InesQor:


The only thing I have to say on this topic is rather [size=13pt]simple:[/size]

Don't go out of your way [size=14pt]to seek a spectacular "personal supernatural experience"[/size].

Otherwise, [size=14pt]an evil spirit can[/size] will [size=14pt]take the advantage to seduce you[/size].

But if God has chosen to show you something or make you have such an experience, all well and good.

Nuff said.

@InesQor

Was pleased with the cautionary "Let the BUYER beware" advice and/or warning

There is a need to recognise that if galavanting from an unguarded and/or vacant abode,

evil spirit(s) will or might trespass and literally squat,

leading to actions of deliverance or exorcism to redress (i.e. for eviction)

This is more esoteric . . .

e36991:

@InesQor

Was pleased with the "Let the BUYER beware" warning

Whilst galavanting, evil spirit(s) might trespass and literally squat at an unguarded and vacant abode

leading to deliverance or exorcism to redress (i.e. for eviction)

This is more esoteric . . .

LOL such a person will be very lucky if it's only one evil spirit sef.

Jesus said whenever they find a place empty the evil spirits call all their friends (the baddest and most wicked ones) and they jampack the house! 

AMPLIFIED
Luk 11:25  And when it arrives, it finds [the place] swept and put in order and furnished and decorated.
Luk 11:26  And it goes and brings other spirits, seven [of them], more evil than itself, and they enter in, settle down, and dwell there; and the last state of that person is worse than the first.

MESSAGE
Luk 11:25  On return, it finds the person swept and dusted, but vacant.
Luk 11:26  It then runs out and rounds up seven other spirits dirtier than itself and they all move in, whooping it up. That person ends up far worse than if he'd never gotten cleaned up in the first place."

benodic:

l like to congratulate you again because the step you have taken is one that very few christians know about. you are going to gradually turn from a believer to a knower.

@benodic,aren't you the ECKANKAR guy trying to convert me on the ECK thread ? Why are you making your visions sound 'Christianlike' ?

I hope you're not the same person as noetic16 . . .

By all means enlighten us more . . . e.g what has the 'master' told you about Nigeria. . . why don't we have electricity,where is Yar'Adua etc. . .

@illusion2:
benodic can never be noetic16

Never!

InesQor:

@illusion2:
benodic can never be noetic16
Never!

Ok then. . .thanks

benodic:

l like to congratulate you again because the step you have taken is one that very few christians know about. you are going to gradually turn from a believer to a knower. you are finally realizing that God is a very personal concept indeed and It is very unique to the individual. you will be gradually guided step by step by your own path according to your strength and weaknesses until you become a purified vessel for God to use for Its purposes on earth. the true word of God is not written in a book but it is written in our hearts. in one of my early inner experiences when i started having contacts with the spiritual masters my major question was about the existence of hell. so in one of my experiences i asked the master about it. does hell really exist and what is it like? the master took me to a place where a very big fire was burning very fiercely. he asked me to enter the fire. but i was alarmed and refused. he told me not to be afraid that i should go ahead and enter the fire. i finally picked up courage and entered the fire. but i was surprised that i did not feel anything. the fire was all over me but i was not consumed by it. i came out of the fire and the master said to me. as soul you are eternal and immortal. and no fire can burn soul, no water can drown soul, no knife can pierce soul. soul is made of the same qualities as God, omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. the only sin soul commits is being ignorant of its real nature and thinking that it the human body. after i came back from that experience i became the fearless one.

1. I do have strong beliefs that do contradict some of the things u have said here. For instance I believe that hell is real and not a joke. my spiritual experiences have also made me understand to try and see things from God's perspective. My understanding of God's judgement has really changed since i have seen certain things that have also been explained to me. That probably explains the zeal with which i debate such issues as the blood shed in the OT . . . , simply because I have seen enough to know the truth.

