) St. Pius I (140-155) St. Anicetus (155-166) St. Soter (166-175) St. Eleutherius (175-189) St. Victor I (189-199) St. Zephyrinus (199-217) Read about all those men and stop displaying your ignorance so proudly in public. shadeyinka: So because believers were called Christians by unbelievers, it means the Church could not call itself "Catholic Church" a few years later. If followers of Christ can adopt a name given by enemies, why should it be impossible to you that they adopt a name by themselves? shadeyinka: The geographical area called Nigeria today never existed as one people, one government, one country, before 1914. The Church that was later called "Catholic Church" is the same one that existed as one body of believers, with one leader (Peter), one heirarchy, one tradition, one faith, in the New Testament. If you insist that the Catholic origin is like Nigeria's, Nigeria came about 1914, tell us when the Catholic Church came about. |
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