Okay friends, let me humbly present the response i got when i asked the Holy Spirit, Why He said we should abstain from sex during fasting as couples.

He first began by asking me to define FASTING, i gave him the same defination and explanation Ubenedictus gave here. He said, that's how humans view it, but that's not all of it.

He said, Fasting doesn't mean absitnence, it means TO FASTEN SOMETHING TOGETHER. It means to tie two together. It means to melt, to fuse, to bind, to glue, to unite tow together. With a purpose.

He said, when we Fast, we FASTEN our spirits to His. We become one with Him by melting, fusing, and uniting into Him as one, with the intent of drawing from Him, something we need in the physical world. Something which does not yet exist in the material realm and make it exist.

Prayer is calling those things out with our mouths.

Abraham calleth things that be not as though they were, and they became.

He said, Sex or love making is the same thing. When a man have Sex with his wife, or anyone else, they melt, fuse into each other with the intent of drawing from God a New Life which does not exist yet into existence.

He reffered me to Genesis 2:24 which says

And a man shall leave his mother and father and join himself to his wife and they both shall become one . It was at thia point i got a deeper understaning of this verse.

He said, the reason for which He asked a man to stay away from melting into his wife while melting into Him is that, a man can not melt into God and be melting into his wife at the same time..

When a man and his wife agrees for instance to go to Him in Fasting and prayer asking for a Child or anything else, both of them stand as individuals, separately standing before Him. They melts individually into Him, not as a couple. They may have the same motive, but they are different distinct entities possessing single units of Spirits, and it is with this Spirits they Fasten or fuse into Him. Hence, THEY CAN NOT FUSE INTO GOD AND FUSE INTO each OTHER at the same Time.
Here is the reason for abstinence. It has nothing to do with taming the flesh to boost the Spirit.

Sex tie souls or Spirits together. It is a highly Spieitual exerxise. Unbelievers do it too to draw from their master what they needs.

Someone mentioned People of other faiths, we shd remember that if there's fake it's becos there exists the original.

Unbelievers don't Fast, at least not to Jesus.

Salom.
Cc: Sarassin. Butterflylion Muttleylaff, mujtahida, Ubenedictus, Ronpet777.

Mujtahida:


[quote author=Mujtahida post=65409868]
How do you know he spoke the mind of God? Just because he said so and not even personally to you but generally in a book? Well you are entitled to your beliefs.

I believe because this is not the first time i have asked and receive answers that i have never heard from anyone before.

Mujtahida:

As for me if God has something to tell me, if he wants something as intimate as my heart, if he has commands and instructions for my life, he claims to be my father then let him speak to me. I can't live by what is written in a book. Shebi he's called a living God, all wise, all powerful, everywhere present. So he should speak for himself. What if man had not invented books? How did God speak to men in the thousands of years before writing was invented? And it wasn't even the Jews who invented writing.

Hahahahahahahhaa. When you said you had been a Christian for years, you performed all thise feats in his name, how did you do it? Did He speak to you face to face believe and win souls and perform the miracles you did? How was he communicating with you? Did you lie that you were a Christian? Did you ever had a relationship with Him? I doubt it very much.

Okay sir, wait, he wi soeak with you enh.

Mujtahida:


I consider all religious books purporting to be the word of God as the rankest fraudulent documents in this world.
If God ever wrote a book then that book is the book of nature. The Bible and any other religious texts are nothing but the contrivance of men!

Sir, this is not about religious books. Pls look for a thread about it and take your consideration there. Thanks.

Mujtahida:

You are now asking whether sex in marriage is carnal (as your friend said) probably because Paul wrote about sexual abstention during Fasting. So what if Paul had not written it? Whenmany kiss their wives or husbands and go intimate with their spouse does it feel carnal? Their whole body tells them this is sweet but for many religious type of people whose mind has been corrupted by concepts such as holiness, carnality, sin, they never enjoy sex because while at it their hearts are filled with guilt, filled with notions about how to engage in sex in a 'godly way'. Nonsense. Nature is nature and she will triumph over the artificial dictates of a book!

Hahahahahahahaha. Only those who do not know that sex is a beautiful instituted by God will be doing it in guilt. And, you lie to say sex in marriage enenders guilt. That's completley not true.

Only when sex is doen outaide marriage it brings guilt because the inner man bears witness against it. One doesn't need to be a Christian to know that.

Pls don't derail this thread.
Shalom.

Emmanystone:
Okay friends, let me humbly present the response i got when i asked the Holy Spirit, Why He said we should abstain from sex during fasting as couples.

He first began by asking me to define FASTING, i gave him the same defination and explanation Ubenedictus gave here. He said, that's how humans view it, but that's not all of it.

He said, Fasting doesn't mean absitnence, it means TO FASTEN SOMETHING TOGETHER. It means to tie two together. It means to melt, to fuse, to bind, to glue, to unite tow together. With a purpose.

