Abeg make Una no vex o but let us talk to ourselves.

Today I read something on Nairaland from someone about masturbation and also noted how quickly atheists jumped to his support without critically analysing the other details that were attached to his masturbation and this got me thinking about the stand of atheists when morality is involved.

Now we as Christians know that morality is objective (this means we follow Gods divine law about morality) but an atheist would tell you that it is not. They would say that morality is subjective (which means it is subject to the laws given by the government in that country and how they are interpreted) .

Based on this I wish to ask a question directed at my atheist nairalanders

We know that the constitution of Nigeria and every other nation does not recognise fornication or adultery as a crime so does not legally frown at it. However they frown at rape. As long as the sexual act is consensual between two adults be they married or not, according to the law this is not a crime.

So a married woman can have consensual sex with someone who is not her husband and vice versa and not be seen as a crime as long as both gave consent as adults.

Also a single guy or girl can have multiple partners as long as it was always consensual and the person is an adult according to the law.

So here is my question to atheists.

Is Fornication or adultery wrong?

If you believe and follow a subjective morality would you say it is wrong for your wife or husband to sleep with another man or woman besides you as long as it was consensual?

If you are single, would you say it's perfectly fine and there is nothing wrong with your girlfriend or boyfriend sleeping with other people as long as it was Consensual?

Would you get angry if you saw your wife or husband or boyfriend or girlfriend sleeping with other people even when this was consensual?

I need answers please.

Cc Felixomor, dalaman (Abeg call the others for me)

Cc lalasticlala and mynd44 can we get more contributions please?

HAHN, UR ATTENTI0N IS NEEDED

butterflyl1on:
Abeg make Una no vex o but let us talk to ourselves.

Today I read something on Nairaland from someone about masturbation and also noted how quickly atheists jumped to his support without critically analysing the other details that were attached to his masturbation and this got me thinking about the stand of atheists when morality is involved.

Now we as Christians know that morality is subjective (this means we follow Gods divine law about morality) but an atheist would tell you that it is not. They would say that morality is objective (which means it is subject to the laws given by the government in that country and how they are interpreted) .

Based on this I wish to ask a question directed at my atheist nairalanders

We know that the constitution of Nigeria and every other nation does not recognise fornication or adultery as a crime so does not legally frown at it. However they frown at rape. As long as the sexual act is consensual between two adults be they married or not, according to the law this is not a crime.

So a married woman can have consensual sex with someone who is not her husband and vice versa and not be seen as a crime as long as both gave consent as adults.

Also a single guy or girl can have multiple partners as long as it was always consensual and the person is an adult according to the law.

So here is my question to atheists.

Is Fornication or adultery wrong?

If you believe and follow an objective morality would you say it is wrong for your wife or husband to sleep with another man or woman besides you as long as it was consensual?

If you are single, would you say it's perfectly fine and there is nothing wrong with your girlfriend or boyfriend sleeping with other people as long as it was Consensual?

Would you get angry if you saw your wife or husband or boyfriend or girlfriend sleeping with other people even when this was consensual?

I need answers please.

Cc Felixomor, dalaman (Abeg call the others for me)

This your OP is dead on arrival because it's not an honest one. How can you say that atheist follow an objective morality? Which athiest has ever told you that?

Here is what you wrote.

[They would say that morality is objective (which means it is subject to the laws given by the government in that country and how they are interpreted) .

I am yet to see any atheist claim that morality is objective. All these while I've been arguing for years with other christians that morality is NOT objective. It is the christians here that insist that morality is objective. Ask KingEbukasBlog and other christians that have debate this issue with athiest here. It is the athiest that are always insisting that morality is NOT objective while the christians always insist that morality is objective. Even part of their moral argument begins with objective morality exist hence God exist. KingEbukasBlogalways uses that line from William Craig.

If you enter into a marriage or loving relationship with someone and both of you agree to be faithful to each other throughout and have no external intiimate relationship with others then you are bound to uphold that agreement. If you fail then you have violated it and done something wrong. It's very simple.

butterflyl1on:
Abeg make Una no vex o but let us talk to ourselves.

Today I read something on Nairaland from someone about masturbation and also noted how quickly atheists jumped to his support without critically analysing the other details that were attached to his masturbation and this got me thinking about the stand of atheists when morality is involved.

Now we as Christians know that morality is subjective (this means we follow Gods divine law about morality) but an atheist would tell you that it is not. They would say that morality is objective (which means it is subject to the laws given by the government in that country and how they are interpreted) .

