SmartMugu:

Did you read all this from a different type of Bible? This appears to contradict everything I learnt in Sunday school when I was little.

That's why you need to read widely . You were young and everything had to be given to you in a perspicuous way .


SmartMugu : I know you are trying to be naive about everything to drive home a point .

adelee777:
''in d beginning God made the heaven and d earth''. The ''heaven'' being referred to hear encompasses d whole universe. Ie all d planets, galaxies etc. So God created all of dem.

heaven refers to all other planet... lol, who taught you to think like that?

KingEbukasBlog:


That's why you need to read widely . You were young and everything had to be given to you in a perspicuous way .


SmartMugu : I know you are trying to be naive about everything to drive home a point .

I'm trying to learn from everyone, thats why I started the topic. Thanks for your contribution so far.

SmartMugu:

I'm trying to learn from everyone, thats why I started the topic. Thanks for your contribution so far.

Oh no problem . Thank Christ .

Well if you have any other questions just ask

Don't forget , not everyone subscribes to the idea of creation stories in religious books but they still acknowledge the existence of the creator .

KingEbukasBlog:


Oh no problem . Thank Christ .

Well if you have any other questions just ask

Don't forget , not everyone subscribes to the idea of creation stories in religious books but they still acknowledge the existence of the creator .

Creator? With all the plenty design flaws?
The creator surely doesn't want us to live on earth if there is one.

CatfishBilly:

Creator? With all the plenty design flaws?
The creator surely doesn't want us to live on earth if there is one.

Oh wow.
Don't you think the problems were created by humans themselves and not the creator?

CatfishBilly:

Creator? With all the plenty design flaws?
The creator surely doesn't want us to live on earth if there is one.

Design flaws ? Oya go and create your own universe from absolute nothingness let's compare it to God's

According to Christian theism , God did not create an impeccable universe . The so-called design flaws are even beneficial . Like I told you the other day : when you lose , others gain - that's the cycle of life .

KingEbukasBlog:


Oh no problem . Thank Christ .

Well if you have any other questions just ask

Don't forget , not everyone subscribes to the idea of creation stories in religious books but they still acknowledge the existence of the creator .

Sure,I'd be glad to ask you questions, but could you please be kind enough to respond in simple English a poor person like me can understand? Some of your words make it seem like I'm chatting with Wole Soyinka and his likes altogether in a chatroom. I avoid people with that super-human grammatical ability when I don't have a dictionary handy. Better still, I understand pigeon English. I just don't like cracking my brain to understand simple sentences. Thank you sir

SmartMugu:

Sure,I'd be glad to ask you questions, but could you please be kind enough to respond in simple English a poor person like me can understand? Some of your words make it seem like I'm chatting with Wole Soyinka and his likes. I avoid them when I don't have a dictionary handy.

I'm sorry . No problem then

SmartMugu:

Sure,I'd be glad to ask you questions, but could you please be kind enough to respond in simple English a poor person like me can understand? Some of your words make it seem like I'm chatting with Wole Soyinka and his likes altogether in a chatroom. I avoid people with that super-human grammatical ability when I don't have a dictionary handy. Better still, I understand pigeon English. I just don't like cracking my brain to understand simple sentences. Thank you sir

KingEbukasBlog:


Design flaws ? Oya go and create your own universe from absolute nothingness let's compare it to God's

According to Christian theism , God did not create an impeccable universe . The so-called design flaws are even beneficial . Like I told you the other day : when you lose , others gain - that's the cycle of life .

SmartMugu:

Oh wow.
Don't you think the problems were created by humans themselves and not the creator?

Okay, I'll talk about humans.
Sure, beneficial design flaws, bla bla bla.
Let's look at Plasmodium, the causative agent of malaria.
It doesn't have any proven benefit except making humans sick and killing​ us.
Plasmodium Falciparum, the deadliest specie for humans, our close evolutionary cousins are surprisingly immune to it. He gave the immunity to apes and forgot to give it to us?
That's okay though, he "gave" us evolution. Now, humans evolved the S in the hemoglobin gene. But guess what? The S is a death sentence. To inherit 2 of them causes sickle cell disease (SS), we all know how that one turns out, to inherit one (AS) has been linked to chronic kidney diseases and splenic infarctions. But that's okay though, he is a great designer.
He created bacteria and gave them the ability to withstand anything thrown at it, but what did he give us? Nothing.
Okay, we developed antibiotics to fight the bacteria, what did he do? He have them genes to be able to become resistant to our antibiotics. You don't want to know how many people have died due to antibiotics resistance.
And we are supposed to be the apple of his eyes and whatnot.
What a great designer he is.

