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Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? - Religion - Nairaland

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Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by OLAADEGBU(m): 4:24pm On Feb 23, 2018
Contradictions in the bible - A righteous lie?

Was Rahab praised for lying in James 2:25 when lying is forbidden in the Ten Commandments?

https://answersingenesis.org/contradictions-in-the-bible/a-righteous-lie/

Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by OLAADEGBU(m): 4:35pm On Feb 23, 2018
OLAADEGBU:


Contradictions in the bible - A righteous lie?


Was Rahab praised for lying in James 2:25 when lying is forbidden in the Ten Commandments?

https://answersingenesis.org/contradictions-in-the-bible/a-righteous-lie/

The context of this is Joshua 2:1–16, when the Israelites were spying out the land that the Lord has promised them. Rahab gave refuge to the spies, hid them, and sent their pursuers off in another direction while directing the Israelites elsewhere. During her discourse with the pursuers, she lied about where the men were. The passage reads:

"Now Joshua the son of Nun sent out two men from Acacia Grove to spy secretly, saying, "Go, view the land, especially Jericho." So they went, and came to the house of a harlot named Rahab, and lodged there. After she hid the spies, she sent them off" (Joshua 2:1).

"And she said to them, "Get to the mountain, lest the pursuers meet you. Hide there three days, until the pursuers have returned. Afterward you may go your way" (Joshua 2:16).

This was a different direction from where she sent the spies' pursuers. This is where the relevant passage in James 2 becomes important:

"Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?" (James 2:25).

Which leads to the question: Was Rahab praised for lying in James 2:25 when lying is forbidden in the Ten Commandments?
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by Seun(m): 5:57pm On Feb 23, 2018
OLAADEGBU:
Was Rahab praised for lying in James 2:25 when lying is forbidden in the Ten Commandments?
Is lying forbidden in the Ten Commandments? I don’t think so. Please provide the source. Thanks.

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Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by UnchangeableGod: 6:32pm On Feb 23, 2018
Seun:

Is lying forbidden in the Ten Commandments? I don’t think so. Please provide the source. Thanks.
"Thou shall not bear false witness" means thou shall not lie. Rahab was a sinner as at the time she saved the Isrseli spies. She was a harlot as at then. So a sinner just have to sin. The Bible did not praise Rahab for her sin of lying. Rather, the Scriptures only praised her faith in the God of Israel which made her to risk committing 'treason' in order to save God's ambassadors (although they were strangers) believing that she and her household would be rewarded and protected by the Israeli God. She had faith in God which she put into action. That is the point. There are things a believer can learn from unbelievers.

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Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by UnchangeableGod: 6:36pm On Feb 23, 2018
OLAADEGBU:


The context of this is Joshua 2:1–16, when the Israelites were spying out the land that the Lord has promised them. Rahab gave refuge to the spies, hid them, and sent their pursuers off in another direction while directing the Israelites elsewhere. During her discourse with the pursuers, she lied about where the men were. The passage reads:

"Now Joshua the son of Nun sent out two men from Acacia Grove to spy secretly, saying, "Go, view the land, especially Jericho." So they went, and came to the house of a harlot named Rahab, and lodged there. After she hid the spies, she sent them off" (Joshua 2:1).

"And she said to them, "Get to the mountain, lest the pursuers meet you. Hide there three days, until the pursuers have returned. Afterward you may go your way" (Joshua 2:16).

This was a different direction from where she sent the spies' pursuers. This is where the relevant passage in James 2 becomes important:

"Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?" (James 2:25).

Which leads to the question: Was Rahab praised for lying in James 2:25 when lying is forbidden in the Ten Commandments?
No sir. It was her faith in the God of Israel that was praised. Rahab was a sinner who exhibited saving faith which her family benefited from.

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Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by AlfaSeltzer(m): 6:39pm On Feb 23, 2018
All these biblical oloshos are not examples to be set for our young girls.

Get away from xtianity. Get away from foreign religion.
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by Seun(m): 7:10pm On Feb 23, 2018
UnchangeableGod:
"Thou shall not bear false witness" means thou shall not lie.
It means “you shall not give false testimony against your neighbour”, according to NIV. In other words, don’t falsely accuse your neighbor of a crime s/he didn’t commit. The Ten Commandments only forbid this specific type of lie. You can tell all sorts of lies without breaking any of the Ten Commandments.

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Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by UnchangeableGod: 7:23pm On Feb 23, 2018
Seun:
It means “you shall not give false testimony against your neighbour”, according to NIV. In other words, don’t falsely accuse your neighbor of a crime s/he didn’t commit. The Ten Commandments only forbid this specific type of lie. You can tell all sorts of lies without breaking any of the Ten Commandments.
Your statement is against the letter and spirit of the Scriptures. It is suggestive that God permits believers to lie other than bear false witness against neighbours. What then was the sin of Ananias snd Sapphira? Your statement is a clear fallacy and blasphemy. You can only preach that to your likes.

