Grid tie is used when there is need to feedback to the grid esp during excess generation. In this arrangement, when there is less generation, the deficit is gotten from the grid while when the is excess generation, the extra is feed to the grid and the person gets credit from the utility company which he can consume later during deficit or paid in some other form.....not applicable to Nigeria but countries like Australia

Barezzi:


Grid-tie to the "AC out" of his bi-directional inverter-charger.
This creates a micro grid that the grid-tie inverter will synchronize with.

Should slightly be tilted towards south(6°) , find a way to make this happen esp as ur panel is just 1...u want to get as much power as possible.. Also use thick cables to reduce losses.

Feshizzy:
Good day everyone,

Abeg make una help me out!

We got one 250w 24v mono solar panel
With a pwm solar CC,

Because of how the roof is,
It is facing the east,

And at 2:00Pm it was producing 1.4ah when we checked the CC,

Please note the battery on the inverter was very very low,

Please any possible way to optimise more abit?

Barezzi:


Grid-tie to the "AC out" of his bi-directional inverter-charger.
This creates a micro grid that the grid-tie inverter will synchronize with.

This is called "AC Coupling"....thanks Barezzi

DMerciful:
Grid tie is used when there is need to feedback to the grid esp during excess generation. In this arrangement, when there is less generation, the deficit is gotten from the grid while when the is excess generation, the extra is feed to the grid and the person gets credit from the utility company which he can consume later during deficit or paid in some other form.....not applicable to Nigeria but countries like Australia

The keyword here from Barezzi is "microgrid" and not the national grid. The overall efficiency of AC coupled systems, especially when microinverters are used, are in the high 90% and is suitable when you have high daytime AC loads to run.

DMerciful:
Grid tie is used when there is need to feedback to the grid esp during excess generation. In this arrangement, when there is less generation, the deficit is gotten from the grid while when the is excess generation, the extra is feed to the grid and the person gets credit from the utility company which he can consume later during deficit or paid in some other form.....not applicable to Nigeria but countries like Australia

This is patently untrue egbon...
Grid-tie/Hybrid inverters can be used with or without back feeding to grid. It is not the only reason why most folks purchase them.

You grid-tie when most of your loads are consumed during the day. The PV inverter converts DC to AC which is then consumed immediately.
Later at night, your stand alone inverter inverts DC from the batteries to AC to feed night time loads.

The point i'm trying to make is if one has a large PV array, it doesn't make sense to also build a large battery bank.
Unless such an individual's night time loads are huge.

I have a a keen interest in solar energy since the first day i stumbled upon this thread. Thank you all for the info on solar. I want to start using solar to power my appliances and i would be grateful for some pointers. I want start small and make add-ons as and when funds are available.
For starters i want to start with the following:
1. 5 6W bulbs (on for 12 hrs)
2. 8 6W bulbs (on for 4 hrs cumulatively)
3. 1 Led Tv 90W (on for 4hrs)
4. 2 fans (on 8hrs)
5. Charge phones
What do i need to start the solar journey.
Thank you for your time.

My Guy, grid tie is different from micro inverters. what you described is micro inverters where every panel has its own micro inverter and combined to power the house loads directly. grid tie as the name suggest is meant to work with the grid. Also about a large battery bank, irrespective of your panel array capacity, the sunlight intensity variation determines also if your bank should be big or small. A person in the North can have a small bank as sun intensity from sunrise to sunset is quite constant unlike southern Nigeria especially the freshwater swamp where there is appreciable cloud covers on a daily basis and even very dull weather for days, you dont want to make massive investment that doesnt work sometimes no matter how few.
Hybrid inverters are those with inbuilt charge controllers

Barezzi:

This is patently untrue egbon...
Grid-tie/Hybrid inverters can be used with or without back feeding to grid. It is not the only reason why most folks purchase them.

You grid-tie when most of your loads are consumed during the day. The PV inverter converts DC to AC which is then consumed immediately.
Later at night, your stand alone inverter inverts DC from the batteries to AC to feed night time loads.

