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Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? - Religion - Nairaland

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Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by Oricha62(m): 6:51am On Jan 20, 2018
Brief Introduction to "Quran Tafsir" What it is and Why We Need it We start with the word "Quran"

The word "Quran" in Arabic means "Recitation" (not written word). Too many people today are telling us what the Quran of Allah is and what it means.

All too often we are hearing from both Muslims and Non-Muslims; 'The Quran says this-or-that and the Quran means so-and-so' without giving reference to their actual source for meaning and understanding.

Many misconceptions, misquotes, misunderstandings and misrepresentations are tossed around in the media, news and public discussions about Islam and what it teaches.

The solution is to go back to the original source in the original language as understood by the people who first heard the Quran from the lips of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, along with his own definitions and explanations.

The good news is the Quran exists today in its entirety, exactly as it at the time of the prophet, peace be upon him.

The prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, heard the words directly from the Angel Gabriel (Jibril in Arabic) and these words were memorized by Muhammad, peace be upon him, and then recited to his companions, who then memorized and passed on these same words to their followers and this has continued to this very day.

The first word Angel Gabriel spoke to Muhammad, peace be upon him, was "Iqra", which comes from the same root for Quran, and it was a command to "Recite!" (Many people, even Muslims today think this word meant 'read', but it is incorrect because the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was not able to read or write). Immediately we see the importance of going back to the most authentic and original source - the Quran in Arabic - to better understand the meanings.

The Word TAFSIR is an arabic word تفسير which is derived from the root 'fassara' . Someone who writes tafsir is a 'mufassir...". IBN KATHIR - Famous Mufassir (commentator of Quran) مفسر . Well known and respected for his keen memory and a highly regarded scholar of tafsir (commentary) - Born 1302 AD. Memorized entire Quran, word-for-word along and memorized huge number of sayings and teachings (hadeeth) of the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, along with sayings and commentary about Quran from Muhammad's companions, may Allah be pleased with them. The Tafsir of Ibn Kathir is of the most respected and accepted explanations for the Quran and is the most widely used explanations in Arabic used today. The difficulty of translating Quran to English is quite another problem and not one to be taken lightly nor is it for the average translators to decide what is meant by the words of Almighty God.

While we agree it is impossible to bring the exact meaning of everything from Quran to English, it is our intention to bring about a better understanding for non-Arab speakers at least a basic understanding of the meaning of the Quran for the English speaking readers.
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by butterfly777(m): 7:12am On Jan 20, 2018
You said 'Iqra does not mean read bacause Mohammed could not read and write' . This is a pathetic fallacy and shows your write up is based on sentiment, not logic and objectivity. You cant just reject the meaning of a word because it doesnt tally with the little information you have. The information is even likely to be incomplete and untrue.

1 Like

Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by Kylekent59: 7:54am On Jan 20, 2018
Correct your subject op
Why do Muslims and not why does Muslims
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by Oricha62(m): 9:22am On Jan 20, 2018
Kylekent59:
Correct your subject op
Why do Muslims and not why does Muslims

What to correct in my subject,tell me ?
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by enilove(m): 9:29am On Jan 20, 2018
Oricha62:

What to correct in my subject,tell me ?
Change the "does" to "do".

1 Like

Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by Oricha62(m): 9:30am On Jan 20, 2018
butterfly777:
You said 'Iqra does not mean read bacause Mohammed could not read and write' . This is a pathetic fallacy and shows your write up is based on sentiment, not logic and objectivity. You cant just reject the meaning of a word because it doesnt tally with the little information you have. The information is even likely to be incomplete and untrue.

Your level of assimilation is very low.
I said iqraa and quran come from the same root word ,QARA'A.
Iqraa is a command word but Quran means that which is read.
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by Oricha62(m): 9:32am On Jan 20, 2018
enilove:


Change the "does" to "do".
Thanks so much .
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by true2god: 10:38am On Jan 20, 2018
Oricha62:


Brief Introduction to "Quran Tafsir" What it is and Why We Need it We start with the word "Quran"

The word "Quran" in Arabic means "Recitation" (not written word). Too many people today are telling us what the Quran of Allah is and what it means.

All too often we are hearing from both Muslims and Non-Muslims; 'The Quran says this-or-that and the Quran means so-and-so' without giving reference to their actual source for meaning and understanding.

Many misconceptions, misquotes, misunderstandings and misrepresentations are tossed around in the media, news and public discussions about Islam and what it teaches.

The solution is to go back to the original source in the original language as understood by the people who first heard the Quran from the lips of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, along with his own definitions and explanations.

The good news is the Quran exists today in its entirety, exactly as it at the time of the prophet, peace be upon him.

The prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, heard the words directly from the Angel Gabriel (Jibril in Arabic) and these words were memorized by Muhammad, peace be upon him, and then recited to his companions, who then memorized and passed on these same words to their followers and this has continued to this very day.

