This article about the juxtaposition of the two characters.

Odin was a character in the popular Thor movie trilogy, who is presented as a powerful and benevolent King.

But in part 3 of the trilogy a revelation was made by his first Child, Hela (Goddess of death). Before Odin became a benevolent king he was a ruthless warrior who went on to conquer and captured nine realms and also ruled over them. He later realised that his daughter's ambition is too strong and bent on destruction and banished her away, thereby turning to a loving and benevolent king which we all knew him as in part 1 & 2.

Reading arguments about Atheists and Christians on NL, most Atheists milk on the cruelty and miracles of God in the old testament, of which i find convincing though which in turn makes Christians here look stupid, because Christianity and working with God (e.g Abraham) is based on faith and believe with little or total absence of LOGIC.

Sarah attest to this in Gen 18 v 13.

Looking at the cruelty in the old testament, there was a need to protect his people from enemies and ensure survival of his people (Benue killings: A case study)

Back to Odin, and we can all see Almighty God in his infinite mercy in new testament willing to save his children's enemies and gentiles. In contrast to old testament, it was his apostles that were being persecuted.

OMNISCIENCE
Most Atheists here milk on this too, which is convincing too and illogical. How can an all knowing Almighty God let all these terrible things happened?

FREEWILL
How could God put a tree in garden of Eden, when he knew that the serpent will tempt Eve, and through that men will have freewill to choose between good and evil. That the forbidden fruit will bring so many atrocities to mankind. Arguing to defend all these will make one look stupid but Christianity believes all these through faith.


I am a Christian by birth and i identify with it and its GOSPELS are soothing to my soul.

How i wish we could forge ahead in Nigeria and identify with Christianity and forgo the absurdities surrounding doctrines and spirituality.

NB: I lost all my writings when my phone shutdown, and i lost most of my points.
I hope my ad-libbed composition is reasonable enough?

Booked for ads

Interesting. I have not watched Odin so just have to glean from the little of what you said here about him. But, i'm trying to connect the dots how Odin and YHWH relate in their dealings with their subjects.

From my understanding of why YHWH was seemingly cruel to the OT people, was to show to them what life is like without Him. And, When Christ eventually came, He shows to us how it is like to live in Him. Correct me if i'm wrong.

When you live outside of God, 'Rebellion to his rules', Life is cruel, but when you obey Him, it's heaven on earth.

But, Odin, according to the story was cruel. What fueled his benevolence later?

Anas09:
Interesting. I have not watched Odin so just have to glean from the little of what you said here about him. But, i'm trying to connect the dots how Odin and YHWH relate in their dealings with their subjects.

From my understanding of why YHWH was seemingly cruel to the OT people, was to show to them what life is like without Him. And, When Christ eventually came, He shows to us how it is like to live in Him. Correct me if i'm wrong.

When you live outside of God, 'Rebellion to his rules', Life is cruel, but when you obey Him, it's heaven on earth.

But, Odin, according to the story was cruel. What fueled his benevolence later?

It was briefly discussed in the movie because the storyline is not in tune with the ones in the comics.


Odin reveled in her skills and used her to his advantage during his rise to power.
But i think the turning point for Odin was when he became fearful of her ambition and willingness to kill (the more she kills, the more she become powerful), which means she might usurp him one day if she wasn't stopped.

oyetpel:



It was briefly discussed in the movie because the storyline is not in tune with the ones in the comics.


Odin reveled in her skills and used her to his advantage during his rise to power.
But i think the turning point for Odin was when he became fearful of her ambition and willingness to kill (the more she kills, the more she become powerful), which means she might usurp him one day if she wasn't stopped.

Oh, i see now.

Still, how do they connect with YHWH?

Anas09:
Oh, i see now.
Still, how do they connect with YHWH?

YHWH banished Lucifer, am i right?

oyetpel:


YHWH banished Lucifer, am i right?

Yeah, very right.
But, i thought you talked about the God of the Old Testament and Jesus of the New Testament. I didn't see how Lucifer fit in.

Anas09:

Yeah, very right.
But, i thought you talked about the God of the Old Testament and Jesus of the New Testament. I didn't see how Lucifer fit in.

Lucifer wanted to overthrow God, so God banished him.

This cause the downfall of men, cos lucifer made men sin.

The mess which sin brought to the world contributed to the wrath and cruelty of YHWH in old testament.

