What you have now is called honest "doubt". Without it you cannot really have faith in God.. Just keep questioning, and do your soul searching and you will find him... And moreover, the gain of serving God is his Kingdom and not financial wealth...

delishpot:
Organized religion is a scam

God is not a scam!

bizme:
It wasn't the Church service of today that made me decide.
It was rather several pieces of disappointment and dashed expectations that forced me to make up my mind today.

Following my conversion years ago, I had spent a substantial part of my youthful life in the service of God. No amount of discouragement from my Dad and peers would slow me down in the pursuit of the love and service of God my Father. At a point I had approached my parents that I was considering opting for pastoral school instead of University admission. I had at the time been offered an admission into one of the leading federal universities in the country. Eventually my dad's voice of reason prevailed and I went to University. In University, I lived and conducted myself as a man whose singular hope and passion was the pursuit of God, roving from villages to villages every week, preaching and pastoring village churches. Away from the demands of my studentship.

But in the real world, the popular promise that God always has my back has been no more than a sale's man's quip which is often far from the reality on ground. I have asked fellow Christians questions, but they have failed to provide me with answers that don't refer me back to the usual call to patience and perseverance. If I do not enjoy God's promises in the time of my youth, what then is the point? What is the point in repetitively making the same requests for years without answer from God?

I consulted widely, reading books and studying other peoples' experiences and I have come to this conclusion: that I am on my own in this world. That God probably finished His part when He created me; that the entirety of my fate and experience will hereafter depend on me and my societal factors. That all the praying and singing and clapping in the church are no more than a desperate attempt for most of us to believe in a God who has got no better job than bailing us out of our miseries...

Well, it has been years now and He hasn't bailed me out. My life, the experiences of it, has not been any better than that of those who have refused to acknowledge God or to serve Him. Henceforth, I'm going to turn my time and attention to more product things than church attendance. My woman isn't going to like this, but I feel like a fraud sitting there in Church today and refusing to say the prayers since all those I had said these past years don't seem to have been answered.

This is no feast for atheists. I don't have enough faith to be one. This is simply my step of courage to step outside profitless religion into personal effort to take my own matters into my own hands. And you don't have to agree with my conclusions, if you look at it carefully you will realize that I have no obligation to live my life based on others' experiences. Just mine.

Look, if God wants you to learn something, no matter where you run go, you will still face the same wahala. There is GOD. Not the way they paint it but there are powers that control this earth. I can tell you this; calm down, tell yourself there is a lesson the great creator wants you to learn, release yourself to the flow, be focused, do not fight for anything, you will see that you shall come out victorious. I believe that the most merciful energy on earth is a feminine energy. I know some would not like my saying that. But that is what I FEEL. You are not the first man to go through this, so keep faith and let mother nature guide your path.

Foxyn:
hahahahaha... if only you know the man you're talking to. A man that have read all the pages in the bible starting from Genesis to Revelations.

that was why I said I won't come into argument with you because you don't know what I know neither have you seen what I've seen.

if you talking about being defrauded by church leader(s) into making me believe what am not suppose to believe, then you're wrong

my pastor is the most perfect man of God I've seen in this life.

he's not rich like others but yet still, act the way he does

I'm talking about a pastor that is filled with the holy spirit

a pastor that doesn't need a penny to counsel you because he feels God's gift are to be made for free

a pastor that doesn't make use of the members tithe and offerings

a pastor that gives so much to the poor even when he doesn't have much


imagine a pastor that has his own church, but always decide to deposit the church tithes in another church... lol

my pastor is just awesome..

my problem is that God is not exactly how you guys paint him to be

even my pastor do say that "he can't defend his God. instead, he allow God to defend himself"


and it is what you are doing now

you are trying to cover up for God.. talking about what he's not

you don't know God more than me..

Go and read from the book of Genesis to revelations

then read the book of Solomon, book of moses and book of psalms

before you come and talk about God with me

for now, continue leaving in lies and deciets

check all that i have posted here on this thread, the first comment I made was that I don't defend God, but rather he is the one that will defend me.