The first word Angel Gabriel spoke to Muhammad, peace be upon him, was "Iqra", which comes from the same root for Quran, and it was a command to "Recite!" (Many people, even Muslims today think this word meant 'read', but it is incorrect because the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was not able to read or write). Immediately we see the importance of going back to the most authentic and original source - the Quran in Arabic - to better understand the meanings.

The Word TAFSIR is an arabic word تفسير which is derived from the root 'fassara' . Someone who writes tafsir is a 'mufassir...". IBN KATHIR - Famous Mufassir (commentator of Quran) مفسر . Well known and respected for his keen memory and a highly regarded scholar of tafsir (commentary) - Born 1302 AD. Memorized entire Quran, word-for-word along and memorized huge number of sayings and teachings (hadeeth) of the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, along with sayings and commentary about Quran from Muhammad's companions, may Allah be pleased with them. The Tafsir of Ibn Kathir is of the most respected and accepted explanations for the Quran and is the most widely used explanations in Arabic used today. The difficulty of translating Quran to English is quite another problem and not one to be taken lightly nor is it for the average translators to decide what is meant by the words of Almighty God.

While we agree it is impossible to bring the exact meaning of everything from Quran to English, it is our intention to bring about a better understanding for non-Arab speakers at least a basic understanding of the meaning of the Quran for the English speaking readers.
I am sorry bro, the Quran you have today is not the Quran of Mohammed ibn Abdullah but the handwork of uthman ibn Affan, the 3rd khalifah. Many Quranic verses had been cancelled or burnt before the final compilation, by uthman ibn Affan, what you have today as the quran.

The hadith below might be of a bit help to you:

Sahih bukhari: Volume 4, Book 52, Number 69 :

Narrated by Anas bin Malik:

For thirty days Allah's Apostle invoked Allah to curse those who had killed the companions of Bir-Mauna; he invoked evil upon the tribes of Ral, Dhakwan, and Usaiya who disobeyed Allah and His Apostle. There was reveled about those who were killed at Bir-Mauna a Quranic Verse we used to recite, but it was cancelled later on. The Verse was: "Inform our people that we have met our Lord. He is pleased with us and He has made us pleased".

Sahih bukhari
Volume 3, Book 31, Number 169 and 170 :
Narrated by Tawus

Ibn 'Abbas said, "Allah's Apostle set out from Medina to Mecca and he fasted till he reached 'Usfan, where he asked for water and raised his hand to let the people see him, and then broke the fast, and did not fast after that till he reached Mecca, and that happened in Ramadan." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "Allah's Apostle (sometimes) fasted and (sometimes) did not fast during the journeys so whoever wished to fast could fast, and whoever wished not to fast, could do so."

sahih bukhari Volume 3, Book 31, Number 170 :
Narrated by Nafi:

Ibn 'Umar recited the verse: "They had a choice either to fast or to feed a poor person for every day, and said that the order of this Verse was cancelled.

Where are the above ayas written in the Qur'an? The above verses have been removed, cancelled, deleted, removed, declined and expunged from the Qur'an, according to your own authoritative source, sahih bukhari. If that's the case, how many more Qur'anic verses had been cancelled by men when allahh said it the Qur'an that his words can never be changed by men (Quran 6:115). So it is either the current Qur'an is never the word of any allahh or Mohammed was confused when he said allahh's words can never be changed.

You said jibril revealed the Qur'an to Mohammed, please can you show me a single place/proof where jibril personally told Muhammad 'I AM JIBRIL'?

3 Likes

Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by true2god: 10:54am On Jan 20, 2018
butterfly777:
You said 'Iqra does not mean read bacause Mohammed could not read and write' . This is a pathetic fallacy and shows your write up is based on sentiment, not logic and objectivity. You cant just reject the meaning of a word because it doesnt tally with the little information you have. The information is even likely to be incomplete and untrue.
Iqra, or ikra, in Arabic means 'read'. This is one of the first words the entity, whom waraqa told Mohammed was jibril, asked Mohammed to do (according to sirah rasul allah by ibn Ishaq). How is it that that the entity never knew Mohammed couldn't read?

If Muslim apologist spin the word ikra to mean 'recite', what was Mohammed to recite, since that was the first encounter with Mohammed? It's like a stranger seeing another stranger in an open desert and the second stranger asking the first stranger to 'recite' without any form of formal introduction or familiarization. No reasonable communication can be started by two strangers without any form of introduction.

The so-called jibril never told Mohammed he was jibril and Mohammed never knew the so-called jibril was jibril. It was Mohammed's uncle that told him it was jibril he met at the cave of hirah. Did waraqa see or hear from the so-called jibril? No. So essentially, waraqa started Islam, and not Mohammed.