But my question is, how could an omniscience God not know all these will happen? From being betrayed by Lucifer, to erecting a forbidden tree in Eden, when he should have known that the serpent will deceive Eve and Adam into eating from the tree.

oyetpel:



It was briefly discussed in the movie because the storyline is not in tune with the ones in the comics.


Odin reveled in her skills and used her to his advantage during his rise to power.
But i think the turning point for Odin was when he became fearful of her ambition and willingness to kill (the more she kills, the more she become powerful), which means she might usurp him one day if she wasn't stopped.

Sounds like, "I am a jealous God....." , correct?

oyetpel:


Lucifer wanted to overthrow God, so God banished him.

This cause the downfall of men, cos lucifer made men sin.

The mess which sin brought to the world contributed to the wrath and cruelty of YHWH in old testament.

But my question is, how could an omniscience God not know all these will happen? From being betrayed by Lucifer, to erecting a forbidden tree in Eden, when he should have known that the serpent will deceive Eve and Adam into eating from the tree.

I have an answer to this, but that will derail this thread because, this thread is about the similarities between Odin and YHWH. But, if you won't mind derailing the thread, give me the go ahead to continue.

Anas09:

I have an answer to this, but that will derail this thread because, this thread is about the similarities between Odin and YHWH. But, if you won't mind derailing the thread, give me the go ahead to continue.

proceed, its me and you in this thread, nobody else.

oyetpel:


proceed, its me and you in this thread, nobody else.

Lolzzzz. Okay. Let me excuse myself this nite as i have an early day later today.

Let's do this tomorrow okay?

Good nite.

oyetpel:


Lucifer wanted to overthrow God, so God banished him.

This cause the downfall of men, cos lucifer made men sin.

The mess which sin brought to the world contributed to the wrath and cruelty of YHWH in old testament.

But my question is, how could an omniscience God not know all these will happen? From being betrayed by Lucifer, to erecting a forbidden tree in Eden, when he should have known that the serpent will deceive Eve and Adam into eating from the tree.

Lol, Their answer would be "Freewill" which makes no sense as its incompatible with an omniscient omnipotent creator of all things

The "omniscient" Yahweh is something that got added on in Christianity, it was not part of Judaism.

Look throughout the Old Testament- Adam and Eve hid from Yahweh, Yahweh did not know if Lot would find good people in Sodom or not, Yahweh did not know if Job would keep the faith after being tortured, Yahweh flooded the world and then regretted his decision.

Yahweh was a being identical to Zeus, Odin, Ra, etc. A powerful supernatural man, but very much still a man, with the flaws of a man.


Christians say Yahweh gave freewill so we can chose whether to obey or not to obey him and that we would've been robots without freewill which prompts the question about whether it exists in the afterlife. Either option presents problems.

1.) We have free will in Heaven. This implies that Yahweh is capable of creating an absolute eternal paradise completely free of evil AND has constructed a means by which beings maintain free will in that state of being. Thus the argument that we have free will in our lives on Earth so that we can choose between good and evil falls flat, as Yahweh is capable of allowing free will without evil.

2.) We have no free will in Heaven. This implies that Yahweh cared so much about people's free will that he created our short temporary lives so that we would have the chance to excercise it, but then opted that we should spend eternity after without free will, which makes the time we spent excercising it seem rather pointless. If he valued it so highly in humans, why is it not a part of human paradise?


as a side note, when Yahweh told Adam and Eve that if they eat off the tree of knowledge they would know of death. How can they know what he said about the threat of death if they didn't know what death was yet because they have not eaten off the tree yet to know?

oyetpel:


proceed, its me and you in this thread, nobody else.

The answer is CONTROL, Character development. Having enormous power and being in control of it.

In three words 'POWER under CONTROL.

YHWH, till today is still teaching man control. Is still teaching us how to handle ourselves and not get carried away and missuse the power given to us.
That is why Self control is one of the fruits of the Spirit.

God had created Adam last after creating everything else, Adam only arrived to take dominion, absolute power and author to decide what shd or shd not be.

[b]'And the Lord said, let us make man and 'LET THEM HAVE DOMINION, POWER, AUTHORITY....Gen1:26.
This speaks of absolute power to do as one pleases without any external interference.

Gen 2:19b.
'And the Lord God brought them to Adam to see what he shall name them, and whatever name he called them, those were their names.

