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Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief - Religion - Nairaland

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Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by Gggg102(m): 3:24pm On Feb 28, 2018
in some old threads, I've seen atheist argue that atheism is the lack of belief in god.

they claim that they are atheists not because they 'believe there is no god' but because they 'do not believe there is god'

if it is so, this means they allow a possibility of the existence of god, and hence cannot assert that there is no god.

for example, John tells Bayo that David won a million Naira.

if Bayo states that this never happened, he is being affirmative and he is so sure that it never happened.

if Bayo states that he does not believe it happened, he is allowing a possibility of the event happening because a fact remains a fact regardless of belief (or unbelief). Bayo by virtue of his unbelief agrees that it is possible, but he does not think it happened.

if John repeated this claim to Seun, Bayo cannot say authoritatively that 'this is not true' but can only express his doubt.

for Bayo to state that John's statement is untrue, he has to have be present when the event was said to happen. but he only received information from John and can only disbelieve, allowing a possibility of the statement being true.

therefore atheist by their definition agree that god possibly exists, but only doubt because they have not been able to experience him.
they can't assert that there is no god.



cc hopefullandlord
dalaman
johnnydon22
...
Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by Skepticus: 3:26pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:
in some old threads, I've seen atheist argue that atheism is the lack of belief in god.

they claim that they are atheists not because they 'believe there is no god' but because they 'do not believe there is god'

if it is so, this means they allow a possibility of the existence of god, and hence cannot assert that there is no god.

for example, John tells Bayo that David won a million Naira.

if Bayo states that this never happened, he is being affirmative and he is so sure that it never happened.

if Bayo states that he does not believe it happened, he is allowing a possibility of the event happening because a fact remains a fact regardless of belief (or unbelief). Bayo by virtue of his unbelief agrees that it is possible, but he does not think it happened.

if John repeated this claim to Seun, Bayo cannot say authoritatively that 'this is not true' but can only express his doubt.

for Bayo to state that John's statement is untrue, he has to have be present when the event was said to happen. but he only received information from John and can only disbelieve, allowing a possibility of the statement being true.

therefore atheist by their definition agree that god possibly exists, but only doubt because they have not been able to experience him.
they can't assert that there is no god.

grin grin

Strawman trash.

This won't fly, in the sphere of critical thinkers.
Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by Gggg102(m): 3:27pm On Feb 28, 2018
Skepticus:

grin grin
Strawman trash.
This won't fly, in the sphere of critical thinkers.
how
Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by dalaman: 3:27pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:
in some old threads, I've seen atheist argue that atheism is the lack of belief in god.

they claim that they are atheists not because they 'believe there is no god' but because they 'do not believe there is god'

if it is so, this means they allow a possibility of the existence of god, and hence cannot assert that there is no god.

for example, John tells Bayo that David won a million Naira.

if Bayo states that this never happened, he is being affirmative and he is so sure that it never happened.

if Bayo states that he does not believe it happened, he is allowing a possibility of the event happening because a fact remains a fact regardless of belief (or unbelief). Bayo by virtue of his unbelief agrees that it is possible, but he does not think it happened.

if John repeated this claim to Seun, Bayo cannot say authoritatively that 'this is not true' but can only express his doubt.

for Bayo to state that John's statement is untrue, he has to have be present when the event was said to happen. but he only received information from John and can only disbelieve, allowing a possibility of the statement being true.

therefore atheist by their definition agree that god possibly exists, but only doubt because they have not been able to experience him.
they can't assert that there is no god.



cc hopefullandlord
dalaman
johnnydon22
...

What do you mean by God? Give us a very clear and description of what you mean by God.

1 Like

Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by Gggg102(m): 3:30pm On Feb 28, 2018
dalaman:


What do you mean by God? Give us a very clear and description of what you mean by God.

creator(s) of universe who has control over all things and does as he pleases.

or

creative force(s) through which the universe came into existence.
Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by Skepticus: 3:35pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:


how

Since theists constantly harp on the existence of a God, gods, deities etc, atheists dismiss them as non-existent, unreasonable and irrational.

