shaybebaby:
And he does it again... Effortlessly.

If you mean the person whose post is just before this post of yours? Whose beautiful and intelligent and "the same way I feel" post is too long for me to quote?
My sentiments exactly!!!

If not, oh well..,I loooved reading that post above yours is all

I agree. Left alone, Human beings would take the path of least resistance

Almost everyone will like to wake up late sit down watch TV visit friends and just enjoy life and do the things that make them happy

The things that reward on the long term are mostly undesirable or stressful in the short term

merahki:



If you mean the persin whose post is just before this post of yours? Whose beautiful and intelligent and "the same way I feel" post is too long for me to quote?
My sentiments exactly!!!

If not, oh well..,I loooved reading that post above yours is all

It is.
The guy just typed essay that made sense and also made subsequent rebuttals DOA.

AgentOfAllah:


Are you just a one-trick-pony? Can't you be someone who clubs, drinks and at the same time make sacrifices for your child because all of that makes you happy?

I think this is how you miss the point of the article. When the author says "doing what makes me happy" he is not just referring to the activity alone but the entire mindset that wants to do the activity exclusively. The clubbing guy who doesn't want to get married because marriage will interfere with his clubbing is the example the person you responded to was trying to make. The author is not saying you can't club and do other important things, he is saying if you club to the exclusion of other important things you are going to have a poorer experience of life.

I agree with you. The author's religious prejudice and condescension towards unmarried young people having sex spoiled what would have been a worthwhile composition off a great title.

AgentOfAllah:
Oh, the prejudice! This author has given happiness a grotesque definition to justify the snarky title of their article. Happiness is not a finely defined set of wants, but any aspiration that brings about contentment. For instance, I may invest my happiness in the success of my child, in which case, I would do anything, even if that thing hurts, to make sure my child succeeds. My happiness could also be invested in sexual gratification. Should this be the case, why shouldn't I seek it, even if it means spending my own money to travel across Europe to fulfill this dream? The only thing this author has done to drive home their vacuous points is resort to silly red herrings, like equating sexual gratification with multiple partners to STD cultivation. What about people who get STDs from single partners?

In this nauseating excuse of an article, the author mentions a few examples of "higher" pursuits which should supersede one's desire for happiness. For instance, they mentioned the "deeper fulfillment of parenthood", as if to suggest that every parent gets a sense of fulfillment. Such a claim is just bunkum! The truth is that there are many parents in the world today, living in extreme misery because they had children when they shouldn't have. Those parents enjoy no deeper fulfillment! This is not to say having children cannot in fact give one fulfillment. Only that if you are certain that it wouldn't, or even unsure that it would, you had better held back before plunging yourself into an insufferable abyss.

"Will this make me happy?"

What is wrong about this line of enquiry? Yes, it may however be useful to enumerate the sort of things that make you happy in order of priority, for some pursuits might require you to forego others, but make no mistake, your net happiness is always the goal. Anybody that says otherwise is either pretentious or doesn't know the meaning of happiness. An equally important question to ask is the cost of your happiness. I suppose this is the most difficult bit, as it is very complicated to estimate. And I'm not just talking of financial cost, this also includes health, time, effect on those you care about (if you care about anybody), and so on. If your happiness pursuit isn't sustainable, then you may want to think twice before indulging.

This author recommends a list of questions to ask before embarking on their so-called "higher" aims. These include:
"Is this right? Is it my duty? Is it productive? Is it healthy? Is it worthwhile? Will it bear good fruit? Will it make me a better person? Is this what God wants?"
When you ask if something is right, what is the yardstick by which you measure its rightness? For most things we do in life, there is usually never a ready answer for whether they are right or not. Also, while the outcome of certain actions are certainly predictable, these are very few compared to most of life's pursuits. The eventual outcome of our pursuits are so unpredictable that one can never be certain of the answers to questions about how productive or profitable their actions may be. For all we know, one of those people Elise met along the way might have turned out to be the source of her "higher" aim; and yes, her definition of "higher aim" is as irrelevant to us as ours might justifiably be to her. In short, while the answers to all these questions could very well be the justifications for one's life's pursuits, they are subjective. Even still, whatever lies at the end of that pursuit, whether you acknowledge it or not, is still about your happiness. So, by all means, ask yourself: "will this make me happy?" without being shamed into accepting that there can be such a fulfillment that is deeper than your happiness.

