To the learned Christians, pls tell me;
What happens to someone born in Iraq or Saudi, where the commonly acceptable religion is Islam. A preacher may have spoken to the person, but the preacher wasnt effective. Would this unbeliever be doomed to hell?

And To the diligent Muslim, I ask you; What happens to the Christian who has actually listened to your views and wasnt convinced, because there seemed to be some unnanswered questions. Would he end up in Hell?

There are 6 billion people on earth and counting. Each of the major religions has at least 1 billion followers.

Does it mean that if there is truly one true way to Heaven, then 4 billion people or more are guaranteed a place in hell?

What happens to someone born in Iraq or Saudi, where the commonly acceptable religion is Islam. A preacher may have spoken to the person, but the preacher wasnt effective. Would this unbeliever be doomed to hell?

According to Christianity, this person will go to hell. Answer: yes.

And To the diligent Muslim, I ask you; What happens to the Christian who has actually listened to your views and wasnt convinced, because there seemed to be some unnanswered questions. Would he end up in Hell?

According to Islam, this person is also doomed. Answer: yes.

There are 6 billion people on earth and counting. Each of the major religions has at least 1 billion followers.
Does it mean that if there is truly one true way to Heaven, then 4 billion people or more are guaranteed a place in hell?/

According to religions like Christianity and Islam, the answer is yes.

Here's the good news: the religions are all wrong, so there is no God, and there is no hell. No cause for alarm.

personally i believe the all these religions are all false cos it doesnt make any sense for just a few moslems or christians to end up inheavenwhile all the others end up in hell when there are billions that have never had about both religions. i know a christain that knew about islam as a religion through me he told me he doesnt even know that there was any such thing as islam we meet in Austria and i have meet a moslem that have never seen a christian before, the first time my friend told him he was a christain he was suprised and confessed he has never meet a christian before.this guy was from a village in jigawa state. so what will happen to all the billions of people that know nothing about christianity or islam there are billions of them willGod just put them in hell cos they know nothing about this religions? it aint their fault for not knowing cos they didnt put them selves in the places where those religions are existing. they two religions (christianity and islam) are all lies

Seun:

Here's the good news: the religions are all wrong, so there is no God, and there is no hell. No cause for alarm.

But seun, there is ample evidence that suggests that there is a God. A creator, A designer. A source from whom all things must have started.

The thread aims to identify what allowance the various religions have made for those people, who, for some reason or the other, decided not to become their follower.

Does the scripture "God is fair and just", suggest that people who were not convinced by the message (perhaps because the pastor or alfa they saw was a bit dull, or even crooked) will still get to heaven?

Lol.  Just wait till the "learned Christians" among us start quoting John 14:6.

I think this is going to be an interesting one!

And for the record, I believe Christians and Muslims serve the same God, but only have different views about Him.  (I deliberately decided not to post on that thread so they won't chop my head off ).  I really get sick of seeing we Christians monopolizing God everytime, and using John 14:6 to back up our stance.

And it keeps me wondering, so if John 14:6 is the final word on this issue, what happened to those that died before Christ?  Or has Grouppoint has pointed out, those who never got convinced, probably due to the ineffectiveness or dullness of the person passing the message?

Anyway, I believe God is there for everyone, but different people experience him differently!

So, oya my people!  . . What then happens to the unbelievers?

By the way, see a related topic: Christians: Can a Non-Christian Go to Heaven?

I don't believe the doctrine for most Christians stipulate that any none Christian will go to hell

The Catholic Church's doctrine is that [b]good works[/b]will get you to heaven

Some of the Protestant churches also share a similar doctrine

goodguy:


And for the record, I believe Christians and Muslims serve the same God, but only have different views about Him. 

Many of our fellow Christians would have a hard time believing that, though Ismael was also a son Abraham, who is very important in Islam.

