OkCornel:


Read your Bible and tell me when death came into the picture...

Genesis 2 v 17;

17 But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt die the death.

I would say that death came in here:

22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

We can see that the cause of death was No access to the tree of life. Remember they could eat of every tree apart from the tree of g and e. So they were most likely also eating of the tree of life and enjoying enduring life.
Until they were cut off from that tree, then they became susceptible to death.

OkCornel:


Read your bible again the answer to your question is in there;

Genesis 3 v 22

22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. And now lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever,

Wake up, dude!! It was a rhetorical question. I was pointing you to the cause of death according to the bible.

PastorAIO:


Wake up, dude!! It was a rhetorical question. I was pointing you to the cause of death according to the bible.

I'd refer you back to the word of God Himself in Genesis 2 v 17; it is self explanatory;

17 But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt die the death.

Death came into the picture because man ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil...

Had they eaten from the tree of life first...before eating the tree of knowledge of good and evil, then it will be a different scenario altogether...

OkCornel:


I'd refer you back to the word of God Himself in Genesis 2 v 17; it is self explanatory;

17 But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt die the death.

Death came into the picture because man ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil...

Had they eaten from the tree of life first...before eating the tree of knowledge of good and evil, then it will be a different scenario altogether...

You are mistaking Death for Threat-of-death.

Death was threatened in verse 17 chapt 2. Death couldn't occur until they were banned from the Tree of Life.

Question: Could Adam and Eve have continued living after eating of the Tree of G and E? Answer: Yes, if they continued to eat of the tree of life.

You cannot say that they never ate of the Tree of Life because we know that they were allowed access to all of the trees except the Tree of G and E.


Bottom line, the cause of eventual death was deprivation of the fruits of the Tree of Life.

If I tell you not to touch my apple or I will bruise you, and then you go and touch my apple and subsequently I kick the living daylights out of you, What would you say was the cause of your bruising? The apple you touched or the ass kicking i gave you?

PastorAIO:


You are mistaking Death for Threat-of-death.

Death was threatened in verse 17 chapt 2. Death couldn't occur until they were banned from the Tree of Life.

Question: Could Adam and Eve have continued living after eating of the Tree of G and E? Answer: Yes, if they continued to eat of the tree of life.

You cannot say that they never ate of the Tree of Life because we know that they were allowed access to all of the trees except the Tree of G and E.


Bottom line, the cause of eventual death was deprivation of the fruits of the Tree of Life.

If I tell you not to touch my apple or I will bruise you, and then you go and touch my apple and subsequently I kick the living daylights out of you, What would you say was the cause of your bruising? The apple you touched or the ass kicking i gave you?

The apple I touched led to cascading events which led to you whooping me...

If I didn't touch your apple...then there'll be no ass whooping...

OkCornel:


The apple I touched led to cascading events which led to you whooping me...

If I didn't touch your apple...then there'll be no ass whooping...

So the Death was not an inevitable conclusion of eating of the tree of g and e. It required a contrivance by Elohim in order to bring the death about.

Now did the serpent lie by saying that death was not a certain consequence of eating of the Tree of g and e?

PastorAIO:


So the Death was not an inevitable conclusion of eating of the tree of g and e. It required a contrivance by Elohim in order to bring the death about.

Now did the serpent lie by saying that death was not a certain consequence of eating of the Tree of g and e?

The serpent said, you shall not die if you eat of this tree...

Yes the serpent lied. If the Serpent had told Eve to eat of the tree of life first...before eating the tree of knowledge of good and evil....

then it's a different ball game altogether...

OkCornel:


The serpent said, you shall not die if you eat of this tree...

Yes the serpent lied. If the Serpent had told Eve to eat of the tree of life first...before eating the tree of knowledge of good and evil....

then it's a different ball game altogether...

The serpent did NOT say 'you shall not die'.

The serpent said ' you shall not SURELY die'. That is a different sentence altogether with a different meaning altogether.

I addressed it when you brought up the Geneva bible. I asked you why you felt the Geneva bible was more accurate, but it seems that you did not see that post. Geneva bible being older than KJV does not make it more accurate. They both translated from the original Hebrew and the original hebrew uses the word Mo-wt which in hebrew means SURELY.

