patches689:


I am prepared to accept your assertion, but in the words of my man Thomas Sowell:

patches689:


You do know that the average American isnt Anglo-Saxon... right?

Start with the complications. In 1776, 80% of white Americans were of British stock (and as many were Protestants). Today only one in ten of the population claims British ancestry.

jln115:

- Accounting irregularities is not a more acceptable word to corruption, in fact it means exactly the same, the reason they used it was because they were quoting Deloittes audit opinion.... And as someone who studied chartered accounting, you don't simply use the word corrupt in an audit opinion since its unprofessional.

Also do your self a favour and go read Beeld or even the Rapport newspapers with regards to the Steinhoff scandal....... then translate bedrog, korrupsie, gevonnis while your at it.

ENCA is an Internet newspaper, ANN7 is a news broadcaster so not really the same, but anyway your notion of "it was only talked for one day" is so far fetched that either you are just that ignorent or a really bad troll..... ENCA alone had written over 15 articles over several weeks with regards to the steinhoff scandal and not only that it also reported how the Steinhoff debacle will have the highest impact on ordinary SAn then any other corruption SAGA in South Africa ever.

What the DA actually said since you love making up your own stories:https://www.da.org.za/2018/01/da-not-going-agree-pussy-foot-around-steinhoff-international-holdings-n-v/

Lastly you can't hold people accountable for being rich... Markus jooste yes but I don't see what the other 2 should be held accountable for.

kikuyu1:


I refrained from commenting for 2 reasons:not wanting to overload this thread and frankly that's small potatoes. Did you ever hear of the human arm found on a plane refuelling in Harare carrying hundreds of millions of rand,part of a nefarious scheme that's stolen trillions?


https://www.rt.com/news/332555-cargo-money-body-zimbabwe/

You can't even guess what these guys are up to! Its beyond the intelligence of normal human people-the little I do know of the Chosenites who rule RSA and their Satanic practices is that this may well have been some human sacrifice ishyt.

https://www.henrymakow.com/2014/11/insider-exposes-south-african-central-bank.html#sthash.7LnMsXvD.dpuf

Btw,she was the daughter of a former ANC book keeper in London. There she is ex RSB gov,Gil Marcus.

- See more at:

Instead people screech about Zuma's mansion(is he to live in a shanty!?) and state capture! Most of us have no idea of our real enemies. I digress-back to the topic at hand.

Lionessza:





Thanks for this . Guy, I already know most of what you posted, tell that to the average South African or African ,you will be viewed as an evil conspiracy theorist who is anti " peace and diversity " . We seem to not know who the real enemy is , coz the real enemy is always masquerading as a corruption crusader who is pro diversity and cares for the poor .


I've been telling some people, even on this site that the whole zuma "has destroyed SA " nonsense is nothing but that....Nonsense. Zuma touched on whitey money and the west came for him , that's it. How dare he want to kick out American and British interests from the mines ? . How dare he demands for the SARB to be nationalized? Does he know the impact of that to hungry westerners ?. Joining BRICS ? Did he think the imf would be happy about loosing one of their african slave nations? . Zuma brought this on himself . He should have done what most do. Shut the f up and let our resources feed the west .

abiodunalasa:
If SA parliament passed that law of land appropriation without compensation... Then they are on a revenge mission.

If they pass that law with compensation... Then they are after justice.

Fire cannot put out fire.

Lionessza:




I'm assuming you are talking about "fairness" here ? .


South Africa is a young democracy and should learn from old ones , and take one or two things from them and we have in a lot of situations.


What makes me laugh the most about this issue of " fairness " is that it's always the black man who has to be peaceful and fair . Majority white countries in similar situations aren't expected to play fair , infact no one and especially you Africans say a damn thing.


Let's look at one of the oldest democracies . "The leader of the free world " , " The protector of human rights", " The police of the world " AMERICA!. This a country with majority white people and they were the first to open their mouths about the "unfairness "and "reverse racism" of this decision.

