isangjohnson:
[quote author=Penuelseun

Can't we do this thing without top balancing?
I'm not just comfortable with this balancing of cells.
If there is lithium battery that doesn't require balancing of cells, please let us know.
Until I see a lithium battery someone fixed and stayed for two to three years without balancing anything, I'll continue with my 50% DOD battery.

To can always get a server rack (ready made) lifePo4 battery which come ready to use.

Top balancing can be quite delicate and requires some reading and configuration setup. Generally lifePo4 has a higher and steeper learning curve compared lead acid. But it is still worth it in the end. The DIY route is not for everyone very little room for error.

The biggest advantage of lifePo4 over lead acid is not the cycle or discharge depth. lifePo4 recommended discharge is 80%.

The best thing about lifePo4 is the ability to leave it for a long time in partial state of charge. This makes it perfect for solar application because unlike lead acid which needs to be 100 top charged almost all the time - when I was starting my solar journey with just 800w panels I would on a bad day turn off the load to prioritise battery getting fully charged. , lifePo4 actually prefers to be in partial state of charge. What this means on difficult solar months like July and August, you aren't under pressure to have your battery fully charged. It can be cycled to 70% or less without issues.

This brings to the next issue with lead acid. The charge rate of most lead acid is very low. My 9kwh tubular battery as a recommended charge rate of c20 which for my 200ah bank is 20A. My solar panel can deliver over 50A but my battery can only take 20A. Hence if I deplate battery down to 80% dod, it would take 2 sometimes 3 days to fully charge not because I don't have solar capacity but because my battery is inefficient and can only take so much charge.

Lead acid charge rate gets worse at absorption I have to suffer through 3 hours of absorption where current is tapered down to 10A sometimes 5A (even though my panels can push over 50A).

What all this means is that with lead acid especially flooded, you are limited sometimes not by your solar potential but by your battery ability to take charge.

Lithium can be charged at C1 which in my case means I can push all 50A to my lithium. So lithium ability to fast charge which again is perfect for solar application.

Add the ability to use the battery for 10 years when cycled to 0% and you would not mind putting up with the initial learn curve for lithium.

[quote author=bigrovar post=111928109][/quote]

This your post is very biased, there is no dispute that lithium is the new baby in town, but don't disuade people from options they have.
First your statement above 800w solar system you want to push 50amps how ?..

All you described above is under panel size and you know it.

Lithium is great, but every one keeps saying the same thing. Pls be balanced. The only disadvantage of lithium which no one likes saying especially we wey dey naija na price....

Now someone will quote and say you can discharge lithium to 80%, you cant try that with lead, so it is cheaper. Why will I want to discharge batteries every time to this DOD, my battery bank is not adequate. Someone will say lithium loves to be discharged, everyone on this forum that have started their solar journey has an inbuilt fear of DOD. You should na money be batteries. Cycle life in batteries for both lithium or lead is what determines how long your batteries go stay.

It is comfort everyone dey find.
The best scenario either lithium or lead is to have a big enough and adequate bank size and have a reasonable amount of solar panels to charge it.
You mentioned you will be struggling to charge your batteries on a rainy day so you switch off for it to charge... Haha.! You know.
Both batteries and panels should be expanded to accommodate this.
Both lead acid and lithium are okay, they have their disadvantages and advantages,

Lithium is the future.
Lead acid is ok

Team tubular,

isangjohnson:
[quote author=Penuelseun

Can't we do this thing without top balancing?
I'm not just comfortable with this balancing of cells.
If there is lithium battery that doesn't require balancing of cells, please let us know.
Until I see a lithium battery someone fixed and stayed for two to three years without balancing anything, I'll continue with my 50% DOD battery.

Ordinary top balance
Even connecting 4 psc in parallel for some days depending on battery size will balance up with charging. You do this just to make all 4 exactly the same voltage. No approximations..... Hope you know that your 200amp battery at 50@% DOD is actually 100amp?

samnaija:


This your post is very biased, there is no dispute that lithium is the new baby in town, but don't disuade people from options they have.
First your statement above 800w solar system you want to push 50amps how ?..

All you described above is under panel size and you know it.

Lithium is great, but every one keeps saying the same thing. Pls be balanced. The only disadvantage of lithium which no one likes saying especially we wey dey naija na price....

Now someone will quote and say you can discharge lithium to 80%, you cant try that with lead, so it is cheaper. Why will I want to discharge batteries every time to this DOD, my battery bank is not adequate. Someone will say lithium loves to be discharged, everyone on this forum that have started their solar journey has an inbuilt fear of DOD. You should na money be batteries. Cycle life in batteries for both lithium or lead is what determines how long your batteries go stay.