Based on this I wish to ask a question directed at my atheist nairalanders

We know that the constitution of Nigeria and every other nation does not recognise fornication or adultery as a crime so does not legally frown at it. However they frown at rape. As long as the sexual act is consensual between two adults be they married or not, according to the law this is not a crime.

So a married woman can have consensual sex with someone who is not her husband and vice versa and not be seen as a crime as long as both gave consent as adults.

Also a single guy or girl can have multiple partners as long as it was always consensual and the person is an adult according to the law.

So here is my question to atheists.

Is Fornication or adultery wrong?

If you believe and follow an objective morality would you say it is wrong for your wife or husband to sleep with another man or woman besides you as long as it was consensual?

If you are single, would you say it's perfectly fine and there is nothing wrong with your girlfriend or boyfriend sleeping with other people as long as it was Consensual?

Would you get angry if you saw your wife or husband or boyfriend or girlfriend sleeping with other people even when this was consensual?

I need answers please.

Cc Felixomor, dalaman (Abeg call the others for me)

Hmmmm.
You want these people to tell long stories....?

dalaman:


This your OP is dead on arrival because it's not an honest one. How can you say that atheist follow an objective morality? Which athiest has ever told you that?

Here is what you wrote.



I am yet to see any atheist claim that morality is objective. All these while I've been arguing for years with other christians that morality is NOT objective. It is the christians here that insist that morality is objective. Ask KingEbukasBlog and other christians that have debate this issue with athiest here. It is the athiest that are always insisting that morality is NOT objective while the christians always insist that morality is objective. Even part of their moral argument begins with objective morality exist hence God exist. KingEbukasBlogalways uses that line from William Craig.

If you enter into a marriage or loving relationship with someone and both of you agree to be faithful to each other throughout and have no external intiimate relationship with others then you are bound to uphold that agreement. If you fail then you have violated it and done something wrong. It's very simple.

Amended! Oya answer me

dalaman:


This your OP is dead on arrival because it's not an honest one. How can you say that atheist follow an objective morality? Which athiest has ever told you that?

Here is what you wrote.



I am yet to see any atheist claim that morality is objective. All these while I've been arguing for years with other christians that morality is NOT objective. It is the christians here that insist that morality is objective. Ask KingEbukasBlog and other christians that have debate this issue with athiest here. It is the athiest that are always insisting that morality is NOT objective while the christians always insist that morality is objective. Even part of their moral argument begins with objective morality exist hence God exist. KingEbukasBlogalways uses that line from William Craig.

If you enter into a marriage or loving relationship with someone and both of you agree to be faithful to each other throughout and have no external intiimate relationship with others then you are bound to uphold that agreement. If you fail then you have violated it and done something wrong. It's very simple.

But why would it be wrong if the law supports them especially when it is consensual? Is it that we formulate our own morality and often times do not subscribe to those provided by our governments?

Fornication and adultery is only wrong when lying and cheating is involved. I believe humans are naturally polygamous (both men and women), but we are extremely pretentious, so we hold ourselves up to stupid ideals. My wife gets my full, unqualified consent to seek sexual pleasure elsewhere, if I'm ever unable to satisfy her carnal needs. This way, she'll never have to cheat or lie to me. Likewise, if I ever feel sexual attraction towards another woman, I'll also be upfront with my wife. When consent is established between all parties involved, then it's a free world.

AgentOfAllah:
Fornication and adultery is only wrong when lying and cheating is involved. I believe humans are naturally polygamous (both men and women), but we are extremely pretentious, so we hold ourselves up to stupid ideals. My wife gets my full, unqualified consent to seek sexual pleasure elsewhere, if I'm ever unable to satisfy her carnal needs. This way, she'll never have to cheat or lie to me. Likewise, if I ever feel sexual attraction towards another woman, I'll also be upfront with my wife. When consent is established between all parties involved, then it's a free world.

I believe you're saying that in your own opinion, lying and cheating is wrong, not that they are absolutely and necessarily wrong, yes?

DoctorAlien:


I believe you're saying that in your own opinion, lying and cheating is wrong, not that they are absolutely and necessarily wrong, yes?

I feel hurt when someone lies to me and/or cheats me, so yes! Strictly from my experience!

AgentOfAllah:
Fornication and adultery is only wrong when lying and cheating is involved. I believe humans are naturally polygamous (both men and women), but we are extremely pretentious, so we hold ourselves up to stupid ideals. My wife gets my full, unqualified consent to seek sexual pleasure elsewhere, if I'm ever unable to satisfy her carnal needs. This way, she'll never have to cheat or lie to me. Likewise, if I ever feel sexual attraction towards another woman, I'll also be upfront with my wife. When consent is established between all parties involved, then it's a free world.

