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| 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by uvalued(m): 3:54am On Aug 19, 2017 |
After reading 10 Reasons Why Every Believer Must Speak In Tongues https://www.nairaland.com/3984994/10-reasons-why-every-believer and the various responses from some Christians and most especially otr1 who tried to convince me of the otherwise of Speaking in tongues, I came across this excellent response to Ten hard Questions about Speaking in Tongues by one D Stevenson (in the comment section). Check the various questions raised which I believe covered most of the comments on nairaland and the following answers. Enjpy  http://yuriystasyuk.com/ten-hard-questions-about-speaking-in-tongues-glossolalia-and-xenoglossy/ 1. QUESTION: Why do different charismatic groups have different vowels and accents of glossolalia? ANSWER: First, most charismatic and Pentecostal groups would not automatically accept the genuineness of all other groups that claim to speak in tongues. As a primary example, Oneness Pentecostals (anti-Trinitarian) generally do not believe that Trinitarians are really saved or have the Holy Spirit, so they would not expect the tongues of “false” Trinitarian groups to sound the same as their tongues, which they believe to be authentic. And vice-versa – I do not believe that anti-Trinitarians are fellow believers or have salvation, so I would expect their tongues to be phony, either manufactured humanly or a demonic counterfeit. I recognize that in your later question about non-Christians speaking in tongues, you take issue with the easy dismissal of these things as counterfeits, but the very same argumentation you use is used by atheists in response to the Christian dismissal of non-Christian religions as counterfeits. More on this below. The point here is that your ten points overall lead to the conclusion that ALL tongues are counterfeits, so it is illogical to then reject the possibility that SOME or even most could be counterfeits, and some real. Second, even if tongues were a valid manifestation of the Holy Spirit today, that does not necessarily mean that most people in Pentecostal churches are really doing it (as opposed to mimicking it), or even that most Pentecostals are believers or are saved. Like most evangelical churches many Pentecostal churches are full of people who live in flagrant sin, who are materialistic and superficial, and who are merely religious and have never surrendered their lives to Christ. Even if tongues were real today, it would be entirely possible that most people claiming to speak in tongues are not actually doing so. But this is true for every aspect of Christianity. Most evangelicals claim to base ALL their religious beliefs on the Bible, but very few of them have ever read the whole Bible, and most of them have an extrabiblical holiday (Christmas) as a major part of their annual religious observance. Genuine miraculous healings occur today, but there are many faked healings and exaggerated reports of healings. Genuine answers to prayer occur, but lots of religious people attribute events to their own prayers that would have occurred regardless of their prayers. Evangelicals claim that their churches are bastions of family values, yet the incidence of divorce and remarriage in their churches is similar to that in the general culture. The fact that most “tongues” today have phonetic features correlated to the geographic area or denomination could merely be evidence that an unfortunately small number of the speakers are genuine. If both of those answers seem to easy, here is a third: throughout your post about tongues, you seem to assume that tongues, if genuine, would be a single, universal heavenly language, and would sound the same everywhere. I reject this assumption. None of the biblical passages about glossolalia seems to indicate that it always sounded the same in the New Testament era. Some Pentecostals believe that glossolalia is really xenoglossy. There are approximately 8,000 spoken languages in the world right now, and presumably several thousand that have gone extinct over the centuries. It is possible, therefore that different believers (or even groups of believers) are speaking different languages unknown to them. 1 Like 3 Shares
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| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by uvalued(m): 3:54am On Aug 19, 2017 |
Continued More likely, I believe, is the possibility that genuine tongues is not a pre-established language of communication (whether earthly or heavenly) but could be a spontaneously-created new language. Most Pentecostals believe that they have a personal prayer language that differs from everyone else’s. The biblical passages about glossolalia would even allow for the possibility that each occurrence of tongues is a new language spontaneously generated by the Holy Spirit. I haven’t observed the degree of uniformity that you describe – in any charismatic or Pentecostal church I’ve attended, the tongues spoken by different individuals sounded very different. In addition, speakers of various languages have a very difficult time making certain sounds that are not part of their language. Many non-English speakers struggle, for example, with the “th” sounds in English, or with pronouncing certain combinations of consonants like those in “squirrel.” (Try to get a native speaker of Portuguese to say, “Squirrel” properly). I grew up in the United States, and I struggled with gutturals and pharyngeal letters when I