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Stats: 2,259,126 members, 4,942,293 topics. Date: Friday, 24 May 2019 at 11:07 PM
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by 0balufonlll: 3:28pm On Aug 23, 2018|
Lol I see you are getting riled up.
With your every post, your status as a neophyte looking for NL relevance seeps through. Those who know what a research is can tell you are barely read & rely heavily on imaginative composition as well as non peer reviewed internet sources. . On Yoruba language & history alone I can guess you have less than 5 paperback books in your library
While you agree that Yoruba was given a writing template in the recent century using Oyo dialect as the yardstick, you also in the same breath claimed there is/was no standard Yoruba dialect. Isn’t that contradictory to you? Do you see your lack of ability for critical analysis yet you mouth off about conducting research ? I won’t fault you though, your peak of research is at Master’s level at best & you can be excused for gaffing, you haven’t passed through the fire yet.
Let me school you, Oyo had the largest geographical area & largest population of speakers, to an extent it was the standard dialect take it or leave it. Crowther worked within this purview BUT the diacritic cuts across all accents be it North, East, South, West of Yoruba. Accents are applied the same and works the same. So just admit your knowledge of Yoruba language is zero rather than try to portray an absent image of your own knowledge.
Using ‘do’ sound on every Yoruba word & claiming to know Hebrew .
Mr. Olu the researcher, e ku ishe.
P.S: you have not made reference to any worthy scholar on your Hebrew theory other than one Olumide Lucas or so. I bet you didn’t even know the man was neither a Linguist nor an Ethnologist, he was graduate of theology.
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 6:28pm On Aug 23, 2018|
0balufonlll:Open your eyes very well bro from deceptive knowledge being taught to you that is already archaic in the modern world
Who told you Iam inventive?Lmao! You see ,every time, you people always run away from the germane issue because the Yoruba history is bigger than you all....
.So, deal with it .
Using, The ‘do' sound is because it is applicable to the most words I use to differentiate it from others. Instead of condemning, appreciate it because so many word are formed with the same letters but differs when pronounced in its accents,which is the reason you see them accented . Beside, you have never done anything close to accenting Yoruba words for non Yoruba to understand what you have sent online.
Like I had mentioned earlier, Yoruba history is bigger than you and Samuel Johnson's account was the basis for deeper research from the indigenous angle.
As usual, you have defined someone you have never met before from your perspective ,the same as others like you did and do to shield themselves.
Lord have mercy oooo! What is all this about someone's biography if he was this or that?
Oh k oo Oga linguist or ethnologist,I hear you. But mind you, there is noone alive or dead that can categorically claimed the exact spot where Yoruba came from through human fossil record, because science has record of all these. So keep your opinion to yourself if you don't have scholarly researched works or books to defend your case,then your view is null and void.
Lastly, NL is a place where information is a piece meal bro even if I share my vast research on it . Funny enough I am in a sizeable Yoruba groups with impeccable characters.
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by 0balufonlll: 7:02pm On Aug 23, 2018|
You have missed the point. It is you who has presented a hypothesis, it is you who has to come with literatures.
Olumide Lucas’ work has been torn in shreds by several researchers, in the academia the man’s work is regarded as ‘rubbish’.
Here’s a review I spedicially downloaded today with my Jstor account for you to read if you have time/interest:
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by OlaoChi: 11:33pm On Aug 23, 2018|
I guess I'm out of this world then
I hope you know nairaland doesn't pay you for posting? So this is hustle miss road
If selling books wasn't successful how is posting on nairaland better? But what's my business, it's your hustle
But nairaland audience will still ask for evidence
Banji Akintoye is one who has stated a Yoruba culture is local west African one.
But that's not the point, because stating and claims aren't good enough, evidence is the real deal and there is enough of it.
historians do not have the material that goes that far back in time but linguists do, in that regard take this up with linguists of all universities of the world who categorize Yoruba, Edo and Igbo as members of a close common language family
You are loud on Hebrew origin, if you also propagate mixing from many different cultures then you just made your work more difficult because you will need to prove all of them
Claims are not evidence mr. Man.
Show us the findings once and for all
Like I have shown anybody can claim Yoruba came from anywhere. I can list 5 words in any language that are similar to 5 words in Yoruba and boom! Yoruba descended from them
There is nothing special in finding a few words that are written similarly or sound similar. What about the etymology? And how much of such word similarity exist?
You ignore the fact that the Hebrews have good record of their history and never is it recorded that a group migrated into west Africa. You forget that Hebrew language itself is not just a collection of words, there is Grammer, verbal conjugation, gender of words, sentence structure, plural Forms etc
All which have no correlation with Yoruba language
Even the similar words pattern you stick to is flawed because you would need more than just a few words, at least 20% of the entire lexicon of both languages
this man is a clown
Who does not know the Japanese are Asians? Is that suppose to make you look smart? You wish I know Japanese are Asians? Lmao
My point for bringing up the Japanese is to show you how stupid it is to claim Hebrew origin as anybody can claim foreign origin using just few similar words
English - Yoruba
Wore - Wo
Iron - Irin
Concern/connect - Kan
For - fun
Our - awa
Inner - Inu
In - ninu
Mizu (Japanese for water) has nothing to do with Mahyeem(Hebrew for water)
The part I put in bold is just off, makes no sense
I can't believe you are trying to claim Japanese are Hebrew because I posted som Japanese words similar to Yoruba
Are the Anglo-Saxon and Normans Hebrews too?
nothing to say here, I can't take these seriously. Igbo Akkadian??