@ 4play

Many, many Christians believe the Notion, that they are the only people fit for heaven. Not even Jewish people, the chosen people

did someone say 6 billion people living on earth? what happens to d many billions who have departed? and what about all d people before the time of Jesus or Mohammed? is judgement day going to be selective judgement or judgement based on a general law? i really get confused about d religion thing. sure there is a creator but where is His face

Good question my sister, what happens to our fore forefathers who did not know Christianity or Islam?

if u were to say that only Christians will go to heaven.That suggests that heaven will be full of white people given that Christianity only became mainstream in Africa just recently .

While it may be understandable for a white person to be pushing that line of thought,it is incredibly irrational for Aricans to believe that.

It will mean that all our ancestors are right now burning in hell fire

Under Catholicsm,although Christ is the ultimate source of salvation,salvation is also available to non-believers who are invincibly ignorant i.e people who through no fault of their own have not accepted the Gospel

I like your arguments, 4 Play.  I will like to see a refutation though, from an opposing side.

@ davidylan

davidylan:

It is false to state with authority that the bible is not explicit in stating those who will make heaven or hell.
As i said earlier, the answers to your "questions" are answered explicitly in myriads of verses in the bible, all you need do is take the time to read it rather than arguing pointlessly on the forum.

Here are a few examples:

John 3: 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
- Your question will be valid if you claim ignorance of the only begotten Son of God.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned
- Those who are damned is explicitly stated here! Unless you can convince me that even muslims and buddhists undergo water baptism too!

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
- I wonder if this is not explicit enough!

1 John 5:
1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

If after all these, the difference is still not explicit enough then we might have course to question your supposed faith!

I am fully aware of all these verses, and that's why questions are being asked concerning them, as they do not seem to favour all of mankind.

Before I proceed with my arguments, I will like to know what you yourself think about this subject.  And while you're still preparing your words on that, take this for instance:

I am a new member on Nairaland.  I break a rule that I never even knew existed, and Seun still goes ahead to ban me knowing fully well that I was not aware of that rule.  In all honesty, tell me what you would think of Seun in that regard.  And don't give me the "Ignorance is not an excuse" crap.  That's one very big Bullshit that I will totally annul if I were in the position to do so.  To me, the human law is indeed an ass.

goodguy:

I am fully aware of all these verses,

It is not enough to be merely "fully aware" of these verses. The question is how do you apply them in the context of your "questions"?
It is for reasons such as this that this was written:
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

goodguy:

and that's why questions are being asked concerning them, as they do not seem to favour all of mankind.

Again: Acts 10: 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
- The message of salvation is open to ALL MANKIND, the decision to accept or reject is left to the individual.

goodguy:

Before I proceed with my arguments, I will like to know what you yourself think about this subject.

It is not what i think that matters but what God says in His word, i already supplied my answers in the quote you made from the other thread.

goodguy:

And while you're still preparing your words on that, take this for instance:

I am a new member on Nairaland. I break a rule that I never even knew existed, and Seun still goes ahead to ban me knowing fully well that I was not aware of that rule. In all honesty, tell me what you would think of Seun in that regard. And don't give me the "Ignorance is not an excuse" crap. That's one very big Bullshit that I will totally annul if I were in the position to do so. To me, the human law is indeed an ass.

This analogy will be of no use on the judgement day. Again pls read your bible, it will save you plenty of time asking "questions" that have been answered more than 2000yrs ago on the cross of calvary.

@Seun,

Seun:

Here's the good news: the religions are all wrong, so there is no God, and there is no hell. No cause for alarm.

Just simply tell us you're bored and kidding. How you establish your simplistic conclusion is comical at best.

@bindex,

bindex:

personally i believe the all these religions are all false because it doesnt make any sense for just a few moslems or christians to end up inheavenwhile all the others end up in hell when there are billions that have never had about both religions.

Broadly speaking, that includes whatever sort of religious affiliations you belong. What may not make sense in a religion you don't understand or haven't heard of, does not automatically make them all false until you have actually studied each and every one of them.


