superhumanist [s:
post=66409218]Many christians claim that they have purposeful lives unlike atheists who have to admit that life has no meaning. This is very false as it is in fact true that life is more meaningless with God

There are 4 ways to make this argument;


1) God himself is meaningless
Which christian God gives your life meaning? Is it the Jehovah's witness's God that hates blood transfusions and organ donations? Is it the anglican church's (Church of England) God that now allows gay marriage? Is it the Seraphim and Cherubim God that loves people being barefoot? Is it the Catholic Church's God that has now stopped sending people to purgatory or forgives sins through reverend fathers' penance?Is it the pentecostal God that needs your tithes every month?

Nobody has heard from God since the time of Jesus. No one truly knows what God is. Is God a spirit or an alien? So how do you even know what his purpose is for you?



2) God works in mysterious ways we do not understand and his purpose doesn't not rhyme with human purpose
Why should your purpose not be like Judas's own? God in the form of Jesus had already predestined Judas to be a backstabber. Why should you purpose be a sensible or noble one?

Why should your purpose not be like Pharoah's own? To enslave a people and perish due to your hardened hearts desire?
Why should your purpose not be like Job's own? To suffer and loose everything before you prosper?
Why should your purpose not be like Samson's own? To be betrayed by your bae and then kill yourself and others in revenge?

Why should God give you a sensible purpose?



3) Heaven itself has no purpose and it makes life earth meaningless
First, if you have an afterlife that is eternal bliss, what then is the purpose of living on earth? Life on earth becomes a meaningless vessel. A temporary life until the real one starts in heaven. The best one can actually hope for is to die young so as to get to heaven quicker. Why waste time on earth where the body withers and suffers? What really is the need for a long and fulfilling life on earth when eternal glory awaits in heaven. But then......

When you now reach heaven, what would you do for the rest of eternity? If you havent forgotten, it is time that gives our lives meaning. When your time is limited, you make the best use of it. If you have forever to do something, why rush? You can wait 200,000 years before you learn a new language. No rush. Vampire movies explain this problem very well- the vampires become bored and go for long hibernation after spending 100's of years learning everything.


4) Time destroys all purpose
The way God was worshipped during Jesus's time was different. Slavery was accepted (remember that Onesimus was a slave which apostle paul returned to his master), women were advised to keep silent in church. Things have changed. Whatever purpose you achieve on earth would either be forgotten or distorted in a 1000 years. No single message from a 1000 years ago has remained untampered and clear. The bible itself has been remixed so many times and so many versions have been made. To quote Ser Davos from game of thrones "nothing bleeps you harder than time[/s]

Unless you assume a God, the question of life's purpose is meaningless.
Bertrand Russell, Atheist.

Butterflyleo:


a certain renowned atheist named Bertrand Russell disagrees with you. He was a British philosopher, logician, mathematician, historian, writer, social critic, political activist and Nobel laureate. He was more exposed and more experienced than you are and ever will be and he said thus.

Bertrand Russell (mis)Quote?

I'm hoping you can point me in the right direction. The pastor at the church I attend is starting a series on "The Purpose Driven Life" based on a book by Rick Warren.

http://www.zondervanchurchsource.com...SBN=0310205719

During the lecture he quoted Bertrand Russell as saying,
"Unless you assume a god, the question of life�s purpose is
meaningless."

This doesn't seem to be one of Bertrand's more famous quotes
since I can't seem to find it anywhere except on other
Christian websites that are promoting the Purpose Driven
Series...and these sites only note that Bertrand Russell
(atheist) said it...kind of trying to point out that "Hey, if
an atheist can see there is no purpose without god, why can't
you fellow christians?".

I suspect that the quote is taken out of context but I can't
find what book or article the quote is taken from.

Could you give me the reference it is from and I will look it
up and read it in context.

Thanks
K. Locke

Anybody want to help me research a quote? I received this email:


would you be able to tell me where CHristians are getting this quote by Bertrand Russell "Unless you assume a God, the question of life's purpose is meaningless."

Thanks... can't find it.

--

I replied:


I can't seem to find an original source for this quote. I searched Google for both sites and newsgroups that might shed light on this quote. I couldn't come up with anything. The next time you hear the quote, you might want to challenge the poster to come up with an original source for it. If they can't do it, then point out that they're just repeating a quote they heard from someone else, and for all they know it might have been made up.

On the other hand, there's some valuable discussion you can read if you go to this link:

http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=M9aIa.983996%24OV.1088345%40rwcrnsc54

Bertrand Russell says that the QUESTION is meaningless, which is not the same as saying that LIFE is meaningless. Russell believed that the meaning of life was given by the person who lives it. I agree with him.

Hope that helps a bit. If you learn anything else, please let me know.

--

Anyone have anything to add to this?

obisco4u:
Very meaningless indeed.

How can a man just die on the cross and it automatically translates to the world being saved? Did his death suddenly make everyone automatically qualified for heaven or a better life? If it did not, which is obvious, then it was a suicide mission.

Neurotika:
A man wandered round the place healing people, feeding 5000 with a plate of fish, raising people and himself from the dead, yet even the Jews that lived with him still doesn't acknowledge these stories. No concrete evidence of those great things in the places he was said to live for over 30 years. But since a book said I should believe without questioning, then my brain can just take a back seat. Interesting world....

FOLYKAZE:
Christians are the most confused folks on earth. I wonder sometimes if they read their bible or if they read it without putting their thinking cap on.

Ecclesiastes 1:1-11 New International Version (NIV)

Everything Is Meaningless
1 The words of the Teacher,[a] son of David, king in Jerusalem:

2 “Meaningless! Meaningless!”
says the Teacher.
“Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless.”
3 What do people gain from all their labors
at which they toil under the sun?
4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.
6 The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.
7 All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.
8 All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.
9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there anything of which one can say,
“Look! This is something new”?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.
11 No one remembers the former generations,
and even those yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow them.