And why are you calling igbo my language? Funny clown
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 5:53am On Aug 24, 2018|
Continue ......Being studious is all you need to see through. In as much as you don't have knowledge of these middle east knowledge or Asia History, then I rest my case on you because as I had said earlier, go study to counter me.
Ferdinand de Saussure, says,‘the surest way to prove a cultural contact between peoples is to adduce linguistic evidence (Ferdinand de Saussure (1972) General HISTORY OF Africa).Olodo like you, Kindly engage a linguist to explain to you on how to match two words to see if they are related or not. Honestly, keep trying and you will get there. So with your seriousness ,you didnt know the modern spoken Hebrew you picked up as water developed in phases from the ‘mem' , probably from the word mayim meaning "water." The word MAYIM is the plural form of
‘MAH', . The spoken language in Israel during Jesus Christ time were three languages(Aramaic Roman-Greek) after the extinction of original Hebrew language. . How many times do you even know Israel was occupied by other powerful kingdoms after the fall of ancient Israel? Lord have mercy on this young man and his school of thought .So you didnt know the Hellenistic revolt? , This was what led to the influence of Roman- Greek that became the spoken after the rest of Israel were taken as slaves.
I thank God that DNA tests have been done severally on all the human fossil discovered by scientists and the near time of existence has no link to Nigeria either in the past or present day . Go figure this out and learn more about the human species; Homo sapiens, Homo naledi, Homo heidelbergensis,Neanderthals and Denisovans.
So you didn't know that English language borrowed many words and anglicised them ? Go learn about the history of the English language and how other languages influenced her's
....Henceforth no time for you because you are a distraction. I have nothing to proof to you but you will keep seeing information on NL to LEARN FROM ME,the reason being that without me opening your mindset to these things, you could hardly know.... As you can see , I am making you to study
On a final note,I dont want to engage you on irrelevant issue oooo Oga anymore except you bring something tangible or you reference researchers work. Ordinarily I would have posted the ancient Hebrew lexicon and the developmental phases but I won't because I want you to spend your resource; be it monetary or time on research.
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 7:03am On Aug 24, 2018|
To the people who aren't knowledgeable beyond the territorial Yoruba enclave in Nigeria, should try to read more on Egyptian Pharaohs or do research on them. Ranging from the period of King Hezekiah of Juda ,when he sent troop to fight on behalf of Egyptians,the era of King Josiah of Judah, who was killed through the injury he sustained via the arrow shot at him in Meggido, The Babylonian conquest of Egypt, Alexander conquest,Roman conquest of Egypt and who the Hykos Pharaohs were. So as to see why there were presence of ancient Egyptian lexicon's presence in Yoruba's....
I had to do this because I don't cherish just opinion from some anti reality set of people that their world is centred in one area that has a dead end but kindly back your fanciful views hinged on researchers work...
To the do or die Yorubas on NL,who keep thinking aboriginal status of Yorubas in Nigeria as the oldest. I will always mock your ignorance because , Sorry ,I am here to disappoint you again and again that, Ibos' ( south eastern people)existed in Nigeria,also older and predated Yoruba's....
HOW IS IBOLAND IN EASTERN PART OF NIGERIA OLDER THAN YORUBA'S?
One metallurgical complex, dated to 765 BC, iron ore was smelted in furnaces measuring a meter wide. The molten slag was drained through conduits to pits, where it formed blocks weighing up to 43-47 kg. The operating temperatures are estimated to have varied between 1,155 and 1,450 degrees C (Holl, 2009). Some radiocarbon dates for iron smelting in this region go back to 2000 BC (Eze-Uzomaka, 2009). Yoruba land don't have any artifacts that equal Ibos in archeological radiocarbon test.
When you hear the truth,acknowledge it ,then you are set free.
Proudly Odua descendant
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by 0balufonlll: 7:50am On Aug 24, 2018|
If you had read the PDF file in that link I posted you would know you just embarrassed yourself with this one post.
Mr. Odua must be shook in his grave right now.
I’m looking forward to more posts from you, for amusement purposes of course.
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 8:13am On Aug 24, 2018|
0balufonlll:Which Pdf ooo oga professor?! Post again and let me see it.
Mind you, every researcher must criticise another man's work to achieve his aim.Why are you disappointing me?
Oh lord have mercy, the work of Olumide is still being used for reference. I can even post a Phd student that used it in his work on Yorubas in Cuba
Read books bro from : Philade Leo, Tariq Sawand,Geofrey Parrinder,Archeologist Omoleya , Dr. Farrow , A.C Burns,Dierk Lange , Sir Harry Johnston acount on west Africa in April 1914 etc
Sorry, bro you are the one that need to do more work not me because I am already in the field doing research... And if you so desire to halt it then wait till the right time and make sure you re a linguist .But you will be disappointed
Contrary to your opinion, my ancestors won't be disappointed in me because they were the DIVINE KINGS THAT ACKNOWLEDGED ALMIGHTY ELEDUMARE. And knew things people didnt know and knew things that are strange to a lot of people which always gave them an edge. Trust me,my research work is bigger than anyone!