@goodguy,

goodguy:

I am a new member on Nairaland.  I break a rule that I never even knew existed, and Seun still goes ahead to ban me knowing fully well that I was not aware of that rule.  In all honesty, tell me what you would think of Seun in that regard.  And don't give me the "Ignorance is not an excuse" crap.  That's one very big Bullshit that I will totally annul if I were in the position to do so.  To me, the human law is indeed an ass.

Your analogy is deeply flawed. The first question would be: how does one become a member of any group/body, association or whatever? You cannot speak of becoming a "member" until YOU make a conscious effort and choice to become one. There are "rules" of signing on to becoming a member of Nairaland; and you can't get past the registration to then speak of membership.

Now, if after becoming a member of this Forum you then break a rule you were not aware of (e.g., "NO PERSONAL ATTACKS OR PUBLIC FIGHTS"; the administrator applies an appropriate measure that is only binding on members! Let me recall the first line of the rules of engagement for members only -

24 HOUR BANNING, PROBATION, ETC
Our basic punishments for members of the forum who violate these rules and/or are uncooperative include 24 hour banning, indefinite probation, 1 week banning, 2 week banning, 1 month banning, complete banning, public humiliation, and anything thing else that the dark mind of the site administrator can think of!  So it's better to leave the forum quietly than to break the rules.  Punishment is rare but is done with absolute resolution.

I'm sure you now catch the drift. I don't think the admin himself, when applying the measures against violation of rules, sets immediately to completely banning and publicly humiliating poor goodguy! You will receive a warning to be made aware of your action; and should you continue to violate the very rule you're warned against, then measures will be served you accordingly.

Now, let us suppose that after a long period of probation, you write off the admin's cautions as "one very big Bullshit" with a last line that it "is indeed an ass," I cannot guarantee what will be coming your way next - and you had better not mess with "the dark mind" of the site administrator!

There's certainly more to your analogy that could be shown for its weakness, goodguy. The point is that it fails right from its onset to clearly understand issues - especially what being a "member" entails.

They melt into the Sun.

David & Bari_kade

Thanks for your reponses.

@Bari_kade: My analogy may be flawed, but not deeply.

Actually, the type of membership I am trying to depict here with my analogy is the type that one just finds himself to be a part of. Now, I am referring to this World. We did not choose to become members of this world.

Different people are born in different places with different cultures, beliefs and religion. Every religion believes theirs is the only way. While I am not disputing the claims of Jesus Christ, I will like to know what really He meant in John 14:6. I just have this feeling that the way we have always interpreted the verse is not the way it should be.

Also, going by the undisputed arguments presented by 4 Play, it will be irrational to think that unless one is a Christian, such person cannot enter heaven. I gave an instance on the other thread, of a person born in Saudi Arabia where Islam is the predominant religion. Such person never goes beyond the shores of Saudi Arabia during his life time, and eventually dies as an ardent God-believing Muslim. Pray tell, will such person be condemned to hell for not being a Christian?

John 3:  3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

   4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

   5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That should be clear enough, any further "questions" should be directed to Jesus who made that statement and not to us!

@goodguy,

goodguy:

@Bari_kade: My analogy may be flawed, but not deeply.

Actually, the type of membership I am trying to depict here with my analogy is the type that one just finds himself to be a part of. Now, I am referring to this World. We did not choose to become members of this world.

Actually, the analogy is still quite flawed - and that deeply, too. As long as the discussion is centered on religion, one cannot speak of being a 'member' of this world as a free-lance traveller. Membership in terms of religious affiliations immediately crosses out your analogy.

goodguy:

Different people are born in different places with different cultures, beliefs and religion. Every religion believes theirs is the only way. While I am not disputing the claims of Jesus Christ, I will like to know what really He meant in John 14:6. I just have this feeling that the way we have always interpreted the verse is not the way it should be.

