WetinConsignMe:


U still did not answer the question. What would various environments mean?

cant you see that i deliberately did not choose to answer you again? the dream experience is not yours so why are you so hell bent on another persons personal dream experience.

Babalawos:
Yes to your two questions. I strongly believe you have a Christian background and you know how accurate Joseph dreams was and how he interpreted the dreams of others including Pharaoh that came to pass. Don't doubt dreams, they are messages from spirit.

Ogbe the first Odu (Apostle) of Orunmila never went to IFA school or serve any Babalawo to learn IFA. He learnt IFA through dreams and I know several Babalawos that learnt Ebo (sacrifice), medicines, charms preparations and strong incantations through dreams.

Aboru Aboye.

Sir, I have a question :. What is the connection of traditional Youba religion with Ritual killings. Does it frown against it or encourages it , or is indifferent about it?

Thank you Sir.

McTobe:
cant you see that i deliberately did not choose to answer you again? the dream experience is not yours so why are you so hell bent on another persons personal dream experience.

How do u know it's not.mine? Is flying in dreams restricted to one person? Anyway u simply don't know what it means. But u have tried sha

drphantom:


Oga! Try read dictionary na?!?!?!

Is this some sort of a joke? You keep proving the opposite. The definition you just gave says reincarnation is the rebirth of a soul/spirit in another body. That is what I said. THAT IS REINCARNATION.

Chukabiz1961:
Okay lets forget all these and do the things that are pleasing to God which are obedient and love. Thanks.

You should add "at least that's what the bible says".
Don't be so authoritative about God's nature

darkhorizon:


Aboru Aboye.

Sir, I have a question :. What is the connection of traditional Youba religion with Ritual killings. Does it frown against it or encourages it , or is indifferent about it?

Thank you Sir.

Oga babalawos come and answer questions. U can't just disappear.

WetinConsignMe:


Is this some sort of a joke? You keep proving the opposite. The definition you just gave says reincarnation is the rebirth of a soul/spirit in another body. That is what I said. THAT IS REINCARNATION.

Dude you are not getting the point.

Read my original response.

Then read the Bible verses themselves.

Your responses suggest that you think they support your arguement.

They do not support reincarnation as defined as the transfer of one soul to another body.

Simple

WetinConsignMe:


You should add "at least that's what the bible says".
Don't be so authoritative about God's nature

Remember, i said there is free will for all. That is why i have been careful not to impose my religion on anybody. When you hear the word and ponder over it, you decide. Faith comes by hearing.

WetinConsignMe:


Wrong. Totally wrong. So, far from feeling any bad conscience about it, if someone enjoys, say, killing people, he hasn't done anything wrong? ISIS, Boko Haram are not doing anything wrong?
Besides it contradicts the xtianity u profess - if u don't believe Christ died 4 your sins u r headed 4 hell, conscience or no conscience

I am happy you are sounding christian. When Saul was killing christians, did his conscience not tell him? When he, Paul became winner of souls, did he not know the difference? I don't have time to write what he said after repentance because of my schedule. Christ died for my sin!

drphantom:


Dude you are not getting the point.

Read my original response.

Then read the Bible verses themselves.

Your responses suggest that you think they support your arguement.

They do not support reincarnation as defined as the transfer of one soul to another body.

Simple

Dude, are u alright? Seriously.
Here is what u wrote word for word:

Christ revealed that the true intention of the prophecy was not a literal return of Elijah, but his spiritual return in the person of John the Baptist.

You just said that JTB is reincarnation of Elijah.
And u said that in trying to say that JBT is NOT a reincarnation of Elijah!!

I hope there is no alcohol or something involved here.

Chukabiz1961:
Remember, i said there is free will for all. That is why i have been careful not to impose my religion on anybody. When you hear the word and ponder over it, you decide. Faith comes by hearing.

You obviously did not read what I wrote about free will. Here it is again:

Environment u were born into, biology, above all else, how your brain works, determine your choices yet u never chose any of those things. If u were born with a predisposition to drugs into a drug-infested area u have almost 100% chance of becomming a drug addict. Also, consider this:

We know that changes to brain chemistry can alter behavior—otherwise neither alcohol nor antipsychotics would have their desired effects. The same holds true for brain structure: Cases of ordinary adults becoming murderers or pedophiles after developing a brain tumor demonstrate how dependent we are on the physical properties of our gray stuff.

