SammieJayh:


Point out a specific case...
Bring empirical evidence...

SammieJayh:


How do the churches know the money is dirty money?
You think those public office holders have no businesses?

gypsey:
make a lot sense!

SammieJayh:
Read my other comments and you'll see where I made my point about Nigerians being stupid...
?

SammieJayh:


Oh really?

Did the church pray for Buhari or Yar'adua?
Did they pray for Obasanjo before he became the first democratic President?

The people have a mind of their own which the church has no influence on...

CuteMadridista:


https://www.nairaland.com/4372621/daddy-freeze-calls-bishop-oyedepo

Also I can't seem to dig up the story of a particular person who was in the employ of a company and ruined the company with embezzlement while donating millions (probably billions) to Christ embassy, this man was eventually found out and the company wrote a letter to the church that the donations they received from that man was embezzled advising Christ embassy to please return the money. Christ Embassy refused


If a nation is ranked as one of the most corrupt countries in the world and world class churches are being built, then its common sense that they must be gaining from the embezzlement infact there's a reason CAN is trying very hard to influence politics as much as they can, go figure

gypsey:
my response wasn't suggesting you have issues with the comment, my comment was made in General, most people on here thinks or believes that anyone who labels himself a pastor can do no wrong or churches and so called christian church goers should be left alone, and their Activitties not scrutinized, queried or criticised.

Every Religious organisation be it Jews, muslim, budha or christainity, i believe should be fundermentally scrutinised transparently. because that's were terrorists and Dangerous crazed religious fanatics hide behind.

SammieJayh:


Did Emmanuel Atewe hand the money directly to Oyedepo?

And you blame Christ Embassy for the man who embezzled?


I also do not understand CAN's interference in politics, but I feel it's because the non Christians up there are trying to impose things on us...
And no organization will sit and watch itself burn...

Have you thought of CAN's involvement in politics to be for the regulation of policies relating to them and not monetary?

A church sitted on it's own will crumble...

Churches are benefitting hugely from the massive corruption in our country, if you can't see how that is then I can't help you

CuteMadridista:


You need to get my words properly so you don't create a strawman and knock it down like you just did

Here's my post which you first replied to



You then asked for empirical evidence and I just provided you 2 evidence, whether Oyedepo received the money directly by his own hand or not doesn't challenge those examples as at the end of the barrel, the church benefitted from corruption and that's been my claim. a country

Christ embassy benefitted from the massive corruption carried out by that man too and even REFUSED to return the money when investigations were carried out and he gave account on how he spent most of the money. If there's any Nairalander that still remembers this story, can such person provide the link? it'll be appreciated

SammieJayh:


Oyedepo receiving the money could be in the form of a bank transfer, how does that make him less?
Yes the church benefits from corruption(mostly unknowingly, there will always be Pharisees and Sadducees in the church).
Yes church money is stolen(winners pastors steal money and run away not oyedepo).

abiodunalasa:
Fmr Senate President David Mark recently built a multi million dollar *Catholic Church* in his home town... Same town the nearest pipe borne water is 500km away.

Same way 1.5billion was used in building *Ilorin Central mosque*... Same town that has no Library.


What exactly is the function of religion in this world..? �

purem:
This country is finished

People are suffering

Someone just gave birth to a animal-human species

The price of garri is going up

Dapchi girls are still missing

And worst of all buhari is still in power





AND RCCG CAN NOT DO ANYTHING BUT TO SHOW OFF HER ACHIEVEMENT

ADEBOYE IS MADT

CuteMadridista:


It took you so long to admit they benefit from corruption but I'm still spooked by your bringing individuals into this, I mentioned "Churches" so I see no reason for your bringing up Oyedepo and his pastors and you seem concerned about Oyedepo that it seems you're a winner's chapel member. I think my point is made

Also, I've gotten the link for the Christ Embassy embezzlement https://www.nairaland.com/393253/rhapsody-realities-daily-devotional/3#5870260

SammieJayh:


Everyone/everything needs transparency, beginning from the government...that is unarguable...


I'm only against mindless criticism and the people who feel transferring the responsibility of the government to the church is right, or the church is the backup government of the nation.

pantherblack:



That's how i'll be running my own o. There's a system i saw used in UK where all charitable organizations prepare their account, and publish it for clarity and openess, anything that lacks clarity and openess to me has dodgy activities going on inside of it

SammieJayh:


Here your typical African mentality comes to play...
Covert a thriving full fledged tertiary institution to a factory?

Then what will happen to Nigerian education?

You're just an hater...you're probably against the establishments and chosen to unlook the strides made by private universities...

We should as well convert all our tertiary institutions to factories...
Since Covenant University is performing better than UI and OAU...then it's more logical for UI and OAU to be converted to factories(toothpick and pencil factories will be a nice idea... )

You fail to realize that CU employs people, the workers there don't work for free...

