Deep Sight:

Really? And for how many centuries were corrupt Lords and Barons specially protected by the Crown in England?

UP TILL THIS DAY, the United States stands morally complicit in reprehensible blood-for-oil international heists and the persons responsible boldly strut the corridors of power.

What you are seeking is a delusion: IT HAS NEVER BEEN ACHEIVED ANYWHERE IN HISTORY BEFORE.

And you comically imagine that Nigeria would be the first to acheive it. Wise up.

I am sorry but I am having a seriously hard time CONNECTING the above with

a) Any of my retorts on this issue so far

b) THIS particular topic - even context

May I again ask that you read ALL what a person posts, PROCESS the information obtained before you respond.

No justice, all the bad guys steal and are allowed to enjoy the money. They breed children who take after them and the samsaric cycle continues. There is a geometric increase in political office seekers!!!


Selective justice, some of the bad guys on the opposite camp are procecuted for their crime, it financially and morally affects their families, might probably truncate this trend in their upsprings and at least reduces the number of bad guys we have to live with

I think selective justice far outshines no justice

Dalby:

Selective justice, some of the bad guys on the opposite camp are procecuted for their crime, it financially and morally affects their families, might probably truncate this trend in their upsprings and at least reduces the number of bad guys we have to live with

I think selective justice far outshines no justice

Given that we have had over 20 years to collect data on this, can you please give us examples of some of the families that you know were affected in said way?

@Kobojunkie,

First of all we have not had 20 years of selective justice, its been a more recent event.

What selective justice breeds is sycophancy, and someone asks why all Nigerian politicians are sycophants and are tagged " any government in power". I condemn the persecution of Ibori, Ogbulafor (for an alleged crime he committed way back in 2003), the persecution of Ribadu, El-Rufai and even Bode George, while the likes of Odili, Sani Yerima, Alao Akala, Tony Anneni, are walking free enjoying their loot.

I dont think any of those in blue above will agree with you. With all the money ibori has stolen, I do not think living in recent times have been a joy ride for him.

Alams of bayelsa some time ago was stripped to his pants of all he had stolen, by the state. A former IG of police was reduced to an ex-con and the list goes on.

Be rest assured that once anyone is convicted by the courts, s/he cannot hold political office for life. I think that gives us one less crook to think about, won't you say

The system is slow, but we will get there

As far as the innocent is not being convicted its fine with me.

@kobojunkie
Like I said earlier, I say again: I get your point. We have a rule of law, let us stick by it. Fine. But allow me to digress a little bit.

Kwara State has been governed by about how many generations of one family for how long now? And yet does the trend seem to change? Nigeria has been ruled by people of the same caucus since 1960. True or false? Does that look special to you? Cos I remember you stating that we pretend that our situation isn't peculiar. I wish to ask for examples too where this trend has ever been either in the so called developed world or developing. One fact I know is that these WOLVES aren't ready to vacate. In the past decade, have you ever heard of a political office holder being arrested let alone tried in court? No! You call it selective justice. I agree. But isn't it better than having nothing being done like it has been in the past years? You clamour for the implementation of the rule of law. That's fine. But who wants to implement that law? These same wolves? When they'll be the first to be found guilty? They'll not even try. The only suggestion I feel you could give is to totally and miraculously remove these people from power or wait till their selective justice catch up with they themselves. Unless you ask for a revolution which I feel is not in the nation's best interests in order to avert a war. Do you get my point?

Dalby:

@Kobojunkie,
First of all we have not had 20 years of selective justice, its been a more recent event

I am sorry but you are wrong. We have had this SELECTIVE justice system for well over 20 years now. I am sure people will remember how Buhari regime used this system to silence those who were in its way. Babangida used it so well that to this day, it shocks me that the man still walks free and in charge in that country. I do not have to tell you how Abacha, Obasanjo, and yar adua definitely did go after those who stood against their agenda in anyway. The current man in Aso Rock already started playing his hand the very first week he was made acting president and is likely just beginning.

Dalby:

I dont think any of those in blue above will agree with you. With all the money ibori has stolen, I do not think living in recent times have been a joy ride for him.

Is Justice ABOUT joy? Ibori is on the run now, but I think what should matter more to Nigerian people is IF we will get justice  at the end of it all.

Dalby:

Alams of bayelsa some time ago was stripped to his pants of all he had stolen, by the state. A former IG of police was reduced to an ex-con and the list goes on.

Alams case is one of sheer stupidity on his part. He skipped bail in the UK and definitely set himself up for what he got. However, your claim that he was stripped of ALL he had stolen, I am not sure of. By the way, how much time did he sped in Jail after all he did? Do you know where he is now?

Dalby:

Be rest assured that once anyone is convicted by the courts, s/he cannot hold political office for life. I think that gives us one less crook to think about, won't you say
The system is slow, but we will get there . As far as the innocent is not being convicted its fine with me.

Are all the crooks ruining the country today just the politicians? I do not think so. 

