This thread is for us to continue the discussion that we started on another thread:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-94905.32.html#msg5411957

But first there are issues I will like to clarify before we start.
1) I am a crossbearer, an adherent of the Grail Message. My views are not biblical, and I have never claimed that they are. I my views are born out of my knowledge of life, spirituality and God, as taught by the Grail message.

2) I am not here to convert anybody to my views. I only offer my views for you to consider. I expect you to give me your views too for me to consider, I do not see any room for fights and quareel in this. This should be a friendly exchange of views. I don't expect you to lie or swallow your feelings just to please me; because I would not do that. Where you find my views weird, feel free to say it. I should not be angry about your perception of my views.

3) I do not consider everything in the Bible to be false. Characters in the bible actally existed, only that my explanation of their actions and their words may be different from the biblical(christian explanation). IE I believe in Jesus as the son of God, but I do not believe in some of the things written about Him, and some of the explanation that people give to His words.

4) What I don't condone is ridcling other peoples heroes, IE making fun fun of Jesus, Mohamed, and etc. I also find it appalling when posters tell blatant lies and falsely accuse fellow posters just because their views are different. (I have been accused of being seeklove). If our discusion degrades to that level, I will just exit the discussion.
One of my principles in life is to avoid people and places that annoy me.

5) It is wrong to hate people just because of their religious orientation. So lets try to hear everybody out, and remove hate from the discussion. I believe we can all exist together. I come from a multireligiouse background- I am a crossbearer, my wife is not, my mother is a strong catholic, one of my best friends is a Catholic priest, but we all exist together. Actally discussions are more interesting when people have different views.

6) Everybody has a right to his/her perception of God. If I think that God is green, and you think that God is yellow, I should not be angry with you. You have a right to your own perception of God. God does not belong to me exclusively, neither does he belong to you exclusively. After all God gives rainfall, sunshine, and etc to both the righteous and unrighteous; we human should also allow everybody the right to have a perception of God. But it is wrong when people ridicule or make fun of their neighbors perception of God.

I have not seen you two(Viaro and nuclearboy) doing any of the bad things that why I am inviting you to this discussion. I wrote the above so that you can understand me and so that others will be able to join our discussion without bringing disturbances.

Viaro Nuclearboy

First off, you'e forcing your ideas in here by not being consistent with the texts which modupe01 quoted. You asked a question based on the Bible - and if you want to answer based on the Bible, stay with the Bible. Otherwise, your comments actually sound like you are the one who wants to set bounds for God in the Bible and then dictate to Him what He should do and what He ought not to do. The Biblical answer to such an attitude is Isaiah 40:13 - "Has anyone told the LORD what He must do or given Him advice?" (CEV).

True, many people have come to this idea that God does not 'change' His rules to show mercy to people - but I verily doubt whether those making such statements actually know what the 'rules'  or 'mercy' of God are. Here is what the Bible teaches:


(a) the Bible teaches that God has MANIFOLD mercies:
'Yet thou in thy manifold mercies forsookest them not in the wilderness' ~ Neh. 9:19

(b) the Bible teaches that God has MANIFOLD wisdom:
'To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God' ~ Ephesians 3:10

(c) the Bible teaches that the ways of God are MANIFOLD:
'O LORD, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches. ' ~ Psalm 104:24

There are others; but these three examples of God's manifold mercies, manifold wisdom and manifold ways show us that God is not an automaton that could be boxed by man's dictates about what He could do and what He could not do! And if God in His manifold wisdom, mercies and ways shows His love in various manners to people, who are we to dictate HOW He should do so, of WHAT exactly He ought to or not to do?!?

First. I am not forcing my opinions on him. In my reply I told him that he has a right to his veiws.

I don't have any problems with the scriptures that you quoted. Yes the mercy of God in manifold. This does not mean that He changes His Laws. God is omnipotent and all the mercies in this world are contained in his laws. I know that God does not change. This is not boxing God in; it is only my peception of God.




I wrote
[Quote]
His rules issue out of Love and Justice which are His mercy.[/Quote]

Viaro replied
[Quote]
How did you arrive at that?[/Quote]

I arrived at this conclusion from my experiencing of life, and from my experiencing of the Grail Message. God is Love, Justice and Purity, so are everything that issue from Him, including His laws.


I wrote
[Quote]
Mercy is contained in His rules(laws), which need not be changed to show mercy.[/Quote]

Viaro replied

How did you come to that conclusion? [/Quote]

The same reason that I gave in the above. God is Love, Justice and Purity, so are everything that issue from Him, including His laws. Mercy is nothing but the effect of Love and Justice.

[quote]
It were better that you say nothing at all where you don't know, than to make assertions that can't be sustained when closely examined.

I don't know what you mean by the above but I think I have sustained all me assertions.

It is not a matter of 'changing rules' - God is NOT an automaton. If your god is such an automaton that has nothing else to do than what you dictate to him, viaro has no qualms about that I would have zipped it and said nothing, for that would be your god. Yet, if you want to teach others that your god is partial, please be our guest and do so without trying to insinuate the same idea into the worldviews that you don't subscribe to.

It is wrong to perceive God as an automaton. That is not what I mean when I said that He changeth not. God is Live itself and He is in no way an automaton. I will give an example. If i know that Viaro never lies, then I can say that Yiaros answers will always be the Truth. Here I am not telling Viaro what to do, neither I'm I saying that Viaro is an automaton. I am only saying that I know Viaro's character which never lies. This is what i mean.

God has not led every generation in the same manner, law or rule. That much is clear from the Bible itself: for the Jews were given the Mosaic Law that pertains to Judaism - a very different thing from the belief systems of the Grail Message. If that were not true, why are you not practising Judaism to buttress your claim that God does not 'change' any rule when He leads His people? "He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. He hath not dealt so with any nation. . ." (Psa. 147:19-20).

What you wrote above may be biblical but this is where my perception does not agree with the biblical perception. I believe that God deals equally with every tribe. But it depends on the people's level of maturity. A people that seeks God and approached Him, will receive more from God than others. It is not that God deals differently with them, rather it is the people that went and proved themselves worthy. I will give an example. The sun is there for everybody at the same distance. If a man climbs a tower, he will receive more sunshine that the man who went into a cave. It does not mean that the sun is partial, rather it lies with men to receive the gifts of the sun or not.

