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"errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit - Religion - Nairaland

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"errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by Nobody: 8:12pm On Apr 18, 2010
1. Jesus Christ was rich. Really?

This particular phrase has been used to excuse the mindless pursuit of wealth by those in the WoF movement. I do believe that God does give wealth to some of His children He specially selects but He never promised us "riches" as we define it today. Constructive critics welcome.
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by e36991: 9:18pm On Apr 18, 2010
davidylan:


1. Jesus Christ was rich. Really?

This particular phrase has been used to excuse the mindless pursuit of wealth by those in the WoF movement.

I do believe that God does give wealth to some of His children He specially selects but He never promised us "riches" as we define it today.

Constructive critics welcome.


@^^

This is more of commentating as opposed to criticising or finding fault . . .

Jesus is and/or was rich and wealthy . . .

It must be said we are all entitled to be rich albeit there will always be the poor in the land as referenced below

Deu 15:11 KJV:


For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying,

Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.


John 12:8 NIV:


You will always have the poor among you, but you will not always have me."


But then, sure and technically, Jesus has an abundance of material possessions; possess large amount of properties;

and is well supplied with land, goods, money etc

The ownership of the colt or donkey in Luke 19:31 used to bug me big time

Luke 19:31 NIV:


And if any man ask you, Why do ye loose him? thus shall ye say unto him, Because the Lord hath need of him.


but then Psalm 24:1 and 1 Corinthians 10:26 brought it home and made the penny drop

Psalm 24:1 BBEV:


The earth is the Lord's, with all its wealth; the world and all the people living in it.


1 Corinthians 10:26 NIV:


for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it."


Though Jesus was/is rich as noted from the above two references He didnt at anytime advocate mindless pursuit of riches

Not all are making or taking the right decisions due to circumstances or otherwise to have riches

Not all are getting the wealth or riches in a righteous manner

Not all can handle or handling riches the righteous way

"But keep in mind the Lord your God: for it is he who gives you the power to get wealth,

so that he may give effect to the agreement which he made by his oath with your fathers, as at this day.
"

- Deuteronomy 8:18 Bible in Basic English

The key to riches and wealth is believing in the principles of Jesus and the key to salvation is believing in the person of Jesus
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by nauvel: 9:28pm On Apr 18, 2010
There is nothing wrong with the pursuit of wealth. The question is 'are you doing it the right way'?
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by aletheia(m): 9:31pm On Apr 18, 2010
I was about to start a thread titled: Was Jesus Rich?, before I saw this.
Some of the reasons advanced in support of this position is
"The Bible says that He [Jesus] had a treasurer-a treasury (they called it "the bag"wink; that they had one man who was the treasurer, named Judas Iscariot; and the rascal was stealing out of the bag for three-and-a-half years and nobody knew that he was stealing. You know why? Because there was so much in it, He couldn't tell. Nobody could tell that anything was missing, , if Jesus didn't have anything, what do you need a treasury for? A treasury is for surplus. It's not for that which you're spending. It's only for surplus-to hold it until you need to spend it. Therefore, He must have had a whole lot that needed to be held in advance that He wasn't spending. So He must have had more than He was living on."
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by nuclearboy(m): 11:11pm On Apr 18, 2010
Jesus rich? shocked

Well, Isaiah 53 describes His life as one of pain, denial and sorrows. How that translates into material wealth, I do not know. Above, Aletheia discusses Jesus "treasury/treasurer". I see that "bag" differently and believe it was so sparsely furnished they needed someone to do the accounts and be sure they could handle the next day. If this wasn't so, why did Jesus need money from a "fish" to pay tax? Why not just ask Judas to send 100 talents of gold from the unending bullion stores?

All these excuses to preach "money" are simply a scam directed against God's sheep.
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by Linusman(m): 11:30pm On Apr 18, 2010
Don't be deceived, Jesus as a man was not rich! Take it or leave it.
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by InesQor(m): 11:34pm On Apr 18, 2010
2. Please I need answers on this related one. Is it possible to control God using SEEDS, a high risk investment in a "man of God", often at his own suggestion or insinuation? Often the money may be borrowed or stolen in an attempt to purchase the will of God. How is this different from voodoo and witchcraft?
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by Nobody: 11:55pm On Apr 18, 2010
nauvel:

There is nothing wrong with the pursuit of wealth. The question is 'are you doing it the right way'?

that is true, but i feel the ill-informed use of Christ as "rich" to justify the wealth that churches and pastors flaunt today is wrong.