Reading the bible from Genesis to Revelation doesn't make one a genius.
Book of Solomon, book of moses and book of psalms won't make you know God, even the people of Israel have not really come to the full knowledge of Go, that was why the rejected Christ.

Well, I don't have much to tell you, let God reveal himself to you.

Hope you watched Madrid match against Athletico ? lemme watch the highlight.

CHARLOE:

If only u no my story, my journey, 1st off, became born again in d 80s, sec skool, carry su 4 head dey preach everywhere, till my days in Ife when critical thinking kicked in.
My friend, (mean that like a bro) don't try to dodge d obvious; d inconsistencies, doubts (which is a good thing by d way), questions etc by jumping into erroneous conclusions. Except u don't no d meaning of d word fear.
Only u can help yourself n u can start by doing basic thinking, like; can d creator of d vast universe be pettyish (jealous, angry, deceptive, cunning etcetc)? Google is ur friend, Google history of Christianity, who wrote d bible, proof Jesus Christ existed etc
Only u can help yourself bro

OK bro. na your choice.
One love, stay out of trouble

azaino:

check all that i have posted here on this thread, the first comment I made was that I don't defend God, but rather he is the one that will defend me.

Reading the bible from Genesis to Revelation doesn't make one a genius.
Book of Solomon, book of moses and book of psalms won't make you know God even the people of Israel have not really come to the full knowledge of God, that was why the rejected Christ.

Well, I don't have much to tell you, let God reveal himself to you.

Hope you watched Madrid match against Athletico ? lemme watch the highlight.

lol @the_bolded
baba, you said me reading those books won't make me know God?
you don forget say na people wey sabi God pass for bible write those books?

so E mean say the book bin no make dem sabi God well abi?

or in the other way round you mean I shouldn't read what the men of God in the bible wrote?

or do you mean they wasted their time to write about evil?

for what need?
now these are the questions you should ask yourself

we have all been deceived

once you realize this, you will understand that we are more than a normal being

we are gods ourselves

but una religion no allow make boys shine eyes

not to talk of that book called the bible

Jesus said that if our faith is small as that of the mustard seed that we can move a mountain

baba, I had so much faith that I went on 6:00am - 6:00pm without drinking even water just because I thought my faith was enough to get me what I needed

but uptil now, that faith that made me fasted that long hasn't given me what I needed

or will you say the faith wasn't as big as a mustard seed?

okay, what about the one I fasted for complete 14days 6am - 12pm?

will you also say it wasn't big like a mustard seed to give me what I needed?

I even applied patience as written in Hebrews 10:36

still yet, nothing worked

Jesus said "ask and it shall be given "

baba I don't ask tire lol

ma no talk..


what I've come to discover now is that

God is not all of that we read in the bible

old testament will make you understand the real God

he was a blood tasty and a very jealous God

fast in anger

ma no go that side sha

Jesus came and changed all of that

but our bible does not say 100% truth about God

it was tempered with

that is why you won't see some verses in the new English translation while you will see it in KJV

humans had to edit it to make it sweet for people like you to embrace it with ease


you may ask yourself why the other books were left out

take that as an assignment

legendary16:


The reason could be the OP might be very close to whatever it is he seeks and this thought might just be another distraction to slowly take his mind off Christ. like I said something close to this thing happened to me. I thought I could handle my situation but I failed. here I am now thinking if God would accept me again cause things have really gone bad and the situation I thought I could handle has gone worse.

my advice to the OP is to focus on God Abeg !
you'll eventually regret that you left Christ.