There are also circumstances where His Law was violated - such as when the Mosaic law in Judaism required that adulterers and adultresses be put to death where caught within Israel (Lev. 20:10). But when a woman was caught in the act in John 8, rather than put her to death, Jesus showed mercy without changing the Mosaic Law (). His word to the accusers was simple: 'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her' (verse 7) - and if we carefully think of the weight of that statement, we would find that THEY ALL DESERVED TO BE STONED on the same basis of the legalism they applied to the Law, for none of them was without sin ("there is no man that sinneth not," - 1 Kings 8:46)! But rather than that, Jesus showed them mercy, because it is written: "For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings" (Hos. 6:6).

Such are the manifold ways and mercies and wisdom of God - not that He applies His love to us whimsically, but that He is not tied down to any law, and because he is transcendent, He knows just how to show HIS OWN LOVE to those who stand in need of it.

The mosaic law is a diiferent kind of law. It is a law given to a particular people and adapted to the people. It is not a universal law of God like the law of gravity and etc. The Mosaic law is a law given to the Jews to aid them in their spiritual growth, as their growth changed, the law changed. This is not what I mean when I say the Laws of God. The mosaic is rather a set of rules given to man and made for man. It is different form the eternal laws of God.
I will give an example. We know the laws of mathematics: 10+10=20. I tell my six year old son to carry 20 pebbles, so that when he is asked 10+10=? to count two sets of 10 pebbles. But there will came a time when I will tell him to do away with his pebbles and count in his head. I changed the law that i gave him, the code of conduct, but the law of mathematics remained the same 10+10=20.

You seem to have done that already by setting limitations on God - as if to tell us what you can dictate Him to do or not to do. I don't see any other ways you can justify that excuse on strong statements like:
 ~ "There are no exceptions to the rules of God"
 ~ "God does not change His rules to show mercy to people"
. .  and even going so far as to tie everything up to the idea of partiality.

The one thing that amazes me is that when people try to dictate to others what they should believe, then make subscripts about not trying top force this and that. A nice discussion would do, rather than setting bounds about what God does or does not do.

I do not put limitations on God. When it is said that God can do anything, this is correct if one knows that the "anything" said means anything that is good. There are things God cannot do. God cannot steal, lie, or cheat. God cannot lie. I believe that even the bible said this.

Thanks and remain blessed

One person says God is impartial and thus CANNOT bring some back to life therefore it is wrong that men die once!

All this based on your own definition of impartiality, your attempt to put God into a box (where He cannot do some things you decide) and all because Jesus raised someone back to life! Could you please then discuss Elijah and Enoch? And let us know your own TRUE knowledge of what actually happened to them since they did not die according to the Bible and that would again make God 'partial"?

@nuclearboy
I believe that in the above you were referring to me. I think you completely misunderstood me. I never said that God should not raise the dead. Jesus actually raised the dead, and this is not against the laws of God.

My arguement is to show that perhaps that Scripture :"It is appointed on to man to die once and after death comes judgement,"  may have been interpreted wrongly.

That scripture is very right if the death that is being talked about is spiritual death. Remember there are two types of death: (1) Physical death, and (2) Spiritual death.
Once one dies spiritually, all hopes is lost for such a one. This is tantamount to the individuals name being erased from the book of life. This is the judgement he faces.

But physical death is different. people can die many times physically. So may be that scripture is talking about spiritual death.

But, honestly, I am not sure which death that particular scripture is talking about.

But I am not forcing my opinion on you, and I am not telling you how to interpret your Bible. What I wrote is my perception, you have every right to disagree.


I never said God is partial. My arguement is that God cannot be partial. God cannot lie, cheat or steal. God CANNOT be evil.

Thanks and remain blessed

@arkinses

Please delete that post.

Justcool maybe you can assist me in discussing the nature of God with Viaro. I am at odds that he imagines the laws of God are such that a physical body may dwell bodily in a spiritual realm. I have yet to summon the energy to deal exhaustively with tat presupposition of his. Thanks.

Hello Justcool:

Please allow "arkinses" what he undoubtedly sees as his moment of glory. His input here is an indication of his self-esteem.

Yes, I addressed the said quote to you. My problem here however, is that you have more or less stated that this thread and discussion is already settled in your mind - you've decided what you believe and nobody is going to change that. What then is the basis for this discourse and what are we continuing?

Your "source" remains the writings and understanding of "the grail message".

I believe in a father that I've entered into a relationship with who has stated that His inputs into my life will not stand against the Bible. That Bible does not support incarnation or that multiple physical deaths are a normal occurence. I agree that there are records of such in the Bible which were considered miraculous i.e. "not normal" by the Bible witnesses. And how many? Would you say that having 3 First class graduands from a University in its history means everyone actually gets 1st class degrees but don't just know it? But you say those miracles were actually not miracle but normal.

Let me ask you a few questions -

Before my questions though, you said "There are things God cannot do. God cannot steal, lie, or cheat. God cannot lie. I believe that even the bible said this." In my opinion, you are wrong here - God can do ANYTHING He wants to do. Please note I have not said He steals; what I say is that He can do whatever He wants and because it comes from Him, it is God's and not good or bad or theft or whatever "words" you use to describe them. Look at your statement like this - God cannot lie MEANS God is "limited" to being truthful. God cannot steal MEANS God is "limited" to honesty. Noble Attributes in YOUR estimation but limiting to God. Anyway, if He stole, who would you report Him to? "The Potter has every right over the Clay and can make it an object of scorn or a thing of beauty or destroy it etc". Thats culled from the 45th chapter of Isaiah. His own definition/description of Himself to Moses when asked who He was is very interesting "I AM THAT I AM". Think about that. But then, you don't believe ALL of the Bible, do you?

Now, life started with one man and one woman or is this not what the grail message teaches? Each of them re-incarnating would mean only two people being on earth till date and those would neccesarily come only after the first two were gone since multiple simultaneous instances of the same person is not a premise in re-incarnation. How come the human race is increasing population-wise. Would you then say Creation by the Creator is an on-going process and that the Bible lies when it says all creation stopped after man was created? So when does it stop or do we face an infinity of creation and re-incarnation? There are 6 Billion of earth now but in the last 6, 000 years, much more than 6 Billion have come and gone? What happened to the excess? If you believe re-incarnation is real, you must have some solid information on how it works so please tell me - Caligula the emperor - when did/does he come back and as what?  Using what criteria? Or a baby that died at birth? Or a Muslim in the 18th Century who was illiterate? Or an Atheist? And then my father who is late? What criteria is used to decide when he will come and as what? It would be nice we get an idea of the workings of these things from those of you who are sure of it all because sincerely, it all doesn't make sense to me and I do know claims are cheap. I need you to show some proof rather than make claims.

