kelvinhilton:
Too long... Thank God he is now free from d shackles of unbelieve.

LightandDarkness:
Never heard of him. Again atheism isn't a church, once you lack belief in any deities you are atheist, no one has a monopoly on atheism. If Richard Dawkins or anyone else decides they are no longer atheist that's their choice, they and this person are free to change his mind if he wants, it doesn't mean anyone else should.

people are atheist for many different reason and are free to change their views based on the interpretation of the evidence before them, I could be deist 10 years from now-i simply don't see sufficient evidence for the position. On further research I see he believed in neither Christianity or Islam and their God "I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins". Anyway I will make sure to read his book for insight.

Almaheed:
very insightful into the world of metaphysics and the I admire the way he balanced it with empirical notions of how the complexity of the universe can only originate from an intelligent source I.e God.

philosophers have over the years argued against the existence of God especially the Americans with their logic and pragmatism but whatever fact they tend to point out only leads towards the absolute being. how would you object that the source of life in the universe exist by a LUCKY CHANCE purported by the big bang theory.... apparently something is wrong with the atheist.

and I wonder how one can be African and still be an atheist I don't just get that logic. with all the spiritual forces in the land. African atheist are uncle Tom's who would copy any shit the white man gives to them, if you see one always shame him

LightandDarkness:


I wonder if you also shame the Christians whose religion clearly comes from the Europeans. I can accept this argument from you if you're an African traditionalist but if you are Christian you are practicing a religion brought to you by colonialist Europeans who murdered and enslaved your forefathers in the name of civilising the negro, if you are Muslim you are practicing the religion of Arabs that reached you through a combination of war and trade.

felixomor:


So Christianity came from the europeans?
Wow
By the way, why don't you also reject the enlightenment, healthcare and western education they brought?

LightandDarkness:


To Africa?, yes. I am not against modernization, colonialism and the destruction of our cultural identity was not necessary to bring enlightenment, healthcare, and "western education". Rather than a mutual exchange of values, colonialism was a replacement. Oddly enough religious fundamentalists are now one of the greatest enemies of continued enlightenment in Africa.

felixomor:


Sorry thats hypocrisy.
Besides, Your African ancestors kidnapped each other and sold each other as slaves, to the whites in exchange for salt, guns, sugar etc
The whites didn't enslave. Africa enslaved herself. The whites also went to other continents that didn't sell themselves as slaves.

Besides You should learn that The europeans were not the first to bring Christianity to Africa,
Long before they did, Ethiopians and Egyptians, Nubians and Kushites were already preaching the gospel in Africa.
Ethiopia remains one of the largest Christian majorities, they were never colonised.

So your idea of tying colonisation to christianity in Africa is a fallacy of excluded middle.

felixomor:


Sorry thats hypocrisy.
Besides, Your African ancestors kidnapped each other and sold each other as slaves, to the whites in exchange for salt, guns, sugar etc
The whites didn't enslave. Africa enslaved herself. The whites also went to other continents that didn't sell themselves as slaves.

Besides You should learn that The europeans were not the first to bring Christianity to Africa,
Long before they did, Ethiopians and Egyptians, Nubians and Kushites were already preaching the gospel in Africa.
Ethiopia remains one of the largest Christian majorities, they were never colonised.

So your idea of tying colonisation to christianity in Africa is a fallacy of excluded middle.

LightandDarkness:


It is not. Are you defending colonialism and slavery? Lol. But did they bring Christianity to Nigeria?

felixomor:


Was your context "Nigeria"?
Or is African Christianity limited to Nigeria?

And please show me where I supported slavery? Or you want to twist words?

LightandDarkness:


Nigeria and in a larger context Africa, I might have been partially wrong about Africa but only for a small minority. In Nigeria what I said was 100% true, outside Nigeria it seems to hold true except for Egypt, Ethiopia, and Eritrea-i'll give you that.


"The whites didn't enslave. Africa enslaved herself." So the whites did not enslave africa and/or if we were enslaved it is because we invited it?

LightandDarkness:


Nigeria and in a larger context Africa, I might have been partially wrong about Africa but only for a small minority. In Nigeria what I said was 100% true, outside Nigeria it seems to hold true except for Egypt, Ethiopia, and Eritrea-i'll give you that.


