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Stats: 2,231,301 members, 4,882,482 topics. Date: Monday, 22 April 2019 at 03:23 AM
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by scholes0(m): 1:17am On Feb 11, 2018|
you think I have his time?
He can remain there and continue lamenting all night.
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by Nobody: 1:20am On Feb 11, 2018|
Not to be rigid but I think the ‘Oyo Oba’ thing is a revisionist attempt at localising the source of ‘Yoruba’ as a nomenclature. Asides from ‘Oyo Oba’ another revisionist angle is ‘Yo ru ebo’. These revisionisms aimed at nationalising the etymology of ‘Yoruba’ considering every group is doing it these days. Personally, recognising the hard fact that we didn’t regard ourselves as Yoruba and none of the major blocks referred to each other as Yoruba until the 19th century, I am inclined to go with the theory of ‘Yoruba’ which Sultan Bello told Clapperton about - which Clapperton recorded but Sultan Bello was referring to Oyo at that time. Oyo to Hausa/Fulani was Katunga while the people of Oyo were Yoruba. Sultan Bello said the Yoruba people (of Katunga) migrated from Mecca with a certain group in northern Nigeria (Oyo palce & Samuel Johnson hijacked Oduduwa into this Mecca story of the Oyo). This gives the etymology of Yoruba which was corrupted to Yoruba & later became one of the numerous encompassing nomenclatures for us - Yoruba, Anago & Aku.
Baba the emboldened go hard o, na Awori dialect & na person wey sabi the dialect go fit help but I’ll look at texts in the house tomorrow to see what I can find.
Make I add one more word. Ebutte-Metta, usually regarded these days to mean three shores(?). See the screen shot below for its original etymology.
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|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by jara: 1:24am On Feb 11, 2018|
My little contribution
Many Yoruba do not know where the name came from. Every Ethnic group in Nigeria (their cousins) has taken the advantage to interpret the name, Yoruba. Even before, they came in contact with one another, in the recent past.http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl?md=read;id=2305
So what is Bala Usman’s proof that the name "Yoruba" is an "Hausa name"? It is so, to repeat, because, he says, "the earliest record [sic] we have of the use of the very name 'Yoruba' was in the Hausa language" -- from the writings of a man born in 1595! But in fact the name Yoruba was used by a Timbucktu theologian, Ahmad Baba, who was already a distinguished scholar long before Dan Masani was born in 1595. Moreover, Ahmad Baba (1556-1627) wrote in Arabic, not in the Hausa language. Ahmad Baba was captured along with other Songhai intellectuals by Moroccan Arab invaders of Songhai in 1591 – four years before Bala Usman’s Dan Masani was born -- and was taken to the Maghreb. On his return from captivity, Ahmad Baba complained bitterly, saying Muslims, Arab or African, were not supposed to be enslaved, as he was: "The Muslims among [the Blacks], like the people of Kano, Katsina, Bornu, Gobir, and all of Songhai are Muslims, who are not to be owned. Yet some [Muslims] transgress on the others unjustly by invasion as do the Arabs, Bedouins, who transgress on free Muslims and sell them unjustly" (see Hilliard 1985: 162). But in further argument with Arabs, Ahmad Baba allowed that non-Moslem Blacks, on account of their lack of faith, could be enslaved. Among these were the Yoruba. Ahmad Baba's infamous words were as follows:
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|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by Konquest(m): 1:26am On Feb 11, 2018|
I need to sign off from this thread to
digest your brilliant summations in
your last post... and to avoid derailment
from the off topic post of the 3rd entity
Thanks a lot for your GREAT summations
on Egbeta, Usen and other communities in Edo States.
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by scholes0(m): 1:31am On Feb 11, 2018|
I have also heard the Yagba morphing into Yari.ba and Yoruba theory.
The Yagbas are in Kogi now.
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by scholes0(m): 1:32am On Feb 11, 2018|
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by Konquest(m): 1:41am On Feb 11, 2018|
I want to thank both of YOU
on your perspectives on the etymology
of the name "Yoruba."
My take has always been that Yoruba
was coined from the name OYO... derived
from Oyo Empire. [Oyo Oba or Yoruba]
according to some archival sources.
This being used to describe all subgroups
that have links with Ife.
I thank both of you for your judicious use
of pictures/pictorial screenshots in your
posts on this topic.
If I have anymore questions on these
issues you have raised, I'll get back to you.
All the best!
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by Konquest(m): 1:44am On Feb 11, 2018|
Thanks for this post and Weblinks.
