Hairyrapunzel:
The bible specifically said those who have not been defiled by women and were virgins

I know the bible specifically said those who have not been defiled by women and were virgins

Now, the questions I'll like your honest and prompt responses from, are these:
1/ Who do think this woman is/women are?
2/ How did the woman/do the women defile the ''men''?
3a/ Are you saying the subjects mentioned in Revelation 14:4 are literal and/or physical virgins?
3b/ Are you saying the subjects mentioned in Revelation 14:4 are about males only?
(i.e. it is an exclusive males only clubs?)
4/ Are you used to the terms, the ''Moabite women'' spirit (i.e. ''Moabite women'' & the Church in Pergamum)
and the Jezebel spirit? (i.e. that woman Jezebel and the Church in Thyatira)
5/ Are you yet cognizant with how ''defiled by women'' and ''defiled by woman'' are interchangeably used in the bible?

Hairyrapunzel:
what translation of the bible do you use?

All available translations I can lay my hands on
plus large, varied and other accommodating resources used under guidance

Hairyrapunzel:
Revelation 14:3-4.
3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb

Hairyrapunzel:
So since the 144000 were undefiled by women and were virgins
So you are saying women could defile women in the bible?

Yes,
Read Revelation 2:14 and Revelation 2:20 to see the evidence

JMAN05:
The issue is about spiritual shepherd.

Physical(s) is/are often but a shadow of something spiritual

God is no respecter of persons
Anybody is permitted to feed the flock

JMAN05:
I don't see how the reference applies

You can knee-jerk or widen the goal post as much as you like
but the below is a reminder of your exact post that I gave that response to:
A pastor is a Shepherd, and women are not reckoned as such in the bible

JMAN05:
You seem to be dividing "over" between teach and authority

No bro, I used ''over'' for both Whenever you teach, you effectively are exercising authority over another
and influencing such with instruction

When God asked Adam about the command, he was told to comply with
Adam's response, effectively was, the woman God gave him, taught and exercised authority over him, to eat from the tree whose fruit he was commanded not to eat from

JMAN05:
This isn't the right way of understanding the verse

Yes it is sire,
and the right way of understanding the verse is to get rid of any myopic attitude bordering on being misogynistic or acting sexist

JMAN05:
Secondly, if I understand you, your point is that teaching as referred to in that verse refers to teaching falsehood over a man. While it would be wrong for a woman to teach falsehood

Thank you
so if a woman isnt teaching falsehood, what is the hullabaloo all about then?
Instead for the common good to encourage it, why stifle the gift and spirit?

JMAN05:
there is no way we could understand Paul's writing to imply such

Bro, Paul's writing is easy to understand
especially when kept in the back of the mind that, context is king

JMAN05:
If that were so, the command would have been that "women shouldn't exercise authority over the congregation"

Whether a man or a congregation makes no difference
Misleading a man is bad enough, talkless misleading a gathering (i.e. congregation)

JMAN05:
Limiting the counsel to men won't be plausible

Re-read the narrative again
It's over: ''a man'' and not about/over ''men''

JMAN05:
And such counsel would have been given to men too cos it won't be directed to women as if they are the only gender capable of teaching falsehood.

Ah, there is something called ''the Law of First Occurrence''
Paul's counsel here is centred around the first time this happened.
Paul, historically, went back to the beginning
The first occurence where a woman incorrectly taught or exercised authority over a man happened in Genesis 3:6

JMAN05:
We read : 8-12

8 So I desire that in every place the men carry on prayer, lifting up loyal hands, without anger and debates.
9 Likewise, the women should adorn themselves in appropriate dress, with modesty and soundness of mind, not with styles of hair braiding and gold or pearls or very expensive clothing,
10 but in the way that is proper for women professing devotion to God, namely, through good works.
11 Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness.
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but she is to remain silent."

Verse 8, shows the work men should perform in the congregation.
Verse 9, he says "likewise, the women should..."
That is a switch to another gender in assigning responsibility

Aye, like you always comply with literally ''lifting up holy hands'' when praying. Yeah?

JMAN05:
The advise is for a christian meeting, a church service.

Yes, that blueprint, his advices were for Ephesus and its saints

JMAN05:
It appears that some women in the first century were of the habit of challenging the authority of men during 'church service'.
No doubt that is why he said that this is what should happen without "anger and debates"

The "anger and debates" was pertaining to the men (i.e. 1 Timothy 2:8 )
and no where referenced the women (i.e. 1 Timothy 2:9-10)

JMAN05:
Such was exemplary women in the bible.
It shows that women do have some among them with good qualities.
Some of them do have teaching skills. They could give good advise.
These are not in dispute here, no

I know that when all's said and done, there always is a but
Where is the but? I am expecting your but
Did you too see the unconscious male prejudices in your remark

JMAN05:
The issue here is how a christian service should run. The men take the lead in prayer and in teaching the flock. This role is filled by the elders who act as shepherds. (1 Pet 5:2)

The issue here, is you seem to be aversed to women teaching men or a gathering of saints
and so digging in your heels hiding behind mutiple biblical verses

JMAN05:
While women can teach, the arrangement is not to say they can't,
but men reflect Gods glory and authority,
both in a xten home and in the congregation. 1 Cor 11:1, 7

There always is the famous but
and the petty legalism rationale
especially when being adhering to the letter rather than the spirit

JMAN05:
Priscilla is not said to have taught in a christian meeting

The absence of not said doesnt mean she didnt
if Priscilla were to live now, she would be teaching in a saints gathering
and teach wholesome lot more and better than most of today's male counterparts

JMAN05:
Don't understand your verb and noun pastor stuff.

Verb is a word or phrase that describes an action, condition or experience:
Noun is a word that refers to a person, place, thing

Jesus is a Pastor (e.g. noun)
Though saints pastors (e.g. verb) they arent called pastors (e.g noun)
How many times is pastor written /found in the NT?