The Power of Choice comes to play here. What you choose to do with the power under your control will heavily lie on you. Some many have been given enormous power and authority, but without character, the power which should have helped them, destroyed them.

Adam was created an adult, ready to start his own family, but without character development, how will he know to raise his own Children with character? Remember, he was created not to be a god, but human. He was created to live i dependent. To have choices to choose whether or not to do something.

God created Adam for FELLOWSHIP. Fellowship comes with commitment, which is maintaining a relationship with who you are in a relationship with.

Every thing both physical and Spiritual operates on rules, so also this relationship which God intended to have with His Creation Adam. Adam's commitment to that relationship would teach him to develop and sustain same relationship with his children which he was to have.

God intended for Adam to learn how to raise a family, how to be committed to his family (Children), by how both of them fellowships and relates to each other.

Give a child power, let him be free, but if you don't teach him to have control over the power in his hands, the power will destroy him.

So many people will tell you that Adam ate a fruit hence, fell from Grace. But let's look at what Adam did, or what Lucifer did through Adam.

First off, let's not loose sight of the fact that, God created Adam human, although he had a spirit, but he ultimately intended for Adam to be human living and functioning in the flesh. The only time his spirit self comes to play is when he fellowships with his God who is a spirit.
But, we see Lucifer saying to Eve, you'll be like God. You'll become divine. Knowledge will give you wisdom that will raise you above humanity to the realm of divinity and you'd be like God.

Now, what do you think that means? Adam was abandon being human and begin fighting to usurp the Sovereignty of God.

God does not share his Sovereignty with His creation. Lucifer tried it, and got flung out of heaven, he saw the object of YHWH love and admiration, he sort to thwart their fellowship. He succeeded, but for a time.

T.B.C.

Anas09:

The answer is CONTROL, Character development. Having enormous power and being in control of it.

In three words 'POWER under CONTROL.

YHWH, till today is still teaching man control. Is still teaching us how to handle ourselves and not get carried away and missuse the power given to us.
That is why Self control is one of the fruits of the Spirit.

God had created Adam last after creating everything else, Adam only arrived to take dominion, absolute power and author to decide what shd or shd not be.

[b]'And the Lord said, let us make man and 'LET THEM HAVE DOMINION, POWER, AUTHORITY....Gen1:26.
This speaks of absolute power to do as one pleases without any external interference.

Gen 2:19b.
'And the Lord God brought them to Adam to see what he shall name them, and whatever name he called them, those were their names.

The Power of Choice comes to play here. What you choose to do with the power under your control will heavily lie on you. Some many have been given enormous power and authority, but without character, the power which should have helped them, destroyed them.

Adam was created an adult, ready to start his own family, but without character development, how will he know to raise his own Children with character? Remember, he was created not to be a god, but human. He was created to live i dependent. To have choices to choose whether or not to do something.

God created Adam for FELLOWSHIP. Fellowship comes with commitment, which is maintaining a relationship with who you are in a relationship with.

Every thing both physical and Spiritual operates on rules, so also this relationship which God intended to have with His Creation Adam. Adam's commitment to that relationship would teach him to develop and sustain same relationship with his children which he was to have.

God intended for Adam to learn how to raise a family, how to be committed to his family (Children), by how both of them fellowships and relates to each other.

Give a child power, let him be free, but if you don't teach him to have control over the power in his hands, the power will destroy him.

So many people will tell you that Adam ate a fruit hence, fell from Grace. But let's look at what Adam did, or what Lucifer did through Adam.

First off, let's not loose sight of the fact that, God created Adam human, although he had a spirit, but he ultimately intended for Adam to be human living and functioning in the flesh. The only time his spirit self comes to play is when he fellowships with his God who is a spirit.
But, we see Lucifer saying to Eve, you'll be like God. You'll become divine. Knowledge will give you wisdom that will raise you above humanity to the realm of divinity and you'd be like God.

Now, what do you think that means? Adam was abandon being human and begin fighting to usurp the Sovereignty of God.

God does not share his Sovereignty with His creation. Lucifer tried it, and got flung out of heaven, he saw the object of YHWH love and admiration, he sort to thwart their fellowship. He succeeded, but for a time.

T.B.C.

Ok, thanks for this.

But it still boils down to God being Omniscient.

If you buy petrol will you put it in your Kitchen knowing what the result will be?

