JackBizzle:



I hope you are seeing the dubious side of butterflyl1on.

Far back, I had already mentioned that abortions mostly happen within the first 12 weeks. He ignored it and now, he is putying forward abortions that are close to birth.

There was even a 7months pregnancy in one of the links WTF?

JackBizzle:



I hope you are seeing the dubious side of butterflyl1on.

Far back, I had already mentioned that abortions mostly happen within the first 12 weeks. He ignored it and now, he is putying forward abortions that are close to birth.

your idiocy is amazing. Do you have to start a comment by saying something derogatory all the time?

Nowhere is it a law that mothers abort early. Many also abort late and either kill or leave the aborted fetus to die. What I am saying is that be it early or late abortion is wrong which was why I gave those links about abortion survivors telling their own story. They are all glad they survived their parents abortion attempts even though some of them suffered deformities from the failed abortion attempts they were still glad they were alive.

You have no right to take the life of anyone or stop the right to life of a fetus.

They have a choice too.

JackBizzle:



See how you dodge issues and twist?

We are talking about fetuses and pregnant women dying for the unborn. You are now twisting it by asking "would you take a bullet for your child". Sir, we are talking about fetuses not children.

Secondly, you dodged. Please answer the direct question- would yoi tell your wife to die for the fetus if there are complocations in the pregnancy?


Do you even considser that she could have other children or live another day to adopt?

a fetus is a child in process. Have you ever seen a child who was never once a child? My opinion says that the fetus is a child in process. everything that is present in an adult human is present in the small embryo or the fetus as the case may be.

If I was married and I was given the option of choosing one to live. Be it my baby or wife I would choose both because there is always a chance. If normal delivery would pose a problem then the baby would be cut out via cesarean section and artificially nursed.

My position is that there is always a chance no matter how small.

wirinet:


That was what I have been trying to explain to the guy, that the examples in the report is not valid for what we are talking about. Most pro choice supporters do not support aborting a 23 weeks pregnancy. That is almost 5 months for god sake. The process of aborting a 5 months pregnancy is no different from carrying the pregnancy to term and then murdering the baby. The ethical and moral dilemma is the same, you kill a fully formed baby, you put it in a nylon bag and dump in a bush, refuse dump or the lagoon.

What I have been talking about is aborting the pregnancy within 6 weeks of conception, here the embryo is just a mass of cells just attempting to implant itself into the uterus. Aborting it a simply process of simply preventing it from implanting itself. There are drugs that can be used to achieve such or simple vacuum pumps that can be inserted into the vagina and the whole mass is pumped out. This is not much different from taking family planning pills or injections, the pill does not prevent fertilization, it only prevents the fertilized egg from implanting, it is also abortion. I hope you guys are not against the taking of pills also.

Once you say something is an embryo it has implanted already.

I did not give you those reports as examples of abortion but to let you know that even today, debates still rage regarding when is the fetus considered human. NOBODY HAS EVER BEEN ABLE TO ANSWER THIS. But we all gladly take away their lives and feel justified by it simply because we feel the fetus can't speak for itself Afterall.

Many women who tried aborting and failed who eventually gave birth to those children and saw their children, regretted trying to abort initially and were glad the abortion failed.

This is a story of another survivor. How glad she is that her mother failed

http://www.womansday.com/relationships/family-friends/a57514/i-survived-my-mothers-abortion/

Here is a story of a baby who failed to be aborted and his mother regretted her action the moment he was born and she saw him

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/meet-baby-who-miraculously-survived-7528182.amp


What kills us is our limited perspectives. If we somehow had the ability to see the people our fetuses would become in future would anybody agree to having an abortion? If we could somehow tell that a fetus would be the next Bill Gates or the next Dangote or the next Einstein etc would we go ahead and have it aborted?

Nobody knows anything but we selfishly often decide to be killers of destinies and hopes and future dreams all in the name of an abortion and I wonder if Nairaland would have been if seun was aborted or if you would be sitting there selfishly typing and wanting others to die simply because you survived and were not aborted.