He said, when we Fast, we FASTEN our spirits to His. We become one with Him by melting, fusing, and uniting into Him as one, with the intent of drawing from Him, something we need in the physical world. Something which does not yet exist in the material realm and make it exist.

Prayer is calling those things out with our mouths.

Abraham calleth things that be not as though they were, and they became.

He said, Sex or love making is the same thing. When a man have Sex with his wife, or anyone else, they melt, fuse into each other with the intent of drawing from God a New Life which does not exist yet into existence.

He reffered me to Genesis 2:24 which says

And a man shall leave his mother and father and join himself to his wife and they both shall become one . It was at thia point i got a deeper understaning of this verse.

He said, the reason for which He asked a man to stay away from melting into his wife while melting into Him is that, a man can not melt into God and be melting into his wife at the same time..

When a man and his wife agrees for instance to go to Him in Fasting and prayer asking for a Child or anything else, both of them stand as individuals, separately standing before Him. They melts individually into Him, not as a couple. They may have the same motive, but they are different distinct entities possessing single units of Spirits, and it is with this Spirits they Fasten or fuse into Him. Hence, THEY CAN NOT FUSE INTO GOD AND FUSE INTO each OTHER at the same Time.
Here is the reason for abstinence. It has nothing to do with taming the flesh to boost the Spirit.

Sex tie souls or Spirits together. It is a highly Spieitual exerxise. Unbelievers do it too to draw from their master what they needs.

Someone mentioned People of other faiths, we shd remember that if there's fake it's becos there exists the original.

Unbelievers don't Fast, at least not to Jesus.

Salom.
Cc: Sarassin, Butterflylion Muttleylaff, mujtahida, Ubenedictus, Ronpet777

Wow, not bad.
You could have knocked me down with a feather sha

Emmanystone:
Okay friends, let me humbly present the response i got when i asked the Holy Spirit, Why He said we should abstain from sex during fasting as couples.

He first began by asking me to define FASTING, i gave him the same defination and explanation Ubenedictus gave here. He said, that's how humans view it, but that's not all of it.

He said, Fasting doesn't mean absitnence, it means TO FASTEN SOMETHING TOGETHER. It means to tie two together. It means to melt, to fuse, to bind, to glue, to unite tow together. With a purpose.

He said, when we Fast, we FASTEN our spirits to His. We become one with Him by melting, fusing, and uniting into Him as one, with the intent of drawing from Him, something we need in the physical world. Something which does not yet exist in the material realm and make it exist.

Prayer is calling those things out with our mouths.

Abraham calleth things that be not as though they were, and they became.

He said, Sex or love making is the same thing. When a man have Sex with his wife, or anyone else, they melt, fuse into each other with the intent of drawing from God a New Life which does not exist yet into existence.

He reffered me to Genesis 2:24 which says

And a man shall leave his mother and father and join himself to his wife and they both shall become one . It was at thia point i got a deeper understaning of this verse.

He said, the reason for which He asked a man to stay away from melting into his wife while melting into Him is that, a man can not melt into God and be melting into his wife at the same time..

When a man and his wife agrees for instance to go to Him in Fasting and prayer asking for a Child or anything else, both of them stand as individuals, separately standing before Him. They melts individually into Him, not as a couple. They may have the same motive, but they are different distinct entities possessing single units of Spirits, and it is with this Spirits they Fasten or fuse into Him. Hence, THEY CAN NOT FUSE INTO GOD AND FUSE INTO each OTHER at the same Time.
Here is the reason for abstinence. It has nothing to do with taming the flesh to boost the Spirit.

Sex tie souls or Spirits together. It is a highly Spieitual exerxise. Unbelievers do it too to draw from their master what they needs.

Someone mentioned People of other faiths, we shd remember that if there's fake it's becos there exists the original.

Unbelievers don't Fast, at least not to Jesus.

Salom.
Cc: Sarassin. Butterflylion Muttleylaff, mujtahida, Ubenedictus, Ronpet777.

Isaiah 58: 6 - 12

6 “Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter—
when you see the naked, to clothe them,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?
8 Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness[a] will go before you,
and the glory of the Lord will be your rear guard.
9 Then you will call, and the Lord will answer;
you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I.
“If you do away with the yoke of oppression,
with the pointing finger and malicious talk,
10 and if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry
and satisfy the needs of the oppressed,
then your light will rise in the darkness,
and your night will become like the noonday.
11 The Lord will guide you always;
he will satisfy your needs in a sun-scorched land
and will strengthen your frame.
You will be like a well-watered garden,
like a spring whose waters never fail.
12 Your people will rebuild the ancient ruins
and will raise up the age-old foundations;
you will be called Repairer of Broken Walls,
Restorer of Streets with Dwellings.

Note that fasting as depicted there IS ALL ABOUT OTHERS. However note verse 7b.

Compare that to Ephesians 5:31

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

butterflyl1on:


Every inspired writer of scripture had their own very distinct style of passing the message across. Paul was a lawyer so wrote using that style and if you wish to understand his writings properly you need to put on legal goggles.

