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When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? - Religion - Nairaland

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When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by Devonian(m): 6:52pm On Mar 21, 2010
Considering what we’re hearing and seeing on a daily basis in different Christian denominations: sexual and financial misconducts amongst church leaders, screwed biblical teachings, and stage-managed miracles, to mention a few, is there anyone out there who can wholeheartedly say that at Jesus’ second coming, he will find faith on the earth (Luke 18 v 8 )? As for me, after spending 7 years in a theological seminary where I studied philosophy and theology in preparation for the priesthood; after quitting because upon seeing the in and out of the church, especially the antics of the clergy, and concluding that it utterly stinks; after completing a doctoral research into Pentecostalism, Materialism and Hypocrisy (In Press), I’m in serious doubt. But, ‘am I just being pessimistic?
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by jagunlabi(m): 7:04pm On Mar 21, 2010
You are being realistic after having being faced with the dirty underbelly of organized religion.This has happened many a people who have embarked upon studying christian theology.Why continue to deceive yourself after you have been told the truth?
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by Nobody: 7:22pm On Mar 21, 2010
Op im not sure u went to theology school to learn about God/Jesus.If u did,u wont be bothered by what u saw which made u quit.May be u went to study men&not about God.
Jesus said i know my sheep&my sheep knows me.If u re a sheep,be steadfast&wait for d coming of ur sheperd
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by Nobody: 7:22pm On Mar 21, 2010
Op im not sure u went to theology school to learn about God/Jesus.If u did,u wont be bothered by what u saw which made u quit.May be u went to study men&not about God.
Jesus said i know my sheep&my sheep knows me.If u re a sheep,be steadfast&wait for d coming of ur sheperd
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by jagunlabi(m): 7:32pm On Mar 21, 2010
^^^^I don't think people go to higher institutions to study theology and philosophy in order to become or remain a sheep.They study theology to have a better, more detailed understanding of what they are dealing with.
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by Devonian(m): 7:49pm On Mar 21, 2010
toba:

Op im not sure u went to theology school to learn about God/Jesus.If u did,u wont be bothered by what u saw which made u quit.May be u went to study men&not about God.
Jesus said i know my sheep & my sheep knows me.If u re a sheep, be steadfast&wait for d coming of your sheperd

@ toba: Here we go again. Typical NL thread derailment -- leaving the reality to chase the shadow. If you're not knowledgeable enough to adequately and intelligently answer this question, you should have just move on after reading it. I'm not asking you to judge my decisions. I've never regretted those decisions after more than 10 years. The question you and others on NL are asked to answer is: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? However, if you wish to commence a thread which examines whether or not seminarians learn about God/Jesus in seminaries, and whether or not seminarians are sheep who knows their shepherd, you're welcome to do so, and I'll be glad to throw more light into that for you. Presumably you were never a seminarian and never knew what went on behind the gates of a theological seminary.
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by jagunlabi(m): 8:25pm On Mar 21, 2010
Devonian:

@ toba: Here we go again. Typical NL thread derailment -- leaving the reality to chase the shadow. If you're not knowledgeable enough to adequately and intelligently answer this question, you should have just move on after reading it. I'm not asking you to judge my decisions. I've never regretted those decisions after more than 10 years. The question you and others on NL are asked to answer is: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? However, if you wish to commence a thread which examines whether or not seminarians learn about God/Jesus in seminaries, and whether or not seminarians are sheep who knows their shepherd, you're welcome to do so, and I'll be glad to throw more light into that for you. Presumably you were never a seminarian and never knew what went on behind the gates of a theological seminary.
You will have to forgive Toba for he sees himself as a sheep waiting for his shepherd, and who expects others to be like him.He is yet to understand that not everybody derive pleasure in being sheeplike and in need of a shepherd of any sort. smiley
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by Nobody: 9:18pm On Mar 21, 2010
Devonian.Wanting to be a Judge in ur own case would amount to absolute ignorance on ur path.
May be u need to re-read ur opening post.U said many things before asking ur questn about FAITH.An aspect dat caught my attention which hangs to ur questn is where u said u quit because of the 'antics of the clergymen' so as someone who is supposed to be focused,how could actions/inactions of men had affected ur steadfastness.On ur path that unfaithfulness.To ans ur questn, with pple like u around whose faithfulness can easily be influenced,i dnt think Jesus will have faithful pple if he returns.
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by Nobody: 9:27pm On Mar 21, 2010
jagunlabi:

You will have to forgive Toba for he sees himself as a sheep waiting for his shepherd, and who expects others to be like him.He is yet to understand that not everybody derive pleasure in being sheeplike and in need of a shepherd of any sort. smiley
Typical post of an atheist who believes in freewill.
Every1 are still subject under control of others which makes u a sheep to be shepherd.The fact that u cant do as u like even in d state u reside makes u a sheep under ur governor a Shepherd
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by Devonian(m): 10:12pm On Mar 21, 2010
@ toba: Your low level reasoning capacity made you pitch your clumsy argumentation very low so much so that I really do not wish to engage with you on this matter, but before calling it a day with you, I'll take you up on a statement you unthoughtfully made: "with pple like u around whose faithfulness can easily be influenced, i dnt think Jesus will have faithful pple if he returns." Would Jesus find faith in church leaders (Priests, Bishops, Pastors, GOs, etc) involved in  financial misconducts, church leaders who sexually abuse and assault children and vulnerable women, church leaders engaged in false biblical teachings, church leaders stage-managing miracles, and church leaders who only establish churches in £, € & $ economies?
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by Nobody: 5:32am On Mar 22, 2010
Jesus said many are called but few are chosen.
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by Nobody: 11:49am On Mar 22, 2010
Devonian:

@ toba: Y[b]our low level reasoning capacity made you pitch your clumsy argumentation very low so much so that I really do not wish to engage with you on this matter,  [/color][/b]

Dont u think u have a low reasoning mentality your self? From your opening post u reasoned very low by getting influenced by mere actions of men.

Devonian:

As for me, after spending 7 years in a theological seminary where I studied philosophy and theology in preparation for the priesthood; after quitting because upon seeing the in and out of the church, especially the antics of the clergy, and concluding that it utterly stinks; after completing a doctoral research into Pentecostalism, Materialism and Hypocrisy (In Press), I’m in serious doubt. But, ‘am I just being pessimistic?

From your post quoted above, u had to quit what u initially planned to achieve because of actions of clergy men. Isnt that shameful on your part? My point is, for anyone to be faithful he/she must be steadfast and enduring no matter the circumstance. This is my honest view.

While not justifying the actions of the clergy, on your part i believe u ought to have been focused in order to achieve your targeted goals. In tertiary institutions, we have many vices  such as cultism and bad lecturers, that didnt deter me from graduating From Lagos State university Ojo(LASU) in 2006. Hope u get my point that one needs to be focused.

Devonian:

@ toba: Your low level reasoning capacity made you pitch your clumsy argumentation very low so much so that I really do not wish to engage with you on this matter, but before calling it a day with you, I'll take you up on a statement you unthoughtfully made: "with pple like u around whose faithfulness can easily be influenced, i dnt think Jesus will have faithful pple if he returns." Would Jesus find faith in church leaders (Priests, Bishops, Pastors, GOs, etc) involved in  financial misconducts, church leaders who sexually abuse and assault children and vulnerable women, church leaders engaged in false biblical teachings, church leaders stage-managing miracles, and church leaders who only establish churches in £, € & $ economies?



I think Jesus himself knew he wouldn't find faith in the pple u mentioned in your post. In Matt 25 Jesus made similar assertions about your queries and also in Matt 13.
Jesus new our taught as men before he departed and he also knows what men are capable of doing.The prophets, pastors and other clergy men are not saints, infact many of them makes errors than we on the other side. But i expected u to have known that, so u wont be astonished when they finally exhibit their characters.

I expressed my displeasure about your action of quitting  the theological seminary not to mock u rather to give advise on personal ground. The way u sounded in your post is more arrogant than i expected.

