Ubenedictus:
how does this answer the fact that john wasn't imprisoned

Your question was forme to show from your provided link where your church is re writing history to confront that of their victims ... I have already provided you with proof ...Google the pope yourself and what happened to him. And how he was returned because his replacement had or kept a secret wife

Nodogragra4me:



You clearly didn't finish reading my rejoinder before reply ... The king was first a catholic and only fell out with the pope because he refused to grant him annulment. Then he protested and joined those against the catholic church. The pope in return excommunicated him and declare him anathema to the faith and promised whoever succeeded in killing him straight passage to heaven without the need for purgatory ... He had to defend himself and his throne and the state


That night he Croat and the Serb is still very recent ..The Croat are or were catholics and murdered the Serbs who were Protestant, when the Serbs had the opportunity they returned the favour and mass murderd the croats until America came to their rescue. ...Min the entire south America and Australia, this is what is being played out ...Revenge for the sins of the past.


Get this very clear, the Catholics murdered millions of Christians and Jews not because they were christians or Jews nut because they didn't include the belief of the catholic doctrine as part of their life. The catholic church didn't allow individual ownership of the Bible, it was a smuggled item back in they heydays of the catholic church.

lol.


King henry was excommunicated and you believe that is enough justification for murdering Catholics. you like telling long stories but it isn't true! sir Thomas more was murdered even before the king was excommunicated, Bishop Fisher was killed before the excommunication, do you know what they were convicted of? certainly not trying to overthrow the King. their crime is that they said they do not believe the King is head of the Church. so many more were murdered because they said the King can't be head of the Church not any plan to overthrow the King.

Nodogragra4me:



Your question was forme to show from your provided link where your church is re writing history to confront that of their victims ... I have already provided you with proof ...Google the pope yourself and what happened to him. And how he was returned because his replacement had or kept a secret wife

it is a lie you were told, it isn't true not even on Google.

as for the Croats and Serb it has nothing to do with Protestant it was between Orthodox and Catholics. and it was the Serbs who committed genocide not the other way round.

Nodogragra4me:



That Mary that makes appearances in different corners of the earth is not one of God's People. I mean the one called lady of Fatima. And not one single saints not living in this earth prays for you or anyone ...Intercessory prayer is from the earth based saints... Living people.

it is a pity that you are divorced from historic Christianity and instead hold a teaching invented 400 yrs ago that says the saints don't pray.

the fact that your 400yrs old heresy says so doesn't make it true. I hold the fullness of the Christian faith as taught and practiced for 2000yrs for all times. your new age heresy doesn't count for much.

You are deceived and it is a pity you can't see the errors of your man-made Church.

Ubenedictus:
it is a pity that you are divorced from historic Christianity and instead hold a teaching invented 400 yrs ago that says the saints don't pray.

the fact that your 400yrs old heresy says so doesn't make it true. I hold the fullness of the Christian faith as taught and practiced for 2000yrs for all times. your new age heresy doesn't count for much.

You are deceived and it is a pity you can't see the errors of your man-made Church.

There is no so called ' historic Christianity' that gives Mary any role in church affairs ...As a matter of fact , early Christianity never contemplated any thought of her assuming omnipresence that the catholic church later assigned her.


The woman that parades the earth claiming to be Mary only gives out anti scriptural messages. ... You should be more concern that she doesn't mention the name of her son, Jesus Christ, in her messages.

As for intercessory prayer from anybody in heaven , you ought to know that there is no single scriptural support or insinuation of such. The person who should be praying for anyone are here on the earth ... When you return to heaven you become as angels ... Matt 22:30


You guys are always in the habit of running to satanic strongholds called tradition of the church from aeons without minding what the scripture says about such practices ..... Tradition of the church must have scriptural support or it is satanic ... The scripture is the constitution of the church and all traditions are nothing but by laws of it or they are from hell

Ubenedictus:
it is a lie you were told, it isn't true not even on Google.

as for the Croats and Serb it has nothing to do with Protestant it was between Orthodox and Catholics. and it was the Serbs who committed genocide not the other way round.

You don't know how to use Google or you are looking to find it in your catholic doctored sites ...Your church says they are writing their version of history to counter that of their victims....So don't be surprised when you wake up and can't find some facts anymore online ...Your church is the biggest capitalist on earth

https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/7641/was-any-pope-imprisoned-during-his-service-to-catholic-church



Then you dont know the history,... The croats who were catholics first engage in genocide and when the Serbs had the support they went for revenge.... But for American intervention they were ready to wipe out the croats ...Go and read ...I won't recommend any title for you

Ubenedictus:
lol.


King henry was excommunicated and you believe that is enough justification for murdering Catholics. you like telling long stories but it isn't true! sir Thomas more was murdered even before the king was excommunicated, Bishop Fisher was killed before the excommunication, do you know what they were convicted of? certainly not trying to overthrow the King. their crime is that they said they do not believe the King is head of the Church. so many more were murdered because they said the King can't be head of the Church not any plan to overthrow the King.

Your history is slanted ...The pope excommunicated him. He severed relationship with Roma ... Rome returns the Fabour by declaring anathema against him ...Anyone who successfully removed him gets a ticket to heaven ...The black Jesus and supporters of Rome , started plotting coup, they were unsuccessful and paid the price of every failed coup

Constantine was declared the head of your church and those who rejected his headship got the worst forms of death known to humanity .... Constantine was not even a born again Christian but a pagan and a war general. He brought the church. Of Rome to gather that he wanted to be a member. They welcomed him then he ask for titles equivalent to the ones he was bearing as the head of the pagan religion and got it ...He fused the Christian and pagan Worship hence some of the unscriptural practices and doctrine of your church.

Those purple attires of your bishop were adopted or copied from him. They were his dressing mode whenever he was performing his pagan function

Nodogragra4me:



Your history is slanted ...The pope excommunicated him. He severed relationship with Roma ... Rome returns the Fabour by declaring anathema against him ...Anyone who successfully removed him gets a ticket to heaven ...The black Jesus and supporters of Rome , started plotting coup, they were unsuccessful and paid the price of every failed coup

Constantine was declared the head of your church and those who rejected his headship got the worst forms of death known to humanity .... Constantine was not even a born again Christian but a pagan and a war general. He brought the church. Of Rome to gather that he wanted to be a member. They welcomed him then he ask for titles equivalent to the ones he was bearing as the head of the pagan religion and got it ...He fused the Christian and pagan Worship hence some of the unscriptural practices and doctrine of your church.

Those purple attires of your bishop were adopted or copied from him. They were his dressing mode whenever he was performing his pagan function

Constantine was never, NEVER EVER, declared head of the Church, but of course you are totally ignorant and prefer to lie through your anus. the first guy to stupidly call himself head of the Church was the stupid guy called king Henry who taught it was cool to take the place that isn't is, it is even stupider that some people called Protestant believed his lies.


as for slanted history you should be given a degree for having all of history upside down. Henry declared himself head of the Church and began killing any one who disagreed even BEFORE he was excommunicated, he was already murdering all who could see his heresy even before the Pope declared he was an unjust ruler.

sir Thomas more, Bishop Fisher and countless others never committed any crime except to tell the truth that the King according to the new testament could never be the head of the Church. funny enough the Jesuits weren't plotting coups.

Nodogragra4me:



You don't know how to use Google or you are looking to find it in your catholic doctored sites ...Your church says they are writing their version of history to counter that of their victims....So don't be surprised when you wake up and can't find some facts anymore online ...Your church is the biggest capitalist on earth

https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/7641/was-any-pope-imprisoned-during-his-service-to-catholic-church



Then you dont know the history,... The croats who were catholics first engage in genocide and when the Serbs had the support they went for revenge.... But for American intervention they were ready to wipe out the croats ...Go and read ...I won't recommend any title for you

again your ignorance is showing.

Pope John xxii was not imprisoned, not once is he named in the site you provided.


sorry for your slanted history, the civil war began when the Serbs fired at a Croats peaceful protest.

read up.

When Izetbegović was
elected president of Bosnia and Herzegovina and moved
toward the country’s independence, his main rival, the
Bosnian-Serb leader Radovan Karadžić and his party,
received arms and money from Serbia. Serb nationalist
militia and fired at the crowd that marched for peace and
national unity in Sarajevo on April 5, 1992, thus igniting a
civil war. Karadžić planned a partition of the country
fighting for a Serb territory “cleansed” of Muslims and
Croats. He is at this writing the principal war criminal
tried before the International Criminal Tribunal for the
ICTY at The Hague. Yet the international community
allowed the Serb territory to become a state within the
state pursuing secessionist policies.

www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199935420.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780199935420-e-37

Nodogragra4me:



There is no so called ' historic Christianity' that gives Mary any role in church affairs ...As a matter of fact , early Christianity never contemplated any thought of her assuming omnipresence that the catholic church later assigned her.


The woman that parades the earth claiming to be Mary only gives out anti scriptural messages. ... You should be more concern that she doesn't mention the name of her son, Jesus Christ, in her messages.