@ aletheia, infact that was the EXACT example used by the pastor to justify this claim. He said that the disciples having a treasurer meant that Christ had money but does the bible really teach that? If they had that much then why did they need a fish to pay taxes? Why did Christ say the son of man hath no place to lay His head when they allegedly had so much in the treasury? Does having a piggy bank signify wealth?

@ nuclear boy . . . its amazing how very few churches read Is 53. Its like no one wants to remember that His very life was associated with so much pain and suffering.

@ InesQor . . . you said something else i would have discussed later. Over the course of the preaching today . . . the pastor said that God blesses you ACCORDING to the measure you give. I havent found that justification in the bible YET. Why do we continue to teach these heresies in the church at the expense of real biblical doctrine?
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by Image123(m): 12:08am On Apr 19, 2010
I thought the Bible says that Jesus became POOR that we might be rich, or that poor means wealthy in the original. Some people have the original with them now se?
On 'seed sowing', as abused as it is, I see it as a law. A law of sowing and reaping, not necessarily into a pastor's life. It is give and it shall be given, it's not twisting God's hand. It's a law like the law of gravity. Anybody that gives to anybody reaps. It is blessed to give. Whether you're osama or st.Jesus, if you give you're on your way to reaping. That's how I see it sha.

1 Like

Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by aletheia(m): 12:47am On Apr 19, 2010
I do not in any way subscribe to the view that Jesus was rich in terms of material possessions. The biblical evidence weighs against that
1. He was born in a manger
2. At his dedication, Mary sacrificed two turtle doves which is a poor households sacrifice (Lev.12:2-cool
Lev 12:8 And if she cannot afford a lamb, then she shall take two turtledoves or two pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. And the priest shall make atonement for her, and she shall be clean.'"
Luk 2:24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.
3. He had no home or house to call his own
Mat 8:20 And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head."
4. He was buried in another man's tomb, a rich man's. If he was rich or his family, they would have buried him in his own family tomb. But this again proves that He had no money for this. Neither did his family nor the apostles have the money to buy such a burial, it was borrowed, actually donated to be exact. After all it would not be permanent. Jesus in his ministry had borrowed many things. A manger, He borrowed boats, He borrowed a colt; He borrowed a house for Passover and He was buried in a borrowed tomb. Christ came in complete humility as stated in 2 Cor. 8:9
2Co 8:9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich.
5. Jesus sent the disciples out without money ( Mt. 10:9-12)
6. The Temple tax which Peter paid For Jesus and himself did not come out of the pocket of their treasurer. Matt. 17:24- 27. If the disciples had money as Faith teachers claim Jesus would not have had Peter go fish for a coin, they would have already had it.
7. Other people provided his needs
Luk 8:3 and Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Herod's household manager, and Susanna, and many others, who provided for them out of their means.
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by Mudley313: 1:57am On Apr 19, 2010
Image123:

I thought the Bible says that Jesus became POOR that we might be rich, or that poor means wealthy in the original. Some people have the original with them now se?
On 'seed sowing', as abused as it is, I see it as a law. A law of sowing and reaping, not necessarily into a pastor's life. It is give and it shall be given, it's not twisting God's hand. It's a law like the law of gravity. Anybody that gives to anybody reaps. It is blessed to give. Whether you're osama or st.Jesus, if you give you're on your way to reaping. That's how I see it sha.

sharrrap dia, work hard n u shall receive

law of gravity ni, law of thieving pastors ko
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by Joagbaje(m): 6:10am On Apr 19, 2010
davidylan:

1. Jesus Christ was rich. Really?

This particular phrase has been used to excuse the mindless pursuit of wealth by those in the WoF movement. I do believe that God does give wealth to some of His children He specially selects but He never promised us "riches" as we define it today. Constructive critics welcome.

"Jesus Christ was rich " is it not in your bible.

2 Cor. 8:9
For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

Prosperity ; Dominion over lack is a majpr part of the package in Christ.

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.


Gods wants us to be prosperous and have dominion ove wealth , not for money to have dominion over us.
1 Tim. 6:17
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;


We are seed of Abraham, The blessing of Abraham is to have all things.
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by tempest01(m): 9:45am On Apr 19, 2010
Joagbaje:

"Jesus Christ was rich " is it not in your bible.