How come the word SURELY is missing in your Geneva translation?

Please if you doubt what I'm saying about the original hebrew you can look it up here:
http://biblehub.com/text/genesis/3-4.htm


btw, how are you so sure that the couple were not eating of the fruits of the Tree of Life already?

OLAADEGBU:


Someone had to resign from her political post in the U.S. for telling white lies. Can that happen in our Obodo country?

Lol
The truth is bitter.

PastorAIO:


The serpent did NOT say 'you shall not die'.

The serpent said ' you shall not SURELY die'. That is a different sentence altogether with a different meaning altogether.

I addressed it when you brought up the Geneva bible. I asked you why you felt the Geneva bible was more accurate, but it seems that you did not see that post. Geneva bible being older than KJV does not make it more accurate. They both translated from the original Hebrew and the original hebrew uses the word Mo-wt which in hebrew means SURELY.

How come the word SURELY is missing in your Geneva translation?

Please if you doubt what I'm saying about the original hebrew you can look it up here:
http://biblehub.com/text/genesis/3-4.htm


btw, how are you so sure that the couple were not eating of the fruits of the Tree of Life already?

So tell me...what difference does the word "surely" make...in the context of this discussion...

Then go further to explain how this validates what happened to man after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil after that...

Did they die? yes or no

PastorAIO:


The serpent did NOT say 'you shall not die'.

The serpent said ' you shall not SURELY die'. That is a different sentence altogether with a different meaning altogether.

Gen_2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen_3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die



but then along comes the twisters of truth who hate God and His word
and change what He says

if satan meant: "it's not for sure that you will die"
then did God mean: "thou shalt surely die, but I'm not sure"

duh
have a swift journey:
Rev_20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


God said:
"thou shalt surely die"

satan said the opposite to God:
"Ye shall not surely die"


how they love to try and make God out to be a liar

johnw74:





Gen_2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen_3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die



but then along comes the twisters of truth who hate God and His word
and change what He says

if satan meant: "it's not for sure that you will die"
then did God mean: "thou shalt surely die, but I'm not sure"

duh
have a swift journey:
Rev_20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


God said:
"thou shalt surely die"

satan said the opposite to God:
"Ye shall not surely die"


how they love to try and make God out to be a liar

The serpent said that as a statistical case it is not sure that you will die.

God didn't say that he wasn't sure, I don't know where you got that from. He said that they will Surely Die. I don't see what's been twisted there.

Death was no consequence of eating the tree of g and e. It was a consequence of being deprived of the tree of life.

These are the facts. If you're not comfortable with the implications that does not affect the facts in any way.

OkCornel:


So tell me...what difference does the word "surely" make...in the context of this discussion...

Then go further to explain how this validates what happened to man after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil after that...

Did they die? yes or no

I see that you are struggling to appreciate the significance of the word 'surely'.

Surely means 100% definite occurrence.

Not Surely means less than 100% likelihood.

'The day you eat thereof ye shall surely die ' means that 100% certainty that before the day is over you will be dead.


After eating from the fruit of the tree Adam and Eve did NOT die.

They eventually died because they were deprived of the fruit of the tree of life.

PastorAIO:



I see that you are struggling to appreciate the significance of the word 'surely'.

Surely means 100% definite occurrence.

Not Surely means less than 100% likelihood.

'The day you eat thereof ye shall surely die ' means that 100% certainty that before the day is over you will be dead.


After eating from the fruit of the tree Adam and Eve did NOT die.

They eventually died because they were deprived of the fruit of the tree of life.

So why didn't the crafty serpent tell them to eat from the fruit of the tree of life?


God said something, and the serpent said the direct opposite...why didn't the serpent tell them to eat from the tree of life as well?

If the serpent had man's best interest at heart, what stopped it from telling man to eat from the tree of life before God came down to discuss with Adam much later in the day?

johnw74:
Gen_2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen_3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die

but then along comes the twisters of truth who hate God and His word
and change what He says

if satan meant: "it's not for sure that you will die"
then did God mean: "thou shalt surely die, but I'm not sure"

duh
have a swift journey:
Rev_20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

God said:
"thou shalt surely die"

satan said the opposite to God:
"Ye shall not surely die"

how they love to try and make God out to be a liar

PastorAIO:
The serpent said that as a statistical case it is not sure that you will die.