As for intercessory prayer from anybody in heaven , you ought to know that there is no single scriptural support or insinuation of such. The person who should be praying for anyone are here on the earth ... When you return to heaven you become as angels ... Matt 22:30


You guys are always in the habit of running to satanic strongholds called tradition of the church from aeons without minding what the scripture says about such practices ..... Tradition of the church must have scriptural support or it is satanic ... The scripture is the constitution of the church and all traditions are nothing but by laws of it or they are from hell

sorry dear the canon of scriptures was invented by the Catholic Church 400yrs after Christ. the early Church taught by the apostles kept all Christian practices including your Bible.

so yes I am happy to tell you that you are ignorant of historic Christianity and the right interpretation of scriptures because the guys who invented the canon of scriptures, also could trace their discipleship back to the apostles and they bear witness to how scriptures is interpreted and lived.


since you just lied about the teaching of the early Church about Mary, read up.


St. Justin Martyr,
[Jesus] became man by the Virgin, in order that the
disobedience which proceeded from the serpent
might receive its destruction in the same manner in
which it derived its origin. For Eve, who was a virgin
and undefiled, having conceived the word of the
serpent, brought forth disobedience and death.
But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the
angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that
the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her, and the
power of the Highest would overshadow her:
wherefore also the Holy Thing begotten of her is the
Son of God; and she replied, ‘Be it unto me
according to your word.’ ( Dialogue with Trypho, 100,
A.D. 160)

St. Irenaeus of Lyon,
[W]hat is joined together could not otherwise be put
asunder than by inversion of the process by which
these bonds of union had arisen; so that the former
ties be cancelled by the latter… […] [I]t was that the
knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the
obedience of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had
bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary
set free through faith. ( Against Heresies, III.22.4, A.D.
180)

For just as [Eve] was led astray by the word of an
angel, so that she fled from God when she had
transgressed His word; so did [Mary], by an angelic
communication, receive the glad tidings that she
should sustain God, being obedient to His word. And
if the former did disobey God, yet the latter was
persuaded to be obedient to God, in order that the
Virgin Mary might become the patroness of the
virgin Eve.
And thus, as the human race fell into bondage to
death by means of a virgin, so is it rescued by a
virgin; virginal disobedience having been balanced in
the opposite scale by virginal obedience. (Against
Heresies, V.19.1, A.D. 180)

Tertullian,
For it was while Eve was yet a virgin, that the
ensnaring word had crept into her ear which was to
build the edifice of death. Into a virgin’s soul, in like
manner, must be introduced that Word of God which
was to raise the fabric of life; so that what had been
reduced to ruin by this sex, might by the selfsame
sex be recovered to salvation. As Eve had believed
the serpent, so Mary believed the angel. The
delinquency which the one occasioned by believing,
the other by believing effaced.
But (it will be said) Eve did not at the devil’s word
conceive in her womb. Well, she at all events
conceived; for the devil’s word afterwards became as
seed to her that she should conceive as an outcast,
and bring forth in sorrow. Indeed she gave birth to a
fratricidal devil; while Mary, on the contrary, bare
one who was one day to secure salvation to Israel,
His own brother after the flesh, and the murderer of
Himself.
God therefore sent down into the virgin’s womb His
Word, as the good Brother, who should blot out the
memory of the evil brother. Hence it was necessary
that Christ should come forth for the salvation of
man, in that condition of flesh into which man had
entered ever since his condemnation. (The Flesh of
Christ , 17, A.D. 210)

St. Gregory the Wonder-worker,

When I remember the disobedience of Eve, I weep.
But when I view the fruit of Mary, I am again
renewed. Deathless by descent, invisible through
beauty, before the ages light of light; of God the
Father wast Thou begotten; being Word and Son of
God, Thou didst take on flesh from Mary Virgin, in
order that Thou mightest renew afresh Adam
fashioned by Thy holy hand. ( Homily Concerning the
Holy Mother of God Ever-Virgin , 1)

St. Jerome,
Death came through Eve, but life has come through
Mary. ( Epistle 22, 21)

St. Ephrem,
With the body then that [was] from the Virgin,
[Jesus] entered Sheol and plundered its storehouses
and emptied its treasures. He came then to Eve the
Mother of all living. This is the vine whose fence
Death laid open by her own hands, and caused her
to taste of his fruits. So Eve the Mother of all living
became the well-spring of death to all living. But
Mary budded forth, a new shoot from Eve the
ancient vine; and new life dwelt in her, that when
Death should come confidently after his custom to
feed upon mortal fruits, the life that is slayer of
death might be stored up [therein] against him…
(Homily on Our Lord , 3)
Let women praise Her, the pure Mary — that as in
Eve their mother, great was their reproach — lo! In
Mary their sister, greatly magnified was their honor.
[…] Of him the Lord said, that he had fallen from
Heaven.— The Abhorred One had exalted himself;
from his uplifting he has fallen. The foot of Mary has
trod him down, who bruised Eve with his heel.
(Hymns on the Nativity , 15)

St. Augustine,
Our Lord . . . was not averse to males, for he took
the form of a male, nor to females, for of a female
he was born. Besides, there is a great mystery here:
that just as death comes to us through a woman,
life is born to us through a woman; that the devil,
defeated, would be tormented by each nature,
feminine and masculine, as he had taken delight in
the defection of both. ( Christian Combat 22.24, A.D.
396)

of course you know your teachings are 19th century inventions

women praise Her, the pure Mary — that as in
Eve their mother, great was their reproach — lo! In
Mary their sister, greatly magnified was their honor.
[…] Of him the Lord said, that he had fallen from
Heaven.— The Abhorred One had exalted himself;
from his uplifting he has fallen. The foot of Mary has
trod him down, who bruised Eve with his heel.
(Hymns on the Nativity , 15)


When reading all this catholic supervised books, keep in mind the position of the scripture.... Eve wasn't the one that trod the Satan but Jesus Christ... The offspring of the woman shall trod not the woman ....This is where you people invented Mary worship... Go back to the book of genesis and find out what it said ... Gen 3:15 ..I am not one bit surprised at the remix taking place within the catholic church.

Ubenedictus:



sorry dear the canon of scriptures was invented by the Catholic Church 400yrs after Christ. the early Church taught by the apostles kept all Christian practices including your Bible.

so yes I am happy to tell you that you are ignorant of historic Christianity and the right interpretation of scriptures because the guys who invented the canon of scriptures, also could trace their discipleship back to the apostles and they bear witness to how scriptures is interpreted and lived.


since you just lied about the teaching of the early Church about Mary, read up.


St. Justin Martyr,
[Jesus] became man by the Virgin, in order that the
disobedience which proceeded from the serpent
might receive its destruction in the same manner in
which it derived its origin. For Eve, who was a virgin
and undefiled, having conceived the word of the
serpent, brought forth disobedience and death.
But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the
angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that
the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her, and the
power of the Highest would overshadow her:
wherefore also the Holy Thing begotten of her is the
Son of God; and she replied, ‘Be it unto me
according to your word.’ ( Dialogue with Trypho, 100,
A.D. 160)

St. Irenaeus of Lyon,
[W]hat is joined together could not otherwise be put
asunder than by inversion of the process by which
these bonds of union had arisen; so that the former
ties be cancelled by the latter… […] [I]t was that the
knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the
obedience of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had
bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary
set free through faith. ( Against Heresies, III.22.4, A.D.
180)

For just as [Eve] was led astray by the word of an
angel, so that she fled from God when she had
transgressed His word; so did [Mary], by an angelic
communication, receive the glad tidings that she
should sustain God, being obedient to His word. And
if the former did disobey God, yet the latter was
persuaded to be obedient to God, in order that the
Virgin Mary might become the patroness of the
virgin Eve.
And thus, as the human race fell into bondage to
death by means of a virgin, so is it rescued by a
virgin; virginal disobedience having been balanced in
the opposite scale by virginal obedience. (Against
Heresies, V.19.1, A.D. 180)

Tertullian,
For it was while Eve was yet a virgin, that the
ensnaring word had crept into her ear which was to
build the edifice of death. Into a virgin’s soul, in like
manner, must be introduced that Word of God which
was to raise the fabric of life; so that what had been
reduced to ruin by this sex, might by the selfsame
sex be recovered to salvation. As Eve had believed
the serpent, so Mary believed the angel. The
delinquency which the one occasioned by believing,
the other by believing effaced.
But (it will be said) Eve did not at the devil’s word
conceive in her womb. Well, she at all events
conceived; for the devil’s word afterwards became as
seed to her that she should conceive as an outcast,
and bring forth in sorrow. Indeed she gave birth to a
fratricidal devil; while Mary, on the contrary, bare
one who was one day to secure salvation to Israel,
His own brother after the flesh, and the murderer of
Himself.
God therefore sent down into the virgin’s womb His
Word, as the good Brother, who should blot out the
memory of the evil brother. Hence it was necessary
that Christ should come forth for the salvation of
man, in that condition of flesh into which man had
entered ever since his condemnation. (The Flesh of
Christ , 17, A.D. 210)