3 Likes

Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by butterfly777(m): 11:52am On Jan 20, 2018
Its either the spirit that spoke to Mohammed knew Mohammed could actually read , or The great spirit who came with such celestial message did was ignorant about Mohammed's literacy ability, or its all a rooster and bull story. Its also possible that the story is a mixture of truth and lies.
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by olajide21: 12:12pm On Jan 20, 2018
To start with, you are asking in the wrong place. Ask the Muslims and you would get the answers that you need.
Tafsir of the verses of the Quran means an explanation of these verses. You don't expain ayah; verses of the Quran in isolation. Sometimes, you study the preceding and succeeding verses before you can explain these verses. Some cases, you study the story or reason for the revelation of these ayah before you can understand the ayah; verses.
In all these, you need someone who had done.further study of the Quran to do justice to such verses.
So next time you come across those verses being passed around in non muslim circles, do yourself a favour and confirm the Tafsir of those verses before you faward.
Besides, books of Tafsir are available online. Google is your very friend.
English Quran is also available online and offline. Seek the truth and the truth would be your companion in the hereafter.
May Peace be upon you all.
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by enilove(m): 12:24pm On Jan 20, 2018
butterfly777:
Its either the spirit that spoke to Mohammed knew Mohammed could actually read , or The great spirit who came with such celestial message did was ignorant about Mohammed's literacy ability, or its all a rooster and bull story. Its also possible that the story is a mixture of truth and lies.

The problem Muhammed had with the demon gabriel was that
he was forgetful:

Book 004, Number 1720:
Sahih Bukhari :
'A'isha reported that the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) heard a person reciting the Qur'an at night. Upon this he said: May Allah show mercy to him; he has reminded me of such and such a verse which I had missed in such and such a surah.

2 Likes

Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by Oricha62(m): 12:27pm On Jan 20, 2018
true2god:
I am sorry bro, the Quran you have today is not the Quran of Mohammed ibn Abdullah but the handwork of uthman ibn Affan, the 3rd khalifah. Many Quranic verses had been cancelled or burnt before the final compilation, by uthman ibn Affan, what you have today as the quran.

The hadith below might be of a bit help to you:

Sahih bukhari: Volume 4, Book 52, Number 69 :

Narrated by Anas bin Malik:

For thirty days Allah's Apostle invoked Allah to curse those who had killed the companions of Bir-Mauna; he invoked evil upon the tribes of Ral, Dhakwan, and Usaiya who disobeyed Allah and His Apostle. There was reveled about those who were killed at Bir-Mauna a Quranic Verse we used to recite, but it was cancelled later on. The Verse was: "Inform our people that we have met our Lord. He is pleased with us and He has made us pleased".

Sahih bukhari
Volume 3, Book 31, Number 169 and 170 :
Narrated by Tawus

Ibn 'Abbas said, "Allah's Apostle set out from Medina to Mecca and he fasted till he reached 'Usfan, where he asked for water and raised his hand to let the people see him, and then broke the fast, and did not fast after that till he reached Mecca, and that happened in Ramadan." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "Allah's Apostle (sometimes) fasted and (sometimes) did not fast during the journeys so whoever wished to fast could fast, and whoever wished not to fast, could do so."

sahih bukhari Volume 3, Book 31, Number 170 :
Narrated by Nafi:

Ibn 'Umar recited the verse: "They had a choice either to fast or to feed a poor person for every day, and said that the order of this Verse was cancelled.

Where are the above ayas written in the Qur'an? The above verses have been removed, cancelled, deleted, removed, declined and expunged from the Qur'an, according to your own authoritative source, sahih bukhari. If that's the case, how many more Qur'anic verses had been cancelled by men when allahh said it the Qur'an that his words can never be changed by men (Quran 6:115). So it is either the current Qur'an is never the word of any allahh or Mohammed was confused when he said allahh's words can never be changed.

You said jibril revealed the Qur'an to Mohammed, please can you show me a single place/proof where jibril personally told Muhammad 'I AM JIBRIL'?



Thanks so brother,you don't have to say sorry ,you are entitled to your opinion provided there is harsh words in your opinions.

You said the Quran of today is that uthman not The Qur'an revealed to prophet Muhammad(saw) because of abrogated verse in the Quran.

WHAT YOU SAID IS NOT TRUE.

Yes,there are abrogated verse in the Qur'an for a valid reasons BUT both verses are present in the Quran of today.
Quran was revealed within the period of twenty three years to prophet Muhammad(saw) before he passed away. It wasn't revealed once as a single but gradually with the periods mentioned. The first surah revealed to him by angle Jibril was ssuratulAlaq.verse 1-5 when he was in the cave hira.Angel jjibrilintroduced himself to the prophet Muhammad(saw) before the revelation.
prophet Muhammad(saw) ask a companion named Zaid bin thabbit to record any surah or verse revealed before die.and Also many companions memory the Qur'an because prophet normally teach them any surah revealed.