God didn't say that he wasn't sure, I don't know where you got that from. He said that they will Surely Die. I don't see what's been twisted there.

Death was no consequence of eating the tree of g and e.
It was a consequence of being deprived of the tree of life.

These are the facts. If you're not comfortable with the implications that does not affect the facts in any way.

Death was no consequence of eating the tree of g and e? Really?
SMH. Facepalm. Tsk.
This is what happens when someone doesnt first, look, before leap jumping into a rabbit hole

OkCornel:
So tell me...what difference does the word "surely" make...in the context of this discussion...

Then go further to explain how this validates what happened to man after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil after that...

Did they die?
yes or no

PastorAIO:
I see that you are struggling to appreciate the significance of the word 'surely'.

Surely means 100% definite occurrence.

Not Surely means less than 100% likelihood.

'The day you eat thereof ye shall surely die ' means that 100% certainty that before the day is over you will be dead.

After eating from the fruit of the tree Adam and Eve did NOT die.

They eventually died because they were deprived of the fruit of the tree of life.

¹⁶The LORD God commanded the man, saying,
"From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
¹⁷but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat,
for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."
- Genesis 2:16-17

The serpent said to the woman,
"You surely will not die!
- Genesis 3:4

"you will surely die" in the Genesis 2:17 verse, means, God will make it His business to see and make sure that you die
"you surely will not die" in the Genesis 3:4 verse, means, God will NOT make it His business to see and make sure that you die

Now, after the deed's done, the dust's settled and looking at Genesis 3:22-24, who told the truth, who told a lie?

OkCornel:


So why didn't the crafty serpent tell them to eat from the fruit of the tree of life?

I have no idea. How are you sure that they were not eating from the tree of life already?

God said something, and the serpent said the direct opposite...why didn't the serpent tell them to eat from the tree of life as well?

Again. I have no idea. I am not the serpent.
The same way you got the story by reading is how I got the story too.

If the serpent had man's best interest at heart, what stopped it from telling man to eat from the tree of life before God came down to discuss with Adam much later in the day?

Again, I can't help you.

You will not surely die.

This is very different from:
Surely you will not die.

The original hebrew says you will not-surely die.

PastorAIO:
You will not surely die.

This is very different from:
Surely you will not die.

The original hebrew says you will not-surely die.

¹⁶The LORD God commanded the man, saying,
"From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
¹⁷but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat,
for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."
- Genesis 2:16-17

The serpent said to the woman,
"You surely will not die!
- Genesis 3:4

"you will surely die" in the Genesis 2:17 verse, means, God will make it His business to see and make sure that you die
"you surely will not die" in the Genesis 3:4 verse, means, God will NOT make it His business to see and make sure that you die

"not-surely die" means, without any doubt, you wont die.
It's either the serpent wasnt sure of the facts and truth or the serpent is telling a lie

Now, after the deed's done, the dust's settled and looking at Genesis 3:22-24, who told the truth, who told a lie?

PastorAIO:


The serpent said that as a statistical case it is not sure that you will die.

God didn't say that he wasn't sure, I don't know where you got that from. He said that they will Surely Die. I don't see what's been twisted there.

Death was no consequence of eating the tree of g and e. It was a consequence of being deprived of the tree of life.

These are the facts. If you're not comfortable with the implications that does not affect the facts in any way.

you have been blinded, is the cause of that confusion:

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

satan didn't say "it is not sure that you will die"
satan said "Ye shall not surely die",
which is the opposite to which God said "thou shalt surely die"

PastorAIO:



I see that you are struggling to appreciate the significance of the word 'surely'.

Surely means 100% definite occurrence.

Not Surely means less than 100% likelihood.

'The day you eat thereof ye shall surely die ' means that 100% certainty that before the day is over you will be dead.


After eating from the fruit of the tree Adam and Eve did NOT die.

They eventually died because they were deprived of the fruit of the tree of life.