CatfishBilly:


Okay, I'll talk about humans.
Sure, beneficial design flaws, bla bla bla.
Let's look at Plasmodium, the causative agent of malaria.
It doesn't have any proven benefit except making humans sick and killing​ us.
Plasmodium Falciparum, the deadliest specie for humans, our close evolutionary cousins are surprisingly immune to it. He gave the immunity to apes and forgot to give it to us?
That's okay though, he "gave" us evolution. Now, humans evolved the S in the hemoglobin gene. But guess what? The S is a death sentence. To inherit 2 of them causes sickle cell disease (SS), we all know how that one turns out, to inherit one (AS) has been linked to chronic kidney diseases and splenic infarctions. But that's okay though, he is a great designer.
He created bacteria and gave them the ability to withstand anything thrown at it, but what did he give us? Nothing.
Okay, we developed antibiotics to fight the bacteria, what did he do? He have them genes to be able to become resistant to our antibiotics. You don't want to know how many people have died due to antibiotics resistance.
And we are supposed to be the apple of his eyes and whatnot.
What a great designer he is.

I still don't think the creator needs to be blamed for the points you mentioned. I still agree with folks that believe life is about survival of the fittest. That's why you and me can slaughter a chicken for lunch and a lion can devour both us for dinner. Same applies to micro-organisms like the bacteria you mentioned. They obviously derived something from making people sick, but our creator has nothing to do with what they're doing to other animals like us, like he has nothing to do with a chicken devouring a young and innocent earthworm,and same chicken ends up being cooked or fried by me and you.

In my opinion, It will be unfair to assume our creator made certain living things more perfect than us humans, and some of them can hurt us more than we can hurt them. We need to think about how many other species we hurt on a daily basis too. Since we are discussing bacteria, how many plants, mushrooms, animals do we humans kill everyday? Last I checked, humans consume more than other animals. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

SmartMugu:


I still don't think the creator needs to be blamed for the points you mentioned. I still agree with folks that believe life is about survival of the fittest. That's why you and me can slaughter a chicken for lunch and a lion can devour both us for dinner. Same applies to micro-organisms like the bacteria you mentioned. They obviously derived something from making people sick, but our creator has nothing to do with what they're doing to other animals like us, like he has nothing to do with a chicken devouring a young and innocent earthworm,and same chicken ends up being cooked or fried by me and you.

In my opinion, It will be unfair to assume our creator made certain living things more perfect than us humans, and some of them can hurt us more than we can hurt them. We need to think about how many other species we hurt on a daily basis too. Since we are discussing bacteria, how many plants, mushrooms, animals do we humans kill everyday? Last I checked, humans consume more than other animals. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are still not getting it. The creator put in place so much mechanisms for these organisms to thrive but refused to give same to us. His "chosen" ones
I'll go out on a limb and say that 95% of our antibiotics is gotten from bacteria. That is how defenseless we are.

SmartMugu:


I still don't think the creator needs to be blamed for the points you mentioned. I still agree with folks that believe life is about survival of the fittest. That's why you and me can slaughter a chicken for lunch and a lion can devour both us for dinner. Same applies to micro-organisms like the bacteria you mentioned. They obviously derived something from making people sick, but our creator has nothing to do with what they're doing to other animals like us, like he has nothing to do with a chicken devouring a young and innocent earthworm,and same chicken ends up being cooked or fried by me and you.

In my opinion, It will be unfair to assume our creator made certain living things more perfect than us humans, and some of them can hurt us more than we can hurt them. We need to think about how many other species we hurt on a daily basis too. Since we are discussing bacteria, how many plants, mushrooms, animals do we humans kill everyday? Last I checked, humans consume more than other animals. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The bacteria , plasmodium and co are just trying to survive, they do not mean to cause any harm.