Do you know this is exactly how chronic gamblers think?

frank317:

Do you know this is exactly how chronic gamblers think?

what do you mean sir ?

bizme:


This world has become a literal hell because of people like you who believe they know God so well and who want to defend Him. You have been locked, hopelessly so, by your progenitors in a dangerous idea of God... Unlike you, I actually went through Bible schools, read the Bible from cover to cover several times...at a point at least 2 to 4 times every year. I had done evangelism work in several fields, in several villages, even witnessing once to the king of a town and his chiefs... It is rather arrogant and ill-advised of you to brand someone like me as ignorant. My knowledge of Christianity, unlike many of you, isn't limited to just the Bible or what pastors tell me. I have extended my understanding to different religions and philosophies about this world and the God that created it. I have a sound understanding of Christianity by the early fathers, beyond what is chronicled in the book of Acts of the Apostle; I have a sound understanding of the historical development of Christianity, the reign of catholicism, the destruction of several thousands of people by catholism, the subsequent evil pact between the throne and altar in the pre-1700 years, exploiting the common man and holding sway over life and death for millions of people. This eventually provoked the French Revolution, the killing of the commander in charge of Bastille and the setting free of the seven 'political' prisoners.... The subsequent full-fledged revolution whereby Parisians stripped the king and the Church of France of its power over the masses, the first formation of the National Assembly that represented the voice of the people and the right of the individual, the parody and enthronement of young girls on an Altar of Reason in Notre Dame, and the reign of the regime of reason... And from France the fever spread to the rest of Europe, even though the European deviance to hegemony by the Church was no more than an echo of what transpired in New England in America... In short Christianity shaped Europe, destroyed lots and lots of people in Europe...

You see, unlike you I read and travel wide. I do not simply accept the faith passed down to me by my familial birth, but I needed to know everything there is to know about my religion. Europeans were better than us in the practice of Christianity, and yet from Maastricht and Amsterdam in Netherlands, to Aachen, Heidelberg, Cologne and Dusseldorf in Germany, to Paris, to Belgium I had seen empty Churches, houses of God which serve no more than tourist centers now. What happened to the members there? Well, the clergy took too much upon themselves in the defence of God.

God doesn't need you to defend Him. And I feel it is too ignorant and pompous of you to describe me as ignorant.

How much do you know . Have you been used to cast out devils or heal the sick before? . I Label you as ignorant because You read the Bible as a book but you don't know the author . The knowledge of God is not what you read . The knowledge of God is what you live by. If you were ever a christian . You are in a backsliden state. That's bad enough for you but when you try y to destroy the faith of innocent ones it's a demonic assignment

legendary16:


what do you mean sir ?

Do you ever wonder why people who believe in prayers or people who worship God can't back out? It's because there is no stipulated time to recieve blessing. The uncertainty of blessing time can make u an ardent worshiper or prayer warrior.

It's like a gambler who has to continue gambling until​ he gets paid. The fact that the gambler does not know when he would be rewarded will make him continue to gamble. He might think: 'who knows this might be the one that will reward me' so he is stuck.

This is exactly what u advised the op in ur post I responded.

What I described above is a problem of schedule of reinforcement in psychology.

The best way to make a child always obedient to you is not to let him know the time you will reinforce him for being obedient. The uncertainty of time of reward can make anyone be your slave forever.

Think about this.

frank317:


Do you ever wonder why people who believe in prayers or people who worship God can't back out? It's because there is no stipulated time to recieve blessing. The uncertainty of blessing time can make u an ardent worshiper or prayer warrior.

It's like a gambler who has to continue gambling until​ he gets paid. The fact that the gambler does not know when he would be rewarded will make him continue to gamble. He might think: 'who knows this might be the one that will reward me' so he is stuck.

This is exactly what u advised the op in ur post I responded.

What I described above is a problem of schedule of reinforcement in psychology.

The best way to make a child always obedient to you is not to let him know the time you will reinforce him for being obedient. The uncertainty of time of reward can make anyone be your slave forever.

Think about this.

this is for gullible people parading themselves as Christians......going to church because they seek a physical reward.......tell them that their reward is in heaven .....but they must die first to transform into an entity that can receive that reward.

A christian services is to humanity.....when you are relevant to human beings that is when you are relevant to God

petra1:


How much do you know . Have you been used to cast out devils or heal the sick before? . I Label you as ignorant because You read the Bible as a book but you don't know the author . The knowledge of God is not what you read . The knowledge of God is what you live by. If you were ever a christian . You are in a backsliden state. That's bad enough for you but when you try y to destroy the faith of innocent ones it's a demonic assignment

Ahahahahaha....How come it's only in Nigeria (and Africa) that devils are so rife?! How you guys thing, is negatively amazing.