St. Gregory the Wonder-worker,

When I remember the disobedience of Eve, I weep.
But when I view the fruit of Mary, I am again
renewed. Deathless by descent, invisible through
beauty, before the ages light of light; of God the
Father wast Thou begotten; being Word and Son of
God, Thou didst take on flesh from Mary Virgin, in
order that Thou mightest renew afresh Adam
fashioned by Thy holy hand. ( Homily Concerning the
Holy Mother of God Ever-Virgin , 1)

St. Jerome,
Death came through Eve, but life has come through
Mary. ( Epistle 22, 21)

St. Ephrem,
With the body then that [was] from the Virgin,
[Jesus] entered Sheol and plundered its storehouses
and emptied its treasures. He came then to Eve the
Mother of all living. This is the vine whose fence
Death laid open by her own hands, and caused her
to taste of his fruits. So Eve the Mother of all living
became the well-spring of death to all living. But
Mary budded forth, a new shoot from Eve the
ancient vine; and new life dwelt in her, that when
Death should come confidently after his custom to
feed upon mortal fruits, the life that is slayer of
death might be stored up [therein] against him…
(Homily on Our Lord , 3)
Let women praise Her, the pure Mary — that as in
Eve their mother, great was their reproach — lo! In
Mary their sister, greatly magnified was their honor.
[…] Of him the Lord said, that he had fallen from
Heaven.— The Abhorred One had exalted himself;
from his uplifting he has fallen. The foot of Mary has
trod him down, who bruised Eve with his heel.
(Hymns on the Nativity , 15)

St. Augustine,
Our Lord . . . was not averse to males, for he took
the form of a male, nor to females, for of a female
he was born. Besides, there is a great mystery here:
that just as death comes to us through a woman,
life is born to us through a woman; that the devil,
defeated, would be tormented by each nature,
feminine and masculine, as he had taken delight in
the defection of both. ( Christian Combat 22.24, A.D.
396)

of course you know your teachings are 19th century inventions

Other than the misinformation about who the serpent and the offspring of the woman, the remainder of the articles you posted here are derivatives of the scripture simply explained. Not one of them mentioned anything to the adulation that goes on within the catholic church... You have invented a litany for Mary but not one for the Saviour Jesus Christ.

You have a rosary where ...Jesus's , Holy spirit is mentioned Just six times but hail Mary is mentioned 53 times ... There is not a sentence prayer in your church that doesn't have a place for Mary ... Your creed ....I believe in God refuses to mention that the death of Jesus was to make available the grace for salvation but your church buys the satanic Mary version in Fatima that she will makes available the grace necessary for salvation even though there is nothing like graces in the Bible ..


NB: he died under pontiff Pilate the third day he rose again from the dead ..... Why does this creed omit the most important reason for the death

Ubenedictus:



sorry dear the canon of scriptures was invented by the Catholic Church 400yrs after Christ. the early Church taught by the apostles kept all Christian practices including your Bible.

so yes I am happy to tell you that you are ignorant of historic Christianity and the right interpretation of scriptures because the guys who invented the canon of scriptures, also could trace their discipleship back to the apostles and they bear witness to how scriptures is interpreted and lived.


since you just lied about the teaching of the early Church about Mary, read up.


St. Justin Martyr,
[Jesus] became man by the Virgin, in order that the
disobedience which proceeded from the serpent
might receive its destruction in the same manner in
which it derived its origin. For Eve, who was a virgin
and undefiled, having conceived the word of the
serpent, brought forth disobedience and death.
But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the
angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that
the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her, and the
power of the Highest would overshadow her:
wherefore also the Holy Thing begotten of her is the
Son of God; and she replied, ‘Be it unto me
according to your word.’ ( Dialogue with Trypho, 100,
A.D. 160)

St. Irenaeus of Lyon,
[W]hat is joined together could not otherwise be put
asunder than by inversion of the process by which
these bonds of union had arisen; so that the former
ties be cancelled by the latter… […] [I]t was that the
knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the
obedience of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had
bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary
set free through faith. ( Against Heresies, III.22.4, A.D.
180)

For just as [Eve] was led astray by the word of an
angel, so that she fled from God when she had
transgressed His word; so did [Mary], by an angelic
communication, receive the glad tidings that she
should sustain God, being obedient to His word. And
if the former did disobey God, yet the latter was
persuaded to be obedient to God, in order that the
Virgin Mary might become the patroness of the
virgin Eve.
And thus, as the human race fell into bondage to
death by means of a virgin, so is it rescued by a
virgin; virginal disobedience having been balanced in
the opposite scale by virginal obedience. (Against
Heresies, V.19.1, A.D. 180)

Tertullian,
For it was while Eve was yet a virgin, that the
ensnaring word had crept into her ear which was to
build the edifice of death. Into a virgin’s soul, in like
manner, must be introduced that Word of God which
was to raise the fabric of life; so that what had been
reduced to ruin by this sex, might by the selfsame
sex be recovered to salvation. As Eve had believed
the serpent, so Mary believed the angel. The
delinquency which the one occasioned by believing,
the other by believing effaced.
But (it will be said) Eve did not at the devil’s word
conceive in her womb. Well, she at all events
conceived; for the devil’s word afterwards became as
seed to her that she should conceive as an outcast,
and bring forth in sorrow. Indeed she gave birth to a
fratricidal devil; while Mary, on the contrary, bare
one who was one day to secure salvation to Israel,
His own brother after the flesh, and the murderer of
Himself.
God therefore sent down into the virgin’s womb His
Word, as the good Brother, who should blot out the
memory of the evil brother. Hence it was necessary
that Christ should come forth for the salvation of
man, in that condition of flesh into which man had
entered ever since his condemnation. (The Flesh of
Christ , 17, A.D. 210)

St. Gregory the Wonder-worker,

When I remember the disobedience of Eve, I weep.
But when I view the fruit of Mary, I am again
renewed. Deathless by descent, invisible through
beauty, before the ages light of light; of God the
Father wast Thou begotten; being Word and Son of
God, Thou didst take on flesh from Mary Virgin, in
order that Thou mightest renew afresh Adam
fashioned by Thy holy hand. ( Homily Concerning the
Holy Mother of God Ever-Virgin , 1)

St. Jerome,
Death came through Eve, but life has come through
Mary. ( Epistle 22, 21)

St. Ephrem,
With the body then that [was] from the Virgin,
[Jesus] entered Sheol and plundered its storehouses
and emptied its treasures. He came then to Eve the
Mother of all living. This is the vine whose fence
Death laid open by her own hands, and caused her
to taste of his fruits. So Eve the Mother of all living
became the well-spring of death to all living. But
Mary budded forth, a new shoot from Eve the
ancient vine; and new life dwelt in her, that when
Death should come confidently after his custom to
feed upon mortal fruits, the life that is slayer of
death might be stored up [therein] against him…
(Homily on Our Lord , 3)
Let women praise Her, the pure Mary — that as in
Eve their mother, great was their reproach — lo! In
Mary their sister, greatly magnified was their honor.
[…] Of him the Lord said, that he had fallen from
Heaven.— The Abhorred One had exalted himself;
from his uplifting he has fallen. The foot of Mary has
trod him down, who bruised Eve with his heel.
(Hymns on the Nativity , 15)

St. Augustine,
Our Lord . . . was not averse to males, for he took
the form of a male, nor to females, for of a female
he was born. Besides, there is a great mystery here:
that just as death comes to us through a woman,
life is born to us through a woman; that the devil,
defeated, would be tormented by each nature,
feminine and masculine, as he had taken delight in
the defection of both. ( Christian Combat 22.24, A.D.
396)

of course you know your teachings are 19th century inventions

From a site you provided I pointed out to you that your church is rewriting history and this is one of them


The two legs in the image foretold the division of the fourth empire, the Roman, into East and West, and so it occurred. In A.D. 330 Constantine established Constantinople (today's Istanbul) as his new imperial capital, leaving the Bishop of Rome in charge in the West and setting the stage for the later political and religious division of the empire. The final break came religiously in 1054 when the Orthodox Church in the East broke off from the Roman Catholic Church in the West and Pope Leo IX excommunicated Michael Cerularius, Patriarch of Constantinople. That division between Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy remains to this day and is at the root of the current bloodshed in the Croatia-Sarajevo-Bosnia-Herzegovina region of Yugoslavia, as we shall document.


When Emperor Constantine supposedly became a Christian in A.D. 313 (really a clever political maneuver), he gave freedom to Christians as well as official status alongside paganism to the Christian church. Since the church was now a recognized religious body in the empire, Constantine, as emperor, had to be acknowledged as its de facto head. A s such, he convened the first ecumenical council, the Council of Nicea, in A.D. 325, set its agenda, gave the opening speech, and presided over it as Charlemagne would over the Council of Chalon 500 years later, Interested not in the truth of the gospel but in unifying the empire, Constantine was the first ecumenist and introduced that error into the persecution-wearied church. While heading the Christian church, Constantine continued to head the pagan priesthood, to officiate at pagan celebrations, and to endow pagan temples even after he began to build Christian churches. As head of the pagan priesthood he was the Pontifex Maximus and needed a similar title as head of the Christian church. The Christians honored him as "Bishop of Bishops," while Constantine called himself Vicarius Christi, Vicar of Christ. He meant that he was "another Christ" acting in the place of Christ. When translated into Greek, however, as we have seen, Vicarius Christi literally means Antichrist.