studied Arabic. I understand that God COULD miraculously enable Portuguese Pentecostals to articulate beautiful “th” sounds and words like “squirrel” as part of their glossolalia, but it is just as possible that the Holy Spirit would normally manifest variations of glossolalia that believers in that geo-linguistic region can easily get out. Similarly, I do not expect Americans to memorize as much of the Bible as believers in non-literate societies would do, and I do not expect believers in societies with no written language to read and think about the Scriptures in the same way that Americans can and do. 2. Why did glossolalia exist before the birth of Christianity? One could more easily ask why death-and-resurrection stories exist in paganism (Mithras and Baal) before Christianity, or the concept of having Sacred Scriptures, or healing, or baptism. Is there any aspect of Christianity that did not exist before the birth of Christianity? This argument reminds me of unbelievers who think that the Epic of Gilgamesh somehow disproves the biblical story of Noah’s Flood, or that overlapping concepts between Christianity and Zoroastrianism undermine the legitimacy of the gospel, or that the overlaps of the Christian morality in the Epistles with that of the Stoics somehow negates the divine inspiration of the Epistles. Every type of miracle recorded in the New Testament is also present in pre-Christian Judaism or pagan religions. I would expect that to be the case whether Christianity were true or false. Ideals of brotherly love, self-sacrifice, grace, forgiveness, and other favorite doctrines of self-congratulatory modernist Christians are all visible in various pre-Christian religious sources, albeit not all put together in the same overall package as Christianity. If Christianity is true and tongues is valid, then it is unsurprising to find both counterfeits and genuine divine manifestations of the gift before the manifestation in the early church. 3. Why did Jesus forbid prayer with babbling/long repetitions if he was going to give it as a special gift? Again, this seems to be an argument for rejecting parts of Acts and 1 Corinthians rather than modern phenomenon that claim to be biblical glossolalia. This is hardly the only instance in which two superficially contradictory passage of Scripture need to be reconciled by believers today. Jesus elsewhere tells us to keep praying and not give up – so one must reconcile the anti-repetition passage with Jesus’ own injunction to reiterate (regularly) our prayers that are yet unanswered. |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by uvalued(m): 3:55am On Aug 19, 2017 |
continued The real contradiction seems to be between what Jesus says here and the traditions that have developed in some Pentecostal denominations for speaking in tongues at length. One could take Jesus’ warning as a caution that praying in tongues should be brief rather than prolonged, an idea that most Pentecostals have never considered. In the context, though, Jesus is actually focused not merely on the repetitiousness of the prayer or the babbling aspect, but on the fact that the pagans believe that repetition makes divine response more likely. Perhaps some misguided Pentecostals think that praying in tongues for an hour makes some desired more likely to happen than if they had prayed only thirty minutes, but that would seem to be the type of foolishness Jesus is attacking here. His recommended alternative is not “Always pray in your native language” but rather to pray in faith and simplicity. 4. Why do non Christian religions include glossolalia as part of their worship? Very few non-Christian religions include glossolalia – the examples you give are rather obscure, and are just as much hearsay as the examples of xenoglossy that you so quickly dismiss later. Why not ask the same question about the Bible? Every major non-Christian religion has a Holy Book or Scriptures – does that discredit the Christian claims about the validity of the Bible? Most non-Christian religions believer in miraculous answers to prayer – again, does that mean Christians should stop praying for things? Most non-Christians religions include fasting as part of their religious observance for the devout. Most encourage charity and love to one’s neighbor. Most encourage some type of monogamous sexual morality. Why is glossolalia any different in this regard? 5. If interpretation is the main purpose, why do we almost never see interpreted glossolalia? You must have been in the wrong churches. I spent most of my adult life in a denomination where tongues ALWAYS had interpretation if it occurred in a service. The Assemblies and some other large Pentecostal denominations simply developed a tradition in this regard that contradicts the injunctions in 1 Corinthians. Yet that raises the main answer to your question. 1 Corinthians indicates that the church in Corinth had tongues occurring without interpretation most of the time, which occasioned Paul’s words of correction. Your argument against modern tongues is equally an argument against the New Testament incidents of tongues. If interpretation was the main purpose, why were so many people in Corinth using glossolalia without an accompanying interpretation? |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by uvalued(m): 4:14am On Aug 19, 2017 |