Here is why I think they are jokers together with Africans like yourself; . 1. The red Indians were dispossessed of their lands in America by European settlers and were driven off to the reservations , after America became a democracy they asked for some of the arable land back and whitey didn't agree. They asked for compensation, until today that's still a hot issue. 2. After black slaves were freed , some were given pieces of land and they formed productive communities that traded well with each other until whitey became unsettled with blacks depending on each other ignoring him. They went into those towns and burned them down and caused the blacks to flee to the cities ( to work for white people and get paid peanuts this time again), whilst their lands were confiscated by jealous nazis. These people have been asking for the government to compensate them , and that will never happen lol. Only the white man is entitled to compensation. These blacks have never been compensated for slavery ( the American economy was built on their backs) , instead they were paid back with the welfare system that has rendered many of them useless and unproductive. Since the sixties , these people have been asking for the government to atleast compensate them with a bank of their own , they will be able to fund their own small and medium sized enterprises which will employ the youth in the ghettos and inner cities , as well as help their farmers in rural America access funding. Guess what? That will never happen, because it will be unfair to Mr white . The blacks will start trading amongst each other again. Black retail companies will pop out in those black dominated neighborhoods , they will be supplied by black farmers from rural America, which will mean less money for Mr whitey and that right there can never be allowed " It's unfair" lol.

Let's look at the British, who are the next to poke their noses on our business. Have they compensated the Jamaicans they brought into their shythole to help them rebuild their country after the war ? . Nope! That would be unfair , they are just black people after all.

I won't even touch on the hypocrisy of the Jew man, that one is out of this world.

Lionessza:



White south africans have made enough money with that land for over a hundred years , they can use that money to start new businesses , we are not taking their money or closing their bank accounts afterall (the South Africans here will know what I mean by this ). This ammendment to the Constitution is long overdue.

Lionessza:




Dude , every industry has their own words to describe corruption. The point here is that white media houses , everytime there is Corruption by a white owned company the headlines won't read " Corruption: let's look into steinhoff scandal " this is for non white companies . It will be something like " collision by banks ", or " looking deep into the steinhoff debacle " . Corruption is a dirty word and these papers know it.


We are not talking about insignificant newspapers here , I'm talking about media houses that are patronized by a huge number of people.


I'm talking about Enca the 24hr news broadcaster. The afriforum and soliditary pushed for it to be sacked at multichoice because it refuses to be part of the herd " white people are the only ones fighting corruption in SA" . But the decision will cost multichoice a lot and it's a pity jobs will be lost , but if the conversation going on between all stakeholders sees multichoice sticking with its decision then I support the call to burn down the company in August. They have monopoly in this sector and should encourage different views and choices, and not bow down to those with fragile egos " ann7 doesn't report what we want therefore it must be shut down " , WTF? Why not change the damn channel and watch Enca that will massage your little ego?. Should every channel you deem irritating be closed down? . Mind you, I'm not talking about you specifically coz I don't know your take on this.



Hahaha the DA wrote that on their own website ,who reads that anyways ?, it's called being polically correct. Why not call a press briefing and tell us how disgusted they are like they always do? Why not partner with the usual " civil organizations" and stage a protest at the JSE calling for Joostes head ? . Why not threaten to take him to court. Lmfao, get out of here with that.


The other two are the biggest crimminals in SA , right next to Jooste. I'm not talking about their pre 94 lootings, I'm talking about their current involvement with the SOE 's . Let all these exposed, starting with the never talked about evergreen contracts. Who is behind those ?

Lionessza:




I'm assuming you are talking about "fairness" here ? .


South Africa is a young democracy and should learn from old ones , and take one or two things from them and we have in a lot of situations.


What makes me laugh the most about this issue of " fairness " is that it's always the black man who has to be peaceful and fair . Majority white countries in similar situations aren't expected to play fair , infact no one and especially you Africans say a damn thing.


Let's look at one of the oldest democracies . "The leader of the free world " , " The protector of human rights", " The police of the world " AMERICA!. This a country with majority white people and they were the first to open their mouths about the "unfairness "and "reverse racism" of this decision.