Ubenedictus:


Constantine was never, NEVER EVER, declared head of the Church, but of course you are totally ignorant and prefer to lie through your anus. the first guy to stupidly call himself head of the Church was the stupid guy called king Henry who taught it was cool to take the place that isn't is, it is even stupider that some people called Protestant believed his lies.


as for slanted history you should be given a degree for having all of history upside down. Henry declared himself head of the Church and began killing any one who disagreed even BEFORE he was excommunicated, he was already murdering all who could see his heresy even before the Pope declared he was an unjust ruler.

sir Thomas more, Bishop Fisher and countless others never committed any crime except to tell the truth that the King according to the new testament could never be the head of the Church. funny enough the Jesuits weren't plotting coups.

The city and tower of Babel set the pattern of the unholy alliance between civil government and a religion of self-effort and ritual which continued for thousands of years and was exemplified both in pagan Rome and in "Christian" Rome following Constantine's "conversion." The "separation of church and state" is a concept of recent origin, largely since the Protestant Reformation, and one which the Roman Catholic Church, as the religious continuation of the Roman Empire, has consistently and even viciously opposed.



Dr. Brownson, highly regarded nineteenth-century Catholic journalist, expressed Catholicism's position in the Brownson Quarterly journal: No civil government , be it a monarchy, an aristocracy, a democracy. .. can be a wise, just, efficient, or durable government, governing for the good of the community, without the Catholic Church; and without the papacy there is and can be no Catholic Church.1


The Vatican has consistently fought every democratic advance from absolute monarchies toward government by the people, beginning with England's Magna Carta (June 15, 1215), "the mother of European Constitutions." That vital document was denounced immediately by Pope Innocent III (1198-1216), who "pronounced it null and void and excommunicated the English barons who obtained it"2 and absolved the king of his oath to the barons.3 Encouraged by the pope, King John brought in foreign mercenaries to fight the barons, bringing great destruction upon the country. Subsequent popes did all in their power to help John's successor, Henry III, overturn the Magna Carta, impoverishing the country with papal taxes (salaries to the numerous imported Italian priests were three times the crown's annual revenue). Nevertheless, the barons finally prevailed

Ubenedictus:


Constantine was never, NEVER EVER, declared head of the Church, but of course you are totally ignorant and prefer to lie through your anus. the first guy to stupidly call himself head of the Church was the stupid guy called king Henry who taught it was cool to take the place that isn't is, it is even stupider that some people called Protestant believed his lies.


as for slanted history you should be given a degree for having all of history upside down. Henry declared himself head of the Church and began killing any one who disagreed even BEFORE he was excommunicated, he was already murdering all who could see his heresy even before the Pope declared he was an unjust ruler.

sir Thomas more, Bishop Fisher and countless others never committed any crime except to tell the truth that the King according to the new testament could never be the head of the Church. funny enough the Jesuits weren't plotting coups.

There were first Pentecost before you had the catholic church from hence the likes of Martin breaked away. To be a Protestant you have to be a part of something and then disagree with some ideology you found to be out of synch with your ground law..,the Bible


For your information, the Bible wasn't a creation of the catholic church, it is part of the stories used in holding you guys down... Arrogance of ignorance....We are the first this and that whereas in truth, you only worship the ridder of the beast you call Mary ... I don't read your brand of books that only serves to hold down flocks in ignorance..... Read below scriptural proof of the origin of the Bible

THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DID NOT GIBE US THE BIBLE see proof


The catholic Church did not give us the Bible-certainly not the Old Testament, for there was no Church in those days. And if the Roman Catholic Church was not needed to give us the Old Testament, then clearly it was not needed to give us the New either.

A favorite question of Catholic apologists is, "How do you know that Luke wrote the Gospel of Luke or that Matthew wrote the Gospel of Matthew?" They claim that Roman Catholic tradition contains this information. Yet no tradition proves who wrote Hebrews, Job, Esther, or various Psalms. Nor does it matter. That the authors were inspired by the Holy Spirit is what counts. This inspiration bears witness within readers who are themselves indwelt by the same Holy Spirit who inspired the writing of Scripture.

Catholicism's claim that the New Testament comes from the Church by decision of the councils is false. No early council even ruled on what was canonical; yet in these councils, to support their arguments, both sides quoted the New Testament, which had obviously been accepted by general consensus without any conciliar definition of the canon.


The Synod of Antioch, in A.D. 266, denounced the doctrine of Paul of Samosata as "foreign to the ecclesiastical canon." The Council of Nicea in 325 refers to "the canon"; and the Council of Laodicea in 363 exhorted that "only the `canonized' books of both Old and New Testaments be read in the church." Yet none of those councils deemed it necessary to list the canonized books, indicating that they were already well-known and accepted by the common consent of Christians indwelt by the Holy Spirit.


Not until the Third Council of Carthage, in A.D. 397, do we have the first conciliar decision on the canon.18 That is rather late if without it Christians didn't know what books were in the New Testament and therefore couldn't use them, as Rome claims today! History proves that the books of the New Testament were known and accepted by Christians and in wide circulation and use at least 300 years before Carthage listed them.


Historian W.H.C. Frend writes: The Gospels and epistles were circulating in Asia, Syria, and Alexandria (less certainly in Rome), and being read and discussed in the Christian synagogues there by about 100.


In Polycarp's short letter there is an astonishing amount of direct and indirect quotation from the New Testament: Matthew, Luke, and John, Acts, the letters to the Galatians, Thessalonians, Corinthians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Romans, the Pastorals, 1 Peter particularly, and 1 and 2 John are all used.... The Christian Scriptures were quoted so familiarly as to suggest that they had been in regular use a long time.19


No rabbinical body decided upon the canon of the Old Testament. That canon was recognized by Israel and available as it was being written. Daniel, a captive in Babylon, had a copy of Jeremiah written only a few years earlier and was studying it as Scripture (Daniel 9:2). We are certain that the entire Old Testament was well-known when Christ was here and undoubtedly long before, for every Israelite was required to meditate upon it day and night. God's Word Speaks Directly to All In Old Testament times the common people were expected to know God's Word, not through rabbinical interpretation but for themselves, and were able to know it.


That fact, as well as its availability to all, is very clear from Christ's rebuke of the two disciples on the road to Emmaus: "0 fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken...." (Luke 24:25). He would not have used such harsh language in holding these two ordinary people responsible for their ignorance of prophecies had not all of the Old Testament Scriptures been readily available,familiar, and understandable to the ordinary Jew. He then expounded unto them in all the Scriptures (which must therefore have been known) "the things concerning himself" (Luke 24:25-27).

All of the Scriptures were even available to the faraway Bereans north of Greece, who, as we have seen, "searched the Scriptures daily" (Acts 17:11). The same evidence is found in the fact that Timothy knew the Old Testament from early childhood (2 Timothy 3:15) and that it was taught to him not by the rabbis in the synagogue but at home by his mother and grandmother, who themselves were women of faith (2 Timothy 1:5).

It is certainly clear that no one in Old Testament times looked to any hierarchy for an official interpretation of Scripture. Nor did the early church. Nor should we today. The plain words of the Bible, without Rome's domineering interpretation, give the lie to the hierarchical structure of the Roman Catholic Church and the authoritarianism of its clergy.

Priscilla and Aquila were an ordinary husband and wife who labored daily at tentmaking (Acts 18:3). Yet a "church [met] in their house" (1 Corinthians 16:19) and they were capable teachers of God's Word, even instructing a man so eloquent as Apollos (Acts 18:26). Paul referred to them as "my helpers in Christ Jesus" (Romans 16:3).

They had never been to seminary and were not part of a clerical hierarchy (which didn't exist), but they knew God and His Word by the Holy Spirit indwelling them. So should all Christians today. According to Paul, ordinary Christians are to judge whether a preacher is speaking God's truth. Paul submitted his writings to the same criteria, inviting his readers to judge by the Holy Spirit within them whether his epistles were from God or not: "If any man think himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord" (1 Corinthians 14:37).

It was by the same witness of the Holy Spirit within each individual believer that the first-century church decided which books were canonical. In exactly the same way Christians today recognize the Bible as God's inspired

Ubenedictus:



sorry dear the canon of scriptures was invented by the Catholic Church 400yrs after Christ. the early Church taught by the apostles kept all Christian practices including your Bible.

so yes I am happy to tell you that you are ignorant of historic Christianity and the right interpretation of scriptures because the guys who invented the canon of scriptures, also could trace their discipleship back to the apostles and they bear witness to how scriptures is interpreted and lived.


since you just lied about the teaching of the early Church about Mary, read up.