What we have, in my opinion, is NOT a system that is SLOW. . . slow implies work is actually being done to make sure ALL that break the law are brought to justice, but I think we have accepted at this point that that is not the case in Nigeria. A Selective system does not work to ensure RULE of LAW is applied in ALL cases. . . Selective implies that rule of law if applied when it is convenient and that is what we have in Nigeria. Even the installation of Jonathan as Acting President was against RULE of LAW, but that was conveniently ignored even by the people.

Kobojunkie:

I am sorry but you are wrong. We have had this SELECTIVE justice system for well over 20 years now. I am sure people will remember how Buhari regime used this system to silence those who were in its way. Babangida used it so well that to this day, it shocks me that the man still walks free and in charge in that country. I do not have to tell you how Abacha, Obasanjo, and yar adua definitely did go after those who stood against their agenda in anyway. The current man in Aso Rock already started playing his hand the very first week he was made acting president and is likely just beginning.

Is Justice ABOUT joy? Ibori is on the run now, but I think what should matter more to Nigerian people is IF we will get justice  at the end of it all.
Alams case is one of sheer stupidity on his part. He skipped bail in the UK and definitely set himself up for what he got. However, your claim that he was stripped of ALL he had stolen, I am not sure of. By the way, how much time did he sped in Jail after all he did? Do you know where he is now?
Are all the crooks ruining the country today just the politicians? I do not think so. 

What we have, in my opinion, is NOT a system that is SLOW. . . slow implies work is actually being done to make sure ALL that break the law are brought to justice, but I think we have accepted at this point that that is not the case in Nigeria. A Selective system does not work to ensure RULE of LAW is applied in ALL cases. . . Selective implies that rule of law if applied when it is convenient and that is what we have in Nigeria. Even the installation of Jonathan as Acting President was against RULE of LAW, but that was conveniently ignored even by the people.

?

Please. . . the non installation of Jonathan was against the rule of Law. No offence, but, many times, it is hard to understand what you represent/stand for when you make your points!!!

ziga:

?

Please. . . the non installation of Jonathan was against the rule of Law. No offence, but, many times, it is hard to understand what you represent/stand for when you make your points!!!

Don't worry about what I STAND for here. We are talking of the the Law here, right? Yes, his installation as Acting President was against the constitution, and we majorly chose to ignore that. We seem to ENCOURAGE the misuse when it works for us, rather than demand for rule of law all the times and that is part of the reason why we are where we are today.

By the way, the ILLEGAL way is never really the ONLY way! There is a right way for most everything.

macnuel:

You call it selective justice. I agree. But isn't it better than having nothing being done like it has been in the past years? You clamour for the implementation of the rule of law. That's fine. But who wants to implement that law? These same wolves? When they'll be the first to be found guilty? They'll not even try. The only suggestion I feel you could give is to totally and miraculously remove these people from power or wait till their selective justice catch up with they themselves. Unless you ask for a revolution which I feel is not in the nation's best interests in order to avert a war. Do you get my point?

Let me make this easy for you, In a democracy, who really should hold the power? Those elected by the people? Or the People?

If those elected are not doing things right, what do you think the law allows the people do? What role are the people to play in ensuring the implementation of the law in all wise? Once we start looking into our DUTIES/Responsibilities in this democracy, I am certain we will start to see why waiting for change to AUTOMAGICALLY happen is senseless. We are likely to find where the power really ought to lie, in all this.

Kobojunkie:

Don't worry about what I STAND for here. We are talking of the the Law here, right? Yes, his installation as Acting President was against the constitution, and we majorly chose to ignore that. We seem to ENCOURAGE the misuse when it works for us, rather than demand for rule of law all the times and that is part of the reason why we are where we are today.

By the way, the ILLEGAL way is never really the ONLY way! There is a right way for most everything.

Talking about law, and your statements, you are equally guilty about being selective.

It is convenient for you to speak against thee method of his installation as acting president, but you choose to ignore the illegality of not making him the acting president.

Anyway, we are all entitled to our opinions, because most of them are only opinions.

Peace.

ziga:

Talking about law, and your statements, you are equally guilty about being selective.

It is convenient for you to speak against thee method of his installation as acting president, but you choose to ignore the illegality of not making him the acting president.

Where exactly do you have me doing this? Please learn to set aside sentiments when debating issues, especially those which pertain to the law. I really hate that you want to now accuse me of doing what I never did, what NO ONE can prove I have ever done on this issue, just because you fear I am not ON YOUR SIDE in this.
This CHOOSING SIDES mentality will need to be dealt with if we are ever to move from where we are today to better. Rather than pitching your tent with PERSONALITIES, why not pitch it instead on the side of the law, no matter what?

ziga:

Anyway, we are all entitled to our opinions, because most of them are only opinions.
Peace.

True, we are entitled to our opinions but note there is a difference between an opinion and an accusation.

Kobojunkie:

Let me make this easy for you, In a democracy, who really should hold the power? Those elected by the people? Or the People?