2. On a second thought, I think that the ONLY reason why i my spirit has not been able to go beyond the ceiling while I am conscious is largely due to my dogma. . . . .I always resist the urge and force that attempts to carry me off and return my spirit into my body. But i am powerless from resisting this same force in my dreams. . . infact I initiate the process of flying away to safety and doing supernatural things.

3. true a man's soul might be immortal. . , but u must never forget the words of Jesus when He spoke of He who could destroy both the soul and spirit. (mathew 10:28). . . . . .death and hell would be cast into a lake of fire. . . . .they would both perish and their occupants.

4. True to fact, my knowledge of the spiritual has greatly influenced my approach to life. Considering what i have seen and how they have come to pass. . . I think that life is one stage managed affair. . . but within the orbit of predestination is a tiny capacity of free will. . .it is this free will that will face the judgement throne of God.

dear illusion2,
i want to make a very serious point of correction. i never made any attempt to convert you to Eckankar because such a thing is never done in my religion. we do not convert people. i repeat we do not convert people. i only gave you the opportunity to ask me any question you have about Eckankar and i did my best in answering them. in terms of my experiences sounding Christian like you have to realize that i came from the christian background and i was a very serious born again christian who wanted to know the truth about life with all my heart. i studied the bible in and out and was always asking God to shine the light of truth on me. when i came across the teachings of Eckankar i discover that here talking ends. here you learn how to make spiritual journeys to meet with the spiritual masters who are all working for God to learn any thing that you want to learn. all the spiritual masters like mohammed, jesus, buddha are all alive and existing in the inner planes or what you can call heaven. and they are not quarreling among themselves or trying to find out who is greater than the other. it is only their followers who quarrel and bicker on earth over which religion is greater. that is why i always emphasize on the inner experiences. it is really very simple. all you need is an open and loving heart. ask your master to reveal the truth about life and about God to you. seat back and watch your experiences. you do not have to become a member of Eckankar to have these spiritual experiences because you are soul made in the image and likeness of God and like God you are immortal. i still invite any body who have any questions to ask me to go ahead. and please i am not noetic16. i do not play games.

dear illusion2,
concerning your questions about nigeria and why we do not have electricity. the answer is really very simple. it is because in nigeria we do not love ourselves. there is no love in this country. people do things for selfish purposes and they do not care for another person's welfare. the only cure for this our dear country is for us to learn how to love our neighbours as ourselves. that is why i was so concerned with what i saw in this forum. so much hatred and name calling. it should not be so. the fact that you do not understand another person's point of view should not make you to condemn that person. i as an Eckist will never deny you anything that you have merited or deny you any work that you are the most qualified person to do. but in this our country excellence is sacrificed on the platter of religion and tribe. i once applied for work at a place where i was the most qualified person to do that work and i was in the best position to do that work but because i was not a Muslim, the work was given to a Muslim who was not able to carry out the work at all and after a short stint the person ran away and they started calling me again but by that time i had already gotten a better work elsewhere which i was not ready to leave. so they lost my services. this is exactly the problem with this country and until we are able to overcome this problem and rise above religious and tribal differences, i am afraid that this our dear country will remain in darkness for a very long time to come.

dear noetic 16,
to be frank with you it really doesn't matter what you believe or what you do not believe. also it really doesn't matter what spiritual experiences you have had. what really matters is how has your believes and your experiences made you a better person on earth today. how much love have you been able to develop as a result of these experiences. and of course the love i am talking about is divine love. the love that is unconditional and is given to all life and all souls. let us be more practical with these concepts. remember the story of the good samaritan who was not a christian or a jew but was able to give that divine love to a jew who was beaten by thieves. if your religion has not helped you to develop that kind of love then i am afraid that you are totally missing the point. through your spiritual experiences you are drawn gradually closer and closer to the heart of God. and the closer you get the more you take on the qualities of God. the paramount quality being love. and with love all things are possible.