YHWH should have shielded Adam away from the interference of Lucifer.

He knew what will happen (Job 1:6-10), so why didn't he save his precious creation from the beginning of time?

CONT...

God saw Lucifer coming. He knew what will happen, but He left it for Adam to choose Him with Love and for Love. You can force a man to obey you, but you can't force a man to love you.

He knows how Love works. Love can not be forced or imposed. Love comes from he who gives it, not he who demands it. I can obey you without loving you, but i can't Love you without obeying you, honouring, respecting what you hold dear, its basic.

He left Adam to choose Him out the love they shared, the family and relationship they had built, but Adam choose Lucifer, hence he got lost along with Lucifer, for a time.


You and i knows that Obedience is not complete except there's room to disobey. There must be an option, a way out, a decision to make either or not to take the bait.

If God created Adam and gave him that absolute power to control everything, eat everything, but, point him to the object of his fall, and says, 'You can do as you please with everything but THAT', but removes it beyond his reach, Adam would be curious as to what that is and what it does, but since it's beyond his reach, he won't have power over it and won't touch it.

Not touching it is not a choice, it's forced. That will not be termed Obedience on his part.

Obedience is when you're instructed not to touch a thing, but that thing is within your reach, you have access to it, you're curious about it, you are tempted to touch it. No one is watching you. You are left to be the supervisor of your actions, but you walk away not touching it.
THAT MY FRIEND IS POWER UNDER CONTROL. That is Character. THAT IS TRUST.

A powerful man is a man who has absolute power to do any and everything, but chooses not to.

From Adam to You, God has been teaching us Control, Trust, manners. He had commanded for us to have Children (Children, not robots) fill the earth with them. But Without character, how do we intend to live together and be happy and not kill ourselves?

God does not want us to love Him by force or out of fear. He does not want us to Love Him because of What He can give to us, that's why even when He knows your needs, he says 'ask'. When you ask, He says 'Wait', be patient. learn control, learn character, learn integrity, learn LOVE most of all. Learn to do all these in LOVE.

He does not want us to love Him out of fear of what He can do to us, that's why Hopefullandlord can afford to insult Him, Seun can malign Him, Frank can call Him a fool for not striking him dead immediately, but decided to give them all the time till the end.

You don't know what power means until you can imagine how God feels to see the evil that men commit on earth, but holds still, because he had determined that it is at the end that judgment will be. That is control, that is real power.

Adam jumped classes and became a renegade to the Camp of the enemy where Character doesn't count. Were things are done the opposite of how they are done in the kingdom which was handed over to him to control and take dominion.

A camp where you force yourself to get power to do and undo. If you have that fleeting power and don't use it, you are termed an invalid and a weakling. A camp where character is termed weakness. Integrity is non existent.

see the outcome of that in the lives of Adam's offspring. See what lack of Character is doing to humanity.

CHARACTER COUNTS, CONTROL IS POWER.

oyetpel:


Ok, thanks for this.

But it still boils down to God being Omniscient.

If you buy petrol will you put it in your Kitchen knowing what the result will be?

YHWH should have shielded Adam away from the interference of Lucifer.

He knew what will happen (Job 1:6-10), so why didn't he save his precious creation from the beginning of time?

How then will Adam learn Character?

How will he learn so that he can teach his own Children?

He wasn't created to be remote controlled.

If at 40 your father is still protecting you from fire, my dear...

hopefulLandlord:



as a side note, when Yahweh told Adam and Eve that if they eat off the tree of knowledge they would know of death. How can they know what he said about the threat of death if they didn't know what death was yet because they have not eaten off the tree yet to know?

Duh, animals were dying, weren't they?

hopefulLandlord:
Lol, Their answer would be "Freewill" which makes no sense as its incompatible with an omniscient omnipotent creator of all things

The "omniscient" Yahweh is something that got added on in Christianity, it was not part of Judaism.

Look throughout the Old Testament- Adam and Eve hid from Yahweh, Yahweh did not know if Lot would find good people in Sodom or not, Yahweh did not know if Job would keep the faith after being tortured, Yahweh flooded the world and then regretted his decision.

Yahweh was a being identical to Zeus, Odin, Ra, etc. A powerful supernatural man, but very much still a man, with the flaws of a man.


Christians say Yahweh gave freewill so we can chose whether to obey or not to obey him and that we would've been robots without freewill which prompts the question about whether it exists in the afterlife. Either option presents problems.