It is comfort everyone dey find.
The best scenario either lithium or lead is to have a big enough and adequate bank size and have a reasonable amount of solar panels to charge it.
You mentioned you will be struggling to charge your batteries on a rainy day so you switch off for it to charge... Haha.! You know.
Both batteries and panels should be expanded to accommodate this.
Both lead acid and lithium are okay, they have their disadvantages and advantages,

Lithium is the future.
Lead acid is ok

Team tubular,

You have not provided any fact to back up your point, just like be pointed out, charging time, C-Rate, efficiency (meaning you harvest 1000wh energy the battery takes 970wh) unlike Lead acid that waste your harvest due to poor efficiency.

I use my 80 to 90% of my 5kwh bank without and fears
See the screenshot below, you can see my SOC another advantage, at 21% SOC check cell difference, Also the the Kind of Load I can throw at it regardless of the SOC, Observe the voltage drop only 0.3V.

If you have an existing set up with Lead acid, my message is not for you, it's only for those starting afresh.

samnaija:


This your post is very biased, there is no dispute that lithium is the new baby in town, but don't disuade people from options they have.

Disuade Ke? Are we kids here or did I threaten anyone. I just stated my truth and what works for me. Everyone is free to make their decision. Just be comfortable with it

First your statement above 800w solar system you want to push 50amps how ?..

All you described above is under panel size and you know it.

"When I started my solar journey" check my profile for my current panel capacity. And yes I fear of leaving my battery in partial state of discharge forces me (then) to have to prioritise a full charge causing me to turn off load if I don't have sufficient solar supply. Lithium doesn't have that problem I can leave it at 60% charge for the next 8 years and it would even be better for it.

Now a days my problem is reversed. I have more solar potential than my battery can take causing me to waste lots of energy even as my battery struggle to fully charge.

Lithium is great, but every one keeps saying the same thing. Pls be balanced. The only disadvantage of lithium which no one likes saying especially we wey dey naija na price....

Now someone will quote and say you can discharge lithium to 80%, you cant try that with lead, so it is cheaper. Why will I want to discharge batteries every time to this DOD, my battery bank is not adequate. Someone will say lithium loves to be discharged, everyone on this forum that have started their solar journey has an inbuilt fear of DOD. You should na money be batteries. Cycle life in batteries for both lithium or lead is what determines how long your batteries go stay.

Bros build according to your budget and what you can spare. I used lead acid till now and it served me well. My first 2 tubular batteries served me for 3 years under careful management. The current battery is now at 3 years and still has most of its capacity when I last did a capacity test. Lead Acid is good but it can nolonger meet my need. I find that lifePo4 is on per with *premium* lead acid (likes of fullriver DC, Trojan AGM, etc) especially if you go the DIY route. And it would serve better. But if your budget is tubular and it serves you well. Please continue using what works for you.

It is comfort everyone dey find.
The best scenario either lithium or lead is to have a big enough and adequate bank size and have a reasonable amount of solar panels to charge it.
You mentioned you will be struggling to charge your batteries on a rainy day so you switch off for it to charge... Haha.! You know.
Both batteries and panels should be expanded to accommodate this.
Both lead acid and lithium are okay, they have their disadvantages and advantages,

Lithium is the future.
Lead acid is ok

Racking up lead acid would not solve the slow charge problem. Like I said when designing your system. Don't use your battery or solar panel capacity to determine your daily load. Rather use your battery C rating. Tubular has a recommended charge rate of C20 this means even if your panels is 2million watt if you have say a 400Ah tubular battery, you can only use 40A to charge it. Anything above 40 and it get wasted as heat (reducing its lifespan). That 40A is even best case scenario because once it gets to absorption, it would cut down on current by as much as 50 to 80% taking sometimes 8A from your panel to complete charge and it can be like that for 3 hours. We have just 6 usable sun hours (on a good day) in Nigeria so do the maths. If you have your battery constantly monitored you will struggle for a full charge.

I am not discouraging LA. Just stating the fact to help people properly design their system so it can last. The more your battery last the more you have your ROI.

I currently leave completely offgrid no NEPA connection at all. My solar capacity is 3kw, battery is 200AH 48v. Even though my panel can provide me 50A and can theoretically charge my bank in 4 hours (say 5 hours) The tubular chemistry means that it would take 2 to 3 days to fully charge that battery.

Bulk charge at 40A would take close to 4 hours after which it would switch to absorption.. thus limiting the current going to the battery by as much as 10A. And it can do it his for 3 to 4 hours depending on discharge.. effective sunlight is done by 4PM.. remember this is an active system and I have loads connected to it.