"The whites didn't enslave. Africa enslaved herself." So the whites did not enslave africa and/or if we were enslaved it is because we invited it?

felixomor:


Sorry thats hypocrisy.
Besides, Your African ancestors kidnapped each other and sold each other as slaves, to the whites in exchange for salt, guns, sugar etc
The whites didn't enslave. Africa enslaved herself. The whites also went to other continents that didn't sell themselves as slaves.

Besides You should learn that The europeans were not the first to bring Christianity to Africa,
Long before they did, Ethiopians and Egyptians, Nubians and Kushites were already preaching the gospel in Africa.
Ethiopia remains one of the largest Christian majorities, they were never colonised.

So your idea of tying colonisation to christianity in Africa is a fallacy of excluded middle.

felixomor:

Not "might" you are wrong.
You are also wrong on Nigeria. The first people to bring christianity to Nigeria were the Monks (Reasearch them)
Not the colonialists.

Secondly, on enslavement, it is still happening today.
Just look at how foreign companies exploit our crude oil and Human Resources while they bribe our leaders.
So you cant blame anybody other than Africans themselves.
Lets be honest. That has nothing to do with Jesus Christ or his message.

LightandDarkness:


On research they were Portuguese who arrived along with portuguese slave traders and colonialists, so still European. According to wikipedia "When direct Portuguese contacts in the region were withdrawn, however, the influence of the Catholic missionaries waned. By the eighteenth century, evidence of Christianity had disappeared." So the presence of Christianity in Nigeria then and now can still be attributed to European influences.

The message of Jesus Christ was used to establish colonial power in Nigeria. The missionaries presented Christianity as a better way of life for the communities they reached and colonialism as a way to access better education and healthcare. Kingdoms that resisted missionaries and colonial rule were subjugated using warfare.

The Europeans (specifically the british) also share the blame. They created the demand for slaves that drove the industry, they used colonialism to gain access to our natural resources after using slavery to take our human resources, and now take advantage of a corrupt country for enrichment.

felixomor:

Thank God you have moved on from saying they "enslaved Africa" to they "created demand"

Secondly, Actually the whole of North Africa was Christian majority, before invasions of arabs and Islam,
So You can see that Christianity was not from europeans
As a matter of fact, Jesus wasn't a European. He wasn't even white.
So how did the europeans get Christianity? Is still a question that will await you at the end.
Was it also by "colonial power"?

@ bolded,
Please explain how Lord Lugard (for example) used the message of Jesus Christ to establish colonial power in Nigeria or almagamate it?
. Knowing fully well that Nigeria had Muslims in the north, Or he also used The gospel to co-erce & colonize the north?

I will like to know the details please.

LightandDarkness:


They both created the demand for slaves and enslaved Africans, how could they create the demand for slave trade without using Africans as slaves. Furthermore, slaves were not solely captured by locals. Can you prove either of those scenarios are wrong?

North Africa is a very large region. You are basing this on Egypt, Ethiopia, and Eritrea?.

Of course Jesus wasn't an European and probably wasn't white, makes you wonder why the missionaries presented a white Jesus to the africans. How Christianity arrived in Europe is not particularly relevant to this discussion focused on africa-more specifically Nigeria.

In my previous post i said. "Kingdoms that resisted missionaries and colonial rule were subjugated using warfare." The Sokoto Caliphate was one of those kingdoms, largely an Islamic caliphate and one of the most organized governmental systems at the time, military conquest presented the only way to take the caliphate. Lord lugard himself took the caliphate and cemented British rule which made it possible to amalgamate Nigeria. Religious control prior was not possible and religious control after wasn't necessary when military subjugation had been achieved. The relationship between Christianity and colonialism can be more clearly seen in the south.

felixomor:


Error 1: Please which missionary presented "white Jesus" to Nigerians? What is his name? ( I pray u answer )

Error 2: You have now admitted that the gospel was not used for colonialism in the north(which makes up a larger landmass of Nigeria) so the argument of linking colonialism and christianity is defeated. Colonialism would have still taken place. Obviously.

Thirdly, India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Afghanistan etc etc were all colonised by europeans and Americans, These countries are not Christian countries.
Please how did that happen?

By now, your trying to lump christianity with colonialism is gone.
And besides the people who you claimed are responsible for Christianity are now practicing strange things like Homosexuality.
Please if our Christianity is from them, why are we not copying and following these strange doctrines with them?