Proudly omo Odua.
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by OlaoChi: 11:53am On Aug 24, 2018|
You have no knowledge. You are a fraud
No proper education, no stable job
With all this interest in history and anthropology if you had common sense you would have studied that but you didn't now you want to use Yoruba history as your meal ticket
Babanla hustle miss road, because no food for you here
I've told you, go and challenge historians and linguists in the universities since you know better than them
correct and that is exactly what has been done to place Yoruba as a local west African culture
oh now you know there is a method in matching two words to see if they are related, now you know that because I posted some English words similar to Yoruba, you should have claimed the English are Hebrews too like you tried to claim Japanese are connected to Hebrew.. Clown
In all this, you have failed in your word match up. Just like the other clown who ran away said Hebrew is Iberu in Yoruba just because it sounds alike without recourse for the meaning and etymology of both words
Two words sounding alike doesn't mean they are related, sometimes they may refer to roughly the same thing but what about the etymology?
So don't talk to me about how to match two words because you fail at that.
why aren't you into the comedy business instead of history and linguistics? History and linguistics are obviously not your thing, you're just forcing yourself and it's not making you any money
I say comedy because this is real fun here
"Mahyeem" is the proper way to write it but it is basically the same as the simplified "Mayim"
The bolded part is a pure lie, first the word "mem" is the Hebrew equivalent of 'M' as in the alphabet M in Latin and other Latin derived scripts
So the word "Mahyeem" or Mayim (since you want to simplify it) has was not derived from "mem". Mem is simply what the first letter of the word is called
And Mahyeem is not plural
Which brings me a good point,
How come Hebrew has plural forms but yoruba like other Volta - Niger languages do not? Since you say Yoruba language is derived from Hebrew?
The spoken language in Israel during Jesus Christ time were three languages(Aramaic Roman-Greek) after the extinction of original Hebrew language. . How many times do you even know Israel was occupied by other powerful kingdoms after the fall of ancient Israel? Lord have mercy on this young man and his school of thought .So you didnt know the Hellenistic revolt? , This was what led to the influence of Roman- Greek that became the spoken after the rest of Israel were taken as slaves.
Irrelevant. You like ranting and going off topic
This is also irrelevant because early hominids were neither Yoruba nor Hebrew
These identities started long after humans(Homo sapiens) had established settlements and began to build civilizations.
You are just embarrassing yourself and exposing your idiocy because it makes no sense to start talking about Homo Heidelbergensis and Denisovan etc who existed over 200 thousand years ago when we are talking about Hebrews. Hebrews are not the first human civilization and the entire human race doesn't owe Hebrew anything so why try to attach Hebrews to early hominids? Are you mad or something? This hebrew worshiping has gone too far
so Hebrew influenced English language to the extent that Iron, wore(past of wear), concern, for, our, inner, and in, all entered the English lexicon?
Yet none of these words match Hebrew words of the same meaning
OK. Your logic turns the world over
You are a fraud. Jobless guy.
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by OlaoChi: 11:59am On Aug 24, 2018|
I added some more English - Yoruba words above
Brother, English is our ancestral language o
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by OlaoChi: 12:06pm On Aug 24, 2018|
He read it. I have told him before that nobody takes Olumide Lucas seriously, he still keeps referencing him
How does someone who is not involved in Yoruba traditions or egyptology write a book connecting Yoruba traditions to Egyptology
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by absoluteSuccess: 1:45pm On Aug 24, 2018|
There are things that I want to call your attention to, bro Olu, as it would be useful to you now or later.
there are people with the 'Jurasic Park' mentality to Yoruba history. To them, our history must be reconstructed in the same way scientists reconstructed the life of the dinosaurs before their extinction. But the point is, who saw the dinosaur when it was alive?
Why do men feel comfortable that that's the way a dinosaur look? Because most have conformed to the 'infallible claims of science'. But, have you ever seen the dinosaur? No, but you believe it exited. Have you ever see leviathan? No, what of dragon?
Education is also like religion, it has its dogma, you are meant to believe what you can't see, but the 'educated' person buys it without question once it comes wrapped in science. The conformists establish the idea as the fact of creation.
Science has its facts, fictions, myths and theories, some without proofs just yet. But some people's reality revolve around these fiction, myths etc as facts as long as its scientific postulation. Now how developed is archaeology in this country?
Some Yoruba folks are waiting for archaeologists to come and tell them about the history of Yoruba. Well, lets wait for the white man inasmuch as we have conformed to their standards. But however long it takes, they will definitely come to us.
And when they do, what would they be talking about? fossils. So, lets wait for the fossils that will unlock the Yoruba history to be dug out from the deep. Then the conformists would laugh at last from excitement at final blow on pseudo-history as they call it.