2 Cor. 8:9
For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

Prosperity ; Dominion over lack is a majpr part of the package in Christ.

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.


Gods wants us to be prosperous and have dominion ove wealth , not for money to have dominion over us.
1 Tim. 6:17
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;


We are seed of Abraham, The blessing of Abraham is to have all things.

If u r talking of material wealth then u r totally of point. How about Riches in Glory
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by nuclearboy(m): 12:05pm On Apr 19, 2010
@Joagbaje:

Are you sure you're not actually Chris Oyakilome?

Did you ever read Is 53 or all the points above which show Jesus as living (on Earth) the life of a humble peasant? And yes, His desire for us is that we have dominion over possessions NOT HUMANS! People who have true dominion have it over nature not over others. They utilize their curiosity and the creative instinct God has given us to conquer nature and bring about new things.

Why not work hard, design and build something, create an appliance that will serve men and for which men will glorify your Father in Heaven? Is the only way to wealth re-hashing the same old WOFer books under new titles and convincing people to bring their hard won earnings to your "store-rooms" on pulpits? Is that the creative capability we "inherit" from the Almighty. Ta le fi jo (what father do you resemble?) when you cannot create only convince? How many times in the Word do you see God striving to convince rather than create? Seems to me from my Bible that the only guy striving to convince he is the same without a creative instinct is satan.
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by Joagbaje(m): 12:29pm On Apr 19, 2010
Jesus did not live in riches on earth. He was rich but he became poor on earth for our sake. Even in his poverty he fed 5,000 rode donkey . He gave money to the poor, he wore seemles clothe that soldiers have to fight for to posess. In his poverty he was responsible for 12 hefty deciples with their family welfare . Yet he was poor, If that was poverty of Jesus , how much will his riches be. And yet he tasted this so called poverty so that I will be Poor no more. Then will I be justified to live in poverty. The bible was not talking about spiritual riches. Was Jesus spiritualy poor? If Jesus was spiritualy poor then I will agree that the riches is only spiritual riches.but if Jesus poverty was physicall , then the riches ought to be material also.
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by Enigma(m): 12:42pm On Apr 19, 2010
Pitiful as ever!

If Jesus seamless robe was that much of a standout ----- how come it was not so easy to identify Ho=im Him that it took a kiss from Judas to indicate which one of the men was Jesus?
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by nuclearboy(m): 1:23pm On Apr 19, 2010
nuclearboy:

@Joagbaje:
His desire for us is that we have dominion over possessions NOT HUMANS! People who have true dominion have it over nature not over others. They utilize their curiosity and the creative instinct God has given us to conquer nature and bring about new things.

Why not work hard, design and build something, create an appliance that will serve men and for which men will glorify your Father in Heaven? Is the only way to wealth re-hashing the same old WOFer books under new titles and convincing people to bring their hard won earnings to your "store-rooms" on pulpits? Is that the creative capability we "inherit" from the Almighty. Ta le fi jo (what father do you resemble?) when you cannot create only convince? How many times in the Word do you see God striving to convince rather than create? Seems to me from my Bible that the only guy striving to convince he is the same without a creative instinct is satan.

Have Dominion over the "EARTH"! Subdue IT and multiply! Sound familiar? The first exhortation God gave to man.

It DOES NOT SAY SUBDUE HUMANS. Nature and the earth belong to us; they are Man's "resources". Tap them, break them, create something from them and by so doing, multiply! HUMANS ARE God's "resources". Your resources should not come from convincing people to give you in lieu of the Almighty else you are "standing" in His place. Do you remember "I will set my throne on the sides of the North and will be like the Most High"? Who wants to take the place of God or be like Him or have the respect due to Him? SATAN! What happened to ALL OF US being priests today with Jesus being first? So if you decide to be my priest under Jesus covenant, you are saying you are a priest to Jesus Himself.

Can't you still understand? True it is that one will sacrifice anything for his desire but would you really sacrifice God for cash?
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by debosky(m): 1:53pm On Apr 19, 2010
Was Jesus rich?

He wasn't dependent on anyone else, he had enough to meet his needs and could access additional resources. There was never a moment when he had a need he couldn't meet - when asked for tax, he could get it from a fish, which shows that he could meet his needs by any means required.