continued 6. If modern tongues are the same as those in Acts, why is there no verifiable xenoglossy? It is not clear what occurred in Acts 2, except that it is obviously not the same thing that happened in Corinth and Ephesus. Acts 2 is not necessarily xenoglossy – the audience mentions that at least 15 language groups were able to hear the preaching in their own tongues. Those who believe that xenoglossy occurred here must believe that each apostle was speaking a different language (one of those mentioned), at the same time to the same crowd, which I think would have been impossible to understand. An easier interpretation of Acts 2 is that the apostles all spoke in various glossolalia, and everyone heard all of them in his own language (that is, a miracle of interpretation occurred at the same time for each person). Acts 2 was a special event that laid the groundwork for the spread of the early church across the civilized world within a generation – pilgrims who had visited Jerusalem for the feast days that year would all return to their own lands and cities having heard the gospel – they would either start small groups of nascent churches, or would be predisposed to embrace the gospel when apostles and evangelists eventually reached them on missionary trips. The phenomenon described in 1 Corinthians 12-14 seems to be merely a small part of a regular worship service – a very different event. 7. If glossolalia is a real language, why are different interpretations given for the same phrase? Most of these so-called “interpreters” are not genuine. You cite but one study where someone found various people who claimed to be able to interpret tongues. I have no reason for believing ANY of these people are genuine. I believe there would be just one interpretation for a given message in tongues. At the same time, I do not believe that “interpretation” means “translation.” Nor do I think that the Bible suggests that glossolalia are “real languages” in the sense of a shared dialect by some community of speakers. It is entirely possible that each instance of Glossolallia is a spontaneously-generated new language, and that the “interpretation” is a prophetic word in the hearer’s own language – they are not “understanding” the syllables and words the glossolalia speaker is uttering, but only the message. I anticipate the follow-up question, “Why does God not skip a step and simply give the interpretation as a prophecy?” I do not know, but I also do not know for sure why fasting matters to God, or the fact that we pray or worship. It is his sovereign choice. |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by uvalued(m): 4:17am On Aug 19, 2017 |
continued 8. Why can people be trained to speak in tongues, apart from supernatural intervention? This is completely bogus. People claiming to be trained in tongues are not experiencing biblical glossolalia, any more than Catholics who pray to relics for healing are experiencing biblical healing. Medieval monks claimed to be trained in holiness, but were merely trained in solitude and a monastic lifestyle, not a Spirit-transformed character. Finding extreme abuses by someone somewhere is an easy task regarding ANY component of Christianity. 9. If glossolalia is an essential part of Christian prayer, why didn’t Jesus mention it at all? Again, we could ask this very same rhetorical question about a long list of things that the Epistles emphasize but that the Gospels never mention. A more troubling question, for example, is why Jesus talks so little about the idea of substitutionary atonement or propitiation if it is the core of the gospel, why he never explains church government or the function of elders and deacons (or their ordination), and why he never discusses Christian marriage and childrearing, except to condemn divorce and remarriage. Similarly, most Christians believe that “worship” is an essential part of the Christian life, but Jesus hardly mentions it at all. Jesus never mentions the importance of Christians reading the Bible, either. I have trouble finding any passages in the Gospels that spell out concepts like Total Depravity (apart from general references to people being sinful), Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, or Perseverance of the saints. I would have expected Jesus to address these points more, especially given how central they have become to modern evangelicalism. Tongues is one I would not have expected Jesus to cover much at all, because it had so little relevance to the immediate Jewish context – it would only become relevant in the churches. Paul’s discussion in 1 Corinthians 14 seems to suggest that tongues was especially relevant in Gentile contexts. In any case, tongues is far down the list of topics that we wish Jesus discussed. |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by uvalued(m): 4:21am On Aug 19, 2017 |
finally, 10. Why is Christian glossolalia almost unheard of before 1901 Topeka Kansas? One could ask the same question about the great doctrines of Sola Scriptura and Salvation by Faith being absent from Christian theology for 1000 years before the Reformers. Why are missionaries almost unheard of for the 1000 years before the Moravians? It was nearly 200 years after the Protestant Reformation before Protestants realized their duty to evangelized unreached peoples. Altar calls (and their equivalent) were unheard of before the 1830s – should we forbid these as well? Indeed, the idea of a “sinner’s prayer” – a single prayer to mark a conversion-salvation experience – is hard to find in church history before the Great Awakenings in the United States. Congregational singing of hymns is also a fairly recent development in church history. For how many centuries was it unheard of for individual