OtemAtum:
It is not as if there is no higher consciousness which people call God, but the problem here is that that higher consciousness isn't the one you are worshipping. If I may ask, what makes you fall in love with Yahweh? What good things can Yahweh do?

sonofthunder:

unfortunately, I'm not here to engage you, @ least not today. Stay blessed

ilynem:

Are you serious? So i uave been lied to all my life? what do I do now?

Xevioso:


Rejoice, treat others with the respect and dignity with which you wish them to treat you, have a happy life.

ilynem:

But...Jesus gave that exact same rule. Love your neighbors as you love yourself. Are you saying I should follow Jesus' teachings??

hopefulLandlord:


Jesus was NOT the first to give such a rule bro

ilynem:

Ha! Doesn't change the fact he gave the rule. And more people follow Jesus than they follow the other guy. But seriously, let me ask you a simple question. You are a bright man, no doubt. Do you think both rules actually mean the same thing?

ilynem:

But...Jesus gave that exact same rule. Love your neighbors as you love yourself. Are you saying I should follow Jesus' teachings??

Ochoiho:
When I hear people mocking my God, I pity them deeply, knowing that their time is fast running out and their end is terribly pathetic.

hopefulLandlord:


can you elucidate on what you mean by "both rules"?

Xevioso:


Follow the teaching, not the teacher; Saddam Hussein taught his kids to brush their teeth.

ilynem:

OK. Let me break it down for you. You want to tell me Confucius was the first to give the golden rule. Fine. Let me agree with u. But do you know that over four centuries had passed after the death of Confucius before his first biography was written? And you know how many sources we have of Confucius today? Three. For Jesus, we have 27. Yet many of you nairaland atheist will accept the existence of Confucius over that of Jesus.

Now to the golden rule. Let us assume Confucius was the one who came up with it. He said do unto others what you want others to do unto you. Jesus said same in Luke 6:31 and Matthew 7:12. But that isn't even the rule I gave in my post. The rule I gave is found in Mark 12: 31 and Matthew 22:39 which says, love thy neighbour as thyself. Now I ask again. Do you think these two rules mean the same thing?

Ochoiho:
When I hear people mocking my God, I pity them deeply, knowing that their time is fast running out and their end is terribly pathetic.

hopefulLandlord:

The part you don't get in that analogy is that it makes no different to me if various historical/legendary figures existed or not. Most certainly ancient history is not accurately recorded. It's hard enough to sort out truth from exaggeration in events in our own time that we have access to more information let alone events that (supposedly) happened millennia ago BUT I'm not going to have an existential crisis if it turns out that Julius Caesar/Confucius/Alexander the great never existed. I'd just shrug and go on about my day. But if there were proof that Jesus never existed you'd freak completely out.


they are basically the same thing!

here's the thing, these so-called wise words have a way of getting refined overtime and layering upon one another over the years and (usually) getting better and better as humans learn from trials and errors when it comes to all aspects of life

to prove this let's look at the timeline of the wise words

first ever documented version of it was the story if the eloquent peasant which dates between 2040 – 1650 BC with the words "Now this is the command: Do to the doer to make him do."

Confucius, Mozi and Laozi then gave their own version around 500BC

"Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself." — Confucius (500 BC)

"If people regarded other people's families in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own family to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself." — Mozi (400 BC)

"Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss." — Laozi (500 BC)

Greek Isocrates version is also pretty interesting

"Do not do to others that which angers you when they do it to you." – Isocrates (436–338 BC)

notice how each of these versions of the golden rule predates Jesus himself

let's stop the etymology here and look at the bible which you read very well I believe, if you read the bible you'll see that what Jesus said predated Jesus himself!

read Leviticus 19:18

"'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

take a look at the bolded very well

this shows that Jesus infact HAS NO GENUINE CLAIM TO THE GOLDEN RULE, it had been existing before Jesus was born and Jesus just repeated it

realmindz:


your Yahweh is a blood thirsty monster.