After eating from the fruit of the tree Adam and Eve did spiritually die and were banished from the garden

johnw74:


After eating from the fruit of the tree Adam and Eve did spiritually die and were banished from the garden

This is extra biblical. Nowhere does it talk if spiritual death. Spirit is life.

No.

johnw74:


you have been blinded, is the cause of that confusion:

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

satan didn't say "it is not sure that you will die"
satan said "Ye shall not surely die",
which is the opposite to which God said "thou shalt surely die"

That is a dangerous road you're on when anyone that doesn't agree with you is blinded by Satan.

Anyway, whether or not Serpent said this and god said that, the fact remains that in that day nobody died.
Short of inventing some kind of spiritual death, which I'm sure you can't explain, nobody died that day as claimed.

PastorAIO:


This is extra biblical. Nowhere does it talk if spiritual death. Spirit is life.

duh, adam and eve disobeyed God, so they spiritually died that day
they didn't physically die that day, and God doesn't lie, they died spiritually that day

also read this from got questions:

Question: "What does it mean to be spiritually dead?"

Answer: To be spiritually dead is to be separated from God. When Adam sinned in Genesis 3:6, he ushered in death for all humanity. God’s command to Adam and Eve was that they could not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It came with the warning that disobedience would result in death: “And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, ‘You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.’
This signifies a continuous state of death that began with spiritual death, continues throughout life as a gradual degradation of the body, and culminates in physical death. The immediate spiritual death resulted in Adam’s separation from God. His act of hiding from God (Genesis 3:8] demonstrates this separation, as does his attempt to shift blame for the sin to the woman (Genesis 3:12).

Unfortunately, this spiritual – and eventual physical – death was not confined to Adam and Eve. As the representative of the human race, Adam carried all of humanity into his sin. Paul makes this clear in Romans 5:12, telling us that sin and death entered the world and spread to all men through Adam’s sin. Additionally, Romans 6:23 says that the wages of sin is death; sinners must die, because sin separates us from God. Any separation from the Source of Life is, naturally, death for us.

But it is not just inherited sin that causes spiritual death; our own sinfulness contributes. Ephesians 2 teaches that, before salvation, we are “dead” in trespasses and sins (verse 1). This must speak of spiritual death, because we were still “alive” physically before salvation. While we were in that spiritually “dead” condition, God saved us (verse 5; see also Romans 5:8]. Colossians 2:13 reiterates this truth: “And you, who were dead in your trespasses . . . God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses.”

Since we are dead in sin, we are completely unable to trust God or His Word. Jesus repeatedly claims that we are powerless without Him (John 15:5) and that we cannot come to Him without God’s enabling (John 6:44). Paul teaches in Romans 8 that our natural minds cannot submit to God, nor please Him (verses 7-8]. In our fallen state, we are incapable of even understanding the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14).

The act of God whereby He makes us alive from spiritual death is called regeneration. Regeneration is accomplished only by the Holy Spirit, through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. When we are regenerated, we are made alive together with Christ (Ephesians 2:5) and renewed by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5). It is like being born a second time, as Jesus taught Nicodemus in John 3:3, 7. Having been made alive by God, we will never truly die – we have eternal life. Jesus said often that to believe in Him is to have eternal life (John 3:16, 36; 17:3).

Sin leads to death. The only way to escape that death is to come to Jesus through faith, drawn by the Holy Spirit. Faith in Christ leads to spiritual life, and ultimately to eternal life.

PastorAIO:


That is a dangerous road you're on when anyone that doesn't agree with you is blinded by Satan.

Anyway, whether or not Serpent said this and god said that, the fact remains that in that day nobody died.
Short of inventing some kind of spiritual death, which I'm sure you can't explain, nobody died that day as claimed.

you are blinded by satan because you don't agree with and change God's word:

PastorAIO:
The serpent said that as a statistical case it is not sure that you will die.

PastorAIO:


This is extra biblical. Nowhere does it talk if spiritual death. Spirit is life.

Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

^^^ the body is not physically dead because of sin, but spiritually dead because of sin,
just as adam and eve became spiritually dead the day they sinned.
with those that have Christ in them, the spirit is life

PastorAIO:
You will not surely die.

This is very different from:
Surely you will not die.