The most atrocious liberty this author took was their attempt to desynonymise happiness and joy! That's just an egregious contrivance not even fit for pedantic deliberations. A joyful person is a happy person, and when someone is unhappy, they cannot be a joyful person. Obviously, joyfulness and happiness are equally transient states. There's nobody that is perpetually joyful; so, to end an article eschewing the pursuit of happiness with a statement like: "You can never go wrong by doing what brings joy" rings excruciatingly hollow, and dumb...like really? You don't say!!

In the end, I've only read a disappointingly uninspiring article by someone who is eternally bitter that other people may find joy in different ways than them. The author attempts to paint these people as "joyless, miserable, lonely, smiling, empty people". However, it seems to me that the only person who is joyless, miserable, lonely, empty, and, might I add, shallow, is someone who, rather than embrace all the many expressions of happiness and its pursuit, chooses to limit its definition as an excuse to condemn others for not being just like them.

LordReed:


I think this is how you miss the point of the article. When the author says "doing what makes me happy" he is not just referring to the activity alone but the entire mindset that wants to do the activity exclusively. The clubbing guy who doesn't want to get married because marriage will interfere with his clubbing is the example the person you responded to was trying to make. The author is not saying you can't club and do other important things, he is saying if you club to the exclusion of other important things you are going to have a poorer experience of life.

That's how you miss the point of existence! Who are you to determine what "other important" things should mean to people who aren't you? You can either find your happiness and let others find theirs...or you can keep agonising over other people's path to happiness if you're a masochist...then again, you'll just be doing what makes you happy, in your own weird way, innit?!

TheEminentLaity:
I agree with you. The author's religious prejudice and condescension towards unmarried young people having sex spoiled what would have been a worthwhile composition off a great title.

I won't lie, the title was catchy in spite of, or maybe as a result of its snarkiness.

AgentOfAllah:

That's how you miss the point of existence! Who are you to determine what "other important" things should mean to people who aren't you? You can either find your happiness and let others find theirs...or you can keep agonising over other people's path to happiness if you're a masochist...then again, you'll just be doing what makes you happy, in your own weird way, innit?!

LoL who cares if you think clubbing your whole is what makes you happy? Just don't come back whining about how empty your life is.

LordReed:


LoL who cares if you think clubbing your whole is what makes you happy?

You, apparently! But if this is an admission that you've stopped caring, my goal is achieved.

Just don't come back whining about how empty your life is.

I could never intend to "come back whining", especially not to your likes, but even if I did, I'd rather whinge about an empty life than about one filled with your narrow minded BS.

AgentOfAllah:

You, apparently! But if this is an admission that you've stopped caring, my goal is achieved.


I could never intend to "come back whining", especially not to your likes, but even if I did, I'd rather whinge about an empty life than about one filled with your narrow minded BS.

LoL stop taking it so personal, I didn't kick your dog. When I wrote "you" I wasn't talking about you personally, I meant whoever was going to take that stance but if the cap fits....well good luck.

LordReed:


LoL stop taking it so personal, I didn't kick your dog. When I wrote "you" I wasn't talking about you personally, I meant whoever was going to take that stance but if the cap fits....well good luck.

In my defence, you did use a second person personal pronoun. If you don't want to be misunderstood, consider using more precise words, else you can expect people who reside outside your head to have difficulties decoding your meanings.

Still, your use of implicative language suggests you presume people who always go clubbing have empty lives. I don't know why you have adopted a very 1 dimensional understanding of people's lives in whose skins you've never been.