^^^ True words u have spoken. Love is ultimate and I can deduce this from my rel with people. I am being led to accept people unconditionally for who they are. . . .this is quite unlike the old me. Love is a unique attribute of God which He wants all His sons to have.


why did u leave christinaity?

noetic16:


^^^ True words u have spoken.

Love is ultimate and I can deduce this from my rel with people.

I am being led to accept people unconditionally for who they are . . . this is quite unlike the old me.

Love is a unique attribute of God which He wants all His sons to have.

Why did u leave [size=14pt]christianity[/size]?

Has anyone ever reflected or considered with thoroughness and care why Christianity and not Jesuity

- Mind you am not referring to Ignatius Loyola's Jesuit religious order

Why the body of Christ and not the body of Jesus . . .

Why particularly Christ and not Jesus . . .

e36991:

Has anyone ever reflected or considered with thoroughness and care why Christianity and not Jesuity

- Mind you am not referring to Ignatius Loyola's Jesuit religious order

Why the body of Christ and not the body of Jesus . . .

Why particularly Christ and not Jesus . . .

what are u driving at?

noetic16:


What are u driving at?

Dont get jittery. Driving at a revelation?

I can open a fresh/new thread so as to not derail the original subject matter

e36991:

Dont get jittery. Driving at a revelation?

I can open a fresh/new thread so as to not derail the original subject matter

jittery at what? . , . . , . do as u please.

noetic16:


Jittery at what? . . . Do as u please.

Whoa whoa whoa. Whats with the attitude, easy soldier.

Bet its not the ripe time or place to share this

@benodic-Thanks for taking time to usher your pooints, tho' I suggest you work with paragraphs & do more spacing next time,to make its more appealing to the eye.

I asked my question on Nigeria for one reason -what then is the point of meeting buddha,mohammed & 'Jesus' in the celestial plane when you can't effect any significant change in the society you live in?

@noetic 16,
i am very happy that you are gradually seeing my point.

concerning your question on why i left christianity. the answer is very simple. i was having inner spiritual experiences which no one in my church could explain and not even my pastor had a clue.
.
the only answers i was getting was that it was devil manipulation.
i had lots of questions about life and the seeming injustices in life. questions that Christianity did not have answers to.

let me give you a practical example. christianity teaches that once someone dies that what follows is judgement and after that it is straight to hell or heaven.

but when i was small and my father took me to the village i was taken to my uncle's house. as we were approaching the house, my inner vision opened and i had a very vivid recollection of having lived in that house before. i remembered being related to my uncle as his junior brother and we were not in good terms. i hated my uncle on sight and did not greet him. everyone was wondering at my behaviour. when we got home i told my dad not to take me to see that man again.

following that experience i started having more past life memories. i remembered being a soldier and that made me to hate violence.

unfortunately no one in the church could understand these past life memories i was recalling. they said i was possessed.
i made some researches on my own to find out about the person i was in my past life and the information i got was similar to the memories i was remembering.
christianity said that there is nothing like reincarnation. but i was a living proof of reincarnation. i continued my search for truth asking God to guide me.

then i came across the teachings of Eckankar. Eckankar teaches that as souls God brought us down here to learn how to love. at the end of a person's lifetime if he has not finished learning the lessons of love, then he will reincarnate to continue from were he stopped. what controls reincarnation is what we call the Law of Karma. which is the law of cause and effect. what you sow is what you reap. if you commit so many atrocities on earth and then  you die then you will reincarnate and will have to go through a very hard life in other to pay back the bad things you did. and in the process of this paying you will start learning how to love.

the more you learn how to love the more God can use you as Its channel. the ultimate goal in Eckankar is God realization in which you come to a personal experience in which you finally realize your relationship with God. after that you become a co-worker with God and God can send you to any of its planes or even earth to work for It as a spiritual master.

the main difference between Eckankar and christianity is that we do not stop at belief. you must have spiritual experiences to authenticate your belief.  your experience then becomes you authority and no one can take it away from you.
we do not ask any one to belief any thing we say. but rather make effort to get in touch with the holy spirit of God which is within all souls. the holy spirit will lead you to all truth.

if you still have any questions feel free to ask.