MuttleyLaff:
I know the bible specifically said those who have not been defiled by women and were virgins

Now, the questions I'll like your honest and prompt responses from, are these:
1/ Who do think this woman is/women are?
2/ How did the woman/do the women defile the ''men''?
3a/ Are you saying the subjects mentioned in Revelation 14:4 are literal and/or physical virgins?
3b/ Are you saying the subjects mentioned in Revelation 14:4 are about males only?
(i.e. it is an exclusive males only clubs?)
4/ Are you used to the terms, the ''Moabite women'' spirit (i.e. ''Moabite women'' & the Church in Pergamum)
and the Jezebel spirit? (i.e. that woman Jezebel and the Church in Thyatira)
5/ Are you yet cognizant with how ''defiled by women'' and ''defiled by woman'' are interchangeably used in the bible?

All available translations I can lay my hands on
plus large, varied and other accommodating resources used under guidance



Yes,
Read Revelation 2:14 and Revelation 2:20 to see the evidence

Since jman05 has decided to take the scriptures literally I have decided to take the scriptures literally
144000 were undefiled by women and were virgins quote all verses as far as it doesn't mention 144000 its of no use

Jws say only 144000 will go to heaven amongst these are married women and married men that were in the religion prior to 1935

Bible says this 144000 are those who were undefiled by women and were virgins and also belonged to 12 tribes

The jws 144000 don't even have a tribe
Jman05 should come and justify their own doctrine as to why it is against what the Bible actually says then I will justify my own stance on having female preachers and pastors

If jman05 has decided to take the verses literally why can't I take verses literally

MuttleyLaff:
Physical(s) is/are often but a shadow of something spiritual

God is no respecter of persons
Anybody is permitted to feed the flock

You can knee-jerk or widen the goal post as much as you like
but the below is a reminder of your exact post that I gave that response to:
A pastor is a Shepherd, and women are not reckoned as such in the bible

No bro, I used ''over'' for both Whenever you teach, you effectively are exercising authority over another
and influencing such with instruction

When God asked Adam about the command, he was told to comply with
Adam's response, effectively was, the woman God gave him, taught and exercised authority over him, to eat from the tree whose fruit he was commanded not to eat from

Yes it is sire,
and the right way of understanding the verse is to get rid of any myopic attitude bordering on being misogynistic or acting sexist

Thank you
so if a woman isnt teaching falsehood, what is the hullabaloo all about then?
Instead for the common good to encourage it, why stifle the gift and spirit?

Bro, Paul's writing is easy to understand
especially when kept in the back of the mind that, context is king

Whether a man or a congregation makes no difference
Misleading a man is bad enough, talkless misleading a gathering (i.e. congregation)

Re-read the narrative again
It's over: ''a man'' and not about/over ''men''

Ah, there is something called ''the Law of First Occurrence''
Paul's counsel here is centred around the first time this happened.
Paul, historically, went back to the beginning
The first occurence where a woman incorrectly taught or exercised authority over a man happened in Genesis 3:6

Aye, like you always comply with literally ''lifting up holy hands'' when praying. Yeah?

Yes, that blueprint, his advices were for Ephesus and its saints

The "anger and debates" was pertaining to the men (i.e. 1 Timothy 2:8 )
and no where referenced the women (i.e. 1 Timothy 2:9-10)

I know that when all's said and done, there always is a but
Where is the but? I am expecting your but
Did you too see the unconscious male prejudices in your remark

The issue here, is you seem to be aversed to women teaching men or a gathering of saints
and so digging in your heels hiding behind mutiple biblical verses

There always is the famous but
and the petty legalism rationale
especially when being adhering to the letter rather than the spirit

The absence of not said doesnt mean she didnt
if Priscilla were to live now, she would be teaching in a saints gathering
and teach wholesome lot more and better than most of today's male counterparts

Verb is a word or phrase that describes an action, condition or experience:
Noun is a word that refers to a person, place, thing

Jesus is a Pastor (e.g. noun)
Though saints pastors (e.g. verb) they arent called pastors (e.g noun)
How many times is pastor written /found in the NT?

I have learnt a whole lot from you today
Jws don't allow women to teach in their gatherings or be in the writing department in bethel they quote certain parts of the Bible supporting their views but when those scriptures are looked at closely you see they misquote those verses

MuttleyLaff:
Physical(s) is/are often but a shadow of something spiritual

God is no respecter of persons
Anybody is permitted to feed the flock

I disagree. Anybody? How can that ever be proven?

1Pet 5:2

2 Shepherd the flock of God under your care, serving as overseers, not under compulsion, but willingly before God; not for love of dishonest gain, but eagerly"

Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

Verse 17 of acts 20 shows that Paul was addressing elders here. Now why were they made overseers? It says "to feed the church of God". Elders are the shepherds, elders are not composed of women.

That's what can be proven not anyone is allowed to feed.

No bro, I used ''over'' for both Whenever you teach, you effectively are exercising authority over another
and influencing such with instruction

When God asked Adam about the command, he was told to comply with
Adam's response, effectively was, the woman God gave him, taught and exercised authority over him, to eat from the tree whose fruit he was commanded not to eat from

That is not teaching.

Thank you
so if a woman isnt teaching falsehood, what is the hullabaloo all about then?
Instead for the common good to encourage it, why stifle the gift and spirit?

Bro, Paul's writing is easy to understand
especially when kept in the back of the mind that, context is king

Whether a man or a congregation makes no difference
Misleading a man is bad enough, talkless misleading a gathering (i.e. congregation)

No, you reply without taken the context into consideration. The portion discussed what men should do in verse 8, and later it came and stated that women shouldn't teach falsehood over a man according to you. If we follow such interpretation, then the restriction is to men alone, not women nor the congregation. Since the context is about men and women, and what women shouldnt over men, the counsel will be limited to men. How can you expect anything less from a reasonable person?

Ah, there is something called ''the Law of First Occurrence''
Paul's counsel here is centred around the first time this happened.
Paul, historically, went back to the beginning
The first occurence where a woman incorrectly taught or exercised authority over a man happened in Genesis 3:6

Paul never said or implied that Eve ever exercise authority over a Adam. He drew a principle that establish men as being created first which should teach anyone there need for men to occupy a headship role over a woman.

1tim 2:13-14
13 "For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and became a transgressor"
.....,...............................................

