Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit - Religion - Nairaland
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| Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by chemystery: 12:00pm On Aug 05, 2017 |
We are familiar with the genesis account of the original sin which made us believe that sin originated after Adam and Eve must have consumed the fruit from the forbidden tree. If one should carry out a proper analysis of this story, one would realise that man was inclined to committing sin even before eating the forbidden fruit. Reason being that the act of disobedience came in first before the consumption of the fruit. Meaning there was an inclination of committing sin even before the fruit was eaten. It also means that there is equal tendency of Adam to disobey god as well when he was instructed to name all the animals had it been Satan also tempted him not to. In conclusion, Disobedience (sin/imperfection) made man eat the fruit and NOT eating the fruit that made man disobey. Why then do Christians say god created man perfect/sinless until the forbidden fruit was consumed when there is that tendency for man to do anything against god when tempted by the devil? 6 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by Josephjnr(m): 12:02pm On Aug 05, 2017 |
Man recreated himself. Don't ask me how just know that there is not explanation to anything in religion. Just believe dis. 1 Like |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by chemystery: 12:12pm On Aug 05, 2017 |
Josephjnr:  |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by MuttleyLaff: 12:38pm On Aug 05, 2017 |
chemystery:Sin and Human beings Necessity is the mother of invention Sin; difficult problem(s) & situation(s) inspires ingenious solution(s); Man chemystery:SMH Disobedience was activated or triggered the moment the fruit was eaten Remember that the command was ''thou shall not eat...'' chemystery:You're clutching straws mate, because there was no stipulated consequence for disobeying God's instruction to name all the animals chemystery:Refusing to obey the command not to eat the fruit is the disobedience Man failed his integrity test chemystery:I'll give you the ''God created man sinless until the forbidden fruit was consumed'' part but challenge you, to reproduce here, anywhere from the bible, where and at any time, God said He ever, created man perfect 2 Likes |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by chemystery: 6:43pm On Aug 05, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff:@bolded, well, if you tell me god created man imperfect, then the concept of original sin does not hold cos this makes man a sinner by default. Forget about consequence of naming animals. There must not be consequence before you term an action as disobedience. If god ask Adam to name animals, and Satan ask him not to, is that obedience or disobedience? Adam as well have equal tendency of disobeying god in any other way whether there is a consequence or not. Well, you have agreed that god didn't create them perfect. If so, I can rest my case. Else you tell me why a perfect human should have that tendency of committing sin by default. Refusing to obey the command not to eat the fruit is the disobedienceEveryone knows refusal to obey is disobedience. You are only playing with words. The question there is was it disobedience to god's command that made man eat the fruit or was it the consequence of eating the fruit that brought about disobedience? Also, if Satan had tempted man to disobey god in other regards aside from eating the forbidden fruit, are you saying man wouldn't have disobeyed? 1 Like |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by GoodMuyis(m): 6:53pm On Aug 05, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff Welcome back, where you haff dey? chemystery the fruit of the three of life is meant to be eaten, but the command not to eat the fruit is an integrity test to man's freewill. Even angels rebel against God, so what is man that was created with freewill not to be tested for integrity? |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by chemystery: 7:09pm On Aug 05, 2017 |
GoodMuyis:It means god never trusted what he created. It means man have that tendency to either do good or evil. It means the world will still be sinful whether man ate the fruit or not. Tell me what would have stopped Cain from killing Abel if Adam and Eve had not eaten the fruit, and Satan had tempted Cain since there is that freewill to do good or evil |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by GoodMuyis(m): 7:36pm On Aug 05, 2017 |
chemystery: FREEWILL If Adam and Eve had not eaten the fruit: Integrity would have being passed as trait, which shows that Man had passed integrity test SIMPLE For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. - Genesis 18:19 |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by simplex2: 7:59pm On Aug 05, 2017 |
The pertinent question should have been what was gods plan about the man and woman he created? Did he expect to just play around with the 2 naked toys until he is bored? What was the essence of creating two humans and keep them intellectually daft, no plans for procreation since they weren't to know what to even do and how to do it? If you ask pertinent questions, you will discover that the creation story is as false as they come. Anyway, if it were true, Adam would have finally gotten bored and eaten the damn fruit. After all, angels got bored and irritated with the style of leadership and revolted. 1 Like |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by chemystery: 8:21pm On Aug 05, 2017 |
GoodMuyis:If they had passed the integrity test, what would happen if Satan comes again to tempt them? Prove that passing the first test guarantees that other test would be passed? |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by GoodMuyis(m): 8:33pm On Aug 05, 2017 |