But no, your fear has nothing to do with other people's faith, but you're afraid your source of income (duping gullible peoples through religion) is being threatened. The very same thing that happened when Paul visited Ephesus and the Demetrius the silversmith for the goddess Diana mobilized the crowd to attack Paul...because Paul was such a threat to his source of income.

You're afraid, and you should be. With the spread of knowledge and information comes your dethronement, all of you that profit and hope to profit by being priests of God.

Let it be known to you that the God of the Bible is not the God that you serve. Your god is your belly and your perdition is near. Even an slowpoke would find no difficulty in realizing that the God of the Acts of the Apostle (the first experience of Christianity) is not the one you claim to believe in and follow...thou brood of liars, deceiving and being deceived, a common darkness happening to you all... you worshipper of naira and kobo.

bizme:

the God of the Acts of the Apostle (the first experience of Christianity) is not the one you claim to believe in and follow.

hello Sir... you said you've read far.. can u expatiate on this?... I'm currently doing a research on a closely related subject... your input would be highly appreciated.... if possible, with links... thanks

Wilgrea7:


hello Sir... you said you've read far.. can u expatiate on this?... I'm currently doing a research on a closely related subject... your input would be highly appreciated.... if possible, with links... thanks

Yes I can...could. But I'm not going to do so here, at least not yet.

I haven't gone that far and someone was already accusing me of having backslidden.

But what I have come to realize (and yes as human I have a high capacity to be wrong) is that the utilitarian God, the Jesus Christ in the African Churches and in our treacherously skewed interpretation of the Bible is not the same God and Jesus Christ of the Bible.

urheme:





this is for gullible people parading themselves as Christians......going to church because they seek a physical reward.......tell them that their reward is in heaven .....but they must die first to transform into an entity that can receive that reward.

A christian services is to humanity.....when you are relevant to human beings that is when you are relevant to God

Unfortunately 90% of Christians seek physical rewards. I don't blame them though... Every one wants to have a better life... Everyone wants good health, better job. Everyone would prefer to have enough and not remain hungry.

You would really be hypocritical if you say your Christian life has nothing to do with physical reward. Infact, God in the Bible expect you to desire physical reward that's why he promise to give you more than bread when u ask and he promised to bless you and give you long life.

Now the remaining 10% who actually are​
Christians just for humanity sake are just like that. These people will remain humanitarians even if they were atheists or Muslims or pagans.

Given this natural desire to be physically rewarded... People who pray and worship God while expecting one good thing or the other from him are hooked.

bizme:


Yes I can...could. But I'm not going to do so here, at least not yet.

I haven't gone that far and someone was already accusing me of having backslidden.

But what I have come to realize (and yes as human I have a high capacity to be wrong) is that the utilitarian God, the Jesus Christ in the African Churches and in our treacherously skewed interpretation of the Bible is not the same God and Jesus Christ of the Bible.

God and Jesus Christ of the Bible are just what they are. they are a set of Jewish deities and that is why our parents who worship these strange deities will always mix things up in trying to adapt a foreign belief.

bizme:


Yes I can...could. But I'm not going to do so here, at least not yet.

I haven't gone that far and someone was already accusing me of having backslidden.

its nothing new... here in Nigeria, questioning your belief automatically turns you into an atheist(for nairalanders) or the Antichrist (for typical Nigerians)... please feel free to mention me whenever you want to share the info

But what I have come to realize (and yes as human I have a high capacity to be wrong) is that the utilitarian God, the Jesus Christ in the African Churches and in our treacherously skewed interpretation of the Bible is not the same God and Jesus Christ of the Bible.

yes.. i highly agree.. sometimes i even feel there's more to the life of Jesus than what we have in the bible.. but that's a story for another day.. again.. feel free to mention me whenever you decide to share your knowledge... cheers

frank317:


Do you ever wonder why people who believe in prayers or people who worship God can't back out? It's because there is no stipulated time to recieve blessing. The uncertainty of blessing time can make u an ardent worshiper or prayer warrior.