The question to me is irrelevant - Jesus could meet his needs and those of the people around him. At no point was he in need to borrow, and he could multiply anything put in his control as he did with bread and with wine.

As to claims that he was poor because he was born in a manger, that is way off the mark. Being born in the manger simply reflected humility and a lack of room in the inn, NOT because Jesus' family couldn't afford it.

Secondly, there is no record that Jesus could not afford a tomb - that someone volunteered his tomb showed us the love that man had for Jesus.

Getting provision from 'others' is not a sign of poverty, it is a sign that Jesus was solely focused on his mission and had no time in a 3 year ministry on the earth to focus on acquiring things.

The key issue is this - was there ever a moment that Jesus needed to have something and couldn't have it?
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by Zikkyy(m): 4:06pm On Apr 19, 2010
debosky:

Was Jesus rich?

He wasn't dependent on anyone else, he had enough to meet his needs and could access additional resources. There was never a moment when he had a need he couldn't meet - when asked for tax, he could get it from a fish, which shows that he could meet his needs by any means required.

Acquiring material wealth will require either working for it or by inheritance, in this case from Joseph and Mary. I dont agree he had material wealth. Except you want to put a monetary value to the fact that he can access resources in a way no other man can.
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by Enigma(m): 4:16pm On Apr 19, 2010
debosky:

Was Jesus rich?
. . .
The question to me is irrelevant . . .

I'm afraid the question is not irrelevant. The prosperity "gospel" justifies its own existence in part on the basis of its answer to this question.

In fact, it is answering this question contrary to the previously almost unanimously accepted answer that forms part of the justification of the prosperity "gospel".

There are various false teachings flowing from how you answer this question; how do you like it:

- the misuse of "though He was rich He was made poor that we might be rich" (robbing that passage of its gloriousness)?

- spreading the lie that because Jesus rode a donkey (on the ONE occasion) and a donkey was the best form of transport at the time, that is why a WoF head honcho should drive a Rolls Royce (or the best car)?

- the lie that Jesus wore designer clothes [or equivalent], (yes, a WoF head honcho actually said this)?

- the lie that Jesus had a nice house, a big house (again said by a WoF head honcho)?

---------- all these and more to justify the prosperity "gospel", fleece the flock and turn people away from the true gospel and we say the answer to the question is irrelevant. No, if we say the answer to the question is irrelevant we would be to be complacent!
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by debosky(m): 11:11pm On Apr 19, 2010
@ Enigma

I said TO ME it is irrelevant - I have made no defences for the alleged claims of WoF ministries. If Jesus was able to meet all of his needs (whether by supernatural or natural means) and I am a child of God, i should be able to meet my needs also. That is my view, supported with Paul's statement of God meeting our needs from his riches in glory through Christ Jesus.

To be honest, apart from the potential misuse of the first passage you mentioned, I cannot say I've heard any of the other outlandish claims you reference.
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by Enigma(m): 11:25pm On Apr 19, 2010
debosky

It is all well and good that to you the question is irrelevant. To the Church as a whole and even to individual Christians, it is not irrelevant and should not be irrelevant. The false claim on that question makes a mockery of the Christian faith and leads to false doctrine. To my mind any Christian should be seriously concerned about the twisting of such a very important passage as 2 Cor 8:9!!! Additionally, perhaps if you were properly familiar with WoF doctrine and practice resulting from various falsehoods including those "outlandish" statements and worse, you might see the point that the Christian community, the Church, cannot afford to regard that question as irrelevant.

  cool

EDIT Here is an interesting read on the topic: Was Jesus Rich?
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by Lady2(f): 12:37am On Apr 20, 2010
Well, Isaiah 53 describes His life as one of pain, denial and sorrows.

one can still be rich and live a life of pain, denial, and sorrows. Besides Isaiah 53 was a prophecy of his Passion.

material wealth does not amount to a life of happiness as you assume.

alethia has given the most logical position so far.

I hope people understand that riches are not evil, money isn't evil, it is the abuse of it that is evil.
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by nuella2(f): 3:10pm On Apr 20, 2010
Matthew 19:29
    And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

Mark 10:29-30
    And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, [30] But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Added to eternal glory, Jesus said in this world, while we are here we will have land(fixed assets). Jesus did not say wait until you get to Heaven and enjoy, when Peter asked him in Mark 10:28. If we are to suffer lack and want on earth Jesus would have said so, he promised us hundredfold here on earth.
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by Nobody: 4:04pm On Apr 20, 2010
Its utterly pathetic how many American and Nigerian Christians use the church as a gambling hall.