Is that not wickedness?

butterflyl1on:


your idiocy is amazing. Do you have to start a comment by saying something derogatory all the time?

Nowhere is it a law that mothers abort early. Many also abort late and either kill or leave the aborted fetus to die. What I am saying is that be it early or late abortion is wrong which was why I gave those links about abortion survivors telling their own story. They are all glad they survived their parents abortion attempts even though some of them suffered deformities from the failed abortion attempts they were still glad they were alive.

You have no right to take the life of anyone or stop the right to life of a fetus.

They have a choice too.

We have started going round in circles and the debate has turned dogmatic and emotional.
You have become oblivious of any points raised and instead remained glued to your unreasonable assertions of fetus have a choice. I wonder what choice a fetus has.

Many suffering children also regret being born, and some go on to commit suicide, so your ' I am glad I survived abortion' examples is neither here nor there.

butterflyl1on:



a fetus is a child in process. Have you ever seen a child who was never once a child? My opinion says that the fetus is a child in process. everything that is present in an adult human is present in the small embryo or the fetus as the case may be.

If I was married and I was given the option of choosing one to live. Be it my baby or wife I would choose both because there is always a chance. If normal delivery would pose a problem then the baby would be cut out via cesarean section and artificially nursed.

My position is that there is always a chance no matter how small.

It is easy to use other people's lives to take risky chances. Doctors have already told you that your wife might die in child birth and yet you still want to forge ahead.


I pity your future wife. No one deserves such religious madness

JackBizzle:


It is easy to use other people's lives to take risky chances. Doctors have already told you that your wife might die in child birth and yet you still want to forge ahead.


I pity your future wife. No one deserves such religious madness

Stop trying to make this into a religious argument when it is not and nobody has taken any religious position. It is my opinion without religious influence.

Some of us are very lenient and emotional when it comes to anything seen as a human life. While some like you see no value in it depending on how you view it.

I am sure you are the type who would subscribe to jungle justice being given to suspected robbers without trial to find out if they were actually guilty of the allegation.

Same action is being given to aborted fetuses. It's simply jungle justice without option of hearing or defence. Life is worth more than logic and is worth more than a law on paper.

butterflyl1on:


Yes those cases do exist. But I am also sorry to disappoint you that doctors always would address their patients according to their level of experience. What one doctor cannot achieve another doctor would tell you he can and another can also tell you he can try his best.

Like I said there are levels to cancer and each is handled according to its severity. Decisions are made based on what is known and seen.

There is always a chance

What are you saying? Cases that made it to the court where the judges ruled against abortion.

Do you think if there was any other way or there was a better doctor that the case would have made it to court in the first place? There are cases where abortions are inevitable. That's just the truth of the matter butterflyl1on

wirinet:


We have started going round in circles and the debate has turned dogmatic and emotional.
You have become oblivious of any points raised and instead remained glued to your unreasonable assertions of fetus have a choice. I wonder what choice a fetus has.

Many suffering children also regret being born, and some go on to commit suicide, so your ' I am glad I survived abortion' examples is neither here nor there.

We would go round in circles because your opinion is not absolute. Do you think your opinion would sway one who does not desire to subscribe to it? You cannot have an opinion for me. I am capable of having one for myself thank you very much.

My assertion is a very reasonable one to those who join in my pro life position and yours becomes unreasonable in that case.

If many suffering children opt for suicide, many also opt for life so how then does it tip to anyones favour? It simply shows that life is all about choices and chances. Deny no-one a chance and a choice same way your own parents opted to give you a chance to live. Who says you could not have easily been aborted due to the situation your mom or parents were in when you were conceived. But they had a hope. They kept you due to that hope and here you are now taking the position of an executioner for those who also should have a chance like you. Are you being fair? Are you being just? Are you being humane or simply being emotionless and coldhearted.

butterflyl1on:


Stop trying to make this into a religious argument when it is not and nobody has taken any religious position. It is my opinion without religious influence.

