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Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by blackcypha(m): 11:38pm On Feb 15, 2010 |
Pastor AIO:pastor it is evidently clear dat you prefer to tether on the fringes of ambiguity in almost all your statements in those threads u referred me to, honestly i still dont know what u believe in cuz even deepsight observed the same thing and asked u direct questions which of course u hardly answered,,,,,, |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by blackcypha(m): 11:43pm On Feb 15, 2010 |
Pastor AIO:please make my work easy, do you belief in a personal god?heaven,hell?, just be straight forward , yes or no if yes r u a christian/moslem?no ambiguities please, |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by PastorAIO: 11:46pm On Feb 15, 2010 |
blackcypha: Na wa o! You still don't know whether I'm an atheist or theist from all that. Okay let me see if I can summarize all of that. I believe that there is an Author to the universe. I refrain from using the word 'God' because I find it to be a loaded term with too many connotations that I may not want to carry. In believe that there is intention in existence. |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by sinequanon: 11:58pm On Feb 15, 2010 |
Pastor AIO: I think we are using subtly different terminology. I chose the word 'sense' to imply more than perception, yet not meaning. It is what I am calling "sense" that comprises perception of, and connection between, events. But, unlike meaning, it does not represent a constraint. 'sense' invites the observer to acknowledge that the smell reminds him of cigarette smoke. (relative) 'meaning' prompts the observer to believe that the smell is of cigarette smoke. (absolute -- a constraint) So, while I see sense (which includes connection between events) as "objects of pure cognition," my definition of meaning goes further than yours. Meaning prompts the observer to adulterate his cognition by interposing an assumption. Pastor AIO: I used the term "peculiar" to describe connections between events. (i.e connections are peculiar to their specific events and therefore necessarily anachronistic in the sense you have illustrated.) Indeed, 'transient meaning' looks increasingly akin to what I am terming "sense". It may just be that transient meaning has less value than putatively permanent meaning within the instinctive human nature to categorise, simplify and reduce events. Perhaps that instinct to simplify is intrinsically problematic, seeking permanence where there is none. Edit: I've been spelling 'peculiar' as 'perculiar' all day today! I sensed something was wrong but I couldn't make the connection. How peculiar! |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by PastorAIO: 12:25am On Feb 16, 2010 |
blackcypha: I believe that the world has an Author. I believe that there is an intention in the creation of the world but that the world can deviate from the intention. I believe that the purpose of religion is to re align us to that intention. In Judaism that intention is called Tsedeq In Islam it is called Al-Fitra In Vedic Hinduism it is called Rita In Buddhism it is called Dharma Jesus called it the Kingdom of Heaven, Basileia tou theos In China it is called Tao In Yoruba it is called Ayanmo So what religion does that make me? I'm not interested in names and labels. What I am interested in is whether you know of that intended order in the universe, and whether your being is in tune with it. From Tsedeq come Shalom, and I don't know anybody that doesn't want peace. |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by blackcypha(m): 2:21pm On Feb 17, 2010 |
Pastor AIO:u still didnt answer me precisely do you beleif in heaven /hell ,jesus as the xtians do?ur still evading the question, you sound more like a pantheist who is tolerant of EVERY RELIGION? , ironically ur name has PASTOR all over it which presupposes me to belief ur a christian .so why the false identity? just answer the questions with YES OR NO e.g PASTOR AIO:blackcypha, do you belief in mohammed? BLACKCYPHA: no, QED or r u somewhat not convinced in ur beliefs and ur still searching for truth? |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by sweetguy10(m): 11:26pm On Feb 18, 2010 |
This topic (Religion and science) has cause Great catastrophe In the World , Nations Have risen Agains nation , Millions have been Killed , Thousands of Book has been Burnt All because of this same topic , Many has been banished , Many has been Glorified , all because of this Religion and science , Theories has been theorised , Doubt-shaking Experiments Has been carried out , Even to Explain GENESIS 1 , All in the Hope to FUSE religion and science , Bible verses has been Quoted , Supernatural miracle have happened , Still the world stil knows No peace .And I can see the spell is working on Nairalanders too , Fighting each Other , Just Like Galilleo was crucified , , read dan brown's ANGELS AND DEMONS , you will know more about Always-holy RELIGION and ever convincing SCIENCE , |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by lahips: 12:21pm On Feb 19, 2010 |