Dismissing an idea or concept is not an evidence of the viability of that idea or concept.
Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by Gggg102(m): 3:39pm On Feb 28, 2018
Skepticus:


Since theists constantly harp on the existence of a God, gods, deities etc, atheists dismiss them as non-existent, unreasonable and irrational.

Dismissing an idea or concept is not an evidence of the viability of that idea or concept.



I never claimed that dismissal of an idea as an evidence, what I am saying is dismissing such idea does not make it false.

2 Likes

Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by budaatum: 3:59pm On Feb 28, 2018
People define the atheist as they understand it, just like different people define their gods. I, am an atheist. I do not believe there are no gods. I know people deify things (concepts and ideas) and call them gods. But as actual existing entities, I know there are no gods.

By responses I get for making such a bold assertion, you may understand why many people might limit themselves to stating a belief that gods don't exist.

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Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by DeSepiero(m): 4:22pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:


therefore atheist by their definition agree that god possibly exists, but only doubt because they have not been able to experience him.
they can't assert that there is no god.




You ruined your argument with a faulty conclusion.

Atheists don't only doubt because they have not been able to experience him.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by rekinomtla(m): 4:29pm On Feb 28, 2018
It's a slogan part of the new atheist movement, it's their excuse for why they don't need to offer any evidence against the existence of God.
Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by Gggg102(m): 4:38pm On Feb 28, 2018
DeSepiero:


You ruined your argument with a faulty conclusion.

Atheists don't only doubt because they have not been able to experience him.


why do atheist doubt god then?


note: by experience I also mean evidence
Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by DeSepiero(m): 4:41pm On Feb 28, 2018
rekinomtla:
It's a slogan part of the new atheist movement, it's their excuse for why they don't need to offer any evidence against the existence of God.


It's basic to believe in something when there's evidence.
It's unnecessary to believe in something when there's no evidence.

It's not in a slogan, it's in common sense.

7 Likes

Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by DeSepiero(m): 4:44pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:


why do atheist doubt god then?

note: by experience I also mean evidence
If you mean the word 'evidence', use it. 'Experience' is very subjective.
Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by Gggg102(m): 4:48pm On Feb 28, 2018
DeSepiero:


If you mean the word 'evidence', use it. 'Experience' is very subjective.


I used experience because of its subjectivity.

Christians and other believers claim to have evidence when debating the existence of god. I used experience to avoid distracting beef.
Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by rekinomtla(m): 5:01pm On Feb 28, 2018
DeSepiero:

It's basic to believe in something when there's evidence.
It's unnecessary to believe in something when there's no evidence.

Yet atheists believe God doesn't exist in spite of having no evidence for that belief.

It's not in a slogan, it's in common sense.

It makes no sense. Evens dogs, cats and rocks can be defined as atheists under the "lack of belief" card/excuse.
Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by Seun(m): 5:03pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:
if it is so, this means they allow a possibility of the existence of god, and hence cannot assert that there is no god.
You're right. When an atheist says "there is no X", where X could be God, Satan, or Angel Gabriel, it's shorthand for "there is probably no X" or "there is no credible evidence that X exists". Some versions of God definitely don't exist, e.g. the all-loving, all-powerful God who allows children to be abducted, tortured, abused and brutally murdered, allows babies to have cancer, and will punish most people infinitely for finite crimes.

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Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by Seun(m): 5:11pm On Feb 28, 2018
rekinomtla:
It's a slogan part of the new atheist movement, it's their excuse for why they don't need to offer any evidence against the existence of God.
My evidence against the existence of God is that despite numerous efforts by religious people to prove his existence, they've failed. If God existed, proving his existence wouldn't be so difficult unless he was deliberately hiding from us. If he's hiding, shouldn't we stop bothering him?