Over night I will draw down the battery again from the partial state I left the night before.. starting from a low position.. again battery slow charge would mean I may never finish charging it again in day two cause battery can't take all I have to give.

I can not expand my panel to 5kw cause my battery would not be able to take most of it so it would be a waste. This slow charge for me is the biggest problem LA has. That and partial state of discharge problem.

samnaija:


.

Lithium is great, but every one keeps saying the same thing. Pls be balanced. The only disadvantage of lithium which no one likes saying especially we wey dey naija na price....


Both lead acid and lithium are okay, they have their disadvantages and advantages,

Lithium is the future.
Lead acid is ok

Team tubular,

If you do the maths putting cycle life, safe DOD, and C rates into consideration you will find that lithium is way cheaper than lead acid.

I have been using lithium over 2 years now and my cells still give me the same performance that I had from Day 1. My logs will tell you that I put my cells to low DOD but they are still bouncing. Some here have been using theirs for way more that 2 years..... I won't call that the future.

The only thought that came to me after I started using lithium was that I wish I started using it earlier and save some money I wasted on LA, but again maybe I will not have appreciated the difference over LA that much.

Ultimately each person with his own choices but there is enough information here for anyone who cares to be informed!

lifepo4 lithium is sweet . currently top balancing and pumping in over 60A @ 3.6V.. make una bring money Eve 105ah 37k each, Great power 100ah 35k each. Brand new grade A lifepo4 lithium. busbar & screw available. buy and couple by yourself, no box or bms included

---

selling as 4pcs(12v) 8pcs(24v)16pcs (48v)

---

cell are available in mushin lagos state and yenagoa bayelsa state
whatsapp 0802-057-4628.

ojeysky:


If you do the maths putting cycle life, safe DOD, and C rates into consideration you will find that lithium is way cheaper than lead acid.

I have been using lithium over 2 years now and my cells still give me the same performance that I had from Day 1. My logs will tell you that I put my cells to low DOD but they are still bouncing. Some here have been using theirs for way more that 2 years..... I won't call that the future.

The only thought that came to me after I started using lithium was that I wish I started using it earlier and save some money I wasted on LA, but again maybe I will not have appreciated the difference over LA that much.

Ultimately each person with his own choices but there is enough information here for anyone who cares to be informed!

Sometimes, I am just confused. What is the reason for the back and forth banter? Is it only Nigerians or it is the same world over. Someone posted is own opinion, suddenly it becomes a debate.

Most times people are advised to buy Lithium if they can afford it, otherwise buy LA while they plan for the upgrade in future.

May be the counter voices are dealers and are not happy with the reviews as it is not good for their business.

microgiant:


Sometimes, I am just confused. What is the reason for the back and forth banter? Is it only Nigerians or it is the same world over. Someone posted is own opinion, suddenly it becomes a debate.

Most times people are advised to buy Lithium if they can afford it, otherwise buy LA while they plan for the upgrade in future.


The same way someone here criticized brands because he has few cells to sell.

May be the counter voices are dealers and are not happy with the reviews as it is not good for their business.

The same way someone here criticized brands because he has few cells to sell.

microgiant:


Sometimes, I am just confused. What is the reason for the back and forth banter? Is it only Nigerians or it is the same world over. Someone posted is own opinion, suddenly it becomes a debate.

Most times people are advised to buy Lithium if they can afford it, otherwise buy LA while they plan for the upgrade in future.

May be the counter voices are dealers and are not happy with the reviews as it is not good for their business.

The purpose here is to educate people who are just getting started, so they don't make mistake most users here made.. it's a discussion forum, debate is allowed

Considering all the factors, it's better to pay 2 times for batteries that will last 10 years+, example I arrange 12V 105A LFP for 150K
Compare it to LA that is 80K at the moment, do you know what the price will be in 5 years?

Just 5 years ago LA was around 80K for 200AH, now we all know the story..

Someone posted dis in a Whatsapp group, how viable is it?
Cos am certain a 40amps battery can't do half of the above mentioned

Hollawayn05:
Someone posted dis in a Whatsapp group, how viable is it?
Cos am certain a 40amps battery can't do half of the above mentioned

Probably running off solar most of the day.
But even though

Hollawayn05:
Someone posted dis in a Whatsapp group, how viable is it?
Cos am certain a 40amps battery can't do half of the above mentioned

It's a good starting point.

For you to understand I need to go a little bit technically, if this is OFF Grid, that is no Nepa.

Generation is the key, you can only generate 400wh to 800wh..