The point i'm trying to make is if one has a large PV array, it doesn't make sense to also build a large battery bank.
Unless such an individual's night time loads are huge.

nene2016:
I have a a keen interest in solar energy since the first day i stumbled upon this thread. Thank you all for the info on solar. I want to start using solar to power my appliances and i would be grateful for some pointers. I want start small and make add-ons as and when funds are available.
For starters i want to start with the following:
1. 5 6W bulbs (on for 12 hrs)
2. 8 6W bulbs (on for 4 hrs cumulatively)
3. 1 Led Tv 90W (on for 4hrs)
4. 2 fans (on 8hrs)
5. Charge phones
What do i need to start the solar journey.
Thank you for your time.

I suggest you go through the thread from Page 1 and you will have the answer you seek.

Micro inverters are different from grid tie inverters. grid tie inverters are different from offgird inverters. Hybrid inverters are different from standalone inverters. high frequency inverters are different from low freq inverters, transformer inverters are different from transformerless. Lets not mix grid-tie and micro inverters...they are very different

jazzman2:


The keyword here from Barezzi is "microgrid" and not the national grid. The overall efficiency of AC coupled systems, especially when microinverters are used, are in the high 90% and is suitable when you have high daytime AC loads to run.

DMerciful:
My Guy, grid tie is different from micro inverters. what you described is micro inverters where every panel has its own micro inverter and combined to power the house loads directly. grid tie as the name suggest is meant to work with the grid. Also about a large battery bank, irrespective of your panel array capacity, the sunlight intensity variation determines also if your bank should be big or small. A person in the North can have a small bank as sun intensity from sunrise to sunset is quite constant unlike southern Nigeria especially the freshwater swamp where there is appreciable cloud covers on a daily basis and even very dull weather for days, you dont want to make massive investment that doesnt work sometimes no matter how few.
Hybrid inverters are those with inbuilt charge controllers

Na you dey call Micro inverters. I never mentioned it.
You CAN connect a grid tie inverter to the output of a bi directional stand alone inverter/charger. This forms a micro grid... So irrespective of what happens to the national grid, the grid tie inverter will still stay synchronised with the stand alone inverter.
You don't need NEPA to use a grid tie inverter.

Thank you.

DUNKA:
I suggest you go through the thread from Page 1 and you will have the answer you seek.

DMerciful:
Micro inverters are different from grid tie inverters. grid tie inverters are different from offgird inverters. Hybrid inverters are different from standalone inverters. high frequency inverters are different from low freq inverters, transformer inverters are different from transformerless. Lets not mix grid-tie and micro inverters...they are very different

The microinverter I mentioned here is just an example. There are many inverters out there than can AC couple with a bi-directional inverter charger and they all have 1 common identity as grid-tie inverters. The microinverter I mentioned was to emphasize the high overall energy conversion efficiency of AC coupled system if your load is entirely or mostly daytime AC. Grid-tie does not mean grid sell back capability but the ability to synchronise with any grid, micro (local) grid or national grid. The sell back function is only a by-product of the grid tie: whenever there is excess PV generation than is consumed, the national grid can then become the reservoir to dump that excess energy becos someone on that grid is available to use it. In the other case for a local grid or micro-grid: if your local grid network is as large as a small town, like in certain small islands in the Caribbeans, that are 100% solar dependent, the excess energy can be dumped or sold back to the local grid. However if ur micro grid is just your house, then the excess energy must be dealt with properly. If not your battery voltage will continue to rise due to unregulated bi-directional charging by the H-bridge (or bi-directional) inverter-charger, and the batteries will get destroyed at some point. Gridtie inverters are current sources and will continue to drive excess PV energy through your system. At the point where your batteries are full and u have excess PV energy, there must be a mechanism to either shutdown the PV and/or divert the excess energy into a dump load.