It's like a gambler who has to continue gambling until​ he gets paid. The fact that the gambler does not know when he would be rewarded will make him continue to gamble. He might think: 'who knows this might be the one that will reward me' so he is stuck.

This is exactly what u advised the op in ur post I responded.

What I described above is a problem of schedule of reinforcement in psychology.

The best way to make a child always obedient to you is not to let him know the time you will reinforce him for being obedient. The uncertainty of time of reward can make anyone be your slave forever.

Think about this.

Pls sir how can I rch you ??

Quitter don't win and winners don't quit. Jesus is still the only way to God and answer to the world today. I wonder how you will defend your decision when you stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

You failed not because of your commitment to God. You don't have any investment in your life that translates into wealth.

legendary16:


Pls sir how can I rch you ??

xtfranks005@gmail.com

Ken4Christ:
Quitter don't win and winners don't quit. Jesus is still the only way to God and answer to the world today. I wonder how you will defend your decision when you stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

You failed not because of your commitment to God. You don't have any investment in your life that translates into wealth.

Thank you bigot.

Did I tell you money is my problem?
You failed because you are too quick to jump to conclusions.

Lol someone took d red pill...welcome to d real world...

Ishilove:
This is what happens when you don't handle your foundation. This life is very deep and mysterious.

Meaning ?

frank317:


Do you ever wonder why people who believe in prayers or people who worship God can't back out? It's because there is no stipulated time to recieve blessing. The uncertainty of blessing time can make u an ardent worshiper or prayer warrior.

It's like a gambler who has to continue gambling until​ he gets paid. The fact that the gambler does not know when he would be rewarded will make him continue to gamble. He might think: 'who knows this might be the one that will reward me' so he is stuck.

This is exactly what u advised the op in ur post I responded.

What I described above is a problem of schedule of reinforcement in psychology.

The best way to make a child always obedient to you is not to let him know the time you will reinforce him for being obedient. The uncertainty of time of reward can make anyone be your slave forever.

Think about this.

Superb.

I have missed Religion section

macof:
I have missed Religion section

Wow, where have u been? Nice to know u are okay

frank317:


Wow, where have u been? Nice to know u are okay

culture section

I hope more people have seen the fraud of religion

macof:
culture section

I hope more people have seen the fraud of religion

Lol, this thread is an EVIDENCE

bizme:


Ahahahahaha....How come it's only in Nigeria (and Africa) that devils are so rife?! How you guys thing, is negatively amazing.

But no, your fear has nothing to do with other people's faith, but you're afraid your source of income (duping gullible peoples through religion) is being threatened. The very same thing that happened when Paul visited Ephesus and the Demetrius the silversmith for the goddess Diana mobilized the crowd to attack Paul...because Paul was such a threat to his source of income.

You're afraid, and you should be. With the spread of knowledge and information comes your dethronement, all of you that profit and hope to profit by being priests of God.

Let it be known to you that the God of the Bible is not the God that you serve. Your god is your belly and your perdition is near. Even an slowpoke would find no difficulty in realizing that the God of the Acts of the Apostle (the first experience of Christianity) is not the one you claim to believe in and follow...thou brood of liars, deceiving and being deceived, a common darkness happening to you all... you worshipper of naira and kobo.

Just answer the question and don't try a distraction from point by shifting attention. Demons are not connected to African demons are cast out all over the world . It just showed how little you know.

Ken4Christ:
Quitter don't win and winners don't quit. Jesus is still the only way to God and answer to the world today. I wonder how you will defend your decision when you stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

You failed not because of your commitment to God. You don't have any investment in your life that translates into wealth.

SUPERB!

bizme:
It wasn't the Church service of today that made me decide.
It was rather several pieces of disappointment and dashed expectations that forced me to make up my mind today.