Paul Never at any point indicated that sex between a man and his wife was carnal. He was focused on consent and agreement in marriage.

Once upon a time the man and the woman were single but the day they came together in marriage then EVERYTHING done must be done in agreement (including spiritual things). The Bible says, "can two walk together except they agree"?

If the man wishes to fast he should let his wife know and it is up to her to accept to give him space during this period or to deny him space and still have sex with him even while he fasts. The man should not feel bad about it because her actions would not negate his fast but would rather enhance it especially since both of them are NOT IN DISAGREEMENT.

when there is disagreement on this then there is a problem. Fasting is for SELF BUILDING. AGREEMENTS IN MARRIAGE OVER SPIRITUAL ISSUES IS FOR EVERYONES benefit.

Paul said "EXCEPT IT BE WITH CONSENT". this is a legal language. What he said in essence is as a married couple, [HAVE SEX AND KEEP HAVING SEX EVEN WHEN FASTING DESPITE NOT HAVING CONSENT FROM YOUR PARTNER.

If the language your friend used for carnal meant sinful then they are the ones wrong. Carnal means 2 things. We as Christians term everything carnal as sinful. THIS IS WRONG.

Carnality simply means something physical, especially sexual activities. Note that we are talking about sexual activities between a husband and his wife and not between unmarried people. Also know that marriage is of God and the command of being fruitful and multiplying is also from God. This command is given to ONLY marries couples so sexual union EVEN while fasting isn't carnal (sinful). But it is carnal (physical) in agreement and in oneness which is the desire of God for all his children.

My 2 kobo.

(First bolded) Sex in marriage is totally holy to me, but i believe if God says don't do it while fasting is for a reason which doesn't mean it's a bad thing. And i believe that if God says, don't and you do, in that you transgress. And since you are asking or petitioning Him for something, if you transgress and have sex, you won't have it.

(Second bolded) pls explain more.

Emmanystone:
Okay friends, let me humbly present the response i got when i asked the Holy Spirit, Why He said we should abstain from sex during fasting as couples.

He first began by asking me to define FASTING, i gave him the same defination and explanation Ubenedictus gave here. He said, that's how humans view it, but that's not all of it.

He said, Fasting doesn't mean absitnence, it means TO FASTEN SOMETHING TOGETHER. It means to tie two together. It means to melt, to fuse, to bind, to glue, to unite tow together. With a purpose.

He said, when we Fast, we FASTEN our spirits to His. We become one with Him by melting, fusing, and uniting into Him as one, with the intent of drawing from Him, something we need in the physical world. Something which does not yet exist in the material realm and make it exist.

Prayer is calling those things out with our mouths.

Abraham calleth things that be not as though they were, and they became.

He said, Sex or love making is the same thing. When a man have Sex with his wife, or anyone else, they melt, fuse into each other with the intent of drawing from God a New Life which does not exist yet into existence.

He reffered me to Genesis 2:24 which says

And a man shall leave his mother and father and join himself to his wife and they both shall become one . It was at thia point i got a deeper understaning of this verse.

He said, the reason for which He asked a man to stay away from melting into his wife while melting into Him is that, a man can not melt into God and be melting into his wife at the same time..

When a man and his wife agrees for instance to go to Him in Fasting and prayer asking for a Child or anything else, both of them stand as individuals, separately standing before Him. They melts individually into Him, not as a couple. They may have the same motive, but they are different distinct entities possessing single units of Spirits, and it is with this Spirits they Fasten or fuse into Him. Hence, THEY CAN NOT FUSE INTO GOD AND FUSE INTO each OTHER at the same Time.
Here is the reason for abstinence. It has nothing to do with taming the flesh to boost the Spirit.

Sex tie souls or Spirits together. It is a highly Spieitual exerxise. Unbelievers do it too to draw from their master what they needs.

Someone mentioned People of other faiths, we shd remember that if there's fake it's becos there exists the original.

Unbelievers don't Fast, at least not to Jesus.

Salom.
Cc: Sarassin. Butterflylion Muttleylaff, mujtahida, Ubenedictus, Ronpet777.

You are entitled to your beliefs. Please there are very serious practical needs in this world, so many diseases, poverty, problems of international politics, people are in pains, hearts are hurting. Kindly ask the Holy Spirit to tell you what the permanent cure for AIDS is.

While at it let me ask I thought the Bible says that the two shall become one. In fact the Bible says that believers are already one with the Lord. So how is it that just because couples want to fasten to God, they have to uncouple from themselves (as in your definition of fasting) when they are one in themselves and one with God already as believers. You even said that they fasten to God as individuals. So what God has joined together, God or man can put momentarily asunder through fasting? Kai, thank God I freed myself from the mesh of religion.