AgentOfAllah:

In my defence, you did use a second person personal pronoun. If you don't want to be misunderstood, consider using more precise words, else you can expect people who reside outside your head to have difficulties decoding your meanings.

Still, your use of implicative language suggests you presume people who always go clubbing have empty lives. I don't know why you have adopted a very 1 dimensional understanding of people's lives in whose skins you've never been.

I am very open to an adult deciding they want to party their whole life but if experience serves us we usually find such people realising that there is more to life. Lets be clear it is not only becoming a parent that consists of important things, indeed this freedom to decide what makes you happy also includes the things that will be important to making your happiness a reality. Clubbing guy needs money and if he wants it legitimately he must work (if his father is not wealthy), work may not be the sort of thing that makes him happy but it becomes important to the fulfilment of his happiness. If he chooses to ignore this then his happiness is cut short because he cannot fund that lifestyle. Something we learn as we become adults is that freedom to do anything you want brings with it its own responsibility to maintain that freedom.

LordReed:


I am very open to an adult deciding they want to party their whole life but if experience serves us we usually find such people realising that there is more to life. Lets be clear it is not only becoming a parent that consists of important things, indeed this freedom to decide what makes you happy also includes the things that will be important to making your happiness a reality. Clubbing guy needs money and if he wants it legitimately he must work (if his father is not wealthy), work may not be the sort of thing that makes him happy but it becomes important to the fulfilment of his happiness. If he chooses to ignore this then his happiness is cut short because he cannot fund that lifestyle. Something we learn as we become adults is that freedom to do anything you want brings with it its own responsibility to maintain that freedom.

I agree with you on this note. In fact, I made this very point in my first post, but you must have missed or misunderstood it. Pay especial attention to my use of the phrase "net happiness". That was deliberate. Here's what I wrote:

AgentOfAllah:

"Will this make me happy?"

What is wrong about this line of enquiry? Yes, it may however be useful to enumerate the sort of things that make you happy in order of priority, for some pursuits might require you to forego others, but make no mistake, your net happiness is always the goal. Anybody that says otherwise is either pretentious or doesn't know the meaning of happiness. An equally important question to ask is the cost of your happiness. I suppose this is the most difficult bit, as it is very complicated to estimate. And I'm not just talking of financial cost, this also includes health, time, effect on those you care about (if you care about anybody), and so on. If your happiness pursuit isn't sustainable, then you may want to think twice before indulging.

AgentOfAllah:


I agree with you on this note. In fact, I made this very point in my first post, but you must have missed or misunderstood it. Pay especial attention to my use of the phrase "net happiness". That was deliberate. Here's what I wrote:

Which was why I was wondering why you took the tone you took. What I was attempting to do was make you see there is something you agree with even if it sounds like mere snarkiness.

LordReed:


Which was why I was wondering why you took the tone you took.

We've now established that my tone was because I took your reply personally.

What I was attempting to do was make you see there is something you agree with even if it sounds like mere snarkiness.

You mentioned that I had missed the point of the article. It didn't seem like you wanted me see what I agreed with. At any rate, I never claimed to disagree with everything in the article, I just found its main argument, that is, the grotesque vilification of the pursuit of happiness, objectionable. Happiness is always the point, and there is no greater objective than one's happiness. Period.

AgentOfAllah:

We've now established that my tone was because I took your reply personally.


You mentioned that I had missed the point of the article. It didn't seem like you wanted me see what I agreed with. At any rate, I never claimed to disagree with everything in the article, I just found its main argument, that is, the grotesque vilification of the pursuit of happiness, objectionable. Happiness is always the point, and there is no greater objective than one's happiness. Period.

I don't think the writer intended to sound like unhappiness is the goal. I think he was trying to express through the dichotomy of happiness and joy that there are challenges on the path to happiness and if you focused solely on the actions that made you feel happy you may start balking at those challenges and in the end really not achieve happiness.