One would have hoped that since you called the shots on that verse, then perhaps you would have provided its meaning in other ways than as is clearly stated.

goodguy:

Also, going by the undisputed arguments presented by 4 Play, it will be irrational to think that unless one is a Christian, such person cannot enter heaven. I gave an instance on the other thread, of a person born in Saudi Arabia where Islam is the predominant religion. Such person never goes beyond the shores of Saudi Arabia during his life time, and eventually dies as an ardent God-believing Muslim. Pray tell, will such person be condemned to hell for not being a Christian?

The problem here is that so many of you chaps are trying to play 'god'. Whatever I offer here from the Bible may be outrightly rejected one and all - then what? Why would one bother to even state the obvious?

However, I'd oblige you some answers. God has dealt with man according to dispensations. To those who never heard of Jesus Christ before they passed on, the Bible says they're without excuse, because 'what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them' (Rom. 1:19). This is sometimes called the operation of the conscience, as ch. 2:15 makes clear that a man knows right from wrong deep in his conscience.

How is God going to judge those people? They will be judged according to their deeds - good or bad. Read Romans 2:7-11, which among other things listed that, "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile. . ."

As the passage makes clear, I believe it provides answers to the query about the fate of those who never heard the Gospel before passing on. Such men will be judged and acquited based on their deeds - whether good or bad, and based on their consciences.

However, since the commencement of the present dispensation, God is seeking to reconcile the world back to Himself through His Son, Jesus Christ. When someone hears the Gospel clearly preached to him, and he rejects it, the Bible removes all doubts as to the fate of such. This is quite a different thing from having never heard about Jesus Christ - and it simply spells "unbelief".

I'm still studying my Bible, but so far I haven't come across a single text that seems to assume that a person is an "unbeliever" out of having never heard anything about God or Christ. An un[/b]believer in Scripture is one who [b]rejects the message preached to him/her. There are several texts clearly highlighting the fate of the 'unbeliever' in Scripture, but two will suffice for now ~~

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him" - John 3:36.

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" - Mark 16:16. 

I'm not a syncretist trying to look for a middle course somewhere in Christ's words. He by Himself stated clearly what an unbeliever assumes for him-/herself in not believing His words. Like I said, this may outrightly rejected one and all; but it doesn't really change what He said.

@bari_kade,

Thanks for the clarification on the issue of 'those that died before Christ came to the world'.

bari_kade:

When someone hears the Gospel clearly preached to him, and he rejects it, the Bible removes all doubts as to the fate of such. This is quite a different thing from having never heard about Jesus Christ - and it simply spells "unbelief".

Now, this is what bothers me.  Someone 'hears' the Gospel, he's not convinced, not because he doesn't want to, but probably because it is antithetical to what he has been hearing from birth. It's difficult to do away with the religion/belief one has been stuck with from birth, you know?  Will such person be condemned to hell if he rejects the Gospel on that basis?  I can recall I said something on one thread concerning this, that it's one thing for one to know something as the truth and still reject it, and another for someone to be genuinely oblivious of the truth despite having 'heard' the Gospel.  Will this person still be faulted on this basis as well?

bari_kade:

I'm still studying my Bible, but so far I haven't come across a single text that seems to assume that a person is an "unbeliever" out of having never heard anything about God or Christ. An un[/b]believer in Scripture is one who [b]rejects the message preached to him/her. There are several texts clearly highlighting the fate of the 'unbeliever' in Scripture, but two will suffice for now ~~

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him" - John 3:36.

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" - Mark 16:16. 

I agree with you here.  But the Bible tells us no man comes to the Father except through Jesus -- and I guess that will include even those that never 'heard' anything -- that's if we're to apply the widely accepted interpretation of that verse.

But the way David has been responding with the Bible verses is more like -  "That is their own problem, whether they are ignorant or aware of the Gospel is not our own concern.  As far as they don't believe in Jesus, they are going straight to Hell!  That's what the Bible tells us.  Read it and stop asking stupid questions!"