chemystery: YES |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by chemystery: 9:12pm On Aug 05, 2017 |
GoodMuyis:that wasn't a polar question |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by GoodMuyis(m): 9:15pm On Aug 05, 2017 |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by Ken4Christ: 3:47am On Aug 06, 2017 |
chemystery: Op, you are wrong. Man was created perfect. But he had the opportunity to prove his loyalty to God but failed the test. However, Jesus, the last Adam came to prove it is possible to overcome temptation. He was tempted the same way the first Adam was but never fell. Jesus came to restore back what man lost in the Garden of Eden. And one day, a new earth will be created that life will go on as originally planned by God even in greater glory. 1 Like |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by hopefulLandlord: 4:56am On Aug 06, 2017 |
Humans wrote the book that says yahweh was perfect. Because humans are not perfect, none of what humans do is perfect .... including writing. translating, editing books. Christianity posits it's the todder's fault for getting cut when the parent leaves the knife on the floor. Come on, every decent parent child proofs their home well before the appearance of the baby, but somehow this concept escapes a divine being? 4 Likes |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by Wilgrea7(m): 7:02am On Aug 06, 2017 |
the question should be.. “was man created with freewill?" if yes, then why did he have to eat a fruit to tell him the difference between good and bad? if he could do what he wanted without any orientation of whether it is good or bad.. does that constitute as freewill? if man was not created with freewill, and he did not know the difference between wrong and right.. then how did he know that he was not supposed to eat the fruit and that eating the fruit was wrong? if he didn't know that eating the fruit was wrong because he didn't know the difference between good and bad, why then was he punished? and if he knew it was wrong, then doesn't that mean that he knew the difference between right and wrong and should not need any fruit to reveal it to him? 4 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by chemystery: 9:46am On Aug 06, 2017 |
Ken4Christ:If man was created perfect why did he succumb to a mere temptation of eating fruit? Even Satan was created perfect, yet he rebelled against god. A man that could succumb to temptation and disobedience by default and an angel that could rebel against god. Tell me, what sort of perfection are you talking about here? 1 Like |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by chemystery: 9:51am On Aug 06, 2017 |
Wilgrea7:This is another great point! Ken4christ, GoodMuyis, MuttleyLaff, oya come answer this also |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by NPComplete: 9:55am On Aug 06, 2017 |
Ken4Christ:  Perfect and failed? Aren't those two opposing words in that context. What is perfect never fails and what fails isn't perfect. Sorry.Also the attempt to bring Jesus into this would have made more sense if Jesus was assumed to be an ordinary man from inception to crucifixion without knowledge of his innate God-likeness just like any modern human. But, nah, Jesus knew he came from heaven he knows the glory to be gotten in heaven is far greater that what the earth could offer so he was able to resist for just a mere 33 years. So it doesn't prove anything. Sorry. 3 Likes |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by GoodMuyis(m): 4:34pm On Aug 06, 2017 |
chemystery: No its a confusion. count the number of IFs in the sentence, you will see what if mean. He is trying to restructure a question, thereby turning it to confusion while capitalizing on the keyword i introduced to the discussion FREEWILL. Other keyword were neglected such as TEST OF INTEGRITY and OBEDIENCE that was introduced by Muttley.Laff. If you or him will combine the three together answer to your question will come out. And i will repeat again! The Tree of Life is not evil but meant to be eating initially. so eating it is not issue, but failing Integrity Test 1 Like |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by MuttleyLaff: 5:21pm On Aug 06, 2017 |
chemystery:It's you who first brought this up with this remark: ''Why then do Christians say god created man perfect...'' so I challenged you, to reproduce here, anywhere from the bible, where and at any time, God said He ever, created man perfect Perfect, in relation to man, only began to be used in the NT The quest to be a perfect man, the advice to aspire to be a perfect man are NT stuff, never and not OT, my friend. chemystery:Whatever floats your boat. chemystery:Its the latter (i.e. disobedience) with no defined unwelcome, unpleasant and painful or harmful outcome It is unlike the disobedience of the command not to eat the fruit that had a defined unwelcome, unpleasant and painful or harmful consequence of death chemystery:Disobediences, dont all necessarily have consequences Are you a bad person? Else you tell me why a not-a-bad-person-that-you-are should have that tendency of doing bad by default? All the time, people do bad things, but that dont necessarily mean they are bad people Do you buy a perfect electrics bulb at all? Do perfect electric bulbs forever remain perfect? It's impossible for you to reproduce here, anywhere from the bible, where and at any time, God explicitly said, He created man perfect because God knew man is a house of cards that will need strengthening and before Adam, God already had in place a warranty plan chemystery:Affirmative, it is disobedience to God's command that made man eat the fruit and death is the consequence of eating the fruit. Period If disobedience precedes death, why would death bring about disobedience? What brought about the disobedience were 3 things: #1 - fruit that was good to eat, #2 - nice to look at, and #3 - desirable for making someone wise chemystery:Affirmative. The second man is, case in point and a testament to this fact and truth 1 Like |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by MuttleyLaff: 5:21pm On Aug 06, 2017 |