When you quote a post, quote the complete idea expressed. Detaching it too often would make the writeup unnecessarily long, even the response may be meaningless.

Yes, that blueprint, his advices were for Ephesus and its saints

And so? What does it change?

The "anger and debates" was pertaining to the men (i.e. 1 Timothy 2:8 )
and no where referenced the women (i.e. 1 Timothy 2:9-10)

OK.

I know that when all's said and done, there always is a but
Where is the but? I am expecting your but
Did you too see the unconscious male prejudices in your remark

Nope. Where?

The issue here, is you seem to be aversed to women teaching men or a gathering of saints
and so digging in your heels hiding behind mutiple biblical verses

There always is the famous but
and the petty legalism rationale
especially when being adhering to the letter rather than the spirit

I don't agree with you. You seem to be giving in to popular opinion as advanced in society - women right!, women emancipation. Gods arrangemwnt is the best, it isn't unfair for xten women who were created by God for a supportive role.

The absence of not said doesnt mean she didnt
if Priscilla were to live now, she would be teaching in a saints gathering
and teach wholesome lot more and better than most of today's male counterparts

No, don't look down on a woman's ability to teach. Some of them can teach more than some men. But men perform specific roles in Gods arrangement that women are not told to perform. God created women to offer complementary role that are still special. But for things to go decently and by arrangement, God has assign men the role to feed the sheep. I can't see any woman in the issue about circumcision in acts 15:3, 6. Does it mean that there were no women with experiences back then? Their were, but God didn't assign them such role.

Again, men are the heads of their families. Does it mean that no woman can ever manage a family, or be head of it? Never! Some women can do such work. But God has not assign that role for them. There must be a head, and God has chosen men for it and women to support them. God organises His things very well. 1cor 14:40.

Verb is a word or phrase that describes an action, condition or experience:
Noun is a word that refers to a person, place, thing

Jesus is a Pastor (e.g. noun)
Though saints pastors (e.g. verb) they arent called pastors (e.g noun)
How many times is pastor written /found in the NT?

That they aren't called pastors as a title does not mean that the word "pastor" for some saints are not noun. "Pastor" occurs as a noun in the NT.

I can count 18 times that the word translated pastor appeared.

luvmijeje:


The same 1st Cor 11:13-16 emphasis on verse 13 which says

13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?


Sir, explain the above verse.


By the way you didn't answer my questions. Ist Timothy 2:11-12 didn't mention prophesy or not. Rather in verse 13 which says

Then Adam was formed then Eve.

The above connote husband and wife relationship. So answer my questions in that context.

I didn't answer ur question? Have you started again with your lies?

I don't even understand what you are up against above. My response to you is so clear.

To understand verse 13, read on:
"
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering."

Women naturally are allowed to maintain long hair. Nature has endowed her with a covering amphsasizing the need for her to have such on when prophesying in the congregation.

Hairyrapunzel:
Since jman05 has decided to take the scriptures literally I have decided to take the scriptures literally

Floating boats is a prerogative

Hairyrapunzel:
144000 were undefiled by women and were virgins quote all verses as far as it doesn't mention 144000 its of no use

Jws say only 144000 will go to heaven amongst these are married women and married men that were in the religion prior to 1935

Bible says this 144000 are those who were undefiled by women and were virgins and also belonged to 12 tribes

After these things I saw a large crowd from every nation, tribe, people, and language. No one was able to count how many people there were.
They were standing in front of the throne and the lamb.
They were wearing white robes, holding palm branches in their hands
- Revelation 7-9

Why stop and park at Revelation 7-4, when following in hot pursuit, as seen above, is a self-explanatory Revelation 7-9

Hairyrapunzel:
The jws 144000 don't even have a tribe
Jman05 should come and justify their own doctrine as to why it is against what the Bible actually says then I will justify my own stance on having female preachers and pastors

Who's to blame, the game or the player?
A great player doesnt just stand back and play the way he's being coached.
He rises up to occasions and turn the game around on his own

Hairyrapunzel:
If jman05 has decided to take the verses literally why can't I take verses literally

Ooookay ooo

JMAN05:
I disagree. Anybody? How can that ever be proven?

1Pet 5:2
2 Shepherd the flock of God under your care, serving as overseers, not under compulsion, but willingly before God; not for love of dishonest gain, but eagerly"

Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

Verse 17 of acts 20 shows that Paul was addressing elders here. Now why were they made overseers? It says "to feed the church of God". Elders are the shepherds, elders are not composed of women.

That's what can be proven not anyone is allowed to feed

So in the absence of matured men the flock shouldnt be fed
During the absence of men, capable women shouldnt step up to the plate to feed the flock, hmm?

JMAN05:
That is not teaching

No?
So Eve didnt instruct Adam to eat take and eat the fruit then?
To whom was the authority of the garden handed to?
Who exercised their authority over Adam?
Who instructed Adam to take, have and eat the fruit?
Who taught Adam to eat the forbidden fruit?

JMAN05:
No, you reply without taken the context into consideration. The portion discussed what men should do in verse 8, and later it came and stated that women shouldn't teach falsehood over a man according to you. If we follow such interpretation, then the restriction is to men alone, not women nor the congregation. Since the context is about men and women, and what women shouldnt over men, the counsel will be limited to men. How can you expect anything less from a reasonable person?

Please, please, please, where do you read ''men''?
The context is about a singular ''man'' and not plural ''men''

JMAN05:
Paul never said or implied that Eve ever exercise authority over a Adam.
He drew a principle that establish men as being created first which should teach anyone there need for men to occupy a headship role over a woman.

1 Tim 2:13-14
13 "For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and became a transgressor"

PSML, yeah right. Like you've never that many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first

Anyway, no female, if teaching right & correctly is a threat to a headship role
Responsible headship's expectation is to step in and check all arising erroneous undertakings

1 Tim 2:14 is instructive, look at it very carefully.
Why wasnt Adam deceived? He already and before hand knew the right thing to do or not to do
Eve, on the other hand, was deceived after hearing the wrong thing,
transgressed the command, instructed and involved her husband to do what he was not supposed to do

JMAN05:
When you quote a post, quote the complete idea expressed.
Detaching it too often would make the writeup unnecessarily long, even the response may be meaningless.