LightandDarkness:


I don't need to name a specific missionary. All the artistic depictions at the time presented Jesus as a white European, a simple Google search will show this is the case today. I suspected a racial motive for the depictions of Jesus as white.

LightandDarkness:

So because religion did not play a part in the establishment of colonial rule in the north that means it had no role in the establishment of colonial rule in Nigeria? Sorry that makes no sense. Regardless of if colonial rule would have been established in the south anyway it doesn't mean religion did not play any role whatsoever.

LightandDarkness:

Different countries different approaches. Those counties already had established, unified, religious practices. The regions that became Pakistan, Malaysia, and Afghanistan had already been ruled by several Islamic caliphates and kingdoms. Hinduism had already been well established in India. So in those ways they were similar to the Sokoto Caliphate. So how? Military conquest.

LightandDarkness:

They modernized and became secular. Christianity now has little influence on the lives of citizens.

LightandDarkness:

Are you disputing the role of Europeans in the spread of Christianity?

felixomor:

- The fact that you cant name a missionary clearly nullifies the argument. You only speculated.

As a matter of fact, the earliest missionaries were down to earth people who even learnt local languages and even worked with local interpreters and bible translators.
They never presented any pictures. The picture you see today is of Robert Powell the first major actor who played the role of Jesus. besides some early churches (even in Europe and N.Africa) also have pictures of tanned and black Jesus.



So Now it is "Play role".....
Well that clearly counters the argument. Its now obvious Christianity was not forced on anybody as you tried to make it look before.


Wrong, again you speculate
India for example have many tribes and gods also just like Africa.
So that is not the reason. The reason is simple: They did not accept, period.
Christianity wasn't forced.
-


-Who modernised? Forget that.
Nigerians saw Christianity and accepted willingly, not forced.
After all, many people rejected it also.
Its even after, colonisation that more gospel was preached in Nigeria.


No, I AM not, Unless you want to spin words again
Even the Average Christian on the street has a role in the spread of Christianity......

felixomor:


Sorry thats hypocrisy.
Besides, Your African ancestors kidnapped each other and sold each other as slaves, to the whites in exchange for salt, guns, sugar etc
The whites didn't enslave. Africa enslaved herself. The whites also went to other continents that didn't sell themselves as slaves.

Besides You should learn that The europeans were not the first to bring Christianity to Africa,
Long before they did, Ethiopians and Egyptians, Nubians and Kushites were already preaching the gospel in Africa.
Ethiopia remains one of the largest Christian majorities, they were never colonised.

So your idea of tying colonisation to christianity in Africa is a fallacy of excluded middle.

KingEbukasBlog:


Woah ! I learnt a lot bro . Thanks .

But this is wicked sha , so Nairaland atheists like sonofluc1fer , realmindz who have been peddling false information will no longer have more none sense to spew . Chai ... Atheism is getting emptier day by day

Almaheed:
very insightful into the world of metaphysics and the I admire the way he balanced it with empirical notions of how the complexity of the universe can only originate from an intelligent source I.e God.

philosophers have over the years argued against the existence of God especially the Americans with their logic and pragmatism but whatever fact they tend to point out only leads towards the absolute being. how would you object that the source of life in the universe exist by a LUCKY CHANCE purported by the big bang theory.... apparently something is wrong with the atheist.

and I wonder how one can be African and still be an atheist I don't just get that logic. with all the spiritual forces in the land. African atheist are uncle Tom's who would copy any shit the white man gives to them, if you see one always shame him

LightandDarkness:
Never heard of him. Again atheism isn't a church, once you lack belief in any deities you are atheist, no one has a monopoly on atheism. If Richard Dawkins or anyone else decides they are no longer atheist that's their choice, they and this person are free to change his mind if he wants, it doesn't mean anyone else should.

people are atheist for many different reason and are free to change their views based on the interpretation of the evidence before them, I could be deist 10 years from now-i simply don't see sufficient evidence for the position. On further research I see he believed in neither Christianity or Islam and their God "I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins". Anyway I will make sure to read his book for insight.

LightandDarkness:


I wonder if you also shame the Christians whose religion clearly comes from the Europeans. I can accept this argument from you if you're an African traditionalist but if you are Christian you are practicing a religion brought to you by colonialist Europeans who murdered and enslaved your forefathers in the name of civilising the negro, if you are Muslim you are practicing the religion of Arabs that reached you through a combination of war and trade.