1.) We have free will in Heaven. This implies that Yahweh is capable of creating an absolute eternal paradise completely free of evil AND has constructed a means by which beings maintain free will in that state of being. Thus the argument that we have free will in our lives on Earth so that we can choose between good and evil falls flat, as Yahweh is capable of allowing free will without evil.

2.) We have no free will in Heaven. This implies that Yahweh cared so much about people's free will that he created our short temporary lives so that we would have the chance to excercise it, but then opted that we should spend eternity after without free will, which makes the time we spent excercising it seem rather pointless. If he valued it so highly in humans, why is it not a part of human paradise?


as a side note, when Yahweh told Adam and Eve that if they eat off the tree of knowledge they would know of death. How can they know what he said about the threat of death if they didn't know what death was yet because they have not eaten off the tree yet to know?

Image123:
Duh, animals were dying, weren't they?

Please what were animals dying of and/or from?
Animals were dying of what please?

MuttleyLaff:

Please what were animals dying of and/or from? Animals were dying of what please?

Errrrrmmmmm, of being eaten as food?

Anas09:

How then will Adam learn Character?

How will he learn so that he can teach his own Children?

He wasn't created to be remote controlled.

If at 40 your father is still protecting you from fire, my dear...

Was YHWH setting him off to suffer by putting the forbidden tree in Eden?

You talk about Adam not created to be controlled,

But Adam had everything on a platter of gold (Gen 1:28-30).

YHWH, according to you now made Adam fail by 'putting petrol in the kitchen to blow the whole house'.

Character development
Adam was cursed (Gen 3:17-19)

If Adam hadn't eating the fruit he would have grew up fat without working because he was given all he wanted.
Then YHWH had planted a petrol in the kitchen all the way.

hopefulLandlord:
Lol, Their answer would be "Freewill" which makes no sense as its incompatible with an omniscient omnipotent creator of all things

The "omniscient" Yahweh is something that got added on in Christianity, it was not part of Judaism.

Look throughout the Old Testament- Adam and Eve hid from Yahweh, Yahweh did not know if Lot would find good people in Sodom or not, Yahweh did not know if Job would keep the faith after being tortured, Yahweh flooded the world and then regretted his decision.

Yahweh was a being identical to Zeus, Odin, Ra, etc. A powerful supernatural man, but very much still a man, with the flaws of a man.

Christians say Yahweh gave freewill so we can chose whether to obey or not to obey him and that we would've been robots without freewill which prompts the question about whether it exists in the afterlife. Either option presents problems.

1.) We have free will in Heaven. This implies that Yahweh is capable of creating an absolute eternal paradise completely free of evil AND has constructed a means by which beings maintain free will in that state of being. Thus the argument that we have free will in our lives on Earth so that we can choose between good and evil falls flat, as Yahweh is capable of allowing free will without evil.

2.) We have no free will in Heaven. This implies that Yahweh cared so much about people's free will that he created our short temporary lives so that we would have the chance to excercise it, but then opted that we should spend eternity after without free will, which makes the time we spent excercising it seem rather pointless. If he valued it so highly in humans, why is it not a part of human paradise?
as a side note, when Yahweh told Adam and Eve that if they eat off the tree of knowledge they would know of death.
How can they know what he said about the threat of death if they didn't know what death was yet because they have not eaten off the tree yet to know?

Image123:
Duh, animals were dying, weren't they?

Please what were animals dying of and/or from?
Animals were dying of what please?

MuttleyLaff:
Please what were animals dying of and/or from?
Animals were dying of what please?

Image123:
Errrrrmmmmm, of being eaten as food?

And God said,
Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth,
and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed;
to you it shall be for meat (i.e. it shall be food for you)
- Genesis 1:29

Errrrrmmmmm, is your "Errrrrmmmmm, of being eaten as food" before or after Genesis 1:29 was relegated?
Why and when the animals become dying from being eaten as food?

Instead of you to correct hopefulLandlord's gaffe, you're allowing him to take you down a rabbit trail with him
One doesnt first have to eat off the TofKofG&E before knowing what death is
Knowledge of something comes in different styles, shades, shapes and forms

MuttleyLaff:


Please what were animals dying of and/or from?
Animals were dying of what please?