Many scientists say that the American physiologist Benjamin Libet demonstrated in the 1980s that we have no free will. It was already known that electrical activity builds up in a person’s brain before she, for example, moves her hand; Libet showed that this buildup occurs before the person consciously makes a decision to move. The conscious experience of deciding to act, which we usually associate with free will, appears to be an add-on, a post hoc reconstruction of events that occurs after the brain has already set the act in motion.

Chukabiz1961:
I am happy you are sounding christian. When Saul was killing christians, did his conscience not tell him? When he, Paul became winner of souls, did he not know the difference? I don't have time to write what he said after repentance because of my schedule. Christ died for my sin!

I honestly don't see how a thinking person can be talking like this. HUMAN CONSCIENCE DOES NOT DETERMINE WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG! It is like saying that if u don't see something then the thing is not there. ISIS, BH, suicide bombers believe what they are doing are noble and honorable!

WetinConsignMe:


Dude, are u alright? Seriously.
Here is what u wrote word for word:

Christ revealed that the true intention of the prophecy was not a literal return of Elijah, but his spiritual return in the person of John the Baptist.

You just said that JTB is reincarnation of Elijah.
And u said that in trying to say that JBT is NOT a reincarnation of Elijah!!

I hope there is no alcohol or something involved here.

I give up.

There is really no getting through to a mind unwilling to consider other possibilities other than its own preconceived notions.

Good day to you sir

drphantom:


I give up.

There is really no getting through to a mind unwilling to consider other possibilities other than its own preconceived notions.

Good day to you sir

You should give up because your argument is fatally flawed. You read something and hurriedly posted it without thinking it through. Here is basically what you posted:

JBT is not a reincarnation of Elijah, he is only the spirit/soul of Elijah that returned in a different body!!!

Next time remember people like me exist, therefore think b4 u post.
Ciao.

WetinConsignMe:


How do u know it's not.mine? Is flying in dreams restricted to one person? Anyway u simply don't know what it means. But u have tried sha

my brother i am addressing his question, moreover he did not go into detail. that not minding if U have any dream that u may think is serious, immediately u wake up from such a dream state just keep calm for some minutes don't think about it just hold the picture of the dream the meaning of the dream will gradually impressed on U (that is my own experience). U may not master this at the first time but if u start practicing this with time u will find out that ur dreams will become clearer to u, u may also prefer to write ur dreams down with time u will see that some of your dreams are interlinked and some dreams are just continuation of a former dream. but we should also note that not all dreams have spiritual meaning, some are just replay of our daily experiences.

McTobe:
my brother i am addressing his question, moreover he did not go into detail. that not minding if U have any dream that u may think is serious, immediately u wake up from such a dream state just keep calm for some minutes don't think about it just hold the picture of the dream the meaning of the dream will gradually impressed on U (that is my own experience). U may not master this at the first time but if u start practicing this with time u will find out that ur dreams will become clearer to u, u may also prefer to write ur dreams down with time u will see that some of your dreams are interlinked and some dreams are just continuation of a former dream. but we should also note that not all dreams have spiritual meaning, some are just replay of our daily experiences.

Thanks for the tips. I'd say 99% of dreams have no deep meaning at all. Remember Pharoah prebably dreamt everyday but only one of his dreams had such significance

Sir I need you to tell me y z it dat twins don't eat snake, monkey and two banana fixed together

McTobe:

1. let us first of all understand that some of the pastors that talks about spirit husband or wife truly see a picture. by picture here i mean vision, i wont go into the degree of their seeing but just note that at most what they see is the second strata of the fine material plane or what is generally called astral plane AND NOT SPIRITUAL PLANE THAT THEY SEE. so quite a number of them sees. we will not go into how they acquire these seeing abilities which also affects how and what you see
2. a picture of the form of a man or a woman, may arise before a pastor in the course of trying to find a solution or pray for a client. the man that the pastor see can be seen holding the lady as his own wife and the picture can continue to show that the man drives away any other man that physically comes to seek the woman's hand in marriage, then the picture fades away. (this is not literally true but the living form of the karma that the lady is passing through or that is already in channel for the lady)
3. now the pastor who does not know anything about reincarnation, the law of sowing and reaping which people call karma and other creation laws will misinterpret the picture he has seen as spiritual or the so called marine husband. but in reality what he has seen is the returning karmaic reaction of what the lady has done in her former earth life maybe some 300 years ago. bear in mind in the first place that it is the same you by u i mean ur spirit that have been dieing and reincarnating in a new body, so the thread of all your previous good deeds and bad deeds follows you until u fully outlive them. when u outlive them they fall off and another misdeed also presents itself for redemption, the same with good reactions
4. trying to give the right explanation to the picture the pastor saw as a vision : it could be that in her former earthlife the woman in question may have married a man that genuinely loved her. but she may not have loved the man or out of sheer personal failing or her weaknesses she may have made the man to suffer so much innocently in her hands, so that in that marriage the man may not have known peace until he died in that life. fast-forward to this earthlife she gets to the age of marriage good men of noble intent approaches her for marriage the karma reaction of that past earthlife marriage that have not manifested in this lifetime crops its ugly head to push away the good men. this will continue until the lady in question will break down or a true cry for help will arise from her soul pushing her to look for solutions.