Kindly recheck these inverters and be specific. Grid tie is grid tie and micro inverter is micro inverter....different

jazzman2:

The microinverter I mentioned here is just an example. There are many inverters out there than can AC couple with a bi-directional inverter charger and they all have 1 common identity as grid-tie inverters. The microinverter I mentioned was to emphasize the high overall energy conversion efficiency of AC coupled system if your load is entirely or mostly daytime AC.

Feshizzy:
Good day everyone,

Abeg make una help me out!

We got one 250w 24v mono solar panel
With a pwm solar CC,

Because of how the roof is,
It is facing the east,

And at 2:00Pm it was producing 1.4ah when we checked the CC,

Please note the battery on the inverter was very very low,

Please any possible way to optimise more abit?

welcome to the forum.
on ur question, it is a pity the information u provided is still scanty. u need to do more.

eg. cable size, make of PWM, ba3 type/bank @ 12/24/48 etc, inverter type. it is a DIY setup etc etc.

how did you size ur bank & refill it up at sunrise before complaining the ba3/inverter indicating low voltage quickly.

mind you with little patience u get help soon ( b/cos u have 3 groups in the house- the DIYs like me, professionals, &marketers)

the DIYs are always ready to help base on their knowledge/limit of experience.

the professionals are simply tired of helping or are keeping certain basic info as trade secrets.

finally, marketers are there for all with after sales advises.

if you're convinced you're not getting enough from the house, pls check YouTube there u have thousands of video on various topics on solar. enter ur comments/questions, ur sure to get help.

cheers!

If there is no grid...there are better designs to use than grid tie inverter(its like using helicopter to go to church ). Grid tie inverters are expensive and using it for basic purposes that can 100% be fulfilled by normal inverter is not cost effective. Gird tie inverter is not applicable in Nigeria.....using it is just for sensation in my own opinion

Barezzi:


Na you dey call Micro inverters. I never mentioned it.
You CAN connect a grid tie inverter to the output of a bi directional stand alone inverter/charger. This forms a micro grid... So irrespective of what happens to the national grid, the grid tie inverter will still stay synchronised with the stand alone inverter.
You don't need NEPA to use a grid tie inverter.

kiekie,
mctrinity,
obimind,
earthrealm,
babaegun,
bigrovar,
mcci,
juo,
saipro,
dmerciful,
barezzi,
efuro,
dunka,
all,

thanks for the kind words. i am indeed overwhelmed.
as you can imagine, it's been a very busy time for me especially this weekend.
i will now attempt to answer your questions and queries - in no particular order.

DMerciful:
If there is no grid...there are better designs to use than grid tie inverter(its like using helicopter to go to church ). Grid tie inverters are expensive and using it for basic purposes that can 100% be fulfilled by normal inverter is not cost effective. Gird tie inverter is not applicable in Nigeria.....using it is just for sensation in my own opinion

with plenty YouTube videos I have watched both of u have valid points. in Nigeria buying sophisicated grid tied inverters in order to roll back NEPA rates on your meter is useless. So the so called grid tie inverters is just to change over to NEPA where conditions are sufficient.

with technology we now have cross over factor whether transformerless or not they're becoming intelligent & more reliable.

DMerciful:
If there is no grid...there are better designs to use than grid tie inverter(its like using helicopter to go to church

It's like driving a Peugeot 504 in 2017 cos you don't wanna depart from tradition
Look up "AC coupling" bro, it's a more efficient setup for those with high daytime loads.