Here is why I think they are jokers together with Africans like yourself; . 1. The red Indians were dispossessed of their lands in America by European settlers and were driven off to the reservations , after America became a democracy they asked for some of the arable land back and whitey didn't agree. They asked for compensation, until today that's still a hot issue. 2. After black slaves were freed , some were given pieces of land and they formed productive communities that traded well with each other until whitey became unsettled with blacks depending on each other ignoring him. They went into those towns and burned them down and caused the blacks to flee to the cities ( to work for white people and get paid peanuts this time again), whilst their lands were confiscated by jealous nazis. These people have been asking for the government to compensate them , and that will never happen lol. Only the white man is entitled to compensation. These blacks have never been compensated for slavery ( the American economy was built on their backs) , instead they were paid back with the welfare system that has rendered many of them useless and unproductive. Since the sixties , these people have been asking for the government to atleast compensate them with a bank of their own , they will be able to fund their own small and medium sized enterprises which will employ the youth in the ghettos and inner cities , as well as help their farmers in rural America access funding. Guess what? That will never happen, because it will be unfair to Mr white . The blacks will start trading amongst each other again. Black retail companies will pop out in those black dominated neighborhoods , they will be supplied by black farmers from rural America, which will mean less money for Mr whitey and that right there can never be allowed " It's unfair" lol.

Let's look at the British, who are the next to poke their noses on our business. Have they compensated the Jamaicans they brought into their shythole to help them rebuild their country after the war ? . Nope! That would be unfair , they are just black people after all.

I won't even touch on the hypocrisy of the Jew man, that one is out of this world.

White south africans have made enough money with that land for over a hundred years , they can use that money to start new businesses , we are not taking their money or closing their bank accounts afterall (the South Africans here will know what I mean by this ). This ammendment to the Constitution is long overdue.

Btw, the main reason the West is up in arms about this , is not because they care about white South Africans ( particularly the Boere), they know that this will also touch on the mineral land ( their main interest in the country). Even if we woke up and started a Boere genocide they wouldn't say a thing because the Boere doent have much interest in mines , he feeds on farmlands ( and they don't give a damn about that, just stay away from the minerals lol). We will not compensate criminality when victims of slavery and genocides have not been compensated until today. Fairness must be practiced by all. Stop the hypocrisy and double standards.

patches689:


"They did it in 1750, so we can do it in 2018"

And you wonder why they think we are backwards...

The results of the survey done by the department of rural development and land reform, which were announced in Pretoria during a Cabinet briefing this morning, also show that, of the 113 million hectares of land in the country, 96 million hectares belong to organisations and public entities, while the rest is unknown.

This means that government only owns 14% of the land compared with 79% of land in private hands, while 7% could not be verified.

Black people already own more than half of all agricultural land in two of South Africa’s most fertile provinces: the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal. This is according to an audit of land ownership, to be released this week.

Landowners who are not white own 26.7% of agricultural ground and control more than 46% of South Africa’s agricultural potential.

Twice as much land has been transferred to black entrepreneurs and farmers through ordinary commercial purchases than the state has managed to buy for black owners as part of its land redistribution programme, the study found.

kikuyu1:
I've been going over land ownership stats and realise certain assumptions are incorrect. The gov't isn't the largest land owner. Also,interestingly it appears,if figures are true, black land ownership has risen steadily. As of 2013
https://www.news24.com/Archives/City-Press/Most-SA-land-is-in-private-hands-survey-20150430

Also it seems blacks have empowered themselves individually without gov't initiatives to buy farmland:
https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/who-owns-sas-land-20171028

The figure shows the provincial breakdown of black farm buys post 1994. Hmmmmm....

abiodunalasa:


Yes, we know all these for a fact.
We know the Whites and the West have taken and they are still taking us for a ride.
Yet, we cannot let this tragic past and tumultuous present cloud our judgement.
We are not suppose to degenerate to their level of hate, cheating and racial prejudices. We are supposed to rise above their weakness.

Their wrong cannot and will not justify our own wrong.
We can show them a different perspective of humanity.