Some of us are very lenient and emotional when it comes to anything seen as a human life. While some like you see no value in it depending on how you view it.

I am sure you are the type who would subscribe to jungle justice being given to suspected robbers without trial to find out if they were actually guilty of the allegation.

Same action is being given to aborted fetuses. It's simply jungle justice without option of hearing or defence. Life is worth more than logic and is worth more than a law on paper.

It is only religion that can make an educated man see daylight and call it night.


The only thing stopping you from seeing how misogynistic and heartless towards a woman who wants to abprt due to complications is religion.


It is clear that we have reached your usual point where your arguments have been soundly rebutted but you then start to rinse and repeat out of some religious pride.


Nigga, SWERVE!

JackBizzle:




It is only religion that can make an educated man see daylight and call it night.


The only thing stopping you from seeing how misogynistic and heartless towards a woman who wants to abprt due to complications is religion.


It is clear that we have reached your usual point where your arguments have been soundly rebutted but you then start to rinse and repeat out of some religious pride.


Nigga, SWERVE!

We are not having an argument and I can see you are eager to declare yourself the victor. We are having opinions being given.

You cannot offer a rebuttal to a mindset which is set on empathy for all. I am not leaning on any side but on every side.

Like I said, nobody, not even the religious here have turned to religion when speaking on this issue and somehow you an atheist is the one trying to bring up religion as the issue. Then I wonder who then is leaning on religion.

Education does not make all cold hearted. We do not throw away our humanity which education cannot be exchanged for. Life was first before education so why replace its benevolence with what cannot hold a candle to it?

I am pro life and if you do not like it then feel free to abort your own child when the time comes.

I think I need to open an extension of this thread in the family section so we can see the opinions. This is beyond freethinkers and humanists. This is about REAL PEOPLE and REAL PROBLEMS.

butterflyl1on:


Suffering children yes but they are still alive

Homeless children yes but they are still alive.

A lot would say they are homeless but glad they are alive. Likewise those who are suffering as you put it.

So because they may end up suffering or homeless then we have the right to terminate their existence?

Because someone is still alive mean he/she is happy and not regretful? Many children out there are regretful born in the circumstances they met themselves, the reason we have children psychologist, UNICEF are doing their best to comb these problems, suffering and homeless children risk early death so what's the point bringing unnecessary torture on innocent children, why can't the fetus be terminated if the owner doesn't want or ready to care for any child? The other option like someone said is taking the baby away by the authorities, that's if the government of the land is ready to take responsibility.

Many homeless children are the results of terrorism we have today, go to the northern Nigerian for example, it is populated with homeless children.

butterflyl1on:
I think I need to open an extension of this thread in the family section so we can see the opinions. This is beyond freethinkers and humanists. This is about REAL PEOPLE and REAL PROBLEMS.

Ode. As if you care about homeless children

butterflyl1on:
I think I need to open an extension of this thread in the family section so we can see the opinions. This is beyond freethinkers and humanists. This is about REAL PEOPLE and REAL PROBLEMS.

pls feel free to create a thread in the family section and ask the women in a situation where their life is at risk if they will take the chance to die for the fetus.



talk is cheap.



abortion is necessary in some cases it should be legal but regulated so that it is only late abortion is banned.

JackBizzle:


Ode. As if you care about homeless children

I have asked you why you have this childish method of always beginning a comment with something derogatory.

Are you this insecure?

My opinion holds true to me and you can have yours. I can also call you an Ode for having such a callous, cold hearted opinion

Humanistme:


pls feel free to create a thread in the family section and ask the women in a situation where their life is at risk if they will take the chance to die for the fetus.



talk is cheap.



abortion is necessary in some cases it should be legal but regulated so that it is only late abortion is banned.