The original hebrew says you will not-surely die.

duh, oh twister of words and twister of God's word

God:"thou shalt surely die"

satan:"Ye shall not surely die"

satan said the exact opposite to God, oh blinded one, but twist away to get another meaning

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

when the plain sense of God's word is common sense, seek no other sense

PastorAIO:
However everything the serpent said about the tree of good and evil was true while what Elohim said about it was false.

who are you trying to fool with the pastor monika

believing satan and not God you are surely lost:

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

(2Co 11:13) For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
(2Co 11:14) And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
(2Co 11:15) Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
vvv

Rev_20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

All this long thing and all for only me.

There is an easy way to show all your long words for the nonsense that they are.

if upon all the so called spiritual death that you've manufactured Adam and Eve continued to eat from the tree of life, would they die? Or not?



If they would continue to live, as god said they would in the story, then where does that leave your so called spiritual death?

johnw74:



duh, adam and eve disobeyed God, so they spiritually died that day
they didn't physically die that day, and God doesn't lie, they died spiritually that day

also read this from got questions:

Question: "What does it mean to be spiritually dead?"

Answer: To be spiritually dead is to be separated from God. When Adam sinned in Genesis 3:6, he ushered in death for all humanity. God’s command to Adam and Eve was that they could not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It came with the warning that disobedience would result in death: “And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, ‘You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.’
This signifies a continuous state of death that began with spiritual death, continues throughout life as a gradual degradation of the body, and culminates in physical death. The immediate spiritual death resulted in Adam’s separation from God. His act of hiding from God (Genesis 3:8] demonstrates this separation, as does his attempt to shift blame for the sin to the woman (Genesis 3:12).

Unfortunately, this spiritual – and eventual physical – death was not confined to Adam and Eve. As the representative of the human race, Adam carried all of humanity into his sin. Paul makes this clear in Romans 5:12, telling us that sin and death entered the world and spread to all men through Adam’s sin. Additionally, Romans 6:23 says that the wages of sin is death; sinners must die, because sin separates us from God. Any separation from the Source of Life is, naturally, death for us.

But it is not just inherited sin that causes spiritual death; our own sinfulness contributes. Ephesians 2 teaches that, before salvation, we are “dead” in trespasses and sins (verse 1). This must speak of spiritual death, because we were still “alive” physically before salvation. While we were in that spiritually “dead” condition, God saved us (verse 5; see also Romans 5:8]. Colossians 2:13 reiterates this truth: “And you, who were dead in your trespasses . . . God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses.”

Since we are dead in sin, we are completely unable to trust God or His Word. Jesus repeatedly claims that we are powerless without Him (John 15:5) and that we cannot come to Him without God’s enabling (John 6:44). Paul teaches in Romans 8 that our natural minds cannot submit to God, nor please Him (verses 7-8]. In our fallen state, we are incapable of even understanding the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14).

The act of God whereby He makes us alive from spiritual death is called regeneration. Regeneration is accomplished only by the Holy Spirit, through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. When we are regenerated, we are made alive together with Christ (Ephesians 2:5) and renewed by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5). It is like being born a second time, as Jesus taught Nicodemus in John 3:3, 7. Having been made alive by God, we will never truly die – we have eternal life. Jesus said often that to believe in Him is to have eternal life (John 3:16, 36; 17:3).

Sin leads to death. The only way to escape that death is to come to Jesus through faith, drawn by the Holy Spirit. Faith in Christ leads to spiritual life, and ultimately to eternal life.

johnw74:



duh, oh twister of words and twister of God's word

God:"thou shalt surely die"

satan:"Ye shall not surely die"

satan said the exact opposite to God, oh blinded one, but twist away to get another meaning

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Try to understand the conversation you're jumping into before you comment.

johnw74:



Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

^^^ the body is not physically dead because of sin, but spiritually dead because of sin,
just as adam and eve became spiritually dead the day they sinned.
with those that have Christ in them, the spirit is life

Body is body. Spirit is spirit.

It is stupid to talk of bodies bring spiritually dead. But not physically dead.

Can spirits be physically dead? Or is it only bodies that can be spiritually dead but it doesn't work the other way.

What do you understand by the difference between flesh and spirit?