St. Justin Martyr,
[Jesus] became man by the Virgin, in order that the
disobedience which proceeded from the serpent
might receive its destruction in the same manner in
which it derived its origin. For Eve, who was a virgin
and undefiled, having conceived the word of the
serpent, brought forth disobedience and death.
But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the
angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that
the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her, and the
power of the Highest would overshadow her:
wherefore also the Holy Thing begotten of her is the
Son of God; and she replied, ‘Be it unto me
according to your word.’ ( Dialogue with Trypho, 100,
A.D. 160)

St. Irenaeus of Lyon,
[W]hat is joined together could not otherwise be put
asunder than by inversion of the process by which
these bonds of union had arisen; so that the former
ties be cancelled by the latter… […] [I]t was that the
knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the
obedience of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had
bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary
set free through faith. ( Against Heresies, III.22.4, A.D.
180)

For just as [Eve] was led astray by the word of an
angel, so that she fled from God when she had
transgressed His word; so did [Mary], by an angelic
communication, receive the glad tidings that she
should sustain God, being obedient to His word. And
if the former did disobey God, yet the latter was
persuaded to be obedient to God, in order that the
Virgin Mary might become the patroness of the
virgin Eve.
And thus, as the human race fell into bondage to
death by means of a virgin, so is it rescued by a
virgin; virginal disobedience having been balanced in
the opposite scale by virginal obedience. (Against
Heresies, V.19.1, A.D. 180)

Tertullian,
For it was while Eve was yet a virgin, that the
ensnaring word had crept into her ear which was to
build the edifice of death. Into a virgin’s soul, in like
manner, must be introduced that Word of God which
was to raise the fabric of life; so that what had been
reduced to ruin by this sex, might by the selfsame
sex be recovered to salvation. As Eve had believed
the serpent, so Mary believed the angel. The
delinquency which the one occasioned by believing,
the other by believing effaced.
But (it will be said) Eve did not at the devil’s word
conceive in her womb. Well, she at all events
conceived; for the devil’s word afterwards became as
seed to her that she should conceive as an outcast,
and bring forth in sorrow. Indeed she gave birth to a
fratricidal devil; while Mary, on the contrary, bare
one who was one day to secure salvation to Israel,
His own brother after the flesh, and the murderer of
Himself.
God therefore sent down into the virgin’s womb His
Word, as the good Brother, who should blot out the
memory of the evil brother. Hence it was necessary
that Christ should come forth for the salvation of
man, in that condition of flesh into which man had
entered ever since his condemnation. (The Flesh of
Christ , 17, A.D. 210)

St. Gregory the Wonder-worker,

When I remember the disobedience of Eve, I weep.
But when I view the fruit of Mary, I am again
renewed. Deathless by descent, invisible through
beauty, before the ages light of light; of God the
Father wast Thou begotten; being Word and Son of
God, Thou didst take on flesh from Mary Virgin, in
order that Thou mightest renew afresh Adam
fashioned by Thy holy hand. ( Homily Concerning the
Holy Mother of God Ever-Virgin , 1)

St. Jerome,
Death came through Eve, but life has come through
Mary. ( Epistle 22, 21)

St. Ephrem,
With the body then that [was] from the Virgin,
[Jesus] entered Sheol and plundered its storehouses
and emptied its treasures. He came then to Eve the
Mother of all living. This is the vine whose fence
Death laid open by her own hands, and caused her
to taste of his fruits. So Eve the Mother of all living
became the well-spring of death to all living. But
Mary budded forth, a new shoot from Eve the
ancient vine; and new life dwelt in her, that when
Death should come confidently after his custom to
feed upon mortal fruits, the life that is slayer of
death might be stored up [therein] against him…
(Homily on Our Lord , 3)
Let women praise Her, the pure Mary — that as in
Eve their mother, great was their reproach — lo! In
Mary their sister, greatly magnified was their honor.
[…] Of him the Lord said, that he had fallen from
Heaven.— The Abhorred One had exalted himself;
from his uplifting he has fallen. The foot of Mary has
trod him down, who bruised Eve with his heel.
(Hymns on the Nativity , 15)

St. Augustine,
Our Lord . . . was not averse to males, for he took
the form of a male, nor to females, for of a female
he was born. Besides, there is a great mystery here:
that just as death comes to us through a woman,
life is born to us through a woman; that the devil,
defeated, would be tormented by each nature,
feminine and masculine, as he had taken delight in
the defection of both. ( Christian Combat 22.24, A.D.
396)

of course you know your teachings are 19th century inventions

All the names you mentioned here didn't give Mary the place your church is according her today. All they did with the exception of one is explain the scripture from the adamic era to the birth of Jesus and relating both... Not one of them spoke about litany of Mary , salvation through Mary , we fly to your patronage , hail holy queen ...All unscriptural and therefore demonic ..

I wasn't and never stated that Mary never gave birth , I am concern with her worship today by your church and the the opportunity it has given to Satan to invade your church with the demon that makes appearances every now and then with satanic messages to you guys

Have you ever wondered why she never or scarcely mentions Jesus but God ...In Fatima she promises to lead you people to God and not Jesus ...Does she have that authority after Jesus made it clear Jo one comes to the father except through him

Ubenedictus:



sorry dear the canon of scriptures was invented by the Catholic Church 400yrs after Christ. the early Church taught by the apostles kept all Christian practices including your Bible.

so yes I am happy to tell you that you are ignorant of historic Christianity and the right interpretation of scriptures because the guys who invented the canon of scriptures, also could trace their discipleship back to the apostles and they bear witness to how scriptures is interpreted and lived.


since you just lied about the teaching of the early Church about Mary, read up.


St. Justin Martyr,
[Jesus] became man by the Virgin, in order that the
disobedience which proceeded from the serpent
might receive its destruction in the same manner in
which it derived its origin. For Eve, who was a virgin
and undefiled, having conceived the word of the
serpent, brought forth disobedience and death.
But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the
angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that
the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her, and the
power of the Highest would overshadow her:
wherefore also the Holy Thing begotten of her is the
Son of God; and she replied, ‘Be it unto me
according to your word.’ ( Dialogue with Trypho, 100,
A.D. 160)

St. Irenaeus of Lyon,
[W]hat is joined together could not otherwise be put
asunder than by inversion of the process by which
these bonds of union had arisen; so that the former
ties be cancelled by the latter… […] [I]t was that the
knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the
obedience of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had
bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary
set free through faith. ( Against Heresies, III.22.4, A.D.
180)

For just as [Eve] was led astray by the word of an
angel, so that she fled from God when she had
transgressed His word; so did [Mary], by an angelic
communication, receive the glad tidings that she
should sustain God, being obedient to His word. And
if the former did disobey God, yet the latter was
persuaded to be obedient to God, in order that the
Virgin Mary might become the patroness of the
virgin Eve.
And thus, as the human race fell into bondage to
death by means of a virgin, so is it rescued by a
virgin; virginal disobedience having been balanced in
the opposite scale by virginal obedience. (Against
Heresies, V.19.1, A.D. 180)

Tertullian,
For it was while Eve was yet a virgin, that the
ensnaring word had crept into her ear which was to
build the edifice of death. Into a virgin’s soul, in like
manner, must be introduced that Word of God which
was to raise the fabric of life; so that what had been
reduced to ruin by this sex, might by the selfsame
sex be recovered to salvation. As Eve had believed
the serpent, so Mary believed the angel. The
delinquency which the one occasioned by believing,
the other by believing effaced.
But (it will be said) Eve did not at the devil’s word
conceive in her womb. Well, she at all events
conceived; for the devil’s word afterwards became as
seed to her that she should conceive as an outcast,
and bring forth in sorrow. Indeed she gave birth to a
fratricidal devil; while Mary, on the contrary, bare
one who was one day to secure salvation to Israel,
His own brother after the flesh, and the murderer of
Himself.
God therefore sent down into the virgin’s womb His
Word, as the good Brother, who should blot out the
memory of the evil brother. Hence it was necessary
that Christ should come forth for the salvation of
man, in that condition of flesh into which man had
entered ever since his condemnation. (The Flesh of
Christ , 17, A.D. 210)

St. Gregory the Wonder-worker,

When I remember the disobedience of Eve, I weep.
But when I view the fruit of Mary, I am again
renewed. Deathless by descent, invisible through
beauty, before the ages light of light; of God the
Father wast Thou begotten; being Word and Son of
God, Thou didst take on flesh from Mary Virgin, in
order that Thou mightest renew afresh Adam
fashioned by Thy holy hand. ( Homily Concerning the
Holy Mother of God Ever-Virgin , 1)

St. Jerome,
Death came through Eve, but life has come through
Mary. ( Epistle 22, 21)