If dem born u well, insult my Yemoja and watch calamity befall you. Infact, make sure none of your lineage travels on water

hopefulLandlord:

The part you don't get in that analogy is that it makes no different to me if various historical/legendary figures existed or not. Most certainly ancient history is not accurately recorded. It's hard enough to sort out truth from exaggeration in events in our own time that we have access to more information let alone events that (supposedly) happened millennia ago BUT I'm not going to have an existential crisis if it turns out that Julius Caesar/Confucius/Alexander the great never existed. I'd just shrug and go on about my day. But if there were proof that Jesus never existed you'd freak completely out.


they are basically the same thing!

here's the thing, these so-called wise words have a way of getting refined overtime and layering upon one another over the years and (usually) getting better and better as humans learn from trials and errors when it comes to all aspects of life

to prove this let's look at the timeline of the wise words

first ever documented version of it was the story if the eloquent peasant which dates between 2040 – 1650 BC with the words "Now this is the command: Do to the doer to make him do."

Confucius, Mozi and Laozi then gave their own version around 500BC

"Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself." — Confucius (500 BC)

"If people regarded other people's families in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own family to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself." — Mozi (400 BC)

"Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss." — Laozi (500 BC)

Greek Isocrates version is also pretty interesting

"Do not do to others that which angers you when they do it to you." – Isocrates (436–338 BC)

notice how each of these versions of the golden rule predates Jesus himself

let's stop the etymology here and look at the bible which you read very well I believe, if you read the bible you'll see that what Jesus said predated Jesus himself!

read Leviticus 19:18

"'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

take a look at the bolded very well

this shows that Jesus infact HAS NO GENUINE CLAIM TO THE GOLDEN RULE, it had been existing before Jesus was born and Jesus just repeated it

ilynem:

Sir, you just shot yourself on the foot. Leviticus predates all the philosophers you mentioned. And as we believe Jesus to be God, we believe He gave that rule to Moses. So from the Christian standpoint, Jesus has the original claim to that rule.
Secondly, please correct me if I am wrong. But "Do unto others what you want others to do unto you" is centered Karma not love? I should do good to hopefullandlord so someone else will do good to me. I won't want to so evil to you for fear that someone will do the same for me.
But let us look at "Love thy neighbor as thyself". I believe, correct me if I am wrong, that this is centered around Love which Jesus came to preach and live. I won't want to hurt HopefulLandlord not because I am scared of someone else hurting me, but because I wouldn't do that to myself. That is the sacrificial love Jesus came to preach and show to us. And I think that is a little deeper.

realmindz:


it really got me thinking how this could be better explained for you to understand.

Pls try to enlarge your circle of reasoning and realise that the world is too large to revolve around your belief.
Look at life on a bigger picture, religion is an emotional bondage. The universe is too big for your religion

ilynem:

You see, that's your problem. Everything revolves around my God. You can't ask me to think outside my God, it's like asking me to remove my brain before thinking. No matter how large I enlarge my reasoning, it is still within the scope of my God.
You are right though. Religion is an emotional bondage. That's why Christianity is not a religion. While religion keeps you in all kinds of bondage, Christianity sets you free.

realmindz:


Like it or not, your christianity is insignificant to the universe, therefore it is a mere religion.

Let's take a look at the bigger picture, the universe is about 14 billion years old. Your religion is about 2000 years old. Pls what's the % of 2000 out of 14 billion. So tell me, if your religion was that important, why wasn't it established in the period of time the universe had been?

The did universe just 2000 years ago realised it needed Christianity/Islam?

The universe has no need for your religion neither does it care whether it exists or not, sorry bro.


btw, ignorance is bliss, so enjoy

ilynem:

I can't believe you typed this with a straight face. The universe is 14 billion years old, according to your evolution theory, humans came into existence some 2 million years ago. That's insignificant compared to 14 billion years of the world's existence. Do you mean to tell me that humans aren't important because of when they came into existence?
By the way, 14 billion years is nothing compared to the Beginning and the end which is God. Ignorance is Bliss my friend. Enjoy it.

realmindz:


It's pure arrogance to think the universe revolves around humans. Your age in the universe and the portion you occupy says a lot.