You need your religious exceptionalism just so that you can continue to logically believe your faith. It's not that your faith is more valid than others. In reality there's no exception for Christians : they are just like every other men, they suffer what others suffer, they enjoy what others enjoy, they die like other men(ironically even with their notions of everlasting life they are more orless afraid of death as other men)

MuttleyLaff:
There are other hormones than those raging ones

Not bad an attempt.
Having sex can be had in both marriage and outside marriage
When had outside marriage, God, who is Love, isn't present and/or involved in it.
Sex, had inside marriage, has God's blessing in it hence, the couple are not just having sex but are making love.

You didn't give names of characters who made love, so I will.
Adam knowing Eve, had sex by and made love
Judah, Onan etcetera had sex with the respective women but weren't making love with them

... and what does 1 Corinthians 7:6 say?

Exactly, Paul improved the question he was asked about abstaining from having sexual relations with a woman by giving a response with extra information.
Check 1 Corinthians 7:1 for the question that prompted his reply
It is about if it is good for a man not making love with a woman.

I had already advised not read 1 Corinthians 7:5 and/or 1 Corinthians 7:6 in isolation

So you dont at all know what the hormones prolactin, oxytocin and melatonin are?
Hmmm, interesting.

Anyway, so you know you asked your question incorrectly.
You asked a non starter question
and that is why I asked you about the difference between having sex and/or making love.

Having sex in marriage can't be carnal
It is having sex outside marriage that is carnal

I gave names. For just Sex, Onan with Tamar,

And, Isaac and Rebecca for love making.


So, since having sex in marriage is Holy, you'd say Homosexual couples are engaging in a Holy act? It's marriage, isn't it?

Mujtahida:

Yes. So what is the reason for sexual abstention for purposes of fasting and prayer as espoused by Paul in the Bible?

See there's no need beating around. Whether in Christianity, Buddhism or any other religion, fasting and prayer is a time of denial so that the spiritual aspects of man's being can find expression. So don't you think it's common sense that along with food and drinks, sex should also be abstained from?

I mentioned you in a post pls read it.

Ronpet777:


Yeah! But that at least gives us an idea why He wud want us to keep off momentarily in order to focus more on Him at that period of time.

Yes ke.

Emmanystone:

(First bolded) Sex in marriage is totally holy to me, but i believe if God says don't do it while fasting is for a reason which doesn't mean it's a bad thing. And i believe that if God says, don't and you do, in that you transgress. And since you are asking or petitioning Him for something, if you transgress and have sex, you won't have it.

(Second bolded) pls explain more.

God did not say don't.

The language is EXCEPT IT BE WITH CONSENT".

paul said "defraud ye not one another except....... "

What this means is EVEN WHEN CONSENT ISNT GIVEN OR GOTTEN STILL GO AHEAD AND FAST WHILE HAVING SEX.

let me rephrase.

He said deny each other sex ONLY WITH CONSENT. this means without consent sex should continue. His focus isn't so much on sex than it is on agreement.

Fasting is NOT ABOUT PETITIONING GOD FOR SOMETHING.

I have posted Isaiah 58: 6 - 12 to show you what fasting is. Fasting is different from prayer. But we always often put them together when we says FASTING AND PRAYER.

Jesus lived his life based on what Isaiah 58 said about fasting. He was all about others and not himself and when you are moved by love in this nature, and you pray, God quickly answers.

Fasting is simply TRAINING OURSELVES TO LOVE GOD BY LOVING OTHERS MORE AND MORE.

There shouldn't be anything selfish about fasting. It's all shades of selflessness.

Emmanystone:

I mentioned you in a post pls read it.

Bro, let me leave you to discuss things that pertain to your beliefs. I am not a believer. I will rather argue against the things you write cos my perspective is not framed by the Bible and I'm sure that's not what you want. You sound like a nice guy though. Cheers

Mujtahida:

You are entitled to your beliefs

Yes i am, as you are too.

Mujtahida:

Please there are very serious practical needs in this world, so many diseases, poverty, problems of international politics, people are in pains, hearts are hurting. Kindly ask the Holy Spirit to tell you what the permanent cure for AIDS is.

There are consequences for actions bro, if you eat your cake, you loose it. You can't reject God and do as you like yet expect that everything will just run smoothly. When you sow a seed, when the friuts comes, you'll eat from them. Point is, you won't be the only one eating from the seed you planted.

Hosea 8:7 He that sows the Whirlwind shall reap it storms
The world rejects God to serve satan abi? Enjoy.

Mujtahida:

While at it let me ask I thought the Bible says that the two shall become one. In fact the Bible says that believers are already one with the Lord. So how is it that just because couples want to fasten to God, they have to uncouple from themselves (as in your definition of fasting) when they are one in themselves and one with God already as believers.

We are to with Him i dividually in slavation. Itst the same thing as saying, Christianity is a personal race. The husband doesn't get saved for the wife.

A man and his wife together as a couple can not fuse into God because they are two distinct spirits. They do that seprately.
He makes the rules, you either take them or leave.

God is not a Democrat. He dictates and you follow or leave.