St. Ephrem,
With the body then that [was] from the Virgin,
[Jesus] entered Sheol and plundered its storehouses
and emptied its treasures. He came then to Eve the
Mother of all living. This is the vine whose fence
Death laid open by her own hands, and caused her
to taste of his fruits. So Eve the Mother of all living
became the well-spring of death to all living. But
Mary budded forth, a new shoot from Eve the
ancient vine; and new life dwelt in her, that when
Death should come confidently after his custom to
feed upon mortal fruits, the life that is slayer of
death might be stored up [therein] against him…
(Homily on Our Lord , 3)
Let women praise Her, the pure Mary — that as in
Eve their mother, great was their reproach — lo! In
Mary their sister, greatly magnified was their honor.
[…] Of him the Lord said, that he had fallen from
Heaven.— The Abhorred One had exalted himself;
from his uplifting he has fallen. The foot of Mary has
trod him down, who bruised Eve with his heel.
(Hymns on the Nativity , 15)

St. Augustine,
Our Lord . . . was not averse to males, for he took
the form of a male, nor to females, for of a female
he was born. Besides, there is a great mystery here:
that just as death comes to us through a woman,
life is born to us through a woman; that the devil,
defeated, would be tormented by each nature,
feminine and masculine, as he had taken delight in
the defection of both. ( Christian Combat 22.24, A.D.
396)

of course you know your teachings are 19th century inventions

Nodogragra4me:
From a site you provided I pointed out to you that your church is rewriting history and this is one of them


The two legs in the image foretold the division of the fourth empire, the Roman, into East and West, and so it occurred. In A.D. 330 Constantine established Constantinople (today's Istanbul) as his new imperial capital, leaving the Bishop of Rome in charge in the West and setting the stage for the later political and religious division of the empire. The final break came religiously in 1054 when the Orthodox Church in the East broke off from the Roman Catholic Church in the West and Pope Leo IX excommunicated Michael Cerularius, Patriarch of Constantinople. That division between Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy remains to this day and is at the root of the current bloodshed in the Croatia-Sarajevo-Bosnia-Herzegovina region of Yugoslavia, as we shall document.


When Emperor Constantine supposedly became a Christian in A.D. 313 (really a clever political maneuver), he gave freedom to Christians as well as official status alongside paganism to the Christian church. Since the church was now a recognized religious body in the empire, Constantine, as emperor, had to be acknowledged as its de facto head. A s such, he convened the first ecumenical council, the Council of Nicea, in A.D. 325, set its agenda, gave the opening speech, and presided over it as Charlemagne would over the Council of Chalon 500 years later, Interested not in the truth of the gospel but in unifying the empire, Constantine was the first ecumenist and introduced that error into the persecution-wearied church. While heading the Christian church, Constantine continued to head the pagan priesthood, to officiate at pagan celebrations, and to endow pagan temples even after he began to build Christian churches. As head of the pagan priesthood he was the Pontifex Maximus and needed a similar title as head of the Christian church. The Christians honored him as "Bishop of Bishops," while Constantine called himself Vicarius Christi, Vicar of Christ. He meant that he was "another Christ" acting in the place of Christ. When translated into Greek, however, as we have seen, Vicarius Christi literally means Antichrist.

this is the quote


Protestantism and the Enlightenment ''created a new
historiography of the church, claiming that it was not
just stained by sin but completely corrupt, so the
church had to build up a Catholic historiography to
combat it,'' he explained.

as you can see, it was the Protestants who created a new historiography, the Church is simply setting it right.





as usual you have ended up with false history, no Christian leader was stupid enough to call Constantine head of the Church, he only gave freedom to Christian, he called the council of Nicea because the bishop of nicomedia his friend told him that the Church resolved any issue in council.

Constantine didn't contribute in the doctrinal debates because he was just a catechumen then, he was baptised closed to death.

in fact the party of the Bishop of nicomedia were the arians, that was the teaching Constantine received and supported yet that was condemned by the council as heresy. that should tell you he didn't have control over the council.

Nodogragra4me:
women praise Her, the pure Mary — that as in
Eve their mother, great was their reproach — lo! In
Mary their sister, greatly magnified was their honor.
[…] Of him the Lord said, that he had fallen from
Heaven.— The Abhorred One had exalted himself;
from his uplifting he has fallen. The foot of Mary has
trod him down, who bruised Eve with his heel.
(Hymns on the Nativity , 15)


When reading all this catholic supervised books, keep in mind the position of the scripture.... Eve wasn't the one that trod the Satan but Jesus Christ... The offspring of the woman shall trod not the woman ....This is where you people invented Mary worship... Go back to the book of genesis and find out what it said ... Gen 3:15 ..I am not one bit surprised at the remix taking place within the catholic church.

you are quoting someone who is conversant in the original languages of scripture and you are trying to refute him by brandishing your English translation. lol.


now watch how that passage is translated in English.


King James 2000 Bible
And I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your seed and her seed; HE shall bruise
your head, and you shall bruise his heel.




King James Bible
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed; IT shall bruise
thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


king James translates that as IT in the original king James, then the 2000 version translated He will crush ur head.

JPS Tanakh 1917
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed; THEY shall bruise
thy head, and thou shalt bruise their heel.'

tanakh translates it as they shall crush your head.


American King James Version
And I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your seed and her seed; it shall bruise
your head, and you shall bruise his heel.
.n

Douay-Rheims Bible
I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and
thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and
thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

Rhein translates SHE Will crush your head.

English Revised Version
and I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed: it shall bruise
thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.



Webster's Bible Translation
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed: it shall bruise
thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.



This ones translates it will crush your head.


that passage is translated differently in various English translation some translated IT others HE, another translated it as SHE, THE Catholic Church didn't remix anything, the issue comes from the manuscript which allows for more than one possible translation.

Nodogragra4me:
The city and tower of Babel set the pattern of the unholy alliance between civil government and a religion of self-effort and ritual which continued for thousands of years and was exemplified both in pagan Rome and in "Christian" Rome following Constantine's "conversion." The "separation of church and state" is a concept of recent origin, largely since the Protestant Reformation, and one which the Roman Catholic Church, as the religious continuation of the Roman Empire, has consistently and even viciously opposed.



Dr. Brownson, highly regarded nineteenth-century Catholic journalist, expressed Catholicism's position in the Brownson Quarterly journal: No civil government , be it a monarchy, an aristocracy, a democracy. .. can be a wise, just, efficient, or durable government, governing for the good of the community, without the Catholic Church; and without the papacy there is and can be no Catholic Church.1


The Vatican has consistently fought every democratic advance from absolute monarchies toward government by the people, beginning with England's Magna Carta (June 15, 1215), "the mother of European Constitutions." That vital document was denounced immediately by Pope Innocent III (1198-1216), who "pronounced it null and void and excommunicated the English barons who obtained it"2 and absolved the king of his oath to the barons.3 Encouraged by the pope, King John brought in foreign mercenaries to fight the barons, bringing great destruction upon the country. Subsequent popes did all in their power to help John's successor, Henry III, overturn the Magna Carta, impoverishing the country with papal taxes (salaries to the numerous imported Italian priests were three times the crown's annual revenue). Nevertheless, the barons finally prevailed

does the Bible teach a separation of church and state?, or that the that civil authorities are to be respected and obeyed in all right things and rebuked by the Church when it goes wrong?


I rightly disagree with a state built without God. or a state where the Church can't advise the government, I reject a state where religion is considered a thing of the Church that shouldn't be brought out into society and laws, I reject a society that censors the name of Jesus etc as done today in the US, and so does the Catholic Church.

there is a right separation of Church and state called religious liberty and a false one as practiced in some western countries.

Nodogragra4me:
All the names you mentioned here didn't give Mary the place your church is according her today. All they did with the exception of one is explain the scripture from the adamic era to the birth of Jesus and relating both... Not one of them spoke about litany of Mary , salvation through Mary , we fly to your patronage , hail holy queen ...All unscriptural and therefore demonic ..

I wasn't and never stated that Mary never gave birth , I am concern with her worship today by your church and the the opportunity it has given to Satan to invade your church with the demon that makes appearances every now and then with satanic messages to you guys

Have you ever wondered why she never or scarcely mentions Jesus but God ...In Fatima she promises to lead you people to God and not Jesus ...Does she have that authority after Jesus made it clear Jo one comes to the father except through him

then you didn't read well.


the place in the writing of the early Church is exactly the place of Mary in the Church today.

each one of then addressed Mary as the new eve who undid the by her obedience, the disobedience of the old Eve.

irenaeus wrote.

And thus, as the human race fell into bondage to
death by means of a virgin, so is it rescued by a
virgin; virginal disobedience having been balanced in
the opposite scale by virginal obedience. (Against
Heresies, V.19.1, A.D. 180

that Mary rescued the human race, just as Catholics says till today because that is the implication of what the Bible says.

Nodogragra4me:
All the names you mentioned here didn't give Mary the place your church is according her today. All they did with the exception of one is explain the scripture from the adamic era to the birth of Jesus and relating both... Not one of them spoke about litany of Mary , salvation through Mary , we fly to your patronage , hail holy queen ...All unscriptural and therefore demonic ..