Any way cheers
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by richjohn1(m): 11:57am On Mar 22, 2010
@Devonian
I've got a similar story inasmuch as am not an athiest there's being a drastic change in the way I reason and see things after some starling discoveries! Leave toba alone we were ones like him arguing and fighting any thing that goes contrary to our beliefs but that was then it wasn't an easy turn to reality but I faced my fears and now I've known and seen things that are too much for the mouth to utter. Deliberate ignorance is the stock in trade amongst Nigerians today, they are so affirmative about what they know little or nothing about! Too Bad.
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by Nobody: 12:10pm On Mar 22, 2010
rich_john:

@Devonian
I've got a similar story inasmuch as am not an athiest there's being a drastic change in the way I reason and see things after some starling discoveries! [b]Leave toba alone we were ones like him arguing and fighting any thing that goes contrary to our beliefs [/b]but that was then it wasn't an easy turn to reality but I faced my fears and now I've known and seen things that are too much for the mouth to utter. Deliberate ignorance is the stock in trade amongst Nigerians today, they are so affirmative about what they know little or nothing about! Too Bad.

What can i call ur jumping into conclusion without getting the issue? Im not arguing in favour or against the issue. I only challenged the op on his steadfastness thats all. I never said the clergy were right.


Guy get issues correctly before posting. Kindly read my submissions above
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by Devonian(m): 12:35pm On Mar 22, 2010
toba:


From your post quoted above, u had to quit what u initially planned to achieve because of actions of clergy men. Isnt that shameful on your part? My point is, for anyone to be faithful he/she must be steadfast and enduring no matter the circumstance. This is my honest view. [/b]

My intention has been not to engage with you on this any further. But let me correct one misconception on your part. I graduated from the seminary without proceeding to ordination “because upon seeing the in and out of the church, especially the antics of the clergy, and concluding that it utterly stinks” If the education you received at LASU (I do have my reservations about the quality of education currently offered in LASU and Nigerian Universities in general, but would leave that for the moment) betrayed your English comprehension, I’ll simplify this for you.

The reason I didn’t take up ordination was because I HAD SEEN THE “IN” AND “OUT” OF THE CHURCH. This is a very loaded statement, exemplified by ONE example: the antics of the clergy. In other words, what ordinary church members didn’t know was happening, I had seen, and these, for me, was antithesis of what Christianity stands for. As such, for me to join the band wagon is simply to deceive myself and others, which I wasn’t prepared to do.
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by petres007(m): 1:23pm On Mar 22, 2010
@OP,

Yes, he will find faith when he comes.

Though they'll be few compared to vast number of professing Christians the world over.

There'll also be a lot of surprises too, as many who actually thought they were christians (based on the word and teaching of their hallowed men of dog god), will be disappointed.
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by Nobody: 1:55pm On Mar 22, 2010
Devonian:

My intention has been not to engage with you on this any further. But let me correct one misconception on your part. I graduated from the seminary without proceeding to ordination because upon seeing the in and out of the church, especially the antics of the clergy, and concluding that it utterly stinks” If the education you received at LASU (I do have my reservations about the quality of education currently offered in LASU and Nigerian Universities in general, but would leave that for the moment) [b]betrayed your English comprehension, [/b]I’ll simplify this for you.


May be u need to check ur writing skill. How would i have known that u failed to go for ordination? it wasnt stated in ur initial post which is this


Devonian:

[color=#770077]Considering what we’re hearing and seeing on a daily basis in different Christian denominations: sexual and financial misconducts amongst church leaders, screwed biblical teachings, and stage-managed miracles, to mention a few, is there anyone out there who can wholeheartedly say that at Jesus’ second coming, he will find faith on the earth (Luke 18 v 8 )? As for me, after spending 7 years in a theological seminary where I studied philosophy and theology in preparation for the priesthood; after quitting because upon seeing the in and out of the church, especially the antics of the clergy, and concluding that it utterly stinks; after completing a doctoral research into Pentecostalism, Materialism and Hypocrisy (In Press), I’m in serious doubt. But, ‘am I just being pessimistic?

The key word is 'quitting' which could connote not completing ur course virtually. You now saying u graduated and didnt go for ordination is completely different from what can be deduced from ur post

Devonian:



The reason I didn’t take up ordination was because I HAD SEEN THE “IN” AND “OUT” OF THE CHURCH. This is a very loaded statement, exemplified by ONE example: the antics of the clergy. In other words, what ordinary church members didn’t know was happening, I had seen, and these, for me, was antithesis of what Christianity stands for. As such, for me to join the band wagon is simply to deceive myself and others, which I wasn’t prepared to do.