So take away lying and cheating and adultery and fornication become right.

So your wife has your permission to play when you cannot play anymore and if you walk in on her being bedded by another man based on your already given consent you would cheer him/her on and probably get a good sitting position too for sake of observation.

So everyone is free to boink everyone despite being married as long as consent was given. So adultery or fornication is Cool to carry out and is not wrong.

Okay got you

butterflyl1on:


But why would it be wrong if the law supports them especially when it is consensual? Is it that we formulate our own morality and often times do not subscribe to those provided by our governments?

Of course we formulate our own morality that do not agree with that of the government. The Nigerian government doesn't care about people marrying outside their religion but many Nigerians will not even agree to marry outside their sect or denominarion talk more of marrying outside their religion. Many consider marrying outside your religion a bad thing even though the constitution and government allows it.

When you enter into an agreement that you are going to remain faithful to a partner in front of everybody on your wedding day, it then becomes very wrong to violate that promise and go against it. Its so simple and doesn't even need to be debated on.

recycled bullshit thread.
https://www.nairaland.com/3138198/does-god-exist-moral-argument

AgentOfAllah:

I feel hurt when someone lies to me and/or cheats me, so yes! Strictly from my experience!

So while you see the person who lied to and/or cheated you as having done wrong, the person has not necessarily done wrong.

Good.

dalaman:


Of course we formulate our own morality that do not agree with that of the government. He Nigerian government doesn't care about people marrying outside their religion but many Nigerians will not even agree to marry outside their sect or denominarion talk more of marrying outside their religion. Many consider marrying outside your religion a bad thing even though the constitution and government allows it.

When you enter into an agreement that you are going to remain faithful to a partner on front of everybody on your wedding day, it then becomes very wrong to violate that promise and go against it. Its so simple and doesn't even need to be debated on.

Verbal agreements are broken daily. The law only recognises black and white.

How can breaking a verbal agreement be a crime when another verbal agreement was entered between the man/woman and someone else based on consensual sex?

There is no written document in marriage or a relationship that has your Dos and don'ts listed out in marriage or that relationship so what then is your legal backing to the agreement that makes breaking it wrong?

In marriage in the church or in the courts you get given a marriage certificate and nowhere on that certificate are rules guiding the marriage and the attached penalties for breaking them according to the law written.

So how then is it wrong?

Proudgorgeousga:
recycled bullshit thread.

https://www.nairaland.com/3138198/does-god-exist-moral-argument

We are not talking about the existence of God but on atheist thoughts on morality with fornication and adultery in focus. Thank you

butterflyl1on:


So take away lying and cheating and adultery and fornication become right.

So your wife has your permission to play when you cannot play anymore and if you walk in on her being bedded by another man based on your already given consent you would cheer him/her on and probably get a good sitting position too for sake of observation.

So everyone is free to boink everyone despite being married as long as consent was given. So adultery or fornication is Cool to carry out and is not wrong.

Okay got you

She can play anytime she likes! Her body, her right! So, yep, pretty much...except the walking in on them bit...that'll just be awkward. I hope I get advance notice if they're to do it at home.

DoctorAlien:


So while you see the person who lied to and/or cheated you as having done wrong, the person has not necessarily done wrong.

Good.

The person has done wrong by me!

AgentOfAllah:

She can play anytime she likes! Her body, her right! So, yep, pretty much...except the walking in on them bit...that'll just be awkward. I hope I get advance notice if they're to do it at home.

Hmm her body, her rights!

She can play anytime she likes!

Noted!

However since its her body and her rights why then did you get married to her?

butterflyl1on:


We are not talking about the existence of God but on atheist thoughts on morality with fornication and adultery in focus. Thank you

don't quote me again. I hate fraudsters thanks.

AgentOfAllah:

She can play anytime she likes! Her body, her right! So, yep, pretty much...except the walking in on them bit...that'll just be awkward. I hope I get advance notice if they're to do it at home.

Proudgorgeousga:


don't quote me again. I hate fraudsters thanks.

Haaa! Your village people have finally opened your file. Me fraudster? Did I defraud your family or who?

butterflyl1on:


Verbal agreements are broken daily. The law only recognises black and white.

How can breaking a verbal agreement be a crime when another verbal agreement was entered between the man/woman and someone else based on consensual sex?

There is no written document in marriage or a relationship that has your Dos and don'ts listed out in marriage or that relationship so what then is your legal backing to the agreement that makes breaking it wrong?