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by AreaFada2: 1:59am On Feb 11, 2018|
It is very difficult to educate people who refused to learn.
In the wake of 1897 war heralding end of Benin Empire, it became apparent that many will try to twist history.
The British were determined not to educate Benin people. They feared that with the anger over destruction of Benin & exile of Oba Ovonramwen, if Benin people are educated, they would become some of the most fervent anti-colonialists.
In a memo from the resident British governor in Benin, to British govt in Westminster, he warned that they should not make the mistake they made in Sierra Leone & Lagos colony. You know Fourah Bay College educated Africans were some of the earliest African nationalists.
But on ground British officers claimed there was no more money to fund schools or assist missionary schools. Even though Benin Province was about the most buoyant in Southern Nigeria due to the booming rubber latex produce for automobile/bicycle tyres along with oil palm and cocoa.
When Oghada community (very affluent farming community back then) volunteered to fund a school for 100 boys in their community, colonial officials refused still.
Therefore Edo was set deliberately set back educationally.
Meanwhile Yorubaland had schools. From where many got sponsored abroad to study. By the time Edo people became educated, SW people had already written a Yoruba-centric history. When Edo people now wanted to set the record straight, they said Benin was fabricating history.
But the silver lining in 1897 defeat is that stunning Benin arts flooded Western museums and they had to sit up and research it. Coupled with notes of Portuguese, French, Dutch and English explorers over the centuries, a clear picture emerged of a very sophisticated and advanced Benin society from even the 15th century.
This prominence has caused much envy since. I have seen how highly regarded Benin arts and history are in Museums in UK, Holland, France, Germany and several others.
Envy has made our SW cousins to try denying that Benin Empire ever existed. At other times they claim Benin art was a copy of Ife art.
Now as for Itsekhiri, they were clearly Benin vassals. Making them part of the wider Benin Empire. Their first Olu was Prince Ginuwa of Benin. He was the son of Oba Olua of Benin. I have written several times on it here on NL.
As for Anioma, Biafra war caused many lasting consequences. Since then, politically Anioma has aligned closer to core Igbo.
But a look at the book/memoir " The Interesting Narrative of the Life of Olaudah Equiano, or Gustavus Vassa, the African" (1789) is quite revealing. A slave who gained freedom, fought against slavery and wrote his memoir. In it he clearly states that he's an Ibo by tribe and a citizen of Benin Kingdom.
In imperial times Benin Empire had Edoid people, swathes of Yorubaland, Izon, Anioma and several others as part of it.
The Oba reluctantly allowed non-Edo people in the empire to engage in slave trade because those tribes insisted. It was a compromise to ensure peace. But selling a Benin person by anyone or a Benin person selling anybody of any tribe was forbidden.
This has been misinterpreted as Benin selling other tribes.
That is why today Benin has no real slave diaspora in the Americas.
A French slave trader documented that of the 100 slaves for sale he saw on the way to Gwatto/Ughoton port, there was not a Benin person and no seller was a Benin person. Records are there to verify.
To be continued.
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|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by Nobody: 7:43am On Feb 11, 2018|
Baba, that is also possible.
Unraveling the etymology of the word will take quite a lot of research.
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by Nobody: 7:45am On Feb 11, 2018|
If you could share the archival sources with us somehow, it would be nice.
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by Konquest(m): 8:54am On Feb 11, 2018|
You may wish to read this article CLEARLY
DISCREDITING Bala Usman's claims
about the origin of the name Yoruba.
Let's dive right in via the 2 Web links below:
"THE MISCHIEF OF HISTORY: BALA USMAN'S UNMAKING OF NIGERIAN HISTORY"
By Peter Ekeh
Chair, Urhobo Historical Society
"Origin of the Name Yoruba" [Thread Topic Title]
[look for the post on page 1 of that thread
by a guy called EWURO].
We can gain more useful insights from
those sources about the use of Oyo Oba
or Oyo Alafin as the source of the name
All the best!
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by Nobody: 9:39am On Feb 11, 2018|
Thank you, egbon mi.
Baba, I should say that I did not read all of it but skimmed through mostly to the part detailing our theme of discussion. I guess this information throws the ‘Sultan Bello narrative’ out of the window then.