Since you're banking on the church to establish factories, they should as well provide portable water for the whole of Nigeria...

What's the duty of the government...

gypsey:
makes even more sense!

SammieJayh:


Here your typical African mentality comes to play...
Covert a thriving full fledged tertiary institution to a factory?

Then what will happen to Nigerian education?

You're just an hater...you're probably against the establishments and chosen to unlook the strides made by private universities...

We should as well convert all our tertiary institutions to factories...
Since Covenant University is performing better than UI and OAU...then it's more logical for UI and OAU to be converted to factories(toothpick and pencil factories will be a nice idea... )

You fail to realize that CU employs people, the workers there don't work for free...

Since you're banking on the church to establish factories, they should as well provide portable water for the whole of Nigeria...

What's the duty of the government...

SammieJayh:



I mentioned Oyedepo because like you mentioned the Atewe case, every bashing around the church seem to revolve around him and Adeboye...

The actions of the Christ Embassy member were his and his alone...no one sent him to steal...

Even a law court will penalize him for his actions and never ask Christ Embassy to pay back...

gypsey:
makes even more sense! churches and religious bodies in my understanding are meant to be a Vocational charity organisations, Not a business centre, i hear a cetaun pastor in nigeria Owns Oil and petrol stations and shopping mall, and lives outrageously expensive lifestyle what's that About?
these lead me to think if they/he really believe his rewards are in Heaven, that's if heaven exists

gypsey:
I Agree! and as long as churches and every other religious bodies are part or wants to be part of our society or Any society they the should accept their fair share of criticism, as i am sure you would agree churches has more and can influence the masses more than the Govenment, example, Majority of people will not bother to vote but will bother to Attend churches. even politicians mention God in their speeches and during campaign. so i believe churches and religious bodies should be scrutinised and their Activities queried robostly (especially financially) more! as churches appears to play a large part in the society. in terms of Attracting followers,
i don't suscribe to the rethoric that because any man lables himself a pastor means he or they gets a free pass to scam and con Ignorant and unsuspecting constituences!

pantherblack:



We must subject ourselves to the law/rules we preach otherwise unknowingly we may become conceited, and this is where corruption starts and before yu know it, we become even what we preach against. I get mad when preachers get furious when people demand for openess, it's ultimately for the overall good of all individuals involved in any movement. Also, i've vowed never to be a part of any movement of any man whose motives i can't say i'm proud of, that's undeclared, left vague and let to imaginations. My fellow ministers need to return to earth from the thrones they've casted and set themselves upon. Ministry doesn't elevate us to become equals to God, or above humans, but service with pure humility mixed with love is whatt this generation is crying for, and what i believe is the genuine model for constructive practice

Benz4pimp:
You see how stupid you just acted?In the first chat,you were the first to name a uni!!!!now let me school u,u asked what happens to Nigerian uni...have you sat down to count how many uni’s u hav in america which is just a single country in North America compared to what you have in the whole of Africa?it is absolutely stupid if 3 countries in Africa combined have more uni’s than US on its own,yet u can’t compare any with the lowest educational uni in US...even your students relocate to Ghana and benin,Cotonou now!!!so tell me how those they employ that already had jobs in other uni’s before employment to CU helps!!!!

gypsey:
I agree! churches in my understanding are meant to be vocational and charitable organistions not a business centre or were expensive, outrageous lifestyles and ownership of petrol stations, expensive mansions and fleets of exortic vehicles and Private jets are exibited.

Benz4pimp:
please tell me why a church prefers to build a private school instead of a private working factory where families can work,get paid and feed their offsprings!!!chai!!Thanks God for fools!!!They can never see the logic!!!Why pay old ones above 50!if you have an industry as big as every private uni built by a church,do you know how it would ease every economy?

SammieJayh:


Highly understandable and genuine point...

As much as there are good religious leaders which we know and trust, there are a whole lot of others we can't say anything about...

Even if the church has a large influence on the society, the government is still the head and as such wields more power/influence...
Asking transparency of the church in a country whose government is shrouded by discrepancies and unaccountability will seem like picking on the church and selective prosecution...

If the government leads the train; every other body/organization will have no choice but to follow...


About not voting and church, we have something we believe in(which is GOD), we have a cause(directed by the Bible) and a goal(which is Heaven)...
They go to church and get their prayers answered, receive miracles and all...l

People would rather not vote because they feel their votes won't/doesn't count; afterall what does the country have to offer them other than an identity?

gypsey:
Precisely! it also Appears that Religion has taken over the minds of the masses, even politicians are taking Advantage of the situation by making reference to religion ( not that it's a bad thing if it's genuine) their referencies to religion seems to let them off totally from their incompetency to provide Adequate or no services to which they have been elected to provide.

Example, A poiltician asking his constituence to pray, or depend on God to provide them with Hospital treatments while he travels to Europe for medical treatments so you can see