And God said,
Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth,
and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed;
to you it shall be for meat (i.e. it shall be food for you)
- Genesis 1:29

Errrrrmmmmm, is your "Errrrrmmmmm, of being eaten as food" before or after Genesis 1:29 was relegated?
Why and when the animals become dying from being eaten as food?

Instead of you to correct hopefulLandlord's gaffe, you're allowing him to take you down a rabbit trail with him
One doesnt first have to eat off the TofKofG&E before knowing what death is
Knowledge of something comes in different styles, shades, shapes and forms

Oh my God, not again. I'm just not expecting this from you; The part where you ask babyish questions, and the part where you assume some atheist is taking me anywhere. If he dreams that, he should wake up from his nightmare. Errrrrrmmmmmmm, man was given dominion over all animals, and whatever he called them was their name. It's a most ridiculous thing to suggest that Adam's fall led to carnivores and omnivores. The food chain has been long set from the foundation of the world. It's innate, all the body parts show it. It was not a diversion or improvisation.
When did God command Abel to kill animals?

Image123:

It's a most ridiculous thing to suggest that Adam's fall led to carnivores and omnivores. The food chain has been long set from the foundation of the world. It's innate, all the body parts show it. It was not a diversion or improvisation.
When did God command Abel to kill animals?

I'm sorry, but I too have an interest in the question you were asked as there is nothing to indicate that Adam and Eve ate animals, and way much more to the contrary.

Your above though points down another trail. If it is "a most ridiculous thing to suggest that Adam's fall led to carnivores and omnivores", isn't it even more ridiculous to claim eating the FTKGE introduced death into the world, or sin? (I know this is not a claim you are making, so ignore it while you deal with your more substantial claim, if you may.)

Image123:
Oh my God, not again.
I'm just not expecting this from you;

You're wrongly granting yourself unmerited victim status here

Image123:
The part where you ask babyish questions

when Yahweh told Adam and Eve that
if they eat off the tree of knowledge they would know of death.
How can they know what he said about the threat of death
if they didn't know what death was yet
because they have not eaten off the tree yet to know
- © hopefulLandlord

Duh, animals were dying, weren't they?
- © Image123

Errrrrrmmmmmmm, let's wind the clock back a bit
Read again, above, your inane response to hopefulLandlord's

Image123:
and the part where you assume some atheist is taking me anywhere.
If he dreams that, he should wake up from his nightmare

Abeggy park whomever or whatever is an atheist, for one side
Instead of taking pot shots at the player, focus your attention on the game and pieces on the board.

Now why didnt you correct him?
Why didnt you point out that, one doesnt first, have to eat off the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil before one knows what death is?

Image123:
Errrrrrmmmmmmm, man was given dominion over all animals, and whatever he called them was their name.
It's a most ridiculous thing to suggest that Adam's fall led to carnivores and omnivores

SMH.
Feel free bask in ignorance, as I am willing to let an incredibly uninformed remark like this, go unchallenged.

Image123:
The food chain has been long set from the foundation of the world.
It's innate, all the body parts show it.

The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,
and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock:
and dust shall be the serpent's meat.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
- Isaiah 65:25

Will the food chain's predator and the prey state of affairs, ever stop then?
Will the food chain's predator and the prey state of affairs, ever come to an end?
When the predator and the prey innate capacity is disrupted, what is going to happen to the food chain?

How exposed are you to the meaning of the word "Activation" considered together with predator and the prey in mind?
I know, you know where I am heading to with the activation question.

Image123:
It was not a diversion or improvisation

The difference between God and a good chess player, that at least, thinks five moves, ahead
is that, instead of five moves, God analyses right from the first move straight through on to the end of the checkmating last move
That is part of how God with good algorithmic solutions, knows the end from the beginning.

So you're right, its not a matter of diversion or improvisation but it's a matter of standbys
Things had been put in place, were set on standby, waiting, ready for certain things in them to come alive and start doing things
This means, were on their marks, set, and ready to be used at the appropriate time, like, in a case of, if or when, the proverbial stuff hits the fan

Image123:
When did God command Abel to kill animals?

So Abel has a precedent.
It is blindingly obvious, who from, Abel learned all Abel knows
God didnt need to command Abel to kill animals
because someone that witnessed it firsthand, told Abel about when, where, why and how the first animal got killed

Anas09:
CONT...