Mujtahida:

You need your religious exceptionalism just so that you can continue to logically believe your faith. It's not that your faith is more valid than others. In reality there's no exception for Christians : they are just like every other men, they suffer what others suffer, they enjoy what others enjoy, they die like other men(ironically even with their notions of everlasting life they are more orless afraid of death as other men)

You have said nothing here.

I just told why the Holy Spirit said no sex during Fasting or Fastening, i expected you to dwell on it.

butterflyl1on:





Note that fasting as depicted there IS ALL ABOUT OTHERS. However note verse 7b.

Compare that to Ephesians 5:31

The Isa 58 you quoted tells us what Our Father expects us to do physically when we Fasten ourselves into Him.these are the things that will make Him release to us quickly what we are fastening ourselves to Him.

When we need something from God, thus, fasten ourselves to Him, we shd do this do that... Is what the Holy Spirit says in Isaiah. Those are the things whixh pleases God. What he is saying is, to get from me, please me first.

MuttleyLaff:
Wow, not bad.
You could have knocked me down with a feather sha

Why?

Emmanystone:
I gave names. For just Sex, Onan with Tamar,

And, Isaac and Rebecca for love making.


So, since having sex in marriage is Holy, you'd say Homosexual couples are engaging in a Holy act?
It's marriage, isn't it?

Homosexual couples are having sex, they aren't making love. There is a difference.
Adam knew Eve, as in made love with Eve.
Cain knew his wife, as in Cain made love with his wife
Adam knew his wife again, made love again with Eve
Judah and Omar went into Tamar, both did NOT make love with, but only had sex with her
King David and Bathsheba went into each other and weren't necessarily in the real sense, making love

Emmanystone:
Why?

I think after my above up there, you're feeling the drift

Mujtahida:

Bro, let me leave you to discuss things that pertain to your beliefs. I am not a believer. I will rather argue against the things you write cos my perspective is not framed by the Bible and I'm sure that's not what you want. You sound like a nice guy though. Cheers

Then argue against it. No problem with that. We are having a conversation ba? We must not agree.

Emmanystone:

The Isa 58 you quoted tells us what Our Father expects us to do physically when we Fasten ourselves into Him.these are the things that will make Him release to us quickly what we are fastening ourselves to Him.

When we need something from God, thus, fasten ourselves to Him, we shd do this do that... Is what the Holy Spirit says in Isaiah. Those are the things whixh pleases God. What he is saying is, to get from me, please me first.

We are saying the same thing. However it is fasting and not fasten.

Jesus said, when I was homeless you sheltered me. Naked you clothed me, in prison you visited me.........

Whatsoever you do to the least of these ones you do unto me.

Like I said, fasting is all shades of selflessness just like God who because he gave us Jesus, how can he not along with Jesus give us all things.

We please God by focussing on the people we see. The Bible says "how can you say you love God but hate your brother"?

1st John 4:7 -8 says

Beloved let us LOVE ONE ANOTHER, for LOVE IS OF GOD. FOR EVERYONE THAT LOVES IS BORN OF GOD AND KNOWS GOD....... HE THAT DOES NOT LOVE DOES NOT KNOW GOD FOR GOD IS LOVE.

Fasting is all about Love for others.

Emmanystone:



Yes i am, as you are too.

There are consequences for actions bro, if you eat your cake, you loose it. You can't reject God and do as you like yet expect that everything will just run smoothly. When you sow a seed, when the friuts comes, you'll eat from them. Point is, you won't be the only one eating from the seed you planted


Hosea 8:7 He that sows the Whirlwind shall reap it storms
The world rejects God to serve satan abi? Enjoy.

Let tackle where I believe the thought encapsulated in the bolded takes its ultimate rise from: Because Adam sinned all sinned. Isn't that where the bolded comes from? Well, Na your believe. Adam was Adam. I am me. Ezekiel 18 v2-3
The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:

“‘The parents eat sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge’?
3 “As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel.

So I join my mouth with Jehovah and say don't tell me how I carry the burden and consequences of Adam's sin. It's all a fiction created in a book. And if my deeds or misdeeds have consequences I should be held responsible not those who are affected by it(going by your seed metaphor)

We are to with Him i dividually in slavation. Itst the same thing as saying, Christianity is a personal race. The husband doesn't get saved for the wife.

A man and his wife together as a couple can not fuse into God because they are two distinct spirits. They do that seprately.
He makes the rules, you either take them or leave.

God is not a Democrat. He dictates and you follow or leave

.
Dictates by dictating to men to write a book, Dictates by speaking through proxies. I bet God is dictating through you now. Surely your God is a dictator cos he even commands men to love him. Something that if a human being does we'd regard them as suffering from one form of mania or the other. If you know the meaning of what you just wrote you will know that you have automatically said that your God is loveless. While love does not mean lawlessness, it also doesn't mean dictatorship.

You have said nothing here.

I just told why the Holy Spirit said no sex during Fasting or Fastening, i expected you to dwell on it.