Well its not new that many of the so called men of God are not real men of God. But U could av been the change, if u could have just hanged on.
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by KunleOshob(m): 3:14pm On Mar 22, 2010
toba:

May be u need to check your writing skill. How would i have known that u failed to go for ordination? it wasnt stated in your initial post which is this


The key word is 'quitting' which could connote not completing your course virtually. You now saying u graduated and didnt go for ordination is completely different from what can be deduced from your post

Well its not new that many of the so called men of God are not real men of God. But U could av been the change, if u could have just hanged on.


It is virtually impossible to change the system as the vested interests are to great and the love for filthy lucre is entrenched, the best any one can do is to go and start his own "church" but that would not solvethe problem as they all eventually derail. It would take the physical return of christ for their to be any change and that return could be much sooner than expected.
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by Nobody: 3:26pm On Mar 22, 2010
KunleOshob:

It is virtually impossible to change the system as the vested interests are to great and the love for filthy lucre is entrenched, t[b]he best any one can do is to go and start his own "church" [/b]but that would not solve the problem as they all eventually derail. It would take the physical return of christ for their to be any change and that return could be much sooner than expected.

Well yoruba says ori bibe koni ogun ori fifo i.e cutting of the head is not the solution to head ache. U admitted that the only solution is for christ to return, but before he returns what should true believers do? to stop going to churc becos the clergy are corrupt? or not to believe in God anymore and convert to atheism? what should we do?
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by petres007(m): 4:01pm On Mar 22, 2010
KunleOshob:

It is virtually impossible to change the system as the vested interests are to great and the love for filthy lucre is entrenched, the best any one can do is to go and start his own "church" but that would not solvethe problem as they all eventually derail. It would take the physical return of christ for their to be any change and that return could be much sooner than expected.

Hmmm. . . I agree smiley

Come Lord Jesus!

Maranatha!
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by Devonian(m): 4:02pm On Mar 22, 2010
toba:

May be u need to check your writing skill. How would i have known that u failed to go for  ordination? it wasnt stated in your initial post which is this
The key word is 'quitting' which could connote not completing your course virtually. You now saying u graduated and didnt go for ordination is completely different from what can be deduced from your post

Well its not new that many of the so called men of God are not real men of God. But U could av been the change, if u could have just hanged on.

I see where you're coming from. When I said, "after 7 years," traditionally (except these days when you really wonder what else the younger generation [Post-Babangida University Graduates] has knowledge of) a number of people would know which church requires you to spend 7 years in the seminary before being admitted into the Priesthood. So, in saying "after 7 years", this naturally/traditionally presupposes that I completed the training but decided to go no further.

[b]On change. [/b]At that very stage in my life, I received no mission or commission in that direction, even today. It would have been like Moses before he was called to deliver Israel out of Egypt, trying to revenge of his own volition, he became a self exile until God actually commissioned him. But if God had that plan for someone else, Moses would have died in exile, not personally realising his dream for Israel. Besides, you're talking of me being the change. It's imply not feasible. This is a global institution which carved a state for itself, so it's not under any secular governance, yet weilding one of the greatest influence throughout the world. NO MAN CAN WROUGHT ANY CHANGE THERE UNTIL JESUS RETURNS TO CARE FOR HIS OWN BODY! In any case, I now teach in a setting where I unpretentiously help the younger generation--of all faiths and none--to fulfil their dreams and potentials to their fullest abilities. In this way, I'm happily leaving my footprints on this planet earth.
Re: When The Son Of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On The Earth? by Nobody: 5:12pm On Mar 22, 2010
Devonian:


[b]On change. [/b]At that very stage in my life, I received no mission or commission in that direction, even today. It would have been like Moses before he was called to deliver Israel out of Egypt, trying to revenge of his own volition, he became a self exile until God actually commissioned him. But if God had that plan for someone else, Moses would have died in exile, not personally realising his dream for Israel. Besides, you're talking of me being the change. It's imply not feasible. This is a global institution which carved a state for itself, so it's not under any secular governance, yet weilding one of the greatest influence throughout the world. NO MAN CAN WROUGHT ANY CHANGE THERE UNTIL JESUS RETURNS TO CARE FOR HIS OWN BODY! In any case, I now teach in a setting where I unpretentiously help the younger generation--of all faiths and none--to fulfil their dreams and potentials to their fullest abilities. In this way, I'm happily leaving my footprints on this planet earth.


A little encouraging at least u are following what is said in Revelations 22 vs12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

i.e what ever anyone does good/bad we are all going to be accountable for it

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