Base your usage on the energy production, 500wh average, this mean on Daily basis
50w of load for 8 hours OR 25w of load for 16 hours. Basically depending on the load.

AkoEja:


Yohako is a company that deceives. I bought a 2kva solar generator from them. They worote on the front that it has 110AH Lithium battery, but when I opened it, it contains only a Gel Cell lead acid battery. This Lithium battery you are selling I doubt if it's really Lithium, coming from Yohako. I will never buy any product from them again

@primefaith1, this was the post that made me tag yohako as unscrupulous, just like felicity

earthrealm:


Why not buy a higher amperage charger for top balancing, a single 280ah cell usually ships abt half full. So u need to add 140 to 170amps. A 10amps charger will take 17 to 20hrs to do this for 1 single cell...then assume you have 16 cells for a 48v pack?....you are looking at over 2wks o.ie assuming you have power 247

Someone here advertised a 50amp charger, for top balancing some time ago, i think its Valto....it will seriously shorten this time by 500%.

earthrealm:


@primefaith1, this was the post that made me tag yohako as unscrupulous, just like felicity

Yohako has no influence on people rebranding or giving false specifications on their products.

Didn't you also see where I responded the poster too?

All the same keep clapping for yourself because you want to sell some few cells.

Learn how to be a good salesman.

I wish you good luck.

Hello seniors, can more details and experience be shared for us upcoming in making informed choice concerning these lithium batteries. what are the preference between the 18650 battery as park AND Eve lithium lifepo4 battery as pack. e.g 12v 100ah made by lithium battery of the two types.
I know there is clear difference in weight and dimension size but why is one better than the other?

bigrovar:
I currently leave completely offgrid no NEPA connection at all. My solar capacity is 3kw, battery is 200AH 48v. Even though my panel can provide me 50A and can theoretically charge my bank in 4 hours (say 5 hours) The tubular chemistry means that it would take 2 to 3 days to fully charge that battery.

Bulk charge at 40A would take close to 4 hours after which it would switch to absorption.. thus limiting the current going to the battery by as much as 10A. And it can do it his for 3 to 4 hours depending on discharge.. effective sunlight is done by 4PM.. remember this is an active system and I have loads connected to it.

Over night I will draw down the battery again from the partial state I left the night before.. starting from a low position.. again battery slow charge would mean I may never finish charging it again in day two cause battery can't take all I have to give.

I can not expand my panel to 5kw cause my battery would not be able to take most of it so it would be a waste. This slow charge for me is the biggest problem LA has. That and partial state of discharge problem.

Lol when I started my solar journey, I designed my system after yours. Although you've upgraded I'm still using my ipowerplus 24v 3kva and 2 tubular batteries. From my experience and forums I've checked this C20 charging has always been the rule but when I saw how much power I was wasting from my installed 2720w panels, I increased the charge controller amps to 100amps. Yes I decided to offer my batteries as an experiment as I've yet to see where overcharging killed tubular batteries. I have been using it like this for over 1 year and specific gravity is still good on all cells. Increasing the amps helped with using heavy loads like microwave and inverter ac as with the initial C20 limit, you can't run those loads while battery is charging. The only disadvantage for now is smell of the hydrogen and increased rate of topping up battery water of 2 months interval which is OK by me. If batteries die, then lithium it is. But for now I'm liking my tubular with increase charging amps

earthrealm:


Someone here advertised a 50amp charger, for top balancing some time ago, i think its Valto....it will seriously shorten this time by 500%.

not available at the moment. meanwhile, only lithium can do this.. 62A charge on a 100ah 12V Lifepo4 battery pack.

Valto:
not available at the moment. meanwhile, only lithium can do this.. 62A charge on a 100ah 12V Lifepo4 battery pack.

Marketer, lol

Is the 4pcs of 105ah 38k or what? Explain yourself better


...

Valto:
lifepo4 lithium is sweet . currently top balancing and pumping in over 60A @ 3.6V.. make una bring money Eve 105ah 38k each, Great power 100ah 36k each. Brand new grade A lifepo4 lithium. busbar & screw available. buy and couple by yourself, no box or bms included

---

selling as 4pcs(12v) 8pcs(24v)16pcs (48v)

---

cell are available in mushin lagos state and yenagoa bayelsa state
whatsapp 0802-057-4628.

felaliveson:
Is the 4pcs of 105ah 38k or what? Explain yourself better


...