@illusion 2
you have to understand that this earth is a school.

we are here to learn how to love. if conditions were perfect on earth it will be very easy to say you can love. so God deliberately mixed things up a bit. created different colours of people, created different tribes and languages and allowed for numerous religions and went ahead and gave us free will to do as we please.

it will be very easy of course to give love to some one who shares the same religion as you or someone who speaks the same language as you. but the question now is, can you be able to give that love when the person is from another religion or from another tribe?

Nigeria as it is now is one of the best places on earth for soul to grow spiritually.

why?

because things are very hard here.

if you can in the midst of the adversity that is in this country not succumb to negative things in order to survive and continue giving love to all you meet then you will find yourself a much blessed person.

what matters is not the environment you find yourself but how are you becoming a better person.

so you see the problem of nigeria is a spiritual problem. until the individuals in this country becomes spiritually liberated and learn to love themselves and others then and only then will we see a light at the end of the tunnel.


and mind you it is my ability to converse with the spiritual masters that has enabled me to love indiscriminately without minding the persons tribe or religion.

@benodic:

As an Eck Chela (student), do you care to please explain some complications that shroud the Eckankar religion? Why the cover-ups? Why the shady past? Why is ECKANKAR’s history clouded in controversy?

1. Paul Twitchell, the founder of ECKANKAR, has plagiarized, spurned his own spiritual teacher, Kirpal Singh, (not to mention cover-up any connection to him), and has probably fabricated the ECK masters such as Rebazar Tarzs. What do we do, just ignore these well-researched allegations?

2. How the Flute of God was published in a magazine called Orion between 1965 and 67. Kirpal Singh and Swami Premanada’s names occurred throughout. Then, how Paul Twitchell, after parting ways with his spiritual teacher, switched every reference of Kirpal Singh and Swami Premananda to Rebazar Tarzs and Sudar Singh in the book publication, and claimed that Tarzs made him the 971st Mahanta (living representation of God)?

3. It stands to reason that Rebazar Tarzs was fictional. How else does one explain the vast amount of quotations in Dialogues With The Master attributed to Rebazar Tarzs when in fact they were copied practically verbatim from Julian Johnson’s (who coincidentally lived in the same state. Kentucky, as Paul Twitchell did) previous works? Where does that leave the validity of Rebazar? I really don’t know? What of the other ECK masters?

4. Johnson wrote in a distinctive style which reflected (for better or worse) his upbringing, his cultural values, his racism, his sexism, and the 1930s in which he was writing. Johnson also made a number of spelling and grammatical errors (which were only corrected in later editions in the 1970s and 1980s - long after Twitchell's own death). Now Twitchell not only duplicates Johnson's seasoned and nuanced style, but he also copies verbatim his grammar/spelling mistakes. Moreover, when Johnson does quote other writers from other "worldly" sources (read: not astrally deposited books), he properly cites them and their respective texts. When Twitchell plagiarized Johnson he forgot to differentiate between Johnson's own writing and Johnson's quoted material. Thus, by this very simple blunder Twitchell exposed the secret behind his writing: he was parroting what he had read from The Path of the Masters and With a Great Master in India.

5. Twitchell was truly one of the great plagiarists of the 20th century. There are not many successful authors who have copied whole books from other writers and gotten away with it. Twitchell thought he could because he was using rather obscure material. Julian Johnson's book were popular to a very select audience and not generally known to the reading public. Twitchell didn't just plagiarize from Johnson; he plagiarized from a variety of sources; it just happens that Johnson was his favorite author to crib from. By the way, all Twitchell had to do was properly cite and contextualize his material. I don't see why this is so hard to do. Grammar school kids are taught to reference materials. Why can't an Eckankar Master do the same?