The most interesting part about the read was, after I read the part discussing the first use of the word ‘Yoruba’, I decided to go to the end of it for citations/references but then I saw P. P. Ekeh - I was like ah! Why didn’t Mr. Konquest just say the theory was put forward by Professor Ekeh. Na one of the few legends for the trade wey I dey ply be that o. Who am I to hold a dissenting opinion? I can only agree o
Now that we have 1595 as the date in which the word ‘Yoruba’ was first used. This means the word has most likely been in circulation centuries before for to have gone as far as Songhai. However, if we 1595 carries weight then we also have to look at Oyo town from whatever date it emerged to 1595. Oyo was not yet an empire or a formidable state in the 16th century for it to have gotten attention in as far as Songhai, Oyo town was still grappling with establishing itself against Nupe, it was not until mid-17th century that Oyo hit the lottery ticket of army and empire building.
Which then takes us further back, which of the Yoruba towns could have given the Yoruba word its popularity. Finding this will bring us closer to its actual etymology. The early ‘Yoruba’ states before and around this 1595 were Ketu and Owu, the latter was a regional power house that held sway across the present S/western Nigeria, Oyo filled its position when a war (that has not been detailed) made them migrate down south from around the area Oyo-Ile established itself.
These are my own thoughts. The link you shared jabbed my thoughts further back and I would like to hear your thoughts as well as Messers Scholes0 and Mr. Macof. I wish egbon Katsumoto would lend his time to this discussion too.
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by 9jakool: 10:09am On Feb 11, 2018|
A fun fact: The traditional ruler of Yagba kingdom of Ayede in Ekiti state is referred to as "Attah(Ata)" of Ayede. I too don't think Ebira or Igala originate from the Jukun as many would like to claim. The Kwararafa kingdom existed in the 16th century and both the Igala and Ebira have been in existence along the confluence far prior to that. Like you said, their languages are not even related.
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by macof(m): 10:27am On Feb 11, 2018|
It's their kings that originated from Jukun
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by 9jakool: 10:33am On Feb 11, 2018|
The Meccah thing is obviously absurd. Also, the first mentioning of Yoruba in writing was in the 1500s by a Songhai scholar named Ahmed Baba in a treatise, in which he described the kingdom. Oyo traded with the Songhai and many Songhai scholars were present within Oyo's boundary. There was even a point that they conquered much of Kebbi state.
Names include Yoruba, Anago, Nago, Olukumi, Aku, etc. Also, the term "Yoruba" is more used in Nigeria and with the British than anywhere else. Yorubas in Benin, Togo, as well as diaspora throughout much of W.Africa are more commonly/historically referred to as Anago or Nago.
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|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by 9jakool: 10:35am On Feb 11, 2018|
Are you saying the people willingly allowed foreigners to rule over them?
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by Nobody: 10:42am On Feb 11, 2018|
I wasn’t pushing the Mecca theory. I was only saying the word may have originated from Hausa/Fulani description of the people of Katunga as Oyo. The Ahmed Baba angle is an interesting theory I have never really pursued.
At the emboldened: I think your postulation there is quite a bit of a stretch considering Oyo was struggling to exist all through its early years and was grappling with just Nupe under Tsoede as at 16th century.
It didn’t become a power bloc or an empire until 17th century. So I wonder how it conquered Kebbi or had Songhai settlers when Oyo was getting sacked and evacuating to Igboho, Borgu & so on with every invasion.
I am not saying it is impossible, I am only grilling it with hopes of getting boxed in a corner of satisfaction.
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by macof(m): 11:47am On Feb 11, 2018|
The jukuns expanded their territory into Igala and Egbira lands. Placed their people in power as Attah at Idah, but the Attahs eventually led a war of independence
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by jara: 12:32pm On Feb 11, 2018|
I think we have to be careful and flexible with dates which were approximated. Before Oyo Empire became a powerful force, it does not mean the people never existed or traded or waged war with one another.
Ife itself had a reputation as far back as Greek and Arab historians even when many of them never stepped into the rainforest. It was too dangerous because of tse Tse fly and malaria as the Moroccan invaders found out in search of gold.
Ife that gave birth to Oyo and known as Uhe in Benin could be traced before the time of Christ.
My own struggle is the closeness in oral history between Obatala that existed in BC and Oduduwa in AD. It does not make sense. This is why some historians claim Oduduwa was before Christ.
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by Nobody: 12:47pm On Feb 11, 2018|
Please don’t get me wrong or maybe I didn’t state my opinion clearly enough.
I didn’t mean Oyo or her people were not existence before empire but for it to have been known in as far as Songhai where Ahmed Berber was taken captive by slavers means the name ‘Yoruba’ had long been in existence before Ahmed Berber was born probably.
The question now is what brought about Oyo’s ‘popularity’ was it trade? If trade, Oyo was unstable prior to 16th century to be a trade center. Maybe from Nupe & Bariba conquests of Oyo and ensuing enslavement of those captured?