38k for 1, 152k for 4

Namzy:

Lol when I started my solar journey, I designed my system after yours. Although you've upgraded I'm still using my ipowerplus 24v 3kva and 2 tubular batteries. From my experience and forums I've checked this C20 charging has always been the rule but when I saw how much power I was wasting from my installed 2720w panels, I increased the charge controller amps to 100amps. Yes I decided to offer my batteries as an experiment as I've yet to see where overcharging killed tubular batteries. I have been using it like this for over 1 year and specific gravity is still good on all cells. Increasing the amps helped with using heavy loads like microwave and inverter ac as with the initial C20 limit, you can't run those loads while battery is charging. The only disadvantage for now is smell of the hydrogen and increased rate of topping up battery water of 2 months interval which is OK by me. If batteries die, then lithium it is. But for now I'm liking my tubular with increase charging amps

One thing is that, when it will die it won't give u notice. At first u will think ur inverter has issues. Lets see how it goes by January, 2023 at this mode. Monitoring spirit activated.

Penuelseun:
38k for 1, 152k for 4

Una no wan make we join the LifePo3 team… This your price is equivalent to a 1.5 inverter and a 150amp luminous battery


…

dollarnaira:


One thing is that, when it will die it won't give u notice. At first u will think ur inverter has issues. Lets see how it goes by January, 2023 at this mode. Monitoring spirit activated.

Lol like I said it's just speculation because I doubt whether you've seen overcharging kill a tubular battery. You can check the health of tubular batteries using specific gravity which has been great so far. I'll definitely update come January 2023.
P.S my lowest SOC has been about 60% and according to my bmv battery monitor. My battery has been cycled once

Which BMS was stated in your pictures?

Dam5reey:



See the screenshot below, you can see my SOC another advantage, at 21% SOC check cell difference, Also the the Kind of Load I can throw at it regardless of the SOC, Observe the voltage drop only 0.3V.

olopan:
Which BMS was stated in your pictures?

Daly BMS

felaliveson:


Una no wan make we join the LifePo3 team… This your price is equivalent to a 1.5 inverter and a 150amp luminous battery


…

note: no:1, my cells are brand new grade A, not used/refurbished/salvaged.
no:2, lifepo4 lithium is not for everyone, u can always step in when u are ready.
no:3, real capacity lifepo4 lithium packs are not cheap, most of the ones in Nigerian market are not up to declared capacity and some are used cells.

felaliveson:


What are your basic lightening


…

five 5watts lead bulbs
18-35w Dc ceiling fan
35w DC led TV and
12w gotv decoder

Not all these are on at the same

Does anyone here have Victron bmv 712 smart battery monitor for sale?

Namzy:

Lol when I started my solar journey, I designed my system after yours. Although you've upgraded I'm still using my ipowerplus 24v 3kva and 2 tubular batteries. From my experience and forums I've checked this C20 charging has always been the rule but when I saw how much power I was wasting from my installed 2720w panels, I increased the charge controller amps to 100amps. Yes I decided to offer my batteries as an experiment as I've yet to see where overcharging killed tubular batteries. I have been using it like this for over 1 year and specific gravity is still good on all cells. Increasing the amps helped with using heavy loads like microwave and inverter ac as with the initial C20 limit, you can't run those loads while battery is charging. The only disadvantage for now is smell of the hydrogen and increased rate of topping up battery water of 2 months interval which is OK by me. If batteries die, then lithium it is. But for now I'm liking my tubular with increase charging amps

The high C rate charge won't kill the battery over night. Flooded batteries are quite resilient, however just know that most of the 100A you are pumping into the battery will be converted as heat. Lead Acid just can't process all of it as stored energy. Remember that batteries are essentially chemical energy. The composition of Lead Acid with electrolyte can only optimally process C20 anything about that is converted to heat and will gradually degrade the lead which will shorten the life of the battery.

I had a system I use in managing my 4 x 200AH Index tubular. The goal is to make my consumption generally very efficient such that my over night use is about 45% DoD. I then have an over sized panel set at 3000w. This ensures that as day breaks and the panels start charging.. slowly ramping up .. the amount of energy pumped to the battery from 3000w panel leaves bulk by 11am (due to relatively low battery depth of discharge) and by the time solar panels are at peak generation, battery is on absorption and CC is cutting back on the amount of currents going to the battery. This ensures that I maintain a safe charge limit for the battery.

This strategy however needs my night discharge to be low. It worked for me though for over 5 years.

Namzy:

Lol like I said it's just speculation because I doubt whether you've seen overcharging kill a tubular battery. You can check the health of tubular batteries using specific gravity which has been great so far. I'll definitely update come January 2023.
P.S my lowest SOC has been about 60% and according to my bmv battery monitor. My battery has been cycled once

True but gravity won't tell you the state of the lead and if they are being degraded. You will have high gravity from your hydrometer but that's just half the story.