I wasn't and never stated that Mary never gave birth , I am concern with her worship today by your church and the the opportunity it has given to Satan to invade your church with the demon that makes appearances every now and then with satanic messages to you guys

Have you ever wondered why she never or scarcely mentions Jesus but God ...In Fatima she promises to lead you people to God and not Jesus ...Does she have that authority after Jesus made it clear Jo one comes to the father except through him

then you didn't read well.


the place in the writing of the early Church is exactly the place of Mary in the Church today.

each one of then addressed Mary as the new eve who undid the by her obedience, the disobedience of the old Eve.

irenaeus wrote.

And thus, as the human race fell into bondage to
death by means of a virgin, so is it rescued by a
virgin; virginal disobedience having been balanced in
the opposite scale by virginal obedience. (Against
Heresies, V.19.1, A.D. 180

that Mary rescued the human race, just as Catholics says till today because that is the implication of what the Bible says.

they also called her mother of God, honoured her and ask her intercession.




Irenaeus
The Virgin Mary, being obedient to his word, received
from an angel the glad tidings that she would bear God
(Against Heresies, 5:19:1 [A.D. 189]).
Hippolytus
[T]o all generations they [the prophets] have pictured
forth the grandest subjects for contemplation and for
action. Thus, too, they preached of the advent of God in
the flesh to the world, his advent by the spotless and
God-bearing ( theotokos) Mary in the way of birth and
growth, and the manner of his life and conversation with
men, and his manifestation by baptism, and the new
birth that was to be to all men, and the regeneration by
the laver [of baptism] ( Discourse on the End of the World 1
[A.D. 217]).
Gregory the Wonderworker
For Luke, in the inspired Gospel narratives, delivers a
testimony not to Joseph only, but also to Mary, the
Mother of God, and gives this account with reference to
the very family and house of David ( Four Homilies 1 [A.D.
262]).
It is our duty to present to God, like sacrifices, all the
festivals and hymnal celebrations; and first of all, [the
feast of] the Annunciation to the holy Mother of God, to
wit, the salutation made to her by the angel, "Hail, full of
grace!" (ibid., 2).
Peter of Alexandria
They came to the church of the most blessed Mother of
God, and ever-virgin Mary, which, as we began to say, he
had constructed in the western quarter, in a suburb, for
a cemetery of the martyrs (The Genuine Acts of Peter of
Alexandria [A.D. 305]).
Methodius
Hail to you forever, you virgin Mother of God, our
unceasing joy, for unto you do I again return. . . . Hail,
you fount of the Son’s love for man. . . . Wherefore, we
pray you, the most excellent among women, who boast
in the confidence of your maternal honors, that you
would unceasingly keep us in remembrance. O holy
Mother of God, remember us, I say, who make our boast
in you, and who in august hymns celebrate your
memory, which will ever live, and never fade away
(Oration on Simeon and Anna 7 [A.D. 305]).
Cyril of Jerusalem
The Father bears witness from heaven to his Son. The
Holy Spirit bears witness, coming down bodily in the
form of a dove. The archangel Gabriel bears witness,
bringing the good tidings to Mary. The Virgin Mother of
God bears witness ( Catechetical Lectures 10:19 [A.D. 350]).
Ephraim the Syrian
Though still a virgin she carried a child in her womb, and
the handmaid and work of his wisdom became the
Mother of God (Songs of Praise 1:20 [A.D. 351]).
Athanasius
The Word begotten of the Father from on high,
inexpressibly, inexplicably, incomprehensibly, and
eternally, is he that is born in time here below of the
Virgin Mary, the Mother of God ( The Incarnation of the
Word of God 8 [A.D. 365]).
Epiphanius of Salamis
Being perfect at the side of the Father and incarnate
among us, not in appearance but in truth, he [the Son]
reshaped man to perfection in himself from Mary the
Mother of God through the Holy Spirit ( The Man Well-
Anchored 75 [A.D. 374]).
Ambrose of Milan
The first thing which kindles ardor in learning is the
greatness of the teacher. What is greater than the
Mother of God? What more glorious than she whom
Glory Itself chose? ( The Virgins 2:2[7] [A.D. 377]).
Gregory of Nazianz
If anyone does not agree that holy Mary is Mother of
God, he is at odds with the Godhead ( Letter to Cledonius
the Priest 101 [A.D. 382]).

Nodogragra4me:
Other than the misinformation about who the serpent and the offspring of the woman, the remainder of the articles you posted here are derivatives of the scripture simply explained. Not one of them mentioned anything to the adulation that goes on within the catholic church... You have invented a litany for Mary but not one for the Saviour Jesus Christ.

You have a rosary where ...Jesus's , Holy spirit is mentioned Just six times but hail Mary is mentioned 53 times ... There is not a sentence prayer in your church that doesn't have a place for Mary ... Your creed ....I believe in God refuses to mention that the death of Jesus was to make available the grace for salvation but your church buys the satanic Mary version in Fatima that she will makes available the grace necessary for salvation even though there is nothing like graces in the Bible ..


NB: he died under pontiff Pilate the third day he rose again from the dead ..... Why does this creed omit the most important reason for the death

my mfm friend shout die over 60 times before he says Jesus, the other one mentioned enemies more times than Jesus, he didn't even remember the holy spirit. at least Catholics repeating scriptures.
besides the rosary is a Christ centered prayer, it is mainly meditative, Catholics actually use the rosary when meditating on the life of Christ, repeating scriptures keep you mind from going off track.

it seem you haven't even read what you're condemning, in Fatima Mary talk about her son. the creed tells us why Jesus died it says.



For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven... became man.. died...buried... as the scriptures say.


read up the Nicene creed.

Nodogragra4me:
All the names you mentioned here didn't give Mary the place your church is according her today. All they did with the exception of one is explain the scripture from the adamic era to the birth of Jesus and relating both... Not one of them spoke about litany of Mary , salvation through Mary , we fly to your patronage , hail holy queen ...All unscriptural and therefore demonic ..

I wasn't and never stated that Mary never gave birth , I am concern with her worship today by your church and the the opportunity it has given to Satan to invade your church with the demon that makes appearances every now and then with satanic messages to you guys

Have you ever wondered why she never or scarcely mentions Jesus but God ...In Fatima she promises to lead you people to God and not Jesus ...Does she have that authority after Jesus made it clear Jo one comes to the father except through him

keep reading.

"It becomes you to be mindful of us, as you stand near
Him Who granted you all graces, for you are the
Mother of God and our Queen. Help us for the sake of
the King, the Lord God Master Who was born of you.
For this reason you are called 'full of Grace'..." (373 St.
Athanasius).
"Blessed Virgin Mary, who can worthily repay you with
praise and thanksgiving for having rescued a fallen
world by your generous consent? ...accept then such
poor thanks as we have to offer, unequal though they
be to your merits. Receive our gratitude and obtain by
your prayers the pardon of our sins. Take our prayers
into the sanctuary of heaven and enable them to bring
about our peace with God...Holy Mary, help the
miserable, strengthen the discouraged, comfort the
sorrowful, pray for your people, plead for the clergy,
intercede for all women consecrated to God. May all
who venerate you, feel now your help and protection.
...Make it your continual care to pray for the people of
God, for you were blessed by God and were made
worthy to bear the Redeemer of the world, who lives
and reigns for ever (St Augustine in 430 A.D. ).


"you are the
vessel and tabernacle containing all mysteries. You
know what the Patriarchs never knew; you have
experienced what was never revealed to the Angels;
you have heard what the Prophets never heard. In a
word, all that was hidden from preceding generations
was made known to you; even more, most of these
wonders depended on you. (270 A.D., St. Gregory
Thaumaturgus),
"Blessed Virgin, immaculate and pure you are the
sinless Mother of your Son, the mighty Lord of the
universe. You are holy and inviolate, the hope of the
hopeless and sinful; we sing your praises. We praise
you as full of every grace, for you bore the God-Man.
We all venerate you; we invoke you and implore your
aid...Holy and immaculate Virgin...be our intercessor
and advocate at the hour of death and judgment...you
are holy in the sight of God, to Whom be honor and
glory, majesty, and power forever (373 AD, St. Ephem
of Edessa).

St. Epiphanius, wrote "Against
Eighty Heresies" where he affirmed: "Eve was called the
mother of the living ...after the fall this title was given
to her. True it is...the whole race of man upon earth
was born from Eve; but in reality it is from Mary the
Life was truly born to the world. So that by giving birth
to the Living One, Mary became the mother of all
living"

Methodius
“While the old man [Simeon] was thus
exultant, and rejoicing with exceeding
great and holy joy, that which had before
been spoken of in a figure by the prophet
Isaiah, the holy Mother of God now
manifestly fulfilled” (Oration on Simeon
and Anna 7 [A.D. 305]).
“Hail to you forever, you virgin Mother
of God, our unceasing joy, for unto you
do I again return. . . . Hail, you fount of
the Son’s love for man. . . . Wherefore,
we pray you, the most excellent among
women, who boast in the confidence of
your maternal honors, that you would
unceasingly keep us in remembrance. O
holy Mother of God, remember us, I say,
who make our boast in you, and who in
august hymns celebrate your memory,
which will ever live, and never fade
away” (ibid., 14).