Science is based on HYPOTHESIS, FACTS and DISCOVERIES, while Religion has has its stronghold on just one word known as FAITH. |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by CHARLESBENNY: 7:18pm On Feb 19, 2010 |
I rly appreaciate most responses i read here, i never knew we are this knowledgeable in this country, some ppl hv spoken greatly and others based on their shallowy religious places, by now it should be a common knowledge that religion is more or else those believes that place ppl where they neccessarily wouldn't have loved to be, taking them quite far apart from their innermost sense of harmony, freedom and peace, the difference, religion is merely a formation of believes, whatever believe you and your group are able to formulate becomes your religion, that is why they are so many. science!! it is a body of knowledge and it is one and definite, it is a surer means to salvation cause is tested and proven Reality, reality is life, it is neither religion nor science. it is that which keeps you and I connected as one, it is the source of existence, it is what you may call spirit, or enegy or life or God, the beautiful thing about it is that, it is who u are, it is who IAM |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by sinequanon: 8:08pm On Feb 19, 2010 |
CHARLESBENNY: Can something that is proven later be disproved? If so, of what value is the label, "proven"? Who told you science is "proven"? Why do you believe them? Would you believe someone who said his religion is "proven"? |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by Iyineda(m): 12:59pm On Feb 20, 2010 |
Science is tested truth=falsible, but religion is untested truth @IYINEDA U mean u will accept dat s/tin dat is not tested is the truth?do you reason before postin comments at all? Yeah, you're right about that. I didn't read that sentence well. I agree with the definition of science, but not with the fact that religion is real truth that does not need to be tested. When I first read it, I didn't understand it that way. |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by PastorAIO: 1:29pm On Feb 20, 2010 |
blackcypha: So you are one of those! Not every question merits a yes or no answer. Why? Well, for one, the very premise of the question could be faulty. For instance the question could be based on a false dichotomy. The very subject of this thread is a case in point. What is the difference between science and religion? This is a false dichotomy. I have pointed this out earlier in the thread. It is like asking what is the difference between business and marketing. When I read responses like this: the difference?. . . it is obvious that the thinking here is very superficial and hardly any serious thought has gone into the matter. Look at your first statement! Is that how science has really been done in history? Really? Do you know anything about the history of science? Can you give us examples of how science came up with conclusions after observing facts. I have a few examples that contradict this. In fact the evidence shows that with most human thought what comes first is the inspiration. The idea. And then we go looking for evidence to support or reject the idea. It is was science calls an hypotheses. Remember Mendel? He is the one that discovered hereditary traits in reproduction. He got his facts to prove it from studying peas. But it is known that he doctored his result. Okay, he turned out to be right in the long run, but still he bent his results to support this strong idea that he had. Here is a site that argues in his defense: http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:NoFFPJi-GhMJ:eebweb.arizona.edu/faculty/birky/ECOL320Lectures/Sect13.MendGen2Probability.ppt+mendel+genetics+cooked+results&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=safari Another example. Einstein's theory of General Relativity was just an idea that he was inspired with. A hunch, an inspiration such as all scientists have all the time and work on. The facts and the evidence came much later on. At its introduction in 1915, the general theory of relativity did not have a solid empirical foundation. It was known that it correctly accounted for the "anomalous" precession of the perihelion of Mercury and on philosophical grounds it was considered satisfying that it was able to unify Newton's law of universal gravitation with special relativity. That light appeared to bend in gravitational fields in line with the predictions of general relativity was found in 1919 but it was not until a program of precision tests was started in 1959 that the various predictions of general relativity were tested to any further degree of accuracy in the weak gravitational field limit, severely limiting possible deviations from the theory.