However, I am pleased that you can say human came into existence 2 million years ago as against the bible's claim of 6000 years

ilynem:

I said, according to your evolution theory. Giving you the benefit of the doubt that that nonsense is actually correct. I never said the universe revolves around humans. But from your argument, humans are insignificant in this universe. There are two different things. And oh! By the way, the universe revolves around God. Something cannot come out of nothing. It has never been scientifically proven! So someone somewhere created this universe and this universe revolves around Him. And He is God.

realmindz:



You for example may think the world revolve around you, your everyday life, the people you meet, your colleagues, the people who look up to you, friends and your family are all in your life circle and that's where your significance lies.
When you die, your closest ones feel your departure most, then distant friends, colleagues, neighbours etc depending on your relationships. A man in your neighborhood may feel your departure less important. At the bigger picture, a man in a village far away in China does not even know you exist.

That's the way humans exist, we live in our small world thinking we are the most important, when we occupy less than 0.0000......01% of the universe.

Same with your religion, if you think your Yahweh is the true god of the universe, then the supposed god of the universe sent his only begotten son to die in a small village in a very tiny insignificant portion of the universe after some 14 billion years of creation. To die for humanity? you are far too arrogant

ilynem:

Hmmmm. And you keep skipping around the Bush. Are humans insignificant in this universe or not. Yes or no?
Now let us talk about insignificance for a moment. You mentioned Jesus dying in an insignificant village. First, might I point out, Jesus didn't die for the universe (you keep mentioning the fact it is 14 billion years old), He died for humans. Let's talk about insignificance for a moment.
A British soldier Tandey saved a man's life in world war 1 at an insignificant spot in this big mighty world. That man was Hitler and and over 60million people were killed by his actions.
Muslims claim only an insignificant number of them are radicals and yet the mighty world shakes at the threat of Isis, The Taliban and all other Islamic groups including your Boko Haram.
Someone somewhere decided to have sex in an insignificant village in Afghanistan and guess who the child was? Bin Laden.
What point i'm I trying to make? Just cuz Jesus was born in a small village called Bethlehem doesn't negate the fact that he died for u and I. It doesn't change anything. Big things start small. And probably at an insignificant spot where no one is even paying attention.

Robynwelo1:


This made sense a lot. It is true that every little piece, every quantum is important and the causal effect is important whether large or small.
But this does not have to do with anything discussed here, you are just deviating. Christianity whether you like it or not, still remains just one part of the society and your 'God' still remains just one of countless gods. Everyone, I mean everyone holds their god to high esteem, everyone believing theirs is superior, does that make it true?
This is what is causing division in the society and I call it bullshit.
God( i mean your own) doesn't want to be tested yet he is testing his people. Why would he want to condemn those that do not believe in him regardless of if they are good people. Why doesn't he just reveal himself to everybody and stop the crisis? why does he let his people and other good people suffer? There are so many questions to be answered.
The bottom line is he doesn't exist. Also you have a really myopic mind to think the universe must have been created. Because we exist then someone must have caused it. LOL! why not SOME PEOPLE? Something? Well every other religion seems to think their god created them, maybe it's a bunch of gods that did the magic together and we are down here fighting... Jeez, what a book can cause!

I think your God should reveal himself to everyone and stop all this confusion. He seems to like a lot of drama.

OtemAtum:
And do you know how many people have been killed because of the fiction of Jesus birth written by Eusebius? It is more convenient to say that the fictitious hero in the books of Eusebius is the cause of billions of killings and atrocities which has happened in the world today, because in the name of this fictitious character Jesus did Eusebius, Constantine and many others kill millions of human beings they termed pagans. And still in the name of this fictitious jesus many kids have been tagged witches and killed. And many 419s exist today, using this same name of fictitious jesus to dupe people. One nairaland example is Samuel Chinedum Ekwueme Who by the name of this fictitious Jesus have duped many people and is still duping them till today.
It is a scam to say that a fictitious character died for your sin. Hey, you are more real than Jesus a mere fictional object. Believe in yourself and you are good to go.

ilynem:

You know, I am still struggling to understand anything you say.