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 7:55pm On Aug 24, 2018|
Wisdom is rarely scarce but to whom is given, they are called divine. I respect you as an Obalufon descendant because you are chosen amongst the godmen.
On what you inferred, do I have knowledge on but I chose to expose the educated illiterate who have not done anything but self opinion to justify their cases. A shame on them because all lettered people who stumbled on this,will definitely know who is informing on the the reality and truth via evidence.
Whoever quote me amongst them,I'll not reply anymore because they are knowledged people but dehydrated .Seriously, I don't have problem with criticism but do it with radiocarbon evidence, researched refetenced eork or archaeological evidence to disprove me opinion.
The well studious hearts aren't too scarce to know while foolish people litters everywhere,which make them fizzle out easily. When I read your statement on your meeting with a senior writer on your post about your book,then I saw the depth and how far you have gone to do the right thing on showcasing the wealth of Yorubas as a great people because publication of book isn't easy as it seems.Good work bro,kudos.
Bro,there is something I desire to draw your attention toward, which is on archeological and hieroglyphs finding which isn't anybody's fault but Yorubas because they discouraged the western researchers with their inconsistencies on oral information which made many western historians withdrew their funding. Trust me ,wrong people wrote many things and contradicted themselves.
Today, few people thought Olumide Lucas was wrong because of criticism by less than 10s out 100s scholars. Funny enough, he was right about the evidence of ancient Egyptian lexicon present in Yoruba's, which was buttressed by an African writer from francophone nation known as Philade Leo and discovery by ‘ Abarim publication' etc. I had to mention this because of these students who want to learn from me by force and fire
Let me share a Roman word that is found in Yoruba land through migration from Egypt.
Roman : Sangi
Meaning: bleeding( blood)
Itsekiri-Yoruba : Sangi
Dead heads won't understand because few ones are dead heads and in minority.
On a final note, I will continue to post the useful information for whoever cares to see the non aboriginal status of Odua squad as I have proven with scholarly reference and 21st century evidence
Respect to you bro
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by absoluteSuccess: 8:40pm On Aug 24, 2018|
Thanks very much for your kind words and vivid encouragements.
But I'll really appreciate something very small from you
You know how to interpret Yoruba terms, then what does OGBOMOSHO means as a Yoruba enthusiast?
My other question is, are you Yoruba?
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by 0balufonlll: 9:56pm On Aug 24, 2018|
In case the screenshots are not very clear, here’s a link to the file in my dropbox, you may DL for perusal and/or keeps if you’d like: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gt28v1pr3j3dw5p/180004.pdf?dl=0
You speak of research but you do not seem to know the basics of it.
- There is a difference between writing a book & having it cited as an authority vs writing a book & having it cited to set up an angle of probation/attack. Your Olumide’s work falls in the lattet category, sorry. Works that are with weak basis usually end up in there. Heck the early chapters of Samuel Johnson’s work that focused on Ife & Oyo tradition of origin suffers this same fate. So getting cited isn’t the koko but what you are being cited for. In scholarly circles, when you are cited to be floored then that work is worthless.
- Anybody can list names of authors as you have but it is half stepping if names of their works under focus are not mentioned. Please, provide each work for the scholars you want us to read. I will & give you feedback. Reading is my job.
- Since you didn’t see the link to the PDF file I shared, I wiill post screenshots of the work. He is a Professor of Linguistic & Anthropology. Here’s the author’s short biography before written by a
Roger Williams Wescott graduated summa cum laude and first in his class from Princeton University. After receiving his Ph.D. in Linguistics there in 1948, he held a Rhodes Scholarship at Oxford. He founded and directed the African Language Program at Michigan State University and founded and chaired the Anthropology Department at Drew University. Dr. Wescott served as President of the Linguistic Association of Canada and the United States, President of the International Society for the Comparative Study of Civilizations, and Vice-President of the Association for the Study of Language in Prehistory, as well as co-editor of the journals Futurics, Forum Linguisticum, and Mother Tongue. His own publications include The Divine Animal: an Exploration of Human Potentiality and Predicting the Past: an Exploration of Myth, Science, and Prehistory.
So you know this is a foremost linguist who has a god grasp of the area much more than Olumide Lucas, you & every other Afro Asiatic fantasy conjourer on NL.
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by 0balufonlll: 10:03pm On Aug 24, 2018|
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by 0balufonlll: 10:09pm On Aug 24, 2018|
I hope you’ll notice the adjectives the professor used in qualifying your man Lucas & his work. You do know you are doing the same thing Lucas did & the same adjectives apply to you/your work & others foraging into Linguistics untrained?
I leave you now.
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by 0balufonlll: 10:20pm On Aug 24, 2018|
Bro, I am guessing the Ooni’s throne/Yoruba thrones derived from throne of England o. Our connection with English from our word similarities strong o.
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by 0balufonlll: 10:31pm On Aug 24, 2018|
I anticipated he might claim not to have read it & already planned to send screenshots. His data on Hebrew language relies heavily on things he sleuthed from web. Old Hebrew is not a pop language today & this requires having Key Informats, Participatory Observations & years of studying old Hebrew material & culture in their lands - he has to prove his direct knowledge of old Hebrew language for him to be considered a serious person.