To tell you the truth, I do not expect you to answer any of these questions because as is said amongst you:

To ridicule, to scorn, to speak mockingly of the words of the Mahanta, and not to have faith in him and the cause of ECK is to bring woes on the advocator of doubt. It brings his karmic progress to a halt, increases his incarnations in this world, and causes him to suffer untold hardships.

Isn’t this a little heavy-handed and manipulative? Why does ECKANKAR need to make threats like this? If this is supposed to be a path of LOVE, is this kind of language necessary? Will this happen to you because Paul Twitchell said so?

eck is a fraud.their mahanta is just like any occult persona but on a spiritual plane.u will meet him if u go there.

@benodic,thanks for spacing out your thoughts as advised. . . .    

So why did God set up this 'game' of going back & forth to learn how to love?

From your point of view, why not just enligthen us  about love one time ?

What is responsible for someone becoming evil (lacking love)?

Is it the person himself or the devil?

@InesQor (m)

on the contrary, i will surprise you by replying your assertions about Eckankar.

i had taken time to go through the accusations heaped on the modern day founder of Eckankar, paul twitchell and i have also taken time to do my own researches.

after thorough researches and of course soul searching too. i came to a very simple conclusion.

truth does not belong to any one individual or any religion for that matter. truth is a universal property of God which It makes available to every soul who has the ability to tap into it and make use of it.

there is no exclusive rights when it comes to truth. what matters is not how the truth was revealed. what matters is what you as an individual soul is doing with the revealed truth.

how is the truth that you have learned bringing you closer to God and making you a better person. If you soul travel to the 2nd heaven where the akashic records are kept you will find that these manuscripts containing truth is there for any soul that is able to understand it and make use of it.

i am sure that you have heard of the phenomenon of 2 scientists in different parts of the world stumbling on the same discovery at the same time without either of them having made contact with each other.


concerning the part of the shariyat ki sugmad that you quoted, i can assure that it is a matter of understanding. a writen word is one thing and understanding it is another thing.

just like the same case with the christian bible. the difference in Eckankar is that i can soul travel and meet paul twitchell who wrote the book and get direct clarification from him or i can simply tune in to the holy spirit and get a better understanding on what was written.

Eckankar is a very practical path and the emphasis is not on arguments but rather on you doing your own spiritual research and finding things out directly for yourself. your experiences then become your authority.

@babaearly

if you care to know, i will enlighten you a little.

ECK means holy spirit and ANKAR means the way.

so ECKANKAR means the way of the holy spirit.

through the spiritual exercises of ECK one is able to experience the light and sound of God.

this is a real experience and not hear say. once you come in contact with the light and sound of God then changes start coming into your life and love starts entering your heart.

that is why no matter how you abuse the Eck or the Mahanta i will never get angry and i will never abuse you back. i can only give you love because it is my nature as soul to love.

@ illusion2
thanks for your insightful question.

in the beginning souls were with God in the ocean of love and mercy, which is the abode of God.

but these souls created in the image and likeness of God were immature and could not understand or comprehend their divine nature.

so in order to help these souls to develop their full potentials God created what we know as the lower planes with earth inclusive. souls were then sent down to these planes to start their lessons in order to realize their divine nature.

God then created the person christians know as the Devil. we call him Kal in Eckankar.

the work of the Devil is to provide exams just like in a school to find out which soul has developed enough to go back home to God.

the exams that Kal sets is what christians call temptations and we call them trials.

so you see the Devil is working for God. there is no quarrel between them. that is why he has to tempt Jesus to find out if he was really ready for his mission.

the same happens to all of us. the journey of souls spans millions of life times. this is because it takes a lot of time and effort for a change of consciousness to occur. souls will keep on coming back to the lower planes until it becomes a lover of life.

then and only then will the circle of rebirth close for it. the person who has mastered the lessons of love goes on to become a spiritual master and becomes a co- worker with God.


i am still open to more questions.

benodic:

@ illusion2
thanks for your insightful question.

in the beginning souls were with God in the ocean of love and mercy, which is the abode of God.

but these souls created in the image and likeness of God were immature and could not understand or comprehend their divine nature.

so in order to help these souls to develop their full potentials God created what we know as the lower planes with earth inclusive. souls were then sent down to these planes to start their lessons in order to realize their divine nature.