Late or early is a no no for me. Feel free to hold your own opinion as I hold mine.

tintingz:
Because someone is still alive mean he/she is happy and not regretful? Many children out there are regretful born in the circumstances they met themselves, the reason we have children psychologist, UNICEF are doing their best to comb these problems, suffering and homeless children risk early death so what's the point bringing unnecessary torture on innocent children, why can't the fetus be terminated if the owner doesn't want or ready to care for any child? The other option like someone said is taking the baby away by the authorities, that's if the government of the land is ready to take responsibility.

Many homeless children are the results of terrorism we have today, go to the northern Nigerian for example, it is populated with homeless children.

Does every suffering child die? Does every homeless child die?

How can we then determine who lives or dies when all do not die even in such situations?

Do you think it's all of them that complain in suffering? For some, their situation is what puts bread on their table. They take advantage of their situation and flourish in it.

Who are you to determine who dies? Did somebody not determine you should live? Why then do you desire another to die?

butterflyl1on:


Late or early is a no no for me. Feel free to hold your own opinion as I hold mine.

of course it's just your opinion as long as you ain't the one fighting for your life in that situation.

Humanistme:


of course it's just your opinion as long as you ain't the one fighting for your life in that situation.

Are you also the one fighting for the life of the person you want their fetus terminated? It's their life and not yours. Let them decide and not you.

So far we have seen people fight for their lives by either insisting on keeping or insisting on removing the fetus. It is not set in stone.

This is why I said EVERYONE is entitled to have an opinion. Do not speak for me when you are not the one in my situation. Simple.

butterflyl1on:


Are you also the one fighting for the life of the person you want their fetus terminated? It's their life and not yours. Let them decide and not you.

So far we have seen people fight for their lives by either insisting on keeping or insisting on removing the fetus. It is not set in stone.

This is why I said EVERYONE is entitled to have an opinion. Do not speak for me when you are not the one in my situation. Simple.

Same way you are speaking for adult women who are rational enough to know want they want.

Btw a lot of illegal abortion occurs in Nigeria everyday so they already decided.

There is a reason it is called PRO CHOICE.

butterflyl1on:


I have asked you why you have this childish method of always beginning a comment with something derogatory.

Are you this insecure?

My opinion holds true to me and you can have yours. I can also call you an Ode for having such a callous, cold hearted opinion

Some opinions are backed by facts. Your opinions are mostly based on a failed religion

butterflyl1on:


Does every suffering child die? Does every homeless child die?

How can we then determine who lives or dies when all do not die even in such situations?

Do you think it's all of them that complain in suffering? For some, their situation is what puts bread on their table. They take advantage of their situation and flourish in it.

Who are you to determine who dies? Did somebody not determine you should live? Why then do you desire another to die?

Dishonest argument. How can you ask if it is all homeless children that complain of suffering?



Which homeless child loves being homeless? Which child on the streets love being on the street? Guy, better get sense.

JackBizzle:


Dishonest argument. How can you ask if it is all homeless children that complain of suffering?



Which homeless child loves being homeless? Which child on the streets love being on the street? Guy, better get sense.

I have seen a lot of homeless children still smiling even in their pain. I have seen a lot of deformed children still smiling despite their pain. Life is something we all hold dear and everyone looks for a reason to still hold on.

A popular saying says, I was crying that I had no shoes until I saw someone with no legs. There is always a chance.

JackBizzle:



Some opinions are backed by facts. Your opinions are mostly based on a failed religion

Small boy why do you desperately want to turn this to a religious argument? Are you this insecure? I am religious but have never brought in religion once in all I have said but you an atheist are bringing in religion. Make up your mind and stop being a fool about what you truly are which is an atheist.

My opinions are also backed by facts. Facts that declare that everyone is entitled to hold an opinion and not everyone suffering chooses the cowardly way out. Some persevere. If your life has always been choosing the easy way out then do not let your weakness be the problem of others. Many are definitely stronger than you in mind and body.

butterflyl1on:


Does every suffering child die? Does every homeless child die?