Also he hasn’t conducted a study to ascertain the original Yoruba language in ancient times. Rather he is using modern Yoruba that has been battered by modernity & barrage of borrowed imwords. If he is a serious person he’ll start this project in his native dialect. That way, his lack of direct knowledge in Hebrew will be made up for with his direct knowledge in his native dialect & that may just set the ball rolling for him as a non-trained linguist making effort. In fact, rather than using Crowther’s modern Yoruba, he could just find his supposedly Hebrew related Yoruba words across the numerous Yoruba dialects. That way, his mastery of dialect across Yoruba nation will make up for his pseudo knowledge in Hebrew.
Arabs & Europeans did serious damage to Yoruba that we are now looking for our origins in a land & culture much younger to ours.
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by absoluteSuccess: 11:31pm On Aug 24, 2018|
The bolded tho. I believe the ancestors have their ways of choosing us to do their bid and fortifying us with the keen spirit to find resources to that end. I havent confirm my link with Obalufon, which Crowther define as the God of peace. I know you are referring to the spirit of prophecy in the song I once shared about the disciples of Oduduwa, in the Sheba thread. Its the prophecy of our ancestors, and it will come to pass at the fullness of time.
We have about three or four Igas (homestead or quarters) at Isale Ado, namely Itako, Ilaje, Isolo, Ileba: they are about one of the earliest places in Yorubaland. Ilaje are the custodians of Oduduwa Temple, of which Ado is famed in the 19th century.
Albeit, I'm rather from Iga-Isolo, we are affiliated to Ileba, (the land of Eber, which is the root word for Hebrew) and our lineage are the
'Owun-Olowonrin' meaning 'the custodians of 'the tradition of migration'. 'Owun' in Awori dialect is 'awon', which in Yoruba implies 'people' and Olowonrin 'handlers of the migrants'. Therefore, its the house of the handlers of Yoruba migration tradition.
Owonrin did feature in Ifa copus, and it is derived from ancient Yoruba migration tradition. It is also the traditional name for Lagos Island, Awonrin, which is clearer to decipher as 'awon-orin' meaning those that migrated. Till date, the Egun refers to Lagos as 'Ahonrin' which is yet a corruption of the word Awonrin.
Omo Eleba Ori, scion of one pertaining to Eba the Seer,
Omo Ori Onoja Osan, scion of the Seer, merchant of daylight.
Stay bless bro.
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 10:10am On Aug 25, 2018|
0balufonlll:I know about this criticism and slight flaws in comparison of certain error about Olumide's researched work. And as usual, it can't be taken away from his claimed Origin of Yoruba as Egyptians because, some Yoruba had knowledge of this. Funny enough Yoruba are groups of people of different ancestry that became unified. This is the bitter truth and Odua squad are the majority , which many shy away from this truth.Do you even think the Arabic lexicon found in Yoruba land were as a result of Islam? ! You really need to get grasp of books and visit places to see the bitter truth,staring at you. Have you forgotten Arabs are part of Yoruba too? Kindly go to Ilorin,Kuwo etc. Like I had said, it is greater than you or I. What is required of you, is to contribute your quota via research.
Using Linguistic as a deterrent to Dr. Olumide's researched work showed exactly where Africans lacked the pedigree to understanding the world at large. How many among the western researchers were linguists in 1800 century that begun to group African languages indescriminately ? Intead of more devotion by other researchers to do more on this work for criticism and more finding,on the possibilities of migrants status of many yorubas through the eyes of Olumide's work in the 1940s that the man saw what, not many of his contemporaries saw except the Western Researchers.
Many western researchers said these, even , Dierk Lange said this in his book in recent past . What a people ! in Yoruba land.
Funny enough there is no account to showed any of the so called great men of the cosmopolitan ILEIFE in the ancient time had known ancestors and how they were born . Perhaps you know them? Kindly share and don't say it is classified as Àwo... :There are inconsequential perspective that keep trying to show as a support for your defense. Even Sussan Blier said my own ancestors worshipped ‘sungod'.Is this not enough for you to be provoked in your spirit? I guess you don't understand and can't. Bro, kindly go into research work to write from your own belief if you can.
On a final note,whatever I chose to work on is solely divine because you arent contending with me or I against you. Trust me, it is on a futile mission.
This is my world......
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by 0balufonlll: 1:46pm On Aug 25, 2018|
Loooooooooool wow! What school did you go to?
- The Professor highlighted major technical flaws, a lot of them in the work grouped in three parts & you call them ‘slight’?
- You keep talking about books & you haven’t cited one work. Not one. How many books have you read, list 10. No, I’ll make it easy 5. I’ll wait.
- I need to travel? Damn, abeg where have you been? Let us begin from there. Nairaland people nor go kill me.
- Arabs are part of Yoruba too? Jesu! Why do you keep exposing yourself as a poorly read person, my brother, why? While Arabs formed part of palace courts in Northern Emirates, they were itinerant preachers in Oyo. At a particular point, they were rounded up & killed. Read Clapperton’s journal. Ilorin & Kuwo took Islam/Arab culture later. 500 years back, Islam was in Iwo & Arabs were absent. Arabs did not begin to move down here until after Ilorin Jihad had succeded.