It becomes necessary when debunking or counter responding to arrested portions of the quote

JMAN05:
Nope. Where?

NVM. Would be uncomfortable having a woman teaching good and right to a gathering
(e.g. maybe standing on podium evangelising and teaching in a market place)

JMAN05:
I don't agree with you. You seem to be giving in to popular opinion as advanced in society - women right!, women emancipation. Gods arrangemwnt is the best, it isn't unfair for xten women who were created by God for a supportive role.

PSML. Jesus was there before me
It was a woman's prompt that kick-started Jesus' public ministry

Reiterating, please go re-read John 4:4-30, pay attention to John 4:27-28, it's an eye-opener to an insight
Now do you really think that Jesus, in John 4:4-30, went to such great lengths and singled out the ''woman'' for her to internalise the impartation of knowledge she received

When Jesus' and Paul's are laid down side by side, it's not rocket science, whose example of the two needs to be followed

JMAN05:
No, I don't look down on a woman's ability to teach. Some of them can teach more than some men. But men perform specific roles in Gods arrangement that women are not told to perform. God created women to offer complementary role that are still special. But for things to go decently and by arrangement, God has assign men the role to feed the sheep. I can't see any woman in the issue about circumcision in Acts 15:3, 6. Does it mean that there were no women with experiences back then? Their were, but God didn't assign them such role.

No, it means back then was a patriarchal society

JMAN05:
Again, men are the heads of their families. Does it mean that no woman can ever manage a family, or be head of it? Never! Some women can do such work. But God has not assign that role for them. There must be a head, and God has chosen men for it and women to support them. God organises His things very well. 1cor 14:40.

If you really subscribe to the biblical notion that women are made to complement men, then are you saying God hasnt equipped women to complement men in areas of teaching/feeding the flock

JMAN05:
That they aren't called pastors as a title does not mean that the word "pastor" for some saints are not noun. "Pastor" occurs as a noun in the NT

When you cook for the family, you are cooking (i.e. you're not a cook)
Food for thought, there are 30 men and one lady survivor shipwrecked on a remote and deserted island.
Is the lady, a believer grounded in the undiluted word of God and armed with a bible permitted to preach, teach and feed the 30 non believer men?

JMAN05:
I can count 18 times that the word translated pastor appeared

Are you sure you counted 18?
18 in the new testament.?
Or are you interchanging shepherd with pastor?

JMAN05:


I didn't answer ur question? Have you started again with your lies?

I don't even understand what you are up against above. My response to you is so clear.

To understand verse 13, read on:
"
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering."

Women naturally are allowed to maintain long hair. Nature has endowed her with a covering amphsasizing the need for her to have such on when prophesying in the congregation.

Oga, hopefully with my few questions, your inner eyes have been opened. If you're not man enough to admit your folly openly, hopefully you will be a man enough to admit it in your closet.

I've said it before and I'm going to say it to you. God's is raising female ministers in this end time and no gate of hell can stop it. No rules of men can stop it.

Any man who dares stop the moves of the Holy Spirit will be crush.

MuttleyLaff:
Floating boats is a prerogative

After these things I saw a large crowd from every nation, tribe, people, and language. No one was able to count how many people there were.
They were standing in front of the throne and the lamb.
They were wearing white robes, holding palm branches in their hands
- Revelation 7-9

Why stop and park at Revelation 7-4, when following in hot pursuit, as seen above, is a self-explanatory Revelation 7-9

Who's to blame, the game or the player?
A great player doesnt just stand back and play the way he's being coached.
He rises up to occasions and turn the game around on his own

Ooookay ooo

I am pointing out one flaw in their doctrine. Jman05 says he follows the Bible why are there women among the 144000?

Then to jws that great crowd is on earth. That is the ones resurrecting on earth after Armageddon.

Jman05 should come and defend his doctrine

luvmijeje:


Oga, hopefully with my few questions, your inner eyes have been opened. If you're not man enough to admit your folly openly, hopefully you will be a man enough to admit it in your closet.

I've said it before and I'm going to say it to you. God's is raising female ministers in this end time and no gate of hell can stop it. No rules of men can stop it.

Any man who dares stop the moves of the Holy Spirit will be crush.

Stop stop stop blaspheming by calling the holy spirit. Do u want to perish in heresy? Or it could be that u are under a demonic influence. That is the only

1cor 14:34-38

34 let the women keep silent in the congregations, for it is not permitted for them to speak. Rather, let them be in subjection, as the Law also says. 35 If they want to learn something, let them ask their husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the congregation. 36 Was it from you that the word of God originated, or did it reach only as far as you? 37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or is gifted with the spirit, he must acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are the Lord’s commandment. 38 But if anyone disregards this, he will be disregarded.

The account says if you are gifted with the spirit, you will acknowledge this writing.

Therefore, If any thing is reviewing something different from this, that is a demon. You are threading into a very serious path, a sin which cannot be forgiving. Pleeeaaase stop involving the holy spirit into a falsehood. The account says that this is the Lords commandment, any one who go against it will be disregarded. Be warned! Don't think that this is a mere nairaland discussion.

If you wish to be disregarded, ignore what the Lord says are the place of women in the congregation. Its ur call.

MuttleyLaff:
So in the absence of matured men the flock shouldnt be fed
During the absence of men, capable women shouldnt step up to the plate to feed the flock, hmm?

1cor 11:1- end (please read). A woman can act on a delegated authority by body of elders who are shepherds. She could be giving an order to conduct a meeting when no capable BAPTISED male is available. When doing so, she MUST have a head covering.

No?
So Eve didnt instruct Adam to eat take and eat the fruit then?
To whom was the authority of the garden handed to?
Who exercised their authority over Adam?
Who instructed Adam to take, have and eat the fruit?
Who taught Adam to eat the forbidden fruit?

Gen 3:6 "...Afterward, she also gave some to her husband when he was with her, and he began eating it"

Please, please, please, where do you read ''men''?
The context is about a singular ''man'' and not plural ''men''

I said:

The portion discussed what men should do in verse 8

The context is about male and female. Gender is the issue here.