Following my conversion years ago, I had spent a substantial part of my youthful life in the service of God. No amount of discouragement from my Dad and peers would slow me down in the pursuit of the love and service of God my Father. At a point I had approached my parents that I was considering opting for pastoral school instead of University admission. I had at the time been offered an admission into one of the leading federal universities in the country. Eventually my dad's voice of reason prevailed and I went to University. In University, I lived and conducted myself as a man whose singular hope and passion was the pursuit of God, roving from villages to villages every week, preaching and pastoring village churches. Away from the demands of my studentship.

But in the real world, the popular promise that God always has my back has been no more than a sale's man's quip which is often far from the reality on ground. I have asked fellow Christians questions, but they have failed to provide me with answers that don't refer me back to the usual call to patience and perseverance. If I do not enjoy God's promises in the time of my youth, what then is the point? What is the point in repetitively making the same requests for years without answer from God?

I consulted widely, reading books and studying other peoples' experiences and I have come to this conclusion: that I am on my own in this world. That God probably finished His part when He created me; that the entirety of my fate and experience will hereafter depend on me and my societal factors. That all the praying and singing and clapping in the church are no more than a desperate attempt for most of us to believe in a God who has got no better job than bailing us out of our miseries...

Well, it has been years now and He hasn't bailed me out. My life, the experiences of it, has not been any better than that of those who have refused to acknowledge God or to serve Him. Henceforth, I'm going to turn my time and attention to more product things than church attendance. My woman isn't going to like this, but I feel like a fraud sitting there in Church today and refusing to say the prayers since all those I had said these past years don't seem to have been answered.

This is no feast for atheists. I don't have enough faith to be one. This is simply my step of courage to step outside profitless religion into personal effort to take my own matters into my own hands. And you don't have to agree with my conclusions, if you look at it carefully you will realize that I have no obligation to live my life based on others' experiences. Just mine.

Do you have the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues?

If yes, how many minutes do you spend speaking in tongues daily?

If no, then you started on a faulty foundation.

God has already blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places, all you have to do is use faith to apply them to yourself?

An2elect2:
Oh the ignorance!!! The beginning part of 1Corinthians 10 is talking of how some of the Israelites lusted after evil things, were idolaters, fornicated and were slain by God in the wilderness. Paul wasn't saying not doing these things would save us (how could he contradict himself when salvation is by grace). He was saying they were pointers to how we ought to live as Christians. We who have been saved by grace have no business with such lives anymore as such things are opposed to the character and holiness of God. We are not to follow their ways or continue in sin else our salvation becomes questionable.

1 Corinthians 10:6-11
Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

What does Paul mean by [u] Wherefore let him that thinks he stands take heed lest he fall in vs 12? First It doesn't mean when we sin we lose our salvation. We can't lose something that is dependent on the grace of God. We were not granted salvation because we "stopped sinning" Salvation was given as a free gift with no conditions to be met by the sinner. Therefore he can't lose it on condition of sin.

Paul was saying let no man think he can't be tempted because he is in Christ. We are not beyond temptation and can still yield to our body of sin.

But here is the promise and assurance of the believer right in vs 13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above what that ye are able, but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that yet may be able to bear it

The Christian's life rests upon the faithfulness and promises of God not his weak will and sinful flesh. And since God cannot fail, we are assured of our salvation.




Scripture should interpret itself.
"Sin no more" is the tone of the law, our school master that points us to the saviour. It tells us what to do and not do but has no power to make us righteous or "sin no more"

Its only Christ that has this power. Hence, Christ was leading the man to himself because if that man must "sin no more" he would need only Christ to do that

True! Those who do the will of the Father are those who believe in Christ not their righteous will or self And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day John 6:40.

Isn't this enough reason for anyone to give up on self righteousness and embrace Christ alone? Today you keep the law, tomorrow you break it. The one you failed to keep would void the ones you kept. We have 613 laws, and the only way to keep the law perfectly is to not break any one at any point of your lifetime. (The Law comes as a whole. You break one=You break all)

Therefore you have been asked to turn away from evil but you can't. You have no power to do that. Your Saviour and power is Christ

You got your doctrines wrong sir! You have the cart before the horse!

Love you for this.

Which pastors do you listen to? (just curious)