CatfishBilly:

You are still not getting it. The creator put in place so much mechanisms for these organisms to thrive but refused to give same to us.
I'll go out on a limb and say that 95% of our antibiotics is gotten from bacteria. That is how defenseless we are.

How about we as humans just admitting we are not as smart as we think we are? What if our creator gave us all we needed to defend ourselves in herbs around us, and we are looking for solutions in the wrong places like chemicals in labs?

CatfishBilly:


Okay, I'll talk about humans.
Sure, beneficial design flaws, bla bla bla.
Let's look at Plasmodium, the causative agent of malaria.
It doesn't have any proven benefit except making humans sick and killing​ us.
Plasmodium Falciparum, the deadliest specie for humans, our close evolutionary cousins are surprisingly immune to it. He gave the immunity to apes and forgot to give it to us?

Is this even an argument ? You have a way more complex brain that has helped you develop the resistance against or cure for these disease. Even the study of pathogens has given us a much better understanding of microorganisms

That's okay though, he "gave" us evolution. Now, humans evolved the S in the hemoglobin gene. But guess what? The S is a death sentence. To inherit 2 of them causes sickle cell disease (SS), we all know how that one turns out, to inherit one (AS) has been linked to chronic kidney diseases and splenic infarctions. But that's okay though, he is a great designer.

Sickle cell disease was developed to fight against malaria .

He created bacteria and gave them the ability to withstand anything thrown at it, but what did he give us? Nothing.
Okay, we developed antibiotics to fight the bacteria, what did he do? He have them genes to be able to become resistant to our antibiotics. You don't want to know how many people have died due to antibiotics resistance.
And we are supposed to be the apple of his eyes and whatnot.
What a great designer he is.

Most of these diseases are just spin offs of the evolutionary processes . Who knows ? As humans evolve we can be naturally resistant too against these diseases . There is a perspective of creationism called special creationism whereby God created primordial ancestors and orchestrated diversity through evolution . And these design flaws can be corrected through natural selection . Again , some of the flaws which were once seen as flaws have turned out not to be flaws . We have now discovered their uses . As knowledge grows , the perception changes . Because we don't know yet why something seems off at the moment does not mean God did not do it - that's the Not-God argument [https://www.nairaland.com/3767066/criticism-atheist-arguments-introducing-not]

Raintaker:
The bacteria , plasmodium and co are just trying to survive, they do not mean to cause any harm.

Yup, like we survive on other animals and plants too, but we kill them first.

KingEbukasBlog:


Is this even an argument ? You have a way more complex brain that has helped you develop the resistance against or cure for these disease. Even the study of pathogens has given us a much better understanding of microorganisms

Animals also have brains to understand diseases and how to fight them.
Elephants have been shown to eat leaves containing oxytocics to aid in labour process.
Apes have been shown to eat leaves containing some natural ingredients to help one ailment or the other, it is not peculiar to humans.
They have the in-built immunity/mechanisms to fight against diseases while we have to develop new medications every few years to fight against the Infections cos he surprisingly gave them immunity against our works

Sickle cell disease was developed to fight against malaria .

Sickle cell disease was developed by who? (This is so gonna be interesting)

Most of these diseases are just spin offs of the evolutionary processes . Who knows ? As humans evolve we can be naturally resistant too against these diseases . There is a perspective of creationism called special creationism whereby God created primordial ancestors and orchestrated diversity through evolution . And these design flaws can be corrected through natural selection . Again , some of the flaws which were once seen as flaws have turned out not to be flaws . We have now discovered their uses . As knowledge grows , the perception changes . Because we don't know yet why something seems off at the moment does not mean God did not do it - that's the Not-God argument [https://www.nairaland.com/3767066/criticism-atheist-arguments-introducing-not]

Humans are evolving to be immune to these diseases at the detriment of their health. i.e sickle cell disease. But humans are not evolving to be immune to most bacterial/viral infection. Things as common as common cold and influenza still kill a lot of people yearly.
Please, which former design flaws has been demonstrated to be beneficial now?

KingEbukasBlog:


There are so many interpretations to the Genesis creation story .

1. Its an allegory : Did God really create everything in just 6 24-hour days ? . Theologians as early as the first century such as Jewish scholar Philo of Alexandria and Augustine of Hippo suggested that the creation story shouldn't be taken literally . There are so many allegorical views of the creation story . Theistic evolutionists (Christian evolutionists in this case) - people who believe God orchestrated evolution - also subscribe to this perspective .