DMerciful:
Kindly recheck these inverters and be specific. Grid tie is grid tie and micro inverter is micro inverter....different

Pls Sir, do some research. You are completely wrong, all microinverters in the market today are gridtie inverters also. Check out this link:
https://www.solar-electric.com/residential/inverters/grid-tie-inverters.html

earthrealm:
@georged1, very sweet set up.
kindly state your total panel wattage for both north and south side, and your battery bank.am assumming ur morning star cc are both 80amps?
your battery bank still trojans?.
now that you didnt go ahead with the adjustable legs, would you still ur panel inclination 10/10?
i can see your roof isnt so step...maybe 20deg or so -- thinking you shudnt hv even bothered with the adjustable legs in the first place

earthrealm,
total panel wattage is 7,560w from a total of 24 units of solarworld mono 315w modules
array was split into two equal halves: 12 units on the south side, and 12 units on the north side
i'm still using my original 60a tristar mppt charge controllers but monitoring reports seem to suggest they are too
small for the array size. at maximum 3200w and 60a, the current limit alarm comes up and the cc starts clipping
the output/charging current. going forward, i may have to replace the 60a tristars with higher capacity charge controllers.
this will be the subject of another upgrade.

my battery bank is made up of 12pcs 260ah zenith agm batteries making a total of 780ah at 48v nominal system voltage.
thanks to my oversized solar array and use of battery life saver (bls) these batteries continue to provide reliable service even
after 4yrs of use.

the adjustable legs turned out to be unnecessary. my roof inclination is just 15 degrees which is very much in line with the
recommended solar panel orientation for the tropics. also, mounting the second set of panels facing north is a strategic way
of positioning them for maximum harvest in the summer months which we are in. interestingly, my tristar performance
data suggests that the north facing panels seem to be doing better than those facing south!

http://solarelectricityhandbook.com/solar-angle-calculator.html

efuro:


with plenty YouTube videos I have watched both of u have valid points. in Nigeria buying sophisicated grid tied inverters in order to roll back NEPA rates on your meter is useless. So the so called grid tie inverters is just to change over to NEPA where conditions are sufficient.

with technology we now have cross over factor whether transformerless or not they're becoming intelligent & more reliable.

Sir, I never implied that the sole aim of using gridtie inverters is to roll back NEPA rates. In fact, I mentioned that grid tie does not necessarily mean sell back to grid. I am trying to highlight the high energy conversion efficiency of using gridtie inverters off grid that are AC coupled to bi-directional inverter chargers if the primary loads are daytime AC loads. Pls don't mid-interprete my words. Thanks

bigrovar:

Your strong advocacy and time you take to stabilise us newbies is what gaves us the confidence to take the renewable leap. Keep the flag flying.

My question is what influenced the decision to install panel on the north side? Is it a case of available space? I ask because since Nigeria above the equator I have always thought and in line with what I have read that panels in Nigeria should be inclined towards south. Would appreciate your thoughts.

Also are the controllers charging different banks or the same battery bank.

bigrovar,
like i said in my reply to earthream, it is a calculated attempt to obtain maximum yield in the summer
months and the readings on my cc seem to be proving me right. although again, space availability had a part
to play in my decisions. if you check my south side pictures, you will notice that the roof is almost filled up facing
south.

its like getting the best of both worlds, in the sense that while the north facing panels will give me optimum harvest
during the summer months, the south side will kick in and take over the show during the winter/harmattan times
of the year.

yes, the charge controllers are both connected to same battery bank.

mcci:


@GeogeD1, Weldone and congrats.
Please in addition to questions already asked what configuration did you use 3x4 or 2x6 for such high watt panel?

mcci,
the panels are in 3 x 4 configuration making a total of 12 units for both sides.

JUO:
congratulations big Bros on your upgrade . I visited during installation. Thanks for being there for us all

brother,
your presence was highly appreciated. we should hook up more sometime

Chairman,

Read your link very well and be calibrated. Like i said previously, do more research on what a grid means and where to use grid-tie. I have done this research but just for knowledge sharing, a panel with a micro inverter attached converts the panel DC voltage to AC. This AC is transported to the grid-tie inverter. The grid tie powers the house loads and feeds the excess to the grid while when the panel is not generating enuf, collects the deficit from the grid however it is used in a situation where there is constant grid power. the wisdom behind this arrangement is for cost savings as you can sell to the grid as well as not needing backup batteries. If you must have backup batteries then you will need to incorporate offgid inverter. Mind you, you dont need charge controllers in this case. Solar utility companies use the grid tie/micro inverters most especially

jazzman2:

Pls Sir, do some research. You are completely wrong, all microinverters in the market today are gridtie inverters also. Check out this link:
https://www.solar-electric.com/residential/inverters/grid-tie-inverters.html

Try to get a grid-tie inverter without a battery bank in Nigeria and tell the forum how the system performs. I will be more than happy to reapply

jazzman2:

Sir, I never implied that the sole aim of using gridtie inverters is to roll back NEPA rates. In fact, I mentioned that grid tie does not necessarily mean sell back to grid. I am trying to highlight the high energy conversion efficiency of using gridtie inverters off grid that are AC coupled to bi-directional inverter chargers if the primary loads are daytime AC loads. Pls don't mid-interprete my words. Thanks

DMerciful:
Oga GeorgeD1
From my count these are 315W x 24pcs amounting to 7569W ! My question is do you intend to power houses adjacent to yours, the whole compound else how do you intend to have a good capacity utilization? Kudos once again.

dmerciful,
lolz. definitely not.

7560w may appear to be a lot of power for a single household but i assure you it is still not enough to distribute
to adjoining houses unless you plan on growing grey hairs overnight. those guys will suck out your battery bank
with power guzzling devices and you will constantly run on red night after night. not to mention the constant
arguments and quarrels that will ensue.

Thats y i always advocate for almost flat panel orientation. the slight tilt is the natural washing angle else flat is perfert

GeorgeD1:


bigrovar,
like i said in my reply to earthream, it is a calculated attempt to obtain maximum yield in the spring/autumn
months and the readings on my cc seem to be proving me right. although again, space availability had a part
to play in my decisions. if you check my south side pictures, you will notice that the roof is almost filled up facing
south.

its like getting the best of both worlds, in the sense that while the north facing panels will give me optimum harvest
during the spring months, the south side will kick in and take over the show during the winter/harmattan times
of the year.

yes, the charge controllers are both connected to same battery bank.

Barezzi:
Good one GeorgeD1!!
I'm still plotting which bank to rob so i can be like you

I understand DC coupling is best for those with huge battery banks and high night time loads.
With your huge array, over 7kw, do you think you'll be better served with a small battery bank sized for night time consumption and a grid-tie inverter to maximize daytime usage?

barezzi,
to keep the answer simple, the seemingly large battery bank size is to provide extended hours
of autonomy especially on cloudy days.

jazzman2:

Sir, I never implied that the sole aim of using gridtie inverters is to roll back NEPA rates. In fact, I mentioned that grid tie does not necessarily mean sell back to grid. I am trying to highlight the high energy conversion efficiency of using gridtie inverters off grid that are AC coupled to bi-directional inverter chargers if the primary loads are daytime AC loads. Pls don't mid-interprete my words. Thanks

This captures my points succinctly!

DMerciful:
Thats y i always advocate for almost flat panel orientation. the slight tilt is the natural washing angle else flat is perfert

you're very correct. i almost fell for the near flat panel orientation during this recent upgrade but then
i realized that while that will give me optimum yield for a few months, maybe three or four, the likelihood
of the panels being covered over with thick layers of dust that will settle on it, six months from now, is very high.
here in the south-south, we mostly rely on the rains to wash dirt and dust off our panels. if you install on a
near-flat orientation, that advantage is taken away. besides the dust, another issue is the rain itself. the
tendency for rain water to gather on your panels for the next couple of hours after a major rainfall also
becomes very high. an inclined solar panel will allow rain water run off almost instantly and give you a bright
surface that begins producing juice almost instantly after rainfall without necessarily waiting for hours until
when the water on the panel surface evaporates.

efuro:


@ GeorgeD

do a YouTube clip from start to finish. you may hit 1m downloads who knows.

ur Aircon go hear am! or do cold room business & smile to bank.

unfortunately i didn't shoot any videos during the entire process, however it's an
idea worth considering. also the cold room business.