5. the outcome of the solution she can get will vary according to her true inner state(here i mean her truest inward disposition) if she has truly repented of treating people that genuinely care for her in bad ways, creation can yet afford her another opportunity by allowing her a husband but she will still go through difficult times in that marriage the best she can get in return if she is genuinely a changed person she will symbolically experience suffering which is simply repaying her in her own coins and thus giving her opportunity to make good what she has done wrong before.

6. even if she has not repented she can still be given opportunity to marry but she will experience serious sufferings in the marriage since creation will give her the kind of husband that will help her to make good her wrongs probably a very difficult man but not bad per se

A....BUT U MUST NOTE WELL THAT MY EXAMPLE IS WITH REGARD TO THE SO CALLED SPIRITUAL HUSBANDS AND WIVES.
B....ALSO REINCARNATION IS A GRACE OF GOD OFFERED TO HUMAN BEINGS TO PAY BACK WHAT THEY HAVE DONE THUS GIVING THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE FREE OF THAT EVIL.
C...IN REINCARNATION LIES THE LOVE OF GOD AND JUSTICE AT THE SAME TIME. LOVE IN THE SENSE THAT U ARE OFFERED OPPORTUNITY OF BEING FREE OF YOUR MISDEEDS AND BE ABLE TO MAKE PARADISE OR HEAVEN IF THE ONE IN QUESTION DIES AND JUSTICE IN THE SENSE THAT THE PERSON THAT HAVE TO SUFFER UNJUSTLY IN YOUR HANDS HAVE RECEIVED HIS JUST REWARD.

IT IS ALSO KARMA REACTIONS FROM PAST LIFE THAT SHAPES MOST SITUATIONS IN OUR LIFE EXAMPLE WHERE U ARE BORN, THE FAMILY SITUATION UNDER WHICH U ARE BORN AND MOST OTHER SIGNIFICANT EXPERIENCES OF ONES LIFE TIME. BUT MAN SHOULD NOT BE A SLAVE TO HIS KARMA. IF HE STRIVE TO BE GOOD AND UPRIGHT IN ALL HIS WAYS MOST HEAVY AND MORE SERIOUS KARMA WILL HAVE LITTLE EFFECT ON HIM OR THEY WILL BE REDEEMED SYMBOLLICALY BUT MAN MUST KNOW THAT EVERYTHING HE DOES MUST COME BACK TO HIM.
I AM READY TO GO DEEP INTO THE SUBJECT OF REINCARNATION AS DEEPLY AS NECESSARY TO IMPRESS IT ON ANY ONE THAT CARES TO KNOW THAT REINCARNATION DOES NOT RULE OUT HEAVEN OR HELL FOR THE BOTH ACTUALLY EXIST.

You must be a rosicrucian or adept to know all these

afroxyz:


You must be a rosicrucian or adept to know all these

I am not a Rosicrucian, i read deep into Rosicrucianism, and have friends that are affiliates and applied for a copy of the Mastery of life but eventually i did not affiliate. I am a Grail Message adherent.

WetinConsignMe:


Thanks for the tips. I'd say 99% of dreams have no deep meaning at all. Remember Pharoah prebably dreamt everyday but only one of his dreams had such significance

You are welcome. I will rather say that 99% of our dreams have meanings or is meant to be a pointer for us in our everyday life. But it depends on the individual to pay attention to it. Pharaoh may have had other dreams that had a lot of significance for his people such people of that standing always have such guidance from time to time, U are talking of the one that was reported in the bible. if u are exposed to books about the Pharaohs and Egypt you will know more since d bible is not necessarily about the Pharaohs and their Dreams. I like my conversations with you since you seem like a person that think deep about events.