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Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by Gggg102(m): 5:21pm On Feb 28, 2018
Seun:

You're right. When an atheist says "there is no X", where X could be God, Satan, or Angel Gabriel, it's shorthand for "there is probably no X" or "there is no credible evidence that X exists". Some versions of God definitely don't exist, e.g. the all-loving, all-powerful God who allows children to be abducted, tortured, abused and brutally murdered, allows babies to have cancer, and will punish most people infinitely for finite crimes.


saying there is no X sounds assertive.

if you are assertive, it means
either you know X exists or you believe X exists.
if you only lack belief and your opinion is there is probably no X, it does not seem logical to argue authoritatively that there is no X. it only seems like an opinion (which could be right or wrong), but from what I see, atheists argue from a position that makes them look like they are 100% sure.

maybe it's the language or something...



also from the position of lack of belief, it only makes sense to disprove claims or 'evidence', and to show why such claim is probably impossible.
proving god does not exist is something you would do if you believe or know he does not exist.

1 Like

Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by Seun(m): 5:28pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:
from what I see, atheists argue from a position that makes them look like they are 100% sure.
maybe it's the language or something...
Sometimes we use the language of certainty because we are 99.9% sure. It's tedious to insert the word 'probably' into every sentence. If a child asks you whether superman is real, the perfect answer is "probably not", but his existence is so unlikely that it's easier to just say "no".

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Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by Gggg102(m): 5:53pm On Feb 28, 2018
Seun:

Sometimes we use the language of certainty because we are 99.9% sure. It's tedious to insert the word 'probably' into every sentence. If a child asks you whether superman is real, the perfect answer is "probably not", but his existence is so unlikely that it's easier to just say "no".



in arguments, shouldn't we be striving to give perfect answers?

from the position of lack of belief, it only makes sense to disprove claims or 'evidence', and to show why such claim is probably impossible.
proving X is true or false is something you would do if you believe or know X is true/false.
how do you prove if you are a doubter

1 Like

Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by Seun(m): 6:22pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:
in arguments, shouldn't we be striving to give perfect answers?
Actually, the language of certainty is often better. If you're 99% sure of something and you use the word "probably", people may think it's 50%.

from the position of lack of belief, it only makes sense to disprove claims or 'evidence', and to show why such claim is probably impossible.
That's precisely what many outspoken atheists spend most of their time doing. Debunking faulty claims of the divine and the supernatural.
Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by butterflyl1on: 6:28pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:




in arguments, shouldn't we be striving to give perfect answers?

from the position of lack of belief, it only makes sense to disprove claims or 'evidence', and to show why such claim is probably impossible.
proving X is true or false is something you would do if you believe or know X is true/false.
how do you prove if you are a doubter


You are so right. Atheists claim there is no God but fail to show why and how they arrived at this to anyone when they asked to prove that God does not exist.

How can I make a claim like God exists and they make a counter claim that God does not exist and say that I alone need to prove mine while they cannot prove theirs? It's ridiculous to say the least.
Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by Gggg102(m): 6:45pm On Feb 28, 2018
Seun:




That's precisely what many outspoken atheists spend most of their time doing. Debunking faulty claims of the divine and the supernatural.


even if they disprove all the claims in existence, they can't prove god doesn't exist except they switch positions from unbelief in god to belief in inexistence in god or knowledge of inexistence.
Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by DeSepiero(m): 6:46pm On Feb 28, 2018
rekinomtla:


Yet atheists believe God doesn't exist in spite of having no evidence for that belief.



It makes no sense. Evens dogs, cats and rocks can be defined as atheists under the "lack of belief" card/excuse.

It's simple - the lack of evidence for God dismisses the necessity to acknowledge that exists.

1 Like

Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by Emusan(m): 6:55pm On Feb 28, 2018
Seun:

You're right. When an atheist says "there is no X", where X could be God, Satan, or Angel Gabriel, it's shorthand for "there is probably no X" or "there is no credible evidence that X exists". Some versions of God definitely don't exist, e.g. the all-loving, all-powerful God who allows children to be abducted, tortured, abused and brutally murdered, allows babies to have cancer, and will punish most people infinitely for finite crimes.