- What school did you go to again? ‘Using linguistic as a deterrent’ wow. You obviously failed to see that your Lucas crossed over into linguistic and has to be dealt with in linguistic. So your man’s work should be given a pass? Wow, Naija universities sha. . So to you technicalities & methodologies of every field should be ignored & the formula for solving a math equation should not matter as long as the answer is correct, right?
- Uncle, even 4 people from like 4 generations back & further can hardly trace their trees & siblings. So, using your logic, they came from Middle East too? . Are you like a non-Yoruba who is on a mission to ruin Yoruba ancestral records or what?
- If you were indeed on a divine Yoruba mission, you would know Awo is an essential part of Yoruba history & language. You should join one in your hometown, it will expose you to a lot of things.
Finally, if at the end of your entire work someone asks you about the methodology you used to guide you through, what would you say?
Don’t forget to list the books.
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 5:15pm On Aug 25, 2018|
0balufonlll:So,the ‘slight ', I used brought all this your opinion? ...Oh k oo.Hold steadfast to your views with non beyond Odua and Obatala's lifetime in cosmopolitan ILEIFE during their time.
Why ask for books to be cited by me? I don't think I have such time anymore because you are basically not widely read. Trust me ,you aren't. But know it ,that YOU HAVE NO ANSWER TO ANY of the questions on Obatala's ancestors or Odua's. This should be your concern.
So, you don't know that Ilorin was a cosmopolitan too? . It is really disheartening reading this from the professor of yoruba history himself ,about palace servants that usurped Afonja authority... Get book on Ilorin to feed your eyes . In the meantime, Ilorin community became culturally multifarious following the influx of a multiplicity of other cultural and sub-cultural groups so much that by the time civil strife occurred between Afonja and Shehu Alimi`s Jama`a about 1807 or thereabout, the combined population of the Jama`a in Gambari, Fulani and Okesuna areas who were mainly non-Yorubas had greatly exceeded that of the Kakanfo`s compatriots who were confined to Idi-ape and its environs, including Dada.
It is incontrovertible, for instance, that at the time of Shehu alimi`s arrival in Ilorin, the area now called Alanamu and Ajikobi wards were sparsely inhabited. The areas were opened up later for settlement by some Yoruba members of the retinue which accompanied Shehu Alimi to Ilorin under the leadership of Usman and Se`eni who afterwards became Balogun Ajikobi and Balogun Alanamu respectively.
It was a massive influx of people of assorted cultural background, after Islamic governance had been firmly established, that conditioned the demographic size, composition and texture of Ilorin. With the resultant ethnic and cultural heterogeneity, Islam became the common denominator and the only unifying factor. It facilitated inter-mingling, socialization and integration among the various peoples.
Consequently, a unique Islamic culture, into which the diverse cultures melted, emerged. However, the infectious Yoruba language became the lingua franca.
The consequent submergence of all other languages into Yoruba gives an illusory impression of monolithic culture by obscuring the cultural pluralism inherent in the Emirate, particularly in Ilorin, where a substantial proportion of the indigenous population is anthropologically non-Yoruba.
For example, the following non-Yoruba families randomly sampled in the seemingly Yoruba-dominated “Oke Imole” no longer bear their original non-Yoruba identities. This illustrates the depth of cultural assimilation that has occurred and gives a deceptive impression of the ethno-cultural complexity of Ilorin.
The core families in Agbaji namely; Ile Saura, Ile Aburo, Ile Baba Sa`are, Ile Agoro and Ile Imam Agbaji were originally Sudanese Arabs from a town called Ar-Baji on the Blue Nile. So also were the ancestral parents of the people of Ile Ara-Agbaji at Masingba, Oke Imole. Ile Hejebu, Ile Singini, Ile Oloko, Ile Oniko, Ile Ada-Ara and Ile Majo are extensions of the core families in Agbaji.
Members of Ile Ibrahim Bature at Oke-Apomu are Arabs by origin. They migrated to Ilorin from Agades from Niger Republic. The Ojibara family in the same area is of Fulani descent. They initially sojourned in Borno before they migrated to Ilorin finally.
Deal with the truth! Odua was a migrant as well as many others.
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by 0balufonlll: 10:49am On Aug 26, 2018|
I will hold on to non-Hebrew origin of Yoruba. This is the contention here. And I will hold on the classification of Yoruba language done by scholars & not the one done by you.
Why ask for books to be cited by? I don't think I have such time anymore because you are basically not widely read. Trust me ,you aren't. But know it ,that YOU HAVE NO ANSWER TO ANY of the questions on Obatala's ancestors or Odua's. This should be your concern.
Simply put, you nor get books.