When prophet (saw) died, majority of people that memoried Qur'an were killed.
Uthman fear that he may loss the Qur'an without getting to the generation of Muslims.
He thought of the only solution is to complile it in one book.
Zaid bin thabit was ask to put Quran together. People that memories then were called to affirm its correctness. which they affirmed.

After the death of the prophet Muhammad(saw) ,revelation stop.
Abrogated verses,the new and old are still present in the Quran of today.

THANKS FOR YOUR QUESTION.

Now give me the abrogated verse that is not in the quran of today as you claimed.
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by Oricha62(m): 12:33pm On Jan 20, 2018
enilove:


The problem Muhammed had with the demon gabriel was that
he was forgetful:

Book 004, Number 1720:
Sahih Bukhari :
'A'isha reported that the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) heard a person reciting the Qur'an at night. Upon this he said: May Allah show mercy to him; he has reminded me of such and such a verse which I had missed in such and such a surah.

Did you read the hadith well ?

Angle jibril normally read the entire Quran with prophet Muhammad(saw) every Ramadan before he passed away.

Do you know the number of Ramadan that passes during his time?
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by true2god: 1:15pm On Jan 20, 2018
Oricha62:




Thanks so brother,you don't have to say sorry ,you are entitled to your opinion provided there is harsh words in your opinions.

You said the Quran of today is that uthman not The Qur'an revealed to prophet Muhammad(saw) because of abrogated verse in the Quran.

WHAT YOU SAID IS NOT TRUE.

Yes,there are abrogated verse in the Qur'an for a valid reasons BUT both verses are present in the Quran of today.
Quran was revealed within the period of twenty three years to prophet Muhammad(saw) before he passed away. It wasn't revealed once as a single but gradually with the periods mentioned. The first surah revealed to him by angle Jibril was ssuratulAlaq.verse 1-5 when he was in the cave hira.Angel jjibrilintroduced himself to the prophet Muhammad(saw) before the revelation.
prophet Muhammad(saw) ask a companion named Zaid bin thabbit to record any surah or verse revealed before die.and Also many companions memory the Qur'an because prophet normally teach them any surah revealed.

When prophet (saw) died, majority of people that memoried Qur'an were killed.
Uthman fear that he may loss the Qur'an without getting to the generation of Muslims.
He thought of the only solution is to complile it in one book.
Zaid bin thabit was ask to put Quran together. People that memories then were called to affirm its correctness. which they affirmed.

After the death of the prophet Muhammad(saw) ,revelation stop.
Abrogated verses,the new and old are still present in the Quran of today.

THANKS FOR YOUR QUESTION.

Now give me the abrogated verse that is not in the quran of today as you claimed.



Bros don't be deceitful, we have studied Islam and discovered that it is a pack of lie by some group of illiterate Arab bandits in the medieval ages who are hell bent on global conquest using religion as a means to achieving that goal. You need to study Islam, with an open mind, and a little bit smart to understand this simple fact.

On the points you raised, there is a difference between abrogated and cancel verses. The abrogated verses are still in the Qur'an while the cancelled verses are no longer in the Qur'an. The cancelled verses were no included among what uthman ibn Affan compiled and called the Quran. As a matter of fact, allahh's apostle, that is Mohammed, never asked Muslims, in his life time, to compile the Quran as a religious book.

The Qur'an was allegedly revealed in two cities, mecca and Medina. Mohammed's Qur'an in mecca was conciliatory and diplomatic because he was used to be a persecuted minority in the hand of the Meccans. This verse was revealed in mecca when Mohammed was weak. Sura al-baqra 2:256, 'there is no compulsion in religion.....'

The above ayah was abrogated by this ayah below, which was revealed in Medina, Qur'an 9:28-30, 'fight those who do not believe in allahh or the last days...' These two ayah are contradictory to a non-muslim but to a Islamic scholar, the second revelation nullified the first and the two ayahs are still in the Quran.

There are many more verses in the Qur'an like that that abrogated each other. The cancelled ayah are nowhere found in the Quran.

The verse of stoning adulterer is in the hadith but nowhere in the Quran. it was also cancelled (sunnah ibn maggah hadith number 1944):

It was narrated that 'Aishah said:

“The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed 1, and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.”

Stoning of adulterers to death is still halal under the 5 schools of Islamic jurisprudence, it is in the hadith of bukhari, Muslim and the sunnah of ibn maggah and Abu dawood but nowhere in the Quran, why? Is it that allahh could not ensure that it is also contained in the Qur'an?
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by butterfly777(m): 1:26pm On Jan 20, 2018
You did not remember to state that thr Quran was not inexistence during Mohammed's lifetime. That after Mohammed's demise, there were varied 'qurans' . This made some concerned muslims of that time decide that a unified Quran was necessary. They gathered some people who told them of ones Surahs they could remember for the compilers to put down. That some accounts wre rejected while some were favoured. Some parts were loat while some were incoherent. This accounts for what you see in the account as unrelated issues just crop up in one Surah, and some Surahs appears unintelligible. You should also remember to tell people that the Quran was compiled a long time, perhaps hundred of years after the prophet, and the prophet was no where alive to check if thecontents of the Quran of today is from him or not.
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by butterfly777(m): 1:28pm On Jan 20, 2018
Some Quranic books that wre not favoured by some people were also burnt to make the other ones appear unified and coherent.
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by true2god: 2:14pm On Jan 20, 2018
Oricha62:

Did you read the hadith well ?