Enjoy your evening

@DeepSight:

What God's nature are you discussing? If it is the Biblical God, please read my comments ^^^ above. He can do anything. Did you ever hear the word "Aseyi owu" i.e. "He who does as He wishes". And consider also that the idea of raising the dead back to life is on the same level as your "physical body may dwell bodily in a spiritual realm". BTW, did you ever visit that realm to know its nature or are you again, just assuming/interpreting based on your "understanding"?

@nuclearboy
I am very happy about your replies and your questions; and I will offer my perceptions on the issues that you raised.

nuclearboy:

Hello Justcool:

Yes, I addressed the said quote to you. My problem here however, is that you have more or less stated that this thread and discussion is already settled in your mind - you've decided what you believe and nobody is going to change that. What then is the basis for this discourse and what are we continuing?

Your "source" remains the writings and understanding of "the grail message".

Very fair point. The basses for this continuing is (1) To clarify misconceptions that might have arisen from my earlier posts.
(2) To offer you the oppunity to see the issue from my perspective. (3) To allow myself the oppunity to see the issue from your perspective. (4) To offer ourselves the opportunity to know each other, not necessarily to convert. They say that to know somebody is to love that person. What the world today need is love; Christ also taught us to love everybody(even our enemies). If you take time to know somebodies views, you will end up respecting that person, even if you don't accept their views. I believe that the Muslims who mock Christians have not taken time to study Christianity, and likewise the Christains who mock Muslims have not taken time to study Islam. If we can sit down and examine each others views, this will help us understand each other and this will make life on earth more peaceful.

When it comes to spiritual things you don't force people but you are obliged to offer people the Truth when they ask of it. It is right to share your convictions with people but when they refuse it then you should let them continue with theirs. If you are convinced of your beliefs then you should not be afraid to have it examined or to hear other people out.

In the above and in this post, I use the word "you" as a figure of speech; I don't mean you(Nuclearboy) personally.

I make my explanations in the light of the teachings of the Grail Message. In this I am not trying to convert you to the Grail Message, I am only offering my perception pf the issue. It is left for you to examine it and compare it with your own beliefs. If you find it wanting, then discard it. This will make your own believes stronger.

The same thing is applicable to me. I compare the views of others with mine, then decide on what to do. Even if I don't accept theirs, at least I am now more informed and more educated about thee views.

My explanations stems from my experiencing of the Grail Message; however in this particular issues that you raised, I will invite some biblical quote since it is a book that you hold in great regards. I believe this will make it easier for you to understand me. You are also welcome to quote the Grail message for me, since it is a book that I hold in great regard.

nuclearboy:

Hello Justcool:
I believe in a father that I've entered into a relationship with who has stated that His inputs into my life will not stand against the Bible. That Bible does not support incarnation or that multiple physical deaths are a normal occurence. I agree that there are records of such in the Bible which were considered miraculous i.e. "not normal" by the Bible witnesses. And how many? Would you say that having 3 First class graduands from a University in its history means everyone actually gets 1st class degrees but don't just know it? But you say those miracles were actually not miracle but normal.

I see your point, and you are quite right here. The bible does not teach reincarnation. I have said this many a times. My source about reincarnation is not the Bible. It my view that those few accounts in the bible which you consider miraculous may not be miracles. Those may be normal occurrences. It is left for the individual to consider them miraculous or normal. You agree with the biblical explanation that call them miraculous happenings and that's okay. As long as that explanation fills your void, then stay with it.

nuclearboy:

Let me ask you a few questions -

Before my questions though, you said "There are things God cannot do. God cannot steal, lie, or cheat. God cannot lie. I believe that even the bible said this." In my opinion, you are wrong here - God can do ANYTHING He wants to do. Please note I have not said He steals; what I say is that He can do whatever He wants and because it comes from Him, it is God's and not good or bad or theft or whatever "words" you use to describe them. Look at your statement like this - God cannot lie MEANS God is "limited" to being truthful. God cannot steal MEANS God is "limited" to honesty. Noble Attributes in YOUR estimation but limiting to God. Anyway, if He stole, who would you report Him to? "The Potter has every right over the Clay and can make it an object of scorn or a thing of beauty or destroy it etc". Thats culled from the 45th chapter of Isaiah. His own definition/description of Himself to Moses when asked who He was is very interesting "I AM THAT I AM". Think about that. But then, you don't believe ALL of the Bible, do you?

Okay, this is not limmiting God in any way because in God the desire to lie or steal will never arise. Freedom and limitations is very relative to the desire. If you lock up a man inside a room, and that man has no desire to escape that room; even if you open the doors the man will not escape. Then that man is free, eventhough he is locked up in a room.
God will never desire to lie, steal or cheat. God does not even know how to lie, steal, or cheat because these things are against His nature which is Truthfulness. When I said that the fact that God cannot lie is mentioned in the Bible, I was not lying. Now here is the verses:


"So God has given both his promise and his oath. These two things are unchangeable because it is impossible for God to lie. Therefore, we who have fled to him for refuge can have great confidence as we hold to the hope that lies before us."
(Hebrews 6:18)New Living translation Bible.


"in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago,"
(Titus 1:12)

Please look up those two verses in your bible.

nuclearboy:


Now, life started with one man and one woman or is this not what the grail message teaches? Each of them re-incarnating would mean only two people being on earth till date and those would neccesarily come only after the first two were gone since multiple simultaneous instances of the same person is not a premise in re-incarnation. How come the human race is increasing population-wise. Would you then say Creation by the Creator is an on-going process and that the Bible lies when it says all creation stopped after man was created? So when does it stop or do we face an infinity of creation and re-incarnation? There are 6 Billion of earth now but in the last 6, 000 years, much more than 6 Billion have come and gone? What happened to the excess? If you believe re-incarnation is real, you must have some solid information on how it works so please tell me - Caligula the emperor - when did/does he come back and as what?  Using what criteria? Or a baby that died at birth? Or a Muslim in the 18th Century who was illiterate? Or an Atheist? And then my father who is late? What criteria is used to decide when he will come and as what? It would be nice we get an idea of the workings of these things from those of you who are sure of it all because sincerely, it all doesn't make sense to me and I do know claims are cheap. I need you to show some proof rather than make claims.