Christians to have a copy of the Bible or to read it? For the middle half of church history – 1000 years – most so-called Christians did not read the Bible, did not understand biblical salvation, worshiped and prayed to Mary, and attended churches led by a corrupt, immoral hierarchy. It is not at all surprising that New Testament spiritual gifts faded as the churches filled with baptized pagans – nominal Christians – after the time of Constantine. Once most of the “Christians” were unregenerate unbelievers, one would expect spiritual gifts and miracles to become extraordinarily rare, as they did. After the Reformation, each generation went deeper in rediscovering biblical doctrines and practices. As I said, it took centuries before Christians rediscovered concepts like personal relationship with Christ, missions, evangelism, regular devotional reading of Scripture by individuals, and so on. It is not that surprising that eventually, someone would fixate on the passages about tongues and prophecy in the New Testament and start praying for God to restore these experiences to the church. Sadly, most cultural Christians in every age are complacent with whatever form of Christianity surrounds them. They not only fail to look in the Bible to see if there might be more, but even get defensive and reactionary when someone claims to have something more or different (or more biblical) than what everybody else is doing. If tongues occurred at any time in the 1500 years of church history before 1901, it would have been stomped out quickly and forgotten, just as many of features of modern Christianity were. 1 Like |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by uvalued(m): 7:27am On Aug 19, 2017 |
let me add my 11 11. Why did all present IN acts 2 hear the apostle speaking in intelligent language not the unintelligent gibberrish and gruntsi sometimes wonder how some selectively choose to ignore those that heard the apostles and mocked them. in experiments, we have two set test group and control group . the test group are the various people of different language who heard THEM in their language by the miracle of the Spirit while the control group are those in vs 13 which after hearing the apostles said
therefore the control group give us an understanding that what they heard was what made them mock them and how can it be intelligently spoken? |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by otr1(m): 8:39am On Aug 20, 2017 |
uvalued:I think the person who responded to the salient points raised by Stevenson is economical with the truth and only danced around the points, avoiding, or rather, ignoring some parts of it. Tongue-talkers lay claim to speaking in some angelic/heavenly tongues, not some earthly languages. So the argument of whether tongue talkers are speaking in one of the thousands of existing and lost earthly languages does not suffice. So, with the claim of speaking the tongues of angels, variations in tones that seems to correlate to the language of the various speakers, should not come up. Or shall we say Angels do have different dialects in heaven? More so, most tongue speaking I know and hear do not bear any semblance to any language, living or dead. They are mostly repetition of few phrases, all the time. In my own opinion, the argument is not whether the tongues vary with speakers, it is about whether it is biblical at all. Our generation is witnessing the growing menace of satanic activity in the realm of the miraculous. Where the Devil does not succeed in taking the Bible from us, he works hard at taking us from the Bible. And he succeeds in getting Christians to focus their attention on the claims of men and women to some supernatural experience, and in so doing those seekers after the experiences of others have neither time nor interest in searching the Scriptures for God’s truth. It would be an arbitrary and strange interpretation of Scripture that would make tongues-speaking in the New Testament anything other than known languages. There is no trace of Scriptural evidence that tongues were ever heard by anyone as incoherent, incomprehensible babbling. All the usages of tongues in Paul’s treatment of the subject refer to foreign languages. “So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into air” ( 1 Corinthians 14:9). There is no reason for anyone to speak except to converse intelligibly. The Greek word laleo means “I speak.” The word is never used for mere sound or noise. Nor is it used for a mere muttering of unintelligible gibberish. The tongues-speaking in the New Testament was in the native languages of hearing people, and not some angelic/heaven tongues. I think the gift of tongues is irrelevant past the time when the Bible was being written. "if there be tongue, it shall cease"..." that the imperfect may give way to the perfect". We now have the written Word of God in almost all the languages of the world and anyone can evangelize in any part of the world speaking only the language he understands- we now have people who have learned one or more languages apart from theirs who can interprete. This is why we didn't hear or read of anything close to what happened at pentecost after the 1st century. That which is perfect "The Bible" is here. So no more need for gifts of languages, neither are we required to pray to God in an "unknown" tongues (assuming there is anything like it). Peace. 6 Likes |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by otr1(m): 9:15am On Aug 20, 2017 |