PSML, yeah right. Like you've never that many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first

Anyway, no female, if teaching right & correctly is a threat to a headship role
Responsible headship's expectation is to step in and check all arising erroneous undertakings

There are other areas where a woman can preach and teach, not in a church service. She shouldn't be presumptuous for that is a serious sin. She is fighting against Jesus himself. 1cor 14:37

1 Tim 2:14 is instructive, look at it very carefully.
Why wasnt Adam deceived? He already and before hand knew the right thing to do or not to do
Eve, on the other hand, was deceived after hearing the wrong thing,
transgressed the command, instructed and involved her husband to do what he was not supposed to do

Gen 3:6 discussed Adam and how he for what he ate. 1tim 2:14 is about the woman alone. Can't see ur point on teaching anywhere.

NVM. Would be uncomfortable having a woman teaching good and right to a gathering
(e.g. maybe standing on podium evangelising and teaching in a market place)

A woman can preach to a neutral gathering of unbelievers in a market place. Men and women are commanded to preach the Goodnews for disciple making. Matt 28:19,20.

If it is a church service to teach the flock of believers, she is not authorised to do so.

PSML. Jesus was there before me
It was a woman's prompt that kick-started Jesus' public ministry

Reiterating, please go re-read John 4:4-30, pay attention to John 4:27-28, it's an eye-opener to an insight
Now do you really think that Jesus, in John 4:4-30, went to such great lengths and singled out the ''woman'' for her to internalise the impartation of knowledge she received

When Jesus' and Paul's are laid down side by side, it's not rocket science, whose example of the two needs to be followed

Paul knew what Jesus did while on earth even more than we have to read in the scriptures. Secondly, he received revelations from Jesus and was guided in his missionary journey by Jesus. Acts 16:7. He imitated Jesus. 1cor 11:1. The issue of women's role, he stated that it was the Lord's commandment (1cor 14:37). In fact he stated that any who disregard it will be disregarded. Such serious!

No, it means back then was a patriarchal society

The rule over the church is from Christ, not patriarchs. Eph 5:23. And Paul says the commandment is Christ's.

If you really subscribe to the biblical notion that women are made to complement men, then are you saying God hasnt equipped women to complement men in areas of teaching/feeding the flock

Yap, God has not giving them the work of complementing men in areas of feeding the sheep. As such, they complement them in other areas.

When you cook for the family, you are cooking (i.e. you're not a cook)
Food for thought, there are 30 men and one lady survivor shipwrecked on a remote and deserted island.
Is the lady, a believer grounded in the undiluted word of God and armed with a bible permitted to preach, teach and feed the 30 non believer men?

Yap. As for evangelism, preaching. She can preach and teach non believers. But not the Lords sheep in a sacred congregation service.

Are you sure you counted 18?
18 in the new testament.?
Or are you interchanging shepherd with pastor?

I repeat:

I can count 18 times that the word translated pastor appeared.

luvmijeje:
Oga, hopefully with my few questions, your inner eyes have been opened.
If you're not man enough to admit your folly openly, hopefully you will be a man enough to admit it in your closet.

I've said it before and I'm going to say it to you.
God's is raising female ministers in this end time and no gate of hell can stop it.
No rules of men can stop it.

Any man who dares stop the moves of the Holy Spirit will be crush.

JMAN05:
Stop stop stop blaspheming by calling the holy spirit.
Do u want to perish in heresy?
Or it could be that u are under a demonic influence. That is the only

1 Cor 14:34-38

34 let the women keep silent in the congregations, for it is not permitted for them to speak. Rather, let them be in subjection, as the Law also says.
35 If they want to learn something, let them ask their husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the congregation.
36 Was it from you that the word of God originated, or did it reach only as far as you?
37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or is gifted with the spirit, he must acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are the Lord’s commandment.
38 But if anyone disregards this, he will be disregarded.

The account says if you are gifted with the spirit, you will acknowledge this writing.

Therefore, If any thing is reviewing something different from this, that is a demon. You are threading into a very serious path, a sin which cannot be forgiving. Pleeeaaase stop involving the holy spirit into a falsehood.
The account says that this is the Lords commandment, any one who go against it will be disregarded.
Be warned! Don't think that this is a mere nairaland discussion.

If you wish to be disregarded, ignore what the Lord says are the place of women in the congregation. Its ur call.

The Lord speaks; many, many women spread the good news
- Psalm 68:11

Nobi just now yansh don tay for back ooo. Hin tay nobi small
Hin tay long time sef before all dis end time tings,
wey God put hand inside for this business of raising godly, gifted female ministers
Priscilla sat heavyweight juggernaut Apollos down teaching him and explaining to him things he did not comprehend

Priscilla was ahead of her time
Today's women have not only come a long way
but have now also come off age
No one is GOING to deny a female to speak, especially if she's teaching good and correct

Gender is not the primary concern/issue in 1 Cor 14:34-38 or 1 Timothy 2:11-12
it was about refuting and keeping in check falsehood teaching (i.e. heresy) domineering wives were bandying about

JMAN05:
I repeat:

I can count 18 times that the word translated pastor appeared

Oya now, list them,
List them one after the other, supported with chapter, verse & Bible translation version
where you found pastor mentioned 18 times in the NT

MuttleyLaff:


The Lord speaks; many, many women spread the good news
- Psalm 68:11

Nobi just now yansh don tay for back ooo. Hin tay nobi small
Hin tay long time sef before all dis end time tings,
wet God put hand inside for this business of raising godly, gifted female ministers
Priscilla sat heavyweight juggernaut Apollos down teaching him and explaining to him things he did not comprehend

Priscilla was ahead of her time
Today's women have not only come a long way
but have now also come off age
No one is good to deny a female to speak, especially if she's teaching good and correct

Gender is not the primary concern/issue in 1 Cor 14:34-38 or 1 Timothy 2:11-12
it was about refuting and keeping in check falsehood teaching (i.e. heresy) domineering wives were bandying about

I see no support for ur claim in those verses. It is CLEARLY discussing male and female. But u have right to ur beliefs.