2. It wasn't actually 24 hour days : Historians and scholars have revealed that "morning" and "evening" are used by the Hebrews to describe the beginning and end of long periods of time . Progressive creationists subscribe to this view : God created life and diversified it over eons - millions of years as science has revealed .

3. Earth was created again , for the second time : There is what is called the Gap Theory - there seems to be a some sort of gap between Genesis 1: 1 and Genesis 1:2 and creationists who subscribe to this view believe that earth(first earth) was created and then destroyed by "Lucifer's flood" . It tends to explain Satan's fall and then his involvement in the origin of sin . Gap Theorists believe that "man" for (Pre-Adamites) and other life forms were created in the first earth but were destroyed before life was created and diversified again in just 6 days.

4. The earth is not actually 4.5 billion years but God made it seem like it : I really don't understand this perspective because I haven't gone deep into it for (I've forgotten the name it was labelled) . But the gist is : God created the earth not too long ago but gave it the appearance of a really old earth .

There are so many others .

5. The story is a truckload of l bull

The chapter n verse cannot b translatd literally-1 words dat we use now were non existent during d period of d writin mankind has developed many new lexique over d ages. To cut long story short d word earth stands for material creation dat is all d planets in our solar system n oda galaxies it was(they were)subsequently created in d image of the spiritual realm(heaven)

felixomor:


Firstly.
Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God Made the Universe".... (GNT)
The Universe encompasses all planets and everything pertaining to space and matter.

Secondly, please OP have u seen any of these other planets you have mentioned with your eyes or someone told you? (Just asking)

Don't mind him, his trying to be wise while being foolish


The Hebrew word used there in Geneis 1:1
Shamayin to depict heaven(s)

Op take note

It's intriguing. Mere mortals, trying to understand 'God'.

SmartMugu:
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Genesis 1:1‭-‬2 KJV
http://bible.com/1/gen.1.1-2.KJV

We all know the earth isn't the only planet in the world, there are others. Since the bible only mentioned the earth, who then created the other planets? Satan?

Certain things just aren't adding up anymore.

Do aliens that live in some of these planets have their books they read since their planet weren't mentioned in the religious books we read here on earth? Their existence weren't even mentioned in our religious books.

Just trying to learn. I refused to be brainwashed with religion decades ago unless someone relates whatever he or she had been reading in some religious books with what we all know about life now.

Serious responses pls. No point quoting verses without any logical comparison to the earth we all live on.
Thanks.

CHAPTER IV
Section 1. The Seven double letters, Beth, Gimel, Daleth, Kaph, Peh, Resh,
and Tau have each two sounds associated with them. They are referred to
Life, Peace, Wisdom, Riches, Grace, Fertility and Power. The two sounds of
each letter are the hard and the soft--the aspirated and the softened. They
are called Double, because each letter presents a contrast or permutation;
thus Life and Death; Peace and War; Wisdom and Folly; Riches and Poverty;
Grace and Indignation; Fertility and Solitude; Power and Servitude.
2. These Seven Double Letters point out seven localities; Above, Below,
East, West, North, South, and the Palace of Holiness in the midst of them
sustaining all things.
3. These Seven Double Letters He designed, produced, and combined, and
formed with them the Planets of this World, the Days of the Week, and the
Gates of the soul (the orifices of perception) in Man. From these Seven He
bath produced the Seven Heavens, the Seven Earths, the Seven Sabbaths: for
this cause He has loved and blessed the number Seven more than all things
under Heaven (His Throne).
4. Two Letters produce two houses; three form six; four form twenty-four;
five form one hundred and twenty; six form seven hundred and twenty; (39)
seven form five thousand and forty; and beyond this their numbers increase
so that the mouth can hardly utter them, nor the ear hear the number of
them. So now, behold the Stars of our World, the Planets which are Seven;
the Sun, Venus, Mercury, Moon, Saturn, Jupiter and Mars. The Seven are also
the Seven Days of Creation; and the Seven Gateways of the Soul of Man--the
two eyes, the two ears, the mouth and the two nostrils. So with the Seven
are formed the seven heavens, (41) the seven earths, and the seven periods
of time; and so has He preferred the number Seven above all things under
His Heaven. (42)


i think you need to boost your IQ about Yaweh before posting gibberish.
Let me also burst your bubbles,OP be noted
“Earth is not a planet"
forget that shit scientists are brainwashing you with,their teachings are diluted.