McTobe:
I am not a Rosicrucian, i read deep into Rosicrucianism, and have friends that are affiliates and applied for a copy of the Mastery of life but eventually i did not affiliate. I am a Grail Message adherent.

No wonder I'm able to see the flaws in these things that u folks can't. I'm not adherent of any fixed thought. I'm just like the child who is able to point out that the emperor has no clothes.

WetinConsignMe:


No wonder I'm able to see the flaws in these things that u folks can't. I'm not adherent of any fixed thought. I'm just like the child who is able to point out that the emperor has no clothes.

WHAT U DONT KNOW...GRAIL MESSAGE IS NOT A CHURCH, A RELIGION OR A SECT, ITS JUST A BOOK . MY GOOD FRIEND, JUST A BOOK. IT IS JUST ON THAT GROUND OF MY NOT ACCEPTING ANYTHING THAT IS SUPERSTITIOUS OR NOT LOGICAL THAT MADE ME TO READ THE BOOK. MAYBE U CAN CHECK OUT THE BOOK

WetinConsignMe:


I honestly don't see how a thinking person can be talking like this. HUMAN CONSCIENCE DOES NOT DETERMINE WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG! It is like saying that if u don't see something then the thing is not there. ISIS, BH, suicide bombers believe what they are doing are noble and honorable!

Why are you using Boko haram & ISIS as example in this issue?

WetinConsignMe:


I honestly don't see how a thinking person can be talking like this. HUMAN CONSCIENCE DOES NOT DETERMINE WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG! It is like saying that if u don't see something then the thing is not there. ISIS, BH, suicide bombers believe what they are doing are noble and honorable!

Wetinconsignme, spiritual things belong to spiritual people while physical things belong to physical people.

WetinConsignMe:


You should give up because your argument is fatally flawed. You read something and hurriedly posted it without thinking it through. Here is basically what you posted:

JBT is not a reincarnation of Elijah, he is only the spirit/soul of Elijah that returned in a different body!!!

Next time remember people like me exist, therefore think b4 u post.
Ciao.

That is not what I was saying. That was your interpretation. Have you considered the possibility of idiomatic expressions in all of this?

You are evidently stuck in your literal linear thinking. I understand that hence my decision to not prolong the argument which will be unproductive till you make the attempt to understand my point.

I bid you a final adieu

McTobe:

1. let us first of all understand that some of the pastors that talks about spirit husband or wife truly see a picture. by picture here i mean vision, i wont go into the degree of their seeing but just note that at most what they see is the second strata of the fine material plane or what is generally called astral plane AND NOT SPIRITUAL PLANE THAT THEY SEE. so quite a number of them sees. we will not go into how they acquire these seeing abilities which also affects how and what you see
2. a picture of the form of a man or a woman, may arise before a pastor in the course of trying to find a solution or pray for a client. the man that the pastor see can be seen holding the lady as his own wife and the picture can continue to show that the man drives away any other man that physically comes to seek the woman's hand in marriage, then the picture fades away. (this is not literally true but the living form of the karma that the lady is passing through or that is already in channel for the lady)
3. now the pastor who does not know anything about reincarnation, the law of sowing and reaping which people call karma and other creation laws will misinterpret the picture he has seen as spiritual or the so called marine husband. but in reality what he has seen is the returning karmaic reaction of what the lady has done in her former earth life maybe some 300 years ago. bear in mind in the first place that it is the same you by u i mean ur spirit that have been dieing and reincarnating in a new body, so the thread of all your previous good deeds and bad deeds follows you until u fully outlive them. when u outlive them they fall off and another misdeed also presents itself for redemption, the same with good reactions
4. trying to give the right explanation to the picture the pastor saw as a vision : it could be that in her former earthlife the woman in question may have married a man that genuinely loved her. but she may not have loved the man or out of sheer personal failing or her weaknesses she may have made the man to suffer so much innocently in her hands, so that in that marriage the man may not have known peace until he died in that life. fast-forward to this earthlife she gets to the age of marriage good men of noble intent approaches her for marriage the karma reaction of that past earthlife marriage that have not manifested in this lifetime crops its ugly head to push away the good men. this will continue until the lady in question will break down or a true cry for help will arise from her soul pushing her to look for solutions.