Sow 10% get 100% back, all false doctrione !

No coincidence that God knew these false prophets will arise :

John 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.


2 Peter 2:3  And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.


This is a story that completely invalidates the lies of many prospoerity christians.

Someone in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.”

Jesus replied, “Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?”

Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”

And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man produced a good crop.

He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’

“Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods.

And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.” ’

“But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’

This is how it will be with anyone who stores up things for himself but is not rich toward God.



A word of advice to Pastors :


"Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the
oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for
filthy lucre,
but of a ready mind;"
1 Peter 5:2, KJV
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by Nobody: 8:27pm On Apr 20, 2010
debosky:

As to claims that he was poor because he was born in a manger, that is way off the mark. Being born in the manger simply reflected humility and a lack of room in the inn, NOT because Jesus' family couldn't afford it.

they couldnt even afford the lamb for the sacrifice so they used 2 turtledoves instead. Lev 12:8
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by debosky(m): 8:32pm On Apr 20, 2010
davidylan:

they couldnt even afford the lamb for the sacrifice so they used 2 turtledoves instead. Lev 12:8

Let's be clear here - what do the turtle doves have to do with the inn? The reason given in the bible was lack of room in the inn, not because they couldn't afford it, unless you have information the writers of the bible were not privy to.

Besides, Jesus' parents being unable to afford the 'standard' sacrifice while Jesus was a child is a completely different matter to my assertion that Jesus could meet all of his needs as an adult.

It's like saying although someone grew up in a low income family and later made it rich in adulthood* he cannot be regarded as being rich because his childhood was poor.

*(pure conjecture here, not saying Jesus made it rich)
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by Nobody: 8:36pm On Apr 20, 2010
debosky:

Let's be clear here - what do the turtle doves have to do with the inn? The reason given in the bible was lack of room in the inn, not because they couldn't afford it, unless you have information the writers of the bible were not privy to.

Besides, Jesus' parents being unable to afford the 'standard' sacrifice while Jesus was a child is a completely different matter to my assertion that Jesus could meet all of his needs as an adult.

The turtledoves say nothing about the inn but indicate quite clearly that Christ was born to a poor family that could not even afford a standard lamb for the sacrifice. We are not given any other indication that Christ's family either stayed poor or hit pay dirt later. On this basis it is wrong to hear from the pulpit . . . the unverifiable claims that Jesus was rich.
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by debosky(m): 8:42pm On Apr 20, 2010
@ david

Leave the family aside - or was Jesus still living with his parents at 33?
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by Nobody: 8:45pm On Apr 20, 2010
debosky:

@ david

Leave the family aside - or was Jesus still living with his parents at 33?

He was the first born of his family. Surely he would have inherited some wealth from them if they had. Was Jesus Himself rich?
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by debosky(m): 8:49pm On Apr 20, 2010
davidylan:

He was the first born of his family. Surely he would have inherited some wealth from them if they had. Was Jesus Himself rich?

You miss the point - if you looked at my analogy above, this was not about what wealth his family had or didn't have. When Jesus reached adulthood, was he in need and unable to meet his needs? That is the crucial question.

Whether that constitutes being 'rich' or not, can then be debated.

If someone preaches that Jesus was able to meet his needs and that implies being rich, that could be held as a legitimate viewpoint.
Re: "errors" I Hear On The Sunday Morning Pulpit by Nobody: 8:57pm On Apr 20, 2010
debosky:

You miss the point - if you looked at my analogy above, this was not about what wealth his family had or didn't have. When Jesus reached adulthood, was he in need and unable to meet his needs? That is the crucial question.

Whether that constitutes being 'rich' or not, can then be debated.

If someone preaches that Jesus was able to meet his needs and that implies being rich, that could be held as a legitimate viewpoint.

you and i both know that what is preached in WoF circles is not that Jesus was able to meet his needs. What they say is that Jesus had over and in abundance which they now use to justify a life of excess and wanton luxury.

If Christ was able to meet His needs then why did He talk about not having a home to lay his head? Why did he need a fish to pay his taxes?

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