GoodMuyis:GoodMuyis, hi Bro I am ever present, it's just that, you only see me comment after I've picked and chosen battles Since lots of posters like to post on the Religion forum for the sake of just causing controversy and sucking up to moderators for petty FP over time, one gets to know if or when, it's a right time to speak up for, speak against or to just let the something slide and be. Alternatively, be silent until you can be the loudest. |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by MuttleyLaff: 5:26pm On Aug 06, 2017 |
chemystery:You see why I rather God be God, than you Inspite of all of that, God still went ahead with creation and Adam Why? #1 because He is in control and is certain He has has everything under control #2 Sin make it necessary that man needs to be created #3 It means, there will with time, be a world, where the consequence of sin will no more be death, grief, sorrow or pain chemystery:Brilliant question. If Adam and Eve hadn't eaten the fruit, then Cain would have been the product from a man who hasnt fallen from grace and inherited an integrity still intact You do accept that Adam and Eve are the primary target? Satan is a quick on the draw opportunist, and always strikes while the iron is hot Get them, especially Adam, being the template, then everything else about and from them becomes compromised Timing is crucial to Satan's counter-plan as humanity will fall like dominoes, when Adam falls 1 Like |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by MuttleyLaff: 5:26pm On Aug 06, 2017 |
chemystery:If the test had been passed, Adam would have been attended to and Satan would have been dealt with. chemystery:The proof of the pudding is not always in the eating Satan's face lit up with an impish glee, the moment, Adam took the fruit off Eve's hand and ate, and took Adam to the cleaners, on top of having him for breakfast. Isnt it ironic, that the first man had a stern unwelcome and painful experience from eating, whereas the second man had a wide welcome and pleasant experience from not eating Responding your to your ''Prove that passing the first test guarantees that other test would be passed'' Jesus, is the proof that passing the first test guarantees that other test would be passed Because Eve convinced herself with 3 ''justifications'' (i.e. #1 - fruit that was good to eat, #2 - nice to look at, and #3 - desirable for making someone wise) to eat the fruit despite the explicit and expressed command not to eat it the second man, instead of having 1 test like the first man had, was subjected to 3 tests relating to the 3 specific areas that got Eve captivated So, Satan, three times, kept coming after the second man and thank God, 3 times failed To Eve, the fruit that was good to eat, was in fact, the lust of the flesh so Jesus got tested for that (i.e. Whilst hungry, Satan said to Him: If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread) To Eve, the fruit that was desirable for making someone wise, was in fact, the pride of life so Jesus got tested for that (i.e. Satan took Him into the holy city and had Him stand on the highest part of the temple. and said to Jesus, "If you are the Son of God, jump! Scripture says, 'He will put his angels in charge of you. They will carry you in their hands so that you never hit your foot against a rock) To Eve, the fruit that was nice to look at, was in fact, the lust of the eyes so Jesus got tested for that (i.e. the devil took Jesus to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms in the world and their glory and said: I will give You all this if You will bow down and worship me) Experience shapes character and character determines our action(s) Jesus, the second template, passed each 3 tests and many copies are patterned and produced after His image and character GoodMuyis: chemystery:Dont you know when GoodMuyis is teasing you 2 Likes |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by MuttleyLaff: 5:26pm On Aug 06, 2017 |
Wilgrea7:He didnt have to eat the fruit in order for him to tell the difference between good and evil Adam already understood the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, is a tree of good and adversity, that it's a tree of the knowledge of good and difficult or unpleasant experiences, Just like he saw animals and recognised each according to the name he gave each one. Adam, by sheer looking at the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, understood that, it is a tree of the knowledge of good and trouble, misadventure, suffering, affliction, sorrow, distress, hardship, difficulty, pain, misery etcetera oozing instant and an anti-climax death Wilgrea7:You must think Adam was unintelligent and also didnt receive orientation Everything; inanimate objects or not, everybody; kids or not, everyone; incarcerated or not, have various degrees of demarcations, limits, boundaries etcetera where lines are drawn Wilgrea7:He knew that he was not supposed to eat the fruit because he was explicitly told not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and on hindsight should've heeded God's warning not to How do you mean, Adam didnt know eating the fruit was wrong, when the name of the tree is a dead giveaway. What is right in eating off a tree of the knowledge of good and epitome of evil? Knowledge of evil means to bring forth