uvalued:I will address when I have time. The reasons are biblical. |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by MyNewJackeT: 10:59am On Aug 20, 2017 |
Please is lalasticlala a formal of speaking I tongues? 1 Like |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by rejosom(m): 11:00am On Aug 20, 2017 |
one must really speak in tongues before reading all these. 6 Likes |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by Histrings08(m): 11:00am On Aug 20, 2017 |
I'll come ND read later |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by abbaapple: 11:01am On Aug 20, 2017 |
Warris di  Is too long dude!  5 Likes |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by Nobody: 11:02am On Aug 20, 2017 |
Ok |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by Pavore9: 11:03am On Aug 20, 2017 |
Whatever floats anyone's boat. |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by Alexbrain(m): 11:04am On Aug 20, 2017 |
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| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by djeezy(m): 11:09am On Aug 20, 2017 |
I don't understand why people who speak in tongues these days can't even speak a language someone will acknowledge. Same pattern, and utter gibberish. In the bible atleast people couldn't understand that they spake in their language but today nobody understands what they are saying. I also heard a particular church teaches people how to speak in tongues. I won't mention names. 1 Like |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by ikejona57(m): 11:14am On Aug 20, 2017 |
lemme book space here first...I'll be back to read through |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by naijahut: 11:16am On Aug 20, 2017 |
What is this guy saying self? Don't confuse others with what you don't know 1 Like |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by adjoviomole(m): 11:17am On Aug 20, 2017 |
Speaking in tongues is not speaking gibberish......... The Bible said you will speak in tongues according to how the holy spirit gives you to speak. You cannot speak in tongues except the holy ghost comes upon you. If you are a sinner and you think you are speaking in tongues, you are deceiving yourself. When you speak in tongue you will speak a definite language spoken here on earth, a language you have never spoken, you will speak it fluently..... The disciples spoke in tongues and those who heard them understood what they were saying. A stark illiterate old woman in my church in Ibadan, she was saved, sanctified and when she was baptised with the holy spirit she spoke fluent Queens English for a while as the spirit took control.. Speaking in tongues is not rabAraba reke bababababab bobo bobo, lababosh blah blah blah...... 10 Likes |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by Dottore: 11:18am On Aug 20, 2017 |
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| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by MadCow1: 11:24am On Aug 20, 2017 |
Ok |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by grandstar(m): 11:41am On Aug 20, 2017 |
In the account in Acts of the Apostles, foriwgm speaking Jews understood when they spoke in tongues. Nowadays, what they utter is gibberish. The Economist magazine said they are, "blabbing nonsense!" |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by rezy15(m): 11:50am On Aug 20, 2017 |
All I knw is today's speaking in tongues is suspect. For the pple thinking the apostles were drunk is understandable. Only a Chinese man would understand a man speaking in chinese in a remote village where nobody hears Chinese and speak only IBO there. Everyone there would think he's drunk. I believe the gift of speaking in tongues was to hasten spread of the gospel like Philip being to convert the Ethiopian. A Galilean speaking Ethiopian? Naturally unheard but it did. Its not babble like nowadays 1 Like |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by Originalsly: 12:01pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
Lol...what hard questions? ...OP is full of it...just like those who be making noise mocking God but seriously claiming they be speaking in tongues.... just like the Diciples did on the Day of Pentecost. Can a tongue speaker ...one who the Holy Spirit gives the gift on Sundays only during the time slot allowed by the Pastor...help me understand why the one speaking in tongue has no clue what he's saying?...nor those around him?. I thought the Bible said if this is the case he should basically sit down and shut up... so why do the opposite? ...keep standing and shouting in church?...isn't this the direct opposite of what God instructed?..then how can one claim to be on God's side when he is doing the direct opposite? ...let me go check what the Bible says about hypocrites.....while I wait for an answer... and pleaseeeeeee..... don't serve me the "some things are spiritual and only the spiritual minds will understand" answer. |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by Alitair(m): 12:12pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
Speaking in tongues. Ignorant set of humans trying to re-create the pentecostal fire in the bible stories. Speak no evil_as far as you are not cursing me, carry on. That one is not my business_ |
| Re: 10 Hard Questions About Speaking In Tongues With Answers by thayora: 12:21pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
Op I doubt it if you will make heaven with that long epistles you copy and paste above. Did you even read through it ? I know you will answer yes ..continue 2 Likes |
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