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Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by Seun(m): 8:40pm On Feb 23, 2018
UnchangeableGod:
Your statement is against the letter and spirit of the Scriptures. It is suggestive that God permits believers to lie other than bear false witness against neighbours.
No, it suggests that the Ten Commandments are not the timeless moral standard that they are made out to be. They were written for ancient Jews and not for modern Christians.

It says “don’t give false testimonies” instead of “don’t lie” because their entire legal system was based on testimonies. There was nothing like “forensic evidence”, “dna testing”, “checking alibis”, “defense attorneys” or “innocent until proven guilty”. If any two or three people (i.e. Jewish men) falsely accused you of murder, you would almost certainly be stoned to death.

If God existed, he would have taught them a thing or two about forensics because the commandment didn’t stop bad people from giving false testimonies. Modern research has shown that even honest testimonies are not very reliable because people often remember things incorrectly.

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Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by Jfrankination(m): 10:17pm On Feb 23, 2018
Seun:

No, it suggests that the Ten Commandments are not the timeless moral standard that they are made out to be. They were written for ancient Jews and not for modern Christians.

It says “don’t give false testimonies” instead of “don’t lie” because their entire legal system was based on testimonies. There was nothing like “forensic evidence”, “dna testing”, “checking alibis”, “defense attorneys” or “innocent until proven guilty”. If any two or three people (i.e. Jewish men) falsely accused you of murder, you would almost certainly be stoned to death.

If God existed, he would have taught them a thing or two about forensics because the commandment didn’t stop bad people from giving false testimonies. Modern research has shown that even honest testimonies are not very reliable because people often remember things incorrectly.
this guy sev, we sabi say u be Atheist, e don do nah u too dey disturb, u can't change the mindset of believers to see things in ur own perspective.
i didn't even read ur long epistle

2 Likes

Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by OLAADEGBU(m): 11:50am On Feb 24, 2018
Seun:


Is lying forbidden in the Ten Commandments? I don’t think so. Please provide the source. Thanks.

How many lies have you told in your entire life? undecided

Below is a check list of the Ten Commandments you alluded to. You can ask yourself whether lying is forbidden or not:

Have I always loved God my Creator with all my heart, mind, soul and strength?  ____YES  ___NO 
Have I made a god in my own image? a god to suit myself?  ____YES  ___NO 
Have I ever used God's name in vain?   ____YES  ___NO
Have I kept the Sabbath holy?  ____YES  ___NO 
Have I always honoured my parents implicitly?  ____YES  ___NO 
Have I murdered (God considers hatred as murder)?  ____YES  ___NO 
Have I committed adultery (including premarital sex and lust)?  ____YES  ___NO 
Have I stolen (the value is irrelevant)?  ____YES  ___NO 
Have I lied (including fibs and these questions)?  ____YES  ___NO 
Have I coveted (been greedy or materialistic)?  ____YES  ___NO 

If you have even broken one Law, then you have sinned against God and therefore will "surely die," for the "wages of sin is death."  (Death is the separation from God, either temporary or permanently)

We are all guilty of breaking the Commandments.  Listen to the voice of your conscience, and let it remind you of some of the sins of the past.  We are not perfect as we are commanded to be (Matthew 5:48), neither is our heart pure.  On Judgment Day our transgressions will be the evidence of our shame.  Think of it: God has seen every sin we have ever committed.  We share our thought-life with Him.

We are guilty of violating His Law a multitude of times, yet if we repent, God can forgive us because Jesus stepped into the courtroom 2,000 years ago and paid the fine for us.  His death on the cross satisfied the Law we so blatantly transgressed, and at the same time demonstrated how much God loves us—

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." 

His shed blood on the cross can make you clean in the sight of a holy God, as though you have never sinned.

God doesn't want you to go to Hell.  Please, forget your arguments, repent and put your trust in Jesus and be saved from God's wrath.  Make Psalm 51 your prayer, then read your Bible daily and always obey what you read; God will never let you down.

Source: www.NeedGod.com

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Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by galaciousbabe(f): 7:08pm On Feb 24, 2018
Seun:
It means “you shall not give false testimony against your neighbour”, according to NIV. In other words, don’t falsely accuse your neighbor of a crime s/he didn’t commit. The Ten Commandments only forbid this specific type of lie. You can tell all sorts of lies without breaking any of the Ten Commandms.
I disagree....
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:35am On Feb 25, 2018
UnchangeableGod:


"Thou shall not bear false witness" means thou shall not lie. Rahab was a sinner as at the time she saved the Isrseli spies. She was a harlot as at then. So a sinner just have to sin. The Bible did not praise Rahab for her sin of lying. Rather, the Scriptures only praised her faith in the God of Israel which made her to risk committing 'treason' in order to save God's ambassadors (although they were strangers) believing that she and her household would be rewarded and protected by the Israeli God. She had faith in God which she put into action. That is the point. There are things a believer can learn from unbelievers.