Angle jibril normally read the entire Quran with prophet Muhammad(saw) every Ramadan before he passed away.

Do you know the number of Ramadan that passes during his time?
Stop this bro, there is nothing like 'the entire Quran' when Mohammed was alive and there is nowhere any jibril used to read any 'entire Quran' to Mohammed. The so-called revelations were allegedly revealed bit by bit under different circumstances and different locations, notably mecca and Medina.

While the so-called angel jibril gave the revelations, the sahabas, who among are zaid ibn thabit and Abdullah ibn sarh ibn abi sard wrote them down. This so-called revelations are written on leaves, horse back, bones, and any other place so that some of the sahabas can always remember an ayah. There is no any of the sahaba that commited the entire revelation into memory.

A sahaba can commit 2 ayah, some 3, etc. So when the apostle of allahh died and uthman wanted to preserve his legacy, asked all the surviving sahabas to come and recite whatever ayah they might have in their memory, this is how the Quran was made: See hadith below:

Sahih al-Bukhari Book 60 Hadith 201
Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari: who was one of those who used to write the Divine Revelation:

Abu Bakr sent for me after the (heavy) casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra' were killed). 'Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said, 'Umar has come to me and said, The people have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle of) Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be more casualties among the Qurra' (those who know the Qur'an by heart) at other battle-fields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost, unless you collect it. And I am of the opinion that you should collect the Qur'an." Abu Bakr added, "I said to 'Umar, 'How can I do something which Allah's Apostle has not done?' 'Umar said (to me), 'By Allah, it is (really) a good thing.'

So 'Umar kept on pressing, trying to persuade me to accept his proposal, till Allah opened my bosom for it and I had the same opinion as 'Umar." (Zaid bin Thabit addedsmiley Umar was sitting with him (Abu Bakr) and was not speaking. me). "You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you (of telling lies or of forgetfulness): and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Apostle. Therefore, look for the Qur'an and collect it (in one manuscript). " By Allah, if he (Abu Bakr) had ordered me to shift one of the mountains (from its place) it would not have been harder for me than what he had ordered me concerning the collection of the Qur'an. I said to both of them, "How dare you do a thing which the Prophet has not done?" Abu Bakr said, "By Allah, it is (really) a good thing. So I kept on arguing with him about it till Allah opened my bosom for that which He had opened the bosoms of Abu Bakr and Umar.

So I started locating Quranic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leaf-stalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart). I found with Khuzaima two Verses of Surat-at-Tauba which I had not found with anybody else, (and they were):-- "Verily there has come to you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty He (Muhammad) is ardently anxious over you (to be rightly guided)" (9.128) The manuscript on which the Quran was collected, remained with Abu Bakr till Allah took him unto Him, and then with 'Umar till Allah took him unto Him, and finally it remained with Hafsa, Umar's daughter.

This is how your Qur'an came to be finally brought together as a single religious book. And you know what, uthman ibn Affan burnt some copies of the Quran he didn't agree with. Why did uthman burn some copies of the Quran that might have been used as today's evidence for or against Islam?

1 Like

Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by Oricha62(m): 2:23pm On Jan 20, 2018
true2god:
Stop this bro, there is nothing like 'the entire Quran' when Mohammed was alive and there is nowhere any jibril used to read any 'entire Quran' to Mohammed. The so-called revelations were allegedly revealed bit by bit under different circumstances and different locations, notably mecca and Medina.

While the so-called angel jibril gave the revelations, the sahabas, who among are zaid ibn thabit and Abdullah ibn sarh ibn abi sard wrote them down. This so-called revelations are written on leaves, horse back, bones, and any other place so that some of the sahabas can always remember an ayah. There is no any of the sahaba that commited the entire revelation into memory.

A sahaba can commit 2 ayah, some 3, etc. So when the apostle of allahh died and uthman wanted to preserve his legacy, asked all the surviving sahabas to come and recite whatever ayah they might have in their memory, this is how the Quran was made: See hadith below:

Sahih al-Bukhari Book 60 Hadith 201
Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari: who was one of those who used to write the Divine Revelation:

Abu Bakr sent for me after the (heavy) casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra' were killed). 'Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said, 'Umar has come to me and said, The people have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle of) Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be more casualties among the Qurra' (those who know the Qur'an by heart) at other battle-fields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost, unless you collect it. And I am of the opinion that you should collect the Qur'an." Abu Bakr added, "I said to 'Umar, 'How can I do something which Allah's Apostle has not done?' 'Umar said (to me), 'By Allah, it is (really) a good thing.'