[b]LMAO,You sound like a pastor. I'm glad you are not in South African parliament. Always willing to take punches and forgive, basically you expect Africans to act like the battered wife with nowhere else to go . BOTHA " you will beat up and abuse an African and he will always come back to apologize for the beating" . He was talking about the likes of you. You have even accepted the abuse as normal (referring to the bolded). Your sisters are crossing the Mediterranean Seas to get to Europe following the resources that you willingly give to European men so they can feed their own women and children. What Africa needs is not some morally upright willing slaves but men with vision and will. These religions of" peace "have really done a number on you. Lmfao @ show them a different perspective of humanity . Dude, Whitemen put their families and race first not humanity and you can fantasize of " converting " them one day but it will never happen. Stop watching too many Hollywood movies[/b].





Okay now,
White South Africans took the lands from the Blacks over 100 years ago.
Presently, there are millions of White children who are innocent of this crime by their forefathers.
So we just grab the land from this innocent White generation and throw them out ? Really ?


Yes , they dispossessed innocent people till the early 90's of which many of them are still alive today. LMAO @innocent white children , sweety those children have enough money to buy your clan, it has been transferred from generation to generation . What about the innocent black child who has had nothing ? Should he continue being a farm hand like his father was?, what will be of his children ? Same cycle!. Btw, no one says little "Jaco"will not have land but he will no longer inherit land that should belong atleast to ten families. That is what this is all about, the disproportionate land ownership in the country.




It is not a question of Who is wrong or who is right
It is rather a question of What is wrong and What is right
Africa lands belongs to the Blacks, we know that, they know that, everyone knows that.
is not a question, everyone knows that.

Refer to my first paragraph.

But how do we get back our land without degenerating into their level of DOG EAT GOD
The answer is, we will get back our lands and then reasonably compensate this White descendants who know nothing about the crimes of their fathers.

Like that, we win, they win, everybody wins.



Lmfao, you sound like a dreamer. Martin Luther King Jr, is that you ? . Go check how well that dream is working in America and come back here. Most of the land thieves in South Africa are alive and kicking, we are not talking about Jan van riebieck theft here, we can never recover that one .

We don't have to live in a world of Zero-sum game where other people's misfortune will improve my fortune.
At least, let the world learn this from us.

jln115:

- Uhm:

Steinhoff scandal is 'clear mismanagement - corruption at its best' - IOL
The Steinhoff Debacle – the biggest fraud in SA history | Daily Maverick
Steinhoff CEO probed for corruption - eNCA
BLSA gravely concerned by corruption claims at Steinhoff, MultiChoice- EWN

"Mind you, I'm not talking about you specifically coz I don't know your take on this." I watched the very first ANN7 broadcasts a few years back and I Honestly thought it was one of those Comedy news shows like the Daily show........There were so many fails that I literally thought it had to be a joke, and i wasn't the only one, It was actually all over the news, regarding if ANN7 was a serious news channel or actually a comedy show, that's how bad their first few broadcasts were.....anyway after that didn't really bother to watch ANN7(or any news channel) anyway, I prefer to read the news! But have to say I did watch a tiny bit of ANN7 during the last 2 election, and it was decent.....What happens to ANN7 doesn't bother me in the slightest!!

"DA wrote that on their own website ,who reads that anyways" :I read it!! and so should you, before you claim the DA is anti land reform and what not!

"Why not partner with the usual " civil organizations" and stage a protest at the JSE calling for Joostes head ?" Because 1. they don't have to since he was fired immediately after and will most likely go to jail 2. He is already going to court 3. I also didn't see the ANC or even your BLF protesting at the JSE.

Can you maybe elaborate on which evergreen contracts you're talking about.....I know Eskom has one with Glencore, but niether Rupert or Oppenhiemer have any major stakes in Glencore.

Lionessza:




How I wish the likes of news24, citypress , Sundaytimes etc could make such front page for a month as they do when certain companies pocket 1.6 billion from the state .


Most of these news broadcasters are bad at first but they do get better so this was no exception. Anyway , I'm talking about the now . The fastest growing network in the country and it seems like the most watched lol. Since the likes of members of solidarity and Afriforum know everything that's being said there lol. The chanel has plenty of followers including the closet ones.