You were trying to show that Christian fasting is different. And I am saying how else could it be. Your faith is all about exceptionalism yet you guys are just like other men

Yes, it says dont.

butterflyl1on:

The language is EXCEPT IT BE WITH CONSENT".

paul said "defraud ye not one another except....... "

What this means is EVEN WHEN CONSENT ISNT GIVEN OR GOTTEN STILL GO AHEAD AND FAST WHILE HAVING SEX

Sir, it says to avoid sexual immorality always have sex with each other, but only when you are fasting and praying stay away. The except there means, the only time you do not is when you are fasting and praying

butterflyl1on:

let me rephrase.

He said deny each other sex ONLY WITH CONSENT. this means without consent sex should continue. His focus isn't so much on sex than it is on agreement.

Fasting is NOT ABOUT PETITIONING GOD FOR SOMETHING.

Yes, deny yourselves sex only when fasting, but that shd be discussed and agreed between bith parties. But if one party refuses, that means no fasting shd be done because, sex fastens and three can't fast as one.

If the woman wants to fast, the her husband says no, then no fasting. You can't fast and couple at the same time, as i understand the Holy Spirit

butterflyl1on:

I have posted Isaiah 58: 6 - 12 to show you what fasting is. Fasting is different from prayer. But we always often put them together when we says FASTING AND PRAYER.

That is not what fasting is, that is what we shd do for our fasting to be acceptable.
You cant fast without prayer, but you can prayer wirhout fasting.

butterflyl1on:

fasting. He was all about others and not himself and when you are moved by love in this nature, and you pray, God quickly answers.

Exactly. He pleased the Father by being all about others. That is what we shd do for our father to answers us quickly.

butterflyl1on:

Jesus lived his life based on what Isaiah 58 said about

Fasting is simply TRAINING OURSELVES TO LOVE GOD BY LOVING OTHERS MORE AND MORE.

There shouldn't be anything selfish about fasting. It's all shades of selflessness.

butterflyl1on:

God did not say don't.

Fating is 'Training ourselves to Love God' by loving others. No. Sir Christianity is Training ourselves to.love God by loving others.

Not everyone is a Christian, but many non Christians fast.

Like I said, fasting is all shades of selflessness just like God who because he gave us Jesus, how can he not along with Jesus give us all things.

We please God by focussing on the people we see. The Bible says "how can you say you love God but hate your brother"?

1st John 4:7 -8 says

Beloved let us LOVE ONE ANOTHER, for LOVE IS OF GOD. FOR EVERYONE THAT LOVES IS BORN OF GOD AND KNOWS GOD....... HE THAT DOES NOT LOVE DOES NOT KNOW GOD FOR GOD IS LOVE.

Fasting is all about Love for others. [/quote]

butterflyl1on:


We are saying the same thing. However it is fasting and not fasten.

Jesus said, when I was homeless you sheltered me. Naked you clothed me, in prison you visited me.........

Whatsoever you do to the least of these ones you do unto me.

Well, the Holy Spieit replaced Fasting with Fastening. I never ever associated fasting with tying or fastening two things together until i now. So, am obliged to go with Him.

I will reply the others in the evening.

I garrogo naw.

Emmanystone:
Like I said, fasting is all shades of selflessness just like God who because he gave us Jesus, how can he not along with Jesus give us all things.

We please God by focussing on the people we see. The Bible says "how can you say you love God but hate your brother"?

1st John 4:7 -8 says

Beloved let us LOVE ONE ANOTHER, for LOVE IS OF GOD. FOR EVERYONE THAT LOVES IS BORN OF GOD AND KNOWS GOD....... HE THAT DOES NOT LOVE DOES NOT KNOW GOD FOR GOD IS LOVE.

Fasting is all about Love for others.


We are saying the same thing.
However it is fasting and not fasten

Jesus said, when I was homeless you sheltered me. Naked you clothed me, in prison you visited me.........

Whatsoever you do to the least of these ones you do unto me.
Well, the Holy Spieit replaced Fasting with Fastening. I never ever associated fasting with tying or fastening two things together until i now. So, am obliged to go with Him
I will reply the others in the evening.
I garrogo naw

I know the feeling, I left home late this morning because of leaving responses on the thread.
Even after leaving, had to find a place to park, to continue again responding

Emmanystone:






Yes, it says dont.


Sir, it says to avoid sexual immorality always have sex with each other, but only when you are fasting and praying stay away. The except there means, the only time you do not is when you are fasting and praying

Yes, deny yourselves sex only when fasting, but that shd be discussed and agreed between bith parties. But if one party refuses, that means no fasting shd be done because, sex fastens and three can't fast as one.

If the woman wants to fast, the her husband says no, then no fasting. You can't fast and couple at the same time, as i understand the Holy Spirit

That is not what fasting is, that is what we shd do for our fasting to be acceptable.
You cant fast without prayer, but you can prayer wirhout fasting.


Exactly. He pleased the Father by being all about others. That is what we shd do for our father to answers us quickly.