God then created the person christians know as the Devil. we call him Kal in Eckankar.

the work of the Devil is to provide exams just like in a school to find out which soul has developed enough to go back home to God.

the exams that Kal sets is what christians call temptations and we call them trials.

so you see the Devil is working for God. there is no quarrel between them. that is why he has to tempt Jesus to find out if he was really ready for his mission.

the same happens to all of us. the journey of souls spans millions of life times. this is because it takes a lot of time and effort for a change of consciousness to occur. souls will keep on coming back to the lower planes until it becomes a lover of life.

then and only then will the circle of rebirth close for it. the person who has mastered the lessons of love goes on to become a spiritual master and becomes a co- worker with God.


i am still open to more questions.

Yepa !

@benodic
Interesting submissions you have made here, even though i tend to agree with some of your submissions especially on the issues of loving others, alot of things about eckankar just doesn't add up. Apart from the fact that it was a "religion" invented plagiarised form other religions as recently as the sixties and all the other credibilty crisis sorrounding it, i also gather it operates in a cult like fashion with a lot of secrecy sorrounding the inner workings of the movement. I even read somewhere that it was started as a business before it "changed" into a religion. Also i would like to ask, is the love you talk about reall? as in practicalized or is it just lip service? One of my greatest dissapointments in christian worship today is the way the majority of christian faithfuls/churches conviniently ignore this greatest commandment to love in christianity and pursue the trivial and more convinient ones. They even invent false doctrines like tithes, first fruit and seed sowing through twisted scriptures and put so much importance on these scams than whilst ignoring the true teachings of our Lord Jesus christ.

On a parting note i suggest you re-visit christianity with the knowledge you have now gained. Approach it strictly from the biblical perspective[new testament] and forget Church doctrines and traditions of men that have taken over most of our churches. You may still yet discover that Jesus Christ is The way The truth and The life. The problems with the christian religion today is not the founder but our christian leaders. Don't throw away the baby with the bath water.

@KunleOshob

i want to start by answering your first question which if the love i am talking about is real. the answer is emphatically YES!!.

once you start doing the spiritual exercises and singing the holy name of God, HU. you are opened to the holy spirit which is seen as a light and heard as a sound.

that is why Eckankar is known as the religion of the light and sound of God.

once the holy spirit starts coming into your life your heart will start opening to the love of God.

your nature changes to pure love.

so my dear you will find yourself naturally giving love to everybody and all life.

i am telling you from experience and not hear say. as i am now i can not imagine myself doing harm or injustice to any of God's creatures.

i am always looking for opportunities to distribute to life this divine love that is flowing from my heart.

concerning coming back to christianity.

that will not be possible because you have to understand that i will be attacked by people who do not understand my experiences in life or what i stand for in life.

please bear in mind that i do not have any quarrel with Jesus Christ. he indeed is a wonderful spiritual master who brought the teachings of love at a time when there was nothing but savagery on earth.

but you have to know that there is only one way to God and that way is the Holy spirit of God.

the spiritual masters that have come into existence are channels for the Holy spirit of God and when they talk about being the way, the truth and the light they talking not as themselves as a personality but as the pure channel of the Holy spirit of God.

that is why Jesus and paul placed so much emphasis on the holy spirit and of course remember that jesus said he will send the comforter to the disciples who will lead them to all truth.

how to contact the holy spirit is what modern christianity has lost and that is what Eckankar has brought out to the world again.