5. the outcome of the solution she can get will vary according to her true inner state(here i mean her truest inward disposition) if she has truly repented of treating people that genuinely care for her in bad ways, creation can yet afford her another opportunity by allowing her a husband but she will still go through difficult times in that marriage the best she can get in return if she is genuinely a changed person she will symbolically experience suffering which is simply repaying her in her own coins and thus giving her opportunity to make good what she has done wrong before.

6. even if she has not repented she can still be given opportunity to marry but she will experience serious sufferings in the marriage since creation will give her the kind of husband that will help her to make good her wrongs probably a very difficult man but not bad per se

A....BUT U MUST NOTE WELL THAT MY EXAMPLE IS WITH REGARD TO THE SO CALLED SPIRITUAL HUSBANDS AND WIVES.
B....ALSO REINCARNATION IS A GRACE OF GOD OFFERED TO HUMAN BEINGS TO PAY BACK WHAT THEY HAVE DONE THUS GIVING THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE FREE OF THAT EVIL.
C...IN REINCARNATION LIES THE LOVE OF GOD AND JUSTICE AT THE SAME TIME. LOVE IN THE SENSE THAT U ARE OFFERED OPPORTUNITY OF BEING FREE OF YOUR MISDEEDS AND BE ABLE TO MAKE PARADISE OR HEAVEN IF THE ONE IN QUESTION DIES AND JUSTICE IN THE SENSE THAT THE PERSON THAT HAVE TO SUFFER UNJUSTLY IN YOUR HANDS HAVE RECEIVED HIS JUST REWARD.

IT IS ALSO KARMA REACTIONS FROM PAST LIFE THAT SHAPES MOST SITUATIONS IN OUR LIFE EXAMPLE WHERE U ARE BORN, THE FAMILY SITUATION UNDER WHICH U ARE BORN AND MOST OTHER SIGNIFICANT EXPERIENCES OF ONES LIFE TIME. BUT MAN SHOULD NOT BE A SLAVE TO HIS KARMA. IF HE STRIVE TO BE GOOD AND UPRIGHT IN ALL HIS WAYS MOST HEAVY AND MORE SERIOUS KARMA WILL HAVE LITTLE EFFECT ON HIM OR THEY WILL BE REDEEMED SYMBOLLICALY BUT MAN MUST KNOW THAT EVERYTHING HE DOES MUST COME BACK TO HIM.
I AM READY TO GO DEEP INTO THE SUBJECT OF REINCARNATION AS DEEPLY AS NECESSARY TO IMPRESS IT ON ANY ONE THAT CARES TO KNOW THAT REINCARNATION DOES NOT RULE OUT HEAVEN OR HELL FOR THE BOTH ACTUALLY EXIST.

thanks, I'm glad you explained. But can you explain it in a more Christianise way.

Tosinex:
thanks, I'm glad you explained. But can you explain it in a more Christianise way.

How please?

Chukabiz1961:
Wetinconsignme, spiritual things belong to spiritual people while physical things belong to physical people.

If u are not physical then u are not "people". Hence all people are physical. So "spiritual people" in the sense u used it, is nonsense.

Chukabiz1961:
Why are you using Boko haram & ISIS as example in this issue?

Because they are the most handy examples u can relate to. Examples abound of psychopaths who have no conscience whatsoever. Therefore nothing they do is wrong, according to u!

WetinConsignMe:


If u are not physical then u are not "people". Hence all people are physical. So "spiritual people" in the sense u used it, is nonsense.

If you don't know a thing, ask question.

drphantom:


That is not what I was saying. That was your interpretation. Have you considered the possibility of idiomatic expressions in all of this?

You are evidently stuck in your literal linear thinking. I understand that hence my decision to not prolong the argument which will be unproductive till you make the attempt to understand my point.

I bid you a final adieu

Ok. we will let what YOU posted speak for itself without a word from me. Here it is:

Christ revealed that the true intention of the prophecy was not a literal return of Elijah, but his spiritual return in the person of John the Baptist.

God bless.

WetinConsignMe:


Because they are the most handy examples u can relate to. Examples abound of psychopaths who have no conscience whatsoever. Therefore nothing they do is wrong, according to u!

With this, i know you don't really understand me.