So 'Umar kept on pressing, trying to persuade me to accept his proposal, till Allah opened my bosom for it and I had the same opinion as 'Umar." (Zaid bin Thabit addedsmiley Umar was sitting with him (Abu Bakr) and was not speaking. me). "You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you (of telling lies or of forgetfulness): and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Apostle. Therefore, look for the Qur'an and collect it (in one manuscript). " By Allah, if he (Abu Bakr) had ordered me to shift one of the mountains (from its place) it would not have been harder for me than what he had ordered me concerning the collection of the Qur'an. I said to both of them, "How dare you do a thing which the Prophet has not done?" Abu Bakr said, "By Allah, it is (really) a good thing. So I kept on arguing with him about it till Allah opened my bosom for that which He had opened the bosoms of Abu Bakr and Umar.

So I started locating Quranic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leaf-stalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart). I found with Khuzaima two Verses of Surat-at-Tauba which I had not found with anybody else, (and they were):-- "Verily there has come to you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty He (Muhammad) is ardently anxious over you (to be rightly guided)" (9.128) The manuscript on which the Quran was collected, remained with Abu Bakr till Allah took him unto Him, and then with 'Umar till Allah took him unto Him, and finally it remained with Hafsa, Umar's daughter.

This is how your Qur'an came to be finally brought together as a single religious book. And you know what, uthman ibn Affan burnt some copies of the Quran he didn't agree with. Why did uthman burn some copies of the Quran that might have been used as today's evidence for or against Islam?

Answer my question before we continue the discussion.
Give me abrogated verse that is in the Quran of today?
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by Oricha62(m): 2:27pm On Jan 20, 2018
true2god:
Stop this bro, there is nothing like 'the entire Quran' when Mohammed was alive and there is nowhere any jibril used to read any 'entire Quran' to Mohammed. The so-called revelations were allegedly revealed bit by bit under different circumstances and different locations, notably mecca and Medina.

While the so-called angel jibril gave the revelations, the sahabas, who among are zaid ibn thabit and Abdullah ibn sarh ibn abi sard wrote them down. This so-called revelations are written on leaves, horse back, bones, and any other place so that some of the sahabas can always remember an ayah. There is no any of the sahaba that commited the entire revelation into memory.

A sahaba can commit 2 ayah, some 3, etc. So when the apostle of allahh died and uthman wanted to preserve his legacy, asked all the surviving sahabas to come and recite whatever ayah they might have in their memory, this is how the Quran was made: See hadith below:

Sahih al-Bukhari Book 60 Hadith 201
Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari: who was one of those who used to write the Divine Revelation:

Abu Bakr sent for me after the (heavy) casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra' were killed). 'Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said, 'Umar has come to me and said, The people have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle of) Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be more casualties among the Qurra' (those who know the Qur'an by heart) at other battle-fields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost, unless you collect it. And I am of the opinion that you should collect the Qur'an." Abu Bakr added, "I said to 'Umar, 'How can I do something which Allah's Apostle has not done?' 'Umar said (to me), 'By Allah, it is (really) a good thing.'

So 'Umar kept on pressing, trying to persuade me to accept his proposal, till Allah opened my bosom for it and I had the same opinion as 'Umar." (Zaid bin Thabit addedsmiley Umar was sitting with him (Abu Bakr) and was not speaking. me). "You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you (of telling lies or of forgetfulness): and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Apostle. Therefore, look for the Qur'an and collect it (in one manuscript). " By Allah, if he (Abu Bakr) had ordered me to shift one of the mountains (from its place) it would not have been harder for me than what he had ordered me concerning the collection of the Qur'an. I said to both of them, "How dare you do a thing which the Prophet has not done?" Abu Bakr said, "By Allah, it is (really) a good thing. So I kept on arguing with him about it till Allah opened my bosom for that which He had opened the bosoms of Abu Bakr and Umar.

So I started locating Quranic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leaf-stalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart). I found with Khuzaima two Verses of Surat-at-Tauba which I had not found with anybody else, (and they were):-- "Verily there has come to you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty He (Muhammad) is ardently anxious over you (to be rightly guided)" (9.128) The manuscript on which the Quran was collected, remained with Abu Bakr till Allah took him unto Him, and then with 'Umar till Allah took him unto Him, and finally it remained with Hafsa, Umar's daughter.

This is how your Qur'an came to be finally brought together as a single religious book. And you know what, uthman ibn Affan burnt some copies of the Quran he didn't agree with. Why did uthman burn some copies of the Quran that might have been used as today's evidence for or against Islam?