JMAN05:


Stop stop stop blaspheming by calling the holy spirit. Do u want to perish in heresy? Or it could be that u are under a demonic influence. That is the only

1cor 14:34-38

34 let the women keep silent in the congregations, for it is not permitted for them to speak. Rather, let them be in subjection, as the Law also says. 35 If they want to learn something, let them ask their husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the congregation. 36 Was it from you that the word of God originated, or did it reach only as far as you? 37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or is gifted with the spirit, he must acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are the Lord’s commandment. 38 But if anyone disregards this, he will be disregarded.

The account says if you are gifted with the spirit, you will acknowledge this writing.

Therefore, If any thing is reviewing something different from this, that is a demon. You are threading into a very serious path, a sin which cannot be forgiving. Pleeeaaase stop involving the holy spirit into a falsehood. The account says that this is the Lords commandment, any one who go against it will be disregarded. Be warned! Don't think that this is a mere nairaland discussion.

If you wish to be disregarded, ignore what the Lord says are the place of women in the congregation. Its ur call.

Resort to threats as usual when you see people don't share the same views with you. Smh
Why the aversion towards women preaching in churches?
You sound like a misogynist
Saying women can preach in churches is now heresy hmmm interesting
Who told you sins cannot be forgiven? Are you God? Or are you Jesus christ?

JMAN05:


I see no support for ur claim in those verses. It is CLEARLY discussing male and female. But u have right to ur beliefs.

Well are still waiting for the 18 passages where pastor is found in the bible

JMAN05:
I see no support for ur claim in those verses

The eyes are useless when the mind is blind
so I am not surprised you see no support for the obvious in those verses

JMAN05:
It is CLEARLY discussing male and female.

Of course, it is CLEARLY discussing male and female
Thank God, that, you CLEARLY, at least see it is discussing male and female.

JMAN05:
But u have right to ur beliefs

¹¹Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
¹²But I suffer not a woman to teach,
nor to usurp authority over the man but to be in silence.
¹³For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
¹⁴And Adam was not deceived,
but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
¹⁵Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing,
if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
1 Timothy 2:11-15

''I do not permit a woman to... '' is different from ''God doesnt permit a woman to...''
''Woman should not...'' is clearly different from ''woman must not...''
''Let the woman...'' is clearly different from ''Let the women...''

Who was this woman? Who was this man?

All the nouns and pronouns used, there in 1 Timothy 2:11-15, are in singulars (e.g. woman, man & she)
Also ''they'' is a singular pronoun
Evidentally, 1 Timothy 2:11-15 is, Pqul addressing a localised anonymous couple (i.e. unidentified husband & wife) issue
and far from the truth, is it oe Paul proposing a global ban on learned women from teaching privately or publicly

If right now, you still don't understand this, then as we live in hope....pray, maybe one day, you will.

As a side note,
I dont know the reason why Paul seems to hold Priscilla in a higher esteem than he does her husband (e.g. 2 Acts 18:18-19, Timothy 4:19 and Romans 16:3)
He even has a pet name for Priscilla.

Back on track, but you have right to your Men's Club, where women are expected to be seen and not heard

MuttleyLaff:


¹¹Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
¹²But I suffer not a woman to teach,
nor to usurp authority over the man but to be in silence.
¹³For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
¹⁴And Adam was not deceived,
but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
¹⁵Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing,
if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

''I do not permit a woman to... '' is different from ''God doesnt permit a woman to...''
''Woman should not...'' is clearly different from ''woman must not...''
''Let the woman...'' is clearly different from ''Let the women...''

Who was this woman? Who was this man?

All the nouns and pronouns used, there in 1 Timothy 2:11-15, are in singulars (e.g. woman, man & she)
Also ''they'' is a singular pronoun
Evidentally, 1 Timothy 2:11-15 is, Pqul addressing a localised anonymous couple (i.e. unidentified husband & wife) issue
and far from the truth, is it oe Paul proposing a global ban on learned women from teaching privately or publicly

If right now, you still don't understand this, then as we live in hope....pray, maybe one day, you will.

"They", singular pronoun? Yet you are praying I understand something as clear as it is written.

And what did verse 8 say? Man or men? Answer.

MuttleyLaff:
Oya now, list them,
List them one after the other, supported with chapter, verse & Bible translation version
where you found pastor mentioned 18 times in the NT

The word is poimen. It appeared in matt 9:36; 25:32; 26:31; mark 6:34; 14:27; Luke 2:8; 2:15; 2:18; 2:20 John 10:2, 11(×2),12,14,16 Eph 4:11 heb 13:20; 1Pet 2:25.

JMAN05:
"They", singular pronoun?
Yet you are praying I understand something as clear as it is written

¹¹Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
¹²But I suffer not a woman to teach,
nor to usurp authority over the man but to be in silence.
¹³For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
¹⁴And Adam was not deceived,
but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
¹⁵Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing,
if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
1 Timothy 2:11-15

If they (i.e. the anonymous husband & wife couple) continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
How many couples are in a ''husband & wife relationship''? One isnt it?
Well, that's one example from many, of how a singular pronoun (i.e. a ''singular they'') comes to be used

JMAN05:
And what did verse 8 say? Man or men? Answer.

Bro dont you see that Paul's advices/instructions were layered?
Where, centring around verse 8, it started with general and wide advices to men,
then moving on to verses 9-10, equal and applicable advices to women in general were given
before lastly in verses 11-15, drilling down to the anonymous husband & wife couple

JMAN05:
The word is poimen.

I didnt ask you about the word poimen
What I explicitly and specifically asked you about was the word, pastor
and where you claimed have found this explicit and exact pastor word mentioned 18 times in the NT

My suspicion was correct that you're conflating shepherd with pastor,
and that's why I asked you:
Or are you interchanging shepherd with pastor?