No that's not exactly what the Grail Message teaches. All Life started with God who is life Himself; only God can create life. We humans spirits were created as spirit germs in Paradise which is in the vicinity of God. As spirit germs we could not become conscious in Paradise due to the immense radiation of the Light of God there. But the desire to become concious(know good from evil in bibilical terms) filled these spirit germs; and the only way for the spirit germs to become conscious is by moving further away from the light, in the planes of matter which lie further way from the light than Paradies. Out of love, God allowed His servants to develop or form the world of matter in which the physcal world belongs. The earth also belong to the physical world. At a certain stage in the development of the earth, God allowed some of the spirit germs from paradise to incarnate on earth. Before they incarnated on earth, they had already journed down from paradise to the etherial ream; and when the earth was ready, they incarnated on earth. This is how man on earth was made, and this is how the human spirit was driven out of Paradise. All the spirit germs in Paradise could not incarnate on earth at once; so they incarnated over a long period of time until the earth passed the stage in its development where no new spirit germs from paradise can incarnate. There are so many spirit germs; so it was not only one man and one woman. After each earth life the spirit continues its existence in the beyond(ethereal realm) which is still part of the material world. After living on earth the spirit is trapped in the part of the ethereal realm which corresponds to its weight; thus theives will find themself in the same plane, killers will find themselves in the same plane, while noble ones will find themselves in a noble plane. The plane corresponds to the nature of the spirit; thus a plane where a killer finds himself will be a bad and ugly plane, a plane of suffering. A plane where a good person finds himself after physical death will be a good and beautiful plane. The spirit stays there until its time for it to incarnate on earth again. It is also possible that a spirit(soul) makes progress in the etherial world, ie- a killer in the etherial plane of killer changes and stops being a killer. This change will alos change its etherial environmemt; it will find itself in better etherial plane, a plane that correspond to its new state. But all these etherial planes still belong to the world of matter.  A spirit that lives according to the laws of God(the true teachings of Christ) will achieve enough maturity and purity that will allow it to be lifted beyond the worlds of matter. Such a spirit enters paradise as a mature and pure human spirit who will not have descend into matter again or incarnate on earth again. Therefore reincarnation is not ment to repeat forever.

The reason why we are in the world of mather is to mature and return back to Paradise which is our real home. This world(the worlds of matter, both here and the etherial) is not hom, rather it is a place lent to us for us to live in and mature. The worlds of matter can be divided into two -(1) Coarse, or gross matter, and (2) etherial matter. Each of these two still have many divisions and many planes. Ie the physical world belongs to the lowest part of the of the worlds of coarse matter.

There are always more spirits in the ethereal world than on earth. Everything that is matter passes through the four stages of birth, blossoming, ripeness,and decay(death). Our physical bodies go through this process, so does the earth and the whole material universe. Now that the whole world of matter entering the stage where destruction(decay) sets in, many human spirits who are in the beyond are rushing to incarnate on earth and pay their debts(purify themselves) and be lifted out of matter to paradise before the destruction of matter takes place. This is part of the reason why the earth is overpopulated today.

There comes a time when the worlds of matter enters the stage of decay, it decays; only to be reborn and the process continues. But a spirit that cannot free itself from matter will remain in matter while matter decays. Being drawn in the process of decomposition of matter will make the spirit lose conciousness, the spirit returns to being a spirit germ; and returns to paradise as a spirit germ. This is tantamount to the death of the spirit or more precisely the death of the acquired ago, or personality.


The law of reciprocal action demands that a spirit must redeem its guilt in the same plane where he committed the crime. IE a killer on earth must return back to the earth to pay for the crimes he/she committed on earth. Thus such a spirit must reincarnate to pay its debts. That's why we see people born blind, and people born with terminal illnesses and we wonder why God is so unjust to them. It is not injustice, it is the Karma that they incurred in their past lives on earth, which they must remeed on earth. This could also why some kids die at birth. But if one repents and does only good, a way will be shown to him/her through which he/she can pay for his/her karma without suffering. IE a Killer who repents might in his next earth life decide to be a doctor, by saving peoples lives as a doctor, he has payed for his karma. Therefore when a man truly repents, all sins will be forgiven him.

People dont usually remenber who they were in thier past lives. This is also a manifestation of the love of God. This makes the individual feel like he/she has been given a fresh start, the memory of the past would not deter it. Ie- if one learns that he was Nero in his past live, this may make him lose all hope of salvation. But in not remembering his past, he is given an oppunity to carry on do good deads.

I cannot tell you when each spirit will return to earth, the laws of God guide and direct all these things. It depends on the spirits developement, and its Karma. Some of the times, it is karma that forces the spirit to reincarnate on earth.

I will give an example: If you harm sombody on earth and the person refuses to forgive you. You are tied to this person with an invissible cord. As long as the unforginess remains, this cord remains, and you cannot enter paradise when you are tied to somebody like that.  This tie may force you to reincarnate on earth when that person reincarntes. You may reincarnate as his relative and in this incarnation you are given the oppotunity to earn his forgiveness. Ie a man who harms a girl might be forced to reincarnate as the girls son in his next life. By being a good son, he earns the girls love and forgiveness whithout actually knowing it; he is freed from this tie.

The same is applicable to the person who refuses to forgive. If you refuse to forgive, you are tied to the person you refused to forgive, and you cannever enter paradise untill you have severed this tie by genuinlely forgiving the person that offended. Even if the person is in hell and you are on earth, distances doesnt matter. This tie may force you to incarnate on earth in the vicinity of your offender. This is why forgiveness is very important.

There is a law that everything must return back to its origin. Thus our physical bodies which came from the earth( the physcal world) it must at the end return or remain in the physical world. No physical body(flesh and blood) can enter the ethereal realm, and likewise, no ethereal body can enter the spiritual realm. The physical body must be left in the physical world, and the ethereal body must left in the ethereal realm before the spirit enter the spiritual world(Paradise) with its spiritual body. Therefore the physical body with is corruptible can never enter the spiritual world which is incorruptible. It lacks the lightness and consistency of the spiritual. It is the spiritual world that is the kingdom of God.