So how do you know those versions don't exist? Just because you think so or decided not to know..
Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by hopefulLandlord: 6:55pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:

proving god does not exist is something you would do if you believe or know he does not exist.

1. How do you know god (whatever your definition of that is) is a he?

2. How do you prove that leprechauns, unicorns, fairies, fire-breathing dragons, mole people, invisible Space Monkeys that float around Adelbaran and mermaids don't exist?

2 Likes

Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by DeSepiero(m): 6:56pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:


how do you prove if you are a doubter
If an atheist doubts that there's God, must he prove that there's no God?
If I doubt that you own a Bugatti, must I prove to you that you don't own one?

1 Like

Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by Emusan(m): 6:58pm On Feb 28, 2018
DeSepiero:


It's simple - the lack of evidence for God dismisses the necessity to acknowledge that exists.

Then tell me. Who are you expecting this/these evidence(s) from, God Himself or Theist?
Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by Gggg102(m): 7:07pm On Feb 28, 2018
hopefulLandlord:


1. How do you know god (whatever your definition of that is) is a he?

2. How do you prove that leprechauns, unicorns, fairies, fire-breathing dragons, mole people, invisible Space Monkeys that float around Adelbaran and mermaids don't exist?


1. I used he because I'm typing in English and it is more like a default third person pronoun. he could be a she or it for all I2. know.


2. you can't prove that they do not exist.
except if there was a effect that we should observe if they existed but we can't.
but still they could exist. same way micro organisms existed before we discovered them.

you can only reject their existence that does not invalidate their existence.
Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by hopefulLandlord: 7:15pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:



1. I used he because I'm typing in English and it is more like a default third person pronoun. he could be a she or it for all I2. know.


2. you can't prove that they do not exist.
except if there was a effect that we should observe if they existed but we can't.
but still they could exist. same way micro organisms existed before we discovered them.

you can only reject their existence that does not invalidate their existence.
so one can reject their existence due to lack of evidence, right?
Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by DeSepiero(m): 7:26pm On Feb 28, 2018
Emusan:


Then tell me. Who are you expecting this/these evidence(s) from, God Himself or Theist?

If God wants an atheist to believe in God, God will provide evidence and convince the atheist.

If the theist wants an atheist to believe in God, the theist will provide evidence and convince the atheist.

2 Likes

Re: Is Atheism A Belief Or Lack Of Belief by chemystery: 7:28pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:
in some old threads, I've seen atheist argue that atheism is the lack of belief in god.

they claim that they are atheists not because they 'believe there is no god' but because they 'do not believe there is god'

if it is so, this means they allow a possibility of the existence of god, and hence cannot assert that there is no god.

for example, John tells Bayo that David won a million Naira.

if Bayo states that this never happened, he is being affirmative and he is so sure that it never happened.

if Bayo states that he does not believe it happened, he is allowing a possibility of the event happening because a fact remains a fact regardless of belief (or unbelief). Bayo by virtue of his unbelief agrees that it is possible, but he does not think it happened.

if John repeated this claim to Seun, Bayo cannot say authoritatively that 'this is not true' but can only express his doubt.

for Bayo to state that John's statement is untrue, he has to have be present when the event was said to happen. but he only received information from John and can only disbelieve, allowing a possibility of the statement being true.

therefore atheist by their definition agree that god possibly exists, but only doubt because they have not been able to experience him.
they can't assert that there is no god.



cc hopefullandlord
dalaman
johnnydon22
...
In this analogy, winning 2 million naira is a proven possibility. Bayo might have seen proof of others winning 2 million naira. In this case, Bayo might have doubt but won't rule out the possibility even without john providing any evidence.

What of a case where John told Bayo that David's DVD player was just dispensing original naira notes worth up to 2 million. Here, Bayo will express doubt and will rule out every possibility until john provides and evidence. In fact, Bayo will even have more doubt if John actually didn't see it happen, instead was told by David's neighbour

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