So, I hope you see the cause of my insistence on the interpretation of John 14:6.

bari_kade:

I'm not a syncretist trying to look for a middle course somewhere in Christ's words. He by Himself stated clearly what an unbeliever assumes for him-/herself in not believing His words. Like I said, this may outrightly rejected one and all; but it doesn't really change what He said.

Well, personally, I believe an unbeliever is someone who outrightly rejects Jesus, despite knowing the truth.  Don't you think it will be unfair of God to punish someone who is absolutely ignorant/unconvinced about the Gospel?  Afterall, it was not his fault that he couldn't grasp the truth.  Note that every true Christian today still holds on to Christianity because of what they've seen and experienced.  But what happens to those that are yet to [or may never] see or experience anything that is supposed to spark off their belief at all?

@ goodguy,
yours indeed is a very interesting hypothesis. At this rate no one will be in hell at all, one look at the fury of hell and everyone might as well come up with the excuse of not being "fully convinced" about the message of salvation.
If you read the tone of the early apostles and even Jesus Christ in the new testament, it was not half and half. They were categorical in their statements not trying to give excuses. HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT IS CONDEMNED ALREADY. That soul does not need to die, the condemnation is already there.

Let's rephrase YOUR own scenario:
A Nigerian travels to Singapore and is ignorant of strict drug laws, he is arrested, not because he was not aware it was a crime but because in Nigeria you can still carry cocaine and get away with a slap on the wrist. It's difficult to do away with the atitude one has been stuck with from Nigeria, you know? Will such person be condemned to death if he traffics cocaine in Singapore on that basis? I can recall I said something on one thread concerning this, that it's one thing for one to know the law and still flout it, and another for someone to be genuinely oblivious of the law since he's never been to Singapore before. Will this person still be hanged on this basis as well?

goodguy:

Well, personally, I believe an unbeliever is someone who outrightly rejects Jesus, despite knowing the truth. Don't you think it will be unfair of God to punish someone who is absolutely ignorant/unconvinced about the Gospel? Afterall, it was not his fault that he couldn't grasp the truth. Note that every true Christian today still holds on to Christianity because of what they've seen and experienced. But what happens to those that are yet to [or may never] see or experience anything that is supposed to spark off their belief at all?

Here again we will try and rephrase your argument:

Well, personally, I believe a criminal is someone who outrightly flouts the law, despite knowing the truth. Don't you think it will be unfair of Singapore to hang someone who is absolutely ignorant/unconvinced about the law? Afterall, it was not his fault that he had never read or seen the Singaporean constitution. Note that every true Singaporean today still obeys the law because of what they've seen and experienced. But what happens to those that are yet to [or may never like foreigners] see or experience anything that is supposed to alert them about severe consequences of breaking Singaporean law?

Try and see if this your lame argument holds up in a Singaporean court of law not to talk of the white throne judgement.

Unfortunately, if you have heard the message of salvation and redemption to God through Jesus Christ and rejected it for whatever reason,  God will not be able to save you from the second death.

It is for this very reason that he sent his son to die.  To give us a pathway to salvation through the remission of inherent sin.

He gives us clear guidleness on what is required, spiritual re-birth, confession and baptism.

John 3: 2-8

, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."

In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'

The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

---------------------------------
Romans 10: 9-10
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Ephesians 2: 8-9

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

"Good people" will not enter into the Kingdom of God if they are not born again. Muslims if they are not converted will not enter into the Kingdon of heaven. 

Ignorance of truth does not make you exempt from the consequence. I believe the goodness of God makes it possible for each person to hear the good news of the gospel at least once in their lives, and we choose to either accept or reject him.

If you choose not to receive the free gift of salvation, then it is out of God's hands to save you.  You have practised free will.

Thanks for all your postings on this thread.

So what then happens to the unbeliever?
My understanding is that there are a few groups of unbelievers.
1. Those who heard the message, believed it, but the cares of the world led them astray.