Paul hinted this when he said:

"I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable" (hebrews 6:18)

What I wrote is a summery of a great and an immense process. I can go deeper into it. Let me know the areas that are confusing and I will elaborate.

nuclearboy:

Enjoy your evening

I am enjoying my weekend immensely; my kids and my wife are such joy to be around. At the moment I have a little cold, so they are pamparing me. I am making them think that my condition is worst than it is; you see what a bad boy I am.  If I tell them that I'm well, they will stop pampering me.

I hope you are enjoying yours too.

remain blessed.

Deep Sight:

Justcool maybe you can assist me in discussing the nature of God with Viaro. I am at odds that he imagines the laws of God are such that a physical body may dwell bodily in a spiritual realm. I have yet to summon the energy to deal exhaustively with tat presupposition of his. Thanks.

@ Deepsight
Thanks for your concerns, I believe that I addressed them in the last part of my reply to Nuclearboy.

About the nature of God. Being a human spirit, I can never know the nature of God. That is really beyond the ability of every created being. Not even the angels in the Divine realm nor the Primordial Spiritual beings at the summit of creation know the nature of God.

But a human spirit can sense the will of God because the spirit carries the ability to do so. The will of God is placed in the Laws of God and the laws of creation.

An alert spirit can easily sense from these laws that God is unchangeable. He is perfection from time immemorial and will forever remain perfection. And perfection precludes changeability.

Nothing physical can enter the spiritual ream. The physical cannot rise above the physical plane. Nothing physical can enter the Divine realm and the spiritual realm. No physical body can exist in the vicinity of God. The physical cannot withstand the enormous pressure of the light of God which exsist in the spiritual plane. It is like taking a candle wax to the surface of the sun. It will varnish before you get any close to the sun.

Thanks and remain blessed.

I need to say that I am impressed by your good-will, friendliness and style. I wish all posters on NL could have your charm and maturity Sadly, few come close to you. Soon we will be blessed when my good friend, the Alien Viaro shows up. Seriously though, you join such as Viaro, Imhotep, Maven (who refuses to write to me outside NL), a few others and of course DeepSight (though that one has decided to turn NL into a court where winning is all that counts) in my Hall of fame. B4 we go further, let me state now that I have not really studied the Grail Message. My history is colored with more personal and selfish oriented experiences which would make most shudder! But if you and m-nwankwo are average examples of the Grail discipline, kudos to it (on a purely mental and not Christianity related level).

Let me start my response with your statement "in God the desire to lie or steal will never arise" - Maybe I'm crazy or I'm not what people take the regular Believer to be but here's my take - Please study 2 Chr 18:18. Here we have a tale of a King "hated" by God! He is considering a campaign on the war-field and God Himself seeks a lying spirit to convince the king to his defeat and death. I will never say God lied! That is a judgment. What I will do is repeat after God and say of Him " HE IS THAT HE IS". This fallacy of "God cannot Lie, cannot cheat, cannot become a man or part of the wind emanating from a belch, cannot be cruel or do evil, cannot do whatever He wants to do" has caused too much trouble on earth. GOD HAS A RIGHT TO DO WHATEVER HE WISHES. Look at it this way - if you kill someone, you are a murderer! If God kills someone, God is God! Do you see the difference? I see your take as limiting God to the incapability to want or desire or do some things!

Your "Spirit Germs" idea is somewhat fascinating but contains an integral (for me) problem. If your "germs" seek expression at their initiation when they are innocent/fresh/new/sinless/etc outside of the realm of God because they cannot cope with the "immense radiation" there, how come "maturity" brings them back to THAT SAME PURITY (after the corruption of life on earth). I personally cannot imagine how a man that has been exposed to women can ever EVER E V E R hope to achieve the purity of this "spirit germ" you've described. Or you believe the impure is able to go into God's presence when the pure cannot? What kinda God are we discussing? The Holy One you describe?

Because in the context you've described, maturity would basically entail "corruption" because the best of us is just that - corrupted!

With your "karmic" description, I now understand why DeepSight believed Elijah came back to die as JTB (to pay for his "sin" of murder). However, two things also come to mind - [1] JTB denied he was Elijah and [2] Elijah appeared at the transfiguration! Does re-incarnation support Elijah being JTB and still being a separate entity at the same time? Are we now to expect JTB to come back and redress that "sin" of lying by stating he truly is Elijah?

Think about my last question very carefully - say, you are the re-incarnation of JTB come back to redress that "sin". Suppose you say you are Elijah - have you solved JTB's problem? Consider that you are "justcool", not JTB, not Elijah! In effect, the import of your confession is that you, justcool are Elijah, not that JTB is Elijah! OR do you believe you speak as Elijah and JTB too? Imagine the chaos your belief systems suggests - is it comparable to the relative sanity we have on earth? I mean, I know we're crazy but stillllllllllll!

Claims as I posited in my last post, are so easy to make. The problem is dealing with the rebuttals that must surely arise.

Please deal with the above before we get into the really difficult portions

@nuclearboy

Thanks for you kind words and reply. I don't think I have more maturity than you do, otherwise we wont be able share our views amicably as we do now. It takes two, so don't give me all the glory.

I think we have expressed our views in the issue of whether God can lie, steal or cheat. Therefore there is not need for me to say anything else on that regards. You have stated you beliefs on that issue, and if what you stated is truly your conviction then stay with it. 


On the issue of spirit germs this is what I have to say: The spirit germs were pure in the beginning when they were created by God, all that God created is pure. They could not become conscious in Paradise because they were spirit germs, IE seedlings. Also, the spirit germs were not the only things that God created in Paradise; along with the germs there were Angels, Primordial spirits and spirits, these were conscious from the time they were created.

Just as you have to plant a seed into ground or bury it on the earth for it to mature and grow, the spirit germs were planted into the world of matter. The world or matter carries the condition necessary for the spirit to germinate and grow, IE only experiencing the world of mater will awaken the spirit and consequently make grow and mature. It is true that the spirit can become impure in the world of matter but before it can return back to Paradise, it must become pure again.  You are right that nothing impure can exist in the vicinity of God; nothing impure can enter Paradise.
The spirit can only return back to Paradise when it is pure, but it can return as a conscious mature spirit or as a spirit germ. Spirits that are impure and therefore could not detach themselves from matter before the destruction of the worlds of matter, will be drawn into the process of destruction which will destroy the personality that the spirit have achieved and the spirit will return back to a pure spirit germ, and then this purity will allow it to float towards paradise. On the other hand living the true teachings of Jesus will make a spirit attain purity and also maturity and consciousness; such a spirit will be able to detach itself from matter before the destruction of matter. Such a spirit will return to Paradise as a mature, conscious, and pure spirit with a name and a personality.