They wanted the land reform on their terms, 241 members of parliament have spoken and it's final.


When Brian Molefe was fired, they held a huge press conference assuring the nation that they will follow this closely, so I thought they would do more here since it's such a huge scandal. Blf and ANC usually let the law take its course so this no suprise.




"evergreen contracts" to supply coal to the entity, one of which ends in 2033.

The three companies include Anglo American, Exxaro and BHP.


Look that up. And that's only at Eskom mind you. Whether these two have a small interest or not ,.they are there. The king of privatization ( Mark Lamberti )their friend is there to represent their interests on that new board including the chairman of the board who is buddies with the Oppenheimers.

jln115:

Yes some assumptions made by certain members have been incorrect, not mine however with regards to land ownership ... I said the government is the single largest owner of land in SA this is a cold hard fact. Also the 7% unverified land is also state held land by law.

BTW me and patches posted the exact same sources you are quoting from earlier in this thread to support our arguments.

Afriform actually supports Land Redistribution you know!! and the largest owner of land in SA is......you guessed it the Government, which more than 2 thirds are unproductive!

The results of the survey done by the department of rural development and land reform, which were announced in Pretoria during a Cabinet briefing this morning, also show that, of the 113 million hectares of land in the country, 96 million hectares belong to organisations and public entities, while the rest is unknown.

This means that government only owns 14% of the land compared with 79% of land in private hands, while 7% could not be verified.

kikuyu1:
I've been going over land ownership stats and realise certain assumptions are incorrect. The gov't isn't the largest land owner. Also,interestingly it appears,if figures are true, black land ownership has risen steadily. As of 2013
https://www.news24.com/Archives/City-Press/Most-SA-land-is-in-private-hands-survey-20150430

Also it seems blacks have empowered themselves individually without gov't initiatives to buy farmland:
https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/who-owns-sas-land-20171028

The figure shows the provincial breakdown of black farm buys post 1994. Hmmmmm....

kikuyu1:


No. You said earlier:

The truth is here as I mentioned:
THE GOV'T THEREFORE ISN'T THE LARGEST LAND OWNER;NOT BY A LONG SHOT.

Jkay187:


If I were you from a south african point of view I would not use news24 as a source because in SA we've seen how anti gov that site has been including the fact that its owners are on the other side of the SA race line.

Until there's a proper independent audit on land ownership in SA there will be no consensus on the validity on such figures.

jln115:


- Don't read news24, since i consider it just as bad as ANN7, their articles are always full of factual errors and the journalists writing them have very little understanding of the subject they are writing about

Lionessza:




How I wish the likes of news24, citypress , Sundaytimes etc could make such front page for a month as they do when certain companies pocket 1.6 billion from the state .


Most of these news broadcasters are bad at first but they do get better so this was no exception. Anyway , I'm talking about the now . The fastest growing network in the country and it seems like the most watched lol. Since the likes of members of solidarity and Afriforum know everything that's being said there lol. The chanel has plenty of followers including the closet ones.


They wanted the land reform on their terms, 241 members of parliament have spoken and it's final.


When Brian Molefe was fired, they held a huge press conference assuring the nation that they will follow this closely, so I thought they would do more here since it's such a huge scandal. Blf and ANC usually let the law take its course so this no suprise.




"evergreen contracts" to supply coal to the entity, one of which ends in 2033.

The three companies include Anglo American, Exxaro and BHP.


Look that up. And that's only at Eskom mind you. Whether these two have a small interest or not ,.they are there. The king of privatization ( Mark Lamberti )their friend is there to represent their interests on that new board including the chairman of the board who is buddies with the Oppenheimers.

South Africa’s parliament withdrew an expropriation bill it passed in 2016 that allowed the state to make compulsory purchases of land to redress racial disparities in ownership, the ruling African National Congress (ANC) said on Tuesday.

kikuyu1:


Sweetie since the climb down which didn't surprise me,whats next?


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-safrica-land/south-africa-withdraws-land-expropriation-bill-passed-in-2016-idUSKCN1LD1O3

Jln115,where does this leave everyone? Will the status quo continue?