AgentOfAllah:
Oh, the prejudice! This author has given happiness a grotesque definition to justify the snarky title of their article. Happiness is not a finely defined set of wants, but any aspiration that brings about contentment. For instance, I may invest my happiness in the success of my child, in which case, I would do anything, even if that thing hurts, to make sure my child succeeds. My happiness could also be invested in sexual gratification. Should this be the case, why shouldn't I seek it, even if it means spending my own money to travel across Europe to fulfill this dream? The only thing this author has done to drive home their vacuous points is resort to silly red herrings, like equating sexual gratification with multiple partners to STD cultivation. What about people who get STDs from single partners?

In this nauseating excuse of an article, the author mentions a few examples of "higher" pursuits which should supersede one's desire for happiness. For instance, they mentioned the "deeper fulfillment of parenthood", as if to suggest that every parent gets a sense of fulfillment. Such a claim is just bunkum! The truth is that there are many parents in the world today, living in extreme misery because they had children when they shouldn't have. Those parents enjoy no deeper fulfillment! This is not to say having children cannot in fact give one fulfillment. Only that if you are certain that it wouldn't, or even unsure that it would, you had better held back before plunging yourself into an insufferable abyss.

"Will this make me happy?"

What is wrong about this line of enquiry? Yes, it may however be useful to enumerate the sort of things that make you happy in order of priority, for some pursuits might require you to forego others, but make no mistake, your net happiness is always the goal. Anybody that says otherwise is either pretentious or doesn't know the meaning of happiness. An equally important question to ask is the cost of your happiness. I suppose this is the most difficult bit, as it is very complicated to estimate. And I'm not just talking of financial cost, this also includes health, time, effect on those you care about (if you care about anybody), and so on. If your happiness pursuit isn't sustainable, then you may want to think twice before indulging.

This author recommends a list of questions to ask before embarking on their so-called "higher" aims. These include:
"Is this right? Is it my duty? Is it productive? Is it healthy? Is it worthwhile? Will it bear good fruit? Will it make me a better person? Is this what God wants?"
When you ask if something is right, what is the yardstick by which you measure its rightness? For most things we do in life, there is usually never a ready answer for whether they are right or not. Also, while the outcome of certain actions are certainly predictable, these are very few compared to most of life's pursuits. The eventual outcome of our pursuits are so unpredictable that one can never be certain of the answers to questions about how productive or profitable their actions may be. For all we know, one of those people Elise met along the way might have turned out to be the source of her "higher" aim; and yes, her definition of "higher aim" is as irrelevant to us as ours might justifiably be to her. In short, while the answers to all these questions could very well be the justifications for one's life's pursuits, they are subjective. Even still, whatever lies at the end of that pursuit, whether you acknowledge it or not, is still about your happiness. So, by all means, ask yourself: "will this make me happy?" without being shamed into accepting that there can be such a fulfillment that is deeper than your happiness.

The most atrocious liberty this author took was their attempt to desynonymise happiness and joy! That's just an egregious contrivance not even fit for pedantic deliberations. A joyful person is a happy person, and when someone is unhappy, they cannot be a joyful person. Obviously, joyfulness and happiness are equally transient states. There's nobody that is perpetually joyful; so, to end an article eschewing the pursuit of happiness with a statement like: "You can never go wrong by doing what brings joy" rings excruciatingly hollow, and dumb...like really? You don't say!!

In the end, I've only read a disappointingly uninspiring article by someone who is eternally bitter that other people may find joy in different ways than them. The author attempts to paint these people as "joyless, miserable, lonely, smiling, empty people". However, it seems to me that the only person who is joyless, miserable, lonely, empty, and, might I add, shallow, is someone who, rather than embrace all the many expressions of happiness and its pursuit, chooses to limit its definition as an excuse to condemn others for not being just like them.