The idea that John the baptise was a reincarnate of Elijah is wrong, John the baptise was not Elijah. John the baptise was one of the spirits that I mentioned earlier who were created in Paradise and have been conscious from the beginning. John the baptise is a primordial spiritual being who was sent to the earth to baptise Jesus,and prepare mankind for the message of Jesus. John the baptise did his work faithfully and returned back to Paradise after he was beheaded on earth.

I am a human spirit, I have been allowed to see potions of my past lives, especially the mistakes that I made. Those mistakes are why I am on earth today. I am not Elijah, neither am I John the baptise. John the baptise is a primordial spiritual being, and not a human spirit. He is in the primordial spiritual plane which is above the spiritual planes of human spirits, yet this plane is far below the Divine plane where Jesus came from.

I hope I have thrown light in your questions. I am happy that you mentioned m_nwankwo. m_nwankwo is mature, honest and also very knowledgeable in issues conserening the Grail Message. He perceptions will also be greatfully welcomed by me. So m_nwankwo, please offer your perceptions.


Thanks

@justcool

Thank you for the invitation and your response to my concerns brought over from the other thread. No worries in the way you see things; but a few points to note that would save us going back and forth in this discourse:

1. Just wondering: what purpose would it serve you as a crossbearer to engage in this discourse with Christians where issues are drawn from the Bible? I notice you already said in the OP that:

justcool:
My views are not biblical, and I have never claimed that they are

. .  and then later stated that:

What you wrote above may be biblical but this is where my perception does not agree with the biblical perception.

. . thus it becomes even more quizzical to begin our discourse, especially where you know that viaro would be pointing to the Bible for his convictions and not to the Grail Message or drawing from your perception. For me, my faith in Christ is not freelance where you ride any which way on the wings of anybody's "perceptions" - rather, I'm committed to Christ on the basis of what the Bible declares.

If it were to be two Christians discussing from the Bible, I could see where we would be going. But how does anyone begin to argue Biblical matters with someone who affirms that his views are 'not Biblical', nor does it appear that you would be persuaded about any point where it is lucidly pointed out as clearly Biblical in doctrine and theology?

`````````````

2. Following the point above, it is remarkable that many people of various persuasions and worldviews try to engage in dialogues with Christians - not so much as to rub minds together on things pertaining to God, but rather to redefine the Biblical worldview for Christians and yet not subscribe, accede or accent to the Christian Faith at all! It is just as well for the Christian to teach the crossbearer the religion of Abd-ru-Shin without subscribing to the Grail Message! This I find very unfortunate, and that is where all sorts of ideas pass back and forth as to what you may think about 'God' while disagreeing with what the Bible declares about Him and His ways - a very dangerous proposal indeed!

An example: on the matter of 'physcial bodies' being taken to heaven, you guys actually set limits on what you perceive to be the demonstration of God's power, because of your inability to grasp His transcendence. Consequently, you excuse clear pointers in the Bible showing where this is already accomplished (as in the case of Elijah in 2 Kings 2:11 and Enoch in Heb. 11:5). However, informed Christians have no problem whatsoever thereto, and that's why your 'perception' has absolutely no value on what is plainly declared in the Bible - whether you agree or disagree is manifestly inconsequential.

`````````````


3. I'd like to say a word about exclusivity, following this statement in your 6th point in the OP:

justcool:
You have a right to your own perception of God. God does not belong to me exclusively, neither does he belong to you exclusively.

Although commendable, I'd go one step further to say that Christianity and Abd-ru-shin's religion are mutually exclusive and have no outcomes in common. This is not about anyone's 'perceptions' of God here and there, but rather about what we as Christians believe on the basis of what the Bible declares - afterall, the concerns of this thread are pointing back to the Bible for the most part, and not to the Grail Message or what perceptions are held by crossbearers. So often it appears that authors in the Grail Movement concern themselves far too much with matters about the Christian worldview that one begins to wonder what originality they possess in themselves apart from the Biblical faiths!

The danger in this is twofold:

(a) the tendency to redefine the Christian Faith through the lenses of the Grail Movement - whereby uninformed Christians quickly lose sight of the essentials of the new covenant which we have in the redemption of the Blood of Christ.

(b) the tendency to be blur the distinct message of the Bible by your own assumptions - whereby setting limitations and boundaries on God's transcendence in order to maintain a tribal loyalty to your own worldview.

The second point (b) above is not accusative, because it pretty quickly becomes obvious that your rejoinders would repeatedly be polarised away from the Bible, no matter how many times you may quote its verses for your arguments.


It is on the basis of these preliminary remarks that it seems futile to engage in this exercise, because more than anything you're not arguing Christianity but rather making a case for your affinity to the Grail Message. No matter how many pages we may argue back and forth here, we shall not arrive at any common outcomes - so that, even though I could overturn every point in your arguments thus far, it would be a waste of time and resources to betake ourselves to such an exercise.

@DeepSight,

Deep Sight:

Justcool maybe you can assist me in discussing the nature of God with Viaro. I am at odds that he imagines the laws of God are such that a physical body may dwell bodily in a spiritual realm. I have yet to summon the energy to deal exhaustively with tat presupposition of his. Thanks.

I don't think you have demonstrated "the nature of God" in any discourse between us, which makes your quest all the more teasingly moot. The question of a physical body being taken into heaven as in the case of Elijah in 2 Kings 2:11 has been trashed too many times, and not in one instance have you shown me anywhere that Elijah's spirit was separated from his physical body to experience death as Biblically defined (James 2:26 - 'the body without the spirit is dead').

Asking a crossbearer to help you in this case is even far more futile - afterall, did he not say that he could "never know the nature of God" (post #9)?? It is not as if I would acclaim to know everything about the 'nature' of God; but, at least, the Bible declares a few things about God, which I've tersely expressed as 'transcendence' .

Yet, on the question death, the following is excerpted from Grailnet supposedly from Abd-ru-shin's Grail Message:

[list][center]What is Death?[/center][/list]

[list]"Thus it also happens that the soul must separate from a body which has been forcibly destroyed, ruined by disease or weakened by old age, at the very moment when this body, owing to its changed condition, can no longer produce that strength of radiation which brings about such a magnetic power of attraction as is necessary to play its part in the firm union between soul and body!