14 I observed everything going on under the sun, and really, it is all meaningless--like chasing the wind.

CuteMadridista:


You don't understand the context, pray to the Hole-ly spirit to open your eyes to the meaning of that passage

OR "meaningless" is a bad translation of the Hebrew word @&£&@+£- so don't read bible literally

OR Solomon was just giving his own opinion, those verses aren't from god himself but from Solomon. although we quote the verses of ecclesiastis like its god's opinion when it's convenient

doG bless you

superhumanist:


Jesus's purpose was also meaningless. His suicidal death did not change human behaviour one bit- people went on being people. It didn't stop people from sinning. In fact, majority of human beings are not Christians. 7 billion people and only about 2 billion are Christians.

CuteMadridista:


You don't understand the context, pray to the Hole-ly spirit to open your eyes to the meaning of that passage

OR "meaningless" is a bad translation of the Hebrew word @&£&@+£- so don't read bible literally

OR Solomon was just giving his own opinion, those verses aren't from god himself but from Solomon. although we quote the verses of ecclesiastis like its god's opinion when it's convenient

doG bless you

dukeprince50:
That no3

There are only few who knows that religions is a scam, There is no supreme dirty, religion was created to make people live a peaceful life by putting fear in them, little did they know that creating more than 1 religion could be problematic.

When things happen, its just coincidence, not because you are a Xtian or Muslim.

Those that take Xtianity too far are nothing different from our fathers who believed and worshipped demi gods.


but without religion, the world would have been worse than this. The Xtians, Muslims etc are nice and peaceful. Leah shibiru story should tell you that God does not exist

superhumanist:


Jesus's purpose was also meaningless. His suicidal death did not change human behaviour one bit- people went on being people. It didn't stop people from sinning. In fact, majority of human beings are not Christians. 7 billion people and only about 2 billion are Christians.

Neurotika:
A man wandered round the place healing people, feeding 5000 with a plate of fish, raising people and himself from the dead, yet even the Jews that lived with him still doesn't acknowledge these stories. No concrete evidence of those great things in the places he was said to live for over 30 years. But since a book said I should believe without questioning, then my brain can just take a back seat. Interesting world....

FOLYKAZE:
Christians are the most confused folks on earth. I wonder sometimes if they read their bible or if they read it without putting their thinking cap on.

Ecclesiastes 1:1-11 New International Version (NIV)

Everything Is Meaningless
1 The words of the Teacher,[a] son of David, king in Jerusalem:

2 “Meaningless! Meaningless!”
says the Teacher.
“Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless.”
3 What do people gain from all their labors
at which they toil under the sun?
4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.
6 The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.
7 All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.
8 All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.
9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there anything of which one can say,
“Look! This is something new”?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.
11 No one remembers the former generations,
and even those yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow them.

14 I observed everything going on under the sun, and really, it is all meaningless--like chasing the wind.

CAPSLOCKED:





ONE MAN WAS ABLE TO TALK TO THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE (MULTITUDE) WITHOUT A SOUND SYSTEM.... AND EVERYONE COULD HEAR HIM AT ONCE.


EITHER THE STORY IS FALSE, OR THEY DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO COUNT PROPERLY, OR THE HUMANS OF THAT TIME CAME WITH INBUILT AMPLIFIERS IN THEIR THROATS.

FOLYKAZE:


1 Corinthians 15:14-19 New International Version (NIV)

14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.

15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised.

16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either.

17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.

19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.


Paul was not convinced Jesus died or resurrected. He somewhat think his faith and hope is in vain and only hanging on a tiny rope called faith. Our Nigerian brother are chasing a criminal who was killed in faraway land for blasphemy and calling himself son of God. A coward son of God that couldn't take Satan head on since 6000yrs. It is 2000yrs after he died and Satam is still running the affair of fhe same world. What did he die for then?

I sometime wonder. The wages of sin is death. Jesus died for our sin.....that mean our sin have besn removed. Why then do we still die? It simply mean he didn't die and the whole story was concocted

Niflheim:
"My life has a great purpose!!!"................Says the South African christian, who eats grass like a goat!!!

tintingz:
Muslims thinks praying 5 times daily is meaningful but I call it obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD).

Imagine doing some repeated routine (rituals) that doesn't add anything to the economy and calling it a meaningful thing.

Neurotika:


How the bible hasn't been declared a children book of mythical stories still baffles me. Almost all the accounts of Jesus miracles were always witnessed by 'his disciples' or by anonymous people in anonymous events with no historical significance/proof.

Transfiguration had just three people present. But billions were made to believe what just three people claimed they witnessed.

He woke from the dead and decided to keep it low key by inviting less than 5 people to the tomb. Why will you spend over 30 years of your life trying to convince people you are their God yet is making your resurrection (which is meant to be the ultimate proof of your claim) a secret. Who would have doubted you if you had announced on the cross that everyone should be present at so so place at so so time to show to them truly you are what you are.

OK, maybe cos He's God and he doesn't need to prove anything to anyone. So what was the whole point behind wandering around and preaching the gospel with miracles all about?

Yet when the time to show everyone the real miracle, it was kept a secret. Lol. But then what do I know?

superhumanist:


All the 5 times they have been praying daily has not changed Nigeria from being a corrupt zoo.

What is the point of religion if it cannot improve the individual and his environment?

obisco4u:


Exactly! He died somewhere in the Middle East and then by some crazy means, someone in Africa or Asia is saved? in addition, Christains claim that his so called death and resurrection sets them free from sin. Yet all of them in their billions still struggle with sin everyday. How does it make sense?