So, you don't know that Ilorin was a cosmopolitan too? . It is really disheartening reading this from the professor of yoruba history himself ,about palace servants that usurped Afonja authority... Get book on Ilorin to feed your eyes . In the meantime, Ilorin community became culturally multifarious following the influx of a multiplicity of other cultural and sub-cultural groups so much that by the time civil strife occurred between Afonja and Shehu Alimi`s Jama`a about 1807 or thereabout, the combined population of the Jama`a in Gambari, Fulani and Okesuna areas who were mainly non-Yorubas had greatly exceeded that of the Kakanfo`s compatriots who were confined to Idi-ape and its environs, including Dada. It is incontrovertible, for instance, that at the time of Shehu alimi`s arrival in Ilorin, the area now called Alanamu and Ajikobi wards were sparsely inhabited. The areas were opened up later for settlement by some Yoruba members of the retinue which accompanied Shehu Alimi to Ilorin under the leadership of Usman and Se`eni who afterwards became Balogun Ajikobi and Balogun Alanamu respectively. It was a massive influx of people of assorted cultural background, after Islamic governance had been firmly established, that conditioned the demographic size, composition and texture of Ilorin. With the resultant ethnic and cultural heterogeneity, Islam became the common denominator and the only unifying factor. It facilitated inter-mingling, socialization and integration among the various peoples. Consequently, a unique Islamic culture, into which the diverse cultures melted, emerged. However, the infectious Yoruba language became the lingua franca. The consequent submergence of all other languages into Yoruba gives an illusory impression of monolithic culture by obscuring the cultural pluralism inherent in the Emirate, particularly in Ilorin, where a substantial proportion of the indigenous population is anthropologically non-Yoruba. For example, the following non-Yoruba families randomly sampled in the seemingly Yoruba-dominated “Oke Imole” no longer bear their original non-Yoruba identities. This illustrates the depth of cultural assimilation that has occurred and gives a deceptive impression of the ethno-cultural complexity of Ilorin. The core families in Agbaji namely; Ile Saura, Ile Aburo, Ile Baba Sa`are, Ile Agoro and Ile Imam Agbaji were originally Sudanese Arabs from a town called Ar-Baji on the Blue Nile. So also were the ancestral parents of the people of Ile Ara-Agbaji at Masingba, Oke Imole. Ile Hejebu, Ile Singini, Ile Oloko, Ile Oniko, Ile Ada-Ara and Ile Majo are extensions of the core families in Agbaji.
Smh, so the Ilorin example is your yardstick for proof of migration? . Do you know what anachronism means? You want to compare migration of thousands of centuries back when there were no routes, wheel hasn’t been invented and animals have not been tamed for transportation to the migration of couple centuries ago when routes have been mapped, animals had been tamed, use of wheel had gotten to Africa and so many factors? Wow.
You rely more on your imagination than technicalities set out my academic authorities. Like I said, you do not care about a math formulae as long as you arrive at the answer.
Like I previously asked, what is your methodoly? E be like your own style na ‘wuru wuru to the answer o’.
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by kayfra: 12:00pm On Aug 26, 2018|
This r*tarded thread is based on the premise that languages are pretty ancient, when it's one of the more recent changes to a group of people. A group could change their language over 3-4 generations. So all the loose association with Israel is comical
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 2:36pm On Aug 26, 2018|
Poorly studied aren't so scarce to know but always regurgitating over frivilous issue ,when the Western scholars are already reconstructing the ancient time by deciphering hieroglyphs , pictographs ,cuneiform,etc of to connect to the past,which was the basis for ancient form of documenting information and writing
Pity can't pity self because pity don't understand what pity stands to benefit when pitied...
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by absoluteSuccess: 3:24pm On Aug 26, 2018|
There are concepts within the Yoruba language that we have not really decipher, and may be beyond the grasp of people without hold on Yoruba words and their interpretations. This is gold mine of time tested insights and secret, or historical codes for people versed in the deep knowledge of terms and application in Yoruba intellectual culture.
Contexts and Contents in Yoruba Language
Earlier on this thread, (my last post precisely) I did referenced my lineage's 'oriki', which is a concept in Yoruba intellectual culture. Let's say someone invented the oriki that became a fad at one time or the other, such a person is the original poet and a fad-inventor. The same poet was a wordsmith and a traditional historian conceptualizing Yoruba history of his era.
Who Is A Wordsmith?
A wordsmith is someone who coin a word that becomes part and parcel of syllables, lexis and structure of a language known to a culture. For instance, our wordsmith of old coined the term 'oriki'-which compresses the history and social attainment of the patriarchs of old to serve as 'memorial' for the incoming generation of their people. Such is the context that inform the concept.
What forms the content of oriki? Social attainments, glimpse of history, peculiarity of icon or historical character are the favorites of the traditional composers of oriki. They left behind vivid pictures for the household that if ponder upon will definitely give a glimpse of political or social history of the particular household in question.
Once upon a time, on my way to the library, I visited a restaurant to have my lunch. I saw a souvenir, a calendar printed for the burial ceremony of an old man. On it is the oriki of the man in question. Although all other lines were lost on me, but one line stood out and caught my attention, 'omo akaimeye irawo'. This means 'son of one who count the innumerable stars'.
Of What Significance Is Oriki?
Oriki indeed is one of the contents preserved in Yoruba language and one of the precepts of Yoruba intellectual culture. I still recites my ancestral oriki each time my niece visits me. Well one pastor was telling me I'm invoking ancestral spirit on my niece, I told him, my ancestors are good people, their spirit never haunt me. Its unnecessary to destroy everything we don't understand.