This results in earthly death, or the falling back, the falling away of the gross material body from the ethereal covering of the spirit, thus in separation. This is a process which takes place, in accordance with firmly-established Laws, between two species which only unite at an exactly corresponding degree of heat through the radiation simultaneously produced, but which can never blend, and which fall apart again when one of the two different species can no longer fulfill the condition laid upon it."[/list]



The purpose of this is to again bring you guys to a common context of the term 'death', just to reiterate the emphasis of "separation" between soul (or spirit) from the body. In which case, I would indeed have expected either you or justcool to contravene the fact that such was NOT the case for either Elijah (2 Kings 2:11), or for Enoch (Heb. 11:5) - at the very least, it is manifestly stated in the latter's case that 'Enoch was translated that he should not see death', and I've waited forever to see verses you guys could produce to show that both Elijah and Enoch indeed DIED in the same context of 'death' as defined in James 2:26 - a separation of the spirit from the body.

Could you please, guys, show me any verse(s) that states quite simply that either Elijah or Enoch experienced this 'DEATH' as we have too many times discussed? It matters very little to me what anyone wants to "perceive" or what anyone means by 'firmly-established Laws' - if after all the back and forths, NONE OF YOU are able to show plainly ANY VERSE(S) that states directly that both Elijah and Enoch experienced death. I don't have the stomach for any further prevarications on this issue from you guys, please - so if you can't kindly oblige my one request, don't bother to be further comical on this point!

@viaro

Thanks for your concerns. I will address them. The reason why I am continuing this discussion is not to convert you; it is because you accused me of forcing my opinions on Christians. Here is what you said:

Well, what could I say? I was reactive there in my response to justcool because my day has been hectic indeed. The one thing that irks me is a comment or post that tells the Christian how to believe in the ways of God when such a poster does not even subscribe to the Christian worldview. Ha! But I'd already hit the reply botton before I calmed down and felt I should've been a lil genial and gentle towards justcool

That's why I made it clear here that my view is not biblical neither do I in any tey to tell you how to beleive in the ways of God.

My purpose of joining Nairaland is not to convert people; actuality no human being have to the power to convert another person. People get converted when they hear a teaching that corresponds to their inner maturity; I already know that no amount of argument can make one convert another person.

But in the world of today it is important that people know what their neighbor is all about. All wars that has ever been fought on earth was due to the fear of the unknown. Muslims kill Christains because they have no idea what Christianity is all about; to Christians are people who want to destroy Allah. And some Christians fight Muslims because of the same reason. Take ogboni fraternity for example; from childhood we hear all sorts of things about them; these rumores are born out of fear. But it is unfair to regard them as evil until one sits down and examines their beliefs and practices. What the world need today is dialogue; not to convert but to educate.

I offer explanations in the light of the Grail Message so that you know what the Grail Message says and not to convert you. I also want hear your views to educate myself more about the Christian world view but necessarily to convert. The more I know about Christianity, the easier it becomes for me to co-exist with Christains.

Look at the quarrel on Nairaland alone. It is not funny because for you it may end on Nairaland; but some may take it deeper and actually go to harm others. I believe that if Mutalab have had to opportunity to actally know Christains and Americans, he would not have tried to blow them up. Ignorance and fear are the two major problems of the world, and I believe that peacefull dialogue can help in the eradication of ignorance and fear.

But if you feel that there is no need for us to continue; then you have all the right in the world to walk out. Either way you chose, I wish you well.


About Elijah. The Grail Message said nothing about Elijah; I have made it clear that Elijah is not John the baptise. I don't think that the actions of Elijah and Enoch are part of my spiritual life. Their actions are not part of my convictions as a crossbearer; therefore I leave them out of my argument. I know nothing about Elijah and Enuch.

Thanks.

@Justcool

I hope I have thrown light in your questions. I am happy that you mentioned m_nwankwo. m_nwankwo is mature, honest and also very knowledgeable in issues conserening the Grail Message. He perceptions will also be greatfully welcomed by me. So m_nwankwo, please offer your perceptions.

Hi Justcool. How are you? Thanks for the kind words. Your explanations on the evolution of spirit germs to human spirits is in my sensing according to the Truth. Also your explanation on  John the Baptist is also in accordance with the Truth. Thus there is no point for me to repeat the same thing fundamentally, albeit in different words. Be assured that I am following the thread and if I spiritually percieve a genuine need of somebody on nairaland, not necessarily among those who are participating in this thread to know exactly what happened to Elijah and the soul path of Elijah then I will gladly offer my perception.

As always I admire your insight into spiritual things and may God continue to give you wisdom. Stay blessed.

@justcool,

I think all that needs to be said in the preliminaries have been said, so there's no need for me to go round again making the same points. It's not a bother to me whatever purpose drew you to register on Nairaland - whether to convert anyone or not: I take that as inconsequential. There's enough to show that people get converted one way or another by what they read on Nairaland and other sites on the web.

Now to address this:

justcool:

The reason why I am continuing this discussion is not to convert you; it is because you accused me of forcing my opinions on Christians. Here is what you said:

Well, what could I say? I was reactive there in my response to justcool because my day has been hectic indeed. The one thing that irks me is a comment or post that tells the Christian how to believe in the ways of God when such a poster does not even subscribe to the Christian worldview. Ha! But I'd already hit the reply botton before I calmed down and felt I should've been a lil genial and gentle towards justcool

That's why I made it clear here that my view is not biblical neither do I in any tey to tell you how to beleive in the ways of God.

My apologies if it sounded accusative to you; but it yet does not shift a dot from the same point I reiterated in my previous remarks in this thread, viz:

viaro:

2. Following the point above, it is remarkable that many people of various persuasions and worldviews try to engage in dialogues with Christians - not so much as to rub minds together on things pertaining to God, but rather to redefine the Biblical worldview for Christians and yet not subscribe, accede or accent to the Christian Faith at all! It is just as well for the Christian to teach the crossbearer the religion of Abd-ru-Shin without subscribing to the Grail Message! This I find very unfortunate, and that is where all sorts of ideas pass back and forth as to what you may think about 'God' while disagreeing with what the Bible declares about Him and His ways - a very dangerous proposal indeed!