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity . . . and I could go on and on and on, but if you don't get the point yet then what's the use. We all get inspired. Scientific tradition might require that the ideas we are inspired with are then backed up by experimental data. Fair enough. But you point that science starts with the facts is just such total and utter rubbish. And as for your claims that religion starts with the conclusion etc. I say not anymore than any other way of thinking. Furthermore you fail to realise that a lot of what forms the backbone of religions is based on experience. The experiences might be of a mystical nature or not, but they are ultimately experiences, hence facts like those which support the claims of scientists. The facts might not be demonstrable facts, but they are facts all the same. I hope that the above adequately poo-poos your contribution to the science-religion false dichotomy nonsense. Now let me move on to your other questions. blackcypha: Am I a theist or an atheist, cos most of my statements are philosophical More false dichotomies. Philosophy is not opposed to religion or to theism. You don't have to be an atheist to be a philosopher. This is where your problems with understanding me lie. In the baseless premises of your questions. blackcypha: If there is any one thing that I would love to impart to you here it will be the lesson that demanding for a Yes or No answer is not always appropriate. Because until one sorts out the premises of his questioning he will learn nothing from a yes or no answer. It will only get you more and more tied up and convoluted in your error. |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by sinequanon: 2:34pm On Feb 20, 2010 |
Pastor AIO: A question is not a dichotomy. In this case, the only premise is that science and religion are either fundamentally the same or they are not. I think it is your approach that is causing your issue, not the question. I just dug up your example. . . Even if the OP thinks that there is no difference fundamentally that still leaves the idea that they are comparable in a manner that is unjustified. There! Despite your own argument, you have suggested a fundamental difference. |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by PastorAIO: 3:39pm On Feb 20, 2010 |
sinequanon: A question is not a dichotomy, but it can be based on a dichotomy. There is a suggestion in the OP and in the responses to the OP that science and religion are in opposition to each other. So a scientist can't be religious and a religious person can't do science. At least not on the same subject. I guess my main beef is the suggestion of mutual exclusivity between the two. |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by sinequanon: 3:45pm On Feb 20, 2010 |
Pastor AIO: Pastor, I do not see how the OP can suggest mutual exclusivity when I am claiming that the two are the same at a fundamental level. Pastor, I have looked again, and you even seem to agree in post #2. Neither does the title suggest mutual exclusivity, imo. |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by PastorAIO: 3:54pm On Feb 20, 2010 |
sinequanon: I guess I was preempting the way that I knew others would read it. especially the atheists. |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by sinequanon: 4:06pm On Feb 20, 2010 |
Pastor AIO: I know you do not pander lightly to the conceptual limitations of others, pastor. I wonder why you were doing so here. There is only so far you can discuss sensibly with the sort of atheist who stubbornly reads "the earth is 6000 years old" into the assertion "I am not an atheist." |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by blackcypha(m): 4:53pm On Feb 21, 2010 |
Pastor AIO: pastor I NEVER MEANT WHAT U IMPLIED CUZ AM A SCIENTIST/ENGINEERING MAJOR, maybe I shud state it properly by saying science develops facts from tested ideas and reaches a conclusion e.g newtons experiment on gravity. first he saw an aple fall down from a tree.second he develops an idea [HYPOTHESIS] dat a force acting on the apple must have made it fall downwards not upwards. third after series of tests/experiments on different objects,he gets the same effects and results, and measures the force to be 9.81m/s2,"[FACT] last, he reaches a CONCLUSION that this force must be called the FORCE OF GRAVITY that acts on every thing that is matter on the earth. THIS IS WHAT THE STATEMENT, "here are the FACTS,what CONCLUSIONS can be drawn means." Pastor AIO:HABA PASTOR !must u be so sarcastic?we r only dicussing and u need to be sure that u interpreted my statement well b/4 drawing conclusions' MY QUESTION IS THESE MYSTICAL RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCES CAN THEY BE TESTED scientifically? If not how then do you call them FACTS like those which support scientific claims?OR do they have thhei way of being tested by mystcal standards? Pastor AIO:pastorrrrrrr, where did I ever suggest dat You have to be an atheist to be a philosopher?for once i have nver tot u were an atheist even b/4 asking u dat question , cuz i have read alot of ur posts, my satement only suggests my curiosity to know ur religious beliefs based on your postings on different threads.PERIOD Pastor AIO:ok I get the lesson, but cud u now answer my questions now dat i av clearified ur PRESUMABLY wrong premises of my above statenments? |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by PastorAIO: 12:07pm On Feb 22, 2010 |