Oriki is an example of a context in Yoruba language. The verses that make up each householders' oriki is the content. Another context in Yoruba cultural tradition is Yoruba intellectual culture. In harmony, oriki is one of the subsets of Yoruba Intellectual Culture. Thus in my book, Yoruba Glorious Secrets, I did a chapter on Yoruba Intellectual Culture. But not on Oriki though.
It is noteworthy that names of cities were equally coined by great wordsmiths of the ancient Yorubas who have great knowledge of the history of their people. There is no city, town or village in Yorubaland without a thought invoking name. Lets take Ogbomosho for instance. Though, I never lived in the 500BC (?) that this city was founded but the Yoruba wordsmiths did.
Coding Of Historical Words
The duty of the wordsmith is to 'encode' a word in cryptic form. As a student of Yoruba intellectual culture, a would-be Yoruba wordsmith must be equally versed in both aspect of content - concept appreciation and context - consent decryption. I choose Ogbomosho because we've already talked about it earlier. The wordsmiths of old did have dexterity of word usage.
From the story, Soun Ogunlola beheaded Elemosho, so he was nicknamed Ogbori-Elemosho. When you consider the name Ogbomosho for instance, you'll see the signature that confirms this name as historical piece and not myth. The fact is that the city name is a contraption of two words: Ogbori and Elemosho, or put more aptly Ogbo[ri] and [Ele]mosho.
Thus from prefix and suffix, a name was coined by the wordsmith. There is no crime in getting to know those that encode Yoruba names and terminologies for different individuals, concepts and things, names that makes us wiser. We must therefore appreciate that within our culture in certain remote time, great wordsmiths once flourished and had beautify our language with meaningful terms and ideology.
happy weekend, big family.
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 8:47pm On Aug 27, 2018|
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 9:10pm On Aug 27, 2018|
absoluteSuccess:I actually did a slight verification of the advent of the western world oriki(genealogy).The western world surpased yorubas method which is basically on oral . While the missing aspect in the Oral Yoruba's oriki is the possibility of the ‘gap' in between the panegyric of the Yoruba ancestors which actually made it difficult to be able to pegged the ancestors of yoruba's history that predate the civil wars that took place in the time of Olofin Adimula and Obatal a,which a renowned researcher, Sussan Blier muddled up with the time of Oranmiyan and Obalufon Alayemore
which the date is uncertain because there is no written record of it,and the hieroglyphic of Oranmiyan has not been able to be uncoded. In fact, nisai claimed there more than four of such hieroglyphs.
A lot really need be done becuase Europeans researchers identify the class of genealogy as , oral tradition; the second, that in which certain pedigrees were committed to writing. The third stage comprises the period from approximately 1500 in western Europe and later in the English-speaking world, during which the whole basis of genealogy widened to such an extent that it is now possible for the majority of people in western Europe to trace their ancestry.Unfortunately Oral tradition and biblical sources. In the early days of civilization, before written records were made, oral traditions were necessarily important but in modern times,there are a lot that make genealogy more robust ,especially with the scientific angle. Without the art of writing, reliance must be placed on memory. And this placed reliance on memory is the reason for distortion and foul play many times.
I sincerely hope a lot will be done to understating the meaning of the orikis and the interpretation because I have seen so many words in many orikis even IFA corpus that its descriptive meaning is lost to the whirlwind.
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by absoluteSuccess: 10:10pm On Aug 27, 2018|
I intended putting the last post and this one together but when I was making the composition, it was bedtime already, and have to respect my better-half. If you are married, may the best of the blessings in marriage be your portion, if about to, may you finding the most pleasing and endowed princess of your people, good sire.
As to your question, yes there is connection: there is an harmony in what the pedigree says and what Yoruba tradition consent with. The Awori were said to be 'omo oloko nile Iseri'. So the tradition is 'kafeso gunle si Iseri imole'. Don't forget, Iseri is Yoruba for ancient Israel. Then Awori as the group name implies that the land was discovered by the ancestors explorers who first came to inquire or survey the land.
These explorers came through the sea, hence the Awori were called omo iwaju oloko tii sowo, implying that money was used to bankroll the exploration of Yorubaland by the ancestors of old. Perhaps the ancient Yoruba navy were well remunerated. Then it follows that Alaje (Oduduwa) was a rich woman who paid for the exploration, she and her contemporaries were onoja: meaning, merchants.
Yorubaland was often refers to as Oja in ancient traditions. The term Aye l'oja orun nile is reminiscence of Yoruba migration from her origin to Yorubaland.
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 9:50am On Aug 28, 2018|
absoluteSuccess:Good to know that you recognised that having a better half is important in every man's life. I admire your gut and the respect you shower on your madam. Albeit, Orísà jé n pèe mèjí obínrín o jé but a good wife is the one that sustains her home with her hard work, obedient to her husband and almighty God. Indeed peace reside with those who are the chosen ones. And to your question on my part, I am. Àmó o àtí kí ojè sí ba'oloshá lówó o wà kú bàbà éní tí nbó.
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