JMAN05:
It appeared in Matt 9:36; 25:32; 26:31; Mark 6:34; 14:27; Luke 2:8; 2:15; 2:18; 2:20 John 10:2, 11(×2),12,14,16 Eph 4:11 heb 13:20; 1Pet 2:25

Partially exempting Eph 4:11, glaringly there is no pastor word from this your list ooo

Eph 4:11 is the closest you'll ever have in finding/seeing the word ''pastor'' in the NT
and as it happens, that word pastor in Eph 4:11 sef, isnt in singular but is in plural
(i.e. pastor with an appending ''s'')

Who is your Shepherd? Remember Psalms 23?
Well, no one else but Jesus is the Shepherd (i.e. noun)

Feeding (i.e. verb) the flock isnt a licence to be called a pastor/shepherd
That title is reserved for Jesus, the True, One and Only Shepherd

It's similar to a parent administering medicine to an unwell child isnt a licence for the parent to be called a doctor
or cooking for the family isnt a licence to be called a chef

And Christ gave some, apostles;
and some, prophets; and some, evangelists;
and some, pastors and teachers;
- Ephesians 4:11

How is the flock fed? by Ephesians 4:11's the combo of pastors and teachers
Ephesians 4:11 is gender agnostic, its no respecter of person
Now you see why and on what basis a woman is made to feed the flock

I think it'll be a low-esteemed man finding/seeing a woman teaching good, right and correct in private/public, that will want to shut up her up and/or shut her down

JMAN05:


Again, you are ill-informed.

You know me too well that I have over 95% knowledge of JW theology. We didn't start debating religion recently. I ask you again, why is it convenient for JW to bash Christians (or what you guys call the Christendom) without having the same moral courage to bash Islam? And I challenge you once again, can you give me a single watchtower or Awake! publication without any Christian bashing?

I await your response.

JMAN05:


1tim 2:11-12

11 Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but she is to remain silent

This is an auto-response without any logical input.

I ask you once again, what are the circumstances that led to Paul writing this letter to brother Timothy? If you believe in the premise of cause and effect, you will understand that Paul's advise to Timothy is not a random letter to him. What brought about that scenario?

My second question, are all Paul's letter inspired?

JMAN05:


The congregation was execrated for allowing her to teach.

You are being disingenuous bro. Jesus never condemned Jezebel because she was a woman, but because she was a false prophet leading the people of God astray with formication and all forms of unrighteousness. Read the verse again:

Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.

If you want to be fair, you will agree that, just like we have false Prophetesses (females), we also have false prophets (males). Have we seen male pastors, teachers, publishers doing wrong in the church, sleeping with female church members? Yes. Can we then conclude that all male pastors, prophets, etc are false teachers or prophets? No.

So your using Jezebel as a basis for your argument is wrong and illogical.

Jesus didn't not rebuke her congregation because she (Jezebel) taught, but because she was a false prophetess who caused the fall of servants of God through immorality.

MuttleyLaff:
The eyes are useless when the mind is blind
so I am not surprised you see no support for the obvious in those verses

Of course, it is CLEARLY discussing male and female
Thank God, that, you CLEARLY, at least see it is discussing male and female.

¹¹Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
¹²But I suffer not a woman to teach,
nor to usurp authority over the man but to be in silence.
¹³For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
¹⁴And Adam was not deceived,
but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
¹⁵Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing,
if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
1 Timothy 2:11-15

''I do not permit a woman to... '' is different from ''God doesnt permit a woman to...''
''Woman should not...'' is clearly different from ''woman must not...''
''Let the woman...'' is clearly different from ''Let the women...''

Who was this woman? Who was this man?

All the nouns and pronouns used, there in 1 Timothy 2:11-15, are in singulars (e.g. woman, man & she)
Also ''they'' is a singular pronoun
Evidentally, 1 Timothy 2:11-15 is, Pqul addressing a localised anonymous couple (i.e. unidentified husband & wife) issue
and far from the truth, is it oe Paul proposing a global ban on learned women from teaching privately or publicly

If right now, you still don't understand this, then as we live in hope....pray, maybe one day, you will.

As a side note,
I dont know the reason why Paul seems to hold Priscilla in a higher esteem than he does her husband (e.g. 2 Acts 18:18-19, Timothy 4:19 and Romans 16:3)
He even has a pet name for Priscilla.

Back on track, but you have right to your Men's Club, where women are expected to be seen and not heard

I'm really thrilled by your great mastery of English language and the way you easily analysed Paul's mindset concerning 1 Timothy 2: 11-15. God bless you my 'Oga', 'tuale' Sir, my respect.

If JMAN05 cannot still see his futility at misinterpreting and misrepresenting Paul's real intent, with respect to the subject matter, then he is not ready to learn. And it is unfortunate that JW members are rigorously groomed to reject any argument, belief and/or doctrine that run contrary to JW's officially sanctioned doctrine presented as 'the Bible truth', even though JW doctrines are continually opened to modifications with the excuses that 'the light is getting brighter'.

Martinez19:
Whether you like it or not, the bible says that women should not be teachers in the church. They have the gifts of the holy spirit but the teaching office in the church is reserved for men. Women are to be silent in church. 1corinthians 14: 34-35, 1 corinthians 14: 37-38.

God can change his word at anytime without notice.

MuttleyLaff:
I didnt ask you about the word poimen
What I explicitly and specifically asked you about was the word, pastor
and where you claimed have found this explicit and exact pastor word mentioned 18 times in the NT

My suspicion was correct that you're conflating shepherd with pastor,
and that's why I asked you:
Or are you interchanging shepherd with pastor?

Partially exempting Eph 4:11, glaringly there is no pastor word from this your list ooo

Eph 4:11 is the closest you'll ever have in finding/seeing the word ''pastor'' in the NT
and as it happens, that word pastor in Eph 4:11 sef, isnt in singular but is in plural
(i.e. pastor with an appending ''s'')

Your words:

Jesus is a Pastor (e.g. noun)
Though saints pastors (e.g. verb) they arent called pastors (e.g noun)
How many times is pastor written /found in the NT?

I replied:

That they aren't called pastors as a title does not mean that the word "pastor" for some saints are not noun. "Pastor" occurs as a noun in the NT.

I can count 18 times that the word translated pastor appeared.

What here do you not understand? You are contending that only Jesus is called "pastor" (noun), and that saints have pastor applied to them as a verb. This is wrong. Didnt you see that my comment is dealing with the WORD "Pastor" itself? Or didnt you see the pastor in quotation marks?