Who, from your personal knowledge of the scripture did crush the head of the serpent between Mary and Jesus

Ubenedictus:



you are quoting someone who is conversant in the original languages of scripture and you are trying to refute him by brandishing your English translation. lol.


now watch how that passage is translated in English.


King James 2000 Bible
And I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your seed and her seed; HE shall bruise
your head, and you shall bruise his heel.




King James Bible
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed; IT shall bruise
thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


king James translates that as IT in the original king James, then the 2000 version translated He will crush ur head.

JPS Tanakh 1917
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed; THEY shall bruise
thy head, and thou shalt bruise their heel.'

tanakh translates it as they shall crush your head.


American King James Version
And I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your seed and her seed; it shall bruise
your head, and you shall bruise his heel.
.n

Douay-Rheims Bible
I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and
thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and
thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

Rhein translates SHE Will crush your head.

English Revised Version
and I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed: it shall bruise
thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.



Webster's Bible Translation
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed: it shall bruise
thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.



This ones translates it will crush your head.


that passage is translated differently in various English translation some translated IT others HE, another translated it as SHE, THE Catholic Church didn't remix anything, the issue comes from the manuscript which allows for more than one possible translation.

Nodogragra4me:
Who, from your personal knowledge of the scripture did crush the head of the serpent between Mary and Jesus

I believe both crushed the head of the serpent, God created enmity between both the woman and her offspring against the devil, I believe he made sure the victory was total, both the woman and her offspring won. though the woman merely shares in the victory of her son.

Ubenedictus:
I believe both crushed the head of the serpent, God created enmity between both the woman and her offspring against the devil, I believe he made sure the victory was total, both the woman and her offspring won. though the woman merely shares in the victory of her son.

My question was who crushed the head of the serpent but you still have not being able to divorce Mary from your answer.... The head is Satan's ruler-ship of the world and the only person that did a fatal blow to that was and is Jesus Christ. There is no helping hand anywhere...a vessels, mortal body, was prepared for him through Mary

Mary didn't jointly crush the serpent... It wasn't a tag team fight


NB: I will respond to your other post during the holidays

1. Not once was the name Jesus mentioned in all the articles you posted here.
2. There is no word likes graces in the scripture
3. There is no intercession in heaven before God but Jesus Christ... He is our advocate before God
4. Help is only found in Jesus Christ
5. The mysteries of the kingdom are domiciled in the knowledge fountain of the trinity... The Holy spirit who is the only promised teacher of all truth... The truth of the kingdom is called mysteries.... The scripture says to you it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom but to them without it is parable and foolishness...... The only personality that can make you know the mystery is the Holy Spirit.... Mary is a member of the trinity unless a couple took place in heaven that we are not aware of

Ubenedictus:



keep reading.

"It becomes you to be mindful of us, as you stand near
Him Who granted you all graces, for you are the
Mother of God and our Queen. Help us for the sake of
the King, the Lord God Master Who was born of you.
For this reason you are called 'full of Grace'..." (373 St.
Athanasius).
"Blessed Virgin Mary, who can worthily repay you with
praise and thanksgiving for having rescued a fallen
world by your generous consent? ...accept then such
poor thanks as we have to offer, unequal though they
be to your merits. Receive our gratitude and obtain by
your prayers the pardon of our sins. Take our prayers
into the sanctuary of heaven and enable them to bring
about our peace with God. ..Holy Mary, help the
miserable, strengthen the discouraged, comfort the
sorrowful, pray for your people, plead for the clergy,
intercede for all women consecrated to God. May all
who venerate you, feel now your help and protection.
...Make it your continual care to pray for the people of
God, for you were blessed by God and were made
worthy to bear the Redeemer of the world, who lives
and reigns for ever (St Augustine in 430 A.D. ).


"you are the
vessel and tabernacle containing all mysteries. You
know what the Patriarchs never knew; you have
experienced what was never revealed to the Angels;
you have heard what the Prophets never heard. In a
word, all that was hidden from preceding generations
was made known to you; even more, most of these
wonders depended on you. (270 A.D., St. Gregory
Thaumaturgus),
"Blessed Virgin, immaculate and pure you are the
sinless Mother of your Son, the mighty Lord of the
universe. You are holy and inviolate, the hope of the
hopeless and sinful; we sing your praises. We praise
you as full of every grace, for you bore the God-Man.
We all venerate you; we invoke you and implore your
aid...Holy and immaculate Virgin...be our intercessor
and advocate at the hour of death and judgment...you
are holy in the sight of God, to Whom be honor and
glory, majesty, and power foreve r (373 AD, St. Ephem
of Edessa).

St. Epiphanius, wrote "Against
Eighty Heresies" where he affirmed: "Eve was called the
mother of the living ...after the fall this title was given
to her. True it is...the whole race of man upon earth
was born from Eve; but in reality it is from Mary the
Life was truly born to the world. So that by giving birth
to the Living One, Mary became the mother of all
living"

Methodius
“While the old man [Simeon] was thus
exultant, and rejoicing with exceeding
great and holy joy, that which had before
been spoken of in a figure by the prophet
Isaiah, the holy Mother of God now
manifestly fulfilled” (Oration on Simeon
and Anna 7 [A.D. 305]).
“Hail to you forever, you virgin Mother
of God, our unceasing joy, for unto you
do I again return. . . . Hail, you fount of
the Son’s love for man. . . . Wherefore,
we pray you, the most excellent among
women, who boast in the confidence of
your maternal honors, that you would
unceasingly keep us in remembrance. O
holy Mother of God, remember us, I say,
who make our boast in you, and who in
august hymns celebrate your memory,
which will ever live, and never fade
away” (ibid., 14).

6. An angel brought her the knowledge of the birth so it can't be true that she knew what angels didn't know
7. Your help comes from heaven....Jesus is your helper not Mary



Prayers like Hail holy Queen, we fly to thy patronage are all unscriptural......The Bible is the constitution of the church.... Any personal opinion that can't find support from the scripture is unscriptural and therefore inspired by the devil.... Most of what you posted here falls into unscriptural writings

Nodogragra4me:
1. Not once was the name Jesus mentioned in all the articles you posted here.
2. There is no word likes graces in the scripture
3. There is no intercession in heaven before God but Jesus Christ... He is our advocate before God
4. Help is only found in Jesus Christ
5. The mysteries of the kingdom are domiciled in the knowledge fountain of the trinity... The Holy spirit who is the only promised teacher of all truth... The truth of the kingdom is called mysteries.... The scripture says to you it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom but to them without it is parable and foolishness...... The only personality that can make you know the mystery is the Holy Spirit.... Mary is a member of the trinity unless a couple took place in heaven that we are not aware of






6. An angel brought her the knowledge of the birth so it can't be true that she knew what angels didn't know
7. Your help comes from heaven....Jesus is your helper not Mary



Prayers like Hail holy Queen, we fly to thy patronage are all unscriptural......The Bible is the constitution of the church.... Any personal opinion that can't find support from the scripture is unscriptural and therefore inspired by the devil.... Most of what you posted here falls into unscriptural writings

1. it is rather a sort of fanatism to imagine that every sentence must have the name Jesus even though some of those quotes refer to Jesus using his titles.
2. did the Church father claim otherwise?
3. Jesus is our advocate before God but nowhere does scriptures say there is no other intercessor, in fact scriptures say the holy spirit is our intercessor and talks of the Church interceding.
4. that is the reason we ask for intercession cause in God alone is help.
5. Jesus is the fullness of the revelation of the mysteries of God and he was in the womb of Mary, so yes God bestowed to her the fullness of his mysteries in Christ.
6. she knew what the Angels didn't know, for no Angel has ever given birth to the creator nor will they ever know what it means to be the mother of your creator.
7. all the Church continue to intercede in Christ.

8. the Bible is the book of the Church, the word of God is the constitution of the Church and it is received through tradition and sacred scriptures 2 thess. and as the Church Fathers bear witness, devotion to Mary and the saint is part and parcel of the apostolic tradition the Church received.

Nodogragra4me:




My question was who crushed the head of the serpent but you still have not being able to divorce Mary from your answer.... The head is Satan's ruler-ship of the world and the only person that did a fatal blow to that was and is Jesus Christ. There is no helping hand anywhere...a vessels, mortal body, was prepared for him through Mary

Mary didn't jointly crush the serpent... It wasn't a tag team fight


NB: I will respond to your other post during the holidays

sorry you seem not to understand scripture. read gen 3:15 again, it was exactly a tag team fight.
God said '' I'll put enmity between you and the woman, between your offspring and her offspring.

so there is a war with Mary and Jesus on one side and Satan and his offspring on the other side.
Mary said yes to God thus cooperating in the victory of her son.

when Jesus won, his team won, his mother too won.

that is why the Church fathers and I agree