In marriage in the church or in the courts you get given a marriage certificate and nowhere on that certificate are rules guiding the marriage and the attached penalties for breaking them according to the law written.

So how then is it wrong?

Breaking an agreement is wrong end of story. The fact that people do it always doesn't make ot right. If you enter into am agreement and you break it then it is wrong. It doesn't have to be spelt out by law.
Agreeing to remain faithful to a partner and failing to uphold it makes it wrong end of story.

dalaman:


Breaking an agreement is wrong end of story. The fact that people do it always doesn't make ot right. If you enter into am agreement and you break it then it is wrong. It doesn't have to be spelt out by law.
Agreeing to remain faithful to a partner and failing to uphold it makes it wrong end of story.

You are missing it dalaman. The focus is not on the agreement but on the act of fornication and adultery.

Is it wrong? The agreement seems to be your focus but not the act of adultery or fornication itself.

Take away the agreement is fornication and adultery then right?

butterflyl1on:


You are missing it dalaman. The focus is not on the agreement but on the act of fornication and adultery.

Is it wrong? The agreement seems to be your focus but not the act of adultery or fornication itself.

Take away the agreement is fornication and adultery then right?

The act is wrong because the act violates an already laid down agreement. When you are in a monogamous relationship it simply means that you have agreed and promised to stay away from other partners and be commited to one. Engaging in sexual activities with others means you have broken your promise or vow. It is always good to uphold your promise and it is bad when you fail to do that. It is a very simple thing and I don't know why you are wasting your time arguing about it.

dalaman:


The act is wrong because the act violates an already laid down agreement. When you are in a monogamous relationship it simply means that you have agreed and promised to stay away from other partners and be commited to one. Engaging in sexual activities with others means you have broken your promise or vow. It is always good to uphold your promise and it is bad when you fail to do that. It is a very simple thing and I don't know why you are wasting your time arguing about it.

So the agreement is what makes it wrong but not the act itself.

Agentofallah says he is Okay as long as their is consent and you say you are not Okay because an agreement was broken. But would you be Okay if there was consent? Would you be willing to give consent to your wife for her to bed another man?

If you say breaking the agreement is wrong (though not a crime) then can giving her consent be right despite being married to her?

dalaman:


The act is wrong because the act violates an already laid down agreement. When you are in a monogamous relationship it simply means that you have agreed and promised to stay away from other partners and be commited to one. Engaging in sexual activities with others means you have broken your promise or vow. It is always good to uphold your promise and it is bad when you fail to do that. It is a very simple thing and I don't know why you are wasting your time arguing about it.

when you make your point leave em with their foolishness unless you enough time to engage in nonsense arguments till thread gets to 50pages of nonsense.

butterflyl1on:


So the agreement is what makes it wrong but not the act itself.

Agentofallah says he is Okay as long as their is consent and you say you are not Okay because an agreement was broken. But would you be Okay if there was consent? Would you be willing to give consent to your wife for her to bed another man?

If you say breaking the agreement is wrong (though not a crime) then can giving her consent be right despite being married to her?

You deliberately want to keep misunderstanding my position.

The act itself is wrong and I've stated why it is wrong.

I am not Agentofallah.

AgentOfAllah:
Fornication and adultery is only wrong when lying and cheating is involved. I believe humans are naturally polygamous (both men and women), but we are extremely pretentious, so we hold ourselves up to stupid ideals. My wife gets my full, unqualified consent to seek sexual pleasure elsewhere, if I'm ever unable to satisfy her carnal needs. This way, she'll never have to cheat or lie to me. Likewise, if I ever feel sexual attraction towards another woman, I'll also be upfront with my wife. When consent is established between all parties involved, then it's a free world.

Hope you know that humans are also very selfish in nature, and hence can LIE consequently to satisfy their interest if it gets to that point..

I think this pattern of reasoning is flawed, if we were to succumb to all our feelings because its in our nature, then there will be no atom of difference between a man and an animal.

Proudgorgeousga:


when you make your point leave em with their foolishness unless you enough time to engage in nonsense arguments till thread gets to 50pages of nonsense.

Roger.

butterflyl1on:



Hmm her body, her rights!

She can play anytime she likes!

Noted!

However since its her body and her rights why then did you get married to her?

Great question! I actually believe the institution of marriage is inherently dumb, and I'd rather it didn't exist. But it does exist, and provides certain legal protections for all parties involved. If someone will bear kids for me, then I'm prepared to relinquish parts of my principles to afford her such legal protections.