Way to go! God bless you. smiley

1 Like

Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by Nobody: 5:39am On Feb 25, 2018
OLAADEGBU:

Ithem[/color], "[a
Rehab was commended not because she lied but because she hide the spies and sent them away,that is why she was justify by work not by the word of her mouth or confession
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by johnw74: 5:46am On Feb 25, 2018
the commandment only mentioned lying against other people
but other Bible verses show that all lies are bad:

Pro_12:22 Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.

Pro_19:9 A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish.

Rev_21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev_22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.



God cannot lie, ... satan is the father of lies



God cannot lie:
Tit_1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Heb_6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:




satan is the father of lies:
Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

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Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by johnw74: 5:56am On Feb 25, 2018
profolaolu:
Rehab was commended not because she lied but because she hide the spies and sent them away,that is why she was justify by work not by the word of her mouth or confession

yes rahab was justified for her works because her works showed her faith
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by Samsimple(m): 7:07am On Feb 25, 2018
lie na lie which one is righteous lie abeg... that is how some terrorist will kill people all in the name of one f@%king 72 virgins trash and they call it holy killing...

There are no virgins in this world anymore cuz every one has been f@#ked up by the world...

Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by Nobody: 7:29am On Feb 25, 2018
I can't say... but some lies are harmless.
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by orisa37: 10:07am On Feb 25, 2018
No Righteousness is a Lie.
Faith is a Product of The Soul.
And Soul is The Horse(Work) of The Spirit.
Rahab had Faith, sufficient work to become an Apostle and she was blessed like The Repentant Thief.
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by Uyi168: 10:20am On Feb 25, 2018
skillful01:
I can't say... but some lies are harmless.
Does being harmless rather it less a lie?
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by DeSepiero(m): 10:32am On Feb 25, 2018
johnw74:


the commandment only mentioned lying against other people
but other Bible verses show that all lies are bad:

Pro_12:22 Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.

Pro_19:9 A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish.

Rev_21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev_22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.



God cannot lie, ... satan is the father of lies



God cannot lie:
Tit_1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Heb_6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:




satan is the father of lies:
Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


The bible verses you quoted are apparently the opinions of King Solomon, John and Apostle Paul.

Why do you think Satan is father of lies? Because John 8:44 suggests so? How did Satan lie in the beginning because I'm not sure he did.
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by awesomeJ(m): 1:24pm On Feb 25, 2018
Seun:


If God existed, he would have taught them a thing or two about forensics because the commandment didn’t stop bad people from giving false testimonies. Modern research has shown that even honest testimonies are not very reliable because people often remember things incorrectly.

Mr Seun, would you consider this thought?
"If contrary to my position, God existed, wouldn't my intellect on the scale of His be so infinitesimal, that it would only spell an utter embarrassment to His personality, and a pride on my part to think that I could be the one who knows better as to instruct him on the best way to administer justice?"

Forensics, you pointed that out as something that would have helped to avert a case of people bearing false testimonies out of their wickedness right?

You have to recognize here that the real problem you're trying to guard against is a man's wickedness against his neighbour, and merely ruling out the testimony option doesn't fix that.

As you probably know, there are several other instances recorded in the scriptures where people have plotted evil against other men, without having to resort to the use of false testimonies. Haman against Mordecai, Absalom against David, etc.

So, even if God had decided to work with the available technology of those times, to establish forensics, it's certain it wouldn't have fixed the root cause of the abuse of the testimony concept-which is the evil nature of the hearts of men.

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Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by awesomeJ(m): 1:42pm On Feb 25, 2018
Regarding the topic.
The scriptures did not say that rahab was justified for her lies, it was for her efforts at saving the spies that she was justified. The means she used was not praised, but the act of saving those folks was what was praised.
If Rahab was to be a modern day Christian, she would have been rebuked for telling a lie, however she would have been commended for taking a bold step at saving the lives of the spies, and encouraged to seek ways that do not violate God's standards, should she have to handle similar situations in the future.

For a better perspective,
Let's say your only child is in a state of emergency, and needs an urgent surgery that'll cost 25m, which you do not have. Now, you meet a senator who offers to pay the 25m with funds that may have been looted.