Fating is 'Training ourselves to Love God' by loving others. No. Sir Christianity is Training ourselves to.love God by loving others.

Not everyone is a Christian, but many non Christians fast.

The foundation of others who fast is different from our foundation. Also motive matters the most. Others fast because they wish to be seen and known to fast e.g the Muslims who announce theirs for everyone to know and see.

When your motive is based on what the scripture says "do not let your left hand know what the right is doing " then this is a solid foundation.

Regarding the legal language used by Paul, I do not think you understood the interpretation thereof.

Paul said NEVER DENY YOURSELVES SEX AT ALL. THE ONLY TIME YOU SHOULD DO SO IS IN THE FACE OF FASTING BUT EVEN AT THAT, LET IT BE DONE VIA CONSENT.

he is not saying do not fast and have sex. He is saying that, this should be the ONLY grounds abstinence should be done and not through hatred, strife, bitterness, etc. This is why the bible says BE ANGRY BUT SIN NOT. LET NOT THE SUN GO DOWN IN YOUR WRATH".

Paul meant that you can only deny yourselves sex for the right mutually agreed upon reasons and not out of some selfish reason and fasting is a good reason he gave but even at that, agreement is very important. He implied that it is better to fast and have sex in agreement than to fast and have sex in disagreement or in reverse, it is better not to have sex during fasting BASED ON AGREEMENT.

The man and the woman as a married couple are now ONE FLESH so must come to God with ONE heart. This foundation was laid when the bible said we should not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. When we miss this foundation then we open ourselves to all sorts of errors.

Agreement is everything. Oneness is everything.

Emmanystone:

Lol. You know a lot, that's why you became my own Mia Caro. No one, but you.

Aaah Cara Mia nothing can change my love for you, except when you quote dodgy verses. That verse in Corinthians is quite clear, Paul pre-supposes that Sex is good, he also pre-supposes that sex during fasting is not even an issue subject to consent, I agree largely with my good friend butterflylion in his comments , though I disagree slightly with the legal largesse, I believe that the consent to be sought is that both parties “agree not to engage in sex” during a fasting period, other than that- then there should be no reason why either the husband or the wife denies the other, the pleasure of its charms or the nectar of its flower.

I would go further and say that the use of the word “consent” is in itself a bit of a red herring since we were dealing with a patriarchy anyway, that consent was merely code for…."if the husband agrees". In reality the woman’s views on the matter were irrelevant.

Emmanystone:
Okay friends, let me humbly present the response i got when i asked the Holy Spirit, Why He said we should abstain from sex during fasting as couples...........

I don't think you thought this one through and ascribing your thoughts to the Holy Spirit is rather disingenuous. The reasoning here is flawed and disjointed, you went up a hill and came down a mountain. Like to see what the brethren have to say.

Emmanystone:
Lol. You know a lot, that's why you became my own Mia Caro. No one, but you.

Sarassin:
Aaah Cara Mia nothing can change my love for you, except when you quote dodgy verses.
That verse in Corinthians is quite clear, Paul pre-supposes that Sex is good, he also pre-supposes that sex during fasting is not even an issue subject to consent, I agree largely with my good friend butterflylion in his comments ,
though I disagree slightly with the legal largesse, I believe that the consent to be sought is that both parties “agree not to engage in sex” during a fasting period, other than that- then there should be no reason why either the husband or the wife denies the other, the pleasure of its charms or the nectar of its flower.

I would go further and say that the use of the word “consent” is in itself a bit of a red herring since we were dealing with a patriarchy anyway, that consent was merely code for…."if the husband agrees"
In reality the woman’s views on the matter were irrelevant.

The greek word used in that verse was "sumphonos", it means and is correctly translated as "mutual consent"
In reality, all men have the feeling and/urge to immediately roll over and fall to sleep after having sex and/or making love whereas the woman is left wide awake

A guy on a fasting and prayer mission might want consider not having sex with his wife because of not wanting to fall asleep after and thereby jeopardise his fasting and prayer mission, but as Paul was asked about, whether it was good for a man not to have sexual relation with a woman, he broadened the answer, to squash and deal with any thought of denying having sex with one another on the basis of being on a fasting and prayer mission.

His advice was, you can, note in 1 Corinthians 7:6 it wasn't a command though but is an advice, you can abstain from having sex with other for having a meaningful fasting and prayer mission BUT it has to be on mutual consent.
At least if mutually consented, then veering into sexual immorality can't be a defence

Sarassin:
I don't think you thought this one through and ascribing your thoughts to the Holy Spirit is rather disingenuous.

I wouldn't begrudge her about that.
Sometimes you have to grow into what exactly the Holy Spirit is offering for wear

Sarassin:
The reasoning here is flawed and disjointed, you went up a hill and came down a mountain.
Like to see what the brethren have to say.

That's why I said my sister could have blown me over with a feather

Sarassin:


I don't think you thought this one through and ascribing your thoughts to the Holy Spirit is rather disingenuous.