You asked questions which I answered but you don't believe it. Answer my question before we continue.
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by true2god: 2:35pm On Jan 20, 2018
true2god:
Stop this bro, there is nothing like 'the entire Quran' when Mohammed was alive and there is nowhere any jibril used to read any 'entire Quran' to Mohammed. The so-called revelations were allegedly revealed bit by bit under different circumstances and different locations, notably mecca and Medina.

While the so-called angel jibril gave the revelations, the sahabas, who among are zaid ibn thabit and Abdullah ibn sarh ibn abi sard wrote them down. This so-called revelations are written on leaves, horse back, bones, and any other place so that some of the sahabas can always remember an ayah. There is no any of the sahaba that commited the entire revelation into memory.

A sahaba can commit 2 ayah, some 3, etc. So when the apostle of allahh died and uthman wanted to preserve his legacy, asked all the surviving sahabas to come and recite whatever ayah they might have in their memory, this is how the Quran was made: See hadith below:

Sahih al-Bukhari Book 60 Hadith 201
Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari: who was one of those who used to write the Divine Revelation:

Abu Bakr sent for me after the (heavy) casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra' were killed). 'Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said, 'Umar has come to me and said, The people have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle of) Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be more casualties among the Qurra' (those who know the Qur'an by heart) at other battle-fields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost, unless you collect it. And I am of the opinion that you should collect the Qur'an." Abu Bakr added, "I said to 'Umar, 'How can I do something which Allah's Apostle has not done?' 'Umar said (to me), 'By Allah, it is (really) a good thing.'

So 'Umar kept on pressing, trying to persuade me to accept his proposal, till Allah opened my bosom for it and I had the same opinion as 'Umar." (Zaid bin Thabit addedsmiley Umar was sitting with him (Abu Bakr) and was not speaking. me). "You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you (of telling lies or of forgetfulness): and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Apostle. Therefore, look for the Qur'an and collect it (in one manuscript). " By Allah, if he (Abu Bakr) had ordered me to shift one of the mountains (from its place) it would not have been harder for me than what he had ordered me concerning the collection of the Qur'an. I said to both of them, "How dare you do a thing which the Prophet has not done?" Abu Bakr said, "By Allah, it is (really) a good thing. So I kept on arguing with him about it till Allah opened my bosom for that which He had opened the bosoms of Abu Bakr and Umar.

So I started locating Quranic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leaf-stalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart). I found with Khuzaima two Verses of Surat-at-Tauba which I had not found with anybody else, (and they were):-- "Verily there has come to you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty He (Muhammad) is ardently anxious over you (to be rightly guided)" (9.128) The manuscript on which the Quran was collected, remained with Abu Bakr till Allah took him unto Him, and then with 'Umar till Allah took him unto Him, and finally it remained with Hafsa, Umar's daughter.

This is how your Qur'an came to be finally brought together as a single religious book. And you know what, uthman ibn Affan burnt some copies of the Quran he didn't agree with. Why did uthman burn some copies of the Quran that might have been used as today's evidence for or against Islam?
Sahih al-Bukhari Book 61 Hadith 510
Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and the Christians did before." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.' (33.23)

Why did uthman ibn Affan burn some copies of the Koran and compiled the rest? What was he hiding from people? The current Qur'an is by uthman and had nothing to do with allahh or Mohammed.
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by true2god: 2:36pm On Jan 20, 2018
Oricha62:

Answer my question before we continue the discussion. Give me abrogated verse that is in the Quran of today?
Quran 2:256.
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by Oricha62(m): 4:23pm On Jan 20, 2018
true2god:
Quran 2:256.


READ THE TRANSLATION OF THE QUR'AN YOU QUOTED

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 256:
لَا إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِن بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىٰ لَا انفِصَامَ لَهَا وَاللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ

There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.


You are just arguing without knowledge.
The verse you quotes is NOT among the abrogated verses. If you disagree with me,then, WHAT IS AN ABROGATED VERSE IN ISLAM?
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by Oricha62(m): 4:31pm On Jan 20, 2018
true2god:
Quran 2:256.

It now crystal clear to me that you have no idea about abrogated verses in Quran.
It is only an ignorant among Muslims you can deceive not a practicing Muslims and the ones that study Islamic studies as a course.
May Allah used the little you about Islam to guide you to Islam.

I THANK ALLAH FOR HIS BLESSING UPON ME.
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by true2god: 5:19pm On Jan 20, 2018
Oricha62:



READ THE TRANSLATION OF THE QUR'AN YOU QUOTED

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 256:
لَا إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِن بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىٰ لَا انفِصَامَ لَهَا وَاللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ

There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.


You are just arguing without knowledge.
The verse you quotes is NOT among the abrogated verses. If you disagree with me,then, WHAT IS AN ABROGATED VERSE IN ISLAM?