. . . and if I have to go back to the other thread to make the same point, here again:

viaro: First off, you'e forcing your ideas in here by not being consistent with the texts which modupe01 quoted. You asked a question based on the Bible - and if you want to answer based on the Bible, stay with the Bible. Otherwise, your comments actually sound like you are the one who wants to set bounds for God in the Bible and then dictate to Him what He should do and what He ought not to do.

So, if you're telling me that your views are not Biblical and yet trying to tell me what God does and does not do, doesn't that already makes this whole exercise quite futile? If we're discussing the things of God from a Biblical perspective, what would it benefit you to argue anything while yet claiming your views are unbiblical? It would be like you're asking me to look away from the Bible and then pay more attention to your own unblical 'perspectives' and opinions!

justcool:

But in the world of today it is important that people know what their neighbor is all about. All wars that has ever been fought on earth was due to the fear of the unknown. Muslims kill Christains because they have no idea what Christianity is all about; to Christians are people who want to destroy Allah. And some Christians fight Muslims because of the same reason. Take ogboni fraternity for example; from childhood we hear all sorts of things about them; these rumores are born out of fear. But it is unfair to regard them as evil until one sits down and examines their beliefs and practices. What the world need today is dialogue; not to convert but to educate.

This discourse is not about whatever fraternity anyone adheres to - that is the least of my concerns for now, sorry.

I offer explanations in the light of the Grail Message so that you know what the Grail Message says and not to convert you.

Well there - I find the Grail Message quite insufficient in so many subjects, and that is why my concerns about crossbearers trying to redefine Christianity for Christians through the lenses of the Grail Message. You may decry that, but while I don't mean to be uncordial, you have yourself clearly said that "The Grail Message said nothing about Elijah". That is just an example of something that is fundamental to the Christian Faith, and if your worldview does not say anything about that important subject, it would be yet futile to argue back and forth on issues surrounding that personage.

I also want hear your views to educate myself more about the Christian world view but necessarily to convert.

I wouldn't waste my time - or yours. I deeply have the persuasion that discussing serious issues would have the potency to cause people to think deeply as well urge them possibly to conversion. There's no need to pretend here with nice remarks about non-conversions because quite the opposite is what many people on Nairaland demonstrate, whether they deny it or not. Yet, that is not to suggest that I am bent on forcefully converting anyone; although I yet would rejoice where that happens.

The more I know about Christianity, the easier it becomes for me to co-exist with Christains.

Okay.

Look at the quarrel on Nairaland alone. It is not funny because for you it may end on Nairaland; but some may take it deeper and actually go to harm others. I believe that if Mutalab have had to opportunity to actally know Christains and Americans, he would not have tried to blow them up. Ignorance and fear are the two major problems of the world, and I believe that peacefull dialogue can help in the eradication of ignorance and fear.

Outside of Nairaland, Mutalab was exposed to better opportunities of interacting with Christians - it was his own choice that he absolutely would NOT! A man who would not even be cordial to those he met if he saw they were women. In most people's mindset of such leanings, no amount of education, exposure or interactions would change anything.

But if you feel that there is no need for us to continue; then you have all the right in the world to walk out. Either way you chose, I wish you well.

It's your choice, actually - not mine. I already explained why this whole exercise is futile, which is that you hold very unbiblical views and indicate that you would not have a change of heart or perspectives if something is shown you to be the clear declaration of the Bible. Take the example of Elijah: is it not from that subject of reincarnation around him that brought us here? If you are persuaded that the Grail Message says nothing about Elijah, then what is the basis of your arguments in the first place?

Rather than it being my choice to 'walk out', it's obvious that the foundation of this thread is seriously in doubt. If you want a Biblical view of the Christian subjects you hope to discuss here, then the one thing I ask is that you stay with the Bible and throw your own personal opinions aside. As long as you want to keep up this back and forth of choosing what to go with and discarding what you don't like, nothing will be of benefit to you. If the subject is going to be beneficial to you, and you acknowledge that it is worthwhile to acknowledge its proper foundations on the BIBLE, then please stay on the BIBLE and not your own ideas. Or you can do the one thing left: just as well walk out and close the thread.

About Elijah. The Grail Message said nothing about Elijah; I have made it clear that Elijah is not John the baptise. I don't think that the actions of Elijah and Enoch are part of my spiritual life. Their actions are not part of my convictions as a crossbearer; therefore I leave them out of my argument. I know nothing about Elijah and Enuch.

Great - and where does that take us? Do you realise that those two names are germane to the very core concerns of this thread? If we therefore allow you to leave them out of your argument, would that not already be bending the rules?

Nobody says that either Elijah or Enoch has to be part of your spiritual life - nevermind the arrogance in that assumption. I could as well say that Abd-ru-shin is not part of any consequence of my spiritual life, so what's the big deal? If you would make any sense of the subjects you want to discuss, then learn to be quite accommodating and open to the core elements of what your discussants present. If you otherwise would rather not, then what benefit would you derive from all this?

Cheers.

@viaro

Your points are well taken. Thank you so much and

Cheers

m_nwankwo:

@Justcool
Hi Justcool. How are you? Thanks for the kind words. Your explanations on the evolution of spirit germs to human spirits is in my sensing according to the Truth. Also your explanation on  John the Baptist is also in accordance with the Truth. Thus there is no point for me to repeat the same thing fundamentally, albeit in different words. Be assured that I am following the thread and if I spiritually percieve a genuine need of somebody on nairaland, not necessarily among those who are participating in this thread to know exactly what happened to Elijah and the soul path of Elijah then I will gladly offer my perception.

As always I admire your insight into spiritual things and may God continue to give you wisdom. Stay blessed.

@m_nwankwo
Thank you so much. Please can you share your perception on the what happened with Elijah and the soul path of Elijah, with me. If you are not comfortable sharing it here, then here is my e-mail add: XXXXXXXXXXXX

I will delete this e-mail address from this post as soon as you get it, so please let me know when you get.

I cannot overstate how much I admire your maturity and spiritual knowledge.
Remain blessed too.

@Justcool

You can delete your email. I will send you a mail. Stay blessed.

m_nwankwo:

@Justcool

You can delete your email. I will send you a mail. Stay blessed.

Thanks

justcool:

@viaro

Your points are well taken. Thank you so much and

Cheers

Acknowledged. Enjoy.

Interesting! But really pointless.

I'll watch out for you, Justcool. You are quite mature!

Pls nuclear boy pls inbox ur email to me I wish to discuss somethings with u