How can we then determine who lives or dies when all do not die even in such situations?

Do you think it's all of them that complain in suffering? For some, their situation is what puts bread on their table. They take advantage of their situation and flourish in it.

Who are you to determine who dies? Did somebody not determine you should live? Why then do you desire another to die?

Suffering and homeless children are expose to danger, the risk of early death is very high, what's the point bringing them to the world when the owner is not ready to care for the child? A fetus can't survive on it own, the owner or carrier has every decision to terminate it or not.

We have read alot of report of mothers dumping babies in the bush, waste bin, nylon, roads, gutters etc do you like reading such stories? Do you like seeing children in the pic I posted?

tintingz:
Suffering and homeless children are expose to danger, the risk of early death is very high, what's the point bringing them to the world when the owner is not ready to care for the child? A fetus can't survive on it own, the owner or carrier has every decision to terminate it or not.

We have read alot of report of mothers dumping babies in the bush, waste bin, nylon, roads, gutters etc do you like reading such stories? Do you like seeing children in the pic I posted?

his view is extreme ie whether extreme case or not no abortion.

He says assuming he had to choose btw his wife and fetus he will take the chance on both, but what will wifey say?

Then he turns around to tell me it's not set in stone, if it's not set in stone then it's pro-choice depending on the circumstances.

Humanistme:


his view is extreme ie whether extreme case or not no abortion.

He says assuming he had to choose btw his wife and fetus he will take the chance on both, but what will wifey say?

Then he turns around to tell me it's not set in stone, if it's not set in stone then it's pro-choice depending on the circumstances.

The guy is just so dubious.

JackBizzle:



The guy is just so dubious.

Indeed you are beyond stupid if you cannot follow a simple discussion without springing derogatory comments every single damn time.

How many times do I need to tell you to stop that?

Humanistme:


his view is extreme ie whether extreme case or not no abortion.

He says assuming he had to choose btw his wife and fetus he will take the chance on both, but what will wifey say?

Then he turns around to tell me it's not set in stone, if it's not set in stone then it's pro-choice depending on the circumstances.

It's not set in stone because it's a choice and last time I checked EVERYONE has a right to this. And yes I would take a chance on both and I want to believe that a loving mother would do same. I cannot love my child more than my wife should and both of us would want the best for our child.

And the best for ANYONE is life! Be deformed but be alive. Say you are suffering but be alive. Change is the only thing that is constant. Nothing lasts forever. Suffering would not last forever.

butterflyl1on:


It's not set in stone because it's a choice and last time I checked EVERYONE has a right to this. And yes I would take a chance on both and I want to believe that a loving mother would do same. I cannot love my child more than my wife should and both of us would want the best for our child.

And the best for ANYONE is life! Be deformed but be alive. Say you are suffering but be alive. Change is the only thing that is constant. Nothing lasts forever. Suffering would not last forever.

You are going round in circles. You have said your opinion na,
loving mothers choose their lives too,
sometimes the choice is not between suffering or normal It is Btw life or death and the best is still life.

When you take the chance on both, both can die and they will be dead forever

Or you you think the mothers who had to make that choice are all hateful.

Humanistme:



You are going round in circles. You have said your opinion na,
loving mothers choose their lives too,
sometimes the choice is not between suffering or normal It is Btw life or death and the best is still life.

When you take the chance on both, both can die and they will be dead forever

Or you you think the mothers who had to make that choice are all hateful.

You missed a very vital point of agreement we both share and that is that ANYONE would choose life. Some would risk their own life for the sake of the their unborn children while others would not. Some would rather live and let their u born kids die. This simply demonstrates that it's all about PERSONAL choices. You or I cannot make this decision for anyone.

Their choices, their demons or their angels. Let them live with whatever choices they make. However as a pro lifer I would seek that they choose life at all times especially when there is a chance for this yet available for the unborn child.