If those elected are not doing things right, what do you think the law allows the people do? What role are the people to play in ensuring the implementation of the law in all wise? Once we start looking into our DUTIES/Responsibilities in this democracy, I am certain we will start to see why waiting for change to AUTOMAGICALLY happen is senseless. We are likely to find where the power really ought to lie, in all this.

excuse me please. You just automatically shelved my question as against my suggestion. I'm practically ignorant of what the constitution says about our role when things don't go the normal way. WHAT IS THAT ROLE? I don't want you to see it as if you're the only one on this thread saying differently. But the fact needs to be placed on tables and we sort out the truth from the facts. I'll solidly join you in your campaign for the implementation for the rule of law and justice if you can convince me that there is really one thing that can be done. I don't mind if it takes years. Change is gradual but in Nigeria, it has become the survival of the fittest. What we call democracy does not exist in Nigeria presently? But with the way things are, we are still grateful that there are CHANGES. My lady, if really you're in Nigeria and you talk this way, then you live in an entirely different region. None of us is giving up on the fact that nothing can be done but, You need to see in the light of my argument. I ask again: Do you get my point? If you do, Speak from that perspective.

Kobojunkie:

Let me make this easy for you, In a democracy, who really should hold the power? Those elected by the people? Or the People?

If those elected are not doing things right, what do you think the law allows the people do? What role are the people to play in ensuring the implementation of the law in all wise? Once we start looking into our DUTIES/Responsibilities in this democracy, I am certain we will start to see why waiting for change to AUTOMAGICALLY happen is senseless. We are likely to find where the power really ought to lie, in all this.

excuse me please. You just automatically shelved my question as against my suggestion. I'm practically ignorant of what the constitution says about our role when things don't go the normal way. WHAT IS THAT ROLE? I don't want you to see it as if you're the only one on this thread saying differently. But the fact needs to be placed on tables and we sort out the truth from the facts. I'll solidly join you in your campaign for the implementation for the rule of law and justice if you can convince me that there is really one thing that can be done. I don't mind if it takes years. Change is gradual but in Nigeria, it has become the survival of the fittest. What we call democracy does not exist in Nigeria presently? But with the way things are, we are still grateful that there are CHANGES. My lady, if really you're in Nigeria and you talk this way, then you live in an entirely different region. None of us is giving up on the fact that nothing can be done but, You need to see in the light of my argument. I ask again: Do you get my point? If you do, Speak from that perspective.

macnuel:

WHAT IS THAT ROLE? I don't want you to see it as if you're the only one on this thread saying differently. But the fact needs to be placed on tables and we sort out the truth from the facts. I'll solidly join you in your campaign for the implementation for the rule of law and justice if you can convince me that there is really one thing that can be done. I don't mind if it takes years.

The simple definition of Democracy is Government for the people, BY the people. I stress the word ‘BY’ there, as I believe that implies the people control power in a democracy. Nigeria has so many good laws in the books. . . I was shocked when I spoke to an old lawyer who explained to me that when it comes to Nigeria, we have some of the best laws already. We do not necessarily need to RE-INVENT the wheel; we only need to APPLY those rules/laws to our benefit as a people, and as a country.
When it comes to facts, I believe it is the duty of citizens to research and understand their rights in this democracy. Continuing to sit back, expecting the WOLVES to tell us what to do or do it all for us has not worked.  The so-called ‘campaign for implementation of rule of law and justice’ ought to start with individual Nigerians educating themselves on their positions and duties in our democracy.  Since Democracy is about the people holding power, it is my belief that nothing can be achieved without the peoples involvement. There are some exceptions, but we don’t get a lot of those in Nigeria.

macnuel:

Change is gradual but in Nigeria, it has become the survival of the fittest. What we call democracy does not exist in Nigeria presently? But with the way things are, we are still grateful that there are CHANGES. My lady, if really you're in Nigeria and you talk this way, then you live in an entirely different region. None of us is giving up on the fact that nothing can be done but, You need to see in the light of my argument. I ask again: Do you get my point? If you do, Speak from that perspective.

I think I get your point but still. However, I am not arguing that we cease what we have today(almost same as what we had more than 20 years ago) without at least moving on to something else. All I am in support of is the statement that Selective Justice is akin to No Justice. Yes, as always we can go on rejoicing when the WOLVES throw us a bone or two( decide to go after one of their opponents just for the heck of it). Some people are all too content with that, but at the end of the day, when you evaluate what we have, it is all too clear that we are nowhere near, where we ought to be. In fact, it is almost as if we have not even started anything at all.


I feel I need to add here that what we have is not a SLOW system but more a RIGGED Justice system, just as bad as a RIGGED election system.

Nigeria is an evolving democracy, how many continuous years have we been at democracy

We have move from a NO justice system to a SELECTIVE justice system. We will move as we evolve to a TOTALLY just system. It is a learning process

Over 6 months later, has much changed?

still working at it
We are seeing a more dynamic and democratic play forces and counter forces in the tensed political climate

Social justice in Michael walzer’s political Philosophy: concept and critique
http://www.bravoprojecthelp.com/philosophy/social-justice-in-michael-walzers-political-philosophy-concept-and-critique/