trouble, misadventure, suffering, affliction, sorrow, distress, hardship, difficulty, pain, misery etcetera oozing instant and an anti-climax death Pitch someone else with this line of reasoning jaare. Wilgrea7:Punished? Isnt that an unfair and strong word to use He was told to refrain from eating the fruit and informed that it isnt a worthless command having no consequence for flouting but he made a harsh decision and took a risky action in the hope of getting whatever the desired result was/were Wilgrea7:You seem to have missed the part where the Lord God said: ''The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil'' the above merism, in effect, is saying, Man has eaten the fruit and the pandora box has been opened, letting man now become like one of us, knowing, what is good and trouble, misadventure, suffering, affliction, sorrow, distress, hardship, difficulty, pain, misery etcetera plus instant and anti-climax death, albeit from a bitter lesson. Apparently, the only means for man, to know good and trouble, misadventure, suffering, affliction, sorrow, distress, hardship, difficulty, pain, misery etcetera plus instant and anti-climax death, is if he eats the fruit off the tree of the knowledge of good and evil All Eve's plan, proxy Adam, backfired and the tragedy part is that, curiosity killed two cats chemystery:The real point is that the best is always there for them who leave the choice to God 1 Like |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by MuttleyLaff: 5:27pm On Aug 06, 2017 |
NPComplete:Perfect in relation to man only started to be used for him in the NT Though the first man was made as good as he possibly can be, God never said, man, individually was good What we, however read is: And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. NPComplete:Sorry, apparently you haven't the foggiest idea #1 What God is #2 If or not this God can exist simultaneously and concurrently in more than one place at the same time #3 Why God had to come down to earth in the person of human being #3 What God needed the person and body of a human being for #4 Why Jesus had to patiently wait, 30 years, before He is qualified to start the work of God 1 Like |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by NPComplete: 5:38pm On Aug 06, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: U should have directed this to the guy who that I quoted. He was the one who claimed humans were perfect then they failed Sorry, apparently you haven't the foggiest idea And u do? Lol. Delusions. I am sure u even know what God was doing before he decided to create the earth. Secondly I don't see what this shyte u wrote has to do with my comment which u quoted. |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by chemystery: 5:49pm On Aug 06, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff:You are busy confusing yourself until you gave me the answer I needed. Thanks. I'm glad you agreed with the bolded Disobedience (sinful nature) of man made man eat the fruit. Meaning the concept of original sin is flawed. It wasn't actually the fruit that brought about a sinful world. Adam eating the fruit or not, that sinful nature is already in him. Lol, because I said Christians said god created man perfect, now you want to deny that just to win an argument. Even asking me to give a bible quotation on that. Look above at all the extra biblical explanation you gave without any quotation. You even spoke to the extent I wondered if god now has a nairaland account. I even wanted to ask if you are the Yahweh I will not be surprise if tomorrow you deny all the pointless extra biblical explanation you gave up there just like you have denied that you guys said god created man perfect 2 Likes |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by NPComplete: 6:04pm On Aug 06, 2017 |
chemystery: I swear. I thought I was the only one who noticed the guy's love for bold assertive statements as if he was with God Himself when everything was going down. Two many delusional clowns in Christianity. No wonder there are so many denominations that do not agree with one another because all of them boldly believe they know God 100%. |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by MuttleyLaff: 6:28pm On Aug 06, 2017 |
NPComplete:  Its a FYI NPComplete:I didnt for a second think you would 1 Like |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by MuttleyLaff: 6:28pm On Aug 06, 2017 |
chemystery:  SMH. You must be a comic of some sort Humor us more. What is original sin? Which sin do you perceive or understand as original? You really need to take to my earlier advice to painstakingly read my post before keyboard trigger happy responding back chemystery:I submitted that God never ever said He created man perfect Dont know about winning an argument. Is winning an argument your driving force? chemystery:Biblical quotations arent all time for every Tom, Dick and Harry At the right time and for the right Tom, Dick and Harry, I proffer right biblical quotations chemystery: NPComplete:If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you - James 1:5 For the LORD grants wisdom! From his mouth come knowledge and understanding - Proverbs 2:6 The energy both you put into sarcasm etcetera would be beneficial to youse and youse health if you both humble yourselves and seek the face of the LORD 1 Like |
| Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by chemystery: 7:02pm On Aug 06, 2017 |
NPComplete:It was when I saw where MuttleyLaff countered a fellow Christians claim ( https://www.nairaland.com/3960772/jesus-not-even-willing-die#59062808 ) that I knew him and his goons are all confused. To them, the bible does not mean what it said rather it said what they themselves mean 1 Like |
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