God saw Lucifer coming. He knew what will happen, but He left it for Adam to choose Him with Love and for Love. You can force a man to obey you, but you can't force a man to love you.

He knows how Love works. Love can not be forced or imposed. Love comes from he who gives it, not he who demands it. I can obey you without loving you, but i can't Love you without obeying you, honouring, respecting what you hold dear, its basic.

He left Adam to choose Him out the love they shared, the family and relationship they had built, but Adam choose Lucifer, hence he got lost along with Lucifer, for a time.


You and i knows that Obedience is not complete except there's room to disobey. There must be an option, a way out, a decision to make either or not to take the bait.

If God created Adam and gave him that absolute power to control everything, eat everything, but, point him to the object of his fall, and says, 'You can do as you please with everything but THAT', but removes it beyond his reach, Adam would be curious as to what that is and what it does, but since it's beyond his reach, he won't have power over it and won't touch it.

Not touching it is not a choice, it's forced. That will not be termed Obedience on his part.

Obedience is when you're instructed not to touch a thing, but that thing is within your reach, you have access to it, you're curious about it, you are tempted to touch it. No one is watching you. You are left to be the supervisor of your actions, but you walk away not touching it.
THAT MY FRIEND IS POWER UNDER CONTROL. That is Character. THAT IS TRUST.

A powerful man is a man who has absolute power to do any and everything, but chooses not to.

From Adam to You, God has been teaching us Control, Trust, manners. He had commanded for us to have Children (Children, not robots) fill the earth with them. But Without character, how do we intend to live together and be happy and not kill ourselves?

God does not want us to love Him by force or out of fear. He does not want us to Love Him because of What He can give to us, that's why even when He knows your needs, he says 'ask'. When you ask, He says 'Wait', be patient. learn control, learn character, learn integrity, learn LOVE most of all. Learn to do all these in LOVE.

He does not want us to love Him out of fear of what He can do to us, that's why Hopefullandlord can afford to insult Him, Seun can malign Him, Frank can call Him a fool for not striking him dead immediately, but decided to give them all the time till the end.

You don't know what power means until you can imagine how God feels to see the evil that men commit on earth, but holds still, because he had determined that it is at the end that judgment will be. That is control, that is real power.

Adam jumped classes and became a renegade to the Camp of the enemy where Character doesn't count. Were things are done the opposite of how they are done in the kingdom which was handed over to him to control and take dominion.

A camp where you force yourself to get power to do and undo. If you have that fleeting power and don't use it, you are termed an invalid and a weakling. A camp where character is termed weakness. Integrity is non existent.

see the outcome of that in the lives of Adam's offspring. See what lack of Character is doing to humanity.

CHARACTER COUNTS, CONTROL IS POWER.

why was Lucifer created?

Gggg102:
why was Lucifer created?

"Worthy are You, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power;
for You created all things,
and because of Your will, they existed and were created."
- Revelation 4:11

Created because of the God prerogative

MuttleyLaff:
"Worthy are You, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power;
for You created all things,
and because of Your will, they existed and were created."
- Revelation 4:11

Created because of the God prerogative

won't hell, evil... be inexisting if he hadn't created Lucifer in the first place?

Gggg102:
won't hell, evil... be inexisting if he hadn't created Lucifer in the first place?

He will wipe every tear from their eyes.
There will be no more death
or mourning, or crying, or pain,
for the old order of things has passed away
- Revelation 21:4

"The End", ni opin cinema
Revelation 21:4 is testament to the saying, that the end justifies the means

Even against the odds, Lucifer, just as much like you too, has the right to be created
We should never shy away from challenges
Problems like evil, which is a result of sin are to be face up to and dealt with, without making excuses
Sin is the sting that results in death,
the sting aside being injurious and/or lethal injects a venom that also opens up a pandora box teeming with great and unexpected troubles

I am not about making up what the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil means.
The original word used in that verse instead of Good in the original text was "Beautiful"
and the original word used in that verse and elsewhere it's used in the original text was "Adversity"

Are you familiar with merisms?
Merism, is a figure of speech that has a combination of two contrasting words to refer to an entirety and all parts within each of them

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" is a merism
"Good evening ladies and gentlemen" is a merism

Well, the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil figure of speech, is a merism.

Good, in that context, is translated from a word, that means and typifies "Beautiful"
Evil, in that context, is translated from a word, that means and typifies "Adversity".