2. Those who heard, but did not believe, because the message just did not sound right.(e.g. God was born of a virgin, was made man, died like a thief. etc).To many non-believers It can truly sound unbelievable.

3. Those who heard from incompetent or shady preachers. Hence Christianity was misrepresented.

4. Those who cannot read. Hence sceptical about a message from a third party.

5. Those who simply find it hard to believe that God can allow all the injustices to occur on His earth.

6. Those who feel that Religion has done more harm than good, hence have chosen to be as good as they can humanly be to their fellow man, and turn away from religious discussions of right or wrong.

davidylan:

At this rate no one will be in hell at all, one look at the fury of hell and everyone might as well come up with the excuse of not being "fully convinced" about the message of salvation.

Well, the good news is that no one will be able to give any excuses.  God will know those that were genuinely unconvinced, and will probably judge them in another way.

davidylan:

Let's rephrase YOUR own scenario:
A Nigerian travels to Singapore and is ignorant of strict drug laws, he is arrested, not because he was not aware it was a crime but because in Nigeria you can still carry cocaine and get away with a slap on the wrist. It's difficult to do away with the atitude one has been stuck with from Nigeria, you know? Will such person be condemned to death if he traffics cocaine in Singapore on that basis? I can recall I said something on one thread concerning this, that it's one thing for one to know the law and still flout it, and another for someone to be genuinely oblivious of the law since he's never been to Singapore before. Will this person still be hanged on this basis as well?

Your analogy here does not hold water, and here's why:

Every sane mature human knows that trafficking of drugs is a serious crime in any country, and that's why they usually smuggle it in.  For the Nigerian to be aware that it is a crime in his own country, he definitely can't claim ignorance of the same if he travels out to another country.  And as for attitude, it depends on the type of attitude one has been stuck with in the first place.  By the way, trafficking of drugs is not even an attitude in the first place.  Those that "grease palms" are also fully aware of the consequences if caught, and cannot claim ignorance on that basis, no matter how "stuck" they are with such acts.

Also, the Singaporean goverment is not All-knowing, and definitely not Omnibenevolent. Let's even assume that the Nigerian is truly unaware of the laws against drugs, or maybe he doesn't even know that the act is a crime itself.  There's absolutely no way the Singaporean government will forgive him if he pleads on that basis, since they are not omnibenevolent, because they do not know for sure if he's lying or not since they are not Omniscient.

Now, will this person be condemned to death on that basis?  Sure!  Reason? - Based on the fact that the Singaporean goverment comprises human beings that believe in that bullshit of a law that "Ignorance is not an excuse".  It's a good thing bari_kade has even cleared that one because for someone to travel to a country at all, one must have studied the rules and regulations guiding that country, and can definitely not claim ignorance of any sort, especially concerning crimes in that country, on that basis.

So you see, that analogy of yours is flawed.

davidylan:

Here again we will try and rephrase your argument:

Well, personally, I believe a criminal is someone who outrightly flouts the law, despite knowing the truth. Don't you think it will be unfair of Singapore to hang someone who is absolutely ignorant/unconvinced about the law? Afterall, it was not his fault that he had never read or seen the Singaporean constitution. Note that every true Singaporean today still obeys the law because of what they've seen and experienced. But what happens to those that are yet to [or may never like foreigners] see or experience anything that is supposed to alert them about severe consequences of breaking Singaporean law?

For the fact that he chose/decided to travel to another country, he cannot claim ignorance of that law, and whether he sees/experiences anything or not before travelling down there will not be an excuse.  This is not the case with an unbeliever since he never chose/decided to come to world by himself.  He just found himself here, 'heard' stuffs about God, and was not convinced due to some of the reasons highlighted by Grouppoint.

davidylan:

Try and see if this your lame argument holds up in a Singaporean court of law not to talk of the white throne judgement.