I’m just in thoughts about the gap between Oyo and Ahmed Baba in Songhai. What was the connection?
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by 9jakool: 2:39pm On Feb 11, 2018|
Y0ruba:Yes I know you aren't pushing the Meccah theory, it's usually the lost Arab wannabes who believe that nonsense.
I didn't say Oyo conquered Kebbi, the Songhais did. I mention this to show the distance proximity between the two. In fact, the Songhais under Askia The Great in the 1500s encroached well into the borders of modern day Nigeria. Much of the Northwestern parts of Nigeria was under their control. Just to show you how far they encroached, the Nupes lived directly South of the Songhai's conquered territories. The 1500s also happened to be a period of scholarships among them and one of the scholars that lived during that time period was Ahmed Baba who wrote about Oyo. Do you see the connection?
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|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by 9jakool: 2:45pm On Feb 11, 2018|
macof:I didn't know that. Well with that in mind, it's safe to say that they didn't necessarily originate from the Junkuns.
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by Nobody: 3:13pm On Feb 11, 2018|
I see it now, thank you.
Songhai Empire encroaching here didn’t come to mind at all. Obviously, with Soghai up North and Nupe & Oyo down south then there was the possibility of contact from war, diplomacy, trade and migration.
Thank you, baba.
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|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by macof(m): 4:20pm On Feb 11, 2018|
9jakool:I have heard claims that Sango studied the quran in Songhai
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by macof(m): 4:22pm On Feb 11, 2018|
9jakool:far from it. The Jukun culture or language isn't even a visible influence over Igala. Edo and Igbos have more influence over them, and they were never under Edos or igbos
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by Konquest(m): 2:43pm On Feb 12, 2018|
Professor Peter Ekeh is the Chair of Urhobo Historical Society
He is the Professor of African American Studies, at the State University of
New York at Buffalo.
He was formerly Professor of Political Science at the University of Ibadan.
'History of the Urhobo People of the Niger Delta" was edited by Peter Ekeh.
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by Olu317(m): 12:50pm On Feb 13, 2018|
Konquest:Agege is a coined word from ‘a gè igi', ( trees cutter) because that was used as reference to people who were settlers and engage in Timber business. In the olden days that area was heavily forested and deforestation begun when the Awori and the likes were into sales of wood. And this word slowly lost the original form it was meant.
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|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by Konquest(m): 7:05pm On Feb 14, 2018|
Thanks for adding more flesh to this Agege
etymology. Igi means tree or wood for those
who may not know...
In fact I read in one of the archival
documents that as of 1910, elephants
were still conspicuously roaming in
the forests of Agege in Lagos State.
You won't believe such things existed in
the past in Lagos because of the heavily
built up nature of the metropolis and
the outskirts. If you get to Sheraton Hotel
in Ikeja, the valley that is located at the back
which connects to Opebi contains crocodiles,
boa constrictors, and other wild animals in
their natural habitat - which represents the
vestiges of the vast forests that existed in
Lagos State decades back!
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by Olu317(m): 9:01pm On Feb 14, 2018|
Konquest:You are welcome boss. I am familiar with that terrain very well because , I virtually grew up in Ogba and had family members settled down in such place as present day Iju , (Ala)agbado when it was filled with thick forest as you had informed. Agege was an extension of Aworis from Otta Axis, Isheri Olofin etc.
|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by Efewestern: 5:20am On Feb 18, 2018|
Cc: macof, konquest, scholes0 ... you guys might want to keep a tab on this blog owned by an iwerre man http://globalpeacearithmetic.blogspot.co.ke/?m=1.. The man is pro Yoruba and has written many articles especially about SEY.
wrote about the genetic make up of his people as it all tally with their Yoruba root.
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|Re: Yoruba Names By Region by Konquest(m): 6:31pm On Feb 18, 2018|
How are you doing today?
Thanks for giving us something new to
read. I love reading about a wide range
of cultures on continental Africa - and
on a global scale... deeply appreciate!
All the best!
P.S. @Efewestern, I discovered after my
last post to you that the bespectacled
U.S.- based Urhobo man [Waphyguy on
YouTube] with an Itsekiri mother who took
a DNA test with DNALand.com, which
confirmed his Paternal ancestry match
to Esan [Edoid], and Maternal ancestry DNA
links to Yoruba [his mum being an Itsekiri],
has removed the 2 YouTube videos that
he had uploaded for over 4 years now.
Fortunately, I downloaded "Waphyguy's" 2 YouTube videos on the DNA test results
on my laptop device, and also uploaded
them to Google Drive.
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