You are getting it damn wrong. I taught I have explain this Islamic principles to you before. The latter ayah, if it contradicts the former ayah automatically abrogates it. Time and situation of events dictates what allahh allegedly sent down to Mohammed as a revelation.

Let look at the verses again:

surah al-baqara 2 ayah 256:

Yusuf Ali translation: Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth.

The ayah above talks about religious freedom when Mohammed was in Mecca in the formative years of Islam.

Now let's look at Quran 9:29:

Yusuf Ali translations: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

The second surah was allegedly given to Mohammed in Medina when Islam had matured and militarily strong to fight off the mushrikoons and the kafirs. The two ayah are very contradictory (to non-muslims) but not contradictory (to an informed Muslim, unlike you). The second ayah (Qur'an 9:29) is the latter ayah which abrogated the former ayah (Qur'an 2:256).

I believe you get this simple logic.
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by Oricha62(m): 6:07pm On Jan 20, 2018
true2god:
You are getting it damn wrong. I taught I have explain this Islamic principles to you before. The latter ayah, if it contradicts the former ayah automatically abrogates it. Time and situation of events dictates what allahh allegedly sent down to Mohammed as a revelation.

Let look at the verses again:

surah al-baqara 2 ayah 256:

Yusuf Ali translation: Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth.

The ayah above talks about religious freedom when Mohammed was in Mecca in the formative years of Islam.

Now let's look at Quran 9:29:

Yusuf Ali translations: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

The second surah was allegedly given to Mohammed in Medina when Islam had matured and militarily strong to fight off the mushrikoons and the kafirs. The two ayah are very contradictory (to non-muslims) but not contradictory (to an informed Muslim, unlike you). The second ayah (Qur'an 9:29) is the latter ayah which abrogated the former ayah (Qur'an 2:256).

I believe you get this simple logic.


Iam not surprised that non muslims claimed the above verses contradictory without knowledge for the following reasons

1. They are not a Muslim
2. They never believes in either Quran,hadith or Prophet Muhammad(saw).They only read to argue.
3. They never read the tafsir of the quran.
NOTE: tasfir is different from translation
4. They never learned asbab al-nuzul of each surah of the Quran.

IF YOU REMOVE THE ABOVE REASONS FROM YOURSELF,YOU WILL BELIEVE THAT THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION IN THE ENTIRE QURAN.


For any further discussion contact me through oricha62@gmail.com
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by enilove(m): 6:21pm On Jan 20, 2018
Oricha62:



Iam not surprised that non muslims claimed the above verses contradictory without knowledge for the following reasons

1. They are not a Muslim
2. They never believes in either Quran,hadith or Prophet Muhammad(saw).They only read to argue.
3. They never read the tafsir of the quran.
NOTE: tasfir is different from translation
4. They never learned asbab al-nuzul each surah of the Quran.

IF YOU REMOVE THE ABOVE REASONS FROM YOURSELF,YOU WILL BELIEVE THAT THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION IN THE ENTIRE QURAN.


Tell us how they are related.
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by Oricha62(m): 6:38pm On Jan 20, 2018
enilove:



Tell us how they are related.


Are you all ready to the REMOVE the reasons from yourselves?
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by Oricha62(m): 6:55pm On Jan 20, 2018
enilove:



Tell us how they are related.


You all can join me at Islamic online university (IOU) Qatar, to get the correct teaching of Islam. Not learning from the way some ignorant Muslims behave.
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by true2god: 7:53pm On Jan 20, 2018
Oricha62:



Iam not surprised that non muslims claimed the above verses contradictory without knowledge for the following reasons

1. They are not a Muslim
2. They never believes in either Quran,hadith or Prophet Muhammad(saw).They only read to argue.
3. They never read the tafsir of the quran.
NOTE: tasfir is different from translation
4. They never learned asbab al-nuzul of each surah of the Quran.

IF YOU REMOVE THE ABOVE REASONS FROM YOURSELF,YOU WILL BELIEVE THAT THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION IN THE ENTIRE QURAN.


For any further discussion contact me through oricha62@gmail.com
Why will I be a Muslim and lose my right to critical thinking?

Why should I believe in the Qur'an and the hadith, Arabian story books of no moral or educational significance to any non-arabic society. Each society has it unique moral codes, culture and value system.

Why must I believe in the tasfir when allahh, in the Quran, said his words are very clear. Are you telling me allahh is a bad communicator that need human beings to make his words comprehendable?

Why must I learn the exigencies of each surah when I have more profitable and reasonable things to do with my life?

I can't learn Islam from you, just as a prof cannot learn under the feet of a KG pupil.
Re: Why Do Muslims Need The Tafsir Of The Qur'an? by Oricha62(m): 8:27pm On Jan 20, 2018
enilove:



Tell us how they are related.


Why are you contradicting yourself?
You said I should tell you and I gave You directions .
What else do you want?

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