My lame argument will definitely not hold up in a Singaporean court because they are equally humans like yourself that will only see things the exact way you are seeing it presently.  God is different.  His ways are definitely not our ways, and his thoughts, definitely not our thoughts.  That's what makes Him God.

trini_girl:

Unfortunately, if you have heard the message of salvation and redemption to God through Jesus Christ and rejected it for whatever reason,  God will not be able to save you from the second death.

. . . . . . .

"Good people" will not enter into the Kingdom of God if they are not born again. Muslims if they are not converted will not enter into the Kingdon of heaven. 

Ignorance of truth does not make you exempt from the consequence. I believe the goodness of God makes it possible for each person to hear the good news of the gospel at least once in their lives, and we choose to either reject or deny him.

If you choose not to receive the free gift of salvation, then it is out of God's hands to save you. You have practised free will.

I have a problem with that emboldened part of your post.  Do you honestly think God will just allow some people to 'hear' the message of Salvation, and whatever follows after that - whether they are convinced or not - He just doesn't care?   He made us all, and whether anyone is genuinely convinced or not - only Him knows, and He definitely has a way He'll judge those ones.  I am sick of seeing us all act as the judge here, saying some people will go to hell if they don't believe 'what they hear' about Jesus.

That definition just doesn't sound right.

Here is a puzzle for you mr. goodguy. What is the essence of evangelism if those who dont believe and are nt convinced still go to heaven anyway?

Why did Christ make this statement, . . . he that believeth not is condemned already? Was that a statement of an uncaring individual?

People are confusing a fundamental principle of human law with that of divine law;"ignorance of the law is no excuse"

The rationale for that principle lies in the fact that had it been otherwise,everyone could claim ignorance and it would be very difficult to prove knowledge.

In divine law,ignorance carries greater potency,for God will be able to know the truly ignorant from the sufficiently knowledgeable

So the principle "ignorance of the law is no excuse"has no relevance in matters of salvation

goodguy:

I have a problem with that emboldened part of your post. Do you honestly think God will just allow some people to 'hear' the message of Salvation, and whatever follows after that - whether they are convinced or not - He just doesn't care? He made us all, and whether anyone is genuinely convinced or not - only Him knows, and He definitely has a way He'll judge those ones. I am sick of seeing us all act as the judge here, saying some people will go to hell if they don't believe 'what they hear' about Jesus.

That definition just doesn't sound right.

I think the problem you are having is that you seem to think a person needs to be "convinced" into being saved.

Salvation is not a matter of being convinced, it is a matter of ACCEPTANCE. One can only accept when they are open, willing and ready. The gospel is quite simple.

Once you are open to receive God will honour your sincerity. Sow the seed and move on. Let the Holy Spirit give the increase.

As christians we offer the message of the free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, we do not try to SELL salvation by repeatedly explaining to people why they should be saved, if their heart is hardened.

The disciples themselves had a mandate to dust their shoes off and leave places that did not receive the gospel.

That you choose to accept the gift or not is a matter of your free will.

If God didn't care about who accepts him or not, do you think he would have bothered to send his son to die so that we can have redemption and relationship with Him?

No one is judging we are simply stating the facts. As I outlined in the pre requistes for salvation above, being born again, confession with the mouth, and water baptism, if those who are not "outwardly convinced" (according to you) do not yield and accept Jesus Christ then the Bible is clear as to what their end shall be.

4 Play:

People are confusing a fundamental principle of human law with that of divine law;"ignorance of the law is no excuse"
The rationale for that principle lies in the fact that had it been otherwise,everyone could claim ignorance and it would be very difficult to prove knowledge.

Please note I made no mention of law, biblical or secular in relation to the ignorance of it being no excuse.

What I said was the ignorance of the TRUTH does not make you exempt from the consequence.

However, those who choose to live by the law will be judged by the law, and who choose to live under the new covenant of grace will be judged by same.

4 Play:

In divine law,ignorance carries greater potency,for God will be able to know the truly ignorant from the sufficiently knowledgeable

So the principle "ignorance of the law is no excuse"has no relevance in matters of salvation

Please show scriptural support for this statement?