@BlackCypha, You asked me if I believed in God. This was your original question. Quote from: blackcypha on February 15, 2010, 11:59 AM I told you that I believe that creation has an Author. Do you classify that as God or not? That is up to you. I don't want to get into any arguments about the definition of God. That world has an Author and the world is imbued with the Intent of the Author. But then you said this: pastorrrrrrr, where did I ever suggest dat You have to be an atheist to be a philosopher?for once If you never thought I were an atheist then why did you ask whether I was an atheist or a theist? Was it a rhetorical question? Was it a trick question? Or was it just an opportunity to get me to exercise my fingers on my computers keyboard? I suspect that you have a series of neat boxes or categories in your mind and you would love to fit me into one of them. I fear that I might not fit into any of the categories you've got lined up for me and that is what is causing you so much consternation. |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by blackcypha(m): 6:22pm On Mar 03, 2010 |
@pastor AIO just being dead curious nothing more BUT from the look of things it seems ur a deist like me, ; |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by PastorAIO: 7:43pm On Mar 03, 2010 |
blackcypha: Are you a cat that you want to be dead curious? Remember, curiosity killed the cat. A deist doesn't believe that God is involved in history. I don't know if I think along those lines. I certainly live and act as if I can appeal to my God and he will intervene. |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by blackcypha(m): 3:23pm On Mar 17, 2010 |
Pastor AIO: LMAO ; I am not a cat but am curious, and i certainly wont be killed by asking you for replies as the proverbial cat , Pastor AIO:but you are quite funny oooooo!why do you assign PASTOR to your name,cuz your name suggests dat you r an evangelical xtian u will agree with me, please i stand to be corrected. |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by o9999: 11:03am On Mar 18, 2010 |
Religion - indicates what happened Science - puts in logic, human reasoning etc to explain the intricates of the what happened e.g - Religion will says he was told him to move and he moved from point a to b. science says no - his brain sent message to the nerves and the bones, (explaining what occurs in movement) Religion - puts the initiator of the actions to a supreme being (GOD, in whatever name any religions chooses) Science - Puts the initiator of the actions to something e.g - Religion says, God caused the earth to move and vomited anger (volcano) ------ (explains the initiator as God but does not explain the process of the action) Science says, the magma heated up to a certain temp and erupted , (explains the process of volcano) ---- but does not say what the initiator of the action Religion chooses to put GOD when it gets to complicated inexplicable points Science chooses to put "question marks" or "something" when it gets to complicated inexplicable points To make this easier ask religion :- when God said / did, what are the little details of the actions that took place for that to be fullfilled (i think the ans is found in science) ask science : - what is the 1st thing that caused that action to start, what triggered something that had been in the constant state of rest to start the 1st movement or what triggered something that had been in a constant state of motion to come to rest? (i think the ans if found in religion) |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by sinequanon: 5:40pm On Mar 18, 2010 |
o9999: Both religion and science assume a primary mover. Scientists just call theirs "the fundamental laws of science." Both seek to find out more about their primary mover and, in the meantime, fill with question marks those things they cannot "explain." |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by PastorAIO: 8:51pm On Mar 19, 2010 |
blackcypha: I'm not an evangelical xtian if you mean what I think you mean. Do you think I mean what I think you think or not? I'm 'pastor' from long before I was actually a pastor. From primary school in fact. 'Pastor elese'. In translation 'the sinful pastor', due to a combination of rascality and zeal for the bible. Are you now corrected or you are you still thinking what I might be thinking? |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by blackcypha(m): 8:14pm On Jul 19, 2010 |
yes I do think you mean what you think I think and dat"s dependent on what u mean anyways . but for wateva reason u wer ascrbed pastor b4 u became a xtian,your deep analyses on issues goes along way to tell alot about what ur positon on such issues mean, oh and by the way plz what was ur major? psychology?cuz u trying to Bleep wth ma brain!LOL, |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by PastorAIO: 8:31pm On Jul 19, 2010 |
blackcypha: Blackcypha, welcome back to the forum. It's been a while. I'm not a psychology major. In fact I'm totally self-educated. I no go school. |
Re: What Is The Fundamental Difference Between Science And Religion? by ajoguegbe(m): 8:17am On Jul 20, 2010 |
I am not ineterested in the difference between science and religion, but the difference btween science and Christianity: Science is a subset of the Christian faith.if it goes beyond the scriptures of truth, its only a matter of time, Christianity is higher than science. You will enjoy this blog post: http://judewatchman..com/2010/02/once-upon-snake-serpent-science-and.html |
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