I am faulting your claim of using the word pastor as noun for Jesus and verb for some saints. The word was never a verb for saints. And that even the word TRANSLATED pastor is never a verb. You see me bold-face "word translated" in my reply.

The word translated pastor is poimen, it occurred 18 times. I ve given you all the occurrences. Or you think that since KJV used "pastors" in that verse, that all translation translated "poimen" as pastors?

Who is your Shepherd? Remember Psalms 23?
Well, no one else but Jesus is the Shepherd (i.e. noun)

Feeding (i.e. verb) the flock isnt a licence to be called a pastor/shepherd
That title is reserved for Jesus, the True, One and Only Shepherd

It's similar to a parent administering medicine to an unwell child isnt a licence for the parent to be called a doctor
or cooking for the family isnt a licence to be called a chef

Psalm 23 stated that Jehovah/Yahweh is my shepherd, not Jesus. Of course, the term was still applied to Jesus in John 10:11 as I gave above.

Your analogy doesnt fit, since the bible itself applied the word shepherd (noun) to elders. (1Pet 5:1,2; Acts 20:28). Granted, Jehovah is the Supreme Shepherd, while Jesus is a shepherd of higher sort than human shepherds, but human shepherds were not called shepherd in the verbal sense as you claim. You have given no good proof for this.

And Christ gave some, apostles;
and some, prophets; and some, evangelists;
and some, pastors and teachers;
- Ephesians 4:11

How is the flock fed? by Ephesians 4:11's the combo of pastors and teachers
Ephesians 4:11 is gender agnostic, its no respecter of person
Now you see why and on what basis a woman is made to feed the flock

I think it'll be a low-esteemed man finding/seeing a woman teaching good, right and correct in private/public, that will want to shut up her up and/or shut her down

That Ephesians mentioned pastors/shepherds which the lord has given to the church. Since we see that elders are thus designated in other scriptures as spiritual shepherds, this part of the scripture is still referring to the elders as gift given to feed Gods sheep. No one is instructed to feed Gods sheep, only the elders.

Your scholars understand this well, only that some under the influence of satan is setting a standard different from the one Jesus himself set. May they be accursed. I repeat, may all of them be accursed for raising commandment different from the one Jesus set. In fact, they are already disregarded. (1cor 14:37, 38; gal 1:8, 9)

Vine's Expository Dictionary, although not a JW says:

poimen >, NT:4166), "a shepherd, one who tends herds or flocks" (not merely one who feeds them), is used metaphorically of Christian "pastors," Eph 4:11. "Pastors" guide as well as feed the flock, cf. Acts 20:28, which with v. 17, indicates that this was the service committed to elders (overseers or bishops) (from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

MuttleyLaff:
¹¹Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
¹²But I suffer not a woman to teach,
nor to usurp authority over the man but to be in silence.
¹³For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
¹⁴And Adam was not deceived,
but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
¹⁵Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing,
if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
1 Timothy 2:11-15

If they (i.e. the anonymous husband & wife couple) continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
How many couples are in a ''husband & wife relationship''? One isnt it?
Well, that's one example from many, of how a singular pronoun (i.e. a ''singular they'') comes to be used

Goodness! Oga, "They" is not a singular pronoun. You don pass this abeg. If you dont understand why plural pronoun was employed, let this commentary help you. It is from your scholars:

Calvin's commentary:

"1 Timothy 2:15
In consequence of the old translation having used the expression, "the birth of children," it has been commonly thought that this clause refers to the children. But the term used by Paul to denote "child-bearing" is a single word, and therefore it must refer to the women."
(from Calvin's Commentaries)

Bro dont you see that Paul's advices/instructions were layered?
Where, centring around verse 8, it started with general and wide advices to men,
then moving on to verses 9-10, equal and applicable advices to women in general were given
before lastly in verses 11-15, drilling down to the anonymous husband & wife couple

The logical conclusion is that Paul gave the advise, one for men and another for women. It appears you are saying the same thing.

however, i dont agree that an anonymous couple is implied in verse 11-15. The "they" refers to women as a whole.

true2god:
You know me too well that I have over 95% knowledge of JW theology. We didn't start debating religion recently. I ask you again, why is it convenient for JW to bash Christians (or what you guys call the Christendom) without having the same moral courage to bash Islam? And I challenge you once again, can you give me a single watchtower or Awake! publication without any Christian bashing?

I await your response.

You are ill-informed.

true2god:
You know me too well that I have over 95% knowledge of JW theology. We didn't start debating religion recently. I ask you again, why is it convenient for JW to bash Christians (or what you guys call the Christendom) without having the same moral courage to bash Islam? And I challenge you once again, can you give me a single watchtower or Awake! publication without any Christian bashing?

I await your response.

If I list just one watchtower or awake without a Christian bashing, will you accept to be an idiot and a fool? Ur answer.

If you claim to know 95% of our theology, this is a small request. Am waiting...

true2god:
You are being disingenuous bro. Jesus never condemned Jezebel because she was a woman, but because she was a false prophet leading the people of God astray with formication and all forms of unrighteousness. Read the verse again:

Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.

If you want to be fair, you will agree that, just like we have false Prophetesses (females), we also have false prophets (males). Have we seen male pastors, teachers, publishers doing wrong in the church, sleeping with female church members? Yes. Can we then conclude that all male pastors, prophets, etc are false teachers or prophets? No.

So your using Jezebel as a basis for your argument is wrong and illogical.

Jesus didn't not rebuke her congregation because she (Jezebel) taught, but because she was a false prophetess who caused the fall of servants of God through immorality.

For once, you ve said something reasonable. Although ur KJV presents it as if teaching was among the error, this is not likely the case.

However, it still doesn't help to support that women can properly/divinely authorised to teach in a church service. It doesn't support the notion that women are authorised to feed the flock. 1pet 5:1,2.

We wouldn't expect that she went to the podium and shouts "brethren, we have a topic titled fornication. God said it is OK to commit immorality". If that's what you think, sorry. Her misleading must have been done when church service is over. Or she may even have followers who dines in her recommended avenue and still attends xten meetings without her being expelled.

At any rate, she isn't a good example to reference.