Will respond when I log on my laptop

Proudgorgeousga:


@ bukatyne what do you think of this?

Will get back to him

Thanks

Mznaett:
@AgentofAllah

Such is the character of some writers. They put up a proposal to you and they also dictate the method of implementation. Very funny.

This is almost my problem with people like her. They create a lot of problems here and there in the name of concern.
I never knew Happiness and Joy has different meanings

Happiness: momentary, caused by a circumstance.

Joy: a state of mind.

aytuns:
I don't think this is a 'one shoe fits all size' case... Some are happy doing productive things, some find happiness in their marriages, some find happiness in working hard.. While others may find do happiness lazy get around and indulging in youthful exuberance..
Still if you are not happy doing what you like, you'll turn out miserable.. Many people are unhappy in their marriages, but won't leave due to one reason or another, but it still doesn't remove the fact that they are miserable... That applies to jobs and general living... So It's not a must that you have to do what you hate in other not to be miserable..
Find happiness in doing what is productive and worth the while!

The article is looking at the end point.... futuristic

For instance, if I am happy watching Telemundo all day, how would my life be like in 10yrs?

Like someone said, the years reveal what the days never will.

Maduawuchukwu:
Nice article. Life is more about commitment than happiness. We all want a comfortable life but you shouldn't leave ur spouse who has fallen on hard times because you want to be happy, you should not abandon the education of your children because it consumes resources you would have been using to buy shoes instead. Even, no work stays exciting all the time. I love analysing politics but there are weeks I get tired of it. I can't just resign my work as a political analyst or fail to turn in reports. I have to use discipline when passion fails.
Just know what you truly like in the long term and stick to it through thick and thin. Do not create responsibilities that you will not attend to.

Good one, thanks

raumdeuter:
I agree. Left alone, Human beings would take the path of least resistance

Almost everyone will like to wake up late sit down watch TV visit friends and just enjoy life and do the things that make them happy

The things that reward on the long term are mostly undesirable or stressful in the short term

Very true.

One of your quotes on one of my threads got me...

A career is what you use to make money to chase your passion...... paraphrased

TheEminentLaity:
I agree with you. The author's religious prejudice and condescension towards unmarried young people having sex spoiled what would have been a worthwhile composition off a great title.

I don't think a fleetingly divorce 26yr old having sex all over Europe counts as 'unmarried person having sex'.

LordReed:


LoL who cares if you think clubbing your whole is what makes you happy? Just don't come back whining about how empty your life is.

I find it interesting that it is younger people who feel whatever I like thingy....

We need to read/observe older people more.

LordReed:


I am very open to an adult deciding they want to party their whole life but if experience serves us we usually find such people realising that there is more to life. Lets be clear it is not only becoming a parent that consists of important things, indeed this freedom to decide what makes you happy also includes the things that will be important to making your happiness a reality. Clubbing guy needs money and if he wants it legitimately he must work (if his father is not wealthy), work may not be the sort of thing that makes him happy but it becomes important to the fulfilment of his happiness. If he chooses to ignore this then his happiness is cut short because he cannot fund that lifestyle. Something we learn as we become adults is that freedom to do anything you want brings with it its own responsibility to maintain that freedom.

@bold: Absolutely on point.... words on marble.

and how is that any of his business? The author had his condescending lenses on throughout drawn from his religious inclination. Maybe it was written on a Christian blog but if not ... my comment remains valid.

bukatyne:


I don't think a fleetingly divorce 26yr old having sex all over Europe counts as 'unmarried person having sex'.

bukatyne:


When is it not applicable?

Its not applicable to situations in marriage where a spouse is being severely and regularly used and abused and battered.

In that case the abused spouse ought to do what makes him/her happy by leaving that marriage and seeking happiness and fulfillment elsewhere. If not suicide is the case.

So that statement "If You Want To Be A Miserable Failure, Just Do What Makes You Happy" does not always apply in all cases.