Some one may thereafter commend the senator, but it wouldn't be his looting, they'd be commending, it would be his effort at saving your only child.
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by Seun(m): 2:47pm On Feb 25, 2018
awesomeJ:
Regarding the topic.
The scriptures did not say that rahab was justified for her lies, it was for her efforts at saving the spies that she was justified. The means she used was not praised, but the act of saving those folks was what was praised.
How did the spies do their jobs without lying? Surely if someone asked them, “who are you?” they would not have replied, “we are spies; LOL!”

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Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by Desyner: 4:05pm On Feb 25, 2018
Seun:

Is lying forbidden in the Ten Commandments? I don’t think so. Please provide the source. Thanks.
Lying is forbidden but I can't see how Rahab was praised for lying here.
She was justified for accomodating the messengers and not misleading the pursuers. Correct me if I am wrong.
Cc: olaadegbu.
In Exodus 1:16-20, when the midwives decieved the King of Egypt regarding the Isrealites' first born they were actually suppose to be killing, in verse 21 "because they feared God", in verses 20 God dealt well with the midwives.
The motive of deception was key in those context. Rahab was already an harlot. God had been using the heart even in the old testament to judge deeds. It isn't a new testament phenomenon.
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by Desyner: 4:22pm On Feb 25, 2018
Seun:
It means “you shall not give false testimony against your neighbour”, according to NIV. In other words, don’t falsely accuse your neighbor of a crime s/he didn’t commit. The Ten Commandments only forbid this specific type of lie. You can tell all sorts of lies without breaking any of the Ten Commandments.
Who is your neighbour ? The man whose house is next to yours or the man standing next to you ? The heart holds the ultimate motive for telling a lie.
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by awesomeJ(m): 4:44pm On Feb 25, 2018
Seun:

How did the spies do their jobs without lying? Surely if someone asked them, “who are you?” they would not have replied, “we are spies; LOL!”
I never said the spies were saints. They most likely told lies at several instances, just as they likely indulged in other sins. Have you ever read the part where Apostle Paul mentioned that not even one man could fulfil the requirements of the law thereby attaining righteousness?

The point I tried making is that as much as the Bible spelt out errors on people's parts, it never approved such errors or commended people for them.

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Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by Seun(m): 5:34pm On Feb 25, 2018
Desyner:
Who is your neighbour ? The man whose house is next to yours or the man standing next to you?
"Neighbour" in the old testament usually means a fellow Jew who worships the same God. That's why the same God that said "love your neighbour as yourself" also led Joshua to kill all the babies in Jericho, a city that never attacked the Israelites. An unprovoked genocide.
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by awesomeJ(m): 6:40pm On Feb 25, 2018
Seun:

"Neighbour" in the old testament usually means a fellow Jew who worships the same God. That's why the same God that said "love your neighbour as yourself" also asked Joshua to kill all the babies in Jericho, a city that never attacked the Israelites. An unprovoked genocide.
Well, if you take such a perspective of the scenario, it'd seem that YAHWEH was being wicked, and you would have done better if things were up to you.

But the fact is, that's an utterly wrong perspective you're having of Him. If He were as wicked as you're trying to portray Him to be? Why would our acts as Christians be anything short of wickedness? as that would be the only way we'd be able to serve a please a supposedly wicked god right?

The killings at Jericho was a punishment for the sins the people in it had committed at the time. So it was with the Sodomites, Amalekites, the entire world during the days of Noah, and so it will be with the entire world at the return of Christ.
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by UnchangeableGod: 8:54pm On Feb 25, 2018
OLAADEGBU:


Way to go! God bless you. smiley
Amen. Same to you and other lovers of truth, godliness and right living.

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Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by UnchangeableGod: 9:26pm On Feb 25, 2018
Seun:

No, it suggests that the Ten Commandments are not the timeless moral standard that they are made out to be. They were written for ancient Jews and not for modern Christians.

It says “don’t give false testimonies” instead of “don’t lie” because their entire legal system was based on testimonies. There was nothing like “forensic evidence”, “dna testing”, “checking alibis”, “defense attorneys” or “innocent until proven guilty”. If any two or three people (i.e. Jewish men) falsely accused you of murder, you would almost certainly be stoned to death.

If God existed, he would have taught them a thing or two about forensics because the commandment didn’t stop bad people from giving false testimonies. Modern research has shown that even honest testimonies are not very reliable because people often remember things incorrectly.
You made a very valid point but 'spoilt it' with your "if God existed" phrase. If God does not exist, I would have remained a thief, a proud fellow, a fornicator etc. by now. It was only God that could have saved and changed my life in the early hours of Thursday, the 18th day of November, 1999. It is only God that could have healed me of ulcer, ear ache, pile, typhoid and upper respiratory tract infection completely without medical treatment. God exists. May He save you too before you die I J N, Amen.

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Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by ichuka(m): 10:51pm On Feb 25, 2018
A lie is a lie.just as white,blue and black witches are same

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