"Beautiful", as in, everything dandy and good
"Adversity", as in, every hardship, bad and ugly difficult or unpleasant situation that possibly can happen.

Eating off the tree, will open the eater to experience several of parts of all that's "Beautiful" and all that's "Adversity"
Eater will experience and begin to judge between beautiful and adversity.
Good times, bad times, what's pretty, what's ugly.
Essentially the whole shebang spectrum will unfold into the eater's world.

Eating off the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil,
will open the eater to experience several of parts of all that's "Beautiful" and all that's "Adversity"
As said earlier, the Adversity other side, is, as it were, like opening a Pandora Box, of some sort.

Gggg102:



why was Lucifer created?

Pick your Bible. Do you have one? If yes, open to Ezekiel 28 start reading from verse 13 to 19, You'd see that Lucifer was a Cherub which covered the throne of the Most High. Who also was the Choir leader in Heaven.
He thought his place was indispensable, because God loves Music and he was there to make it happen.

He thought, I can also be God and sit while some folks sing for me.

For this, read Isaiah 14 from 9 to 17.

oyetpel:

Was YHWH setting him off to suffer by putting the forbidden tree in Eden?

When you send off your Son to Nursery School at the age of 2 till he graduates from the University at the age at which that happens, were you setting him up for punishment? Were all the tests and examination that he was made to write punishments to him?

oyetpel:

You talk about Adam not created to be controlled,

But Adam had everything on a platter of gold (Gen 1:28-30).

Is having everything on a platter of gold a tool for control?

The problem in man still persist till today. Adam in you speaking right now still feels he is right to do as he please. He is not remorseful for rebelling.

Are you saying your Father has no right to give 99℅ of his inheritance but prevents you from 1%?

Must you get 100℅ of his inheritance?

If Adam was given 1% out of 99% it will make sense for Adam to revolt, even when he has no such rights. But, he was given 99%, but greed won't let him obey his maker to leave 1% which was kept from him alone.

oyetpel:

YHWH, according to you now made Adam fail by 'putting petrol in the kitchen to blow the whole house'.
[quote author=oyetpel post=67074537]
Character development
Adam was cursed (Gen 3:17-19)

You mean Adam did well Character-wise, but was cursed for it?
Lolz, the only one cursed in that account is the serpent. Neither was Adam of Eve cursed. Read that passage again. God couldn't curse himself. If you curse your son, you curse yourself.

oyetpel:

If Adam hadn't eating the fruit he would have grew up fat without working because he was given all he wanted.

Ponder on the bolded very carefully, You are not really seeing that Adam messed up, you'd rather put the blame on God for denying Adam 1% Out of 99%. Just like Adam blamed God for giving him a wife, without which, he'd not have eaten the fruit, and Eve the serpent which beguiled her, You are here blaming God for Adams rebellion without taking into consideration that Adam had a responsibility to his creator.
You still don't own up to any wrong doing, that is why you can not accept the gift of Salvation Jesus is offering freely. The Adam in you is still revolting and saying 'I did nothing wrong that warrants pardon'.

You want to live, eat, grow fat and useless to yourself and irresponsible abi? Well, God didn't intend it that way. and you and i can not tell him what he should do with his creation and how he shd pattern it.

He didn't create the Earth for us do as we please. This is his earth, He makes the rules and calls the shots. You don't like it? Then go and create your own world after you have stood to account for how you lived on his own earth.

oyetpel:

Then YHWH had planted a petrol in the kitchen all the way.

Would you had preferred that God created Adam a robot?

Why do you give your children rules to abide by? Why not leave them to live, eat and grow fat without learning to become anything for themselves?

budaatum:

I'm sorry, but I too have an interest in the question you were asked as there is nothing to indicate that Adam and Eve ate animals, and way much more to the contrary.

Your above though points down another trail. If it is "a most ridiculous thing to suggest that Adam's fall led to carnivores and omnivores", isn't it even more ridiculous to claim eating the FTKGE introduced death into the world, or sin? (I know this is not a claim you are making, so ignore it while you deal with your more substantial claim, if you may.)

Nothing for you to be sorry about, it's a forum. The very fact that man was given dominion and right to subdue is clear indication man could do as he pleased with them as regards feeding. The context of the passage was feeding and the next verse is clear on that.
If one understands the death spoken of as regards FTKGE, it makes good sense.