Human vulnerrability or susceptibity to viral attack is due to our corrupted nature(by ourselves) we have fallen from a great height dat is y d bible i rom.8:19 talks abt d creature earnestly waitin 4 d manifestation of d sons of God(humans) our spirits lies lethargic in its robe(physical body) without d supply of spiritual radiation to d body man becomes a weakling.

Another Emeritus of parasitology in the making.......

Ignorant Christians will never stop to amaze me.

Just when you think you very heard it all, Nairaland doctors then surprise you....

"Sickle cell was developed to fight malaria......."

Hahn, lepasharon, make una come see new one above oo

It's never a must to comment on a thread...

Haba

Ubameyang:
Human vulnerrability or susceptibity to viral attack is due to our corrupted nature(by ourselves) we have fallen from a great height dat is y d bible i rom.8:19 talks abt d creature earnestly waitin 4 d manifestation of d sons of God(humans) our spirits lies lethargic in its robe(physical body) without d supply of spiritual radiation to d body man becomes a weakling.

A simple question will show the above is trash....

You said human vulnerability to viral attack (I'm rephrasing it to microorganisms) is as a result of human corrupt nature or whatsoever abi?

Now, what can you say abi the opportunistic micro biotas (aka opportunistic flora) that is created by the so called god?

Are they also as a result of human corrupt nature

Ubameyang:
Human vulnerrability or susceptibity to viral attack is due to our corrupted nature(by ourselves) we have fallen from a great height dat is y d bible i rom.8:19 talks abt d creature earnestly waitin 4 d manifestation of d sons of God(humans) our spirits lies lethargic in its robe(physical body) without d supply of spiritual radiation to d body man becomes a weakling.

So animals and plants and bacteria that are susceptible to microorganisms also sinned against your God too abi?

Like someone said they r jus trying to survive!i repeat if u r full of spiritual radiation their presence will cus u no harm. They serve a purpose which we r not aware of.

SmartMugu:

Thanks for your response. I have not seen any of these planets
I'm human just like you and live here on earth like I would assume you do, but I follow scientific findings. I once worked for a firm that was entirely into satellite communications (Echostar). They launched a satellite into space while I was still there, and we all saw the satellite imagery broadcasted from space. It was a huge milestone and they wanted every employee to see the entire process. We all watched the entire process. I saw it with our monitoring equipment, smart devices, and TVs at home on some special channels the employees had access to, but I wasnt in space with the satellite looking at the universe with my bare eyes. It wasnt even my job to monitor satellites, I was just watching everything like everyone else did, but was inquisitive about what the firm had a passion for.
I was with the company for about 3 years and left for something else. But they launched other satellites after I left. See some of their footages here on YouTube
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=echostar%20satellite%20launch&sm=1

Thanks for your honesty.
Since u already said you havent seen the planets.
Thats all I needed to know.

SmartMugu:

Something I'm pondering about is why the GNT version you mentioned said something different from KJV version. I'm sure you'll admit the earth is different from the universe. So, which version are we to believe?

This is already explained by rhektor above.
If u get a bible concordance, u will see the original words the kjv was translated from.
And also remember that no two languages can be translated exactly into each other.
Sometimes even "clouds" was translated as "heavens".

So as the English dictionary increased in size over the years, there were new words to describe ancient translations.

Ubameyang:
Like someone said they r jus trying to survive!i repeat if u r full of spiritual radiation their presence will cus u no harm. They serve a purpose which we r not aware of.

This comment of your confirms the fact;

The universe is not a product of intelligent design

Oh I didnt fully conclude.d presence of micro organism n their harmful effect on other lower lifeform i.e animals is due to nature not receiving or utilising certain products of spiritual radiation n again its mans fault to xplain will take too long i wish we r on voice chating forum perhaps i cud xpanciate. Just to add d trace element Lithium destroys all forms of microorganisms when in a water solution n do u know dat lithium is produced(or shud b) by d Medulla oblangata n d Thalamus but dis regions of d human brain currently functions way below its capacity