LMAO!!!!!.... Sarassinnnnnnnnnnnnnn...I have not had a reason to laugh this hard in weeks. But then I don't think this story is complete, I am particularly interested in a detailed narrative as to how she met the Holy Spirit.

MuttleyLaff:


The greek word used in that verse was "sumphonos", it means and is correctly translated as "mutual consent"
In reality, all men have the feeling and/urge to immediately roll over and fall to sleep after having sex and/or making love whereas the woman is left wide awake

Well, I hardly think rolling over and falling asleep after sexual exertion is the main reason for avoiding the act during fasting, but I defer to your superior knowledge on the matter.

MuttleyLaff:

His advice was, you can, note in 1 Corinthians 7:6 it wasn't a command though but is an advice, you can abstain from having sex with other for having a meaningful fasting and prayer mission BUT it has to be on mutual consent.
At least if mutually consented, then veering into sexual immorality can't be a defence

Broadly, I concur. Therefore by extension sex between consenting couples during a fasting period cannot be carnal. And yes you are right, that verse was never a command. The point of divergence for me is on the insistence that it must be by consent, here I disagree, Paul's own views on women are ambivalent to say the least and there was never any concept of equality of the sexes in first century Palestine, this idea of a man seeking his wife's consent for sex would be alien, in my view, it was an afterthought.

FlipGamBino:


LMAO!!!!!.... Sarassinnnnnnnnnnnnnn...I have not had a reason to laugh this hard in weeks. But then I don't think this story is complete, I am particularly interested in a detailed narrative as to how she met the Holy Spirit .

Talk about lighting a fuse.

Emmanystone:




Like I said, fasting is all shades of selflessness just like God who because he gave us Jesus, how can he not along with Jesus give us all things.

We please God by focussing on the people we see. The Bible says "how can you say you love God but hate your brother"?

1st John 4:7 -8 says

Beloved let us LOVE ONE ANOTHER, for LOVE IS OF GOD. FOR EVERYONE THAT LOVES IS BORN OF GOD AND KNOWS GOD....... HE THAT DOES NOT LOVE DOES NOT KNOW GOD FOR GOD IS LOVE.

Fasting is all about Love for others.

Now the principal reason for fasting is to enter what one can refer to as "A state of Grace", but then; this is but one of many pathways. Now the question is 'what is demanded from he who seeks to enter the "Grace of God"?, one very important requirement is maturity, within all traditions a level of general maturity is required, this includes physical, spiritual and even mental maturity, to this effect a lot of effort is put to focusing ones mind on very little through this period of fasting.

Sex is by no means canal within any period of marriage under the edicts of the Divine. As a matter of fact Sex is divine in nature. What matters more is the issue of expedience and within Sarassin's context, consent within this process. Thank you.

Emmanystone:

The believing brain. Anyway let me respect your wishes and not derail your thread.

Sarassin:

Well, I hardly think rolling over and falling asleep after sexual exertion is the main reason for avoiding the act during fasting

Now for the matters you wrote about:
"It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman
-1 Corinthians 7:1

1 Corinthians 7:1 is the genesis or what originated Paul's advice

Someone clever, thought it is a good idea not to have sexual relations with a woman and asked Paul about it.

Paul improved the question, by responding that, if at all one wants to not have sexual relations with a woman, then it has to be mutually consented.
Why answer the question in this manner, it is because his reply was in the context or background of marriage.
Except if tired, women aren't biologically wired up, to want to immediately roll over and fall asleep after having sex.

If a man is on a fasting mission and praying session, then as a safety measure, such man might want to stay away from having sex, so not to have interruptions in his focused plan
but then, that isn't an excuse to deny your partner their conjugal rights on that basis and without a mutual consent.

That is the gist of the matter.
Having sex not only induces sleep, it also drains and makes you lighter through losing a few hundred kilograms

Sarassin:
but I defer to your superior knowledge on the matter

Dont waste your charm on me

Sarassin:
Broadly, I concur.
Therefore by extension sex between consenting couples during a fasting period cannot be carnal. And yes you are right, that verse was never a command. The point of divergence for me is on the insistence that it must be by consent, here I disagree, Paul's own views on women are ambivalent to say the least and there was never any concept of equality of the sexes in first century Palestine, this idea of a man seeking his wife's consent for sex would be alien, in my view, it was an afterthought.

If not familiar with Paul's style of writing and idiosyncrasies, then he is often misunderstood and pigeon-holed like you've just done
You also toe the afterthought line like budaatum does

FlipGamBino:


LMAO!!!!!.... Sarassinnnnnnnnnnnnnn...
I have not had a reason to laugh this hard in weeks.
But then I don't think this story is complete, I am particularly interested in a detailed narrative as to how she met the Holy Spirit

Sarassin:
Talk about lighting a fuse.

The wind blows wherever it wants.
Just as you can hear the wind
but can't tell where it comes from or where it is going,
so you can't explain how people are born of the Holy Spirit or how they met the Holy Spirit